"Grow Your Business without Growing Apart" with Kelly Clements

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Welcome back, my friends, to the I was born to do this podcast. I am so excited today because we have one of our very own Joan of Arc published authors on the show with us, Kelly Clements. Welcome. How are you?

Very well, thank you. It's always good to be with you always.

And I just love that every time I see you because we do all these zoom calls together. Your face is always so bright and just the light always just like dances on your skin. You're so beautiful.

Thank you. I'll take that. Likewise. As Garen says, if you can spot it, you got it.

I love that. Well, we've had an extraordinary time together. We began working with your book in November and we created a mini book and then you went live in Genius network spoke about the mini book, and then we went and finished the full rendition. So I would love for you to one, introduce who you are in the world, what it is that you do, and then, of course, tell us the name of your book.

Yes, my name is Kelly Clements. I coach entrepreneurs and their spouses to grow the business without growing apart in their marriage. So I specialize with helping the entrepreneur grow his or her business, but also have a lot of attention and emphasis on the love relationship to make sure that the spouse or partner is growing as well. So the spouse is always included in my coaching if they choose to participate, which most of the time they do. And the name of my business is grow. The name of my book is grow your business without growing apart. Hmm.

I love it. I love it. It has been. You are one of the smartest women I know. And truly, when we were working together, it was like every single session we had when we were channeling your book, you were blowing my mind. Like, you come up with these one liners, you come up with these phrases, these thoughts that I had never heard before. And that's why I believe, and I know you believe this too. Every entrepreneur in the world needs. Needs this book. Why? Why do you feel that way? Tell me a little bit about why.

You know, I think it's. This is the premise and the foundational concept of my coaching. And the reason that I. That I specialize with entrepreneurs is because the traits that make entrepreneurs successful in business are the same traits that are really challenging in personal relationships. And so if we're driven in business, we can be controlling at home. If we're ambitious in business, out of touch at home, into personal development, it could come across as selfish. If we're great delegators, it can be lazy. So it's you Know, it's the shadow side of our strengths, and if we're not in the light, we don't understand how to work with shadows. And so it's optimist spouse that gets the flip side of what the world sees in an entrepreneurial presence. And so having been through both sides of the entrepreneurial. Having been through entrepreneurial relationships on both sides of the equation, once as the more ambitious partner in my first marriage, and then the second as the spouse who. Or not the spouse, but the partner who lost my identity and the gravitational pull of my partner and his business, I deeply relate, appreciate, and respect both people in that equation because they're both like, it's a lonely journey. Entrepreneurship is lonely. And if you think being an entrepreneur is lonely, the role of a spouse can be even lonelier. And I think couples find such relief in finding somebody who can connect to both of those juries and help bring them together.

That's what I feel like when, you know, when we say in this podcast, I was born to do this. Hearing that story. You were born to do this. Your purpose. It began with both of these experiences that you know both sides. Which allows you to meet both the spouse and the entrepreneur in their languages.

Yes.

Why else would you say, like, down to your gut, like, why were you born to do this work?

You know, I was thinking about that, and it's hard to say that I was born for this because this work was. Was born out of such trauma. You know, it was born out of a lot of mistakes, mine and others. It was born out of a lot of skin, knees. And so it's hard to say that we ever come into this life for that experience. I believe that we're here to love and shine and, and multiply and. And be in the light. And like I said, we need to be in those shadows sometimes. So it's hard to say that I came here for that much disaster in my life. But I will tell you, because when I think about what we're born for, and this is something that I help the spouses with, and so I want this to. I want this to be relatable and applicable to your audience. When people are looking for more purpose and they're looking for ways to find the thing that lights them up, often they default to. It has to be a profession. You know, I love dancing, so I'm going to be a. I'm going to become a dance instructor. I love cooking, so I'm going to. I'm going to open a catering business. And that's a great Start, but it's not always. It's not always feasible. And so when I talk about people finding their purpose of what they were born to do, I talk about the things that put instantaneously can put a lump in their throat or a tear in their eye. And for me, the first time I collided headfirst with my purpose was actually in high school. I was born and raised in a sports family, and I had this calling to do theater. None of my friends did theater, but I just wanted to be on the stage. And so I tried out for the spring musical and I, I got cast. And as I was walking on the stage, I was uncontrollably weeping. And it was because I was like, oh, my God, this is it. Like, this is what I'm here for. And so I, well, I didn't, you know, I wasn't on Broadway or got into movies or TV or anything like that. I am using my message for my audience in that way. And so when I'm speaking, I found a way to marry my innate gifts of just wanting to be on that stage or have that platform with a powerful message that is my own. And so the reason I share that is when people are like, why am I here? It doesn't have to be profession. It can be the thing that just like puts that lump in your throat and you have a hard time talking through like, that's purpose. And that's why we're here.

I love that. And I love, I love hearing how this prepped you for this now and that this is what you're here to do, because every time I hear you speak, it blows my mind. So what I want to do is dive right in. I have a lot of entrepreneurs who listen to this podcast because I love entrepreneurship. This is the thing, right? So I know as an entrepreneur, I struggled in relationship. Your content has made such a difference for me. If you could go into your heart right now and maybe pick out. Let's just start with one. But I want to do like three shifts in perspectives that you help people understand. What would you say is the first entry point? If someone has come to you, they're an entrepreneur or it's the spouse of an entrepreneur, what is the entry point that you're going to help them kind of get softer, understand something that's going to make a big difference for them.

It's so personal and it's, you know, that's, that's part of my gift is like, because I'm so in tune with it, with my content, I can, I hear the words and I know exactly which, which pain point we're going to go to. I think the one that happens most often, the, the symptom that brings them to me most often is we're, we're disconnected. My spouse has lost her. His primarily it's herself. Um, you know, she, she's, she's not lit up anymore. She doesn't understand my journey, she's starting to get resentful. Or the spouse might say like the business gets the best of him, I get the rest of him. We don't get the same priorities or attention. We're always an afterthought. And you know, of course they both insist that that's not the story and that's, that's the result of what has happened in terms of the, the fraying of how entrepreneurs are showing up in their personal relationship. And so I think the first perspective shift is really I, the, the, the framework I use for this is what's called the relationship spectrum, which is looking at an entrepreneur who I typically label as the alpha in the relationship. They're the ones that have the stronger personality, tend to be more self preserving, tend to be more enrolling others in their vision which to the spouse can feel like it's my way or the highway. And the spouse, if, you know, if alpha, if entrepreneur is alpha, that would put the spouse on the beta spectrum which is the yielder, the accommodator, the obliger. And when both of those people take their strengths too far, they go from being in a really healthy synergy to actually becoming polarized where the alpha will take his leadership way too far and become dictatorial and the spouse will take her support way too far and become self sacrificial. And now we have a recipe for disaster. And I call that, that distance between unhealthy Alpha and unhealthy beta is actually becomes the ambition gap because the entrepreneur can get so focused on let's go, I, I know how to do this. I'm smart, I'm capable, I'm fast. Let's go, let's go, let'. And the spouse can become so depleted, she shuts down, she's exhausted. I'd rather keep the pace than fight about this. And one decision at a time, she slides down that spectrum and soon she gets to the point of total exhaustion. And that's normally when they come to me like Kelly, I don't even wanna fight about this anymore. I don't even care. I just need to get through this. And so their, their souls are begging for freedom. And expression. Their logical mind can't find a way. And so it's recalibrating communication patterns to make room for both of them. That's often the deep work that we need to do so that we can get some other strategies online as well that. That help bring them together and get them back to the place of intimacy and deep connection that they're. That they're both looking for.

I just feel so, so much truth in this. And I think everyone who's listening can find them, find themselves in this. Where are they being beta or are they being alpha and really understanding, oh, maybe our relationship isn't broken. It's just that the way we're doing it isn't. It's just not working.

Yeah. And the other thing, too, is helping couples identify boundaries of where they actually need consensus. Like some of the things that they disagree about. It's actually fine. We don't need consensus in this area. And the mantra I use here is, you do you, I'll do me. And we. We. We find where we intersect and we do life together there, but we're not gonna find. Fight about how the dishwasher is loaded or how she's gonna spend her. Spend her hobby or pursue her passion. Like, there's. There's two individuals here, and we need to make room for both individuals inside the container of the relationship. Because when both people feel like they have to sacrifice in the name of the relationship and they start edging themselves out to make the couplehood work, of course they're both going to feel resentful. Of course they're both gonna feel like something's not working because they've edged the core pieces of themselves out. And so this. This relationship spectrum makes room for both people fully at the table.

Mm. I love that. I love that. So let's say someone comes in and you walk them through this, they start to see this. They start to understand the alpha and the beta and where they're at on this. Ambition, growth.

Where.

Is that what you call it? Ambition gap. Gap. Ambition gap. Where. Where do you. Then. I know everyone's different, but talk to me about play. Talk to me about all these different pieces that are inside your book that. That really help this couple begin to thrive. Not just like, okay, we can make it. Like, that's that feeling of like, can I make it through this? Is like, what the hell is that?

Yeah, right.

You know, we've all been there. Like, can I just make it through this? Is there a timeline? Is there a gap? So here's the space of where you're like, let's not just make it through. Let's, like, really create. How do you help them do that?

Play is my favorite playground for that, because play is where love grows. Play is the opposite of work. It's the opposite of depression and the grind and logistics and responsibilities. And when we look at couplehood and how we go from meeting and dating to married is because the dating stage is filled with play. It's tailgating, hiking, kayaking, concerts. It's all of the fun stuff. And so that's where it's really easy to fall in love, because both people are unbridled. We get to see the light in one, in one another. We get to see both people at their best. But that's where we connect. And then we add in the house, the businesses, the cars, the kids, the pets, the aging parents, and all of these responsibilities, and play gets squeezed out the window. And. And so, of course, we can fall into ruts. And, you know, so I start with play to help couples get reconnected. And I do that through date nights. And this is. This is what's different about the date nights that I coach my couples through is that it's not dinner and a movie, because when you're at dinner, what are you talking about? The kids, the pets, the house, the business. And it's just perpetuates this rut. And so play is when bodies are moving, and it's where we connect. And it started there. I'm actually. I actually have my degree in recreation. And so it started in the way that. That people fall in love is through play. But then the more and more time I was in entrepreneurial circles and working with entrepreneurs and coaching, and I started learning more about flow. That's actually where I was like, oh, this is why play is so important. Because entrepreneurs, just like elite athletes, musicians, artists, achieve flow and work. When we get into the zone and we get great results with little effort, we lose track of time. Everything else fades away, and it's a dopamine rush. It's. It's where all the good brain chemicals are released, and it's the same chemicals that cause addiction. And so that's how workaholism starts. And so spouses of entrepreneurs have that to contend with. They have that whole adrenaline rush that entrepreneurs get in their business versus what happens at home with the grind and the carpool and fix. The refrigerator in the garage door needs fix. And, like, there's. There's too much at home. And so, of course, the entrepreneur is always gravitating back towards work. Play activates the same chemicals as flow does, except it adds the extra boost of oxytocin, which is the love hormone. So in play with your partner. For entrepreneurs, when you have that sense of play with your partner, you can actually duplicate flow states at work and then some, because it bonds you with that person. And so when I talk about play, it's moving your bodies. It's following Steven Kotler's recipe for flow outdoor novel environments. You and the activity are one. There's a slight degree of competition and engagement, but it's not an obligation. And when you're in that state with your partner, it creates a completely different bond.

I love this. I love this. So, you know, flow state's like where I want to play all the time.

Yeah.

What, what I really think is great about you and your book is that people can hear play, but because they haven't played for so long, it's like, it's like a concept they don't even remember.

Yeah.

And so you really help them understand how to play. Like we have to be retaught and how to play with our partners. Because if you've been in a marriage or relationship for a really long time, it's like you create these patterns that are just so damn boring. And the idea of play is like, it's a foreign language. So how do you get people into knowing how to play and like finding their recipe?

Yeah, couple things. First, depends on the state of their, of their existing relationship. So if they're cold and distant. Hard hards. I start with onlooker play. This is the lowest level of intimacy. It doesn't require a ton of engagement. It doesn't require a ton of collaboration. It's go to a comedy club together, go watch a show together, go watch a, like a musical or theater. Like, do something where you're getting to watch that gives you something different to talk about afterwards. You know, you're changing your state. You're. You're working on your imaginations together. You're intellectually expanding together. But it doesn't require like major intimacy. It's just a way to start to bring those two tails of the tiger together in a really easy, non threatening way. And as the couple starts to defrost or thaw out, we move up the intimacy scale. And so we might get into parallel play, which is next. So maybe it's a bike ride together or kayaking together where you're doing your own things together next to each other. But again, it doesn't require like interdependence it's just something you're doing alongside one another. As we move up the scale, it might get into physical play, which could.

Be.

Walking together or running together. It might be a workout together. Keep it going along that spectrum further and further we get to competitive play. Maybe you're playing pickleball with each other, against another couple, or against each other. And then the height of that is artistic play where you might be painting together and that you're really collaborating on creation. You're doing something together, gardening. If it's both, if it's enjoyable to both of you, because it's not, that's not always the case. So if there's some kind of artistic creation that you guys can do together, it might be a dance class. That's the height of intimacy because you're like it. It's. That's a soul pursuit that's connecting you guys at your souls. And so the spectrum is going from onlooker play, which is very low intimacy, to artistic play, which is very high intimate intimacy. So that's. That's how I coach couples on how to get there. But you brought up a good point. Like, we don't really know what to do. And a lot of times, by the time my couples get to me, it's like their idea of play is very different. Often they consider that evidence that they're no longer compatible or evidence of how challenged the relationship has become. And this is where I allow both people to come back to the table, where, what if we didn't treat our differences as a. As a liability, but instead we treated them as a life expander? And so it expands what's possible for us as a couple, because we get to spend one day date night doing what you love to do most, and the next date night we get to spend doing what I love to do most and most. And we bring each other into one another's world. And now that expands both people's experience and exposure to life. And so if we treat our differences as a way to expand our life experience instead of narrow it, it's a complete, completely different relationship to how we're going to go out and play together. Because some people like really fat. Call it crop dusting. They just, like, cropped us through all the. They travel, they just want to blow through the cities. And one spouse is like, no, I want to sit and linger. And like, people watch. And so it's taking turns in one another's spaces and totally immersing yourself in what's available to one another's. Differences. Hmm.

I love this. What. What it brings for me is, you know, my marriage ended seven months ago, so I definitely know what it feels like to have relationship break. And what I want to bring here is to all those who are listening, who feels like how I felt, and I'm sure you felt when your marriage ended, right, where it's just, like, a place of hopelessness and a place of, like, no repair. What I love that you bring is that you bring in the hope and you bring in tactical things that this. Oh, this is how I can begin to repair. And there's this image that keeps coming to me. And I don't know if you said this in one of our coaching sessions. This is probably yours, but it keeps coming to me, which is like, if I go on a trip with someone, I always have my clothes in my suitcase. And he would have his clothes in his suitcase. I'm never wearing his clothes. That seems ridiculous. And when you talk like this, it's like, somehow we were taught that we're supposed to wear their clothes, but you teach like, no, you wear yours and he wears his, but you're on the trip together.

Right, right, right. Because that's total accountability to making sure that both people are showing up fully, you know? And this. This was the line that changed the game for me in my relationship. So in my first marriage, I was with, um, I was hyper alpha, unhealthy alpha. My way or the highway, let's go. I know everything. Get outta my way. And so I learned a lot about emasculation. I learned a lot about. About both people showing up fully and what happens when your partner just keeps obliging. Like, at one point I was like, just fight with me. Like, push back something. And so in my next relationship, when I was with another fellow entrepreneur, equally driven, equally ambitious, equally weird. It was amazing at first, until years in one day, he looked at me and he said, where's Kelly? Where's the woman I could. I fell in love with that could light up any room? And I was like, oh, wow. Like, I had gone from unhealthy Alpha to unhealthy beta. And I realized in that moment, he hadn't taken anything from me. I had given it to him. And so this framework of wear your own clothes forces both people to pack your own suitcases. Like, make sure that you're holding space for yourself and the relationship. And that comes through communicating boundaries and expectations.

Oh, I love this. I love this. And I. I want to just appreciate your journey, like, for this minute Here, like, appreciate the journey for you to have been full alpha and then watch go to full beta to like, have walked both pathways. How does it feel now to be in a relationship where you find yourself more in the healthy middle? How does that feel to your body?

Ease held downstream, Effortless. I'm not saying that my relationship is easy. It, it, it is. But the, the work and the accountability of showing up for communicating, for communication is exponentially. I mean, it feels effortless, like, oh, this is actually how it's supposed to be. And so contrast is a powerful teacher. And I think for all of us, you know, we, when, when we're, when we come out of one extreme, it's natural to overcorrect and go totally to the other extreme. So I'm glad that I have the contrast of both of those extremes because both of them were exhausting. You know, hyper alpha was exhausting and it was dry and brittle and lonely and frustrating and then unhealthy beta, hyper beta was exhausting. Lonely, insecure, like it was uncertain, rocky insecure. And so both of those contrast to show of like, ease and no fear, no judgment. Like, I'm not scanning for evidence of like, the ways that he's doing too much or too little of anything. Like, we're both just showing up and we both just keep going. And the, the rule out from the, out of the get go is like, maybe this is the deal breaker. Like, we're a yes until we're a no. And every day is just another yes. It's just another yes. Like we're not attached to this. We have to keep cramming ourselves into this, like, little narrow version of a relationship that's going to take us till, you know, the sunsets. It's, we're a yeah, we're a full yes until we're no. And when we keep both showing up fully and we keep knowing like, what, what space the other one holds, it's really, really easy to just keep taking the next step.

Oh, I love it. And I love that you use the word downstream. Like, that just feels so good to me. Like, you know, I, I go on the rivers all the time with my kids and going upstream is so damn hard.

Yeah.

And when you just go downstream, it's just like, oh, this feels so nice.

Yeah.

The sun is on you, the birds are flying. Yeah, it's a whole thing. So I love that visualization. I would love for you to show us. Do you have your book with you? Can you show us the COVID of your book? That's so beautiful. Oh, I love it. I love the imagery, I love the piece. And I want you, as we're kind of rounding up here, I want you to explain, because this is going to help our entrepreneurs right now, why it's so important for them to focus on relationship and how this is gonna help their business.

Yeah, this is the catalyst. You know, a lot of times when, when I'm working with the entrepreneur, they're like, just, just tell me what to do. Like, I'm exhausted. Just, just tell me what to do. And I do. I would. They, they have a dashboard that we use so that they actually have metrics that they can measure. But what they don't understand, like, once they get some wind in their sales and they start to experience is, oh my gosh, like this actually is one plus one equals three synergy. Like the wind is at my back. I'm not time on the ride home or like towards the end of my day, like, what am I going to be in trouble for now? Or what? What I have to have eyes on now. Like, it is I now I can't wait to get home. And one of my favorite lines from my clients, he said, for the first time in our 16 year marriage, I haven't wished it was like it was in the beginning because it's better now than it was then. And I like when they can understand that the relationship is a multiplier, especially if the entrepreneur is a man and the spouse is a woman, that that feminine presence is a multiplier. Give a woman anything, she'll multiply it. And so if you can give the woman the, the provision, the protection, the pursuit that most women are craving or seeking in relationship, she'll turn around with exponential praise, exponential playfulness, exponential support in your purpose. And that's, that's the catalyst. You know, the, the metaphor that I use is the Clydesdale. One Clydesdale can pull, I think, £8,000. And so you think if you put two together, they can pull £16,000. But actually two Clydesdales working together can pull £24,000. It's the ultimate example of one plus one equals three synergy. And so for an entrepreneur who hasn't gotten the love relationship right, no matter how much he's killing it in business, he is only at 33% capacity because he's missing that full multiplier of that powerful partnership. And I talk a lot about.

Man.

Being the entrepreneur, woman being the partner. And Kira, you know, this was the hardest part of writing my book because there's so many variables. Um, Yeah, I myself have been two of them. You know, I'm the woman entrepreneur. I'm unmarried. Like, there's, there's, there's same sex couples. Like, there's tons of variables. And so I speak very generally, and I want to underscore there are gender nuances in my work. And all couples can benefit from this. You know, it takes some. Some work to, to make sure that the roles and the pronouns are appropriate for you. But all of this supports all couples, especially if there's an entrepreneur in the mix, because it's that we're wild cards. You know, we're a different breed, and so the normal strategies of couples counseling and, and date night aren't always going to work for us.

Yeah, I think you nailed it. Like, we. To be an entrepreneur is a completely different breed, which means that it has to be different relationships, the healing, the action. Like, everything just has to be different. And I think I love how you share this piece because any entrepreneur who goes to a mastermind or listens to a podcast and they say, this is going to 10x your revenue, they're like, holy hell, yes. I will go out, I will start doing mailers, I'll start doing Facebook ads. Like, they're always in. You're saying, if you can heal your relationship, your business is going to be so much more successful. Let's not, let's not deny that. Because it doesn't look like a marketing protocol. Like, no, this is actually the thing. Because if your relationship sucks, you're taking so much energy. There's so much energy to. To deal with the pain, to deal with the struggle, to deal with the loneliness that if that is not worrying over here, all this energy, you get to have it push your business up.

Yeah.

That's why your book. Every entrepreneur needs your book. Every single. It needs to be like the golden rule book for entrepreneurs.

Thank you. Thank you. I agree. Yeah. And not only are you not wasting the energy worrying or just being distracted, you're getting a whole other set of eyes and ears and a whole other mind to brainstorm with you at night. Like, not that she wants to hear or he wants to hear all about work all of the time. That's not what I'm saying. But I am saying that when you guys can. Can sync up like that, you get a whole new set of wisdom and talents coming into your life that you have new perspective on as well. Even. Even if your spouse never sets foot in the business. Mm.

I love it. I love it. Well, Kelly, your book is now live on Amazon it is an extraordinary book. It also has a mini book that if people just want to get a taste, there's a mini book out there. But I would say buy the whole thing. Get. It's not very long. It's very simple to follow and to implement.

Yeah.

You have a whole body of work that supports entrepreneurs. If someone listening today is at that brittle place, or maybe not even brittle, but they're like, I gotta get this going in my life. I've got to nourish and juice up my relationship. How do they get a hold of you? How do they join your body of work?

Any of the socials they can track me down. So Instagram, I'm the entrepreneur. LinkedIn. Kelly Clemens Facebook coach. Kelly Clemens. YouTube Kelly Clemons. My website is KellyClemons.com so let the Internet sluice go get to work and track me down and I'll be ready for em.

Yeah. And I would highly suggest anyone listening go follow her YouTube. Get this book. We barely touched the surface. I feel like I know our time is up, but if you could just drop one more just nugget. What is the. What's the one that comes immediately to you?

It takes two happy, healthy people to create one happy, healthy relationship. So it's making sure that both people, the relationship is only ever going to be as happy and healthy as the least happy and healthy person in it. And so that's why I do the work with both people. It's both people need to be working towards the horizon together.

I love it. I love this. Well, Kelly, it has been one of my deepest honors to work with you in bringing this book to life. It is an honor to be your publisher. I can't wait to see us go change the world with this book. Thank you. And you know I say this all the time. Entrepreneurs are the ones who change the world. So if we can help entrepreneurs heal their relationships, we actually go out and change the world quicker, faster, better, deeper. And you have a huge piece in that.

Thank you. Thank you. Kira, it's been amazing working with you start to finish. Thank you so much.

My honor. You're welcome. So as we close, I love to do this. I want you to place your hand on your heart and I want you to drop into your heart and I want you to speak directly to the entrepreneur or the spouse or both. I want you to breathe some hope into them right now so that as they leave this episode, they have more energy, they have more faith, they have more hope. What would you tell them?

You absolutely can have a successful business and a deep, thriving relationship. It's not an either or, it's an and both. You're worthy of it. Your spouse is worthy of it. If you have kids, they're worthy of it. And in accepting both of those, a thriving business and a deeply connected relationship, you have opened up your life to a world of possibilities. Yes.

To this.

Thank you.

Kelly, thank you for being on the show today.

Thank you.

And I'm going to end with my simple message of you were born to do something great in this world. You were born to create. And whatever this episode did for you today, use it. Use it like energy and fuel to create something different in your life. Go make a difference. Be your brightest self. And I will see you next week.