Leo & Randy On Leo's New Book (Season 2020, Episode 7)

Welcome to the What Anyone Can Do podcast with Leo Battaglia and me, Randy Cantrell. This show picks up where our previous show, You're the Peer, left off, highlighting the simple truth that who you surround yourself with matters, and that if we enlist the support of others, give back to those who give to us, and pay it forward for the next generation, we can do anything. Author and keynote speaker Leo Battaglia and I talk with a diverse group of thought leaders who will share stories and insights that will help you succeed in business and in life. How? By doing the things anyone can do, but most of us never will. Welcome. It's another episode of What Anyone Can Do, the podcast. My name is Randy Cantrell, coming to you from a still chilly Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas, where the weather never changes. Leo Bottari, leobottari.com is the website.

He's in Southern California, sunny Southern California, you know, but a breezy, like 65 degrees though. So it's a little, little chilly for us here.

Actually, yeah, we've got the sun out today. I've had to close the shades so the webcam doesn't get all messed up. We've teased for a couple of episodes now. We know that you're working on this new book. We, we know enough to kind of know the theme of the book with all of this work that you do with peer groups and groups and team and that whole learning organization kind of stuff, but today we wanted to dive a little bit deeper into that work and not just as a teaser, but to provide the audience with some value today on some things that they can start to think about as we kind of move forward to the release date.

No, that's exactly right, and I think it probably is helpful if you think about it to You know, back when I was at Vistage and, you know, we're in the situation where in my view, we were trying to sell, you know, BMW to someone who didn't know what a car was. I thought, okay, and Leon and I had to get together, convince the board of directors and all that a book that wasn't a hardcover brochure about Vistage, but something that took an overall look at the category of peer advisory groups for CEOs, key executives, business leaders, and all that was really worthwhile because It was just astounding to us. Take Vistage even out of the picture. But when you look at all of these groups that go on here in the US and around the world, still, I mean, a minuscule number of CEOs and executives participate in these groups, and yet they're so incredibly effective. So we're trying to bridge that. Like, why is that? You know, what is it about? And we just kind of felt like giving it some narrative, um, what was helpful, which is where the term peer advantage came from. It was this idea of, well, peer influence, everyone knows and everyone gets it. But what these peer groups do is more than peer influence. It becomes peer advantage, but not in a way that's just kind of a catchphrase. There's something real about it when it comes to being more selective, strategic, and structured about the people we surround ourselves. And when we do that, we can actually gain peer advantage for ourselves and others. Of course, that led to our doing the Year of the Peer podcast for a year, which was amazing, right? Didn't we have the most incredible guests on that show? It was just so much fun. Every one of them, of course, telling us that as successful as they were, they certainly didn't do it all by themselves. They even laughed at the notion of that. In most cases. And, you know, I think where the conversation continued to go over and over again was, A, it wasn't just about our peers. It was about the whole circle of people who surround us, our parents, our teachers, our mentors, kids, you know, all of that. And also that it isn't just about monthly meetings. It was, you know, really taking a hard look at doing a better job of enlisting, engaging the people around us each and every day. You know, how do we do that? How do we make a habit out of that? How do we do that for ourselves and do it for others? And which is where obviously What Anyone Can Do came from. You know, the idea that if it's true, if Joe Henderson is right, that a lot of the successful people aren't successful because they can leap tall buildings in a single bound, but they just do the things anyone can do far more often than most of us, I, I thought it was a simple leap to make that said, hey, if you surround yourself with the right people, you'll do those things that anyone can do far more often. So as that was taking place, kind of concurrent with that in many respects was a, a self-assessment workshop that I developed from the Power of Peers that I'd been conducting with CEO peer groups and cross-functional work teams, largely with Vistage groups actually in the US. US and Canada and the UK, and how much we were learning, not only that advanced the content and even shaped the, the 5 factors that we talked about in the original book a little more, but constantly seeing the relevance to high-performing teams and what it meant to high-performing teams. And the more that we worked with cross-functional work teams, the more that it became just such a great fit. And the thing that you start to think about is, okay, if peer advantage is what you get, what is realized? And this is where the term peer innovation really came from. It's the idea of people coming together and not only coming up with great ideas and all that, but being able to implement those ideas, right? So the difference between creativity and innovation is kind of creativity realized, is And I think once you get great groups and great teams that make what they do applicable because of their collective involvement together and because they have an ability to see the whole as opposed to just seeing things in parts, that, um, it was a great way to think about how to get functional work teams to work toward an actual benefit that's sustainable, that can drive growth going forward. So And so this third book, you know, is something— and again, these things kind of just evolve, you know, in terms of kind of where the content takes you at a certain level and where people and conversations take us, whether it's through this podcast or whatever. But the working title at least is Peer Innovation, and it's the art of shaping our future together. And I think for a lot of people, when they think about— and we've had you know, guests on our show who've talked about AI and what we need to think about with that. Is it something that we should be scared of or something we should be excited about in terms of working with? Is it something that is going to take jobs or create jobs? Is it, you know, and what if computers can do all these amazing things, what's the role of people in the workplace and what does that look like? So I think when you consider what teams are able to do and what they're able to create together, I think it makes us formidable in terms of, and a good partner for AI and what we'll all be able to accomplish together going forward. So that's really where we're looking at companies today that need to take a hard look at taking their A-players and be able to turn them into an A-team that's capable of the kind of peer innovation that I think is going to be necessary to surviving and thriving in the future. So that's kind of what we're doing.

The theme of the work, it seems to me, and you and I, now that we've become friends and collaborators, at least in the podcast, the theme that has emerged in, and I know you're going to speak to this, especially at the outset, of the new book is that whole movement from me to we. Talk a little bit about the evolution of your own learning of just that theme, that phrase.

Yeah, I think, so first of all, it definitely started in school. We talk about our experiences when we're kids in school where we're shielding our papers from the other kids and it's kind of a one-on-one relationship with the teacher and it's what you can remember and what you're tested on. And it was very much a solo pursuit. Um, fast forward for me going to graduate school. Next thing you know, I'm part of a learning team where the instructors realize that there's a lot of intellectual capital in the room with experiences that they can bring to the table and they can share with one another that actually make the learning stickier. So once they kind of unleashed the power of people there, and once you know, even for myself, how you get used to being part of a team as opposed to just being responsible for my own work, uh, was a real learning experience. But once you bridge that gap, um, and you realize, wow, um, I learned more, I retained more, I understood more, I helped others do the same. Uh, it became such a win-win that again, this journey from me to we starts to become really clear. In terms of the benefit we can all receive when we kind of understand that particular concept. So, you know, again, I'm really excited about it. You know, one of the things for this book, I guess similar to The Power of Peers where we had Rich Kallgaard who wrote the foreword, and then We had Sam Reese, who's CEO of Vistage, write the afterword on that book. There actually is gonna be a forward and afterword to this book, but for very specific reasons. Jeffrey Hayslett, who's the CEO of CEO and C-Suite Network, has agreed to write the forward, which I'm really excited about because I don't know anybody in the last several years who has done more to really bring people together and not just get them to connect, but also really to follow through on those connections to make sure things are really happening. And he is really on a mission to make a difference in the world by getting people to understand how powerful and important it is, uh, to work together. So I think him setting the stage for this content and what it can mean for companies going forward, I think is really helpful. Um, by the same token, uh, Thomas, um, Anglero is the Nordic, um, Director of Innovation for IBM. And Thomas and I met when I spoke at the Executive Growth Alliance summit in Oslo. And, you know, what was amazing was here's this guy and you think he's going to be talking all AI and technology and all that. And he spent 95% of his time talking about human beings and about what we bring to the table and how we need to think about, you know, the next 10 or 20 years. So if you think about what a foreword does, it kind of sets up the content. What the afterword says is like, okay, now what are you going to do with it? And I think he's the perfect person to kind of bring this notion of people and machines together in terms of how we, how we think, what mindset we'll have, and how we're going to organize ourselves going forward, uh, so that We're all getting the most out of one another.

And we had both of these gentlemen on Year of the Peer podcast. So we'll put links in the show notes. Just go to L-E-O-B-O-T-T-A-R-Y, leobottari.com. And if you click on that content tab, it'll take you to all the podcasts. So you'll be able to find this episode in the show notes. Yeah, we'll link up those shows with Jeffrey and Thomas, uh, two separate So we had Tom—

Thomas was on What Anyone Can Do, I think.

What Anyone?

Yeah. So Year at the Pier was, was Jeffrey for sure. But, um, yeah, Thomas would have been more, um, recent. But, you know, same thing we did together, so it's all good. Yeah, they were both—

they were both— they were both good shows, and they both got— they both got high, high skills. You know, Jeffrey is, uh— Jeffrey has skills that I envy. He has skills that I absolutely do not have. You know, he is this super big personality and extrovert, and yet makes people feel, you know, comfortable, you know, not off-putting. And yeah, man, I mean, the guy is an absolute— you hear the phrase bantered about super connector, but boy is he.

I think he's an amazing combination of someone who's fearless and generous. Um, you know, in real— just simultaneously. I mean, he's, he's that guy. And, uh, he was all about, yep, he's on board. He wanted to write the foreword of this book. Uh, Thomas, uh, you know, enthusiastically, um, you know, responded in the same way. And, uh, it's really exciting. But I can definitely offer some, you know, preview into what, you know, the book is about because You know, basically the manuscript should be completed by the end of March. So obviously, the kind of, as we talked about, the architecture of the book is pretty much done where, you know, it'll begin really with an introduction talking about a shift of mindset, how we need to think about things going forward versus maybe the way things have been. You know, I'll spend chapter 1 just talking about where peer innovation came from. Kind of the evolution of how you get to this place where you kind of understand that, again, peer innovation isn't just a catchphrase. It's actually a product of something that is real. And when we start thinking about it in that way, I think it can help us realize that there is a real tangible outcome to understanding peer influence and peer advantage and what they are. And that I think it's kind of a good part of the trilogy, if you will, when you think about those three concepts. Chapter 2 just gets into talking about each of the five factors, but in a way that they've evolved so much over time. You know, really talking about the right people. I mean, what does that really mean? You know, what does that look like, both in terms of everything from the purpose and the values we share to how we're different and how we can see and recognize the best in one another so that we can work together and be really effective at that and bring things to the table and know that there were my teammates that bring things to the table that I simply don't have and vice versa. And that we're all there for a reason and that, as Angela Meyers says, we all matter, right? The psychological safety, piece of this is certainly advanced from the perspective of bringing forward, and I think it's very consistent with a lot of the research that Google has done as part of its Aristotle Project. And the idea of the whole is greater than some of its parts, right? Which is the whole reason for the name. And looking at psychological safety, not only from the perspective of willingness to be vulnerable, in building trust, but also that it's OK to openly challenge one another with a recognition that it's all about making the work better, not about anything else, right? That we start trusting others' intent around those kinds of things, and that when we do so, we can do some amazing things. And we've talked about examples of teams who do that extremely well. Who create just amazing work because they continue to dig in, challenge one another, and realize that the more they do that, the better the work becomes. And then at the end, they all celebrate together realizing that they've all just created something that no one in that room ever could have done by themselves, no matter how smart they are, because there's just all of what was contributed from everybody's perspective just helped. The issue of productivity, how do we maximize productivity? How do we unleash and unlock? We'd love to set up rules and boundaries and all kinds of things that oftentimes we think give us more control over productivity. And in fact, they often hurt people's ability to be productive. So again, if you get the right people who really trust one another, are willing to take risks, and willing to do the kinds of things that they know can help push the envelope, if you will, you can drive productivity to a place that most people don't really ever get to. Fourth, and I think I've kind of shifted this over time, although it's always been kind of part of the language, but I think kind of officially shifted from this notion of accountability to personal responsibility. Playing off the whole Pasi Sahlberg being the former director general of the school system in Finland, who basically said that there's no direct translation for the word accountability in the English language. And that when we start thinking about— and the reason for it is because from their perspective, accountability is one of what you're stuck with after someone's sense of personal responsibility gives way. If we actually get people to not feel like they're on defense and that we're holding them accountable, but that we are their partner, and in understanding that they take incredible pride in their work, they're incredible pride in themselves as professionals, that their currency with everyone else in that room is always to bring their A-game, and that's how they show up, then they have a higher expectation level of themselves, and often we may even have them. Now we can continue to challenge them and support them, I think as good coaches and good leaders do. But I think doing it from the perspective that we're on the same side of the table as opposed to the opposite side of the table, I think is a real key. And I think makes everybody feel a heck of a lot better about everything. And then finally, on the leadership front, again, this ability to be that servant leader and be a steward of the 4 factors that we talked about prior to that can be essential to creating context. You know, I always go back to Robert A. Thompson's book, The Offsite, where the metaphor for leadership in that book wasn't the hotel manager or the CEO or the concierge or somebody. It was the groundskeeper. And it was so great because the groundskeeper was making sure that every piece of life that that groundskeeper was responsible for on that property was growing in the right spot, that it had enough sunlight, that it had enough water, that it had everything it needed in order to flourish. And I think when we think about people and making sure they're in the right spot, uh, in the organization, or that right seat of the bus, as Jim Collins likes to say, and that we are making sure that they're getting what they need to be successful and we can be providing their support for that. It's just a really powerful way to unlock, I think, what teams are really capable of. And it'll be 8 chapters. Chapter 7, we'll get into common challenges. I want to go through each of the 5 factors and basically say, oh yeah, you can paint this picture of what this looks like, but now let's talk about the reality of what can get in the way of these things and how to think about them and how to address those challenges against each of the 5 factors and provide some tools to address them. And then Chapter 8 really is kind of the closing argument And as you had put it earlier, it's that journey from we to me, me to we. And it's this idea of taking everything we had learned and really making a compelling closing argument for what this is all about, only to be followed, of course, by Thomas Anglero's afterword, which I hope everyone reads the foreword and the afterword as much as they read the content. So that they really get a sense of context for going forward and what to do with this and how to act beyond hearing it from me. I think hearing it from, from Thomas and having his perspective on it is going to be really powerful. So, um, you know, I'm excited about it. I think things have come a long way. Obviously you've played a huge role in making that possible also, not just with the podcast, but in the many conversations we have had and the things that we're likely to do together beyond the podcast with this. But yeah, it's good stuff.

Our audience, we know there are a lot of leaders, there are a lot of CEOs and higher-level leaders that consume our content. And we greatly appreciate it. But you focus, because we've had countless conversations where you have focused about the difference. And let me pick up on just that fifth component here, that fifth idea of leadership. And you've made note that leaders aren't separate from the group but are part of the group. And I know in my own work, and you have admitted in some of your work, that that's a real challenge for some leaders because there is this we and them and kind of sticking with that theme of going from me to we, for the leader to include themself in that. I don't know, just comment.

I think it's, I think it's really crucial. You know, part of what I'm, I try to be careful about, it's why the Five Factors are presented as a framework, not a prescription. It's, I don't think it's up to me to tell somebody what the perfect team is for them or for their people or their industry or whatever there is they're trying to do. I do think though, the power of the framework is that it is so applicable to all in that regard. I think in the same token, when I talk about what at least I've seen, and since a lot of the research started with the Power of Peers actually back in late 2014, is this servant leadership model being incredibly effective? Is it the only way to lead? Of course not. But I do think that now commenting on your point that when you are a servant leader and you can be a part of the group or a part of the team, that doesn't mean you don't have the role as leader on that team. You do. But the idea that they see you part of it, the idea that from time to time you're going to roll up your sleeves and be right in there with them to do things, the idea that when you model behaviors as the leader because they consider you part of the team, it's an easier transition for them to make when they think, ha, those are the behaviors I need to model as well. Or when you respond to certain things, particularly in times of crisis, your ability to do that helps people engage one another more effectively. So I think when you are part of the team versus being apart and separate from it, personally, I think that that's powerful. And, you know, some people may be comfortable with that, not comfortable with that, and I totally get it. And it may not be for you, but, um, and there's no one way to do anything, but I would make a strong case that for most people, if you can accomplish that, I think it's a, it's a big help.

Well, I think the practical application that leaps to my mind is, is one that I in the past have been guilty of. You come in the office, you come to your place of work in the morning, you are the leader, or okay, you are the boss, and you aren't as mindful in that moment that you are part of the group. And your expression, your body language, you may pass by somebody and not say good morning, where under normal times you would, and their productivity for that day, maybe that week, is completely derailed. And all because you were just thoughtless. You just weren't as mindful that you are part of this and all eyes are on you and people are watching you and they're taking cues from you as the leader. And it's really super easy for us. We're in our head. We're, you know, we can be monomaniacs on a mission, as Tom Peters said, you know, that day we've got something on our mind and something very innocent can completely destroy morale and productivity. So I mean, to your point, but, but that seems to me part of the framework of everything is the mindfulness and the thoughtfulness and the intent behind it all, however people choose to incorporate that.

So let me share to that end, um, a story that I've never, uh, forgotten that speaks exactly to that point. So when I worked at Mullen, it's MullenLowe today, but Joe Grimaldi was the CEO. We were actually doing a presentation for the National Grid advertising and PR account basically for, and we were pitching them down in New York. And so we're in New York, we do the pitch, it went great. We actually won the business. We didn't find out till a week or so after. But anyway, we get done with the pitch and I think, and Joe had been part of that team and he delivered the closing argument basically and did it in such a way where I remember him, this is kind of an aside to the story, but I remember him distinctly saying to them, you're never going to get an agency that's going to care more about your business than we will. And I'm sitting there as an employee thinking to myself, He's probably right. I mean, because that's what that culture was. That's who he was. That's what this was all about. But here's what ended up happening. Presentation's over. Everyone shakes hands, does their thing. He gets a phone call, gets completely distracted by whatever was coming. There was some kind of thing that he had to definitely address. Well, sure enough, I get home. It must have been, because we flew back that night, it was probably And again, we were living in Boston at the time. It was probably about 11:30. And I remember seeing an email, and it was from him to everyone on the team apologizing for the fact that he failed in his role as chief encouragement officer and just wanted to let everyone know that win, lose, draw, whatever it happens to be, that this was an amazing day and a wonderful presentation and a most magnificent thing that everyone did and was part of. And how proud he was to have been on that team and to be part of that. Now, you don't forget that. It has an impact about how you feel about that guy for the rest of your life, that he took that effort to do that. So, you know, again, sometimes we can have those moments where we get distracted in some way or we can't help it or we can't do, but then instead of just letting that go by, to actually address it in the hope we noticed it to begin with, right? But to actually address it, there's nothing like the impact of that. I mean, it was extraordinary. And that's the kind of leader he was. I mean, I remember him also just talking about the next CEO and who that might be going forward. And, you know, it was years later before that happened. But the idea was that about someone earning the right to be in that position. And it wasn't about whether someone was good enough, not good enough, whatever, but did you earn the right to be there? And it made me think so often of different sports where there's a— classic example is like the Final Four, or I'll say the NCAA tournament, where you get the number 1 seed loses in the 3rd or 4th round. And you're thinking, man, that was the best team in the country, and now they don't get to play for the national championship. And you're thinking on national championship night, by that time, you've forgotten them. And it's in large part because they didn't— they were good, and they were great all season, but they didn't earn the right to be playing in that game. And the two teams that did earn the right to play in that game were there. And you're perfectly comfortable watching those two teams play for the national championship. I think it gives incredible perspective to us in that way, that as we participate on our teams, whether the leader on their team or the member, we've earned the right to be there. Now it's a question of, I want to earn the right and earn the respect of my peers and my fellow team members, my fellow group members, that I'm bringing value each and every day. And my expectation of them is the same.

There's a great— I watched it just this week— a great ESPN film. I realized it came out last August, and I'd never seen it. And it was The Team That Saved Coach K about Duke basketball. And it was that class of '80, mid-'80s, you know. And, you know, these weren't I mean, these— this was a top recruiting class, uh, when they were freshmen, and they never— they never got to the championship, you know. But Coach K— and, and they're all sitting around a table and they're showing films, and it's, it's, it's, it's powerful. Uh, I'll link up— I'm sure it's on YouTube somewhere. I'll put a link to it. But Coach K is sitting there, and here he is these many years later, and he was 10 years into his career at the time at Duke. Had not won anything ever. People were clamoring for his job. Everybody's like, he can't coach, he can't, he can't do it. But that class that made it to the semifinals— they didn't make it to the finals, they got eliminated. Um, and so you could say, well, they didn't accomplish anything. But he said, you know, the, the 5 national championships that he's won since— because for the next 12 years he did nothing but win after this group. But he— so was that him and their leadership to really help him build this culture that became Duke basketball?

Was that the year that— I think it was Bobby Hurley's junior year and they got just destroyed by UNLV in the final game? No, this was earlier than that.

This was, um, I can't remember his first name. Billis. He does, he does.

Oh, Jay Billis. Yeah, sure.

Jay Billis. It was Jay Billis's freshman class.

Oh wow, so it was earlier.

Yeah, yeah, so this would have been the class of— I'm thinking this was the class that graduated in '85 maybe, you know. So yeah, this was before, before that run that you're talking about. But it was interesting, they showed his record, his coaching record at the end of the film. They show his record before this class and then his record after the class, and his record after the class was like stupid crazy, right? 25 losses and a gazillion wins. I mean, it was this It was this pivotal moment, and I thought about you, and I thought about your work while I was watching this late one night this week. You know, I mean, here's a coach, he clearly is the coach, went to West Point, he's got this kind of a military edge about him, but he's not on the court, but he is on the court.

I mean, Bobby Knight disciple.

Yeah, he is, he is absolutely part of the you know, part of the team. And it was cool. It was cool seeing these guys, you know, these many years later. They're all 50 years old or older now. And these guys, you know, got really emotional. He got really emotional. And he says at the end of it, his regret is he didn't— he wasn't able to coach them in the championship game. You know, they absolutely deserved to be there because of all the things that they had contributed to his program.

And the great teams recognize that the team that is the team isn't the team that's just on the floor. It's coaching staff, it's the trainers. It's, I mean, it's you, you start really expanding that in a big way and understanding they all have a role in putting the people who are on the floor, you know, in a position to win. You know, speaking of teams too, as you well know, we are in the 40th anniversary of the 1980 USA upset over the Soviet Union in what, as you remember, the semifinal game, on tape delay, by the way, wasn't even shown live. And it was in Lake Placid, New York. And, you know, when you think about what I think most people would agree is the greatest upset in the history of sports, if you played that game 100 times, they'd have lost 99. But on that one night, Yeah, they just made it happen. And it was such an extraordinary, you know, thing. And I don't know if you ever saw the ESPN 30 for 30 that actually showed it from the Soviet Union's perspective about how those players had to come home and said, you guys lost to a bunch of students. What was that about? You know, oh yeah.

Not a good time to be in a communist country. Well, there never is a good time to be in a communist country.

But they also, kind of those players, one of the things they admitted was when they watched, they just said, those are the happiest people on earth when they watched the USA players at the end of the game. It says, we don't know that kind of joy anymore from winning. That's just, and I think it also speaks to no matter how good your team is and how often they win, particularly in business, and we take a lot of that for granted and we do what we do and it's our job and all that. The importance of celebrating that and making sure that people walk out of there feeling like they can walk through a wall, you know, because of what they're doing and what they're accomplishing, I think is so important. And for leaders to spend time making sure the teams celebrate their wins. And quite frankly, like in the case of Joe Grimaldi, and I used to do the same thing when I had my agency, where we'd do a pitch, we'd go out and celebrate before we knew anything. You've got to celebrate the effort. You've got to celebrate everyone coming together and doing something that's really excellent. And there's any number of reasons why you may or may not get selected for the business. But if you don't do it then and you find out you lose, then there is no celebration to be had. No one is in the mood for that anymore. So at that time when you've got everyone who's coming off the high of just doing it, it's like you go out, you enjoy that. Celebrate it. And, you know, there's just nothing in the world like it. And so hopefully part of what we'll talk about, of course, is— and we will in the peer innovation book— is the value and importance of celebration, because you're not going to have sustainable peer innovation without it.

Yeah, and we'll celebrate. We'll celebrate when the book comes out. If you want to know—

anyone reads it, right? Exactly.

You want to know more, you want to get on, get on the email list, and so that you can keep up with all this. Visit Leo's website, leobattari.com. That's L-E-O-B-O-T-T-A-R-Y. Peerinnovation.co takes you to the exact same place. Again, you can get all the podcasts. Well, the best way to do that is just to hit that subscribe button and subscribe. And we appreciate everybody who does that. And you can connect over at YouTube and all the social media links. We put those in the show notes of each post. I'm looking forward to the book. The other books are great. And I enjoy them. I catch myself going back and revisiting both books on a pretty regular basis. But I'm, I'm really excited for this book. And just to play whatever small part to be able to observe this from this distance is a very cool thing. So thanks for that.

Well, it's fun stuff. And in the, I think in the show notes there too, and in the links that we provide, I think if we if there's a link to that show, it's available on YouTube, that you talked about with Coach K. And I think, you know, you could watch the real ESPN, you know, SportsCentury, I think it is, on the US Olympic hockey team. Or you can watch Kurt Russell as he plays Herb Brooks in Miracle, and does a brilliant job. In fact, Al Michaels, they were interviewing him after the movie, because they do an interview now, right at the end of the film, because it's the 40 years. And Al Michaels just talked about how blown away he was, because if you see, he knew and spent time with the real Herb Brooks, which unfortunately, you know, died a few years ago. But he said he just nailed him. He said it was really, you know, pretty incredible. So that's a great movie that's For me, it's just hard to get through because it's such an emotional film, you know, in so many respects. So, it's great stuff. Anyway, that being said, let us, you know, we will see you next week. And, you know, join us again next time. Thanks.

Thanks. To learn more about our show and what we do, to submit questions to us, and to subscribe to What Anyone Can Do Podcast, please visit our website, whatanyonecando.com. What Anyone Can Do Podcast is hosted Hosted by Leo Bottari and me, Randy Cantrell. Music provided by Kevin MacLeod is Vibe Ace, licensed under Creative Commons by Attribution 3.0 license. Thanks for watching or listening. We hope you'll share the podcast.