The Healing Potential of Psychedelics: Exploring the Transformative Power of Psilocybin with Julie Cyvonne

Welcome to let's Talk about it with Laurie Streeter. You are about to hear an informative but super, super fun conversation I just had with Julie Savone. She is a psychedelic facilitator, breathwork practitioner, certified coach and former lawyer who bridges the science of psilocybin at both the micro and macro level with the art of integration. She's guided hundreds of people beyond quick fixes by combining evidence based frameworks with transformative practices that break cycles of burn and disconnection. Known for blending grounded tools with radical honesty, Julie helps high achieving clients shift from overwhelm and exhausted to clear, connected and confident. Her work empowers people to move from merely surviving into fully thriving. I loved this conversation. If you're interested in psychedelics or are at all curious, Julie is the person that you want to listen to. She has so much to offer, breaks down exactly what psychedelics are, are and aren't dispels myths, talks about who they can help, who it's not for. I am just obsessed with the information that she dropped in this conversation and I know it's going to help a lot of people and she does such transformative work with something that really is starting to become very mainstream but needs a lot of care and attention and she is your person to do that. Here is my interview with this Julie Sivone. Hey there and welcome to let's Talk about it with Lori Streeter. A space to talk honestly and get real about mental health, therapy and all things wellness. I'm Lori, licensed therapist speaker and your host. Here to bring you insights, tools and information you can actually use. Whether you're navigating anxiety, healing your relationship with food or trying to figure out which techniques will work for your life. I'm so glad you're here. Let's dive in and let's talk about it. I'm, I'm selfishly so pumped for this conversation because you and I haven't really chatted and dove into everything you do. I have clients who have dabbled in some psychedelics. I'm super, super curious about everything you do, your story, what you have to offer people and stuff. So welcome to let's Talk About It. We're just going to jump right in because I want to pick your brain about all of the things.

Thank you so much for having me. Yes, I know we're like the OG members of our mastermind, but we haven't really gotten to connect yet. So very excited to have this conversation and yeah, I'm, I'm obviously love to talk about psychedelics and psilocybin in particular. So let's go.

Tell me first, how did you go from attorney to psychedelic facilitator? We're not a psychedelic adventurer. I know we're going to dispel some myths and stuff like that, but, like, facilitator, you help people. But how do you go from attorney? Like, no judgment. It seems like a big jump.

Yeah. I mean, no judgment taken. I think everyone, including my mother, is like, what are you doing? But, you know, ultimately I got into the law sort of by default. And I know that sounds like a crazy thing to say because there's obviously a lot that goes into becoming a lawyer, but I wanted to become a doctor. But even then, I'll say, I don't know that I really wanted to become a doctor. I was. I had. Me and my partner were champion debaters in high school, and she had had cancer four times. And it was just like one of the scariest, saddest things to witness. This person who is your age and you know, I was 16, who could die. She almost did die. She didn't have a stem cell transplant. She would have died. That was like a last ditch effort. And so, you know, she's sitting there, she's bald, she's puffy from steroids. She's someone who you, you know, and love and have had all these amazing adventures with. And she said, we, will you please go cure cancer? And I was like, of course, Brenna, like, what are you going to say to this person who could be dying? Right? So my original idea was to go into undergrad to pursue neuroscience and then to go to med school and then go into get a research track and go into oncology. But in undergrad, I quickly realized, oh, my gosh, I cannot do this blood thing. Like, if I saw my mom have some sort of accident and a bone was sticking out of her and there was blood spurting, I'd be like, I love you. I'm gonna go call the police, but I'm not gonna stay here. Like, I am not the person in an emergency like that to hold it down. So that was a no for me. And so I'm a very I can be a very analytical person. I just sat down and made this little pros and cons list. What am I good at? What do I like? And somehow we got filtered into lawyer. And so that's, you know, I took the lsat, applied to law school, went to law school, practice the law for three years. But as you can see from the story, it was never like, wow. She watched Judge Judy as a child and was like, this is what I want. So I was very much kind of shuffled into something because I also felt an intense amount of pressure for my mom to like, figure it out. She paid for my undergrad. Thank you so much. But because she was paying, it was like, you better be doing something that's going to make money. So underneath all of that, I had had two decades of undiagnosed anxiety and depression and I just couldn't do anymore. I feel like I was that little dog meme where the dog is in the cafe and the cafe is on fire, and the dog sitting there like, I'm fine. That is how I felt. I was losing it. And so I was like, I can't do this anymore. I did think maybe it was the practice area. So I had done a few different practice areas. But while I was kind of in my experimentation phase with maybe it's just the practice area, I got certified to coach. I was like, you know what, this sounds really good. I want to do this. And so I definitely had one foot in, one foot out. The last type of law I did was I work with survivors of human trafficking, which was very rewarding, but still ultimately, like, I don't like this lawyer thing. So I put both feet into coaching. And originally my coaching had a variety of different flavors and niches, but the last one was in executive coaching, which I really liked. I was still talking to kind of the same type of people and having those same high level conversations. But I got into psychedelics because I felt like I had done all these things and I had not fully gotten to the root cause of my anxiety and my depression. And I was like, this can't be it for me. And that's where my love for it started. And from there I started facilitating and got into psychedelic facilitation, which is similar to coaching. But there's also certain things that are distinct and important to keep them distinct, which is really cool. I feel like I never get to have this particular conversation. But you know, psychedelic studies say, like, if you are working with cbs, CBT therapist, your results are like going to be more reflective of that. And it, it really is interesting. Like whatever modality the person is trained in as a therapist and practices, like oftentimes the psychic, like the results from psychedelic therapy will be in mirroring of those.

That's super cool. Okay, so you didn't love the careers you were doing, but are you googling? I have unhealed anxiety. What do I do? How do you, how do you find this stuff, like, now? I feel like things are more mainstream, and. And we have people like you who are dispelling myths and educating people and helping people. But even a couple years ago, tell me, like, how long ago this was and who told you about it.

This was 2021. And I have this theory about life that is not scientific, but I feel like life or God or creator universe is a river, and that we are all in the river, and that the river is a force bigger than us, and it's going to push you toward your highest path in evolution. But you can still be a stubborn salmon or, like, a little sticky starfish. And I was that little starfish just clinging onto this rock of what I thought I knew I was supposed to do. And the river came, and it just popped me off. And so, honestly, it was very. It was divinely orchestrated in a way that I could not have done myself. But in the in between of me, one foot in, one foot out. A friend who was in my coaching certification was a founder of a nonprofit in la. I was living in San Diego at the time, and she said, hey, will you run the nonprofit? And, you know, my coaching business hadn't taken off, but I knew I was done with the law. But obviously, like, I understood, you know, the nonprofit world in a way that maybe other people wouldn't. I was like, yeah, okay, sure. Like, this feels good. Give back. Let's do it. And so our nonprofit worked a lot with this Colombian organizations, and our Colombian contact was an expat. And so he came back into town, into the country, and he's like, hey, like, let's go. Let's go get dinner. Because we've been working so closely together, right? But over zoom. So I met him, and he's like, hey, I'm actually investing in a company. I'd love to get your feedback on it. Cool. So we drive out there, and the company is this microdosing company, And I was like, what is this? He gives me these capsules, and he's like, okay, so go take that. I mean, like, let me know what you think. And I'm like, what do you. What do you mean? So that is a big thing where I feel like, you know, we have people just want the link, right? They're like, oh, give me the link to the capsules. And I'm like, I can give you the link to the capsules, and you might have a good day, but if you're not pairing it with intentionality. Integration, intentional relearning. Like, nothing in your Life is going to change. And so I was very committed from the beginning to researching. I have my background in science, so, you know, I like to read a research paper. I understand what is statistically significant and what isn't. I read how to change your mind. I pursued psychedelic facilitation training, and I really figured it out for myself and used that as a tool. And I was like, oh, wait, I did do this. I'm not anxious. I'm not depressed anymore. This is what's available in this space. Let's go.

Did you take the capsules the guy gave you?

I did not. Then after I figured it out, I was very much like, what do you mean? So I took some time to really dive into the research and everything. And from there I took the capsules. And from there it was like, you need to invest. Yes, More.

Amazing. Okay, so they're capsules. And I really like the high level, what are psychedelics? But then also literally, what are they? Because you have a little mushroom icon on your Instagram for anybody listening. There's a neon mushroom behind her on her wall. So they're mushrooms and. But they're put into capsules. Is that the psilocybin?

Yeah. So I actually have my microdosing capsules right here. So this is just. Okay, so there are lots of different mushrooms, right? There are mushrooms we eat on their pizza. A lot of people have probably heard about functional mushrooms. So lion's mane, reishi, cordyceps, and then there are psilocybes, which is any mushroom that contains psilocybin. And so this is a microdosing capsule. I know not everyone can, like, see me, but it looks like a vitamin capsule and it is just pure, ground up mushroom. It is mushrooms that are psilocybin that contain the psilocybin. So psychedelics are any, any substance that's gonna like, the best way to say it is just change your perception, right? It's changing, I like to say, changing our models and our manuals. So every human being has manuals that we have subscribed to. Probably we've adapted them from our parents or society, the way that we grew up. And it's a constraint that we have on how we think the world works. And because they're so underneath the surface and subconscious, we don't even understand that we're subscribed to them. But they are limiting us in some way. So a psychedelic is a substance that can expand your models, expand your manuals and your perception of how you. How you think life works. So that includes things like ayahuasca, lsd, psilocybin, There's a whole host of them. I call them the family. But I work primarily with psilocybin and occasionally lsd.

Is there a reason you chose psilocybin? I'm just curious.

No, there is.

Thank you.

So I do like to call it a family. Right. Like, we could make a nice little family tree. So you very commonly will hear ayahuasca referred to as the grandmother. And I've sat with ayahuasca. It definitely has that like, stern, like, Grandmother Willow energy of like, she will put you on your butt. And it is a much more, I don't want to say intense because mushrooms can be very powerful as well. But it's like a deeper sort of ancestral, like, wisdom type experience. But mushrooms in the family tree, they referred to colloquially as los nino santos. And they're like the children, like the little fun, you know, gnomes and fairies. And that is definitely more of the energy of psilocybin. So one of the reasons I decided to work with it is because I think it's a great, like, entryway for people who are interested in exploring this work. I also love, I feel like every single plant medicine psychedelic has its own type of teaching. So I say mushrooms are medicine for the heart. They're for that healing for, you know, the traumas, the wounding, everything that's happened in our past. Lsd, I like to say, is more like energy or medicine for the brain. It is like the Steve Jobs making the iPhone type situation. So one was. I liked that it was heart centered. It was a little bit, I don't want to say lighter because it can still very much be, you know, an intense experience, but the energy was just different around it. And honestly a big part of it too was like sourcing. Right? Like, it's either. I have very reliable companies that I work with that are just mushrooms. They're exactly what they say they are. I've been to their facilities and other temperature control because it is difficult to grow mushrooms. And I could get very clean, reliable sourcing for mushroom microdosing. I haven't worked as heavily with LSD in the past because I didn't have a good source for it, but now I do. And so that's why I'm introducing it more because that is actually my favorite psychedelic.

So what are some common myths? So this is really interesting and I'm gonna go a little bit on a tangent of something. I. I mean, not that I've never said it publicly for like a bad reason. I've just never had a reason to. So, you know, I grew up in the era of, like, weed was illegal and everybody was writing papers in high school when it was like, convince us of something, right? Write a persuasion paper. People were like, this is why marijuana should be legal. Like, you know, it was kind of like that era. And then, you know, you would go to parties and there would be ecstasy and LSD and all of these quote unquote hard drugs, right? And so I would see people do things. I had a couple experiences. Not very pleasant. And so there's all these misnomers of, I think, like older people, but even younger, just all generations. But there's a lot of myths even, that I would probably, you know, ascribe to or believe or be confused about. So what are some common things that, like, you try to dispel for people? What do you hear out there?

Okay, thank you for that. Thank you for your honesty. I feel like a big one, just sort of hearing you share. And I'm so sorry that you had a bad experience. And I'm sorry to everyone listening who did and what the research tells us is that when we control for two things called set and setting, meaning your mindset entering the experience as well as your environment, you almost negate the possibility of having a bad experience. So, you know, I'm hearing you talk about parties and things like that. Well, if you're drinking, like, first of all, I would never mix alcohol, a psychedelic. I have, like, in the past, and now that, like, this is my work, I would never do it again. I would never mix alcohol. I probably wouldn't do it at a party because there's just so many different energies, right? And like, what if you didn't feel safe? Like, that's a very real thing as a woman, right? Like, what if you were with a creepy guy? Like, all of these things are going to influence your experience. So I take set and setting into account, both what I facilitate at the micro and the macro level. Especially the macro, that's super important. But even if you're microdosing and you haven't created a ritual or practice done it in a safe environment, it can lead to an intensity of an anxiety or paranoia. So making sure set and setting is covered. I think also a big one is people feeling super scared that they're gonna feel something. Honestly, true. Microdosing is sub perceptual. I like to say that it can give you kind of a cleaner source of energy than having a coffee. I also like to say that it helps you Feel a bit more go with the flow. So if you get cut off in tr, not going to flip someone off, you're like, I guess you really needed to go somewhere. And then I also like to say it can make life a little sparklier, right? So maybe you're. You have some mums in the backyard. It's mum season, right? And they've always been there. But you know, you looked at them and thought, wow, like, that's really beautiful. Like, that's a gorgeous plant. So it's not that I'm tripping and thinking the mom is alive or like it's a caterpillar about to fly away, but it's simply showing you an appreciation for things that have always been there that you haven't necessarily seen. So it is much less than having a glass of wine and getting that buzz or taking a gummy or a THC edible and feeling high or stone. It's less than taking a Benadryl and feeling so super tired and wonky. So when we're really in the realm of true microdosing a sub perceptual amount, you're not going to feel anything in any sort of ascertainable way. And that's important for people to remember. You're certainly not going to lose your mind. And then, unfortunately, I think with the rise of the Internet and videos, people think like, oh my gosh, doing psychedelics is. Everything's like ayahuasca and everyone's puking the whole time and it's this weird, gross, intense experience. And truthfully, I've only ever had one woman get sick at my retreats. And I believe it's because she. I told her, hey, I know you're a big smoker. You smoke a lot of cigarettes. I really think leading up to this, you should try to wean off. And she, of course, is an adult and was going to do what she wanted to do, didn't do that. And man, when I tell you she got sick, I think, you know, mushrooms will show you where you get to change what needs to shift. And I think that was a big thing for her with the smoking. And then finally, I think, you know, social media is great and it's great that we have more access to information, but I personally have never watched that show, like Nine Nine Lives or something with Nicole Kidman where she's like some kind of psychedelic facilitator on an island and people like, oh, shouldn't you watch it? Don't you, don't you want to, like, see what they have to say? And I know it's just so, like over produced and dramaticized. Is that the right word for tv? And it's like, I'm not buying it. Like, whatever that show is, I can guarantee you it's not what I do.

Got it. Okay. So I think a big one that you kind of like wove a thread through there is it's not gonna like make you feel like your skin is turning inside out, that the mums in the backyard are crawling away, that the sky is falling. Like, you're not tripping. This microdosing is. You said sub perceptual. Let's really break it down. Explain for someone listening to right, right now, what is subperceptual? What does that mean?

It means it's not in any way impairing. Right. Like you could operate heavy machinery. I remember one of my very first clients, she was a Wall street trader. And she was also maybe unsurprisingly, super addicted to Adderall. And she would use it as she would abuse the stimulant, right. And the prescription to try to like keep her edge on. And she's like, I want to get on this Adderall. I know long term stimulant use isn't good. I'm open to trying microdosing, but I also am very scared. I don't know what the heck you're talking about. And I was like, thank you for being honest. Let's just explore this. So she could go to work, she could be a trader, she got off Adderall, and instead she microdoses. To have that, like clean source of energy, that focus, it truly is less than any of the things that I said. You know, you microdosing, you might like tech, you can kind of tell that like, you have that cleaner source of energy or that things are just more rolling off your back than they normally would. But it's, it's so light. It's a, it's a very light source sprinkle of something. And it's not any way incapacitating. It doesn't change your perception of how you're seeing things. It is truly, it's truly just like a little sparkle in your life. It is not anything that's going to make you feel like, whoa, you know, the ground below me is unsteady, or I'm not a safe person, or I can't raise my children. Actually, a lot of my clients, over 50% of them are moms, and all of them say that microdosing makes them a better mother because they're more Responsive and less reactive. They're more patient with their kids, they're more engaged and present. They're not scrolling on their phones. They give themselves more grace when like things don't go well in the household, which I'm not a mom, but like, how could they go well all the time? So I think that there's a lot of misconceptions and it's just going to be really like intense and it's not at all.

So you touched on a whole bunch of things. Anything else? In terms of how it helps wellness, confidence, self esteem, mental health, day to day functioning. Anything else? I mean, you said a lot, but oh my gosh.

Okay, so wellness. One of the biggest things that psychedelic research is focused on is addiction. So psychedelics, even though they are incorrectly Schedule 1 substances, they are huge for breaking addictions. You know, we hear about things like heroin addicts, opioid addicts, alcoholics, like all of this. There's so much relief in psychedelics. So in the wellness space, yes, I mean it can help you break an addiction. But even from like a more or a less intense standpoint, a lot of my clients report like, oh, you know what, I just have naturally changed my eating habits or I have more motivation to go work out. I will say this is very common after a larger journey. So my retreats are like a larger dose versus microdosing. A lot of participants say their palate changes. And I know for me, I have this inclination to just eat cleaner afterwards and I think that's a really cool one. Confidence is a huge one. So I really like the functionality of what's happening in our brain with psychedelics. And a big one is we turn off or we decrease some blood flow to our dmn. And that is really where we go to like be self referential. And honestly, most of the time in a not so supportive way. Like I said, no one's going to care about my idea. I should have said this in an argument. I'm not good enough. So when we can quiet down that part of our brain that is yapping and being like, I call it the Regina George, then you have an opportunity to just be yourself, to use your voice, to speak up and to not constantly be second guessing yourself on what you're doing. Mental health, particularly like anxiety, depression, addiction, I've already touched on, but also PTSD and ocd, very common, like rigidity and structures in our brain and just defaulting to the same behavior in the same loop. So I didn't come up with this, but Paul Stamets said, like, psychedelics are putting a fresh layer of snow down on the ground, so you're not just going down the same path on the mountain. You have the opportunity to make a new connection. And for people with really rigid brains, obviously, that's great. And I think for business owners, it's really helped me like, tap into, like, clarity and speed and execution because I'm not overthinking things, but also help me really enhance my intuition where I feel very, like, led to do certain things. I don't overthink it. I just like, like go for it. And it's really been a beautiful expander for me.

What would safe ethical.

Okay.

Use look like for anyone? I'm. I'm assuming, obviously you're gonna tell me if this assumption is right, because I, I swear I don't know a ton about it. I know a little more about, like, the therapeutic uses of ketamine and stuff like that. The psychedelics are, are a whole nother world. So I just, I'm obsessed with this conversation. I would assume there's some kind of system, like taking microdosing for a offer, like cycling it. You said you do retreats. Tell me about those. Like, how would someone use it? You don't want them to just go and buy it, obviously from Joe Schmo down the street. But also even just like, without any kind of mentorship, help, facilitation, things like that. So what does, like, safe use look like then, if someone wants to get into it?

Yeah, I mean, I do really recommend a facilitator. I don't just recommend myself. Like, I know a lot of great people I could refer you to simply because if you do it without any sort of symptom, like I said, you're probably going to have a pleasant day, but it's not going to change your life. And I'm assuming you're interested in coming to this practice for a particular intention. So at the bookends of both macro and micro are2i's intention at the beginning, integration at the end. So having a clear intention, like, what do I want to get out of this practice? So when that comes to microdosing, yes, you're totally right. There is like a schedule, a protocol that you cycle through of on and off days. So the protocol that you follow really depends on your intention, which is why it's so important to have a clear one. So, you know, it would look different if you were telling me, I would like to connect with my work more creatively versus I'm really struggling with Anxiety and depression, two very different protocols that you would follow. And you follow them for, I like to say, a month. Sometimes I'll work with people for one protocol through 60 days. That's more like my like clinically treatment resistant depression, ladies, or like someone's really struggling with fibromyalgia, like chronic pain. I might have you be on it for a longer period of time, but 30 days is pretty standard. So on and off certain days, following that protocol, following the schedule, and then you're taking a rest period. The rest period varies depending on like total gram consumed over the course of a month. But that rest period is really the integration. It's like, okay, so you saw what was possible. I like to say that mushrooms or psychedelics, they're like a helicopter. You took a helicopter to the top of the mountain, you saw what was possible. You're like, wow, this is what's up here. That's so cool. And the helicopter's like, yeah, and you can get back up there, but I'm going to put you down and then you top. You got to climb. Right. Like for people who, I mean, this is totally. Myself included. I did not know what it was like not to feel anxiety and depression. So I had no real belief in the possibility that I could feel better. And then once I got that experience, I was super motivated to work on it and to be like, okay, so how can I be there sustainably? Because my whole thing is like, I don't want microdosing to become another crutch for you. I don't want you to feel like you have to microdose for the rest of your life. That's not the goal. It's to get you to a really good place, integrate those changes fully so that the magic of mushrooms becomes your everyday normal. And then microdose once or twice a year for maintenance or go on a journey once or twice a year for maintenance. Not to just like be re. Supplementing like someone's Adderall. Right. So the woman I mentioned, the, the trader, it's not that she microdoses every day. She'll take herself on protocols occasionally, but you know, she was pounding Adderall at a crazy milligram amount every day. So, like, think about the difference in her longevity, her health versus those two things.

You do retreats, that's a little more of an intense, short term, intense experience. Like, what is that?

Yeah. So a retreat, I think is great for someone who is looking for a. Is open to having a larger experience. Right. Because they are very different. Like microdosing sub perceptual retreat, macro dosing, super perceptual, all the perceptions. So you have to be open to that. I know. So I have a doctor's come on a couple of my retreats and she has just been purely curious of like, I'm interested in experiencing psychedelics. I would like to know what this feels like. Like, I've had people who know that they have some trauma that they're ready to really face and deal with in a more direct and confrontational way. People who are like, I want the big breakthrough and the clarity of whatever is next. So a little bit different intention and also, you know, your openness to those two things being different. And my retreats follow a formula that is, well, a well oiled machine at this point because I've hosted so many of them. But the first night is always about controlling some of that set and setting and getting to know the other women. So I keep them small, five to six women. You know, you hear about retreats like Rhythmia and Costa Rica, that's 60 to 70 people in a room. Like, you're just like a face in a sea. That is not what I want for these people at all. I want them to feel like I see them, they have time with me, I understand them, I'm paying attention to them and that they can connect with the other women. So we all feel safe in the experience. And then I'm also a breathwork facilitator, so I will facilitate breathwork that night. And a mix of like holotropic and transformational. So it's diaphragmatic breathing and it was created to simulate the psychedelic experience without psychedelics in response to criminalization. So people in that experience like, oh my gosh, I got all of that out of breathing. Like that was wild. You know, like they have little lobster claws, are all tingly. It's super cool. So I'm like, okay. Like this is just a taste test, you know, like today you are also in control of your experience. Tomorrow, once you eat the mushrooms, the mushrooms are in control of the experience for four to six hours. So we start the day off with the next day with flight instructions. And these are again, very intentional. All of what I say that weekend is super intentional. It's infused with NLP and it's meant to make you feel at ease. So I let you know what you could experience, what to do if you experience X. We talk about like anchors or mantras. We share our intentions. I give them breathing exercises if they feel like at any point it's overwhelming. And then I do facilitate in a therapeutic style, meaning it is modeled after studies and how they facilitate. So you're laying down, you have an eye mask. It is an inward experience. It's not like we're not at a rager. Right? You're laying down and you're very much within your own journey. And it is like a movie in a certain way. So, you know, part of it is like scientific. And I don't want to say clinical because I still, like, I have. I tell people, hey, you know, this isn't a clinical trial. So if you feel like you need a hug, you could ask me for a hug and I will hug you like I you like, I can touch you if you want me to. I'm not going to touch you without asking. But it's also energetic. Like, I bless the mushrooms. I recognize that I'm a white woman facilitating plant medicine. Like, this doesn't come from my culture. I'm very cognizant of that. So it's a mix of like, energy and spirituality and science. So in the journey, it's very music based. Mushrooms are very music based. And so there's a playlist that I have curated for this experience. And it's interesting. I can't explain this scientifically. It's definitely an energetic thing. But everyone kind of lands their plane at around the same time, meaning they kind of like. And the dosage is different. Right at the beginning of the day, we'll talk about, like, person to person. Okay. Have you experienced anything like this before? Okay, so here are my recommendations. You know, two grams. It's going to be this like a Hero's dose is 4.5. Like, where do we want to go? So it's not just, I'm not throwing mushrooms out at people and like, catch them and eat what you want. It is very like, regimented in that way. So everyone kind of lands their plane and then it is a little like, it's like you landed, right? It's like you got off the spaceship a little bit. So for that evening, it's very much like, enjoy. I make sure that the place we're at every time is beautiful. Enjoy the outside, get in the pool, we'll have a nice dinner, and then the next day we'll jump into. And this is one of the most important part, uninterrupted sharing. So, you know, I mean, you know, verbal processing is huge. Letting someone just share their experience, share their movie is a really important thing to do. So without any interruption. And then I also say this is something that I couldn't energetic or scientifically explain. But there's always, like, something that someone needs from someone else in the group. And that's really why I love to do this work in community. Because I heard someone on a podcast a couple years ago, and I was so obsessed with what he said. It's like, the Western culture is extremely interested with pathologizing the individual. And we get so into, I'm anxious, I'm depressed, I have ocd. But oftentimes this, like, community healing is rewriting narratives and healing hurts that it would not be possible to do with just, like, focusing on someone's individual issues, traumas. And so the starkest example of this is this is the only time I've actually ever cried. I really, like, do my best to maintain equanimity, and it's my job as a facilitator to hold the frame right. But this woman shared about her life and her mother and her mother as an addict. And, oh, my gosh, I feel like I'm going to cry right now thinking about it. But it was. What she shared was so, like, horrible. But the room had three other mothers in it, and all the mothers, after she shared, like, got up and hugged her and, like, affirmed what her mom couldn't affirm for her. Like, you're not gonna get that one on one, you know, like, and you're not gonna get that just for me, because I'm not a mom. Like, I love you and I wouldn't hope. I would never do that to a child. But, like, she needed the mothers in the room to be the mother to her. So that is a really powerful thing that happens. And now I'll move on to the fun part, but I think it's really.

I'm tearing up. You're tearing up. Oh, my God. It like when you get to help someone walk alongside someone's just, aha. Moment, transformation, breakthrough, whatever. Like, there's so much emotion there. So I can only imagine how powerful it is for you to facilitate and be part of all that. Oh, my gosh.

Wow. It. I mean, it is so, like, I don't. I say this every time. And I. Because people have come on multiple treats, so I hope they don't think it's like something that I say is a part of a performance or something. But I don't take it lightly that people feel safe enough and choose to do this work with me because it is really vulnerable work. It is scary, I think. You know, I had a really traumatic experience at 6 when my dad died. And after talking with people, like, I had a friend who's 40 whose dad just died, and that was the first parent she lost. And she's like, wow, this is like an experience unlike any other. And I'm like, yeah, it is. And imagine losing your parent at 6, right? Like, no one. If you've never lost a parent, you're just not gonna understand what that felt like. But I also think that that really intense experience primed me to be able to hold a lot of other experiences. So in some ways, it was kind of a gift because I think it makes me a better facilitator. And I'm not. I'm also not scared of your depth. I'm not scared of your trauma. I haven't had. A lot of women have come to the space with sexual trauma that I have not experienced. But I. I can sit with you in it. And I think that I. That wouldn't have been possible if I haven't sat in my own grief and, like, loss.

Yeah. And oh, my gosh, losing a parent. I lost my mom many, many years ago. And that is a club no one ever wants to be part of, but there are some amazing people in it. And talk about just big, energetic hug. When you are part of this club that you don't want to. You don't want to be part of. But that's a whole. Another whole, another conversation. I have a couple more questions for you. But if someone is listening to you and they're at the point where they're like, I'm going to Google it, see if she has a retreat coming up. Like, give me a little information about what you have coming up, working with you, things like that. And then I have a. A couple more questions I want to, like, put you on the hot seat about.

Yeah, no, I'm totally down for it. Well, at my. On my website, Julia savone.com J u l I e c Y-V-O n n e.com or that name at Instagram, there's a tagged post with all of my upcoming retreat days.

Everything. Yep. Yeah.

And I do have all of them posted through 2026. So what you see there is what's coming up. They're all over. I do try to do them all over just to make them, like, accessible to people. There are a couple international ones as well. But I just. I also want people listening who are curious to know. Like. Like, it's really important that we have a conversation first. I'm going to ask you some questions. Not because I'm Nosy, but it's important to make sure that this is the right experience for you. But I hope that also gives you a sense of safety. And I do feel very responsible in being the curator of the energy. So know that a. Whoever else is there is going to be, like, the right fit for the group. And if it's not the right fit for you, it has nothing to do with you, truly. It's just like, I want to make sure I would never have someone sign up for this who I didn't think was going to benefit from the experience, basically. So there is, like, no way to directly book. You have to talk to me. So I hope you're not afraid of me, but just know that that is really intended to protect you and all the other participants if.

Because, you know, we know like, someone when we go to the dentist and the dentist is like, oh, have you been flossing? And you're like, yeah, totally. And you're like, no, you haven't been flossing.

Right.

So we don't always tell the truth to our providers, doctors, dentists, even therapists and stuff like that. So someone who wants to do this, they either want to work with you individually, go to a retreat. I'm going to figure out how to start microdosing. Whatever their journey is, whether it's right or wrong, do they need doctor permission? Is there anyone you can't work with if they're taking an antidepressant? Like, people don't tell the truth all the time. Like, but you. You have to know the truth. You have to know. Yeah.

Lori, I'm so happy you brought that up. I had my first, like, bad experience where even before I very quickly started to realize she was an unreliable narrator, and that's just, like, the best way that I can explain it. You know, we see that a lot too in, like, the law where your client starts telling you one thing and then you realize in discovery, like, this is not at all true. So I'm very grateful that I've been in this work for four years and this was my first unreliable narrator. But please do tell me the truth. Especially about, so mental health conditions. Schizophrenia, psychotic disorders, bipolar specific, specifically, like, manic. I love you. I. I hope that you find the relief that you want and need, but this experience is not for you.

Thank you for being honest about that. I think that's super, super important.

Yeah. It honestly will do more harm than good. And we can get into why, but, like, suffice it to say, please, just please don't. And then Also, so a lot of people come to me who want to get off of medications through microdosing, specifically SSRI, SNRIs, and, like, obviously, we talked about the stimulants for people who want to have a larger experience and they're on something. So there is a risk of something called serotonin syndrome, and that's more likely to come up if you have, like, longer term SSRI use. But I do really recommend, if that's a journey that you want to be on a path you want to be on of, like, working together to safely and sustainably. Tight trade off first using microdosing as a tool and then go on a retreat. I'm not saying it's not possible. And it really. It also, like, this is why we have a conversation. Like, how long have you been on it? Are you on a low dose of Prozac fluxetine? Like, are you on a higher dose? Right. Like, this is an important conversation to have, but please just be aware of that as well. So medications, diagnoses. And then, honestly, I also will say, like, I like to call myself a very loving Care Bear, but I am also a very direct one. And I think you have to be open to that style of coaching, because I'm kind of the person who will, like, put the mirror in front of your face and be like, hey, like, this isn't working. You came here to break through. So I am super grounded and. And loving. I think everyone who's ever come on my retreat would say that, but you, if you're not open and responsive to feedback. I also would say I'm probably not the facilitator for you. You got it?

I mean, they're there for a reason. Like, I.

They.

They're signing up, they're paying money, they're experiencing something. They're giving their time. Like, you gotta be kind of willing to. All right, I'm. I'm not just interested. I'm committed. Like, I'm, you know, here for a reason kind of thing. Okay. Any physician. Oh, sorry.

Go ahead. Well, I'm just gonna say where this. This came up for the first time, and this is why I say it with my unreliable narrator, who I just experienced. But in some of the. As we were peeling back the onion and seeing more things, it became very clear that she was more committed to, like, honestly, like, her misery than, like, moving. Moving forward. And there were some tough truths that she didn't really want to hear, that we were all kind of thinking, like, babe, like, this is not what you think it is. And I don't want to reveal any information about anyone. But yeah, you know, like, I say everything with love because ultimately my intention is that you want to. You want to have a happier life, you want to enjoy life more, you want to be able to move forward. And I want that for you. And so I'm only going to be a stand for your greatness. I'm never going to be anyone stand for their bs.

Oh, I love that. Oo, I got the chills.

That's. That is.

Oh, that's a sound bite if I ever heard one. Any physical conditions you can't work with or that are not a good fit?

Yeah. You know, one woman who's coming on my next retreat is. Has some like, physical limitations with like, her lower body. And so we're thinking about, like, how to do this in like, the best, like, safest way for her. It's the first time I'm encountering this. But she's also a very, like, she's done a lot of things. Like, she's hasn't used like that limitation has not held her back at all. So I know that we're going to find a solution. I would say, like, if you know, you have like a heart murmur is okay, but if you know you have like some larger like, heart issue because it can like, you. Yours can have like a racing heart during the experience. I just would never want you to think that, like, oh, I'm having a heart attack or like, that's gonna feed into set and setting more than like actual risk. Does that make sense of, like, you start to go to our worst case scenario. So heart like murmur is okay, but a more serious heart condition I would, I would caution against. And then honestly one time I, because I believe in being facilitated for, like, it's not just my business, it's my belief system and my value. So I have a facilitator and I scheduled a sit. I don't know why, like, three days after I got Lasik. And so I was wearing these, like, goggles during the experience. And he was like, so you're gonna keep those on the whole time? And I was like, yes, I need to. So we can make anything work. I think that's also why it's so important to me to keep it small because, you know, I can give everyone my full attention.

Awesome. Okay, so someone's listening. Little nervous, still not sure. And it is not Julie's job to convince people, like, that is not what you're in the business of. But if someone is a little nervous. But they're super curious. What can they do? Yes, they can reach out to you, but, like, couple things you would suggest.

Oh, okay. Kind of coming back to this, like, the rise of social media is cool, but it can also be unhelpful. I see a lot of people who think, like, oh, I want to do ayahuasca, because they keep seeing it, like, on Instagram. I truly believe plant medicine calls to you. So really, like, asking yourself some honest questions, like, am I feeling a true call to this? Or do I think it's interesting because I saw it on TikTok, right? This isn't like, an Instagram ad. Like, I'm trying to get you to buy something impulsively, really taking some time, some quiet time, maybe journaling and asking yourself that question, is this an intrinsic desire and driver, or is this shiny object syndrome for me and just being honest. Right. Like, it is truly not my job to convince anyone. I don't want to ever convince anyone of that. I believe that if it's meant for you, it'll make itself known and apparent. And maybe you're having some aha moment in this conversation, or maybe you're hearing, like, nope, actually, I just thought it was interesting, and I saw it on the Internet. And then also, I'm gonna say it again, but, like, very clearly. Okay. You say that you want it, but what is your intention? And it's beautiful. A beautiful intention is I'm curious about what this experience could open up for me, what doors I could. I could open up. Or maybe I'm interested in experiencing a connection to something bigger than myself or, like, what lies beyond the perception of my everyday life. That's a fair intention. But, you know, the intention's like, oh, this is cool, and I want to do something cool. I'm probably not your facilitator.

Got it. Fair. If someone does want to microdose but never attend any kind of retreat, is that cool?

Oh, yeah. I would say most of my clients. I mean, the vast majority of my business is supporting people in their microdosing practice, and most of those people have not come on a retreat. I also keep them small, so I think only, like, 50 people have come to retreats, and I've worked with over 300, so, you know, 250 of those or just microdosing.

Okay. I feel like I could pull hundreds of questions out of thin air and just keep picking your brain, but I'm not going to. Is there anything else you think is important to leave the listeners with? I always like to ask, too, if Someone got one thing out of everything you said, what would you want them to walk away with?

Nervousness is not a sign that this isn't for you. I will say I'm a facilitator. I've sat in many a journey, and every time that I go to sit, like, microdosing, I have no, like, apprehension of, because it's not changing my perception at all, but, like, in a larger dose, I have fear. And I believe that fear is a sign that our ego is still doing its job. And it's telling you, like, hey, this is going to be uncomfortable. Like, we're going to have to break through. I would actually posit that if someone had no fear and was running into the situation, that I wouldn't want to work with them because there's, like, a little bit of something else going on. And, like, the ego is overworking, like, in too much. Like, they have some sort of, like, the guardrails are too far gone. So fear isn't. Fear isn't bad. Fear is just a sign that, you know, you are. You're staying humble. You have some reverence for the experience. I know I always do. And that, to me, is a sign that I can keep going in this work. Because if I was ever like, nope, give me time, 12 cups of ayahuasca, I would think that I had lost it.

Okay, well, I love this. I think it's super important. I appreciate your wisdom, knowledge, everything. I mean, I just. These conversations are super, super significant because we have everything at our fingertips, but, like, we also have everything at our fingertips, you know, kind of like what you were saying with social media. So to have someone like you who's doing this professionally come on exactly what it is, right? And dispel those myths and talk about the process and even who it's not for, because I think a lot of these things are like, oh, yeah, we can help anybody. And I'm like, not. There's. There's not one thing I could think of except for maybe, like, water that is, like, literally good for everybody on the planet, you know? So I appreciate you even being honest about that stuff. We already will definitely link all of your stuff in the show, notes and everything if people want to get in touch with you, talk to you, come on a retreat, all that stuff. Any other words of advice? Oh, my gosh.

I'm so happy that you said that piece about, like, there isn't anything for everyone, because I do think we get really inundated, like, everyone needs 75 days hard or whatever. And that's not true. It's especially not true of microdosing. And I think for someone who's like, I'm curious, but I don't know if I'm like ready to have a conversation with her, you can just DM me the word journey and I won't Even know. My ManyChat will send you my quiz that you could take that will determine whether or not microdosing is a good fit for you. But if I already said something like bipolar, schizophrenia, psychosis, and you know that's like, the quiz is going to tell you the same thing. So just like, seriously, this isn't for you. And I just want you to know that with so much love. It is nothing about you, but it just won't be helpful.

Cool. Well, thank you so much for your time. I know this was super, super helpful because a lot of people ask me about it. My clients talk to me about it all the time. It's not something I can do with them. So I love having people to point them toward and everything. And I just appreciate everything you do. Thank you so much. This was so fun, so helpful. Just so everything, it just, I'm obsessed with it. Awesome.

Thank you so much, Lori. This is a great conversation. I love speaking with you.

Thanks for hanging out with me today on let's Talk about it with Laurie Streeter. If this episode resonated with you, it would mean so much if you'd leave a five star review, share it with a friend, or come say hi on Instagram. Lori Streeter, your support will help this podcast grow and I so appreciate you being here today. I want to help people just like you feel like they're not alone and gain the tools they need to grow. Until next time, take care.