What Anyone Can Do: On Great Groups (1039)

Welcome to our new show, What Anyone Can Do Podcast with Leo Bottari and me, Randy Cantrell. Our new show picks up where the last show, Year of the Peer, left off, highlighting the simple truth that who you surround yourself with matters, and that if we enlist the support of others, give back to those who give to us, and pay it forward for the next generation, we can do anything. Author and keynote speaker Leo Bottari and I will interview a diverse group of thought leaders who will share stories and insights that will help you succeed in business, and in life. How? By doing the things anyone can do, but most of us never will. Welcome to another episode of What Anyone Can Do, the podcast. My name is Randy Cantrell. He is Leo Bottari. The website is leobottari.com. That's L-E-O-B-O-T-T-A-R-Y dot com. We appreciate you clicking play and subscribing. You can see he's got on— we're in baseball season now that Stanley Cup is over. So we are post-All-Star, post-All-Star festivities and greetings. How are you, Leo?

Very well. Yeah, fun, fun All-Star Game, American League 4-3. And, you know, I just feel like, you know, we're only 9 games out and we got the whole back half of the season to go. And that's right, hey, for a lesser team, this could be a problem. For the Red Sox, I think, you know, we'll kind of see what this starts to look like. And, and this is where As we've talked about so many times, when we think about great teams and the commitment they have to one another and to winning and to being better and getting better every day, that we're going to get to see that in the back half of the season, whether it's the Red Sox or what other team kind of comes together and shows what they're willing to do for one another to improve and get better and do it each and every day. And baseball is definitely one of those sports that because of the length of the season and number of the games they play, how difficult it is to really maintain that attitude each and every day. They're playing one night after the next and grind, they, um, you know, and they're traveling and they're moving city, you know, not that, you know, I mean, they, they do well, you know, these baseball players, but, but I think it's a grind. I mean, there's no question. I don't think there's any other sport that really is the grind, uh, that Major League Baseball is. And, uh, so it'll be, it'll be a lot of fun. And looking forward to, you know, cheering on the Sox as always. And of course, went to my first game, by the way, on August 1st, 1968. And it was a Red Sox-Yankees game and Stan Bonson was pitching for the Yankees and Dave Morehead was pitching for the Red Sox. Both pitchers went the distance, by the way, which never happens. Sox lost 1-0 that night. But pretty sure—

did that wreck your day?

Oh yeah, yeah. And the fact that no one really hit the ball all night either. So when you're that age, it's like watching a pitching duel was, was less— I appreciated it less at that time than I might today. But no, this is good stuff. But, you know, one of the things that, you know, I was hoping we could get into today, especially where you're going to be starting your group up, I know, in early August. And we'll, at the end of the show, we'll talk about how people can you know, get involved with that. But I thought what a really good time to talk about what I think, or at least I've found after doing all these workshops over the past 3 years now, uh, what I think are really kind of these top 10 attributes that really make a group great or not. And what's really interesting is someone yesterday, uh, texted me and said, hey, how many groups have you met with that really have it clicking on all cylinders in all 10 of these areas? And I'm like, Nobody. I haven't seen anybody yet. It doesn't mean there aren't a lot of great groups out there. And there are. And as I mentioned in the article, the better the group, the higher the expectations they have of one another. So when they start looking at all of these areas, their expectation is that, wow, we have a lot of room to grow. We have a lot of room to improve. And they realize the value that is available to them. But they also understand that this is not a spectator sport. That when you're participating as a member of a peer group, that it is your real personal— you accept a lot of personal responsibility for how you show up and what you're there for and what you're willing to give to others. And, you know, when that happens, it becomes really magical. But, you know, it does, you know, concern me sometimes when people say, oh yeah, I was part of a peer group one time and it wasn't very good. You know, um, and which would be kind of like going to a baseball game one time and maybe it's not a great game and you're like, well, I'm never going to do that again. Well, you know, I think we can be a little more open to the experience. And of course, in the case of a peer group, it's possible. I would argue that if your experience wasn't good, you may have had something to do with that also.

So because it's a lot more participatory than your first baseball game.

Yeah. Yeah, a tad more. So, but you know, I'd like to maybe chat about each of these areas just a little bit because, and it starts of course, I mean, first and foremost, and this is why I know, you know, you've worked so hard to get and be really selective about the people that you want to have in your group because having the right people in the room, whether that's physically or metaphorically or whatever, is crucial. And what's interesting about it is that this idea of the right people, I think in the case of these business peer groups, it's having enough diversity so that you're getting all of these great experiences and perspectives and points of view and all that, but yet enough similarity where you understand one another's common humanity. The fact that you all have very similar goals and hopefully very similar thoughts about what makes a peer group work and what your responsibility to the group and to yourself is in being a participant in that. And, you know, I can't tell you how crucial that is. And we see it in companies all the time, right? We know one employee can sour a culture. You know, one bad member in a group can create real damage in a group situation. And it's just so essential that, you know, and again, I know how you've thought about this in terms of the group you're putting together, is that you've got to be really selective about who, who's on your team or who's in your group.

Well, I, yeah, I agree. The commonality for me is where it begins. I continue to reference this, this, this group, and it may be a terrible a terrible representation of the idea, but for me, it's, it just is super powerful. And everybody that I talk to about it, you know, parents of murdered children, there is an organization of parents of murdered children. You don't want to be a member of that organization, but if you qualify, where better to go? And the minute you walk in the door and you're introduced, everybody there is the parent of a murdered child. They have that in common. They may have nothing else in common, absolutely nothing else, but that diversity helps them come together for this one thing that they do have in common. You know, so for me, it's, it's small business owners and everybody can get it. Well, it doesn't matter what the industry is. It doesn't matter where you come from. You know, we've talked in the past about the diversity just between our lives. And growing up, you know, Boston might as well have been Mars for me growing up, you know, being born in a small town in Oklahoma. But the commonality, I think the commonality for me, it starts right there. And then the diversity is, frankly, in my viewpoint, is where the real benefit comes.

Well, and the commonality creates empathy. And the empathy becomes key, whether you are that parent of a murdered child, and only someone who's been through that could possibly understand what you're, what you're going through, or whether you're a CEO or you're in a startup or whatever. No one knows really what it's like to sit in that chair until you are around other people who are sitting in that chair, having to make decisions for their organizations going forward. And I think this is where that becomes key. But, you know, having the right people in the room, I think, is a start. Um, but I even separate out having the right people with the second one, which really is those people really being committed, um, to what the group experience is all about. And this is where people learn, I think, what commitment looks like. They think, all right, I want to be part of a group and I want to do it. And I share these sensibilities and I appreciate the diversity and all that. But now what are we really talking about in terms of— and that's everything from showing up to meetings and really being there to being prepared, to being present, to doing all of the things that are about you bringing your A-game every time you show up and having that level of commitment, you know, becomes, you know, huge, you know, in that regard.

You know, the impediment to that, in your opinion, I think, what, what were some of the big impediments to, to any reservation to make that commitment?

Um, I don't think people didn't, they didn't think of themselves as not committed until it was pointed out to them. So in other words, right, yeah, there's that. They were showing up and they were, you know, kind of doing their thing or whatever. And some of it, um, a little bit of it goes back to what we've talked about on so many occasions with Angela Meyers, with this whole thing of— now here's the irony, right? These CEOs who they know they matter in their organization, they're running the whole thing. They come to a meeting, but they're among other CEOs and they don't always get how much they matter in terms of their commitment and what it means to everyone else in the room. So when someone doesn't show up to a meeting, Every CEO knows around there that when Brian or Jennifer or whoever they happen to be are gone, there's something missing from that conversation for the day that you're never going to be able to recover. Um, so I think the person just thinks they're impacting themselves and nobody— yeah, yeah. I think to a certain degree, and they don't always get how much they mean to everybody else and, and just the whole dynamic. It is a You know, when one person makes that commitment, they can get the 10x, 12x, however many people in the room in return if everyone is doing the same. And the more that people model those behaviors of commitment, the more they set the example and it drives the level of commitment for everyone. You know, that when, if whatever, because life happens, if they're going to miss a meeting or something like that, they're not just telling the person leading the meeting or just not showing up. They're telling everyone ahead of time. Here's my situation, here's what's going on. You know, I can't be there. Here's why. And, you know, take it from there. But having people committed, because when you look at, you know, as we've talked about the 5 factors that are so important, high-performing peer groups, you can't achieve a level of excellence against any of those factors if you don't have people consistently showing up. Right, you can't, can't do that, you know.

The good news is the commitment can be, it can be learned, or maybe better said, the behaviors, totally learned, the behaviors of commitment are learned.

Totally, yeah, what that looks like and realizing the benefit of being committed at a different level than they may have imagined, uh, and what that looks like as well. Um, you know, third was this idea of really great groups not just, they don't just have a safe environment where they are free to share with one another in a, in an environment of confidentiality of what happens in the room stays in the room. They actually act on it. They really use it. You know, in the article I talked about the fact that you can have a swimming pool in your backyard and it'll look great, but you're not going to get the value of it if you never use it.

Right.

And so there are groups that have this environment. They will look you in the eye and say, oh yeah, this environment's safe. All right. When was the last time you shared something that, you know, well, now I don't, you know, so they don't, they don't use it to, to the degree, but it's difficult. I mean, this is not, you know, a simple thing when, because for most people, when they go into that group, on one hand, I think they recognize almost immediately that this is different from any other group of people that I typically sit down with. Because when I'm in a meeting in my company or I'm in a board meeting or I'm at a, you know, I may serve on a not-for-profit board. I mean, any committee, whatever it happens to look like, I'm always there putting my best face forward and everything's great. And how's it going? Fine. Everything's— yeah, excuse me. And so they recognize that the group allows for people to really be themselves, um, but at the same time, it's Knowing it is one thing, doing it is quite another. And we talk about it in terms of, again, how people can model behavior. So when someone does share something that may be deeply troubling them, whether it's personally or professionally, with the group, and other members realize that there was not only no penalty for doing that, but actually that person and several other people in the room benefited as a result of the conversation, then it gets other people more willing to try to do that. Conversely, how you listen becomes a really important part too. So it's not just modeling behaviors in terms of sharing, it's modeling behavior that when someone is sharing something that is obviously, as they open up like that, that you are locked in. You're not checking your phone, you're not walking up and getting coffee, you know, and you are fully engaged. And again, making that environment feel very safe, you know, in, in that moment in time. Uh, so I think when you get a group that really understands the difference between having it and really using it, uh, because once you actually start using that safe environment, that starts to mean that you're likely to bring topics to the conversation that tend to be deeper and more meaningful. And again, driving higher value. Right.

So, well, and when people, to your point, when people, when somebody kind of is the icebreaker for that, it's been my experience that some of those moments can be some of the most profound, well, the most profoundly valuable moments. Those times when somebody just finally pulls the covers off and says, here's what it is. And I think everybody in the room respects the fact that They're glad he— maybe they're glad he went first, but super, super, super valuable lessons for everybody.

And when other people admit, hey, I have gone through, or I am currently going through the exact same thing, and they realize how much that dialogue is helpful, it's huge.

I mean, it's ironic. And it's ironic to me that when people are afraid of the judgment, it seems to me, at least in my experience, that the Most of the time when that sort of a thing happens, the judgment doesn't happen. If anything, everybody can relate to it. Everybody can see themselves in it, whether it's quite precise to their situation or not.

It's like, I think they think more, there's a lot of me too. I think they think more of the person for bringing it up than they do any, any belief that that it's not like, you know, we go into this thing expecting that, okay, I'm going to now remove the veil of perfection, you know, that I've got. Nobody in that room thinks you're perfect anyway, out of the gate to start. They know that we all have stuff going on. So you're not giving anything up there.

Right.

Right. And, uh, but yeah, you know, it's, uh, but it's, it's such an important part because it unlocks a lot of things when you've got the really the ability to not only just have the environment, but really use it. That becomes huge, you know. You know, fourth, talked a little bit about, and this is a bit of kind of a subset of commitment, but also deserves to be called out on its own, and that's really being prepared to play. I was astonished at how many times CEOs will admit that when they show up to their peer group meeting, that it's the least prepared they show up to any meeting on their calendar. That they wouldn't think to show up to a board meeting or to a meeting with their employees or with a client or anything like that as ill-prepared as they just kind of show up and they're just, okay, I'm going to play and I'm going to be, I'm going to wing it. And I'm in the moment, I'm going to do my thing.

But do they know how to prepare?

You know, what's interesting is, well, they know they're not prepared. I can tell you that.

Yeah. They can identify that.

They also notice when someone else is, uh, in most cases, you know, I'll be in these conversations and someone will say, they'll all look around each other. Yeah. I don't really prepare like I should. And then someone will say, hey, you're always prepared. And they point to someone in the room and they say, well, what do you do? And they, they talk a little bit about what they do. And they say, how long does it take you? 15 minutes. I haven't had anyone yet when those conversations happen in different meetings, Someone have it take them any longer than 15 minutes. So now everyone in the room starts looking at each other and says, huh, what would happen if every one of us took 15 minutes and actually showed up really ready to play when, um, we get started today, how much we would advance the ball down the field, you know, more than we already do. Um, and it's, I say to them oftentimes that, that one thing, if you do nothing after this workshop today, of all the things and all the areas you discover that you have an opportunity to improve. If you can do that, if you, you know, do give that 15 minutes in advance of every meeting, you're gonna, you're gonna see a huge change.

Yeah. And these are action takers, aren't people who are accustomed to sitting around on their hands. So if that's a curse for them, then imagine what it's like for the average bear out there.

Yeah. So, um, fifth, we talked about Or I mentioned this idea of being relentlessly patient. It's kind of a, you know, with asking questions. Um, someone may bring up a topic, maybe it's a challenge they're having at their company and CEOs being problem solvers as they are, you know, they might ask a question or two, but they start immediately going toward ideas for, hey, here's, here's what you need to do. Right. Um, there is nothing worse than someone trying to give advice on a, about a situation that they really don't understand very well yet. So the more patient these groups are with really asking questions and really uncovering things, um, they learn a lot of things. First of all, oftentimes the topic that people are bringing up or what they think is the central issue for them, the central challenge for them may in fact be a symptom of something else. And the more people ask questions, the more I realized that maybe this isn't your issue. Maybe it's this. And they start having those conversations and that starts to get people to restate what it is they may be thinking about and actually address the core issue. Um, You know, I, I'm definitely a big believer in getting the right answer to the wrong question is typically not going to be very helpful, you know, for you. And so when you've got groups that are really disciplined about asking great questions and they can really get to the core of what's going on, then they can share experiences with one another that are truly relevant and truly helpful. And, um, You know, time and time again, when, uh, you know, I see these groups at work, um, the people who are really good at that, boy, what a difference maker it really is. I mean, it's, it's extraordinary. Um, you know, and, and, and with that, you know, we, I had mentioned before when, if you don't really leverage that safe environment, you're not really going to bring the real topics of value to the conversation. But at the same time, that is also number 6, right? That you can't have valuable interaction with your group members if you're not, if you don't have anything valuable to interact about, you know, so if you're just not bringing, you know, and this is where the burden does fall on the members of the group themselves to really be bringing those big things to the group. And understanding that it's important to have real conversations. And that doesn't mean sometimes that, you know, I also run across someone who feels like, well, I have this question. I have the thing that bothers me, but God, it seems like I don't want to bother the group with that. You know, and they very sheepishly kind of just say, ah, so I don't bring it up. You got to resist that temptation too. Because oftentimes while it seems like a small thing, it's clearly on your mind, number one. So it's probably not as small as you think it is. And secondly, it's likely to be relevant to half a dozen other people in the room, and they're going to be grateful that you brought it up. Um, so, so sometimes when I say about bringing things forward, it doesn't have to be always the big stuff. Sometimes it is the small things, but you are at least willing to engage, in topics, challenges, opportunities, issues that have true relevance and meaning to you. And I think when you do that, you'll find that they will have that for everyone else as well. And again, they start modeling behaviors on bringing those things to the table. I mean, when people think about being parts of groups, they talk about kind of the point of leaving your company, company for a day or half a day and going to a group meeting is that I get to get out of working kind of in my business and all that. And I start working on it. I start thinking about it more strategically, more broadly, more in terms of what's happening in the economy the next year, 2, 3, and what's that's going to look like for us. Or, um, and this is where it's important to have those kinds of conversations in order to really get value.

And all of these, all of these, all of these tend to feed into the formation of a culture that's conducive for any and all 10 of these things.

Oh yeah, yeah, no doubt. And this is where, and this is why if you participate in a high-performing group, it's likely that you will lead high-performing teams in your company because you've seen it work, you know how it works. You could identify who the team players are, who the great teammates are, as we've talked about. You know, the number 7 on the list in that article, the CEO World piece, was kind of understanding how to get the most out of the group. Sometimes it isn't just, oh, I've got to think of some kind of conversation to, you know, to spark or some topic to bring up. Maybe I can be more imaginative for how I leverage all of the intellectual capital in this room who, uh, are empathizing with one another. I think, you know, so well, um, part of it is, um, to not just go in there with questions that you want answered, but in some cases it may be that you want your answers questioned. Maybe there's a decision that I've come to that I want to talk to the group about and get them to weigh in on, hey, am I missing something here? You know, to be able to pressure test some of our answers, to talk with people about how we came to a decision and what that looked like for us becomes very instructive and very informative to everyone else. Asking what-if questions becomes, I think, very powerful. You know, what if my CFO were to leave tomorrow? What if I were disrupted by an unlikely competitor? What if my biggest competitor were bought by a multinational firm? Is that a good thing, a bad thing? How would we respond or how are we prepared for that? Again, these are the working on your business type questions that are extremely powerful, I think. And then finally, what I love is that when there's a CEO who's got a presentation they've got to do, it could be to their board, it could be to a financial institution or their employees or whatever happens to be, they may take all or an important piece of that presentation and say, Hey, you, my CEO group members, you're my employees or you're my board. And here's the case I need to make for X. Um, and again, and I've seen this play out many, many times, uh, where, you know, all of a sudden someone gives a presentation. They're like, yeah, uh, here's what you need to do. And much to usually to the chagrin of the staff that has helped the CEO put that presentation together, the meeting comes out and they're always got to stay late now and redo everything because chances are meeting is the following day or the following week or something. But, um, every case it gets better. And, uh, so not only does the CEO benefit from the coaching of the other CEOs about how to really make that argument compelling, but everyone there is also taking notes thinking about the next time they have to do the same thing about what they need to avoid or what they need to do. So it's extremely, um, you know, powerful. And it's fun to watch when you see that working. I think I'll get to these last 3 real briefly because I do want to get to talk a little bit about what you've got coming up in early August. But so briefly, number 8 is really being willing to challenge one another from a place of caring. Right. So again, when you've got an environment that's safe and you've got the ability to do so many of these things, it creates an environment where people don't question being challenged by someone else. Like, like if you were to ask me a challenging question openly in front of everyone, I don't think you're doing it because you're trying to show me up or I don't think, I think you're trying to do it because it's the question that needs to be asked. I've already expressed what it is that I want. You're trying to help me get what I've already expressed that I want for myself. And you're going to get to the heart of that. And, and we're all going to work that together. But I know that you're asking that question because you care about my being successful, just as I would care about you and other members being successful there. So that, and that's a big leap, you know, when you can get people to do that and challenge one another in that way. That is a real cultural breakthrough when you can do that. Sometimes when groups get to know one another really well, it creates a level of familiarity that actually runs counter to that. Cause now I don't want to, I don't want to ask my buddy that in front of everyone, you know, when in fact you're there for a reason, you're not there to be each other's friend in that primary way, right? You're there. To help each other grow. And sometimes that involves— and most of the time our growth involves being taken out of our comfort zone a little bit and to have people willing to do it and being able to thank them for it after.

Well, this focus on the other person instead of in your own head.

Yep. Finally, the last two is, when I think about this much in the way as we've talked talked about, about Pasi Sahlberg, who's the former director general of the school system in Finland, one of the highly regarded school systems in the world, who basically says that in the Finnish language, there's no direct translation for the word accountability. He said, it's kind of what you're left with when your sense of personal responsibility gives way. So I don't think about this culture of accountability as one where other people are holding me accountable. So much as I am accepting personal responsibility for the role that I have in that group to bring my A-game, to show up, to listen, to model the behaviors, to do all of those kinds of things with the expectation that every one of us will have that shared sense of personal responsibility and that we hold that, um, and we hold that out. We don't take that for granted and we understand what that means and what that looks like. And we are there like great teams. You know, talk about a big congrats to the, you know, US women's soccer, right? You know, and I think an incredible example of a team that really played for one another and did it brilliantly. And this is what, when you're in a group, you've got to do the same thing. And then finally, I do want to get into the issue of leadership and whether this group is professionally facilitated or member-led or whatever it looks Like leadership matters. Leadership matters because they're going to be watching out for all of the things that we looked at. They're going to be a servant leader. Um, they're there really to serve the group, not for themselves. And, and I think also they are a part of it, not apart from it. So whether they're a professional facilitator or a group member, they don't hold themselves away from the group. They're actually part of that in a way where they model behaviors that become, um, you know, you know, endemic to the culture, uh, there. So, but, um, anyway, those were kind of the top 10, and they, um, uh, were just, um, I think part of what have been really big findings, you know, for me. On the other hand, somewhat not so much anything new or You don't look at any of those things and find them breakthrough, but when consistently you see these particular 10 areas as being so essential to what makes groups, uh, you know, really successful and really high-performing or not. Um, I thought it was definitely worth kind of enumerating them even in greater specificity than is done even in the 5 factors that are—

well, yeah. And to your point, when you started, You know, just because a person may have had one bad experience, you know, first kisses and most firsts aren't all that great. You know, it gets better over time, but at least there's some, you know, there's some format and there's some proven thing because of, especially with a person like you with all of your experience and, and having, you know, having helped facilitate kind of how to do this with so many groups all over the planet, you And I know that you're fixing to go up into Canada and it just transcends culture.

Oh yeah, up to Vancouver next week. Yeah, really looking forward to that. And then I'll be spending a little time with Jennifer Vessels and what she's really building, Executive Growth Alliance also. And because I'll be speaking at that conference in Oslo. At the end of August. And so there's some just good stuff happening in this space, not the least of which is, you know, as we've talked about, you know, the group that you're building. And I know, um, that getting all the right people in the room and having that be selective is, is important because once you establish that foundation, from there you're going to be able to do all of these other things that we've been talking about. And people will understand what their commitment is and what the role is and that this isn't like just joining a club. This is really making a commitment to others, which will result in good outcomes.

I've discovered just in my own efforts over the last months of— I do think that there's an element of of people out there that just don't fully understand this and what the value proposition of this is. I can't tell you how many people, you know, have connected dots that don't exist of networking and of it just being, you know, hey, I'll do this for you, you do that kind of an exchange. And you start having these really interesting conversations with people like, no, that's, It's not even a third cousin, you know, to this. Uh, but yeah, the peer advantage, uh, you can go to thepeeradvantage.com, uh, to find out more. And I'm planning to launch at the beginning of August, you know, the first kind of a 7-member small business owner. Uh, another surprise to me has been, I was, I was frankly expecting businesses to be probably more on the smaller end of the spectrum. Not that I had any number in mind. We've talked about this before. For me, it's an operator, you know? So if you are a small business owner and the word operator offends you, you're probably not the right person to be in this room.

Yeah.

You know, because these are people that are very close to the work. They are close to the employees. They're even closer still to the customers. And that's largely based on my own fanaticism. With customer and customer experience. You know, I spent my life running retail companies and serving as CEO of retailing companies, luxury retailing companies where customer service is everything. So I'm pretty fanatical about that. The great news is, man, we're, we're in a, we're in a culture and today, man, Leo, with technology where there's a place for everybody. I mean, if there's anybody out there, I really don't care who you are. There's some way to leverage the power of the collective, you know, the power of peers.

Absolutely. Yeah. So, um, hey, you got a couple of weeks, reach out to Randy and be a founding member of his new group that he's getting started. So Randy, I know we're gonna make that happen. We'll let people know how it's going in the, um, in the weeks ahead. And, uh, in the, uh, in the meantime, and we'll just, um, you know, enjoy the rest of July and, uh, we'll see everybody next week. Yeah.

Well, the next week we may have, uh, you may have a big announcement next week.

I think we do.

Yeah. Well, there you go. So that'll, that'll be the, that'll be the tease. The website is leobottari.com. That's L-E-O-B-O-T-T-A-R-Y dot com. And we appreciate you subscribing to the podcast. And if you want to know any more about the group that I'm building, You can find out more by going to thepeeradvantage.com. Thanks, Leo. I'm looking forward to next week's announcement.

All right, me too. Thanks.

To learn more about our show and what we do, to submit questions to us, and to subscribe to What Anyone Can Do Podcast, please visit our website, whatanyonecandodo.com. What Anyone Can Do Podcast is hosted by Leo Battari and me, Randy Cantrell. Music provided by Kevin MacLeod is Vibe Ace, licensed under Creative Commons by Attribution 3.0 license. Watching or listening. We hope you'll share the podcast.