What Anyone Can Do: Leo & Randy On Understanding (Season 2020, Episode 4)

Welcome to the What Anyone Can Do podcast with Leo Battari and me, Randy Cantrell. This show picks up where our previous show, You're the Peer, left off, highlighting the simple truth that who you surround yourself with matters, and that if we enlist the support of others, give back to those who give to us, and pay it forward for the next generation, we can do anything. Author and keynote speaker Leo Battari and I talk with a diverse group of thought leaders who will share stories and insights that will help you succeed in business and in life.

How?

By doing the things anyone can do, but most of us never will.

Welcome back to another episode of What Anyone Can Do, the podcast. This is season 2020. The, uh, well, we're up to episode 4. Episode 4. Today is January 30th, 2020. As we hit the record button, I am Randy Cantrell coming to you from Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas. He's in San Diego, California now, by way of, well, by way of Canada, I guess, most recently. Leo Bottari. The website is leobottari.com. More about that later. Let's hear a little bit about Canada.

Oh, you know what, I've been going there quite a bit lately in different parts of Canada too. Been to Vancouver and Ottawa and Edmonton and a few times to Toronto. And it's been, it's been great fun. And it's, it's just kind of one of those things that like anything, right? Who you surround yourself with matters and word of mouth and things like that. So all of a sudden, Somebody hears that you did something here and they liked it, and then someone else wants to do it. And, you know, so now it's become I'm traveling to Canada in the wintertime, you know. Yeah. And, uh, it's funny because, you know, I'll be there and they'll say, oh, where are you coming in from? I said, oh, Southern California. Like, oh good weather. But it's been phenomenal. But, you know, as we were talking before we get started, I, I I will say that I worked with, spent really a whole day, part of it for my listening for understanding, which is the kind of the topic of this, right? Really getting to watch this cross-functional work team in action, going through a whole agenda of things that they were doing. I was a bit of just a fly on the wall and observing how they engage one another and all. And then I did a whole half-day workshop with them. About how they could take this game that I think operates at a really high level. They're all really great people around the table, excellent at what they do. Um, you know, probably as a lot of organizations, they can tend to get siloed. Why? Because people get really busy and they get sucked into their own area in a way that makes it difficult for them to always engage with other parts of the company, um, as often as they can. But, but they do at least come to these monthly meetings. They come really well prepared. And there's a couple things that I was really impressed with. One is that some of the, some of the biggest challenges when you put a cross-functional work team together like this is that they come there as if they are the advocates for their department, right? So you get a bunch of these people with, you know, so we had yesterday there was 16 people in a room, right? So, so if you had the— everyone's wearing their department hat, you get 16 different agendas, and you can only imagine what a What a shit show that is, right? I mean, let's face it. Um, but what was really impressive is that they understood that the way to come to this meeting isn't to be the advocate or the champion for your department. It's, I'm going to put my enterprise hat on now. I'm here because I'm going to think about what's best for the business. I'm going to think what was best for the company and the organization. Now, understanding I come at it through IT or marketing or HR or sales or operations or whatever that happens to be. And that informs the way I can contribute. But it's very much about, um, so you don't get into all the territorial nonsense. You don't have people fighting over this or the other thing because I want to keep my stuff, I want to keep my budget, I want to do this and the other thing. They realize that, you know, when you start looking at it over the long haul Hey, there's some years where things are going to shift this way, other years where we're going to do this and we're going to pivot and we're all going to be in it together and grow and do what we can do. So I was particularly impressed with their ability to put their enterprise hat on and leave their, you know, stuff, you know, at the door with regarding their departments. But beyond that, I think the way they spoke to one another, the way an issue would come up and somebody would say something, they might disagree, they might do whatever, but they were always about asking questions. It was never jumping down anyone's throat. It was never about making assumptions about a motive behind what someone said and why, you know, or anything like that. Someone would say something, they said, well, you know, I'm not sure I agree with you on that. Tell me more. Tell me where you're coming from with that so I can better understand it. And then in many cases, the person will go, oh, I didn't realize it was coming from that perspective. You know, here's kind of my thinking on it and why. And clearly, when you have different people from different departments, you know, contributing, they're, they're going to see the world in a different way. And then it becomes up to, you know, the group together to basically say, all right, there are all these valid considerations. Here, but now what's best for the enterprise, what's really going to be best for the company. And I was just really taken by how well this particular senior leadership team at this client that I visited was— they were just really great at it. And I think it's instructive for us in every, every aspect of our life, in every relationship we have, And that's kind of what we were chatting about as well.

And this was, this is already a high-performing team that you visited.

Yeah. And what's it say too about a company who—

what I was fixing to say—

gets me involved, brings me in because they're already good. We now, how do we be great? And that's a, that's a more fun challenge for me too, because it's sure who wants to do the, you know, the 911. Call, right? It's like, all right, you know, it's, it's much more about having a really talented group of people who get it and say, okay, now let's see about where other opportunities are because you're already kind of wired in this way pretty well. So now how do we kind of take it up, you know, a few notches? And then that's what was fun.

Yeah. Which is great. Yeah. Well, listen, we, you and I both have done plenty of 911 stuff. I mean, to get people from being dysfunctional to functional is, is a lot of hard work for everybody, you know, and growing from good to great is, is hard work too, but at least they've got some really good habits already established and a culture that kind of fosters it.

Yeah. There's no question that there are certain situations, you know, that you leave and you go, But nothing— we're not going to change anything here.

Yeah, right. I was listening, I was listening. Yeah, I was listening in the car on the radio this afternoon, you know, and of course here in Dallas it's the number 4 market in the country. So, you know, we've got major stations that are up at the— or down at the Super Bowl in Miami right now this week. And they were interviewing a player who had played for Dallas and he had also played for Belichick up in New England. And he was coming, he said, you know, playing for Belichick it's not much fun. You know, you go there to win. The winning's fun. You know, it's not— he was talking about some of the coaches and even named them, you know, who really kind of ran a really lax, loose ship. They didn't do much winning, but the players, you know, the players had a good time except they hated losing. So same kind of, same kind of a thing I think that we find with teams.

Well, the attention to detail, you know, certainly in that situation with Belichick and with a lot of really great coaches, But, you know, I just think that when you— you know, we talk a little bit about, yes, you have certain cultures, for example, that are not nearly as advanced as the one I was in, right? No question about that. However, that doesn't make them bad. They just function differently. So, again, that's now up to me. Now, when I go in and I see that culture and I see, all right, where did it come from? How did it evolve? What does it look like? How does it serve the organization, right? There's all these kinds of things. And then, and then, as you know, when I work with them using the Five Factors framework, the subject areas resonate with everyone. There's no real controversy around any of that. But, and they, and what makes it work is they get to shape it for themselves, right? So they get to define who does having the right people around this table, what does that look like? What do we expect from one another, right? When one group is going to have different expectations of one another than someone else. Does that make somebody right or somebody wrong? No, but you know, it's different, right? And then you go around and do all these kinds of things. And again, I think, you know, because I have the comparison, I might be able to look at it in my opinion. I might look at a particular culture or way people do things and kind of gravitate toward that. But at the same time, you know, a lot of what I do is really more about guiding them through, helping them take what they're doing and what their strengths are and where the successes are and how to just bring it up, you know, to another place where they can work together more effectively. And part of that does start with how do you start hearing people and hearing what's going on. You know, we used a pretty And this happens when consultants come into situations like this too, and you're approached by different employees. And, you know, one employee wants to basically say, yeah, I'm the one who really knows what's going on here. You know, these other guys, you know, they're really good, but, you know, and you get a little bit of that. Or it's kind of like what we talked about before we started when, like, so I think for most people going into marriage counseling, they need pre-marriage counseling first, right? Because I think for most couples, their primary objective going into a marriage counseling session is to prove to the counselor that they're not the crazy one, right? That this other person, yeah, you know, see what I mean? You know, kind of thing. So there's no listening for understanding. There's nothing. There's no— certainly not in the first meeting, but there's not a lot of things going on there. And you can see what the challenge is. To cut through all that kind of nonsense before you can actually get people to say, all right, let's take a breath. I want you to hear what he's saying. I want you to hear what she's saying. You know, assuming we're trying to be open and truthful with one another here, let's at least accept that as the premise by which we're operating and let's go from there.

Um, but, well, but when your client, when these people are opening, when they're asking questions, even if they, even if they preface that question with, I may not agree with you, or I don't agree with you, but tell me more. I keep coming back in a lot of my work to, you know, to the curiosity or the lack thereof in groups, not necessarily teams, but it exists there as well, that fosters aggressiveness and arrogance and, you know, all the ego stuff that can so derail a team when I'm not curious enough about you and I'm not curious enough about why you think what you think. I just know you're wrong. You know, to your point with a marriage situation, you know, so kudos for them for, for at least beginning the conversations with questions so that they can try to have better understanding.

Yeah, they totally do. And they, um, yeah, they, they definitely, you know, approach it, uh, very much in that way. It's kind of interesting. So I've run across, for example, here's an interesting, I think, example of something that has come up. This was like several years ago. But it was a CEO who got involved in a lot of different stuff, made suggestions about, you know, kind of what was going on. In his mind, he believed he was making suggestions. For his people listening to him, there was nothing suggesting about it. That meant do it.

Yeah, mandates.

Now you can go back and forth about whether it's him not being aware or the employees literally just being— because why? Because they were beaten at their last company, right? By a CEO who was very much that person, like, My little suggestion there, that means get your ass on it and get it done, right? I mean, so, and when you have all these different people who come from all these different places, they're not going to see the same thing the same way at the same time. And recognizing that and, and trying to understand your people and understand who they are, where they come from, not just what they do at this moment for your company, but really a bit of who they are and kind of crawl inside what that looks like. So when you are communicating to them or listening to them, you do it in a way that's far more informed, right, about, you know, with what's going on. And, you know, like I said, that situation with the particular CEO was— and, you know, in fairness too, we don't always we're not always good about recognizing how we come across to other people, right? So, the, the classic example, I think, I forget whether I ever wrote about this or not, I know I've told the story, um, but I was at, um, I think it was, yeah, it was at the William Cook Agency, and it was a woman who was working there, and we, you know, she, we had her, um, she was there for about 3 months, and, you know, she's great, And, um, um, but about 3 months into it, I had like 4 employees come into my office, like in a group, and which never happened in this way. And they said, hey, we got to tell you, like, this is the last thing, you know, this is not how we roll, but like every time we ask this new person to like help us do stuff, cause that's what we do when stuff needs to get done. We all kind of pitch in and make it happen. Says she kind of just tells us no. "Not doing that. It's not my job. You go do it. I'm going home," or whatever, right? So they started getting really ticked about it. My response to this in that moment was, "God, that's really funny because every time I ask her to do something, she's all over it." So these guys start looking at one another really confused and they said— because I was president of the subsidiary, right? So they look at me like, You think that you asking her to do something and us asking her to do something is the same thing? And to be honest with you, in many respects, I would have hoped so. That's what I thought I was kind of doing at the place where we just help one another, because there were plenty of times I was pitching in and stuffing folders or doing whatever it took, you know, in terms of that stuff. It was in, in so many instances, we were all in it together. It really didn't occur to me honest to God, that she would be reacting differently to me than she would anyone else. So I just looked really stupid because I was unaware, you know. And, and, but, and it makes you think all the time about, you know, everything that I said, you know, was, was kind of live ammo as far as folks. And you really have to be understanding about how that is received, you know, by people. And I had to learn from them and listen to them about how that's received and what that feels like. And then conversely, I had to do a good job of communicating and saying, all right, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna do that from time to time. You're gonna invite me to a meeting and I'm gonna, you know, probably give you like 8 ideas or something like that. I'm gonna go and I'm not expecting you to do all of them. I'm not expecting you to do any of them if you don't want to. Come up with a better idea, I'm good. They didn't see it that way. They're like, well, Leo said we got to do it this way. And of course, people are like, no. But this is what you kind of get in those situations. But I think by and large, it's how do we get people to not make assumptions about people's motives or— where something comes from or it doesn't, or we can't, we just, our reaction hopefully, and this is where I think Craig Webber's work in conversational capacity really comes into play, is that if someone says something to us that we don't agree with, that we don't understand, or even if we've got history with this person, which even makes it that much more difficult because we're so quick to make assumptions about where something comes from. That we don't always follow that with a question. And not a question, obviously, in a way that makes— puts people on the defensive in a way, but asking the question in a manner that you're really curious about, like, tell me more about that, you know, because I want to understand what I'm missing or why you happen to see it in a way that is so completely opposite from the way I'm looking at the exact same situation. Let's talk about what that looks like. You know, 9 times out of 10, we're all— well, 100 times— 10 times out of 10, we're always going to learn something. That doesn't mean that we'll agree. It doesn't mean that we're supposed to. It doesn't mean you have to compromise. It doesn't mean any of that. But at least, if nothing else— you know, we had this conversation yesterday with the senior leadership team I was working with in terms of communicating with employees and how, for the most part, I think employees realize that every suggestion they make to their senior leadership team isn't going to get implemented. I mean, but yeah, I mean, anyone who's a grown-up who's gone to work long enough is that. However, if you can be that person that always makes that person feel heard, always, you know, ask questions and always, you know, um, and, uh, acknowledges and, you know, kind of in a small way celebrates the fact that somebody cared enough to come to you with this idea, this issue or something anyway, that we should think about it that way instead of being dismissive about it and telling people they're wrong.

Well, as a leader, the 4 people that came into your office and told you that, I mean, they had a very different perspective, but I mean, there's proof positive of the power of the diversity of viewpoints. And how you can benefit just by listening and understanding where they're coming from because their perspective was very different than yours.

Well, and it helped. And of course now the assumption also could have been that I knew what was going on and I didn't care. I didn't do anything about it. Right. Which now has these people filling in the narrative, right? That, okay, well, if she doesn't have to do it, then why do I have to do it? And it becomes like a whole rolling effect of, you know, whatever. They were right to tell me. Clearly, we all learned something from my response to that, and we course-corrected that pretty quickly. And it, of course, made me think about that in a whole lot of different ways in terms of—

Sure.

The fact that I think when you're making that transition of being one of the crew to having to lead the crew, then there's just some differences there, you know? I mean, and this kind of still, I think, informs the way I think about the fact that I think the leader is very much a part of the team. I don't think they're apart from it. I think you've got a role as a leader, but I think you are absolutely a member of that team. And, you know, we'd all—

Talk a little bit about that. I mean, what's the, you know—

Well, part of what we did—

Because I agree with you, of course.

In looking at Dave Logan's work with tribal leadership, he talks a lot about triads. So when we were looking at some of the stages of culture that typically run companies, and one of them being stage 3, which is the I'm great, you're not kind of leadership model, you know, it's the, you know, leader who's very command and control, a lot of dyad relationships with, uh, employees. There's not much of a team thing going on there. It's very much the people who report directly into this leader are— they're good, but they'll never be as good as the leader is kind of thing. And there's always that, you know, thing going on. Um, and we've probably all done it, you know, in our evolution as leaders and when we've taken different positions and all of that, you know. Um, but clearly when you're running a peer group There's no way you're going to run a peer group of a bunch of CEOs and be the "I'm great, you're not" version. You'll get eaten alive in that. You know, that's not really very healthy. It's— and, you know, and when we think about what we learn about groups and how it informs teams, it kind of makes sense that a team leader shouldn't— it shouldn't be really different. And so instead of being apart from that team that sits there kind of doing its thing and you just kind of check in with them every once in a while or more bark at them every once in a while with what they should be doing. Speaking of barking, there's Archie.

You cued him up perfect.

Wow. And you know, it's—

But so many leaders do, you know, so many leaders are, I'm the guy at the front of the room, right? I mean, I'm the guy in the head chair. And therefore, you know, that, you know, but it's just hierarchy, right? I mean, fundamentally to me, it's just that whole hierarchy thing. I don't know, I'm a guy that gets irked by this phrase servant leadership because I just don't— I think it's redundant. I don't, I don't see any other kind. I mean, any other kind of leadership is tyranny. Well, there is, but you know, there are, but I think you're absolutely right. I mean, I think there's autocracy, you know, where it's my way or the highway, and then there's dictatorship, which is just tyranny. And to me, any other leadership is tyranny at some level. You know, you're either there to make the group better or not. I mean, I don't know.

Yeah, I mean, you provide them, you know, I think do for them things that they can't do for themselves. It's a combination of challenge and support, right? But to do either, you have to understand them and you have to ask questions. And if you're going to be leading a meeting— and actually what's really interesting is the more that you actually ask questions, the more people believe they need to be prepared when they show up to these meetings too. That's right. And when it's clear that you're just asking reasonable, fair questions so that you have an understanding of where they're coming from so that you can be more supportive and more helpful if that's necessary. Then, you know, that's a really good thing. But it tends to put them in a position where they're far more prepared and they trust that this isn't a gotcha moment. You know, they're not trying to— right, no one's trying to show you up in front of a group of people. They're just trying to ask you a question so that they better understand what's going on. And this is where trust comes into play, of course, with the leader too. But, um, you know, I, I just think that if our conversational style, whether it's in relationships where we reference marriage counseling, whether it's in groups, whether it's teams, whether it's with our friends, whether it's, you know, you hear about the crazy Thanksgivings that people have when they can't talk about anything, particularly politics or whatever, because people just flip out as opposed to taking a breath and actually, you know, not have it be a debate. No one's going to solve anything. Sitting at Thanksgiving dinner. Nothing's going to happen as a result of their— no, I win, you don't, because, you know, I probably, you know, got my talking points from TV last night, you got yours from the opposing channel 4 nights ago, so you may not be as fresh in your mind as I am. So now I look like I'm more informed and I'm the winner because I have a fresher memory of— right. And by the way, if I were asked And most folks, when they tend to debate that way, which is what it is, if you ask them anything beyond what those little things that they remember, there's nothing there. You know, 9 times out of 10, there's nothing that really informs that in any real way. But it makes us feel good that we can pop off a line or we can, you know, do whatever, redirect and whatever it looks like. But again, I think going back to this group and thinking about leading our own teams, being on teams, being in groups. How can we hear things and start getting curious, start listening for understanding, and start thinking about learning, not judging? And I think the more that we can adopt that kind of mindset, no matter where we are or what we're doing, The more we're going to learn, the better we're going to be for it. And, you know, there's just no—

yeah, I agree. I mean, here we are on the cusp of the Super Bowl. You know, we clearly— I think most everybody agrees we've got the last two, the two best teams standing, perhaps. Well, no, not perhaps. We do have two of the certainly the better, if not the best, probably in most everybody's book that really studies that game more than I do. You know, two of the top five coaches probably in the league. And it ties into our conversation today of understanding. I've, I've had a lot of conversations this week with various clients about strategic planning. There are people, and I've got certain opinions about it, which are irrelevant, but in the sense that they really hold to the fact that if we can just get the, if we can just get the right strategic plan, And meanwhile, you can take a look at the teams, you can take a look at the groups, you can take a look at the organization, you can realize there's just in some cases a colossal lack of understanding. And it would be tantamount to either of these teams going into Sunday's game and, okay, you've got a great plan, you've got the great strategic plan, but if you don't have the players who are willing or capable of executing the plays, It ain't going to work. I just, I still continue to be amazed at so many of our problems, if not most of our problems, you know, we have met the enemy and he is us kind of a thing. It's us. It still is the power of the people in the room, you know, who can make a positive difference if they can somehow get out of their way and gain some better understanding and do good work. I told, I told a client just this week, I said, I, Give me a, give me a really cohesive, high-performing team of people. I don't, I don't need a strategic plan. They'll figure it out. Give me a great strategic plan and give me a group of people that are dysfunctional, won't listen to each other, won't work together, very unlike the team that you met with yesterday. I mean, they will wreck that plan in no time.

Yeah, and you know, we all know that the planning is crucial. The plan is a start, but there's also— we're talking about having to be open and listen and pay attention and all that, right? Because that's going to pivot. It's that whole, no, you know, plan survives contact with the enemy, right? Whether it's a lesson plan or a business plan, you know, with customers or whatever happens to be. Constantly have to be willing to look at it and adjust. The planning part of it is essential, but the, the listening for understanding piece of what you're putting out into the market and being able to be responsive to that becomes really crucial. It becomes crucial internally, and it becomes obviously very important externally as well. So, you know, I think anytime you see a company that's got that going for it— and also, by the way, any company worth its salt obviously is putting a strategic plan together based on what it can execute, right? So if you had 3 competitors and you gave them the exact same problem to solve for and you asked them to come up with a strategy for how they would do it, I would hope that all of those strategies might be quite different based on what the strengths of that particular organization are against that issue, right? So So, hopefully, if you're, you know, a football team where your running back sucks, you're probably not going to— your running game is terrible and you've got a rough offensive line. If you try to run the ball 80% of the plays, it's going to be a long day for you, you know. So, that's what I think people are really fascinated by looking at the— I think both teams have a lot of offensive weapons. There's a lot of speed in the field. There's a lot of— A lot of cool stuff going on, and it's going to be interesting to see against who they are playing on a given day based on everything that's going on, what the plan is for that day. And by the way, that'll be changing, and nobody waits till halftime anymore. That is changing on the fly.

Real time. Yeah.

When you watch these folks with their surfaces— That's right. —on the sidelines. Yeah. Who was it? It was the cold weather. Remember the guy was using his nose to kind of move the screen? Oh yeah, right. Right. But it's a constant, you know, curiosity about what's going on, who's doing what, and adjusting and paying attention to these things. And, you know, it seems obvious when we talk about it in that context. And yet in our own lives, we often don't really just sit, be curious, and pay attention to what's going on around us. Really try to understand it as best we can and respond accordingly. Sometimes it may change our mind about how we go about doing something. Other times it only solidifies our own belief about where we are, but at least we do it in a way that's informed. And like I said, hats off to that team yesterday. I'm obviously hopeful through the course of this year that I work with a lot more teams at companies, you know, around North America who want to accomplish the same thing, right? They want to basically— and they realize that competition's tough, that if they're all bringing their A-game, it's time for their A+ game, you know, or it's time to figure out, I may have all these individual players, but I'm getting beat by a team where the individuals aren't as good as ours, but somehow they're able to work together and do what they need to do. You see it in sports all the time. It's no different in business. Right.

You know, and, uh, so the fact that you've already got a high-performing team that is soliciting, you know, your services is kind of proof of, proof of the whole thing. Plus a 5% increase in a high-performing team is very different quantifiable.

And you know that when you've got a learning culture like that, I'm certainly not the only one that'll be in there working with them. You know, there'll be a lot of things that are now start to come into play in that regard. And so it's great stuff.

And yeah, and if you're interested in more, go to PeerNovation. That's P-E-E-R, PeerNovation, N-O-V-A-T-I-O-N, dot co. That also takes you to Leo Bottari, L-E-O-B-O-T-T-A-R-Y.com. Yeah, it's like, it is, it's internet magic. So you can find out more about Leo and what is going on at peerinnovation.co. And we will put links to some of the things. I know we mentioned Mr. Weber's book, which is a great book. You recommended it to me and I was late to the party coming to read that book recently, but Yeah, new one too.

And we will put the links for both of it on there. I will butcher the title. So I don't want to even say what it is. I believe influence is a major word in it. But I'm sorry to Craig for that, that I don't have—

Yeah, I'm reading Conversational Capacity. And well, I pretty much read it. And it's definitely worth the price of admission. For sure. It's awesome.

Yeah, it is. It really is. And his work is really great. And I think, you know, it's the kind of thing where every time I go and I do all of the kind of more framework-related stuff and I get these guys really in the right mindset to do what they need to be doing, then I think to myself, wow, if you want to now— is that that next step to take your conversational skills right up to the level there? You know, Craig being able to come in and now being able to work within that construct is, can be really powerful. So it's a great guy.

And well, and for those that don't know, just the thumbnail, your team and your group's ability, their capacity to have conversations, not the easy conversations, because we can all do that. But the hard conversations, it's, yeah, it's, it's very practical. So it's a good book. Yeah, we'll put links to that.

They make what for some people are hard conversations, and they turn them into easier conversations all day long. They really do. You know, it doesn't— because the typical thing is people like, and everything ratchets up like, like that quick, right? Um, and yet in the case of like where you've got that genuine trust, that genuine curiosity, and that willingness to want to learn versus judge, now it's a completely different context for being able to have dialogue. Instead of rabid, you know, non-thinking debate, you know.

Okay, do you have any higher understanding before we sign off here for the game? But last week we both— our sentimental pick was Kansas City. So has this week brought you any greater understanding?

I got to go with the Chiefs. I got to go with the Chiefs.

Yeah, me too.

And I think it's a little bit quarterback-driven for me. So I think Mahomes may be— I think as much as, and I think as well-touted, and you know, as Garoppolo is, and I know he's also a very talented quarterback, I think Mahomes is going to win the day.

Yeah, yeah, I'm with you. I mean, the pundits, if you can believe the pundits, not that I do, but it seems that at least what the media is telling us here in Dallas, Shanahan's probably going to throw at least 14 plays that nobody has ever seen before. Because, you know, there's so many analytics and everybody has dissected every play that's ever been run by him, even when he was a coordinator. And they're like, he's, he's, he's just that guy. He's that guy that's gonna throw at least 14 plays that he's never ever run before, and that's gonna be different versus Mahomes, who is—

wouldn't be wrong for me to say that I don't even care to understand the rationale of anyone who believes that That the San Francisco 49ers have a chance in this game.

There you go. That's an ender. That's a mic drop. I like that. The website's Leo Bottari, L-E-O-B-O-T-T-A-R-Y.com. Thank you for listening. Thank you for subscribing. You just listened to episode 4 for season 2020. Super Bowl. Yes.

To learn more about our show and what we do, to submit questions to us, and to subscribe to What Anyone Can Do Podcast, please visit our website, whatanyonecandopodcast.com. What Anyone Can Do Podcast is hosted by Leo Bettencourt. Atari and me, Randy Cantrell. Music provided by Kevin MacLeod is Vibe Ace, licensed under Creative Commons by Attribution 3.0 license. Thanks for watching or listening. We hope you'll share the podcast.