Book Talk What Anyone Can Do Season 2, Episode 3

Welcome to Season 2 of the Year of the Peer Podcast with Leo Battari and me, Randy Cantrell. This podcast is based on a simple truth: who you surround yourself with matters. Author and keynote speaker Leo Bottari and I will discuss peer advantage and interview thought leaders from all walks of life who will share how they leverage peer advantage and show you how engaging your peers more purposefully can hold the key to greater success in business and in life.

All right, Randy Cantrell. And as I mentioned to you just a few moments ago, the second book is done, appropriately titled, I think, What Anyone Can Do. Even you. But, um, yeah, What Anyone Can Do, and it's how surrounding yourself with the right people will drive change, opportunity, and personal growth. And I would say the difference between this one and The Power of Peers is that The Power of Peers was much more a study of how and why formal peer groups work really well, you know, both in the business and in the education space. This time around, you know, and I think really following the lead of the podcast and how we've evolved the conversation in 2017 during the Year of the Peer, is we looked at really all the people we surround ourselves with and the difference they can make. In our lives. You know, if you remember, right, we talked about this many times. There is not one of our guests that we had on the podcast last year that said they did it all completely by themselves. They shared with us not only the people who contributed to helping them be successful, but also, and I think very importantly, their real belief in paying it forward and working with others to help them as well. And that if we, I think, lived in a world where people were comfortable with reaching out to others, and all of us, I think, were generous enough to help those people who need it in the same way that people helped us along the way, then we could do a lot of really great things. But, you know, as you know, we've talked a little bit about the fact that the title, What Anyone Can Do, and kind of the rejoinder of that from a quote from Joe Henderson in a book you know, that he wrote in 1976 called The Long Run Solution is that it's kind of like this, you know, what anyone can do but no one ever will. So his point is that really successful people aren't the people who can leap tall buildings in a single bound. He said they're the people that do the things that anyone can do, but most of us just don't. We don't have that daily discipline. We don't do those little things. It's why 92% of people fail at their New Year's resolutions according to University of Scranton, because we don't we kind of keep it to ourselves. We set a goal that's realistic. We're not trying to, you know, go to the Olympics or something like that. For most of us, we just set something that seems reasonable, and yet somehow we still can't do it because we start out and we might do whatever it is we're supposed to do for a couple weeks, and then after that, nah, not so much. Kind of just goes by the wayside. We're accountable to no one. We are eager and willing to cut ourselves a break about why we couldn't do that, or this got in the way, or that got in the way. Yet I think in most cases, one of the things that anyone can do is surround themselves with people where we can enlist their support. You know, if I said to you, Randy, here's something I'm looking to complete in 2018, then, you know, enlist you and other people who may be helpful in making that possible, and we kind of work as a team to help me do that. And vice versa, when other people as part of that group are looking to accomplish things for themselves, then we can play a role in whatever that may be. It could be being their cheerleader, it could be providing technical advice, it could be just being that person who says, hey, did you do your 10 minutes of whatever today that you were supposed to do, or 30 minutes of whatever it happened to be? And people who don't want to get that call and have at least too many times say, "No, I didn't get to it again." So I think in many respects, a lot of what we do is we take a lot of the content. Again, it's who we surround ourselves with. So these aren't all my ideas. There are your ideas. There are ideas that come from many of the podcast guests that we just put all together in 12 chapters where we talk about how if we surround ourselves with the right people, we can do those little things that anyone can do far more often. And when we do, we can get a whole lot more of what we want out of life, whether it's in our personal or business lives.

The guest we had last year, as you were reminding us of all that, I mean, so many of them, that accountability factor, their realization that they needed somebody to do that for them. And I think in large part, I think they would all agree with this statement. They found themselves needing to give that in return. It's a very reciprocal kind of a thing, as opposed to all the lingo that we hear today of that we're all listening to the same FM station, what's in it for me, WIIFM. And yet that, that's so not how these people seem to be wired to me, the guests that we had last year.

Yeah. One of the things that's really interesting is there's a, and I think what they realize too is that if they want to actually be helpful to other people, they also have to help themselves. Right. So in other words, I think for me, if I'm trying to do more, I've got to get that much better, that much more knowledgeable, that much more grounded, that much more equipped in every way to be able to be helpful. Like if I'm struggling with all of these kinds of things, I'm not going to be very helpful to someone else. Right. So it's for me to reach out, get some of that help. That I can use to put me in a position not only to realize some personal success and personal grounding out of all this, but it really puts me in a position to be a lot more helpful to many more other people. And we talk about it in terms of kind of the— we've shared this before— the flight safety instructions. You know, when you put the oxygen mask, you put it on yourself first, and then you, you'll be able to— you won't be all freaked out and panicked, and you can put it on someone else and help other people. And, you know, I think it makes perfect sense, you know, in this context as well. That, um, so it's, it's very much, um, you know, working on ourselves, surrounding ourselves with the people that can help us work on ourselves so that we can actually help others. You know, when I think about— and you know, I do these workshops for CEOs and business leaders on their formal peer groups. And if you think about it, you know, we talk about the difference between a group and a team as a group coming together so that they can help each other achieve their individual goals, where teams comes together to help each other achieve a collective goal. Well, if you think about this workshop, it's really getting the group to work together as a team so they can become a better group. When you get right down to it, right? They figure out how do we, how do we help each other get more values? That becomes a team exercise. And we get into the self-assessment and action plan for how to make the group higher performing. But we have to become a team in order to make that possible.

Well, and that benefits every individual member of the group.

Exactly. So it really becomes, you know, comes full circle.

So yeah, well, you know, with the Olympics going on right now as we're hitting the record button, and these team events, and especially, you know, like these, this Nordic skiing relay things and whatnot, I mean, you know, everybody's got to, everybody's got to, they got to pull their, their end of the deal, you know, or the whole thing falls apart. But I think all of our guests last year, and when I think about all the successful people that I have known, and not just in terms of monetary and not just financial, but just success as, you know, in a really broad definition of just people who are, who are making a difference, people who are, who are living significantly. Um, I mean, that just, it seems to be a universal thing of people looking outside themselves and yet able to maintain this context of Here's where I fit. Here's what I can do. Here's what I can bring to the table and not undervaluing that and not overvaluing it either. Perhaps.

I think the Olympics is an excellent example. First of all, whether it's a team sport or an individual sport, there's a team involved in every single person who's there. Um, there is, there are coaches, there are competitors, there are mentors, there are, you know, a whole team of people that allow for people who achieve a certain level of excellence. I mean, there are many people, quite frankly, who are talented enough to become Olympians who never will because they, they don't have that team around them. They don't seek it out. They don't do the work. They don't do what's required of them, you know, in that environment to get where they need to go. And I think for all of us, We are, I think, in many respects, to a person, probably more capable than we show up. And my hope with this book is that people will look at it. It's to be an easy read. As you know, Ryan Folland did the illustrations for it. Ryan's an awesome guy. I met him in Portugal. Of course, he not only is really terrific in terms of the work he does with entrepreneurs, but has a really really, I think, focused a lot of his work on communication and personal branding in a way that I think has been really powerful over the past year. But he also does these amazing little cartoons that are simple and fun. And he worked with me to come up with different phrases and all that would align with each of the chapters in the book. And I think if ends up, and I hope it does, where one of these illustrations also is on the front cover, I think it will underscore the approachability of the content. Like, you know, you don't have to be a brain surgeon, believe me, to read, to read What Anyone Can Do. In fact, it walks you through the steps of it, you know, pretty right from the beginning to the point where the introduction is, how can doing what anyone can do possibly help me? Right. I mean, so, and I think it's just around getting into the mindset of believing in yourself and knowing that, wow, I mean, these aren't impossible things that I need to do in order to get what I want. In fact, it's pretty easy, you know, I just have to do it. And part of doing it is, you know, getting the support and help from people who can make that happen.

Give us some sense of, uh, you know, I don't know, share whatever you're willing to share, you know, with the audience and me as far as the chapters and the kinds of, the kinds of content they can expect.

Yeah. Well, again, I think it walks you through a step-by-step. So once you get this sense of, okay, how will Doing What Anyone Can Do possibly help me, which I think is a necessary question to answer before you want to dive into the rest of the book. Um, the first one, the first chapter really talks about why, um, Nobody does it alone, so why should you? I mean, there is really nobody in this world who's achieved any real notable level of success who did it completely by themselves. And I think that this idea that, you know, self-help is by yourself help, you know, doesn't really make any sense. And that everyone, you know, we can follow their lead, that, you know, those people who get what they want out of life, and whatever that looks like for you personally, professionally, whatever, it's, it's, um, You know, it doesn't have to be super duper lofty, you know, goals. It's what's going to make you happy. It's your definition of success and not mine or yours or any of our podcast guests. So I think once you get past the idea that you don't have to do this by yourself and you can enlist the help of others and they'd be willing to do that, and, you know, assuming of course you would also do the same for them as well. You pointed out earlier, it's a very reciprocal piece. You know, then we get into a lot of work that really for me was inspired by Laura Goodrich in a book she wrote called Seeing Red Cars. Laura basically shares, I think, a very simple but powerful idea that a lot of people, when you ask them what they want, they'll respond by telling you, well, what I don't want is blah, blah, blah, and they list all of these things. But they're not really good at saying, all right, here's what I'm looking for.

Sometimes that's an easy Easier answer, what we don't want.

Sure. But so surrounding yourself with the right people to help you will involve knowing what it is you want and maybe, you know, talking with some people and kind of exploring and discovering that a bit. But then once you know what you're looking for, then you're far better equipped to identify those people who can help you make that possible. Um, so, and we get into, you know, building your dream team and we talk about what that looks like. How do you put together the right kind of people that can be helpful to you. We talk about the next chapter, because I think what gets people hung up oftentimes is this, what I refer to as kind of the yin and yang of expectations and goals. So what will happen is we'll set a goal and we get so far with it and we're like, well, this is kind of hard, you know, or, or it may not be hard, but it's going to take me longer. It's going to excuse me, or it's just going to be maybe a little more than I thought I was getting into. So what helps you persevere during that? One of the examples that brought up was a time when, you know, brought Kristen and Taylor up, our daughters, to climb a mountain. And, you know, you get about halfway up, and this is a 3+ hour climb, and these are kids who thought, oh, being at the top of the mountain would be really cool. But getting there is another ballgame. And they're halfway up, I got one of them saying, hey, the view looks pretty good from here, you know, this is good, this is good, I'm digging this, you know, we can go back now. Another one, you know, my younger daughter Taylor had made a point because we talked about weather, you know, you want to be off the top of the mountain before noon typically in the summer before afternoon thunderstorms. This is like little puff of white cloud up there. She said, hey, is that weather up there? Do we need to be concerned about that? Maybe, you know, so it was kind of funny. But what we ended up doing was, because you'll climb and it's tough, and you keep looking at that peak, you'll climb for 30 minutes and you swear you haven't made a lick of progress. I mean, that thing looks as far away as it did, you know. And it becomes a real metaphor for kind of the distance between kind of where we are and what we want to achieve. But when I suggested to them, hey, let's climb for another 10 or 15 more minutes, but let's look at where we are. And it was like this large bush where we were. So we— they climb up, you know, they, they quickly told me when time was up, you know, in terms of— said, all right, we did our 10 minutes, we did our 50. And they said, see, look at, look at the mountain, it's still the same, you know, distance it was when we started. And I said, look back. And that bush was like a little dot. I mean, they couldn't believe how far they had climbed. Well, that change in perspective alone fueled a whole surge.

Sure.

They went up to the top of the mountain and loved the view, as you might imagine, because there's nothing like the view from up there, just like in anything else in life when we get to the top of something. And, um, you know, I think it had a profound effect on how they view any challenge they have today as young, you know, as adult women who, get what that's about, you know, and they know how to get through that tough time where it feels like you're ready to turn back. And in fact, you know, when you can start reframing some things, you know, it can make a huge difference. You remember, of course, also, you know, one of the real inspirations for the next chapter was Linda Darling-Hammond from Stanford, where we talk about You know, we learn better when we learn together, right? I mean, it's this whole idea that, you know, whether it's a peer group, whether it's like a book club, you know, you read a book, everyone comes together and they talk about the book. And after a couple of hours, you're all going to know the content better than when you walked in the door. You get everybody's perspective, you get things you missed, you get, you know, just all kinds of really great, you know, stuff when you start learning and sharing. In doing that. And of course, she talks a lot about the education system. You know, you posted that great photo on LinkedIn from when you were in like in first grade or whatever it was, right? You know, everyone's sitting in rows, they're looking up at the teacher. Yeah, kids are probably shielding their papers from one another, doing all that kind of stuff, because everyone's just all on your own and just memorizing everything. And, and today, um, you know, collaborative learning has to be you know, the order of the day. We've got to learn how to work together better, how to learn together better, and how to learn how to learn together, which is because this knowledge that we can accumulate sometimes can get irrelevant pretty fast. You know, the world is changing quickly, and this idea of continuing to learn how to learn and be adaptable, we need other people to help us do that. So we talk a lot about that. Next, there's a chapter which is really nothing more than asking good questions and listening for understanding. We don't typically learn when we're talking. We learn when we ask some really good questions and get out of the way. Think about the podcast, right? I mean, all I tried to do was ask some questions and get out of the way. And our guests, because they are so incredibly good and rich in terms of their knowledge. We were able to share, I think, so much with our listeners that was super powerful. But sometimes that sharing is not always easy, particularly when we're— people love to get a lot of connections. They want a lot of LinkedIn connections. They want a lot of Facebook friends and Twitter followers and all that. But what kind of environment do you have to create to actually have deep conversations with people that can really help get you somewhere beyond the surface level of something? And I think this is where we talk about safe haven. And I think where Scott Mordell, CEO of YPO, is particularly insightful with regard to what those environments look like, I think was really helpful. You know, we talk about this idea of paying it forward. This good givers are great getters was one of the lines that Lewis Schiff shared with us during the podcast, and that the more generous we are, the more everybody wins. You know, finally, I think we get into why being a good teammate matters. And these— we've got these last 3 chapters where we talk about why being a good teammate matters. You know, obviously I've talked probably ad nauseam about, you know, UConn's basketball program and this idea that players that get recruited there aren't just great basketball players, they're great teammates, and that's how you get recruited to play for them versus someone who doesn't. And because they have that incredible culture of accountability among the players themselves, it drives the level of excellence to that team where it's not about winning anymore, it's about how do we get better, how do we become, you know, as good to do things in the way that the teams before us did. You know, and that's their standard. It isn't Notre Dame or Stanford or South Carolina. It's their own standard of excellence they set largely on that idea of being a good teammate. No one goes to UConn because they believe that if I go to this team, I'm going to be the leading scorer in the country. Not going to happen, probably. You know, could, but in all likelihood, it's certainly not why they're there. You know, this idea of high-performing groups and high-performing teams is probably a bit of a look back at some of the content from The Power of Peers. This is where Sam Reese from CEO of Vistage, I think, was really helpful in looking at this chapter, looking at some of the workshops we've done and why high-performing— what makes for high-performing groups and high-performing teams. And then finally, you know, the chapter where we get into crafting a people plan. And of course, we never call it a person, and it's a people plan for individuals and groups or teams. So there's not a person plan and a people plan. There's a people plan for— right, because they all involve people. They all involve the team, like what I described with the Olympics, right? Even when you're an individual performer, you had a team that helped you get there. If you're a team, you've got the team that's on the field, if you will, and then you've got even the team around that that helped make that team behind the scenes. Yeah, so we get into, I think, a very easy issue of really how to prepare, how to plan, and basically how to play. I think the word play, other than the alliteration of course in terms of that plan and why I liked it, but I also think we should have fun at what we're doing. When we're trying to do something for ourselves that we want out of our lives, it isn't just about drudgery. It isn't just about, you know, some of what Kristen and Taylor experienced climbing that mountain and just hating every step. You know, there's an aspect of it you've got to figure out how to inject fun into it, how to be playful about it in many respects, and keeping it fun and keeping it enjoyable. So, you know, the podcast guests, of course, contributed, you know, a lot of great insights into the book. Sekou Andrews, who, as you know, Poetic Voice, who we kind of lead with one of the quotes to get the book started. And then, you know, basically near the end, he kind of brings us home with one of his— with the Poetic Voice piece that he read for us on the podcast, which was really brilliant.

Yeah, it was great.

And, you know, one of the things that I really highly encouraged in the book, and I want to make sure that we have a live link on the ebook and everything is that it's one thing to read those words, but Sekou Andrews is a real master of the spoken word. So there's really nothing like, as you know, hearing him say those words versus us, you know, trying to just simply read them.

He performed them.

Yeah, words are powerful, but there's nothing like the way he performs it. Yeah. You know, it's just brilliant stuff, and I'm so grateful for him and for everyone else. Um, you know, not everyone, not every guest is quoted in the book necessarily, but every guest for sure contributed to the whole, for sure.

Right. Collective. I'm excited for the book because of this, you know, both the scope of, you know, beyond just the power of a peer or what people traditionally think of as a peer. You know, and in the broadest sense, I know that here at the podcast, we're, we're sort of using it in terms of not just peer, but mentor and teacher and master and coach and parent and just anybody that influences us. But I'm excited also about the scope of the people because there's nobody that's immune from this. There's, there's, there's no, the target audience is a human being. I mean, it's not, it's not, you know, it's not just something for business people. It's not just something for CEOs. It's not just something for leaders in a corporation or a nonprofit organization. Or, I mean, it's, it's you and me and the daily lives that we live and whatever it is that we're trying to accomplish, you know, whether we're trying to improve our fitness or our ability to discern what an author was writing about in a book, in a book club, to your point, you know, I mean, it's everywhere, which I think is great and powerful. And so, you know, my hope is that a really wide audience consumes this and gains something from it.

I think when you're at like a Hudson Books and you see one of Ryan's little cartoons and you see a book that reads what anyone can do, you think, well, I'm anyone, I can do that.

Exactly. And that's the point.

And you can read this puppy on a plane too. This is not 400 pages, you know, besides being incapable of writing 400 pages on anything. I just, you know, obviously wanted to keep this tight, wanted to keep it approachable. And very much, I think this is where this differs a bit from the— it's a you know, certainly a less kind of academic approach than The Power of Peers was. And so I'm hoping that— and, you know, one of the people who was— so Susan Lausau was the editor of this book for me this time around, who also participated in editing The Power of Peers, but also Heather Pemberton-Levy, who actually has a book called Story First. Which you imagine is exactly that. And she was not involved directly in this book at all, but I actually have her in the acknowledgements because it was in my head all the time as far as lead with story, lead with story. And a guy who I took presentation training with years and years ago, his name is Tony Lowe, I think is as good as anybody in the world, once said to me, illustrate, don't explain. And, you know, I think that you just never forget that. And when you can really paint a picture for someone and you lead with story, as Heather suggested, there's really nothing like it. So I think there are a lot of, I think, good stories in this book. Some are my own. Some are— one of the things I wanted to do is, so if I'm going to suggest to people that you need to kind of be a bit of an open book in terms of what you want, because that's pretty scary to say to people, you know, because maybe you've got like a super lofty goal, right? And someone looks at you, really? I mean, so if you keep it to yourself, you can get shot down. Right, exactly. So there's, there's real courage involved in, um, you know, being able to express that and do that. But, um, you know, I think You know, once people do and they put it out there, I mean, it can be enormously powerful. And so, yeah, so I'm excited for, you know, I think where this can go and the meaning it can have, you know, for a lot of people. I had a great meeting yesterday with a Vistage chair here in Colorado. His name is Chris Noonan. Chris always offered some great insights for the Power of Peers and obviously continued to offer some good thinking around this. Obviously just super believes in it and believes that group dynamics and all of what we're talking about is going to be such a key to our ability to be adaptive, to be to be agile, to be relevant going forward. And if we're not working together to make that happen, we're going to start falling behind in a hurry. And we're not going to be relevant in a world where machines are going to start playing. I mean, this is kind of the Industrial Revolution all over again on steroids. Yeah. So it's going to be really challenging times, but it doesn't have to be challenging in a way that displaces, I hope at least most people, but it can be challenging in a way that just allows us to see new opportunities for ourselves and how we can contribute to the world.

So one of the ironic things to me, Leo, is these are things that we all— I don't know if it's intuitive or not, but they're all things that maybe we instinctively know because we've learned, we've learned this stuff since we were little kids. And here we are recording. And as we're hitting the record button, it's a Wednesday and it's early in the day. It's Wednesday morning. And just this week, you know, to, to, as you were talking and given the synopsis kind of the book, you know, I was thinking about just two stories that really popped up. For me, one was at LinkedIn and a CEO of a— he does some video production stuff, and I apologize, I don't, I can't, I don't know the company name off the top of my head, but I've, I'm connected with him at LinkedIn and I follow him on social media. His name is Brian Elliott, and he had a sit-down with Seth Godin, and, and he, he— it's a powerful video where he talks about how he was adopted, and it's a story that I'm not gonna deliver the punchline because he did a masterful job, but he was struggling and straining and just trying to, trying to get it, make his company successful. And he had been doing this for a number of years and he tells Seth Godin, I need to thank you for something that you did for me. And he had had some interaction with Seth Godin face to face. Seth didn't even remember it. Obviously he talks to a bunch of people. And he said, what you told me was nobody's going to pick you. Quit waiting for somebody to come and choose you, which is kind of Seth's big idea. You know, you just have to get out there and do it. And it changed just somebody doing that. As you were telling that story with your girls going up the mountain, that ability of having somebody come into our life, even if it's just in that moment in time to reframe it for us. And help us see something that, that we can't see. Not— your girls weren't stupid. They had the ability to turn around and look behind. It just didn't occur to them. But then there was another one. I was listening to an interview that the actor Dax Shepard did with Ashton Kutcher, and I didn't know— he's in LA. He has spent 9 years just laboring, just trying to get on any kind of a commercial he can get on. And nothing's happening. And Ashton Kutcher is, is doing interviews— I went blank on the word— auditions. He's doing auditions for people to join him on that show that he did where he would punk people. I think it was called Punked.

Yeah, yeah.

And he hired— he hired Dax, took him to a Lakers game, introduced him to his manager, you know, and Dax appropriately so thanked him and he said, it changed everything. It just changed everything. I was struggling to work. And from that moment on, I've continued to work. So it doesn't have to be some big choir of people. I mean, people come into our lives at these pivotal moments and say and do the right things and, and it changes everything.

Well, I think I mentioned to you, so I met, um, this guy, his name is Amgard Botros and he's from Australia. And this was the story we joked about, you know, um, when you described this as an act of courage, uh, when we played golf, right?

Right. Right.

Um, but the point being is that, um, you know, whatever forces in the universe brought us in together in the same golf cart, on the same day. And the conversation that we struck up and the conversations we continue to have, by the way, we just had a, you know, a call with, you know, someone the other day where we're looking at trying to help his initiative that he's got going on in Australia that quite frankly, if he's successful at it, could be a global kind of initiative that helps.

And for our listeners that may not know, Leo was in business in Hawaii and he had some free time to go play golf and and he's by himself, he's traveling alone. And so he goes to play golf and instead of playing alone, he figures, hey, just whoever they put me with is fine. That was the point that I, you know, that's courageous. So many people would go, I don't, you know, cause they might be way better than me. They might be way worse than me, you know? So that part, I still maintain that part took a little bit of courage. So that's who, that's who Leo interacted with and he met.

I get used to the chance that they'll likely be better than me. So when I get on the course in that way, that's, you know, so that fear is gone, you know. And, but no, I mean, but the point being is that, you know, here was an interaction completely by chance. I think it will be, who knows where it's going to go or how long it's going to go, but for right now it's really become a really great and rich learning and growing experience for a lot of the people that were continuing to expand the circle of how we make his idea potentially a reality.

It happened because you both said yes. It happened because you both were willing to be vulnerable in that moment and say, sure, why not?

Yeah. And it was really great. But we, you know, you remember Peter Shankman talks about, you know, meet people on airplanes, you know, you meet people anywhere. Jeff Hoffman talks about meeting people in line at Starbucks, you know, and you never know who you're standing next to or what you can learn or what you can gain from even the smallest interactions. And then of course we have those people around us, our family, close friends and all, who, you know, obviously play, you know, a big role in our lives too. And for a lot of us could probably pay a bigger role in our lives if we allowed them in. So, but yeah, it's fun. It's, I think in that regard, when I talk about, you know, really sharing with someone what you want from your life and feeling that you can do that judgment-free from the people there, other than just to have them say, how can I help you make that happen? Right? And I think when we surround ourselves with people like that, you know, it matters a whole lot. There's a deck that I've used where I started off with a cartoon. And it's these two little kids, and they're sitting, and they're playing in this little black and white cartoon. And one kid says to the other, so what do you want to be when you give up? I was like, I'm thinking, all right, that's not the kid I want to be surrounding myself with. Right. I mean, yeah. Cause these, these are the people that hold you at bay or drag you down. They're not the people that you need to surround yourself with to help you get what you want. What do you mean? You know, will you give up?

Don't you think, don't you think there's, man, there's so many people and one of the objectives that I would hope that we would accomplish in this year, It's hard to believe that we're, we're, we're rounding the fourth quarter poll on, uh, on February already. But one of the objectives that I would hope that we could accomplish is to help people not quite be so jaded or so cynical that just because you've encountered so many people who want to make your decision for you and who want to live your life for you, and we all full well know that that's a losing proposition because they don't have to live with the consequences, nor do they live necessarily with the benefits of it. So we need to own it. But because we've had so many people like that in our lives, and we all have, right? Because there's so many people that are very willing to throw rocks, um, that, that we become too cynical and too jaded to not do what you did on the golf course or what he did. In return. You know, he wouldn't have met you, you wouldn't have met him had you not left yourself open to the possibility. And yet with no expectation, which I think is a supremely important subject, probably for another day. But for us to go into it with the expectation, uh, that's— well, I don't know, our, our relationship—

less than no expectation.

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

All we were doing was, you know, just have fun and play golf and hope that people get along. I mean, that's really— yeah, people you've never met, you just want an enjoyable 4+ hours out there that it's going to take. You get this beautiful golf course and you want to be able to enjoy it, you know, yourself and with other people there. And yeah, so that's probably the big priority when you get there. You're just hoping that, all right, this is going to be smooth sailing and it'll be fun. And, you know, and it typically is. I will say that's another thing. I grew up, I played tennis in high school and college and all that. Tennis is a sport where you're hitting a ball at someone pretty much as hard as you can. When you're on the golf course, you're really playing against the course. You tend to be— the dynamic is really when someone makes a good shot, you say it's a good shot. You don't begrudge the fact that— I mean, it's just a whole different feel, a whole different environment.

But there's some positive pressure, isn't there, for you to— if they make a good shot, you naturally want to make a good shot too.

Well, and not only that, but when you play with people who are good, who are better, it makes you better. There's no question about it.

Well, I say this as a non-golfer, by the way.

You know, there's no doubt about that, that it raises your game, you know. And when you play with people who don't care, sometimes you may not care as much either.

Right.

With people who are good, yeah, you want to make one of those good shots. You want to make sure that I'm swinging as smooth through the golf ball, I'm doing the kinds of things that I know I should be doing and focused on each and every shot, just a little bit of a heightened level. Not in a competitive way so much as just I'm capable of that, so I want to do that, I want to be that. And the influence of others around you who are putting forth that same level of effort. You're still having fun, you know, at the same time. And that's not the PGA Tour, you know, we're not taking it ridiculously seriously. Um, but it's, it's nice when you see that. And that's why I actually do love to get out there. And if there's some really good players there, it makes it kind of fun because now I can kind of really focus on that.

So, well, the challenge is worthwhile.

Yeah.

So updates on— so the audience, we were still looking for this book. Sometime this spring? Is that— are we still on track?

I think the production schedule and all that is going to become much more clear really quickly in terms of that. Taylor Francis is going to publish it. Now Taylor Francis was the publisher that bought BiblioMotion that published The Power of Peers. So obviously really grateful that Taylor Francis was interested in, you know, taking on, you know, a second book on this subject. I think they really supportive of it, really believe in it. I think the first book certainly, I think, did well enough where, you know, doing a second one was a worthwhile pursuit. But I think they also really believe in the content and, you know, the difference it can make in people's lives. And I think that they, they got their head around, you know, like anything, if you can just take like a really simple idea and just really kind of flush it out in a way that resonates with people, then I think we'll have something that could be helpful.

So, and a reminder, everybody that contributed in trying to come up with a clever title, and Leo explained that in our first episode, that, you know, because of legalities and copyrights and trademarks and all those things, these things have to be more carefully vetted than the average bear among us probably realizes. But everybody who contributed to that, effort, Leo is going to send them a book. And so that's a, that's a cool gesture on your part.

Well, it's nice of them to, you know, there were a lot of really thoughtful ideas that we had. You know, again, it was just a matter sometimes of, you know, being able to own a URL, for example, or not have it compete with a feature film title, or, you know, different things like that. That, you know, are not always top of mind. A movie that came out 30 years ago, I mean, it may not be, you know, so. But we get a lot of really good ideas and really good thoughts from folks, and it was really helpful. And all it did was help me kind of, you know, reach back into the content a little bit. And that's where I kind of discovered, I think, an opportunity. You know, it's kind of like, what door are you going to walk through, you know, to approach this content? And the door I decided to walk through was the Joe Henderson door, you know, what anyone can do. And so I think that was a helpful way to kind of get into the content. And so, you know, grateful to Joe Henderson and everyone else who contributed their thoughts and ideas to the title. But yeah, should be a lot of fun. As we know, this process, it seems like, oh, spring may seem like a long way away, and it'll be on top of us before we know it.

So yes, it will.

To getting this out there and, uh, you know, uh, having everyone, uh, have a peek at it, you know.

So, and I want to take an opportunity to thank, uh, thank everybody who watches, everybody who listens, everybody who shares, who shares the content. Uh, we're, we're planning some, some guests and we're going to continue to try to expand, you know, the whole, you know, the whole notion of this because in keeping with the book, You know, anyone is, is pretty much as broad as you can make it. So we want to, we want to make the podcast broad in that sense as well. And so we're kind of excited to be able to possibly approach some people and get some people on the show that may be way outside the scope of anything that, that you do, uh, in our audience. But, but I think all these lessons that we can learn from one another, this, this this collective is super powerful. So I'm pretty excited as we get into the year and we kind of get our feet under us. Leo has been doggedly working on the book and he finally, you know, he got some of the edits done. So he's had his plate very full, which is why we've kind of gotten out of the starting gate a little bit slow. Uh, but we promise we're going to— the middle and the end is going to be really strong. I'll make that commitment. I'll go out on a limb and make the commitment.

I think that's true.

That'll challenge us.

We said it out loud and we're bringing people in on this.

Yeah.

Now we got to make it happen.

Now everybody can hold us accountable for it.

All right. Hey, well, um, as always, um, thanks.

Thanks.

You know, look forward to, uh, well, the next week's show.

Yeah, absolutely. See ya. To learn more about Pier Advantage, to submit questions to us, and to subscribe to the Year of the Pier podcast, please visit us at yearofthepier.com. Year of the Pier podcast is hosted by Leo Bottari and me, Randy Cantrell. Our music is Vibe Ace by Kevin McLeod, licensed under Creative Commons by Attribution 3.0 license. Thanks for watching or listening. We hope you'll share the podcast. Until next time.