What Anyone Can Do James Orsini 1006

Welcome to our new show, What Anyone Can Do Podcast, with Leo Battari and me, Randy Cantrell. Our new show picks up where our last show, Year of the Peer, left off, highlighting the simple truth that who you surround yourself with matters, and that if we enlist the support of others, give back to those who give to us, and pay it forward for the next generation, we can do anything. Author and keynote speaker Leo Bottari and I will interview a diverse group of thought leaders who will share stories and insights that will help you succeed in business and in life.

How?

By doing the things anyone can do, but most of us never will. James Orsini is the chief operating officer for one of the largest independent social media digital advertising agencies, VaynerMedia, in New York City. James has about 30 years' experience in social and mobile media advertising, brand management, public relations, and Wall Street. You can follow him on Twitter @JimmyThePencil. We welcome James to the show.

James Orsini, welcome to What Anyone Can Do. It's a pleasure to have you here today.

It's good to be here, Leo. Thank you.

So first, we probably should give a little shout out to Seton Hall. Both of us are Seton Hall University graduates. Of course, I believe for you, you went undergraduate there, and I got my master's there, you know, years later. But kind of a fun shared experience, I think.

Absolutely. I just went to a great event there last Friday night, black tie for the Many Are One, where we honor some of our ex-alumni. It was really Really great experience.

That's really great. Well, you know, speaking of that, so here we, you know, a little mention of Seton Hall, but I think oftentimes, as I mentioned to our listeners, love to get a sense of kind of the arc of one's career and maybe some of the people who influenced you along the way. And to the extent you can share a little bit about that and then of course bring us right up to date to where you are, what you're doing today, and kind of paint that Vayner picture for us, that would be great.

Yeah, it's funny. I wrote an article that's shared often called "My Internship Changed My Life," and it's about so many of the people in my life who touched me in some way, shape, or form and why I give back the way I do to places like Seton Hall University where, you know, it was an on-campus interview for what is now KPMG where I I got my start as a public accountant and one of my clients was Saatchi Saatchi, you know, which led to 25 years' worth of career in this space. I did a brief stint at Goldman Sachs for a couple of years in the '80s and knew it was not for me. Wall Street was not my cup of tea per se. And I have spent time now in public relations what is now the MSNL Group. I've been in general market advertising at Saatchi Saatchi. I've been in branding at Interbrand. Most recently, before coming here, I was in mobile media for a company called Sito Mobile, which trades on the NASDAQ. And now here in, in the digital social space and so much more when it's part of Gary's world.

Well, it's quite the journey. From accounting to Gary's world, as you describe it.

Yeah, it's been a great career. And, you know, part of what I love so much about Gary and his persona is his quote, "You've had a wonderful career, and I hope the next 10 years with me are the best yet." So I'm 3 and a half years into that 10-year promise.

So far, so good.

So far so good. He's lived on his word. I mean, you know, it's hard to find people who stand by their word, and when you do, you stick with them.

Yeah.

So tell us a little bit about VaynerMedia, I think, so that people can get a real more complete sense of, you know, they obviously hear about Gary, they think they know VaynerMedia, but I think you can probably paint a clearer picture for us about what that would be, what that's all about.

It's kind of wild because anybody who thinks they know VaynerMedia actually does not know VaynerMedia. And that's because while the company is young at 9 years old, it has morphed and transitioned and expanded into multiple, multiple categories that you typically wouldn't find in a normal agency. So So yes, do we have the traditional strategy and account service and creative? Sure we do. Do we now have a 300-person media planning and buying division? Yes. Do we have a full-service 40,000-square-foot standalone production company? We do. Do we now have digital publishing properties under the gallery? The answer is yes. Do we now have our first SaaS model for media reporting under Tracer? Yes. Do we have a bunch of other components that you'd never find in the hallways of a traditional agency, like a 20-person e-commerce department, a 10-person smart products division, and various other offerings around talent— individual talent, that is— you know, where we help people who want to be like a Gary. How do I produce content, write books, get on the speaking circuit? We have a small business division called VaynerBeta, which focuses on companies that aren't necessarily the core of the Fortune 100 that we focus on here. So the answer, it just keeps going on and on and on. And Gary keeps introducing the next, he has an uncanny ability to see around the corners. And into the future, really.

James, is Tracer any sort of a case study as far as your culture goes and the fostering of creativity and innovation?

Yeah, well, you know, it's developed from within. Gary's a big proponent of side hustle and doing, you know, multiple things during the course of your day. People ask me all the time, does he sleep? And the answer is yes, he sleeps. He just does more when he's awake than any other human I've ever seen.

Um, he just doesn't document the sleep. He documents everything.

Yeah, he does, but it's dark. So you don't, um, uh, but yeah, this is, this is a culture of, um, fail fast, fix fast, learn fast, uh, test and optimization constantly. Um, uh, you know, it's, it's a very collaborative environment. Uh, you know, we're, uh, at this, uh, this stage, the average age is 27 years old. Um, so, uh, you know, uh, people are not necessarily possessive of their ideas, uh, but rather sharing and collaborative. They look for others to, uh, to have a hand in the mix and whether or not, you know, this could really become something that is worth something.

You know, uh, I think you speak to obviously there's many generations that we have in the workplace and obviously at a company your size, um, that's not a lot different, you know, for you and yet, In addition to kind of the way people think about collaboration or the way people may think about mentorship as the, the older, wiser mentor schooling the younger person, you actually do quite a bit of reverse mentoring, especially in a world that has changed quite a bit and where we have a lot to learn from younger people. How does that work, maybe both in a formal and an informal way at Vayner?

Well, that, that's been a real eye-opener for me. Um, uh, you know, I've spent a career, um, uh, and most recently imparting into others, right? There's, there's really no substitute for experience or wisdom, uh, which you tend to get with age. Um, but the ability to learn, uh, and apply, um, into, into current situations, right? Gary always talks about market for the year in which you live, right? So just recognizing how the mobile device today, the camera is today's keyboard, right? Where we used to write everything in my time. Now you take a picture of it. You're even doing that with search, right? And using voice instead of the keypad. So you just being able to adapt to those, those situations, recognizing that, um, a lot of what we were, uh, taught about millennials is simply untrue. Um, I find them to be collaborative. I find them not to be, uh, you know, lazy and, and self-centered. I find them to be inquisitive, um, and hungry. Um, and, um, uh, you know, just being able to work around them, see, how they are free to share. So, you know, I laugh when people are, you know, in a traditional sense trying to hide things like the salary of an employee. I said, listen, that was in our day. Talk about that. These guys are sharing pictures of themselves in compromised positions. You don't think they're talking about how much money they make? So, so it's just different and being able to to adapt to that.

James, do you find value in, especially in younger people, do you find value of naivete in the workplace?

Uh, I, Randy, what I find is that this is a company in an industry of fear. This is a fearless company. So, um, they're just not afraid to make a mistake and do it.

How come?

Um, because they learn from it and they adapt to it and they're not embarrassed by it. They just believe that a mistake is a part of life and they just get on with it. They don't sulk over it, which allows them to— Gary says, listen, you've made a world of getting around base by hitting singles and doubles, and that's great. And I swing for the fences every single time. I'll hit a grand slam once, I'll get hit in the head with a pitch the next time, and that's okay. I'm going to get back in the batter's box. So, you know, I was a guy who wore a helmet to speed down the bunny hill. It's just a difference, you know, but that's, that's what makes everybody unique here, Randy.

But that makes your company unique. I mean, your culture, you've got enough skins on the wall to be painfully aware that that's, that's the, the oddity.

I spent a lot of time telling a lot of people that there is nothing like this, uh, company in, in the marketplace right now and pay special attention because it is a disruptor. Uh, it is the Uber, the Airbnb, uh, of the advertising space.

Gary talks pretty regularly about how he, he, one of his self-awareness values is that he doesn't expect anything. And yet, Leo and I, as, as business guys realize that sounds good. And I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't question it at all. I'm sure he's, he's right. But you, as an operating officer, we realized that we do have to have some expectations in the workplace performance-wise. How does that, how does that mesh when your CEO is operating from that place? And yet I know that as an operator, And he is too, but we do have to have these expectations.

Yeah, I think that's, uh, that's an important fact and not one to be taken lightly. He is an operating CEO. Um, the people that he surrounded himself with on the leadership merely scale the multifaceted dimensions of who and what he is. He's a creative CEO. He's a strategic CEO. He's an operating CEO. He's an empathetic CEO. So, you know, we just scale him in a particular dimension, but he is not without what it is that we all, you know, bring to the table here. And he's keenly aware of those around him and realizes not everybody has the same drive. He doesn't expect everybody to be like him. But he does want to know through your self-awareness, what is it that you want to do? Because there's probably a role for you if he knows that you are, you know, the soccer mom who needs to be on the side of the field at 6:00 PM. That's okay. Okay. But don't sell yourself as the woman who's going to be here until 2:00 AM if that's not who and what you can be. Right. So, so I think it all starts with honesty. Um, and it all starts with a caring nature. You know, this is a company that has, uh, probably less than 10% voluntary turnover rate in an industry that averages close to 27 or 28%. People want to be here. Um, but he's okay if you want to be here for 2 years, learn all you can from him, and then be his competitor. More power to you. He's up for the challenge.

Leo.

Now, I just think that that's great stuff. I think the honesty part is really key, isn't it? I mean, and how do you get people who come into an organization and give them that comfort level that really being honest and really being frank and knowing that they can trust others to do so as well, I think does become the exception rather than the rule and probably is, I would imagine, a real key to the strength of the culture that you've got there.

Yeah, and it comes from the top down. You know what I mean? I'm attracted to Gary because I find myself to be similar in that we are the same people in every environment. He's the same guy at the Jets game as he is at his house, as he is in his office, as he is with his various RSE investment companies, the same guy. And people often ask me, James, how do you do as much as you do? You're part of this big company, you sit on 3 boards, you have a wonderful loving family that you're involved in, you're active in your church. It's because I'm the same guy in every one of those venues. I don't try to change masks and be one way in one thing and one way in another. When you are the same through and through, you can get much more done in a faster, more efficient manner.

So with everyone moving quickly like that and with the growth that you'll likely continue to experience. How do you go about maintaining that culture, and what are the things today that you look for in people that are the difference between the people who might be successful somewhere else but may not be successful with you? So what are those things that you look for, and how do you want to make sure that you're able to continue to scale that culture as effectively as you have?

So, uh, what matters most here are the humans for Gary, which is why, you know, he has a chief heart officer, as you know, from Claude, who you guys have spent some time with. Um, she has a big department to care for it. Um, you know, it, it's, it's sort of reflection of what's most important, right? If you, if you're in WPP, the largest department is the finance department. If you're in Omnicom, the largest department is the legal department. If you're in VaynerMedia, the largest department is the human resource department, right? So, that's really with what matters. We're not short of people who want to be here. I think we have probably 100+ applications for every open position that we have. And sometimes we get it wrong. You know, it's not like, you know, we have a magic secret sauce here. But when people genuinely want to be a part of, of the movement, if you will. And, you know, we work hard to define the roles that we need, and we can be selective because the pipe is full, if you will. But everybody has an open-door policy here, even straight through to Gary. You know, we worked in a day where you'd never schedule 15 minutes with the chief operating officer just to see what's on their plate and what they do. You know, and here I handle 6 of those type meetings per week. You know, could be a copywriter, could be a strategist, could be an account person who just was encouraged to spend some time understanding, you know, my role here. And that was a key learning for me too, right? People ask me, so who's your admin? I said, I don't have an admin. Okay, so who works directly for you? I said, I don't have a department. They said, well, how do you get things done? I said, well, I take time to learn what 800 people do, and then I use them to get done what it is that I need done. And I had to learn that to be the case because Gary's vision moves so fast. If I had 2 people in my department, I'd be limited to the capacity of those 2 people. So by leveraging the 800 that are here across the, you know, 6+ locations, then I am, you know, able to remotely keep pace with his vision.

So it's like having 800 direct reports.

Well, you know, it's like having 800 people collaborate with you. Uh, you know, I don't, I, I'm not a ruler because I tell people what my title is. You know, I became a leader because people chose to follow.

Yeah.

James, talk to me about the, uh, the value of, of questions. My sense of Gary is super curious. And very self-aware, but I know that we see him talk and he says it over and over. We don't see him listening. He's branding himself. I get that. But that kind of insight doesn't come from somebody who's just running at the mouth all day, every day, and not listening to other people.

I'm curious of the role of questions in that whole listening Yeah, you'd be doing yourself an injustice by not thinking that he doesn't listen. He is an attentive listener. He observes very well. And as a result, he knows when to question the status quo.

Right.

So, so part of what he said to me is, look, you have 25 years of mistakes that I don't want to make. So I'm gonna hire you and you're gonna help me avoid the potholes so I can move faster. And then oftentimes we'll talk about, you know, how something works, right? So, so, uh, hey, how does a commercial come to be? Well, you know, it's, uh, it's storyboards, it's animatics, it's, uh, um, it's focus groups. And then if it passes, great. And if it doesn't, you do it again. And he's like, yeah, that's, that's silly. I'm not gonna do it that way. Um, I'm gonna produce, uh, um, uh, reasonably priced, uh, videos, multiple videos, put them all on Facebook, have them all working for you, and then take, take the best performing one and bring it up to television with some minor tweaks. You know, that was— he just broke a model that's been in place for 100 years, but because he's just not afraid to question it and try something new. And it's okay if it doesn't work. He's just simply not gonna crawl into a hole if something that he did doesn't, doesn't work. Um, and I think that, that fearlessness, you know, um, and, and we talk about thinking outside of the box. He talks about boxlessness. There is no box, right? So it just takes it to another level. So, you know, he's playing chess on a three-dimensional level. Uh, and a lot of times, uh, you know, part of my role is to help people look at the third level because we've been so trained to be focused myopically on the first level. Uh, so, uh, in, in some way, sometimes I'm a little decoder ring, uh, into the operation, uh, for him to, to make sure that his vision continues to scale.

Do you have a way of evaluating, um, failure? And I mean this from a standpoint of how do you tend to know whether some— the difference between whether something was a bad strategy, versus a good strategy that was just poorly executed?

Yeah, if it's not bringing speed and value. That's our point of differentiation, you know. Gary says that those are two things which are not subjective, you know, bringing speed and value, and then later hoping for, you know, the award-winningness of that work, which is kind of what we're doing now. He's getting a much better appreciation for the creativity and recognizing the value of good creative. He's brought on now a chief production officer to help in the making of rather than just the creating of it. So, you know, this business and his vision is maturing as well. I would say more than half of our leadership team has been hired in the last 18 months.

You know, we've talked a lot about, you know, kind of internal and culture and all that, but now when you have all these people, they are also VaynerAmbassadors, right? They are, you know, and I know that you've got a point of view about networking and effective networking and what that looks like. So how, what does that look like for you and your people?

Well, um, networking is, has to be taught. Really. And, and, um, you know, we spent a lot of times— in fact, it's, it's one of my, uh, one of my gripes with not only Seton Hall but so many of the universities now is that the career development centers are, are broke. They were built at a time in the '80s and when we all got jobs, right? So all you had to do is teach somebody a resume, show somebody how to do a resume, give them a few interview pointers, and off we went. I don't know anybody who I graduated with that didn't get a job. Uh, and now it's just not like that. You know, now if you're not showing people how to properly lever, uh, people in their spheres of influence, uh, to help with an introduction, uh, I just gave you a quote of 100+ resumes for every open position. I asked, do you believe we're going through 100 resumes? Um, For every position, rhetorically, the answer is no. But I can tell you, if somebody on our leadership team or even somebody in the hallways— it doesn't have to be our leadership team— says, hey, you know, a friend of mine is in that mix, I think they'd be a good addition, we pay attention to that. We'll pull that resume out. Not saying that they're going to be guaranteed a job, but they would at least get looked at. And that's, that's part of it, you know, and good networking doesn't promise the impossible, but, but it gives people a shot. So, you know, hey, do you know somebody? That's how I came to VaynerMedia, right? I sat next to AJ Vaynerchuk at a basketball game 9 years ago, Seton Hall University basketball game to be exact. And in talking, he said, you know, my brother and I and a couple guys started this social media advertising company. And I said, great, you know, I'm Chief Operating Officer of Saatchi Saatchi. Would you like to come down and see what it's like when you get big. Took me up on the offer. Now, did I have to say that? It was a stranger. No, I didn't have to say that. Uh, but he took me up on the offer, uh, and he came and we stayed in touch because as his company grew, he would call and say, hey, you know somebody who does this? How would you handle that? Have you ever done that? And I would take the call. Was there going to be anything in it for me? I did not take the call with that expectation. I was in a position to answer. And so I did. And then multiple years later when I was at Cito Mobile, I had developers in Boise, Idaho who developed something that they thought would be right for Facebook. And they're like, who can we show this to? And I said, you know, I know this kid, he's got a social media advertising company. Let's show it to him. And I called AJ up and he's like, yeah, I'm on Park Avenue. Come on in. And I came in and I realized, oh my God, this is like a real company.

He's got like 250 people.

This is no longer 4 people. 4 guys in a cubicle. And, you know, fast forward, I had a 3-year contract. I stood 3 and a half years. It ended. And I was just calling AJ to tell him I was going to get back into the big advertising space in New York City and I'll see you around. That was the call. And he was like, hey, James, did you ever meet my brother Gary? I'm like, no. He said, did you ever hear of my brother Gary? I'm like, not really. And he's like, well, why don't you do a quick Google search? You know, and, and I did. And that's how I got to this seat.

How about that?

Yeah. It's a great story.

It's a great story. And I think, uh, you know, and I think a real lesson from that story too, and Randy, you've talked about this so many times, is when you get involved in things, I think for the right reasons. And, you know, because we either want to pay it back, pay it forward, you know, whatever. Um, You know, much like James talked about, you know, his first job and thinking about people who helped him along the way. And when there were opportunities to help others, you do that. And I think when good people do those kinds of things, these are the kinds of, you know, as unexpected as it may have been, right? Uh, here you are sitting there today.

Truly, truly good people just do the right thing, you know? Yes.

And that's something else that Gary says, you know, doing the right thing is always the right thing. And I've come to stand by that phrase as well because more than a phrase, it's a mantra. But it is, when I left Saatchi Saatchi, there was a small testimonial video done by some of the leadership at Saatchi that was then shared with the shareholders of of Citi Mobile. And Kevin Roberts, the global CEO at the time, said, you know, James does the right thing even when people are not looking. Speaks volumes, you know, but that's a big reputation. That's a heavy mantle. And you have to— it's not easy walking that walk every single day because if you wear that mantle, there's a lot of people just looking for you to trip up to say, ah, see, you know, there's no holier than thou here. That's not about that, but it's about, uh, you know, being who and what you say you are. Uh, that was my attraction to Gary. He is gen— now he may not be your cup of tea and that's okay too, but he's genuine.

Yeah.

Well, you can't fake it.

So exactly.

Well, and this is where you've talked a lot about just the value of first of all, of being authentic. But I think secondly too, when you stay true to your values, when you do the right thing, to your point, it is always the right thing. Um, you know, I've certainly had situations in my career where things like that have happened and you think you're going to take a short-term hit or whatever. And in most times you don't even do that. You know, I mean, you, you really just, um, you know, Again, I think you do the right thing and good things happen and people respond accordingly and you can rally, you know, people around this idea that, oh, you said this was important and it's going to cost us money and you're still sticking to that value, right? And then the reality is that it doesn't end up costing any money at all because everyone kind of rallies around and says, all right, we're going to kind of do what we need to do to replace the income or whatever it is.

Exactly. And really, you know, people are just amazed that, you know, I pick up the phone and there's always somebody on the other end to take that call. And I said, listen, don't be amazed. That's, that's 30 years of reputation building that, you know, you, you'd be, you're surprised because of the lack of genuineness that you have around you. But you know, when you're a guy who does what he says he's going to do, and there's an expectation to that, you know, there's going to be people on the other end of that call. And at that moment, this is what I talk about in that article, The Authentic Network. I'm not doing it necessarily because there's something in it for me. Okay. Certainly not today. No. Is there an expectation? So the answer is yes. Like, you know, one of the things that I was talking to Seton Hall about, and when it came to networking, you know, I said, listen, networking isn't, hey, here's a resume of a friend of mine. Okay, that's, that's introduction. Networking has an expectation on the end of it that if I'm taking the time to ferret this person out and to serve them up for you, I have an expectation of my, on my end that they're going to at least pay, pay, you're gonna pay some attention to that. And I just had to deal with that with one of my creative directors in Chattanooga where, you know, I, I served up somebody. Um, and, uh, you know, it was a little late in the process. The thing was closed, the loop was closed. And I said, okay, no worries. But next time, a phone call, right? At least you're going to give the guy 15 minutes on the phone. Okay. And he's like, noted, James, point taken. So, you know, I'm okay to correct people too if I, you know, if I feel they're straying outside of the expectation.

Well, I think the other expectation, um, you know, goes the other way in that people who you send to somebody, they can trust that you have confidence in that person and that they are absolutely worthy of— you're not just sending sending somebody over there who, fingers crossed, may or may not show up, right?

No, I take the time to take the meeting, uh, and then quite frankly, if they're not right, I won't send them.

Yeah.

Uh, you know, but I, uh, you know, I'm like, yep, I'll keep it in mind. And if something comes up, I'll let you know. Uh, yeah, but I really like to get there. I said, yeah, let me, uh, I'll talk to him about that. You know, uh, and because there's times where I know this is not a fit, it's not the right expectation. Uh, you know, I'm not going to make the introduction.

James says the headcount there has continued to escalate and presumably will continue that. What are the friction points that you're finding against collaboration, or are you?

So, so we're in a collaborative environment. I don't think it's that pressure point. Is there's a difference between swelling and growing, and both get you big and one's healthy. So we need to make sure that we are growing and not swelling in a particular case. And remember, as simplistic as it sounds, anything that is not growing is dying. Right?

So give us the difference between your, your definition of the difference between swelling and growing. Yeah.

I think, you know, there's, there's a— in this industry, we, we tend to bloat. Hey, we just won a big piece of business, gotta ramp up, need 35 people. Okay. And oftentimes we'll do it and then realize, ooh, you know, I hired 35 media people. I really needed probably 20 media and 15 creative and strategy. So, you know, you swelled. Now, you know, oftentimes that'll stay in the hole. And this has happened whether I was at Interbrand or Saatchi or MS&L Group. You know, whatever it is, right? I've been fortunate enough to really have seen the depth and breadth of this industry, right? Started in public relations, moved to branding, got to general market advertising, was in mobile media, now in digital. So I have been really fortunate to see it. And it's funny how we all kind of do it the same way, right? So really any service sector company, right? Law firm, accounting firm, architectural firm, we all kind of do it the same way. So it's important to manage your assets.

So how do you fight that? How do you fight bloat?

Well, in a service sector company, you realize that your assets go down the elevator at night and you hope they come back, right? So factors of natural attrition help with that. Point it direction, you know, so, so getting some, some proven success under your belt before hiring more. Okay. I think it's really difficult to manage 20 new people coming in at the same time. I don't care how great of a manager you are when you're hiring, especially if you're in an empathetic company. That cares about individual needs. OK? So you know, you've got to onboard that right. And you've got to make sure that you're properly— one of the things that we've been spending a lot of time on, and Claude will tell you this, is the internal training of our management. You know, let leaders lead. But teach them how to lead. Right? Teach them how to mentor. You know, this was a company that went from a Pied Piper type type approach, you know, with— and Gary will tell you he runs a multiple dictatorship, I think, to now very senior players. He's got a, you know, he's got a dozen senior leaders around him. Well, those two have to play in the sandbox well together, right? And then their teams beneath them as it cascades. So, you Managing people at all levels in a service sector company is the greatest challenge, and some do it better than others, and we're still learning.

As Gary has assembled the senior leadership team, I'm curious what you can share as far as the fit, the fit of all of you guys and gals together, and what has that looked like as you guys have evolved?

Yeah, I think, I think, um, uh, you know, part of my role is helping him identify some of those pieces. So, um, um, you know, we have a CFO who's been here about a year and a half now. There's nothing— there wasn't anything wrong with his previous CFO, uh, but, but the notion was the guy came on when it was $12 million with the notion that the company would get to $100 million, and it did. Okay, so now it was time for the next phase. Um, In that particular case, you know, Gary's vision dictated the type of person. He wanted to be integrated, and we found somebody, and this happened to be somebody I worked with in the past, but we found somebody who worked in an integrated environment. He wanted to be international. We found somebody who lived in both London and in Singapore. He wanted to be $500 million, and you know, the guy was at Sapien Consulting, which was like $505 million. So, that dictates, you know, he wanted a chief client officer. He's describing somebody to help scale him on the account side. Somebody, you know, with their own Rolodex at the C-level suite. Somebody who could help manage account services and scale him in that respect. You know, we hired a woman who was a global CMO over at Interbrand. you know, who fit that bill. Most recently now we hired a chief production officer because he said, you know what, the making of the product is every bit as important to me as the creation of the product. It was time to bring in somebody who was noted for, you know, making good product. And, you know, we got a guy who was over at McCann and ran the craft studios as well. So, um, his vision dictates the type of leader that we put around the table. Uh, Claude was, was one of those people, right? He really needed somebody to help scale him on the people end. Uh, and, uh, you know, she was somebody who was in our hallways, who left our hallways, who he then said, you know what, you belong back in here in a different role. And that role, you know, is to help scale me on the people side.

So speaking of that, as we kind of wind up to a close here, when you talk about vision, so what's next for you guys? What are you kind of prepared to talk about in terms of kind of what we can look forward to over the next few years from Vayner?

Well, you know, Gary is building an empire, but don't lose sight of really what it is that the ultimate goal is. Uh, he wants to eventually acquire orphaned or abandoned brands and run them through his machine and increase their value and then flip those brands to accumulate enough wealth to buy the Jets. He has been very public about that. Uh, that is his vision. Um, so, so what is in this hallways are, are, uh, things that will help us get there where the attention is. I sit out, I'm going to turn this, the screen here so you could see that is a new Twitch studio that we just built 2 weeks ago. Because, you know, he's on the cutting edge of, of what's going to be next for Twitch TV. So, you know, I've now downloaded the app, I've subscribed to his channel, I'm learning about it as fast as it is because it's like 10 feet away from my office. But, It is, you know, will he eventually find himself as a competitor to Hulu and Netflix doing over-the-top content? Who knows? I mean, we've built a studio that would enable us to have that. You know, when he hired me, he asked, can you describe what you do in one sentence? I said, yeah, I take dreams and visions and make them into action plans. And he's like, great, you're hired, because I got a lot of dreams and visions. So we're here to, you know, to help scale that, that vision. And, you know, you can't really bottle it up to say what's next, but stay tuned.

It's awesome, James. We can't thank you enough for the time. We appreciate it. We know you're a really busy guy, and we know that our audiences have found big value in all of this. And for the entrepreneurs that are out there, who no doubt have been paying attention to Gary for a long, long time. So you're one of those guests we don't have to put a bunch of links up in the show notes. Everybody knows how to find what you guys are all about. But the heartbeat that he is and the practitioner even that he is, but you and Claude and the rest of the team there, kudos, well done. Thanks for being here today.

It's my pleasure to join you, Leo and Randy. And, uh, uh, and you ended on a nice note because it is a team. Uh, it is a team that helps bring his dream, uh, to, uh, to reality.

Thanks, James.

Come on.

Okay, guys. Thank you.

To learn more about our show and what we do, to submit questions to us and to subscribe Subscribe to What Anyone Can Do Podcast, please visit us at whatanyonecando.com. Podcast is hosted by Leo Battari and me, Randy Cantrell. Our assistant producer is Katie Rutkin. Music provided by Kevin MacLeod is Vibe Ace, licensed under Creative Commons by Attribution 3.0 license. Thanks for watching or listening. What Anyone Can do. Please share the podcast. See you next time.