Leo & Randy On Truth To Power (Season 2020, Episode 6)

Welcome to the What Anyone Can Do podcast with Leo Bottari and me, Randy Cantrell. This show picks up where our previous show, You're the Peer, left off, highlighting the simple truth that who you surround yourself with matters, and that if we enlist the support of others, give back to those who give to us, and pay it forward for the next generation, we can do anything. Author and keynote speaker Leo Bottari and I talk with a diverse group of thought leaders who will share stories, and insights that will help you succeed in business and in life.

How?

By doing the things anyone can do, but most of us never will.

Welcome back to another episode of What Anyone Can Do, the podcast. My name is Randy Kendrell. I come to you from a chilly, a frigid Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas. He, he is where the weather never changes, San Diego, California. He is Leo Bottari. The website is leobottari.com, L-E-O-B-O-T-T-A-R-Y. And you're at least donning red for Happy Valentine's Day.

I am. And W for the weather never changing. Yeah, it's, uh, no, but, uh, yes, happy Valentine's Day to everyone. Yeah. I've got to, got to put a little red on today. I do not have a Valentine's hat per se, but you know, Nationals did win the World Series and we try to celebrate those, uh, doing well in sports. Um, in fact, I think, you know, hey, anyone that, you know, we've been, I think anyone who wants us to, um, you know, don a hat, uh, on the podcast, hey, send one along, you know. Um, we'll, uh, we'd love to do that. Um, like I said, we, I think in particular, I said, there's probably a, there's probably only one hat that I really just, cause I'd be disowned by my family and everything growing up in Boston is I can't do the Yankees hat thing. Um, I don't obviously have any— anyone who grew up in New York and the Yankees are their team, totally get that. I mean, that's just the way that goes. I mean, just like Boston or Red Sox fans and all. I think if you grew up in another part of the country and you chose that, I don't know about that. I am— that would have to be a longer conversation to figure out what that was all about. But I think, yeah, no, short of that, excited about, you know, the Chiefs and what they did this year. We'll be heading into March Madness and into the late spring, early summer playoffs for the NHL and the, you know, NBA soon enough as well. And, you know, some good, good stuff going on.

Well, here in, here in Dallas, and of course Dallas hates Houston, and of course the big news in baseball circles is, is the big, the big cheating scandal, you know, with Houston. So today radio, radio is abuzz with how poorly they handled the press conferences and stuff yesterday, including ownership and players and management and kind of not really owning, owning this whole cheating thing. And I freely admit I am, I'm not a, I'm not a big baseball fan. I'll watch the ACLS and NCLS and the, in the World Series, but that's, that's about it. It's about all the baseball that I can handle, but I don't know. I might have to think about an Astros hat. I might not be willing to wear the Astros hat living here in Dallas-Fort Worth.

Well, one of the things, you know, since you brought up the cheating scandal, it's not like we haven't been dragged into it, you know, in Boston in a big way too, with, you know, Alex Cora being dismissed. And so now it's like the Red Sox and the Patriots, I think. If the Bruins and the Celtics are tied to any, you know, such scandals, we're going to be like the cheating city if we're not already, you know, being labeled that now.

Um, but yeah, it's, um, who was it that said, if you're not cheating, you're not trying hard enough?

Yeah, I don't know who said that either, but it's a good line.

It's a good line. Well, it does kind of segue into our topic today about truth, so Yeah.

So last, last May, and we didn't do a show on it. Of course, we don't always do a show on every single piece that I write for CEO World, but the piece actually was done last year in 2019. It was about speaking truth to power, but from two perspectives, from the perspective of the employee speaking truth to power to the CEO, for example, but also for how does the CEO actually create an environment where people want to speak truth to power to them. Because, you know, you have all these things happening in the field and all this stuff. The last thing you need is your employees afraid to come to you telling you the bad news because they adopt this kill the messenger type of mentality. And I think, you know, regardless of your politics, and this would be the same for me if this were a Democrat or Republican administration, but, you know, right now there's no question. And I think it's no matter what side of this you're on, you've got a president where speaking truth to power to this president isn't exactly the most inviting proposition. And probably not the greatest leadership example we could be getting right now. So I did kind of think maybe as we think about our own organizations and our own companies, not to have this mentality of kill the messenger, you know, or, for people to be afraid that they will be killed or humiliated or God knows what will happen to them. Um, if they do speak truth to power, but, um, but that we have an honest exchange so that everybody is more effective, you know, that leaders are operating with the information they need and employees are feeling heard. And so I think that kind of, you know, goes to, and, and, you know, and I'm actually going to look at it cause there's 10 of them. So I'm not going to try to pretend that I'm going to not have these in an exact order.

Yeah, we need to walk through some of these.

Yeah, I do. I want to walk through them all because I think when we think about as an individual, how do I go about speaking truth to power? What does that look like? And I think in the piece, I really talked about it in terms of one, trust yourself. You know, have the confidence, you know, in your expertise, your understanding of the situation, and in at least the recommendations you're providing, uh, assuming that you are actually not only seeing a problem, but maybe seeing some, uh, at least thought starter ideas for how to address it.

And this is a viewpoint of you as the leader, you as the CEO.

This is for me, this is for me as an employee.

Okay.

I can go myself. I gotta trust myself that You know, I'm seeing certain things going on here that, and, you know, we're going to do that. I think second is know your audience. You know, you've got to know your CEO in terms of what his or her priorities are and how they tend to see the world and think of the world. And I think framing whatever you're bringing on their terms, I think is helpful. You know, being prepared is also a big part of that. You know, know the situation well, understand that You're going to get a lot of questions and you have to be able to back up, you know, answer those questions and hopefully provide some data or experiences or stories or whatever that back that up. Um, uh, next is really, uh, consider it your response, your responsibility to share your professional judgment. You know, when you're hired to do a job, you're not hired to see things and not You're hired for a specific reason that you bring something to the table and it's your job really to add value. I think when you think about it, if, if you don't say anything and then something goes wrong, I don't know where you go with that. What do you say? Oh yeah, I saw that. And yeah, I knew that was going to be a disaster. And, but I didn't say anything about it. It's like, well, I don't need you here then. You know, I want someone who actually will say something when these things come up. Um, Make your point succinctly, you know, don't bury the lead here. You know, in other words, if you've got something you're bringing to the table, don't, you know, tell it in a once upon a time, you know, type format. I mean, just say, here's what we're talking about, and then take it from there. Um, you know, start with the headline. Um, I think the CEO needs to understand that you're doing this in the broader interest, not self-interest. You're not doing it because you're trying to I'm not trying to gain a personal advantage here or do anything like that, but it's really about the company, about the enterprise, about making sure that whatever we're all trying to do together in an org— as an organization is being upheld. Um, uh, and basically persuade. Um, it isn't, it isn't enough, I think, to bring something to someone's attention, have strong feelings about it, but then as soon as they ask you a question or they push back a little bit, say, oh yeah, no, just kidding. You know, like, like, like this, this is where you've got to step up. Oftentimes when you're getting challenged, it's not that someone's disagreeing with you. They are actually just trying to, you know, make sure they understand where you're coming from better. And the more that you articulate that position in a way that has confidence, you know, the better off for everybody. Um, I think being patient is really important too. Oftentimes what's happened, what'll happen is I'm bringing something to a CEO. Now I've thought about it for quite a long time and I've experienced it and all that. So I'm expecting the CEO in, in a minute, you know, to understand what maybe took me hours to kind of put together. So I think don't always expect either an immediate response, an affirmative response, just feel as if I was heard and I made the case as I did and trust that maybe for some people they may want to digest that a little bit or get some other perspectives on that. And I think that's exactly what you're looking for. You know, I think in the end to understand that bad news is better coming from you than from outside the company. I think that's really key. And I think finally is really trust your leadership. You know, there are times when you may be sharing something and, you know, the CEO will take your point of view from your particular lens in consideration as they are hearing all kinds of things from all kinds of other points of view. And they are basically charged with having to make a decision for an entire organization that's based on considerations that may not be obvious to you or may not even be visible to you. Um, so I think this is where you've got to trust your leadership in that regard. Um, now for leaders out there, um, so, so how do you actually now create an environment where people would actually want to come to you and do all those things? It's one thing, you know, for you to feel all of those 10 things, It's another thing to realize, man, you know, yeah, but if I tell this person that I'm going to be in big trouble, you know, or I'm going to be looked at as I'm not on the team or I'm a dissenter or I've got a bad attitude or whatever. Right. Um, so I think for, for the CEO, it starts to be about trust your people, right? Trust that when they come to you, they're giving you their best judgment based on their expertise and their specific vantage point. They may not have a lens on the whole situation. So you can You got to recognize that it took a lot of generosity and courage for them to come to you and do that. And I think to acknowledge that is really important. Two, you know, you hired them for a reason. They weren't there just to, you know, execute your every, you know, whim and command without question. Know your employee. Be mindful of who this person is and why they're coming to you. And I think really take that into consideration. Be patient, you know, for that person. It's kind of the CEO has to be patient too, because for someone bringing something to the CEO, especially when it may be something that he or she believes they may not want to hear, you know, just let them get it out. You know, it may not come out perfectly. They might bury the lead a little bit. They might do whatever. So be patient because it takes a lot of courage to do that. Definitely be open to listening and understanding their full point of view. And definitely after you listen, I think use appreciative inquiry to learn more. And, you know, in doing so in a fashion that is supportive as opposed to putting them on the defensive, I think really becomes really key. Consider it your default position that their motives are in the broader interest and not the personal interest, you know. Don't immediately be suspicious of that person. Think of it in the broader interest unless there's something that leads you to believe otherwise. Absolutely don't feel the need to respond in the moment. That person isn't always about wanting an answer or wanting a solution. They may just want you to say, "Thank you for coming to me and doing that." If it is bad news, obviously thank your employee for bringing it forward and having the courage to share that with you. You know, and again, I think finally you wanna keep their unique vantage point in mind. You know, even though they are giving their recommendation, which may not be overall the way you end up taking action, but it's because they're operating with a different set of data than you are on this. And you have to consider that with the set of data that they're operating from, And this is, um, yeah, I can see how they reached that conclusion. Right. You know, so, so I think with a lot of this stuff, um, this becomes a real, um, sticking point for a lot of employees. And this isn't just about conversations with CEO. This is about every time you show up to a meeting, you know, every time you are, you know, part of a group or a team where you have to, if you think about it, have all of these same considerations for and about one another, uh, and that there's a trust there and that whatever we're doing is really for the good of the enterprise. And that's why we're all here and what it's all about. I mean, when you think about times where either you've been in the leader and trying to create that environment or times where you've worked at a company where you've had to bring things forward, what are some of the experiences you've had around that.

Well, you know, my first thought while you were going through that, that list, even before I would get to—

and we'll make that article available in the show notes too.

We'll put links, links to this. You know, my thought is here we are on Valentine's Day as we record this on Friday, 14th of February, 2020. And People can think about their, their romantic relationships, and we've all got this ideal in our head. You know, I happen to be married to the same woman for 42 years. You know, we fell in love as kids, and I mean, we've been together since we were 18. So that's my, that's my perspective. And for many people, that would not be the ideal. You know, for, for me, it kind of is. And as you were going through that list, I mean, I can hear people say, yeah, yeah, Leo, that sounds great and wonderful, but man, that's the ideal. And we all know that even a 42-year marriage is not always ideal. Things aren't, you know, it's not this picture book story. And much of what we talk about, I— it is the ideal, but we're both optimists and we're both leaning. I think we are both leaning really hard into the optimism of at least striving to achieve that ideal. But what would you say to that kind of pushback? Yeah, this is all great and wonderful, but man, there are so many challenges and hurdles to achieving any one of these, much less all of them together.

Yeah. So a couple of things. One is, one of the reasons that the article was written from both perspectives was the understanding that, So if you write this from one perspective and say, you know what, as an employee, if you do these 10 things, you're going to be great. Well, you could do these 10 things, depending on who the CEO is and who the leader is, you get your ass kicked. There's no question about that. I get that. Right. Which is, which is absolutely why in fact, the title of the CEO World article is Speaking Truth to Power in Reverse. The real point of it is kind of to reoutline what employees should think about and how to responsibly bring information to your leadership, because I do think that that's very, very important. And I do think that you're in a bit of an indefensible position when you see something and recognize something or see a glitch in something and don't say it and allow it to fail. I don't think there's any question about that. However, the message really, and for CEO world, was to CEOs or to leaders, and hopefully they pass that on to some of their C-suite and team leaders as well, which says, You know what, it's fine to say, oh, you can come and talk to me anytime you want about anything. But it's another thing to actually act and behave in a way that makes that environment, um, provides the psychological safety that someone needs in order to do that. So that's precisely why, um, you know, I really wanted to attack that from both sides because I think it's essential for leaders to recognize, You know, it's important. I remember talking with Bob Pittman in writing The Power of Peers, you know, and he, you know, was fascinating in terms of his philosophy as CEO when he was talking about, you know, iHeartMedia and basically talking about the importance of embracing the dissenters, you know, so Instead of having these side conversations around all the time and these kind of ringleaders that can get created that we've talked about, bring them right to the center of the table and say, all right, there's this initiative we're doing. You guys see all kinds of faults with it. Let's get them, let's get them out. Let's talk about what they are. And then it's basically like, okay, so if we could eliminate these 2 or 3 things, you think this is going to be successful? Okay. All right, good. Let's get rid of those 2 or 3 things and we go from there. So now You put people in a position where instead of just complaining from the cheap seats, you know, about, you know, what initiative's going on, now you get them involved to do the necessary things to make it possible. And you, you turned them from that ringleader that we've talked about to an actual leader in the company. And I think it's, it's brilliant the way he, you know, he, he thinks about that. And, but that is all has to be done in a culture that allows for those dissenters, if you will. Um, I don't necessarily love that word to label people quite that way, but you know what I mean? At least they're dissenting about something that's a particular initiative. Clearly they are not dissenters, um, broadly, right? Because then you don't want those folks in your team, but what you do want are people who are absolutely on the team, but that doesn't mean being on the team is cheer for everything. Rah, rah, rah, no matter what it is all the time. It's recognizing and understanding, hey, there are some little things here. This is super well-intentioned. This is 95% awesome, but there's some things that we need to address. Um, and being able to bring those forward, uh, a leader who invites that, uh, you know, I mean, it's just, it's just worth its weight in gold. And I don't know what you're thinking also, if you're paying people all this money and you, not only you don't listen to them, but you don't even create an environment where they would want to talk to you anyway.

Right. Well, and it's, you know, for me, it seems like it's largely intention, but there's also a big how-to component. And so this lifelong commitment to our learning, whether we are an employee or whether we are a leader— I mean, one phrase that really stuck out in this list for me was appreciative inquiry. Appreciative inquiry to learn more. That's— oh, I'm not going to say that that's not a skill that some people may— they may have it innately, but I think the vast majority of us, we've got to learn that. We've got to learn how to express appreciative inquiry as opposed to just jumping right in the middle of somebody because we don't agree with what they just said.

Yeah, and I think that that's why, um, when I talk about you're gonna, you're gonna get questions and you're gonna have some CEOs who are really skilled at appreciative inquiry and some who are actually well-intentioned with their question, but it's certainly not going to feel that way in the moment. And you're going to, the inclination is going to be to put you on the defensive, that someone's trying to put you on your heels. And I think this is where you have to at least take the position that Okay, I just got the hard question, but you know what? I'm ready for that hard question. I'm going to put it out there in terms of my response to that question and provide some evidence around that without getting caught up with how it was asked. So I think there's a bit of that. Is the ideal that you would get appreciative inquiry from your CEO? Sure. Is it likely to happen? Maybe, but maybe not, but that shouldn't change how you're going to go about doing what you need to do. And that's why all of the things, when we think about the steps and there's really, I know it's 10 steps on each side. And again, not only are they not particularly memorable in a way, I mean, I wrote them and I had to read through them, you know, because you just want to go through it. But if you think about it, it isn't just 10 different things. They're all very interrelated. It all, when you look, you read them a few times, you get yourself into the mindset of, okay, A, it's my responsibility to do it. B, I'm going to do it for the greater good. C, I'm going to be prepared, um, to, uh, answer questions, to put this out in a way that's succinct and, um, and not necessarily expect that I'm going to get the answer that I'm looking for in that moment or ever, or at all for that matter. Um, and you know, when you get right down to it, I mean, that's, That's the nut of it. And again, for the CEO to be that person who at least creates it, it's almost like when we talk about psychological safety in groups, you know, we talk about people modeling psychological safety, right? Like if you see one person share something and be vulnerable and you see that there was not any penalty for it, in fact, that person and others benefited, awesome. So you might argue that, huh, if I saw that person doing it, I can do it now. And that makes me feel safe. That's part of what makes you feel safe. The other part would be, as that person was sharing, what were the other people in the room doing? How were they listening? What type of empathy was really going on? Were they checking their cell phones? Were they looking out the window, you know, while this person's pouring their heart out? That doesn't feel very safe, right? If you watch that going on, right? No matter how, what the outcome may have been for that. So the safety is really created by the recipient. And in this case, the CEO wanting to be the recipient of all the information he or she can get her, um, get their hands on with regard to how best run the organization, um, creating that psychological safety becomes huge.

But this article, this article has, has a real big overtone to me. It did when I, when I read it. For the first time, and it has since, of just our individual leadership. To your point of kind of leading the way, okay, so if the CEO isn't modeling or isn't performing, isn't doing some of these behaviors, for instance, that one, that appreciative inquiry, if other people in the room can lead the way and show how, show the impact and the power of that, it is rather amazing how a room can pick up on things. And we're assuming this is going to be a C-suite kind of a room. This is going to be— if you are an audience with the CEO, you certainly have got— probably there's no probable to it— you do have more power than you realize, you know, to influence that CEO.

You wouldn't be there. They wouldn't even want— yeah, you couldn't get in meeting. And it's likely, by the way, that you're not going to be, um, alone with CEO too. They could very well have someone there and you're talking in front of a couple of different people. And, you know, again, this is where all those things I mentioned about preparedness and understanding the audience and all of that really becomes essential. But, you know, in the end, this is why I just kind of felt like in, you know, as we sit here thinking about what we're watching, in the White House right now with, um, you know, people essentially being, you know, escorted, you know, out of the White House for— one could argue performing their duty, and other, other people argued for being disloyal, which is why they're, you know, all of that. I guess your, your position on it. But I think in terms of our organizations, we have to think in terms of, um, there's nothing disloyal about bringing truth to power. And sometimes that's not going to be, you know, that's not going to be direct, right? So I think the president would argue, well, if they came to me, that would have been great. But instead they went to Congress, you know, they went to like, what's that all about? Well, you know, because we actually have a government where there are checks and balances and there are those procedures and those things. In place. I think in most of our companies, we might be loath to go above our boss, for example, and things like that. And I, and, uh, you know, and I think by and large, I think we should work with our supervisors from that standpoint, not around them, obviously. But, um, it's, um, you know, I know it's, it's dicey, but I think for leaders being able to set the tone for people being able to be open is essential.

Well, leadership's a dicey business. So there's that.

There it is. You know, so update us on, update us, update us on, on the book. So I'm going to be able to give you a better update on the book, I think, in a couple of weeks, um, in terms of, you know, precisely how many, uh, chapters are done. And, you know, I'm doing a lot of, you know, mapping out of chapters right now in terms of, You know, I think about it in terms of like more like the architecture of the book than, you know, the, you know, if I were building the house, I'm not at the stage where I'm moving furniture in yet. Let's put it that way, you know. And I, and for me, that'll be the easier part.

Since this is your third one, anything changed in the process? I know people are very curious about people that write books and, and just the process. I mean, what's changed from the first book to this book?

More, more, more time up front on run the planning part of it. Yeah. It's not a, it's not a 2,000 or 3,000 word article. It's in my case, somewhere usually in the 40,000 to 50,000 word range. So when you're writing something of that length and you're trying to do it in a way that's coherent and you're, you're, you're breaking it up in a way that for someone who is looking at this content for the first time, it becomes digestible and relatable and all, then that takes work to make that happen. Um, so it's not about just taking what's in my head and dumping it out into some pages and with the hope that people are going to crawl inside, whatever I'm thinking about. I mean, I have to, I have to imagine, you know, someone who's just picking this up and you just really walk them through step 1, step 2, step 3 and 4, and you don't skip anything along the way. And sometimes it's easy. If, if we've looked at something, I don't care who it is, or if you look at anything and, and that has any complexity to it and you know it really, really well, then you start taking for granted certain steps and certain things that to you are of course, right. They're part of that. But for someone reading it, they're like, how did you get from there to there? Like what, what's happening in the middle here that you didn't? So this is why, uh, you know, having people, You know, I think about, um, the kinds of people that you want, you know, reading the book, right? So I want a lot of— I like it when people— like, I think about 3 kinds of people that I'll have read something before it goes. One is someone who really knows the content well, okay? So they look at it and they go, okay, you're not completely off your rocker, kind of thing. Um, second is someone who really understands how to write something really well and understand really, you know, good writing and the construction of it. And so, you know, word choice and things like that. And the third is someone who knows nothing about either, really. Somebody who's never written a book. They don't really know a lot about the content. It's like, here you go, you know? And that is super valuable because then it's like, someone's like, Because it doesn't, it doesn't help if, if someone says to me, I don't get this, me saying, what do you mean? What do you mean you don't get this? Right. It's right there. Blah, blah, blah. Right. I've got to look and think, all right, tell me about what it is that is, that is unclear so that I can fix it. Because this goes back to the, you know, When you think about whose responsibility is it that the content gets delivered in a way that's clear and as intended, it's 100% on me to make that happen. So if someone's coming back to me saying, I don't get it, then I'm falling down somewhere on that. And it isn't for me to say, the power of the author, that they'll never, they're never, it's for me to figure out how do I rework it so that it doesn't happen with someone else. And yeah. And I think that that is, you know, and really important for all of us when we do that kind of stuff.

Yeah, well, I'm excited for it. So let me, let me be your sales guy here. This is the first one. This is the first book. This was co-authored with Leon Shapiro back when, when Leo and Leon were working together. And here's the second book. This This is the most recent book. Encourage you to pick up both of these. If you have any interest at all in the subjects that we talk about here on the podcast, then, then these are, these are books that you would, uh, you'd learn a lot from. You'd appreciate them.

I think especially what Anyone Can Do, right? Cause I think if you're anyone, have, you know, it's, it's for you.

Are you anyone? Of course you're anyone. Well, and they've got compelling stories. You know, these are not academic tomes. I mean, these are very practical, real-world, filled with real-world illustrations and stories. And I can't imagine, again, anybody— it'll resonate. It'll resonate. And it doesn't matter what it is that you're trying to achieve. If you are trying to achieve anything at all, um, yeah, you need to.

And of course, for those of you who aren't watching the video, uh, there was the power of peers and what anyone can do. And, and what you will have also seen is that in terms of the length of these books, this isn't exactly War and Peace or Grapes of Wrath or something, right? This is like, this is a pretty quick read. Um, and again, I think something that Uh, for the most part, I think the first one obviously crawls inside how and why formal peer groups are so effective for CEOs and business leaders. And obviously we felt that was a really important book to write because it is such a powerful resource for CEOs and leaders, yet so few people, uh, take advantage of them. And we kind of felt that something else, it's not the only book about that subject area, but at least something else that contributed to Giving language to that resource was something we thought was valuable. And then of course, you know, you and I, you know, worked on the, um, um, the Year of the Peer podcast series where we had 50 amazing guests, all of whom, you know, copped to the, you know, this idea that, um, not one of them became the success they are today all by themselves. And we got into this recurring theme that it was not just about our peers. It was about the whole circle. Circle of people who surround us and that it was not just about being part of a formal group. It's these people who surround us every day and how can we do a better job of enlisting them and engaging them and helping us achieve our own goals in life, but also how we can help others as well. And, you know, as you know, the title, you know, being from Joe Henderson's, uh, line in his book, The Long Run Solution, where he was talking about successful runners and just people in general, successful people in general, said, look, he said, most of these folks aren't capable of like leaping tall buildings in a single bound. They're not. He said, they just do the things that anyone can do that most of us never will. So this idea of what anyone can do, which are these little things that if we can do them every day and make a commitment to those things, we will do far more often if we are surrounded by people who can, can help provide the encouragement and the accountability and the advice and the, resources sometimes to help us get what we want. And again, for us to be able to return that favor to others, I think is really powerful. So, yeah, it's great stuff. You know, yesterday I want to give a shout out to— I participated in a WIN Mastermind group yesterday with Alexander Keenan, runs them out of Amsterdam. And what a terrific experience that was. He used the Circles platform, so also shout out to Dan Hoffman as well, because, and, and it was great too to see, because I've seen Dan run Circles, right, in terms of a meeting before, and you would imagine obviously Dan's going to run it beautifully, right? But, but to watch someone else do it and be able to see how they will be able to seamlessly and so easily use this tool to facilitate this group of about half a dozen we had yesterday was remarkable. And it was just a really good experience. It was 1 hour. And I think everyone walked away with some terrific takeaway value. And it just shows you— and by the way, every one of us other than— I knew Alex, but all the people around the table were meeting for the very first time. And the value that everyone contributed and experienced and everything was really quite great. You know, and it was really cool. So, um, you know, it was good stuff.

And, uh, if you are interested in Leo as a keynote speaker, uh, workshop seminar conductor, uh, leobottari.com, that's L-E-O-B-O-T-T-A-R-Y.com. The company is Peer Innovation. Peerinnovation.co takes you to the exact same website. We'll put links to Leo's work. And if you have any interest in hiring Leo, working with Leo, there'll be links over at the website for you to do that. We appreciate you listening to the podcast and happy Valentine's Day. And I'll give you the last word.

Yeah. Um, just one other thing before we sign off, because, uh, here's a, you know, isn't just about, you know, yes, I would love to, you know, deliver a workshop or do a keynote certainly for, uh, your group or team. But on the other hand, uh, I'm actually doing a webinar for Seton Hall University next Thursday. Now I believe it's at 11 PM Eastern time. I'll have to double-check that. But I'm sure you'll see a lot advertised about it. And it's basically about how to maximize your experience at conferences. This is where we get to that— we've had this discussion where research basically says that you will forget 70% of what was put in front of you at a conference within 24 to 48 hours. And of course, that number plummets, you know, as the days goes on and you get sucked into your work. So what we're going to be talking about is how to go from, uh, basically forgetting 70% of what you learned to remembering 70% of what you learned and actually doing something with it. And the key to it, as you might imagine, spoiler alert here, are not the leaders and the workshop facilitators and the keynoters and all that. Your greatest resource for making that possible the other attendees at the conference. They're your peers. And so we're going to dive into that during the webinar, and we're looking forward to it. So with that, happy Valentine's Day to everyone, and we will see you next week. Bye now.

To learn more about our show and what we do, to submit questions to us, and to subscribe to What Anyone Can Do Podcast, please visit our website, whatanyonecandodo.com. What Anyone Can Do Podcast is hosted by Leo Battari and me, Randy Cantrell. Music provided by Kevin MacLeod is Vibe Ace, licensed under Creative Commons by Attribution 3.0 license. Thanks for watching or listening. We hope you'll share the podcast.