Leo & Randy On Social Media Shares

Welcome to Peer Innovation, the podcast with Leo Battari and me, Randy Cantrell. Building on our previous shows, The Year of the Peer and What Anyone Can Do, we turn our attention to helping business leaders build high-performing teams. We'll talk with a diverse group of thought leaders who will share stories and insights that will help you and your teams achieve new heights. If you believe there is strength in numbers and that meeting the challenges of the future can only be achieved if we do it together, then join us for the conversation. We welcome you back to another episode. It's a, it's a late episode this week, but Leo and I've been, uh, we've been running around like chickens with our heads cut off this week. So we, uh, we welcome you back to a new episode of Peer Innovation. The website is peerinnovation.co. Uh, we encourage you to go over there if you have not subscribed to the podcast. Please do that. And, uh, one-liners, one-liners. Leo, you've been posting some stuff on social media. And as you and I were talking before we hit the record button, you know, so often we see things and we read things and these quips and these, these one-liners. And, you know, sometimes, sometimes they're intriguing, sometimes less so. And sometimes we have big question marks over our head, but we thought we'd take a deeper dive into some of these things you've been posting lately.

Yeah, you know, that they are more than just kind of a turn of phrase, you know, that they have real practical application and they really come from, you know, some deep experiences that I think we all share. And that's why I thought it might be nice. You know, we've got some great guests coming up in the coming weeks, as we've talked about. Tina Martini, intellectual properties attorney, who has a great podcast called Paradigm Shift, and also was a guest on the show, you know, a while back. Love to have her return just because she has such great insights. And I think particularly being part of a legal team, it's going to be some interesting, you know, opportunity to learn from her in terms of what that all looks like and how that works. So I'm very excited for that. Cheryl Terja coming from Adobe, who's obviously looking at how they kind of meet the challenges they have for clients in terms of remote teams working together and providing them tools and resources that make that even easier. And of course, there's one of my all-time favorites, Simon Alexander Ong, who I know will be on the show. He's looking— we're looking at September for Simon. And Simon is not only an amazing executive slash life coach, but also someone who really believes and understands thoroughly what mastermind groups are all about and the power of that. So it's going to be— we've got some good weeks coming ahead. But again, you know, in the meantime, you know, what a great opportunity for us to sit and chat about some of these social media shares that we've got and kind of what they mean and what they're about and invite some comments from our listeners as well. So there's like half a dozen of them we'll go through. The first one is really the definition, right? Peer innovation. And it combines the word peer, people like me, and innovation, creativity realized, which, by the way, I'd love to remember who wrote that originally because, and if anyone has any ideas on that, please write to us and let us know because I think I've never seen a more succinct and yet perfect definition of what innovation is all around about, right? It isn't just about ideas and creativity, it's about those ideas realized, those ideas operationalized and put into play for people and where there's real utility from it. But, you know, we think about— certainly I come from a background of environment in the PR and advertising agency business where there's just nothing in the world like getting groups of people who represent various subject matter areas and disciplines and expertise and all of that into a room to kind of figure out You know, not just for ideas from a creative standpoint, but in some cases things that have led to innovations about the way we do things. And, you know, it's just exciting stuff. And I'd love for people to kind of in their own minds to tap into what are some of those times where they were part of a group of team where you, where you work together and really created something that you really put, you know, to great use. I know in terms of Randy, your experience, I'm sure you've got a lot of examples or thoughts about what that looks like or what that has looked like for you in the past.

I mean, the first thing that kind of popped in my mind a good long while ago when I first heard you use that term, and obviously I'd never heard it before, the peer innovation part of it. And then when you explained that creativity, realized. The realization is a big, big component of it, right? Because I mean, it's execution. It's one thing to sit around. A lot of people have great ideas, but it's a— I don't know what the percentage is, but it's, it's rather small, the people that act on those, or even the ideas that might even be worthy of acting on them. So in my experiences, you know, some of the most creative things that I've been part of which weren't, you know, Elon Musk worthy, right? I mean, and I think sometimes we can put too much pressure on ourselves and think, well, that's, you know, it's something that the world, the universe has never seen before. And that'd be great and wonderful if you're in a space where you can do that. But for most of us, it's much more ordinary and mundane than that at a universal scale where we're just doing something that maybe our company, our team has never done before. And it's an ideal solution for the particular problem or opportunity that we face, but the execution, creativity realized, you can't, you can't. I don't think you can come up with the idea necessarily in a vacuum. You certainly, I haven't been able to come up with the best ideas. Sometimes it's the more people, the better to a point, I realize. But as you and I were talking a little bit earlier, having run retail companies and been in the service space most all of my career, those people that are actually toe-to-toe and belly-to-belly with the customers tended to have rather brilliant ideas that the brain trust, you know, we were, we were too stupid and too blind to, to see it, but they were dealing with issues every day and they're like, well, why don't we do this? And you're like, well, that's a great idea. But at the end of the day, people have to execute it. So I think of people, you know, I think of people, people coming up with the ideas and people that have the wherewithal to execute the ideas.

Well, when we think about what you're saying, you know, it isn't that people are stupid necessarily. They're only stupid in that they don't recognize that the people closest to the customer actually have the greatest insight into what may be valuable and what may work. And this is where when we talk today about organizations needing to be adaptable and all that, it's so critical that we trust and empower our people to make that possible. Otherwise, it just becomes a huge constraint. I remember, you know, when you mentioned retail, it just immediately pops into my mind the story and also this idea that it doesn't have to be like from the grand strategy, you know, it doesn't have to be like the senior leadership team going away on a retreat to the Greenbrier, you know, and and then come back and just impart their wisdom. One of my favorite stories was from a store management team that got together to solve an issue at their Walmart store in Crowley, Louisiana. And what the problem was, is they were literally, they were having really tough issues with theft. And people like walking out the front door with television sets and stuff like that, 'cause they just thought they could get away with it, and they were. Rather than install a lot of expensive security equipment, which they said would have, you know, may have deterred some of the, you know, criminals, if you will, but it also would have really sent a, you know, a tough message, a message they didn't want to send to all their great customers that they had. So what they did instead was, that was where the Walmart greeter was born. You know, the idea of let's put, you know, somebody who, you know, who was older woman or older gentleman in many cases over there just say, hey, welcome to Walmart and give you a shopping cart. Now this, by the way, was implemented in a culture where sales per man-hour and all this stuff. So the idea of someone in a lot of people's minds not doing anything, standing in the front of the store just saying hi to people, was like, what are you doing? Um, so anyway, they implemented this, all right? So it wasn't just a creative idea, it was operationalized in that store. And when Sam Walton and one of his senior executives came in and saw it, they were like, wow. And they obviously immediately got it. But the genius of Sam Walton, I thought at the time, was that he didn't say, okay, we're going to do this in our— they had like 2,000-plus stores at the time, even back then. We're going to implement this everywhere. We're going to make this an edict. Instead, he allowed the case for that to build. On its own and organically. So that it took almost 2 years before that actually happened, but then once it did, talk about not only did it deal with the issue of security in that store, but think about what that did with the Walmart brand for, I mean, years on end, right? The, the, and one simple idea created, you know, solved a big problem for that store and not only created solved it for many other stores, but created a larger opportunity for the company in general. And that's the kind of impact every one of us can have no matter where we sit in our organization. And I think people often need to recognize that we're not hired to do a job. We're not hired to fill a role or fill a position. We're hired to make a difference. And when we recognize that we have opportunities to do that, And oftentimes that happens is when we connect with other people and start having those conversations about how to make that difference. That to me is the essence of what peer innovation is all about and why. And by the way, that term originated in an article. Now, I'm sure other people have used it, but in this context, at least, the peer innovation I wrote in 2012. I, for whatever reason, you know, it was just part of a headline of an article I wrote back in 2012. And now, of course, it's found its way into the work today, but very much on its own. But anyway, interesting. Maybe peer innovation is a peer innovation in and of itself, right?

And the title of a forthcoming book.

There you go. That's right. Now, the next one, actually, which I just posted this morning, which basically says, as the leader, remember that you are part of the team, not apart from it. And this to me is one of those things that when I ask leaders, hey, do you see yourself as a part of the team or apart from it, it's usually around 50/50. The leader often sees themselves as separate from the team for whatever reason they believe that they've— that that separation, that distance, that It has to exist in some way, shape, or form. And yet I think time and time again, we learn that when you consider yourselves a part of the team versus apart from it, that allows you to do what Jim Kouzes, who, as you know, was an amazing guest we had on our show a few years ago, who, with he and Barry Posner, wrote The Leadership Challenge. And the first of the 5 exemplary leadership practices is model the way. And the most effective way to model the way for the people who are on your team is when you are a part of that team, when you're not separate from it. And so I think that has been particularly important. I see it all the time with peer groups, you know, whether it's Vistage chairs or in the case of EO or YPO, when you've got members who are facilitators, trained facilitators, but they are member-led. You know, in both cases, the best of them are very much a part of that group. They're not separate from it. Um, and I'm even asked sometimes, well, all right, what about like a coach of an NBA basketball team? You know, now they assume that the team is just the team that steps on the floor, but obviously the team that's responsible for what happens on the floor is much larger than that. And the leader of that team, whether you want to call it the ownership, the general manager, the coach, They're all part of that team. They have different roles. They're not lacing up their sneakers every night, I get that. But they're very much a part of that team and how they conduct themselves and how they behave. I know that, you know, there's a lot of folks that don't love the New England Patriots, right? Of course, I grew up there and, you know, I'm— like I said, when I grew up, they couldn't buy a football game and now all of a sudden everyone thinks they just win Super Bowls all the time, which they've had recent great success, that's for sure. But when you think about the way the culture is described, and that's the Patriot Way, and that's from the ownership through— I mean, it's all throughout the organization. You could argue that they haven't done everything right in terms of a lot of things. People are human, and they— whatever. But I think if you step away from that part of it and you just simply look at the work ethic, and you look at— and we'll get to another quote, I think, that will speak to that in a moment. You get a sense of what that culture feels like and how everybody lifts one another up as a result of that. That's because leaders are absolutely a part of that experience. They're not apart from it.

Those folks that, if the 50/50, and the 50 that feel like they're separate and apart from it, or I mean, what are the constraints for leaders? Because, I don't know. I'm cynical that some portion of that 50% that say, oh, we're part of it, may think, well, that's just the right answer. I don't know that they— you know, I mean, I wonder if they truly feel that way, because we get into these hierarchies and we put so much pressure, you know, on our position, our authority. I don't know. I'm curious, what are some of your insights that could help people that may, that may be a struggle for them?

So first of all, if they're, if they're giving that answer because they think it's the right answer, that's a good start. It is a good start. It's not a bad start. Yeah.

The minute I said it, I'm thinking about that just a little bit.

I think, I think fundamentally, if there's any way to just distill the difference, it's the difference between us and them and we. And in the end, your team wants to believe that you're in it with them, that you're not sitting in judgment of them, apart from them, saying, yeah, well, I did my thing, but yeah, you guys screwed this up. That you win and lose together. And I think that becomes a very essential part of why I think that becomes so powerful. And it's not necessarily my idea, of course. Again, when you look at Jim Kouzes and Barry Posner modeling the way, you look at the way a lot of people talk about leadership, it may be a slightly different way to frame it in terms of being a part of versus apart from. But I think fundamentally, it's a concept that's been around for a long time. And it's just, I think anytime, whether it's me or anybody comes up with a way, I think Simon Sinek's done a particularly good job with Being able to frame things in just a little bit of a different way where it connects with someone who that same concept is somehow it's never quite connected with them before. And if you do that for 1 person, 10 people, 1,000 people, whatever it happens to be, then at least from my perspective, I always feel like I did a little good, you know. And, you know, and that's kind of, I think, what we're all trying to do for one another in this regard.

You know, if you're a leader, there's little doubt the pronouns matter, right? I mean, the pronouns that you use even in your own head, and certainly the pronouns that you use with your team, it really matters. So that'd be my take. I mean, it's a great place to start, even if you don't fully buy into the process, to use we instead of me, right? To start.

So Let's go to the third one, which is basically an individual is simply no match for a group or team. So this plays out for me oftentimes. I try to use this example when I'm delivering a keynote, and I might connect with someone ahead of when I've got to go on stage. And I'll ask them, hey, would you mind if I kind of call on you? And they're not sure what it's going to be all about. But usually in the course of having talked with them, which is why I'm asking. I'll find out if they're a sports fan, who's their favorite team or whatever, right? So I'll find out that, you know, we'll keep in the Boston theme here, that I find out somebody's favorite team is the Boston Red Sox. Great. So what I'll ask them to do in front of everyone in the group basically is pretend that they're watching Game 7 of the World Series and that final pitch is thrown, the game is over, and the Red Sox have just won the World Series. That in that moment, in real time, I want you to respond to that as if you were at the game, sitting home in your living room, watching it on TV, whatever, the way you would, right? So of course the person is like, whoa, and they scream and they do their thing or whatever, right? Now they're super self-conscious about doing it, number one, as you might imagine, there's hundreds of people around them. But then, you know, obviously we ask everyone to give that person a hand for what they did. But then I say, all right, now think about the favorite team in your mind and ask everyone in the audience to do it at the same time. On the count of 3, Everyone erupts. So two things obviously happen. One, nobody feels self-conscious about it now because everybody's doing it, right? But secondly, you have hundreds of people do that thing, it blows the roof off the place versus what one person is able to do. What's interesting is when we go about our lives in business, personal, whatever it happens to be, we too often try to fill the room with sound all by ourselves. Versus just seeking out the assistance of others where we could do a whole lot more if we just have a little more help, right? And, you know, this is why I think, you know, at this point in time in particular, when we've got remote work teams and how essential it is for people to come together, and I think they really have. I think there's been tremendous strides around collaboration and, you know, as we've talked about. I think it's largely, it's that people are making a much more human connection with one another than they have in the past. It's not just about fellow employees and going to a central workplace. It's about recognizing that we're trying to do the best we can for ourselves, for our families, for our coworkers, and we're gonna help each other do those things, I think, in a very human way. So, you know, I think that that is, You know, that's been kind of fun, fun to watch. And I don't think that, you know, you bring up the Elon Musks of the world and the Steve Jobs and all of those folks. You know, I'd suggest that if, you know, any one of them, you know, would have or would tell you that they don't do this all by themselves. There's certainly a, you know, a real genius around those folks, there's no question, but none of them do it alone, and they recognize that.

Yeah, school, it was school starting back. I was reminded, in fact, just early this morning, and I had, I had seen this before, and I've got, I've got a number of educators in my, you know, my family circle, and I had heard this story, true or not, don't know, probably is, Certainly could be teacher beginning of school in the pre-pandemic days. And of course there's all kinds of concerns understandably today, but in the pre-pandemic world, in a normal world that we once knew, beginning of school, first day, teacher writes students' names on balloons, puts all the balloons in the classroom, tells the kids, come in, you know, find the balloon with your name. You got 5 minutes. And of course it's just chaos and mayhem. Stops them well before the 5 minutes and says, okay, find the— pick up the balloon and now find that person and give it to them. And within 2 minutes, everybody had their balloon with their name on it, you know. So it's kind of illustrative of that point that, you know, if we'll just work together, we can get a lot done and we can get it done much quicker.

You know, that's why too I enjoy so much a lot of these assessments that not only get people to know themselves better but to appreciate the gifts of others better. It's why I do enjoy StrengthsFinders for that particular reason. It allows us to really reflect on, you know, who we are, what we're good at, not to ignore what we're awful at by any means. We always have to pay attention to those things, but to really build on what where our real gifts are and where our talents are. And at the same time, you know, um, you know, when we have Frances Shaw on the, uh, on the show talking about squircle and to recognize the difference between and the value that someone who is a square, someone who is all about data and being on time and being on budget and doing all these things, that's really important, obviously really necessary, but at the same time there are other things that guide decision making beyond the data. It's people who understand system thinking, people who recognize that sometimes, you know, logic in the face of chaos needs something more. You know, it needs gut instinct. It needs the ability to see opportunity in adversity, to be comfortable with ambiguity and uncertainty. And those are the kinds of things that together when circles and squares work together and they bring their unique gifts to one another, they're capable of doing a whole lot. And so I think that's, you know, really fun stuff. Next, kind of, this kind of gets back a little bit to the leadership of your group or team, and that is the quote we have up there. It says, being vulnerable with your team is an act of courage and generosity. Now, for me, and again, so much of the work that I'm doing with organizational work teams, and we're both doing with organizational work teams, comes from the, the understanding about group dynamics, um, first, right? And, you know, what I see time and time again is that when someone truly is sharing something that they're confused about, or they're afraid of, or they don't know, or they, you know, and be willing to be open about them with others is such a huge— again, it's an act of courage because they put themselves out there, but it's such an act of generosity because it's now given permission, one, for others to do the same, and secondly, to have conversations about things that may never get talked about because you had the courage to bring it up. And all of a sudden now you can, and you know, how many times have we been, I don't care if it's in classroom, school, or whatever, right? Where someone raises a question that's like the stupid question that of course 10 other people had, but everyone was afraid to raise their hand. So the person who raised their hand and did that just gave a gift to everyone else in that room. And so again, I think when we are part of the team, not apart from it, it speaks to this idea of being willing to be as vulnerable as the people on your team. Because if you're a leader and you're holding on to some illusion that people think you're perfect, you can let go of that one because everybody— because that's long gone, right? So you might as well roll with it. I think you might as well flow with the current in this one because anything else, you're just trying to dispel some false narrative anyway around the whole thing. So I say, as a leader, you've really got nothing to lose but to be vulnerable. And why not, right?

Yeah. You know, this week I've had a lot of conversations about this one as some of my clients have wrestled with the degree of that vulnerability. And I'd be curious your insights about this. I sort of coach clients to, as leaders, you got to be thoughtful of of the people, and is it helpful? If it's helpful to them, and that can be— I realize that that can be kind of a tough thing. There are certain things that the higher up the hierarchy you go, the more things you may be privy to that would be not constructive at all for rank and file to know. So vulnerability, at least in my sense, It doesn't mean that. It doesn't mean sharing everything that you know, but particularly the human stuff. I remember asking a leader early in the week, have you ever apologized to your team? And the fact that they had to give that, I said, that's disturbing. You shouldn't even have to think about that. We all have behaved in ways in any relationship, but certainly leaders and teams where, you know, you got it wrong, you messed up. So I'm curious your insights about the degree of vulnerability and maybe how people define that or what they're thinking of. And what are you thinking of when you use that term?

I think that you are spot on with the idea that you've got to look at how it serves the needs of the people on the team, right? So the need and the people of your— on your team, for example, in the face of a pandemic or something like that, is for your leader to get up and provide certainty and comfort and some feeling that, yeah, we're going through a tough time, but we kind of got this, and together we can do it. Because you need everyone to be as confident and as ready to roll as possible. It's probably not the time as the leader to say, yeah, I'm not sure how we're going to get through this, I don't know. I'm not sure. This has got me confused. I don't know what's going on.

I'm really nervous about all this.

What the hell? Right? So probably not a good plan there. At the same time, I think there are times where you can be vulnerable, particularly from an empathetic standpoint when it comes to your emotions, that it's OK to— to laugh or cry or to respond as any human being would to any human moment. And I think in some respects, again, in certain forums when the point is, I need and want your input because that's what's going to make us better. That's what's going to make us stronger. And there's a vulnerability in that, not in admitting you don't know something, but in inviting you know, other ideas and other perspectives and not suggesting that you know everything and that you, you know, you don't need them, you got this kind of thing. When clearly, you know, it's kind of our conversations that at the start of the podcast talking about those people closest to the customer, those people closest to vendors or other stakeholders where their input and their, you know, involvement is, you know, you need them now more than ever. And that's not a sign of weakness. You know, that's again, it's a real sign of strength and recognition of, you know, any great leader I think really is outstanding at using all of the resources available to him or her. I mean, that's really kind of what that's all about. And so I think as long as leaders are doing that, you know, inspiring confidence, you know, among their team, but at the same time making sure that that everyone feels good about the role they play. And kind of getting back to that idea too, that people aren't just there to fill a role. They're not there to do a job. They're there to make a difference. But you have to give them that opportunity to make a difference. And so number 5, and we've got great groups engage in productive dialogue that inspires the trial of new ideas in the real world. Great teams do the same thing. Uh, we're really seeing that, obviously, um, when you think about how well companies have pivoted, um, in during this time and how people have really come together and it's inspired dialogue and exchange of ideas and a willingness to work together, um, that has been really, really powerful. And it fuels what we talk about, which I think is essential to the high-performing group or team, and that's the learning-achieving cycle. This idea that we learn better when we learn together. When we do, we learn what we're learning more deeply, and we give each other the encouragement and the courage to act on that learning in a way that inspires trial of new ideas and all of that. And then even if there's some trial and error, when we actually achieve some success for applying what we've learned, then all of a sudden this is something we want to do more of. We're thinking, wow, that, that was really great. Let's, let's keep doing that. And the best CEO peer groups I've ever worked with, the best teams I've ever worked with. You can look at a lot of things and define, oh, this is why they're good and this is why they win, but you really want to get right down to it, they've got a robust learning achieving cycle that drives all of those attributes that you love about their culture and about who they are. And that to me is, is just hugely, hugely powerful.

Is it, it may be a chicken-egg dilemma. So dialogue fosters the other, the other fosters the dialogue. Which?

Oh, most certainly both. Yeah. Yeah. Most certainly both. You know, when we've had Craig Weber on the show and we talk about psychological safety, for example, you know, the issue is the psychological safety you know, inspire one's conversational capacity, or is it the other way around, right? Or are psychological safety and conversational capacity actually one and the same thing? You know, so it's a very, very kind of interesting, you kind of really want to get nerdy about diving into exploring all that. There's some really great conversation around, I think, what, you know, what that looks like. And, you know, as you know, I get more and more intrigued, and I've been a kind of a student of it for a long time in terms of Craig Weber's work around conversational capacity. And, you know, yeah, so I think all of that is really important when it comes to the kind of dialogue that's necessary.

And for us to not think about dialogue in terms of talking, just talking, which I do think based on a lot of my conversations, an awful lot of people, that's kind of the first image that pops in their head. Dialogue is talking.

So yeah, and I think it's probably helpful to kind of think about dialogue, discussion, and debate as three very different things. Dialogue is just really talking. It's just really an exchange of ideas. It just is what it is, right? It's not necessarily Discussion oftentimes, in my view, is something that you are— it has a point where you are trying to lead to a specific decision oftentimes.

Yeah.

Where debate becomes this kind of— which can be healthy debate, which debate can be really powerful and positive when people are not only expressing themselves well, but willing to listen to others so that the debate actually leads to a good place that opens people's ideas about a specific subject area. But just the ability to have dialogue, I think, and to be comfortable with the idea that we can come together and we can have conversations about things that aren't about who wins, who loses, who's right, who's wrong, but just really about a real learning experience. And the better we get practiced at that and You know, kind of build muscles around the ability to do that. That I think speaks to a lot of what conversational capacity is all about, right? I mean, think about, you know, Craig talks about this idea of confidence and curiosity, or excuse me, candor and curiosity. It's confidence and humility is the other, but candor and curiosity, you know, where we, it isn't that we hold our views so strongly that we regard them as empirical truths, but that we hold them more as hypotheses. And we can invite conversation that tests that hypothesis for us. And I think those are really good things.

So dialogue, so are you thinking, and it's interesting, and the minute you said it, the talking part, the safety to be able to say what you wanna say without negative ramifications, maybe?

Well, and also to hear questions from people and not get defensive, or to hear, to just, really be very— it's really about, and I really like the way Craig talks about it, is kind of holding your views more as hypotheses and really being open to listen to others. And the hope too, of course, that you're respecting each other's intent around these questions. These aren't, you know, gotcha questions. These aren't things— in fact, what's really funny in the conversations we've had just even today, where people may or may not think like you're asking me questions that really are not rehearsed in any way, shape, or form.

No, no, no.

Sometimes there's a question coming my way and I'm thinking it's very possible I'm gonna say, I have no idea. I don't know what you're talking about. So, but, and I will be very willing to say that by the way, when, not if, but when that occurs someday when we're on these calls, but—

You know I'm willing to. You're the one bringing the brainpower. You're the one bringing the bigger brainpower here. I humbly recognize it.

I don't know about that. I think asking the good ques— I'm involved with a course at Rutgers that we teach personal branding, and we talk about these students and being part of job interviews. And I'll ask them, do you want to be the person who's known for giving the best answers or asking the best questions? And most people recognize, and maybe to your point from earlier, they recognize that the best questions part is the right thing to say. However, it starts them on the path of thinking about how important that is because interestingly enough, you will so distinguish yourselves from other candidates when you ask really, really good informed questions as opposed to saying, "No, no, everything you told me sounds pretty good." I think we've got— no matter how great my answers were in that interview, if I end that interview that way, I'm toast, or I should be. Let me just put it that way. You, you gotta have something to ask.

Yeah. See, I'm not, I was that person asking the really stupid question. The rest of the room was certainly glad that I asked it, but it wasn't so much vulnerability. It was just, you know, stark curiosity of, okay, well, I don't know the answer to this. Somebody else may. So, you know, but I come by it honest.

Well, and, and, you know, um, and I won't get into this particular story right now necessarily, but I'll say this, that, in CEO peer groups. It's the— because you'll have someone ask the CEO a question who's not in that person's industry at all. So if you were to— if you were among bankers, for example, and some other banker asked you that question, they look at you like, what's wrong with you? Like, what? But someone from another industry who asks a perfectly valid question, innocent question, they're not part of what they do, It's a question that because it's become so much a part of who they are and how they do things for so long, they get asked a question that they have stopped asking themselves a long time ago. And that's the real value in that. And all of a sudden now, people revisit issues, they revisit ways of doing things, they talk about, you know, what may be commonplace in one industry, unheard of in their own. And can think, huh, you know, maybe we could explore this. Maybe we could try that now, but not for that setting. That, that question never gets asked. That's not going to happen. So, you know, asking those questions, even when we think they're the kind of question that feels naive because I'm not in their industry, chances are good that it's a really good question.

You know, my, my whole life philosophy is I already know what I know. I just don't know what you know or what the other people know. I do know that what I know is probably not nearly enough. So there's that.

So we all, you know, when I was doing my doctoral work at Northeastern and you're always in every, every moment you're finding like, it's like going into the universe and you realize it's way bigger than you thought it was. And I used to tell people I'm getting dumber by the day in this program. I mean, relatively speaking, when you look at what's out there, you're like, holy smoke. I mean, there's just some amazing work that goes into such incredible depth on such minute specific topics that you're just like, good Lord. So yeah, so we're, we're all, we all suffer from that. We all have a lot to learn. Yeah. Um, final one, um, that I want to get into, and this I think has gotten, um, a fair bit of reaction, maybe the most reaction as far as the social media chairs online, is that championships are not the goal. They're the reward for a commitment to daily improvement. Right. So I've seen this in business, whether you're at a place and you're trying to create the best advertising in the world, um, or you're a team trying to win an NCAA championship or, um, NBA title or NFL Super Bowl or whatever. Right. Um, when you really look at the best organizations, and this is where I think so many companies get tripped up. They get so focused on outcome metrics that they don't focus on the things that actually make those outcomes possible. And those are the outputs, right? And those are the things, how do I get just a little better every day? You know, how do I get better today than I was yesterday? How am I better next week than I was last week? And if every one of us committed to doing that, by definition, You know, we could all— and when we do that together, we can do that even at an accelerated rate. You know, this is how we help each other be great at what we do, to be here and to take pride in what we do, which I hope that's what everyone wants to do every day, whether they're in sports or in business. And so these championship teams, you know, if we think about these goals, these big things that everyone gets recognized for as the reward for doing those little everyday things. Kind of a little bit of going back to what anyone can do, right? But they are. It's that focus on those, on those actions and that commitment that, that's the reason those are the— that's the reason teams win championships and those who don't or those who can't even compete for them. Um, you know, in business we're not playing against other teams. We quite frankly, we don't even know if our team is good or if it sucks, relatively speaking. What we know is that hopefully we know one another, we know what we're here for, we know at the end of the day whether we're producing really quality work in the best way we humanly— as humanly possible or not. And if we're honest with ourselves about those things and we can commit to the daily things that— and ask our leaders to help us with whatever resources necessary to help help make you better. You know, that, that to me is, that's the difference maker, you know, and you see it time and time again with teams who do that and with teams, by the way, where the team members are committed to being great teammates first, you know, no one has to hold them accountable. They hold themselves accountable. They accept personal responsibility for being a professional and bringing their A-games every day. And yeah, those are the people you want on your team. Right.

Well, I think companies, I personally know a number of companies that, that hold that championship mindset. You know, we just, we just, we buy into these things that they sound good, but maybe we don't think about them deeply enough. Now I'm old enough. I won't put it on you, but I'm old enough to remember, you know, the whole zero-sum game. And in business, that was, I win, you lose. And so it—

you don't have to remember far, it exists plenty.

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. So I tell people it was before the internet, it was before, you know, it was before even fax machines and cell phones, but it was just how business was. You measured yourself, you know, based on market share. And I realized that bigger companies and big brands still largely do that. But the whole I win, you lose kind of a scarcity mindset thing, I think, contributes to that and largely plays into it. For me, as a young person coming up, as a young leader coming up, and now that I'm old, it's like, yeah, but what could it be? What could it be? I mean, if you're killing the competition, but the competition sucks, then You know, you could be leaving a lot of potential on the table just because you're just, you're measuring the wrong stuff. You're looking at the wrong thing.

Yeah. I don't, there's no question in my mind. And, you know, I think the unfortunate part too, and this isn't just with the, this is in the last, you know, 20 plus years, this isn't just recent, but the zero-sum game in Washington has just gotten that much worse and that much more public. And the people who lose are the American people, basically. The people who lose are the world, quite frankly, when you don't have leadership that's capable of producing the kinds of things we could do if we were willing to work together. And, you know, I don't think this is something that we need as business leaders to model. I think we have to do the very best we can to show others that there's a different way and that we can actually work together and we can be cooperative and we can sometimes even agree to disagree. But what we know is that the— what we want, what we recognize, you know, what William Ury calls the third side, right? It's for the good of the kids, it's for the good of the country, it's for the good of whatever. If we're competing here, we know that we've got that third side. That's the real reason we're even having this debate. And once we recognize that and where we have a society that rewards collaboration, and doesn't regard it as the zero-sum game, doesn't regard it as winners and losers and who, you know, who caved and who won and who lost and all this other nonsense that, you know, we, we really start thinking, okay, you know, conflict like that is great for ratings. It's great, great for fundraising. It's great for all of the kinds of things except for helping real people. Live, you know, the life that they should be able to live in this country and elsewhere. So, that being said, I think when it comes to the social media shares that we've been putting out there and rotating, you know, pick your favorite one, comment on it, tell us about it, tell us about your experience, you know, with it, what it may mean to you and for you. And if we start collecting some of those things, we'll We'll share them on the podcast as well. We'd certainly love to do that with your permission. And Randy, let me give you the last word.

Yeah, well, I want to throw you a curveball and end on the tagline. It's not a social media share, but it's the tagline of the podcast. And what is it?

No, I'm just kidding.

Yeah, talk, talk, talk a little bit about that because I think that's— I'm proud of it. I didn't have anything to do with it, but I'm proud of it. And I'm proud that we use it, because I think it does so speak to the heart of everything that we're trying to evangelize and perpetrate.

I think there's so many, you know, you think about all the guests that we've had that have contributed to that line, right? So that's where it comes from. It comes from the Angela Meyers of the world, who are talking about how much we matter. It talks about Jim Kouzes and what it means to model the way. It comes from You know, countless other guests who are in their own way contributed to the idea that again, we, we are not just there to, you know, take up space. We're there to matter. We're there to make a difference. And, um, and anytime we are part of a team, we're there for a reason and we have to recognize what that reason is and make the very best contribution we can. So you can't be on a team and say, well, my team sucks without, you know, accepting some personal responsibility for that. Or if my team's great, to be proud of the role you play on that team, whether you're the lead on that team, whether you're a role player on the team, whatever, however you contribute to one another's success becomes really powerful. But it really starts with really reflecting, you know, each and every one of us reflecting on you know, who we are, what we care about, how we can get better, how we make a difference, and how we can, you know, help others. And when we start operating in that way, I think it's, it's very, very powerful. But, you know, that line in many respects doesn't come from me either. It comes from just about every guest we've had on the show who has absolutely in their own way underscored the power of that. So to be able to just capture it in one line and make it part of the way people think about their role and their involvement in their group or team, you know, is a good start, I hope.

We appreciate you, the audience, and we hope that we're, we hope we're helping you in some small way, maybe in some big ways, you know, as you try to improve your own leadership and build your own higher-performing team. If you want to connect with Leo and the work that we're doing at Peer Innovation, we encourage you to do that. It's peerinnovation.co. You can find out ways to subscribe to the podcast and all the work that Leo and I do, which is obviously largely virtual and remote these days. But it's amazing how effective that is. I had a client just this week say, you know, I think it may even be more so And I'm not sure why that is, but I'll take it. So we encourage you to subscribe to the podcast and we appreciate you clicking play for today's episode. And you already teased the 3 guests that we've got coming up, and then there's others that we've got coming down the pipeline. So we're looking forward to, uh, to a productive fall.

All right. Have fun, everybody. Have a good weekend.

Thank you for joining us. To subscribe to the podcast and learn more about how you can engage peer innovation for your organization, contact us on the website at peerinnovation.co. Until next week, remember, the power of we begins with you.