What Anyone Can Do: The Launch of Peernovation (1040)

Welcome to our new show, The What Anyone Can Do Podcast with Leo Bottari and me, Randy Cantrell. Our new show picks up where the last show, Year of the Peer, left off, highlighting the simple truth that who you surround yourself with matters, and that if we enlist the support of others, give back to those who give to us, and pay it forward for the next generation, we can do anything. Author and keynote speaker Leo Bottari and I will interview a diverse group of thought leaders who will share stories and insights that will help you succeed in business, and in life.

How?

By doing the things anyone can do, but most of us never will. Welcome to another episode, a special episode because it's a big announcement day, uh, for Leo and I here at What Anyone Can Do Podcast. My name is Randy Cantrell coming to you from Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas. He is Leo Bottari coming to you from San Diego, California. The website is leobottari.com. That's L-E-O-B-O-T-T-A-R-Y dot com. And, uh, let's just rip the bandaid off this thing, Leo.

Yeah, the web address you mentioned is now also home to PeerNovation. And I think it's this idea that, of course, we learn and work better when we do it together. I think when you get a bunch of people in a room, when it comes to whether it's meeting a tough challenge or understanding how to leverage an opportunity, the more perspectives you have, The more that you can bring, you know, I think people's experiences and vantage points and everything to the table to come up with, you know, really great solutions. You know, I know in a lot of the workshops I do, I talk about the time that I spent at Mullen and how the whole culture was all about people who were really, really good at what they did. But that could be media, could be creative, could be account service, could be whatever it happened to be. But when you put all those people in the room and got them to challenge each other, that's what helps them. And, you know, other agencies like them, you know, like the VaynerMedias of the world, like people like that, that's what helps them produce the very best work in the world, you know, because they have teams willing to challenge one another, work hard, and understand that by doing so, um, they can do things together that no individual would ever be able to pull off. And so, I think peer innovation becomes, I think, a fitting, you know, word. I think they are hand in glove in terms of, um, uh, and also it's hard to imagine a more important challenge to get our arms around, um, is basically people working together to have to meet tough challenges or take advantage of great opportunities more quickly possibly than ever before. And, uh, our ability to do that, And it's going to be real, really important.

Um, give us some backstory about that term.

The term, um, so I first used it in a blog post somewhere around 2011, 2012, just because, you know, uh, it had come, come to my mind about people coming together and being able to innovate and that why wouldn't we think about it in terms of peer innovation, that it wasn't, a solo act. So I think, you know, over time it's been kind of interesting that the term, the, it's kind of just hung out there and remained available. So when it came time, I think, to try to put a name around, you know, what it is we're, we're doing here, I think Peer Innovation, it's an LLC out of California, and You know, basically we, and we should be able to, uh, obtain, you know, the other assets necessary for the Peer Innovation name to, um, you know, remain primary here. So I'm, you know, it's, so that's kind of where, where that came from. At least I think, um, when I look at the past 3 years in particular, I mean, definitely the past 10, but most certainly the past 3 in terms of a deep dive into this, you start getting a sense of the things that all entrepreneurs have talked to us about on podcasts and everything is like, what problem are you trying to solve for versus what is it that you're trying to do? You know, what is, you know, just because it happens to be peer groups, it becomes a big so what, unless you're addressing something specific. And I think there are a number of things that we've come across, I think over the past few years, one of which, you know, is certainly, uh, while not new, I think it's, uh, there's a bright light shined on the billions that are spent on learning and development, where somehow the return on investment on that, which is minuscule, you know, in my view is tolerated. Um, and, and it's not because the learning and development isn't great. I'm sure a lot of the content, a lot of the speakers, a lot of the trainers, all the people that come together to determine first of all, which content they believe is important for their employees to know. And secondly, the very best delivery of it. The problem is that there's just no mechanism to be able to make it part of the way either individuals or teams really work. And I think this is where peer groups inside of companies can be extraordinarily beneficial and powerful and really effective, uh, in terms of taking this money that companies are already spending and really being able to you know, get the value from that. So I think that was definitely number one. Um, the second issue, as you know, is we really looked at companies who, they have all these strategic initiatives they're trying to put together. Many of them, by the way, you know, uh, concocted in some offsite meeting with senior executives who come back and then they want to tell the world, you know, impart their wisdom on the fact that, you know, here's what we're going to be doing now and here's what you all need to do to make that possible. And we have this incredible vertical communication that is only going to take you so before. And we understand now, I think, a lot about, A, how important it is to get all of your people involved in the process of innovation, that we need to communicate horizontally as well as vertically inside companies. And if we're actually going to get anything beyond, you know, something that exists on a plan that's either on a bookshelf or in somebody's laptop somewhere, it's going to remain there unless people are really engaged and able to do it. Of course, I think two other things have really come to light. Obviously the past several years now I've spent working with CEO peer groups and groups of executives. I think to a group, every one of them, when you spend time with them, realizes that they're not getting nearly the value that could be out of their group experience. That is no one's fault. That is just really, sometimes it's an awareness and sometimes it's just having the conversation. Because when I do the assessments of these groups, I'm not assessing anything. I'm giving them a framework. They assess themselves in terms of where they honestly believe they are, where they know they could be. And of course, usually the better the group, the higher the expectations they have. And, you know, they just realize that, wow, there is so much more they could be getting, even though these groups work great, but they could work even that much better. And they get it. Um, so I think there's a lot of work to be done there because what we know from all the people that we've had on our podcast, and is that the more that we develop, um, skills and muscles around our own ability to collaborate, the better we're able to lead teams that are really collaborative, um, back in our organization, you know. And I think all of this, when it comes to peer groups and whether they're serving needs inside companies or whether they're serving needs outside the organization to be able to bring inside in the case of CEO or key executive type peer groups. I think it really begs the question when you look at so many people today who want that experience, but are gonna need to have it delivered in a very different way. So for us to be able to continue the work we're doing so that we can chart a course for what the peer groups for business leaders and entrepreneurs of the future are going to look like, whether it's for startups, scale-ups, or larger organizations. There's huge opportunity and potential there, I think, to really make a difference in the world. And I think for us, that is, as we've talked about many times, the real primary driver, you know. And so, so yeah, so it's, it's exciting stuff to be able to sit and talk about this. And of course, finally, and what I think is really important because you're going to be able to bring, I think, some real firsthand, um, knowledge of this through your leadership of a lot of these groups, um, through especially the work through the Circles platform, uh, which I think is an extraordinary, scalable learning platform that Dan Hoffman has developed out of Circles, that I think with that as a part of a larger picture of how the peer groups of the future will work, I think that's obviously a great place to start.

Well, and even kind of as a preface even to that, You know, for me, the work that we're setting out to do has a bigger impact because of all of the people, all of the companies, whether that company is an individual who's trying to operate peer groups or companies like YPO and Vistage that are doing it. You know, our ability to help those folks and to encourage them. You know, it's just, that's the great thing about the age that we are in, even though you and I both kind of came up in our careers back in the days of the zero-sum game, you know, if I win because you lose. And we're just really wanting to, to kind of ballyhoo the value of this and hopefully help anybody and everybody in the space, you know, help every boat kind of rise in the water and get the tide up because of our staunch belief in the power of this, for us to just put ourselves in smarter rooms and then work like crazy to make these rooms as smart as we can make them and not make it all about ourselves.

Yeah, there's no question. I really see us as potential really great partners for the YPOs and the Vistages and the EOS and the Renaissance groups and, you know, all of them. Out there, largely because we're all looking to do the same thing. If you talk to anyone in any of those organizations, they'd be the first ones to tell you, um, could their groups be even better than they are? No question about it. You know, the question is, what does that look like? Um, and then also, I think though, more importantly, isn't just about how to take the current model and try to make it better, but how to look at new models that will be You know, a lot of what I really enjoyed about Dan Hoffman when I met him is he's so purpose-driven in terms of what he's doing. And I'd like to think, you know, that without talking about ourselves in that way, but I think that that's true. I mean, I think we're very much about that. It's why I think there's some sensibilities that align with Dan Hoffman there. And I think Dan is really looking to democratize this whole arena, to not make this something that is overly expensive or anything like that, but the more people we can get into it and to have it work the way people work today is going to be an important transition, you know, to make. I mean, clearly, when you look at so many of the groups currently out there, there's a lot of people that this works for now, and that's amazing. And I think we can continue to improve on that model, and I don't think you can ever replace the value of people getting together for a whole day or a half day or whatever it happens to be and really being face-to-face and digging deep and doing that. That said, it's also not the only way to deliver a valuable experience to entrepreneurs and business leaders and executives at larger companies or other CEOs or whatever that happens to be. So it's a matter of looking at what are the different kinds of experiences and different kinds of value that could be provided through peer groups, both on and offline, synchronous and asynchronous, and using whatever platforms and tools that are necessary combined with getting people together, you know, as necessary. Again, I think that that human contact is irreplaceable. I mean, I certainly notice it in the graduate courses that I teach. We're doing a fairly new course at Rutgers right now that always now includes an opening residency. And we've done it now a few times. And when we have a residency and we can bring people together on campus and then they walk online for the whole rest of the course, they never really see each other again in quite that way. But what they build just in one weekend and how you were able to not only just extend that but make it better through their engagement online. It's pretty cool to watch. And so, I think there's a lot of potential there for all of it.

Well, our ability to— I don't think anybody disputes the fact that together we can certainly solve problems better, more quickly, more efficiently. Not to mention the fact that it's way It's way more fun to do it, to do it with others. So there is that, there is that component as well. You know, I would say, you know, for as far as what I'm intending to do with launching the Peer Advantage is, is self-serving only in the sense of giving you and I kind of this live laboratory, uh, environment, uh, of, of people that are, that are brave enough to, to participate and vulnerable enough to, and helps us learn some things firsthand so that we're just not kind of out here preaching some message that we don't know firsthand. Uh, of course you absolutely have firsthand knowledge and, um, you know, so this first group, I don't know what the future will be. You know, we're just going to kind of take this as it comes. I know for me, the purpose behind it is very congruent with the purpose behind it for you is just the word that keeps coming to my mind, and it's probably a trite word, but it's the best one I can think of, is evangelize. Just to evangelize the message, spread the word, and however people choose to embrace this, choose to embrace it, uh, it's better than not embracing it at all. And to your point, existing platforms, existing business models Some I'm sure are working very well. Others, they may be, they may be struggling. You know, part of my fear is for somebody to go and for it— okay, the first experience wasn't a great experience. And I think you and I've talked about this before. I mean, man, there's a lot of things that we do the first time and it, it doesn't work out. That doesn't mean that it's a bad idea. That doesn't mean that there's no value to be had in it just because you didn't master it. The first time. But I think based upon your work, both with The Power of Peers and then with the latest book, to just leverage that group collective learning and our ability to leverage, you know, and I still am in love with the tagline that you've created, who you surround yourself with matters. And for people to be more intentional and purposeful about that, it still is amazing to me in this day and age of social media, and all the collaboration that goes on within certain industries that you would have never seen just 50 years ago, right? Just 30 years ago, of just how few people take advantage of this in a more formalized, structured way, to the point, you know, the way that you open the show, so that they can really get something powerful out of it, so it can kind of get traction.

Well, rest assured, of course, that who you surround yourself matters was made up by somebody else. I'm not sure.

I know, but I still love it. I still love it. And you use it and well, you should.

It is, it is, uh, you know, certainly worth repeating. I think being close to the work and staying really close to the work is going to be essential. I think with you leading these groups, I think that's going to be really important. Um, for me, it's not so much about, leading the groups. I'll stay connected certainly with the work I do in the academic side of it with students and the similarity between bringing, uh, you know, mid to senior level executives together in a peer group session where they're trying to run a company versus a very similar experience when they're all in graduate school together trying to grasp material and try to help one another understand it more completely and how much they learn from one another, uh, is great. But you know, it's funny too. I, I look at, um, you, I look at a lot of the whether it's Vistage chairs or some of the members who lead YPO groups and all, they are really, really good at what they do. And what's fun is that I wouldn't be as good at that job as any one of them. And yet I kind of play the role of, but what I can do is help make them better. Right? It's not unlike, you know, you look at any college basketball coach, for example. Well, they can't beat any of their players. In basketball, but they can make them better. Right. So I wouldn't be a better player in many respects than you or many of these leaders leading groups. But a lot of my work has really been focused on how can I be a really good coach to those members, to the leaders of the group, but also the members of the group and getting people to realize how much they own, that this is, that being part of a peer group is not a passive experience. We've talked about this. It's not like sitting in the theater and saying, okay, come entertain me. And I'll let you know how that all kind of goes and how much I learn and how many notes I take or whatever. I mean, you are there to learn from one another and to make that possible, you've got to bring your A-game. Everybody's going to bring their A-game. And when that happens, it's fantastic. I mean, no question about it. But when people, I think, who in some cases have participated in peer groups and feel like, ah, that wasn't a great experience for me, it's likely two things. One, you were probably in the wrong group. And secondly, maybe you weren't delivering as much to that experience as you could as well. And I think a lot of the work that I'm doing in these workshops gets people to really take ownership of it. So by the time, for example, we get around to doing the workshop assessment and we ask the members, hey, is there anything that the leader of this group can be doing as the servant leader of this group to help make you all more successful, to extract even more value out of your experience? And well, that leader oftentimes will leave the room and they'll talk amongst themselves for 15 or 20 minutes. Well, usually I'm kind of doing some housekeeping things back in there and I'm listening to the conversation, which obviously I don't report out to anyone or anything. But generally speaking, the way that conversation starts is someone says, well, I think the leader could be doing this, where 3 people then jump in and go, well, no, no, that's, that's not on him or her. That's on us to do that. And they start really taking ownership. Same thing happens when the exercise that I do with these CEO peer groups, I also give them one that they can take into their teams for their companies. And for those who have done it, they see the absolute shift between looking to the leader for their productivity and their joy and their happiness and whatever other word you want to throw out there, right? To transitioning to like, wow, I mean, I own a lot of this. We own a lot of this, you know, and, uh, it's, it actually becomes really liberating, uh, for them in many respects and really, and unifying certainly.

And that's an exciting part of this project too, for me, because probably even close to day one, when we first connected a few years ago, that, that opportunity that exists inside companies for them to leverage their own manpower, you know, or as Claude Silver says at VaynerMedia, you know, to just the scaling of people and not just headcount, but scaling. What do these people bring? What are their experiences? What's, what's their insight that they can bring to the party? And so many companies that aren't leveraging that, you know, and the ability for us to contribute in some small or perhaps grand way to help companies do this inside of their organizations and put the right people in a room and help teach them how to do that. Because I think largely even companies that may be bent to do that aren't real sure. It's like grabbing a porcupine, you know, they just, they don't even know where to begin. So hopefully we can provide some insights to help people leverage that inside their own organizations?

Oh yeah. Um, and you know, um, like I said, it's just exciting. I think there's a little bit of, um, kind of the Wizard of Oz going on here, you know, where she's wearing the ruby red slippers the whole time. I could go home anytime she wanted. I think for a lot of companies, it isn't always about having to look, uh, anywhere but at the resources you have. And you've got gems and you've got opportunities there that you just have to understand how to unlock. And I think in, in many respects, the most rewarding part of what I get to do, whether it's at Rutgers or whether it's with CEO peer groups, is when you can help people have that aha moment that helps them unlock what they already know they can be doing, and that's cool, you know. So, and, um, you know, I think it makes this, you know, a lot of fun. Uh, I think, uh, again, the idea of peer innovation, you know, really speaks to, you know, people working together to realize their creativity. And, you know, it was one of my favorite definitions of, uh, Innovation is creativity realized, right? It's not just about ideas and about being creative. It's really about, you know, operationalizing and implementing these things in a way that really offer value. And, um, I think people who get together and can do those kinds of things and discover possibilities that they never imagined were there. I mean, how often, You go into a situation, I've certainly seen it a million times where someone will go to their peer group. In fact, there's a little outline that I often use to tell these stories and it's using the acronym PEAR, right? It's the preface, kind of set up the story a little bit. What was the expectation of the member coming in? Well, the member is thinking like, boy, I've got this real dilemma and I can either do A or B, right? So their expectation is that they're going to come in talk to the group, and they're going to help them choose between A and B. Their experience, the second E of PEER, becomes, wait a second, now that they start talking to people about it and people start looking at it from an outside perspective and from the different experiences and perspectives they have, maybe this choice is C, D, and E. And they're like, whoa, I never knew those things were out there or those things were available to me. And then of course the R becomes the result. You know, now that peer took their new topic to the group. They expected to choose between A and B, only to find solution C. And then the result was they implemented solution C, and it actually gave them what they were looking for. When we're left to our own devices, we can so easily be really limiting when it comes to those kinds of things. And when you get people who you can engage in dialogue and really unlock possibilities. Um, that, that's extraordinary stuff. And I think it's why, um, people can just be so effective. Um, but again, it doesn't always, it doesn't just happen by throwing a bunch of people in a room and hoping for the best. You know, there is a, there's a way to do it. Um, and, uh, and I think, In many respects, we've stood on the shoulders of a lot of people who've done it for a long, long time to learn more about it, crawl inside it, figure it out, be able to really maximize some of the practices that are already out there, but hopefully as well bring new things to the table. And hopefully again, I think to be able to chart a course for a new model or models you know, for peer groups that can serve the needs of so many more people who I think will come to understand the value of it over time.

Well, the countless research on loneliness, whether it's a cubicle dweller or whether it's an entrepreneur and all of the, you know, and I'm, and I'm glad to see it. I kind of hate that we're in a society and culture that has fostered the need for the focus on it, but all the mental health issues, you know, and we're not doctors, we're not physicians, we're not therapists, but there is a huge therapeutic component to being in a room together with other people that can relate to your struggle and you can relate to their struggle. And every manager on the planet is locked and loaded on employee engagement and You know, I mean, this just has, it has tentacles that just seem to go everywhere in every organization, in every industry, uh, which probably just speaks to the scope of, of the challenge, but the opportunity as well.

You know, what's really a couple of things kind of come to mind when you were talking about this. One is that I've seen countless times, people bring something, a particular challenge they're having to a group, thinking they're the only person in the world going through this right now, only to have like 5 or 6 other people be like, yeah, I'm there, right there with you. And then they can completely relate to it and figure out. The other though, that I find fascinating is one where someone will point out something that's going on in their organization and really present it as a problem that they want to try to work through. Only to have someone else say, wow, I've got the same thing going on in my organization, but I never really recognized it for the problem that it is. And so it calls attention, it kind of shines a light on something that just wasn't apparent to them because it was part of their normal, right? And I think groups can help us kind of recalibrate our sense of normal, because over time, it can be a bit of boiling frog syndrome, right? And we got to really be careful of that. And I think groups can really be helpful to us when it comes to that.

Yeah, you know, and the group that I'm hoping to build is going to be very congruent with what you and I are doing. I'm seeking practitioners, I'm seeking I'm seeking owners of small to medium-sized businesses who are close to the work, closer still to their employees and their customers. Nothing wrong with the ivory tower guys and gals. I applaud them. Uh, it's great. It's wonderful. It's just not what I'm looking for for this group. I want people that, you know, are kind of roll your sleeves up, get your hands dirty kind of business owners.

You could always start an ivory tower group.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Because the point is, right, it's what they all share.

Oh yeah.

It could be, you know, a bunch of founders in the room who now have CEOs running their companies. That's exactly right. Figure out how to negotiate that or all kinds of circumstances that, um, you know, people are sharing whatever that is. And when that's kind of part of having the right people in the room, it's both the idea that there is something fundamental that they share. Um, but then there's also enough differences in everyone there in that room that you kind of get all the perspectives that you need. So that's, and that's really the, you know, the beauty of it. It's wonderful. Um, when you're just people getting to know one another and knowing their backstory and knowing that the sum total of what they bring into that room is far more than the title on their business card. And I think once we, as business leaders who are part of peer groups like that, look at other people that way, we can get our employees to look at their fellow employees in the same way. Not only as fellow professionals in the full depth of what they're able to bring to the table, but also as human beings and kind of our shared humanity and shared challenges that we have in terms of what we're trying to do. And we're just trying to raise our family and educate our kids and do whatever is out there that is just, I think, very, very human, very common for us all. And so it's exciting.

I'm excited. Yep, it is. I would invite people to visit the website leobotary.com. That's L-E-O-B-O-T-T-A-R-Y dot com. If you have any interest in the work that we're doing, you can certainly shoot Leo, and you can use the contact page over the website, or you can shoot him an email at leo@leobattari.com if you want to find out more and see perhaps how peer innovation can maybe serve your organization, your company, or you yourself.

Yeah, I agree. And I may just want to just close a little bit here with some— so if people, you might be thinking, all right, I'm getting a sense of what this is all about. But I think to kind of wrap it up, I would want to say, look, if you're a leader in a company who believes that you're making a big investment in learning and development and not getting all the value that you could be from it, I think it would be great to contact us. I think if you are about to embark on a strategic initiative that is really important for you to be successful at, and you think that our work with you in terms of helping you assemble internal peer groups could be helpful in that endeavor, then we're the ones to talk to, I think. Third, I think if you've got— if you're leading a group out there, no matter whether it's an EO, YPO, Vistage, whatever, and you think that your group could benefit from, A, having conducting a self-assessment where they look at how they can extract even greater value, but also and importantly how they can bring that into their companies. You know, that's another, you know, opportunity that, you know, again, I think is really powerful. And, and of course, all of this I think will— can help us get to a place where we start really mapping out what the peer groups of the future can start to look like and hopefully provide some guidance around, you know, for a lot of people who are looking to lead groups, that they can do it in such a way that can help more people get more value from it. So anyway, we're just— exciting stuff. You're going to obviously hear a lot more about it. In the coming months. And let's just, let's go make it happen.

Agreed. Thanks for clicking play. Thanks for subscribing to the podcast. Again, the website is leobottari.com. L-E-O-B-O-T-T-A-R-Y.com. Thanks everybody. To learn more about our show and what we do, to submit questions to us, and to subscribe to What Anyone Can Do Podcast, please visit our website, whatanyonecandodo.com. What Anyone Can Do Podcast is hosted by Leo Battari and me, Randy Cantrell. Music provided by Kevin MacLeod is Vibe Ace, licensed under Creative Commons by Attribution 3.0 license. Thanks for watching or listening. We hope you'll share the podcast.