How to Evolve through Your Life's Biggest Transitions including Retirement | Mark Rollins

All right, my friends, welcome back to the I was born to do this podcast. I am your host, Kira Brinton and I'm so excited because today we have a Jway author on the show who you are going to fall in love with. He has one of the biggest hearts of anyone I've ever met and he just wrote one, one of the most extraordinary books. Welcoming to the show, Marcum Rollins. Thank you so much for being here.

Kira, it is an honor and a pleasure and I'm humbled to be on your show. I cannot wait to hear what we're going to talk about because I never know.

I know we don't. And this has had so much resistance. This is our third take, so everyone listening. Like everything the Internet's been falling apart. Passwords are lost. That is proof that this episode is going to be so damn good. So everyone listening, you better tune in because when resistance hits, it's because of the power that's coming.

Well, on our Instagram Live last week we shut down the Internet, remember?

I totally forgot we were doing the best Instagram Live and literally Instagram shut us down. Said due to content, which, yeah, was nothing. There was no content to be shut down. We're just going to break the whole Internet with this.

Whatever it takes. Whatever it takes to get the message out.

Oh my gosh. Okay, let's talk. Let's dive in and you just tell everyone just a little snippet of who you are before we, before we really swim in your book and your message.

Well, I'm a serial entrepreneur. I'm 60, nearly 67 years old and I've built a bunch of businesses and I still active in a few and you and I met a couple of years ago and I wanted some help and how to write a book with my wife and I, we have a retirement YouTube channel and we really feel like we need to write a book about all of the non financial issues that people go through when they retire. And when we were doing our first channeling, he said, well, writing that book is going to be really easy, but I'm feeling and seeing some other book for each of you to write first. And that was how this book was born.

Yeah, well, so exciting. That was such a beautiful time to sit with you both and feel that which you know, we should definitely write that retire, retirement transform book. But this book I'm going to show everyone because this is going to be on our YouTube. The Evolved Man. The evolving man. Life virtues Men don't talk about. This is the book that came through you And I'm going to say I believe you were the one to write this book because you live these virtues, you breathe these virtues. You have one of the biggest hearts I've ever seen in a man. And so this book had to come through you. So talk to us about how this book started to birth. What was the first part of this book? Do you remember?

I do. I actually kept a journal in the beginning, the first three months or four months of writing the book. And I remember it was Thursday, July 21, 2022. Thursday morning the day before you and I had our first one on one session. And you told me I didn't know what I was going to write about. Kind of knew it was going to be life virtues for men. Not even sure if I use that. I think my original idea was life towards unconditional Love. I didn't really know what it was going to be called, but I knew I was going to talk to men about how to become better human beings. So that Wednesday I said, I don't know what to write. Never written a book, don't know what to do. And you said to me, I want you to go to bed tonight. I want you to lay in bed and I want you to ask God for some direction. And I promise you, you'll get it. Close your eyes, pray to him and look for some direction. And I'm an early morning person. I get up at 4am Our home in Connecticut. I walk down the street to go to the river to watch the sun come up. And I was down there. And this, I had my journal and this is what I wrote. I felt like I slept in his hands last night. And I. That's the first thing that I wrote. And then I'm sitting there and I'm writing some other things. I had some ideas. Should I write about selling the company? Journey to transition. It was all. It wasn't really about life virtues yet. But I went home and I started writing at 6:22 and I stopped at 7:15. And I wrote 792 words about selling my company or no, I think working for my dad. Yeah, so. And I felt really proud and excited. I said oh my gosh. I actually put some words. So I just kept at that routine for 16 months. Yeah, I had a little couple dry spells. You know, whoever's written a book before, if you're listening to this, you know what it's like. It doesn't just happen overnight. Some people it does. But I always thought I was going to write a business book. You know how to sell insurance or how to be the best CEO. And you taught me about writing a book through my heart instead of my brain. And I had all these ideas to write books that would require me to write it from my brain. And I'd only put together the table of contents. I'd never written one word. And when you taught me how to let my heart come up with the words, then the words came out. It was amazing.

That's so cool.

It is. Yeah.

It's such an extraordinary experience. And watching you bring this book to life was such an honor because of the care that you put into it, the care that you put into every word and into all the pieces. And then there's this really extraordinary aspect of your book that came to you. What would you say a month after you started writing it?

Yeah, I was. We started writing middle of July, middle of August. I. Middle end of August, I said to you, I feel. I feel like something's missing from this book. It feels a little bit weak. It feels a little bit shallow. And you and I chatted about a better structure for the chapters when it came to the life virtues. I think the first chapter I wrote about was vulnerability, and I wasn't really sure how to do it. But then you said, look, the first thing you want to do in the chapter is call it out, like, what is vulnerability? So that the reader knows what it is you're talking about. And then give us a story of a lesson that you learned in your life about vulnerability. And that part, for me, was the easy part. All of these stories just flowed through me. And then I said, well, what next? And I said, well, maybe I'll give some journaling questions. You said, that's a great idea. So I had the four questions, and then I'm like, well, that's not enough. And we started chatting about me sending an email to other men and just do it. Experiment. You said, just send some out and see what happens. So I found 60 men that I knew quite well, and I sent them an email. So I'm writing a book. The first chapters on vulnerability here are. And I gave a little bit of the story. My lesson here are four journaling questions. Do you mind thinking about these and sending your answers back? Well, of the 60 emails, I got 40 back with. With answers that was like, I don't know, 240 responses.

Like, how crazy is that, though, right?

Yeah. No, no. So this book. Then I added another bunch of names out of my phone because I said, I really want a broad audience. I want different age groups. I want different ethnic. Ethnic groups. I want. I just want a good, diverse group of men. So I ended up with a list. I put it in Excel, and it was 150 names on the dot. I don't know what that means. One day it'll come to me. Or maybe that's what God wanted me to have. But 150 men. And I did that for 18 weeks on the 18 chapters. And I got more than 2,000 responses that I had to call through and read every single one and categorize them and, you know, which ones come in the book. I remember halfway through the process, I. I emailed all the men and said, I need a week off. And I call, I talked to you and I said, this is too much for me. And you said, you know, you have to understand your. Because the responses, Kira, were. Some men were. Were revealing to me things that they'd never revealed to anyone before. And I thought, this book is going to be great because men will be able to, you know, to write down what they're feeling. And as I, as I say in the beginning of the book, it's almost like a men's discussion group. You get to hear other men that have the same struggles that you, that you have, yet they are working it out, and we're working through it together.

Okay, we're going to tie it into your book because you were really like, wait, should we keep all of these quotes in the book? There were 2,000. The book was going to end up being like 700 pages.

I know.

And so I was like, no, we're not publishing a 700 page book because no one will read it nowadays. Like, in the day and age that we live in, no one will read these. So you went in again and you prayerfully chose which quotes needed to be in the book, which is why this on. Of all the books, over 100 books we've published, this is the hardest one, because you had to go in and pick out which quotes to keep, which ones had to go. Like, the refining process, this book was extraordinary.

It was. I mean, your. Your editor, Hannah, was amazing. She and I, we never disagreed on anything. We just collaborated and worked together. And, you know, when I told her I wanted to take this one out or put that one back in, she said, let me read it again. She goes, yeah, I see why you want that in now. So it was really a great collaboration. But there was so much. I mean, there's so much that's not in the book that's still out there that I can do something With. I mean it.

Yeah, Yeah. I just had an idea.

What's that?

We should make a mini book that's just all the men's quotes, like a little mini one that's like a bite sized kind of a book. You know where that would be interesting. That'd be interesting. That's just my entrepreneur brain that's always coming up with new things. But I really want to talk about who needs this book. Like, let's talk about who. Who do you. Who did you write this book for?

Well, I wrote it for men and I wrote it for all men of all ages. And I think what I'm finding is women like it too. I've got a lot of women who are reading it who said, wow, I'm loving this book and I'm going to make sure my husband reads it because he needs to read it. But I needed to hear a lot of these things as well. So, you know, it could be the evolving person, but it's written by a man. So I went down that road. And I think men in particular, my wife Jody and I don't agree on this, but I think men have a harder time with some of these life virtues than women do. I think that men were taught for forever to be strong and stoic and to be in control and not to cry and not to feel ashamed and not to be vulnerable, not to share your truth because we're supposed to be strong and all have our shit together. Can I say shit on this?

Yeah.

So, you know, my dad had this saying when I was a little kid and I cry. He says, stop your crying or I'm going to give you something to cry about. So I think that men need to know it's okay to cry. It's okay to reveal your feelings to people that are close to you. Your, Your spouse, your children, your brothers and sisters. It shows that you're human. And I think, oh my gosh. On our. On our Instagram live last week, you talked about. I love what you said. Listen, Mark, I am a single mom and I have four kids. So many times, five kids. And I need to pull the masculine card. And you went on about all of that. And I said, kira, you know what? We need to teach people how to pull the human card. And maybe that's why women like this book as well. We all need to learn how to be human, not male or female. We need to be human. And I also said to you, God created man first, and then he took a rib to make a woman. And I said to you, I wonder what the world would be like if he did it the other way around. I don't know.

I don't know. But I will say this. I have four sons, so I have five children, but four of them are sons. And I have one specifically, who is. He's so great. And he also, like, defies all authority. Right. And he, he gets on this kick where he's like, all this feminism, but like, what. Where is it? Where's the support for boys? Where's the support for men? And, and I really sat with him in that. Like, you're right. Like, we need more support for men. And I love that you wrote the book for the Evolving man simply so that men feel seen.

Yeah.

Because I hear him and he's like, really clear. Like, we aren't seen, we aren't heard. And I hear it and I feel it. And so I love that you wrote this just for men, even though women will read it and they will love it. But to have men just be so like, I see you and this is for you is really special.

Well, the, the journaling questions and the answers from the other men that are in the book align so well with what a lot of men struggle with. But they have no one to talk to about it.

Right. There's like, it's almost like they know that there's. They have this inside of them, but no one's given them shape or context to how they're feeling. And so it's so hard for them to ever speak about it because no one taught them how to put it into a form. And you did in this book. And this is give men completely new language. It's going to give them access to feelings that maybe have been hidden most of their life. And it's going to help them show up to be better fathers, better husbands, better brothers, better sons, better employees, better everything, simply because you've given them context to what they've been feeling, but no one has helped them understand it before.

Well, it's true. And I think the context is important. And just as important as that is, at the end of each chapter is a challenge. And I tried to put it in very simple terms on. If you're struggling with listening with those closest to you, here's an exercise you can go through with a person. Same thing with vulnerability, same thing with having an out of control ego. And it's, it's things that we all can change. I. I will tell you, I mean, it's my book, so, you know, certainly I think it's a good book, but I Think if men read the book and do the work, there's 18 opportunities, 18 chapters for them to move in a different direction in all these areas of their life. And I think that that is if you're willing to put into work and you're willing to, you know, to want to change, to become better. Oh, my gosh, this is going to be great for you. If you're one of these men who says, you know what? I'm fine the way I am. I don't need to read any books. I mean, I know people, men who don't read any books. And to me, that is such a lost opportunity to even to read a novel, just something to jump into a fantasy that takes place and get out of the reality that you're in and just, you know, read a fable, read a poem, do something to break up your life a little bit. Otherwise, it's just constant. Do this, do that, you're on autopilot, and the next thing you know, you know, you're 90 years old and what happened? Yeah. So.

And that's the call. That's the call to action. The call to action is live differently. And not just for men. Women too. Like, yeah, let's get out of our stagnancy. The grind, the work. Work, work. Num, num, num. Work, work, work. Nom, nom, nom. It's like your book comes in like a sword. Like, hey, let's get down to the. The nitty gritty of living. And so I think that this is just so powerful. I want to read through the. The virtues that you go through. Do you have your book with you?

I do.

Great. Because we're gonna play Wheel of Fortune again. You know, that is my favorite game. Okay. But right now, I'm just gonna read this right now. So there's 12 life virtues in this book. And we've got listening, vulnerability, humility, forgiveness, regrets, relationships, gratitude, ego, compassion and empathy, curiosity and learning, kindness and generosity and love. And it's so beautiful. That's just one section of the book. There's so many other pieces, but I really feel like just those topics. These are the topics that every mother wishes that she could teach her son.

Yeah.

And I will be honest that I don't think many sons are taught these topics by their fathers. And so there's a disconnect because they need to be taught by a man. These things. It's different. When a mother teaches her child about her son, about these things, there's a different thing. It's different. It's a disconnect but to have a man teaching this, that is where the magic is. And that's why I'm just so grateful you wrote this book. Like, my son's coming home in two weeks and he's getting this. I'm sending him back to Nashville with this. Please let Mark teach you.

Well, you know, it's funny, I. When I look at the 12 life virtues, you can easily find hundreds of books on each of these. Each 12. That's a lot of reading to do. When I originally thought about this, you and I were. I'm an eagle Scout and I got my 21 merit badges and it was all different components that I learned that I've taken all of that through my whole life, these merit badges on all of these topics. And this in a way is that kind of book where you can learn just enough about listening, vulnerability, compassion, humility to understand where you are on the scale through the journaling questions and then how to tweak it to make yourself better. And each chapter is, I don't know, eight pages. So it's not if you did a chapter a week or a chapter a day, you know, in three months, if you really do the work and we have a companion workbook that goes with it, you really will change who you are for the better. Guaranteed.

Guaranteed. And I see visions of men. I'm going to put this out there for everyone who's listening, grab three other men and get together and commit to doing this. Like a little bit of a mastermind, where you say every week we're going to take a chapter, we're going to go through it together because it's actually in the connection with other men that is going to radically change readers lives. Going through these questions together, sharing, creating that safe mastermind experience for men. I think that's, that's my invitation as the publisher of this book, but also as your friend and watching you write this like the men need this. Men are hungry for this.

Well, the, the book is new. It's only been out since Friday and today is Monday, so it's fresh in the hands. Several hundred copies have been sold already and I'm getting a little bit of feedback, but I'm also feeling a little bit like there might be a need for me to do an online book club. You know, get, I don't know, give this a month or two and see about, see the energy. And I go on once a month and talk about a chapter or once every two weeks. I mean, who knows? I, you know, that helps people get to another level. That, that would be awesome. I don't know.

I love the idea.

Yeah.

Okay, we're gonna do Wheel of Fortune. This is my favorite game. So you're gonna take your book and you're gonna, you're gonna both do it. I like this. Okay, so you're gonna, you're gonna just spread the pages and you're gonna stop.

Okay, I stopped.

Okay. What did you land on?

Relation. The chapter on relationships.

So why don't you tell us, either read a section or tell us a piece that was really impactful for you to write.

So I landed in the middle of some of the men's comments. Oh, it was my story in here is. I'll start to read it and I'll just tell you the story. It was 2:30 in the afternoon on Friday, December 28, 2018, and I was sitting at my desk typing a goodbye email to my 80 colleagues. It was the last day of my 38 year career and I wanted one last chance to express my gratitude and appreciation for all that we built together over the past 38 years. So I'm sitting at my desk and I had semi retired a couple years before then I wasn't really involved in leadership anymore, but I had some really good friends. I mean I had some people that worked with me for 25 years and I saw them every day. It was my work family. We all know what a work family is like for those of us that go into an office. And I sent this email and I gave my personal email at the end and I said, I'd love to hear from any of you and I hope all is well. And I hit send and then I turned my computer off and I walked out the door and I remember sitting in front of the office building looking up at it going, wow, 38 years, fourth generation family business. We had sold it five years earlier. And I couldn't wait to get all the emails back that weekend. Oh my God, it was wonderful. I loved all my time there and I'm waiting and waiting and waiting. I got three emails. Three, three. And I this chapter on relationships and I thought I was fooling myself a little bit. These were, relationships were situational. They were there because we worked together. I had thousand people in LinkedIn that were, that were clients and centers of influence and good friends and colleagues and all the insurance company people. When I walked out the door, that was over. I was replaced. Someone else took my spot. So what it taught me was how precious relationships are. And I had to rebuild a network of people in my life. When I Retired. And for those of you that are thinking of retirement, this is a huge loss that you have when you leave your business in your career, these people go away. So I learned how to hand pick a few people in my company that I used to work with. And they're still really good friends, but the effort had to be from me. We need to put the effort forward to create, sustain, manage and build relationships. That's really what I learned.

It's so powerful. That's so powerful and such an important aspect of. And we'll talk about it. Well, we'll just talk about it right now around the work that you and Jody, your wife, do, helping people past retirement. Why don't you just touch on that for a minute? Because I think you guys are, you are tackling a conversation that has never been brought to the surface in the way that you guys are.

Thank you. It is. When Jody and I first retired in 2018, we started to Google. We were a mess. We were drinking too much, we were eating terrible foods, we weren't exercising. We were just, you know, we were living the retirement that we all dream about. Sit back, take it easy and enjoy the fruits of your labor. And it was unsustainable for us. So we started to Google retirement planning, retirement lifestyle, how to live a good retirement. And the only thing that really came up, 99% of the returns were financial planners. And we had that, we had a financial planner. So there really wasn't and still isn't a lot of resources on all the non financial components of retirement. So we just took it upon ourselves to work on five pillars of our life. Our physical wellness. Our mental wellness. Our relationships. The relationship with each other, spouse, partner, relationship. And then the last thing is wisdom sharing. What is it we can do as humans who've had great successful careers? Give back in mentoring or teaching or writing a book. Just really doing what we were called to do after our career. So we have a YouTube channel and that's all we talk about. And it's just doing great. I mean, it's got, I don't know, 33,000 subscribers and 3 million views of our videos in two years, which is phenomenal, insane.

And it's because everyone needs this. Like, and I know people probably talk about this, but it blows my mind because when I was young, 67 was like, my grandpa who the couch, watching TV all day. 40. My mom was like, felt so old, like she wasn't doing anything that like, made her alive. Now I'm 41. I'm like, are you kidding me? I feel 20. Like, I run incessantly. You're 67.

You.

You feel 40 to me, like. Yeah, we have this whole new lifespan, and no one prepped anybody for it because it didn't used to be here.

No, no.

People would.

Would work, retire, hang, you know, do things for 10, 15 years, and they would die. Yeah.

And so my dad.

My dad died at 80. He mismanaged his retirement in the worst way possible, and he died of alcoholism. He just started drinking way too much and didn't exercise, didn't work on relationships, didn't find any purpose in life, and he withered away to nothing. Was sad. Sad to watch.

It kind of feels like we are prepped for retirement, but no one tells you what life is supposed to be in retirement. So it's kind of like I keep seeing the image of, you know, Pinocchio when he went to that island. What was that island called?

Like, I don't remember the name of the island.

It's like the island of do whatever you wanted. Right?

Like the island of broken toys.

No, but that was an island. But. But it's like the island where, like, they could drink alcohol and they could do whatever they wanted, and there was no rules, and it was mass chaos.

Yeah.

It feels like that's what I think retirement is, is no one preps people for it. And so it's like just mass chaos. Right. Like drinking, overspending over, like, all this because no one's prepped anyone for it, but you guys are. So I will link in our show notes, your guys's YouTube channel.

Okay, cool.

Everyone who's listening needs to go watch it, because everyone's going to hit this. This is. This is where all humans. We're all going to retire at some point, right?

Yeah.

So that. I love that. That came in. Okay, I'm gonna read what I landed on.

Okay.

Landed on kindness and generosity. And I'm going to read the two paragraphs that my fingers touched. Okay. This is your words. I believe generosity is the twin of kindness. They go hand in hand, and when you learn to pair them, your life will change. While kindness means being considerate and helpful to others, generosity means giving something, such as your time or financial resources. You can't be kind without giving something of yourself, and you can't be generous without being kind. And then you go in to tell the story of. You would go to your mom with. As you said so many times growing up, I would go to my mom with peop. With people, problems I was facing. Talk to me about that. I Don't want to read that story. Just kind of maybe talk a little bit about how your mom comes into the story. Do you remember it?

I do, I do. My mother had this saying when I would go to her about a issue with a friend or an issue. Gosh, you know, I'm. I'm 55 years old and my mom's still alive, and I have a client who's abusing me or, you know, just treating me unfairly and all of that. And I would, you know, have coffee with her in the morning and tell her. And the first thing she says, sweetie, give me their number and I'll call them. I don't want them treating my little Markie like that. And I go, ma, you're not going to call me all these people? But she had this saying, and she would always say to me, you know what I'm going to tell you, right? I said, I know, I know. She would say, you just need to kill them with kindness. And I lived my life doing that, and I still do, and my kids do just kill people with kindness. It's kind of a weird saying, but if you are just super, super kind to everyone you run into, everything's going to be okay. And the people that continue to mistreat you or whatever, they don't know how to deal with kindness. So you really start to disrupt their world a little bit. And I believe they remember you. I think they. They remember your kindness at first. Maybe they think you're soft, but after a while, they start to see this person who just is constantly kind to them, even though they know they're being a bitch or something. So I think it does work, and I think it. It moves people to a different place.

I agree. I love that. Oh, I. I wish we knew every topic. But everyone who's listening, everyone who's watching, go get a copy. It'll be in the show notes. It'll be Our. Our YouTube notes. It's up on Amazon. The Evolving man. Mark, it has been my deepest honor to help you write this book. Like, I'm really sad it's done. Like, really, like, it's been such an honor to spend time with you and watch you bring this book to life. And as a mother to four sons, I say thank you for bringing a book forward that they each will need, and I'm so grateful that we able to give it to them.

Well, I appreciate your kind words, and I just want to say that it never would have been written ever, ever, ever, if we hadn't met. And you hadn't consistently, week after week during our sessions, you didn't push me. You didn't pull me. You just kept reminding me what I need to do every day is just open my heart and let the words flow, calling my angels and just let it happen. And I. Did I tell you that after, I don't know, three months, I'd go back and I'd, you know, I'd move the paragraphs around and I'd read them. I'd read them, and I don't even remember writing them. I'd say that to you when I go, it's the weirdest thing. I don't remember writing them. So you're welcome for bringing it together. Thank you for all of your help, and I'm so grateful. I'm not grateful that it's finished. I'm grateful that it's now available for other people to read. Agreed.

Oh, I love that. All right, Mark, tell everyone how they can find you. How can they follow you, be a part of your world?

You can follow me on all social media. Marcumrollins.com is my website. That's Facebook, Instagram. Our business is retirement transformed.com and then you can find all of our links there. But I do, you know, I do a lot on Instagram. Trying to do more, I think just go to those two sites, Marcum Rollins.com and Retirement Transformed.com.

Perfect. All right. As we close, I love to ask my author to get into their heart, take a breath, and just listen and hear whatever message comes to you that you want to complete this beautiful episode with. What would that message be?

There is a different way to go through life. And no matter where you are on the spectrum of kindness, vulnerability, listening, empathy, your legacy, there's changes that you can make today to improve all of that. And reading the book, I think, will lead you down a path of change. And from there, you can go even further with more reading and more researching. But open your mind, open your heart, and be okay with changing, because I think we all need to change and evolve.

Beautiful. Thank you, Mark, for being on the show.

Thank you.

And as we close, I always like to leave some things. Let me. Let me listen to it for a second. For all the men who are listening, I hope that they felt, heard and seen in this episode. And for all the women listening, I hope that this inspires you to see and hear the men in your life differently, that this creates a new conversation and a new way of connection for us to all live deeper, richer lives. All right, my friends, I will see you. Bye, Mark. Love you.

Thank you. Bye. Love you, too.