Clint Pulver On Mentorship

Welcome to Peer Innovation, the podcast with Leo Bottari and me, Randy Cantrell. Building on our previous shows, The Year of the Peer and What Anyone Can Do, we turn our attention to helping business leaders build high-performing teams. We'll talk with a diverse group of thought leaders who will share stories and insights that will help you and your teams achieve new heights. If you believe there is strength in numbers and that meeting the challenges of the future can only be achieved if we do it together, then join us for the conversation. Our guest today is Clint Pulver. Clint is an Emmy Award-winning motivational keynote speaker, author, musician, and workforce expert. He's also the president and founder of the Center for Employee Retention. Clint's new book, I Love It Here: How Great Leaders Create Organizations Their People Never Want to Leave, is a must-buy for managers and employees. Oh, he's also a drummer.

Lynn Pulver, welcome to the show. We are so excited to have you here. You know, I remember being— I think it was, I was tagged on a post that Dr. Diane Hamilton, uh, you know, was really saying, hey, you got to get this guy on your podcast. And of course, I, I like to listen to whatever she has to say, so we, we tried to get that book. So we're so happy you could join us.

I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me on the show. This is a treat.

So You have a new book that's just come out, which we're really excited about. And what a great title. I love it here. Right. And we'll get into about the book in a bit. But I would love to just get a sense of your story. And actually, what was fun was going through your website. I can't help, and I'm sure you've had to repeat this 1,000 times, but our listeners may love to hear the story about Mr. Jensen and the impact he had on your life. And I'm sure maybe we can all think of the Mr. Jensens that we may have had in our own lives. And, you know, but But why don't you share that with us a little bit?

So I was the kid growing up that always had a hard time sitting still. I still have a hard time sitting still. I would just tap. I would move. My right hand would go, my left hand would tap. And obviously, if you're sitting in the classroom, that gets pretty annoying fairly quick. Everyone called me the twitcher. I got nicknamed the tapper. The teachers would constantly tell me, young man, sit still. Young man, stop tapping. Young man, I need you to— you know, sit on your hands. And I had one teacher, and his name was Mr. Jensen. And he'd been teaching for a long time. He looked at me as I was tapping in class. And he said, young man in the back. He said, Clint, I need to talk to you. We're gonna have a conversation. I need you to stay after class.

And you thought you were in trouble, right?

I'm like, I'm getting kicked out of school. It's a world record. And all the other kids are like, oh man, Switcher's gonna die. Like, you don't want to stay after class. The bell rings, everybody leaves. He motions for me to come over and sit down. He pulls up a little chair and he said, listen, Clint, you're kind of the kid that's on the list. You know, you tap in my class and you tap in everybody else's class. Everybody deems this problem your inability to sit still. And he said, I, I've watched you though. He says, it's crazy. You'll start writing, doing your assignment with your right hand. And then you'll tap with your left hand, and then you'll switch the pen and you'll start writing with your left hand and you'll tap with your right hand. And he looked at me and he said, I think you're ambidextrous. And I'm like, no, I'm Presbyterian. He said, no, he said, no, he said, he said, can you tap your head and rub your belly? I gave it a go and I could do it. And he said, so, okay, instead of tapping your head, can you rub your head and then tap your belly? And literally, without thinking about it, I could do it. And he sat back and he looked at me and he smiled and he said, I don't think you're a problem. I just think you're a drummer. And some people hear that and they go, what's the difference between those two things? I believe, I believe in the power of moments. I think that some of the greatest leaders in this world, the ones that we truly remember, are the ones that create moments. Why? Because we don't remember days, we remember moments. And in that moment, Mr. Jensen, the old teacher, he leaned back in his desk and he opened up the top drawer and he reached inside and he took out my very first pair of drumsticks. And he put them in my hands and he said, Clint, I have no idea what's going to happen, but I just want you to keep them in your hands as much as you can. And that was 20, almost 23 years ago. And I, My life changed from that moment, and for 23 years I've had the opportunity to tour and record all over the world as a professional drummer. I've been on America's Got Talent. I've toured with the Blue Man Group, Carrie Underwood, Tim McGraw. I graduated high school and I had no idea what I was going to do when I was growing up. Like, what do I do? And I ended up going to college. I graduated in 2012 with a bachelor's degree and zero college debt. Zero debt. And that was all from music scholarships.

Yeah.

And, you know, and I don't say all that to go, wow, good for you, Clinch, or what a list of accolades. It's because of one person, one person who decided to create a moment of advocacy as an educator, not just develop a student. And so it changed everything.

And he decided to look deeper. Um, and this was just, uh, you know, really incredible. As I mentioned to you before we got on the show, it reminded me of that story that, um, Sir Ken Robinson told in that famous Miss Ted Talk about creativity where he talked about Gillian Lynne. This is back in the 1930s. She's 7 years old and she couldn't sit still in class, and the mom brings her to a doctor to find out what's wrong with her. And after a number of conversations and leaving her in a room alone with the radio on and looking through, I guess, a two-way glass, and you could see that she's just moving, um, he said, there's nothing— your daughter is not a problem, she's not sick, she's a dancer. And, and it was that incredible moment where instead of giving her medication, when instead of making assumptions, or when someone doesn't conform with whatever thing that you have in your head, to just ask questions and find out what's behind all this. And to me, that's— I think we have that opportunity with one another all the time. And I, I relate this in so many respects to your book, because when we think about leaders and creating these environments, and which we all, not just leaders, but we all create for one another, this idea of I love this place and I want to be at a place where I, I love to work there and I feel belonging. I'd love for you to walk us through some of, you know, some of your thoughts from the book around that and what that feels like for you and why you decided to take the approach of really bringing the perspective, you know, which makes perfect sense right? But yet it's too little done, right, in terms of getting the perspective from the actual employees about what they feel and what they like.

Yeah. So 5 years ago, I was a part of a mastermind group. We were in New York City meeting with CEOs, executives, other business leaders in that, in that city, right? The hustle and bustle of New York is kind of a great opportunity. One of the guys that we met with owned a sporting goods retail chain right in downtown Manhattan. We're in his store, we're talking about his business, his business strategy, and how they've had to change over the years to adapt to a marketplace that's always changing as well. And I'll never forget, he had this thick New York accent and he said, you got to adapt or you're going to die. If you don't adapt, you're going to die in business. I agreed with him. I said, I get it, you've got to adapt. And then I said, what about your management style? Have you had to adapt how you handle people versus how you handled people 20 years ago? And he fired back and he said, nope, no need to change. And we get results. And it was a, it was, it was a complete bipolar response to what he had said about his strategy, right? Felt the need to change strategy, no need to change how he managed people. And the world changes and people have grown up in a different world today than it was 20 years ago. But there was no need for adaptation. And I looked around and all of his employees were my age or younger. All millennials, Gen Z employees. And I just thought, I said, hmm, I wonder, I wonder what they would say. I wonder if they would have the same idea, the same perception as he had. So I thanked him for his time. We had 35 minutes to kill until I needed to be to the next place. I had nothing else better to do. So I walked up to the first employee I saw. And I looked like this. I had a backwards hat on, I had a hoodie on, and I just casually walked up. I was a customer. And I just said, hey, I'm just curious, what's it like to work here? And the employee got super quiet, looked around. I felt like we were doing an illegal exchange.

Exactly.

And he said, do you really want to know? And I said, yeah, I'm just— I'm genuinely curious. He goes, I cannot stand it here. He said, I literally feel like I'm a cog in the wheel. We're all cogs in a wheel here. He's like, we clock in, we punch in, we punch out. He said, I don't even think my manager knows I'm here right now. And I said, well, then why are you working here? And he said, I've already applied to 3 other places. As soon as I get a chance, I'm gone. I thought, okay, maybe the kid's having, having a bad day. Maybe he just woke up on the wrong side of the bed. So I went and asked another employee and another and another. Long story short, out of the 35 minutes I had, I interviewed 5 of his staff— excuse me, 6 of his staff members. And at the end of those conversations, 5 out of the 6 of his employees said they would not be working for this guy in his store in less than 3 and a half months. The toxicity running through that organization was unbelievable, and the reality of the employee experience versus the perception of leadership could not be more different. And that was another moment in my life that I thought, man, what if the CEO could hear this? Because he has no clue. And that was the day that I started the Undercover Millennial program. And we have been doing this for over 5 years. We've worked with 181 organizations in undercover. I've interviewed over 10,000 employees as the Undercover Millennial. What I realized is I created an environment where employees could speak their truth. They could actually open up to me. I wasn't a survey. I'm not a one-on-one manager meeting. I'm just another millennial. And unfortunately, most managers have no idea they're doing poorly because there's no incentive for an employee to speak their truth. I don't want to be blacklisted. I don't want to be hated. I don't want to be the dramatic one. So they just keep quiet. And then they leave 4 months later. And the manager has no idea, right? But it is the manager. Managers have so much of an impact. And And when an employee hated their job, they talked about the manager. But when an employee loved their job, they talked about the mentor. And that was the magic of all of the research. It wasn't so, so much, you know, fun going in undercover. And when an employee was dissatisfied, that wasn't the magic. The magic is when I would go in looking for a job into an organization, and I would say, hey, I'm just thinking about applying. What's it like to work here? And they would respond with, I love it here.

Is the manager, from your perspective, the person who cares about the work and the mentor is the person who cares about you?

Yes, yes. And it's also to not be confused with leadership. Nobody talked about a leader. Like, leadership was not the emphasized point when an employee was fully engaged. Now, leadership— the traditional definition of leadership would be the person that stands in the front and leads. You have the vision, you're, you're making sure that the ship is getting where to where the ship needs to go. Management is making sure that there's no leaks on the ship, we're efficient, we can get through the water, we can move there quicker. But the mentor is the person that's taking care of everybody on the ship. Mentorship, we learned, was so powerful because it cannot be given. Mentorship could only be earned. That's why it was so powerful. It was a little voluntary, voluntary contract calling that an employee would seek out and deem this type of a manager because of who they were. You could not become a mentor until the mentee invited you into their heart. And when that was achieved, It was powerful. That's what employees talked about. That is who employees worked for. That's who employees would leave another company for and chase somebody over to another organization with less pay, not as great of benefits, because they were a mentor. And I would walk in and I would say, so why do you work here? And people would be like, ah, Susie. I stay here because of Susie. Who's Susie? I go to the next person. Why have you stayed for 15 years? Ah, Susie, man. We stay here. Susie's amazing. Why? Why? And when I would see these individuals that would emerge, these mentors, every mentor had 5 characteristics. And I think it's something that in leadership, it's worth looking into. It's worth understanding. If you lead people, this is also a great insight into parenting. It's a great insight into relationships. I call these the 5 C's of mentorship. Number 1, these managers, these leaders had confidence. It's the first C. They were confident in themselves. They were confident in their ability to get somebody to where they wanted to go. Remember, great mentorship is about connecting people to their dreams. I want to mentor with you. I deem you a mentor because you can advocate for me. You are somebody that will help me get somewhere else. Every great story has a mentor, right? Luke Skywalker had Obi-Wan. Simba had Mufasa. Aladdin had the genie.

Rocky.

I love, I love, uh, I love Rocky. Rocky had Mick, right? These great mentors that, because of who they were, allows the hero to live a better story. And so confidence was number one. You've got to have confidence. Number two, the second C was credibility. What's your background? What's your resume, right? You might be the car dealership sales manager, but have you ever sold a car? I want to know your history. The third C is competence. Are you a practitioner or are you a theorist? It's a big difference between those things. You might know everything about the game of basketball, but can you get out and actually shoot a hoop? Are you in the trenches practicing the thing that you're, you're teaching, or were you a guru 20 years ago? That's not true competent mentorship. You're actually in the world doing the thing which you're training or connecting others to do. And the fourth C is candor. Candor. They had the ability to create relationships so strong that honesty could exist. I want to mention where someone's going to give it to me straight. It's like the bank account theory, right? They put deposits of trust into a relationship so much that they can make those withdrawals. They can have those candid conversations. And it's through candor that we found, you know, there was almost a sense of loyalty that came from that. They're going to give it to me straight because they care. And that's the last C. The fifth C is the ability to care. If you look at your life and any great mentor either of you have ever had, I guarantee they had all 5 of those C's or you would not have mentored with them. It was the combination, the formula, behind how these great leaders yielded loyalty, influence, respect, and the ability to just turn an organization into a place where people were just surviving, but they were thriving because they had a mentor. And that mentor was connecting them to their dreams. Mentorship versus management will always win.

Have you found in your research that mentorship doesn't depend on having a management title?

Correct, it does not. Lateral mentorship was also a very important thing, like peer-to-peer mentorship was, was critically important, and that could be earned. There was many times we would find that the employees, certain employees, were more of the mentor than even the boss, than the actual boss was. Because they possessed more of those 5 C's than anybody else. Yeah.

Would they hang on? Would they hang on if they really enjoyed the people that they worked with, even, even if the boss wasn't quite what he or she should have been?

Yes, sometimes, but usually no, because the boss would have such a demeaning effect on the workplace that it wasn't worth the friendship of the 3 or 4 colleagues that you had. I mean, Yeah, leadership is still the number one reason why people left. We found those four types of managers in every organization. And if an employee was either satisfied or dissatisfied with their job, I could narrow it down to two variables that we saw. And again, all of this research is coming through the lens of the employee. That's why this is so different. This is not another leadership book written by a self-proclaimed leadership expert. That's not what this is. This is research based based off of 10,000 employees who knew when their leaders were getting it right. And so those two variables were standards and connection. So the expectations of the organization, the standards of the manager, the ability to get the job done, to stay productive, to stay profitable. But the connection piece was the empathy, the ability to connect with somebody. The first manager is what we called the removed manager. They're low on standards and they were low on connection. So this created complete disengagement. Why should I show up on time? My manager could care less. Why should I work hard? I don't even think my manager knows who I am. He, you know, the manager doesn't care what you did on the weekends. The manager doesn't care about your family. The manager's just burnt out. They're tired. And so they don't manage. They're removed. So it creates disengagement. The second manager we found, is the buddy manager. This was the manager that was really high on connection, low on standards. So they wanted to be everybody's friend. Now, this, this was the manager that would go and play Xbox on the weekends, and then on Monday morning tried to make sure everybody was, was doing their work. It's like, Frank, come on, this doesn't work. I saved you in Call of Duty over the weekend. Come on. That really happened. And so this would create a sense of entitlement. Where you would have, again, the employee becoming more of the boss. So, so then we jump into the third manager, which is the controller. This is that old school type of management, the guy that just says, put your head down, go to work, don't complain to me. Do you know how we used to have to work 20 years ago? Uphill both ways. I don't want to hear your whining. I show you that I love you because I give you a paycheck, right? Put your head down, go to work, be glad you have a job. So they're really high on standards. But they're low on connection. So what did this create? Rebellion. These are the managers that were constantly wanting to go toe-to-toe with everybody instead of shoulder-to-shoulder. But the fourth manager is that mentor manager. They were high on standards as much as they were on their ability to connect. So what did this create? Respect. Respect. They weren't always liked, but they were respected. And it was a beautiful thing to see how managers would rotate between those 4 different individuals. But the goal was to always become that mentor-manager. And it had a powerful effect on employees.

So Clint, just as a thought, because I realize you had just a brief time to give us kind of the definitions of the 5 C's, but I guess there is a 6th C that immediately popped into my head. And I'm wondering where you think it fits in your 5. And that would be character. When I think about, you know, what that means in terms of— maybe that fits into credibility, maybe it fits into caring. I mean, I guess you could, but, but it would seem to be, um, in there somewhere, right? This idea that someone had just, just this kind of impeccable character in some respects, right? That, that you had that level of trust, you had all of these kinds of things.

Yeah, I, I think that almost all of those 5 C's is what builds up your character. And your character is going to be deemed off of your credibility. Can you care? Are you an honest person? Are you confident in your character and your ability? Like, you're really— you're truly right. It is who are you as a character? What is your individuality? What ethics and values and what do you deem to be important? And some people have poor character, right? And they attract poor types of mentorship. I would almost add a 6th C that we found, and this would not be something you would want, but it's something that's prevalent, is callousness. Callousness. People that were just toxic and mad and burnt out. And you put a hard-to-catch horse in a field with an easy-to-catch horse, you're going to end up with 2 hard-to-catch horses. You put a child in the room with a healthy child, you end up with 2 sick children. And too often, so many people were put into management positions because they just needed to be promoted. They were good employees and the company had no idea what to do. And so they just put them into management. And that does not make you a good manager. And that's far too often we found people that were just calloused, burnt out, had no desire to connect, to advocate, to mentor, to build relationships.

So on the path to being a better manager, better leader, and having these 5 C's and being a person of character that people recognize and respect. For leaders out there now who may feel that they don't really know what's going on in their companies, they don't really know how their employees are feeling about things, and maybe the simple question is ask them, but I think the answer is ask them, but at the same time, there's got to be a way to get this information out, particularly if they don't feel safe talking, right? So how do you How does the leader find out what's going on in their company so they can really make change, assuming that that's really what they care to do?

Yeah, you bring up a great point because it's always that how-to. How do we do this? I am claiming this right now. We did research during COVID-19. We worked with 47 organizations during the pandemic. And I saw some horrific, horrific things that were done to employees during a time of chaos. I also saw some beautiful things that were done to employees, and I am calling it right now, in Q3 and in Q4 of 2021, we will see a massive exodus of employees leaving their current jobs. Why? Number one, they remember how you treated them during the pandemic. There are people right now that are just waiting to get out as soon as we, we pull through this. And we're pulling through this pandemic. And as soon as other things kind of shake out and the availability, availability and certainty comes back to some degree, we will see a huge job churn happening. Number 2, they've had time to think. A lot of employees have had time to think and they realize, my gosh, my job doesn't look like it used to in 2019. Or they're thinking, I can work in New York City and live in Colorado. That was never an option before. I can, I can work in San Diego and live in Utah and save, and save 3 times the rent, right? Like, it's given everybody a time to think. And so how do we figure out what employees want? I came from the medical field. That was my background before I jumped into this. And I worked in the operating room as an orthopedic specialist. And one of the things that the doctors would always call out during surgery is, can I get a status check? I need a status update. Give me a status check. What they were really asking is, what are the vital signs of the patient? Everybody, we've got 4 vital signs: a heart rate, respiratory rate, body temperature, and blood pressure. Those 4 vital signs determine whether you're living or dead. Employees have vital signs. Your organization has vital signs. It's a living, breathing entity. The vitals determine treatment, and then we look at the vitals, we treat the patient. Then after you treat the patient, then what do you do? You recheck the vitals and you treat again. We recheck— you continue that cycle until healthy stability is maintained long term. I advocate and recommend to every leader right now, you go and you find your all-star employees. Who are your top 5? Your employees that if they left yesterday, you would be put in a hard spot as an employer. Sit down with them and conduct what I call a status interview. It is— this is not a stay interview. This is not an exit interview. This is not a one-on-one management meeting. This is not a performance review. That's not time for any of this. This is a status check. You start the status check with vocal praise. This can be done casually. This can be done at lunch. This could be done in an office. It could be done over Zoom. And you just jump on the phone with Johnny and you say, hey, listen, Johnny, it's been a— what a year, right? It's been tough. We've hit obstacles. You have stuck with us. You have been amazing. You've been with the company for X amount of years. We love you. We love Jenny. We love the kids. And I just— I got to know. I got to know. And this leads into question number 1. What can I do to keep you here? What can I do to keep you here? Most employees in their whole working professional careers are never asked that question. And I think it's because managers are afraid to ask.

They're afraid of the answer.

Yeah, right. You know what, my goodness, well, what if you ask for a 20% raise? Or what if they ask for ski passes and more ping pong tables and free food? And we just can't do that. What if they just want a little more flexibility? What if they just want to move up in the company? What if they just really would like Mondays off? You have no idea, right? You have no idea. We've heard that age-old adage of, if you teach a man to fish, then you feed him for a lifetime, right? You feed the guy fish, feed him for a day. If you can teach him how to fish, then you feed him for a lifetime. Every time I hear that, I say, who said the guy wanted a fish? Who said the guy wanted a fish? I'm a steak guy. You know, sometimes we come in guns a-blazing. We feel like we know what people want. You don't until you ask them. But you're right. You know, you brought up a great point, Leo, creating an environment where they feel safe enough to tell you. Now, if they ask for something that you can't do, be honest about that. If they want a 20% increase in pay and you just can't do it, or they maybe haven't merited the effort to increase a 20% raise. Then let them know and say, we can't do that right now, but are there other options? Is there something else? And if they say no, at least you asked. So that leads to question number 2. Question number 2 is, what is getting in the way of your success in this organization? What's getting in the way? Is it, is it Becky in accounting? Is it your peers? Is it the pay? Is it the schedule? Is it what's getting in the way of you being able to thrive here? I just really want to know, because again, your job as a mentor is to block, is to advocate. How can I help you be more successful? And that's the third question. What can I do to help you get there? That's it. Those three questions. I believe every great all-star employee deserves to be asked those three questions. This week? As we come out of this pandemic and we enter into quarter 3 and quarter 4, if you don't ask those questions, how do you know how to treat your employees the way they need to be treated? And if they're not being treated the way they want to be treated, the world is changing and they will go and be treated better somewhere else.

So, Randy, Randy, Clint is speaking your language with regard to the whole whether you want to fish or not, uh, thing. That's part of your mantra in coaching, you know.

It's on my website, Clint, that, you know, people have defined consulting as give a man a fish or coaching, teach a man to fish. I'm like, I don't do any of that. At first, I want to know, how do you feel about fish?

Yes.

Good job.

I love it.

So I'm curious, Clint, can you quantify of all of these people that you talked with, I don't even know how to ask the question. The, the, the people that are getting it right versus the people that are getting it wrong, and how big is that, is that gap that we desperately need to close?

Yeah, so I interviewed over 10— it's actually now 10,647 employees that we have interviewed. Only 30% of those employees said, I love it here. Yeah.

That's higher than I would have expected, given my pessimism.

But yeah, yeah. And if you look at the, you know, stats of disengaged employees and unsatisfied employees, our research actually is a little bit higher. Most of it's like in the 20s to 25%. But still, I mean, we still have so much work to do. And, and, you know, I focused hard on all industries. I wanted it to be very broad. I wanted it to, you know, tech to fast food to retail to construction sites to the medical clinics. And I looked at some of the other past studies, and they're fairly niche in certain areas. And so I don't know. Yeah, yeah. So we're 30%.

That's 70%. How much of that do you suspect is Beyond the pale. I mean, point of no return, no way, no way to recover, you know, which is a horribly pessimistic way to look at it. But if you're a bit, if you're Mr. Sports sporting goods owner in Manhattan, I mean, that there's the desperate need. Yeah. I mean, he's in trouble.

Totally.

He's in trouble, whether he knows it or not, he's in trouble. If not now, then okay, Q3, Q4, he could be in big trouble.

Right.

So the economic impact of this in small to medium-sized business, especially, yes, it's huge.

Yes, it will. It will tank businesses. It's a, it, for some they look at it as a paper cut, but for others it's a flesh wound that will, that could literally kill them in a matter of weeks.

So what do you tell Mr. Manhattan?

I, it's, it's huge. Well, I would tell Mr. Manhattan, read the book, read the book, right? Get the book, read the book. I almost do. I found this as well. I would, I would tell Mr. Manhattan that, you know, do you have a coach? Right. Do you have a mentor? I found that those great mentors were always being mentored. All of them. All of them. Suzy became Suzy because she mentored with 3 other Suzies that were rock stars. The success bred success. Get help. Be teachable. I, you know this. You all know this. I've learned too that I can't control anybody. Right? So the pain is either going to get so bad that they're going to figure out, okay, I got to change something, right? And, and companies do the surveys, they do the company surveys, or, hey, do this personality assessment and let's figure out who you are. And I'm not, I'm not the biggest fan of those because most people don't answer 100% honestly on those. I feel like it's a massive tool for misdiagnosis, and then they wonder why they're still losing people. And, and The hardest— well, the coolest part about leadership is that it matters. The hardest part is that it matters every day. So consistency is key. And you're not going to change a massive culture of toxicity and a culture, you know, that, that 70%— a lot of those organizations are not going to just flip overnight. But if they figure out where to make small changes, right, you conduct enough status interviews where you approach people and you You're creating an environment where hopefully you're doing your best to make sure they feel safe so you can get some honesty. And then you figure out, OK, what do we need to start tweaking? What do we need to start changing and doing consistently to bring about some change? And every organization is going to be different. Some of them struggle with— I mean, they all— it's all different. There's no one-size-fits-all approach.

And not just about leaders reading the book. I refer employees to read the book. You know, for employees who may want to think about how might I bring about positive change in the organization from where I sit, what does that look like? If I can't, it's nice to know that 30% of the companies are doing it right, and I'm not just going to potentially, you know, trade one set of problems for another, which is why a lot of people don't leave. It isn't because they love it here, it's because the devil they know is better than the devil they don't. But I think it does give employees some tools and some things to think about in terms of their own situation. I You know, I work with students at Rutgers University, and we talk a lot about the fact that don't feel like you're a victim, you know, in terms of your career choices and where you can get jobs and all that. You know, you bring value, you bring a lot of things to the table here, and to take a little control over your own career. And I think your book can help employees really assess, you know, where they are and what they can do. Hopefully they can make change from within, but if they can't, they don't have to live and work in a situation where they don't love it here. In fact, they might hate it there. So, hmm.

Tell us a bit more about how you got into the methodology of this. That's an interesting detail of all this to me.

Like, like what specific methodology?

Well, of just of you going in to, to get this research, to get this intel. Yeah, that methodology is interesting.

It seems like that free 25 minutes that you had there kind of contributed a lot to it, right? When you told us at the beginning about like just starting to ask those questions and realizing the power of that.

Yeah, I just, I remember, I think a lot of it too came from my time in corporate America. I was asked all the time like, what can we do better for you? What can we do? You know, and like, and if I had a manager that I hated, I was never going to tell them that. I was never going to like say that face to face. There's no incentive there. And even on a survey, take the survey and fill out and tell us, you know, the things that your manager needs to change or things that we need to change. Like, I always play it safe. You know, they say it's anonymous, like put your email here. No, no, I'm not going to. I'm just not going to be honest. And again, there's some sense of an employee responsibility on that. I get it. Like, well, then how's the company supposed to be better? And there was just a gap. I realized there was a massive gap between the reality and the perception. And that's what inspired me to do this. And I remember I quit my job. I left my job in the medical field and I jumped into this world in the pursuit of 3 things. I call them the 3 Ps: passion, purpose, and the ability to provide. And I found when employees had those 3 Ps within an organization, when they could look at a company and they knew that You know what? They hired me because they— I love what I do. I have a sense of passion here. I can play to my strengths, right? They also felt like they were doing something bigger than themselves. The company, the organization was beautiful at telling a great story and allowing their employees to play a part in that story. And then number 3, they paid people fairly. They were able to survive and pay their bills. Those 3 Ps. I mean, it's really not that difficult. When you, when you simplify it down to that. And I, I left and pursued those 3 Ps, and I found that most of those employees, those 30%, in some way, shape, or form, they were living that. They were experiencing that.

We want you to tell people where they can connect with you, and we want to give you the platform to hawk whatever, whatever web real estate you'd like to hawk. But I got one last question. How many drumsticks have you given to kids and not as souvenirs?

Oh, a lot, a lot. That still to this day is my favorite audience. I call it the lion's den, the lion's cave. You can go and speak in a gymnasium for 45 minutes surrounded by 2,000 high school students, you can speak anywhere. They will eat you alive. That is the lion's cage, but they are also the most special audience. And when you give them a reason to connect, that's one thing I learned as well. Every employee is always asking you the question as a manager, let me know when it gets to the part about me. And some people hear that and they go, those entitled little shining stars in my life, right? And it's not about entitlement. It's about good business. It's about bringing humanity back into the workplace. And it's the same thing when I speak. Every kid is asking the question, let me know why I should care. Let me know when it gets to the part about me, and then I'll listen. And again, that's my job. That's your job as a manager. And when you can get to that point, it opens up the window of possibilities. And, you know, that rough, tough audience of high school students turns into friends and family and kids that are just incredible, and you see them differently. And yeah, giving kids drumsticks and kids coming up after and they have a visible disability or they're blind or they struggle to sit still or they have ADHD and they come up and they say, I'm you.

I'm you.

You know, I'm the kid that always is teased. I'm bullied. I'm the one everybody sees my problems. But I'm you. And man, you bet we give those kids a pair of drumsticks and whether they're a drummer or not. It's again about instilling hope, writing a great story. Mr. Jensen was just a great storyteller, not in the story he told, but in the story he helped students write. That's significant mentorship. That's powerful influence. So they can find the book on Amazon. You can preorder the book, type in— or actually, no, it's out. It's out now.

It's out now. It's out.

Look at that.

Uh, it happened fast. It's out.

It's out. Go on Amazon and type in I Love It Here. And, uh, you can also find out more information on my website at ClintPulver.com. And I'm on all the social media things as well. So I appreciate you both. This has been, this has been an honor for me to be on the show. And, uh, it's, it's, it's been a pleasure.

We appreciate you saying yes to us. He is Leo Battari. I'm Randy Cantrell. Guest has been Clint Pulver. You can find more about Clint and we'll put everything in the show notes over at the website leobattari.com. That's L-E-O-B-O-T-T-A-R-Y dot com. And we appreciate you, our podcast audience, whether you watch us on YouTube or whether you listen to us on all of your favorite podcast platforms. We appreciate it. Till next time, we'll see you. Thank you for joining us. To subscribe to the podcast and learn more about how you can engage peer innovation for your organization, contact us on the website at peerinnovation.co. Until next week, remember, the power of we begins with you.