Turning A Challenging Childhood & Constant Change Into Confident Leadership with Michelle Ghassemi

Hey there and welcome to let's Talk about it with Laurie Streeter. A space to talk honestly and get real about mental health, therapy and all things wellness. I'm Lori, licensed therapist, speaker and your host. Here to bring you insights, tools and information you can actually use. Whether you're navigating anxiety, healing your relationship with food or trying to figure out which techniques will work for your life. I'm so glad you're here. Let's dive in and let's talk about it. My guest today is Michelle gossame. She has 10 plus years in team and financial leadership. We are talking CEO, COO, CFO roles including building a 1 million dollar plus low toxic multi location salon brand from zero as a top 1% in the industry and niche for growth, innovation and culture. Now she helps service and product based entrepreneurs in the six figure range who want to grow to multi six and seven figures scale with strategy, financ, financial clarity, operational systems and confident leadership with a deep understanding of the mindset, energy and leadership shifts that are required at each stage. And in this interview you are going to hear how she got there. Michelle grew up in generational poverty. She moved around a ton. You're going to hear what it was like as a child growing up with so much that you would think would work against her and she had this innate growth mindset and how she developed into the person she is today. And as I always say, I know you are going to hear parts of yourself in her story and I am so, so grateful that she was willing to share everything with us. Even if you are not a business owner, not an entrepreneur. The wisdom and information and tips and suggestions and all of the knowledge that she dropped in this conversation parallels life and I just know you're going to get so much out of this. So without further ado, here is my amazing conversation with the beautiful, wonderful, successful Michelle Gossame. Michelle, welcome to let's TALK about it. I'm excited to have you here today. I know we're going to talk all about why you do what you do. We were chatting a little bit before we hit record because I think there is so much to your story. So if you could do a high level introduction. I know you do a lot of work with businesses and entrepreneurs, operations, all of the things. So a very big overview and then you guys, I am going to pick Michelle's brain a lot because I know she has a lot to offer with her story. So she's very willing to dive into a lot of things and I know a lot of people are really going to hear themselves in your story and I'm really excited for you to share it. Absolutely.

I'm excited, glad to be here, glad to pour into your audience. So kind of the top note of who I am, kind of what I do right now is I'm an operations and growth business mentor for established entrepreneurs, not necessarily just women. So taking my expertise from my first business, which I exited about two years ago, where everything on the back end of a business kind of what anchors and solidifies your systems, your processes, a little bit of onboarding, team development, all the operations, essentially paying that forward, that expertise and the things that actually come naturally to me, to other entrepreneurs who maybe that doesn't come so easily to them. I am helping them in some of their areas that they need help using my zone of genius in operations.

How do you think your experiences in life? Because, you know, we chatted a couple weeks ago and we were like, we have to have this conversation on a recording because I just think so, so many people could get so much out of it. And you guys are going to hear a lot of that conversation as we dive deeper. How did you make the transition to what you do now? Having, from what I know, grown up the way you do and just kind of like, where did this all come from? And I know that's a very broad question, but is there any kind of pinpoints that you're like, I want to work for myself. I never want to be unstable as an adult or just kind of any like periods where you can pick from that you're like, okay, here's where I'm headed in life.

Yeah. So for me, I am a very much a growth minded person and I know a lot of people say that, but for me, growth equals change and I actually crave that. And that stems from my childhood where we moved around pretty much every year, so new school, new friends, new everything. Till I was about 11 or 12 where we really settled into one town, grow in, divorced parents in there and we have, I have siblings that are very close in age to me. We all handled that change differently. Obviously for me, I found it to be exciting. I'm a naturally curious person. So I was, I viewed it as like, oh, this is great. Like, I get to meet new people, I get to do this new environment. And it was an exciting thing for me that I actually enjoyed. And then now that I look back, know hindsight is 2020 where I can see some of the major shifts that I've taken in my life personally and professionally. I am more Than fine making huge changes in my life. And I actually thrive on those things and make them successful because that is what I taught myself from a young age. And that is the curiosity that I have, the growth mindset that I have, and then just the natural energy that I have inside of me as a manifesting generator. So all of these things kind of coupled with that thirst for knowledge, that loving new experiences and putting myself in new environments, to a lot of people, that's very scary. And it takes them a long time to get there, if at all. For me, I'm actually looking for the next thing. Not that I'm trying to self sabotage or create a weird force domino effect. It's more of like, I know what's working and then I also know when it doesn't align with me anymore. It's not lighting me up, it's not giving me energy. I get bored. I'm not getting that growth that I'm looking for or that innovation or that passion is gone. And any of that, those are signals to me that like, I need to make a change. Not that I'm doing it prematurely because I really do like sitting in something for a little while and really getting the juice out of it. But then I'm also not afraid to pivot. I'm not afraid, afraid to pivot. I'm not afraid to like shut up the shit down like black and white and then move on, take what I need from it, discard the rest and move on. For me, that is naturally easy, easy, not simple. And it doesn't mean that there's a lot of things that you need to prepare and do all the things. I mean, I'm not in my 20s anymore where I can just fly around off the seat of my pants. Like I have responsibilities and all the things, right? So there's a measure of planning and setting yourself up for success in order to do those things. But I am not afraid to take that jump before all the steps are in front of me. I've never been that person. I enjoy discovering the steps as I go because that feeds my curiosity, that feeds my growth mindset. And those are all things that I just kind of learned at an early age and that have served me well professionally and personally.

I can imagine how much that would help entrepreneurs. I mean, we make changes, we have to pivot. Something's happening in the world or the economy or with our business or with our team and at like, oh my gosh, and why do we hire someone? Wait, we bring someone on to help us work through those Changes. But this is amazing because this is actually, like, honestly not the answer I expected. Because when we think about a kid from 0 to 12 moving around year after year and the instability. And you mentioned divorce. I know when we talked, you mentioned a little bit about your mom's mental health struggles. You would think that that would cause so much struggle, difficulty making friends, like, literally the opposite of excitement for. For a kid. Right. And I'm not saying it's wrong at all. I'm like, your answer is surprising and amazing because that's generally not what people think when they think of a childhood like that. Did it come from anywhere? Or that is literally your DNA. It was exciting. And your siblings, everybody else kind of maybe struggled or didn't approach it the way you do, and you just have this innate sense of, like, cool, something new, new city, new house, new friends. This is an opportunity. Most people, yeah, when you say growth, mindset, that's the epitome of it. So that's super freaking cool.

Yeah. That's definitely not the experience for many, including my close brother and sister. They handle things much, much differently. And they, you know, still have those things. And I had those things, too. You know, I suffered from anxiety and, you know, trying to fit in and different things like that, but it never stopped my growth, and it never stopped me from making new friends. I didn't isolate, you know, any of those things. I just didn't do. And I don't know where it came from. I would imagine that it is something that is just innately inside of me, just like the energy that lives inside of me and my thought processes and all those things, just how I interpret the world around me, because I find it so interesting. And when I did a super deep dive last year from that interim time of closing my business and then to what I do now, I did a super deep dive into kind of the, you know, the brain and the trauma and all the things that are stored within us. And I found it to be very fascinating to me that even people who are in the same home, who are not far apart, like a year apart, how different things are perceived, how things are managed, how they function in their lives, and I can only imagine, you know, people who have change in different areas, not even in the same household where we're experiencing the same thing. Right. So I did find that very enlightening. And then it also helped me to appreciate my innate strengths and skill sets, because those things are not scary to me. Those things, you know, I am very emotionally regulated when it comes to that I'm a responder, not a reactor, you know, and all those different things have helped me make, yes, quick decisions, but not premature and also not blowing everything up, you know, still in a very kind of methodical, strategic way. And I understand that that does not come easily to others. But that is also a skill that I can easily give to any of my clients that I work with, because I know that's not a natural thing for a lot of people, just like, seeing the operations and stuff. So these are just nuances of different things that make me uniquely qualified to help that individual who may be struggling.

With some of those things, entrepreneur or not. Is there anything just because of, based on what you said, is there any tips, tangible advice, suggestions? When you think about the people you work with, someone listening to this and they're like, wow, that would be so nice to move a little freer in life. Or even if I struggle with anxiety, to look at it from like an upper. Not opportunistic in a bad way, but like you're saying, right, here's a chance to change, growing and whatnot. Like, is there, Is there anything you would tell someone doubting their ability right now to be able to, like, think more like that?

Well, for one, it's an awareness. So you do need to understand how as a human being, we generally think and act like that survival mode, like really, really understanding that regardless of all the personal development that you're doing, the plethora of books that you read, your brain and your body is going to shift into some natural DNA stuff that you may not have control over. But the point is, is to have an awareness of that and acknowledge it and then move forward with some great habits that you may have. Whether that's breathing, whether that's a morning routine, that's some movement throughout the day, making sure your energy is high with your food and your nutrition and your supplements. And those need to change each decade. So making sure you have those habits. But you gotta also not beat yourself up when you're like, oh, you get this stuff in your brain where, like, you suck. Or like, why can't you figure this out? Or the freeze and flight, acknowledge it and just be like, I see that, I hear that. I know that's my natural response. I know that's what every human being's natural response is. But I'm going to do this anyways because I have these habits in place that are going to help move me through, through that. So the biggest thing is people not thinking they have control over their thoughts. You do Your thoughts are just thoughts, and you make them mean something. You attach emotion to it. You attach meaning to it, and you just got to understand that. And that is an awareness. And that is just for me. I read books on brain neurology. Like, I understand other people. That may not be their cup of tea, but it's a part of the process of acknowledging and understanding how you are on a psychological, emotional level. And then you can understand yourself uniquely, how you uniquely operate in the world, and then also how you may want to be. And then start connecting the dots with like, hey, I'm starting to see. This is. This is what's happening here. Okay? The awareness is the first step, and then the second step is, what are you going to do about it? Do you want to change it? Do you want to move past this? Do you want to move through the discomfort of change to be on the other side? Or do you want to sit in the discomfort of your plain old shit? You know, and there's no right or wrong. And there's times when I've done that, and then there and then each time I make these quantum shifts is because I'm sick of my shit. I'm sick of it. And that's. That's on me. You can't look at other people because it's. It's a lot of things. And I've been burned in the past where I've helped a lot of people who didn't actually want the help, who didn't actually want to change. You know, it's that saying, you can lead a donkey to water, you can't make them drink. Right? So the desire has to live within you, that you want and that you see for yourself something different. And then it's just a matter of that awareness, the desire to change. And then this is where I want to go identify that pin and then figure out how to get from this pin to this pin. And that is just some consistent effort that you want to do and then just move and shake with that as your desires come and go.

And I think what I'm hearing, too, is, like, there has to be the willingness, like you said, like, someone has to want to change. Nobody can make someone change. I mean, we see that in things like, you know, drug and alcohol interventions. Unless the person really wants to go to rehab, they're going to leave two days after they check it. You know, like, we just. We know people, there has to be a willingness, but. But also, you know, kind of like what I'm hearing from you, too, is even if you're not sure how to get there. Even if you're not sure what the steps are, even if you're learning along the way, a little bit of winging it. As long as there's like a shred of belief that something could be different, that is growth, mindset, like that will start to move you in the direction. And then as you move and you learn and you grow, the belief gets bigger. But as long as there's like a shred of belief, and I talk about my clients that all the time, like as long as there's that, that shred of belief, you know, there's possibility. You don't know what it looks like, but you know it's there and it's, it's a little something to get your hooks into.

So yeah, absolutely. It's that, you know, you're building a belief in yourself, you're building self trust in yourself, you're expanding your own capacity. So always make sure too that you are reflecting back on where you've come because it's so easy to get wrapped up in, well, I'm not there yet. But also look back and see how far you've come. And some things that you never thought you'd get past, you're already past them. So always do make sure that you kind of commend yourself along the way. It's the same thing that we would do to a friend that we see or a client. We'd be like, man, look at how far you've come. That's amazing. But we forget to do that to ourselves. So that is really key as you are moving through some of these uncomfortable steps as you move forward, is to remember that. And then also, as you'll notice, when I was doing growth stuff, I didn't do it alone. I didn't do it with everything that just lived in my brain. I read books, you know, listened to podcasts. I, you know, had trusted friends and then I had trusted mentors that I paid and that I didn't pay, you know, so it's important for you to get perspective as well so that you don't become an echo chamber of your own thoughts and feelings. Because you're just going to get in this hamster wheel of, of no momentum there and there doesn't have to be a price to it. Like, I grew up poor, generational poverty, but I was able to get to this point where I built a brand from zero to seven figures, no business degree, didn't graduate high school, all that stuff, because I just took what I had at the Moment, a free thing over here. Books. Like, I've always been an avid book reader and just shifted the topics that I was reading so based on where I wanted to go. And I did that all the time. And then when podcasts were a thing, you know, before that it was YouTube or it was like Facebook lives and stuff. So there's a lot of free stuff that can help move you in that direction. Until like now. The last several years, I've paid big tickets for mentors and rooms to be in. And the reason was I wanted to create exponential growth. I wanted to skip and just have this snowball of momentum. And it does. So you can go at your own pace as well. And there'll be seasons of that too.

I love that. I think there's something to be said for anybody, a teenager, Right. And doesn't have that maybe doesn't have access to anything. Like you said, general generational poverty and go to the library and you get books and yeah, I guess maybe the growth would be a little slower, but it's something. And then again to just see. I think we learn. And that's why I wanted to have you on too. Right. We just learn so much from other people's stories. So there is so much free information out there. And then as you move further in life or there's more resources and stuff. Can you talk a little bit about growing up in poverty? I know you mentioned too, like your mom had mental health struggles, your parents divorced at some point, who did you live with? Like, are. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Absolutely.

You know, even if someone didn't grow up in poverty. Right. I think money mindset is so big and I'd love to talk to you a little bit about that too. And I'm sure, you know, you work with clients on that and I talk with my clients about it too. So just the. That mindset. Right. And growing up in that environment. And again, I know that's like a big general question, but I just think there's. There's so much there.

Yes, it definitely helps to see that capacity even if you don't have a lot. So again, we moved around a lot, so we didn't have a lot of stuff because that, you know, it costs money to move a lot of stuff between states, between towns. Right. And you know, I had a lot of hand me downs from my brother, so I had my brother's clothes and those different things. Thank God that was the style back then. But all of those different things were normal to us, you know, and then as we grew older, you know, we could see, compared to other people's living situations and stuff, we're like, oh, okay. But for me, I never saw it as a lack. We never had conversations in the house of, we can't afford this or we can't afford that. We actually did not have that language in the house. I. When my parents divorced, we were all at a young age, like six, when that separation happened for me. And then we lived with my mom and we moved closer to her family in Upper Michigan from Minnesota area. So we had some support there, seeing our grandparents and having a little bit of that and some of her cousins and other people over in that area. So we had a sense of community there for a little bit. And, you know, my mom grew up in the 50s, and, you know, her mom had a large family, so she was really good at, like, making things right. So seam. Seamstress and, like, secondhand and all those different things. So that became fun for us. Going to the bread store, where we could get the discounted bread and the discounted little snacks, where we went to the thrift store, and it was like, we're gonna find some nuggets in here. And, like, it was, like, a fun thing for me because I always. I didn't feel a lack even when there were months where we only had, like, potatoes, you know, or, like, cheap food like that. And we're Native American, so we receive what's called commodities through the federal government. Those are pretty void of nutrition. So we grew up on everything being canned. In fact, I distinctly remember, not until my twenties did I actually like the taste of fresh fruit. Wow. Because everything was in a can, including meat. We had powdered eggs. We had powdered milk. We had all, like, the big blocks of cheese, potato flakes, like, all those things. Right. So, you know, nutrition was a big thing. And that, you know, continues to be a learning curve for me as I move into, you know, throughout my life. But we just didn't have, like, a fear around money for some reason. My mom was, you know, I. We still had fun. I remember us having fun. We were always out and about libraries. We went to libraries a lot. Libraries were actually, like, my safe space. I loved going to school and being in school, so learning and all that stuff. That kind of took a turn in high school when we were homeschooled, but actually not homeschooled, so. So, I mean, all those different things were just kind of excitement to me. And it's very interesting because my husband actually, who's not from the Us and was in a very third world country. He has a different mindset. We had a very similar, like poverty based background, but in his household, because we actually identified this recently where in his household he was always told there's not enough money. So it's, you know, he's had to readjust his scarcity mindset of like, we're never going to have enough grasp onto it. Whereas me, I had the same poverty, but we'd never had that conversation. There was never like, oh, we can't afford this, we can't afford that. It's just like this is what we have and we love it. And like a lot of things were just free, like going to the library and you know, I didn't even know that you paid for books until my twenties. So I was like, just get these wherever. And it was like such a great thing for me. And you know, playgrounds and parks and we were in Upper Michigan, so there was a lot of nature and outdoors and small town and riding your bikes and without any of those bigger city fears, you know, so a lot of that happened. And then also, you know, so there. So there wasn't that scarcity conversation around it. And I do remember from a young age, because of my mother's mental illness, my brother had to kind of take over the finances and pay the bills and make sure things were being paid. And I would see him do that and then I wanted to be like him. So I would create little bills for myself in my room and I had this little wall calendar of like when this is due and, and when this is due. And then I had like a little job because we all had jobs like well before we probably should have, but whenever we get our little checks in and like I would buy like back in the day we had, you know, the CDs in the mail and we had like the books in the mail, like the Reader's Digest. And then we actually had a. I signed up for like a makeup service in the mail. It was called Cosmetique. And I would deliberately create these little bills for myself as they come in. And then I would write on my calendar when they're due and then I would pay it with my little check. And I would just feel like so grown up and, and just like love that. And I was like, I am so just put together and I, I'm paying these bills and I'm just doing all the things that I need to. And that just created in me a sense of accomplishment, some sense of capability, a sense of control over a Chaotic environment of like, yeah, we can do this, we can handle this. We can get this together. We can do this. And we were fine with having less. You know, I never was like, oh, I want this from, you know, whatever the latest sneaker was or this or that. I never really understood that, and I never really wanted that. Even to this day, that has helped me not try and reach every shiny object. So now, you know, I strategically spend my money wherever I need to. I'm not. I've never been someone who's been attached to the trends or, like, what this person has versus this person. That's never been taught to me, and that's never been of importance to me. And that, of course, helps me as I help other entrepreneurs and really help them assess what's important and what isn't. And then also, like, if you want to, you can, but also making sure there's some strategy to that. So a lot of these different things all came up when, you know, you could almost say as a sense of survival growing up, you know, making sure we had enough to eat, we had lights. I mean, that fell on us as kids when my mother was basically incapacitated with her mental health. And, you know, there were also other times when we were younger where we were put into foster homes because, you know, my mother couldn't take care of us. And we were split up for periods of time. And even in some of those environments, which are obviously stressful, and then you are also separated from your siblings, and we don't know how long this is going to last. We don't know who these people are. And, you know, sometimes in a foster home, then you were put into a different school or a different thing. But again, for me, as it was different from my brother and sister, for me, it was still exciting. For me, it was still like. It was almost like a sleepover in those times. Yeah, you're carrying your stuff around in a trash bag, but you're like, this is fun. Like, to me, I always thought of it as, like, an adventure and fun and different people and different things we saw in different houses and different things. Yeah, there was a lot of dark things. Foster care is not. It's a broken system. So I'm not glazing over those things, but it is a little bit of that natural tendency of mine to think on the positive side, to view this as something that is interesting to me. I'm curious about. And it's a miracle of some sort that I did not get into drug abuse or alcoholism or, you know, like, pregnancy or any of that kind of stuff, you know, And I can't say the same for my brother and sister, but for me, those things just never took hold, you know, even though I. I saw those around and in my immediate family for a long time, as well as violence in the home, you know, so those sorts of things were always like. They helped me be emotionally regulated because I also learned from an early age that emotions can be scary, emotions can be chaotic. So over time, as you understand how those things work, you have to continue to do your due diligence and your personal development to kind of unearth those things and really understand where the root comes from and be owning that those things and take care of that and realize what your triggers are and all those sorts of things. But, you know, those things just taught me how to live in a way that allowed me to see the nuances of people, to really understand how someone is feeling and really understand that what they may be doing, there's something deeper. So from a very young age, I always have seen, oh, how this person is acting or what this person is saying, they may not have control over that, or there's something deeper that is prompting that. And that has served me well throughout where I don't take personal offense to someone who's maybe projecting some stuff or attacking me. And certainly in my first business, there was, you know, some of that. You have employees and all the things. But I never took that to heart because I always knew that that originated with them. And so that has really served me well and really being able to take what I need and fix what I need and then also leave the rest.

I so appreciate you sharing all of that because it's. Everybody's story is so personal. And like you said, there's definitely deep, dark parts, you know, to everybody's life, but it's. It's so inspiring and just phenomenal that you had such an innate sense of adventure and ability to regulate. Yeah, of course you learned things along the way and as an adult and what, you know, you said you and your husband pieced together something the other day about growing up similarly, but just looking at it from two different ways. And so as adults, even we're still learning, but there was just this innate drive and paying imaginary bills and stuff like that when kind of modeled. Right. Your brother took over, but again, like you said, out of survival. So it's just phenomenal to know where people have come from and hear their stories and then how it's shaped things. Right. And. And kind of where they're at now and stuff. So when you look at life now, could you. And sure, hindsight's always 20 20, right? But if you went back to like, I don't know, seven year old you, and you could see you now, would you be like, that's not us. Or, or even as a kid, you were like, I'm going somewhere. I don't know where it is, but I'm going somewhere. Like, was that belief there? The life you live now, are you like, yeah, this is, it's got its challenges, but this is, this is where I belong. I, I knew this all along.

So yes and no. So I always knew that I would get out of my hometown. I knew that I would go off and want to see the world and be able to see that. I had no idea, I had no money, I had no car, but I had this belief of like, I'm gonna get out of here, I'm gonna live some life. I'm gonna live someplace where there's more diversity and like, understand different things and just put myself in these experiences. Because I love that and I have always thought that. But I never anticipated that I would be able to found a business from zero and build it to seven figures. I didn't even know that was a possibility for me. I knew that I had drive and I was intelligent and I was curious and I was resilient enough to do what I want to do. And each time that I did something that I thought I wanted to do and I actually did it, I was like, oh, I really can do anything. And I started to believe that, like, whatever I want to do, as long as I plan and I take the action and I keep moving forward, it will happen. And it'll usually happen in a better way than I ever thought. And that's exactly what happened with my business. Because I've always been a natural, like, leader. Even when I've had little jobs at like a gas station where I'm by myself, I like challenge myself to get like a perfect till or like, make sure everything is stocked the way I like it and like all these different things, right. I've always been a goal oriented person and a leader and a driven person. Even when no one has given that to me, I create it myself. And so that carried along into the career that I chose, which was a hairstylist. And, and back in the day, you could only get that through university. So I went to university for that because that was what I could afford. Because I needed student aid. They didn't have any private schools. I couldn't afford those anyways. So I was like, okay, this is great. I'm going to learn a skill, I'm going to do this. And then top of my class, all the things. Then I went into the workforce and quickly, within my first year in the workforce, I was already leading, whether I was asked to or not. Is it just my impetuous youth? But I was just naturally like, oh, this is a better way to do this. This is a better, more organized way or more efficient way. And so I started seeing and understanding my capacity and my natural skill sets and then putting myself into situations and saying yes to every opportunity that came my way, whether I knew I could do it or not. I just said yes because I knew that, that I would figure it out. Because I already knew that I could do some shit like that. You know, I don't know how, but I just end up doing it. And so I always said yes to those things, like a manager or, you know, then I'm leading a team and then I'm a regional and like all these different things where I was like, oh, there's really something to this. And I was still building my capacity for myself. And I would have people give me feedback where I was in corporate salons. They put me into salons that were ready to close and then I would turn them around a 90% profitability in the first year and then they would move me to another one. And I was still required to work full time and have my full clientele and perform at my level. So. And I still didn't know that that was a skill because I didn't have any business sense or any of that kind of stuff. I just heard that from my supervisor and I was like, okay. And then all of these things started piecing together as a common thread when I started getting a little bit of an inkling from my husband because he saw something in me before I did when it came to business, and really just having a natural understanding and skill for that. And so I went off on my own for a little bit and he's like, I really think there's something here. And so then we moved to another state where you weren't allowed to be a booth renter. And so I was like, okay. So I went back in corporate, did that, and then I got really burnt out and then started to work for other people. And again, my natural tendency, I'm a leader. I want to improve things. I want to. I see the operations whether I want to see them or not, I just do. And so then I was improving other people's businesses and making them. And then it just got to a point where I was like, why am I building someone else's dream when I can build my own? And I have. I was like, I'm kind of proving it to myself that I've done that over time and I've built that capacity. And of course, my husband was like, finally. You know, so. So he's like, you know, I had.

To him for seeing it, but, like, not pushing you before you.

He's like, I know that you needed. You needed to get there, but I saw you, and I was like, I really appreciate it because you got to build the capacity, right? And then you have the support on the back end, you know? So then I was like, okay, I think I can do this. And then I started looking into, like, financing and looking at locations and different and started to just really be like, I can do this. Because also when I started my business, I got an SBA loan, and that's where I got some working capital, and I got some things going on there. Well, that process of an SBA loan is intensive. It's a government thing. But guess what? I had already navigated, like, government paperwork, food stamps, all that stuff when I was younger, and then also when I went to college, when I filled out federal forms for financial aid. So all of these different things prepared me for that, where I was like, oh, yeah, I don't want to do this. I don't want to do this. It was easy for me to create this package for this federal funding because I had had experience in that. So I was like, okay, this is not a big, scary thing for me. Let's move forward and do that. And then I was like, I know this is going to be great. I'm going to work hard. And from day one, because I had already stepped away from doing hair services because of some severe skin and health issues and had started educating myself on organic and holistic things in the industry that were pretty brand new about 10 years ago. And so then I opened my business, being 100% away from being the service provider and was 100% on the back end, and then just used my expertise of the types of brands and different things that were there and just hired everyone to work directly with the clients. So from day one, I started robust. I started with a full team, full hourly team, full stylists. Like, I didn't know hr. I didn't know paperwork. Like, I deliberately put myself in a situation where I had to learn because I wanted to learn. I Wanted to learn things that I didn't know. And so I took those certifications and did those things right away. And then to get to the point where I'm like, because I was always told, your first couple years in business, you're not going to make money, you're not going to be profitable, you're just going to kind of have to slug through and like get through it, right? By our first fiscal year, we were profitable. By our third quarter of our first fiscal year, we were taking large profit chunks in addition to our salaries. So. And I was like, oh, well, there's something here. Oh, okay. And so then I'm like, okay, can we sustain this, can we grow this and all the things. And then that's when it was like multi location, 20 plus employees built to million dollar status. Consistently, year after year growth was off the charts. 51 year, 67 another year, last year was like 87%. So like consistent. Because, you know, a salon is a cash cow. It's always bringing in cash. So top line revenue doesn't matter much in that industry. It's more of, are you keeping it, what are you doing with it? You know, how are you investing it back into your team, your business? And we had, we had employees. So I did, you know, IRAs with company matches. I did health benefits, paid education. So it was robust, it was a robust business. And to be able to do that and still be profitable, still maintain seven figures, I was like in the middle of it, I distinctly remember that. I was like, this is me, this is me doing this, this is what I'm doing and I love it. And I'm so much better at this than I ever was in doing hair. And I enjoy it so much better. And then I also enjoyed mentoring my employees to reach six figures in one year. Very similar to what I did in corporate salons, but individually, get them to a great spot from zero to six figures and then they would go off and start their own little businesses. And I would be able to like, you know, I gave them the technical skills, paid for their education and I also mentored them in the soft skills of like budgeting and understanding your numbers and realizing that cash isn't everything if you're not slipping through your fingers. So I was able to help many of my employees start their own businesses too and really own that. And then just to really start understanding what that looked like and building that capacity. And then when I sold and exited those very abruptly to the community. But something that I had needed to do probably for a year prior as we all know, we have those nudges to move on. And I realized that this just wasn't the industry for me anymore. And I needed to be in an environment where, like, health mindset and business practices were celebrated and encouraged and grown. And then I wanted to directly serve that business owner, because that's really what was lighting me up at the time and where my actual zones of genius are. Instead of working through my employees and then through the clients, I wanted to help that person who was like me eight, ten years ago, who's, like, building the capacity and understanding what they can do and what they can't, and then also understanding that and owning that these were things that came easy to me and that they don't come easy to other people who are entrepreneurs. So being able to give my natural skill sets and my zones of genius to someone else where they, you know, help them fill in those gaps and those holes in their business and really create some scalability and some financial stability became, you know, such a passion of mine. It was a passion of me to do that with my employees and obviously with my business. But then now I'm like, I really want to help that direct business owner and do that. And all of these things just built that capacity in me. Yeah, there were dark times, and there was times when I needed to pivot and make big decisions. I mean, you know that if we have. If you have any measure of employees and overhead and physical locations. Right. And that business was in the middle of COVID too, where we were forced to close down and all of that. So lots of big shifts in there didn't lose momentum and, you know, still maintained top 1% in the industry, top 1% in our niche, and all those different things. So now that I reflect back on that, I'm like, okay, these are the things that I love doing, the things that I had to do that I don't necessarily love. So then I really just dissected 19 years in that industry, eight of them in the business, ownership of the industry, and just being like, what do I want to take with me? What do I really love? What is unnecessary for me? And then just really moving forward. And I've been able to have, you know, such meaningful success in this new venture of helping that business owner through mentorship. And also done for you, work has been really rewarding because I. I'm in my zones of genius, and I'm also still stretching myself to learn and grow, which is hugely important for me.

I love that you said, you know, you brought up passion because I just from talking to you, right, and hearing how your story has brought you again to where you're at now, like there is such a passion and a knowing, I know what I'm good at. Or you had those moments, you're like, this is me. I'm, I'm doing this and your husband seeing it in you and stuff. So what I want to ask you and I want to get to people who maybe also don't own businesses, but for someone who owns our business, someone who's an entrepreneur, I think when, when we look, especially these days to work with someone and we know their story and we connect with them, we're so much more likely to want to engage in with them, follow them, hire them, be part of their orbits, support them and all of that stuff. And that's why I love these conversations. So if, if there's a, an entrepreneur, a business owner, how do they know they need a Michelle?

So that's a great question and a question that comes up quite a bit. I do have some posts on my Instagram that address that because I've done a lot of those in one on one calls. So the main thing when you know it's time to hire someone like me, so someone in operations is you are crushing it on the front end. You're crushing it in your branding, your marketing. You are a good leader, you have a measure of success. You do understand your numbers to a certain degree, but you are self proclaimed. I suck at numbers. I look at a spreadsheet, I get overwhelmed. I know I'm bringing in money, but I don't really know where it's going. I don't know if I can hire, I don't know if this offer is doing well. So there's a lot of ambiguity and a lot of questions when it comes to like where your money is actually going and how it's being used. That's when you know you need someone in the operations and that is different from like a cfo. So a financial person, yes, I do help with financial analysis and budgeting and stuff like that, and also systems, but I actually don't care what systems you use. I'm not a notions expert. I'm not in asana. I'm not this or that I can let you know. But the main thing is, is I look at where you're at now and I help you immediately plug some holes, whether that's time, energy or money. So helping to kind of anchor, I call it an anchor and like get a stable foundation of what you already have before we start adding anything new, right? I don't ever do that. I'm like, let's see where you're at right now. Let's get you some quick wins now. Which means a lot of times it is a lot of my clients, I'm giving them back five hours a week in time, like immediately. I'm helping them with any kind of onboarding or hiring issues and any questions around that. I'm helping them forecast, I'm helping them with timelines and I'm helping them all of those things help them be less overwhelmed and less stressed because they're. Because when you're an entrepreneur and you're not in your zone of genius, but you know, these things are important, you get overwhelmed. I just got off a call with one of my, you know, long standing clients and she's like, I feel overwhelmed. And I'm like, okay, great. Let me know where you're at right now. What's on the agenda for the week? I remind her of how far we've come and then by the end of it, she's like, Yeah, I do 1, 2 and 3. Perfect. So like I help you. So I'm emotionally regulated. So I'm like, yes, we're gonna acknowledge it. Then we're gonna also like anchor ourselves in some data and some facts and then we're gonna create a little bit of some timeline for you. And then when they say things like, well, what about this and what about that? Then we determine if that's a priority and if that's a needle mover in the immediate, which is the next 30 days. If it isn't, then we're going to table that. We're gonna put a pin in it, we're gonna pencil it for two months in, in the future. So that way it's like, it's not forgotten. But this is what we're going to focus on right now. That's going to help you with your anxiety, with your overwhelm, and also how to intelligently use your revenue in a way that's going to move you forward and assess anything else that may come up in the mix. So that's really what that looks like. And I know operations as a brand, like a large type thing, but for me it's important. When you want to work with me specifically, you're looking for someone who has had that experience of working with teams, of building something from zero, of understanding that language 100%. Like the experience needs to be there, not just in theory. Because when you are building a business in a creative industry, with all women, there's a, there's a lot of dynamics there, right? There's a, there's a lot of ways that you need to get creative in the way that you communicate with those team members, right? And that takes that self awareness and those sorts of things. So hiring someone who has that experience right out of the gate is going to reduce your trial and error and is going to give you an immediate ROI on your investment. So you really do want to make sure that you are connecting with someone. That is your immediate need. If you're looking for something that is like, hey, I need sales right now, then maybe you want to do a sales coach or you want to work with messaging, but if you're like, hey, I'm ready to grow and I'm really unsure of my back end, like it can take it, then you need an operations person or if you are generating revenue by creating another offer, you need to stop and you need an operations person because you don't actually know where your money is going. So you think that you need to create something new to bring more of that in. And operations anchors you. So you're going deeper, not wider. Because nowadays in a recession like has happened many other times before, you also want to work with, with someone who's had experience building businesses and recessions, which I have several of them. So you really need to understand that. And then what you want to see is someone who is anchoring in that foundation and they want to grow. So again, it's the desire. If someone is fine where they're at, then they're fine where they're at. There's no shame or blaming that. Right? But I want to work with people who see that there's a need, they want to change it and they want to continue to grow and that they are open minded and passionate enough that they are okay with someone giving them feedback on how to do things differently. I actually have, even in my contracts people that were like, this is not a good fit for you. If you are looking for quick wins, I'm here to produce sustainability and sustainable growth. I will give you some quick wins. But I'm not here to say you're going to make 10k in your first month with me because that's unreasonable. I'm not, I'm not looking for that. I'm also not looking for clients who are not willing to own their shit. If you're going to still keep making excuses and being defensive and projecting and blaming X, Y and Z in your control and out of your control, then you're not ready for me because I'm, I'm not going to deal with that. I want to deal with people who are ready no matter what comes across their desk, they want to be prepared for it and they want to work with someone who has been there and who can help them do that and give them the strength to do that throughout. So. And I know that there's a lot of people who are established and who are busy. I've been there where they're like, I know that's important, but I don't have the time to do it with you. Then that's when it's like, okay, then it's a done for you contract and a done for you offer. And I have those too, where it's like, you let me know we meet regularly and then I just go ahead and do it. As opposed to the one to one mentorship, which is we do it together. Together over a period of time. So, you know, I work with both types of entrepreneurs who enjoy that process either way.

And what's super cool about all of this and, and I hope it's coming across is this mirrors life, right? Business mirrors life. It, it mirrors personal life. So even if someone is listening and they don't own a business, they're not an entrepreneur. They're like, I would love a Michelle. But they don't, they don't, you know, need that. This is. You audit your time. Do you keep taking on things because they're shiny objects? Oh, I'm gonna try this new diet trend. I'm gonna go do this thing because social media says I should like everything you're saying. And I think it would be super good for people to just go back and listen to what you just said. Mirrors life and being able to like, where is, where's my money going? Right? Where's my paycheck going? Where's my time going? Where are my resources going? All of that stuff. And, and I think it's so important, and I can imagine the people who work with you that their personal lives also probably grow exponentially because there, I just don't see a way to really hone in on this stuff, business wise and then not have it wonderfully bleed into your personal life. I mean, it's, it's just, it's so parallel. It's so cool. And I really like, I will go back and listen to everything you just said too, because I, I just think it's mirrors. I mean, it's so cool. Everything that you just, I, it's so important.

Yes. And Obviously, this is another thing that people should keep in mind. Someone who has success in business, you will probably see that they also have their stuff together in their personal life. So even in my personal life, I've lost 60 pounds in my life and kept it off. That takes a measure of consistency and diligence and education and certainly. And then I had hormone issues as I entered my 40s. So starting to think at look at things differently. So all of these things, you know, I can't be consistent in business. No one can. If their life is a mess, you know, if their energy is all over the place, their personal lives themselves are scattered and chaotic. You are not going to have those in a business. You're not going to have those kind of results that you want unless you are taking stock on what you do have in front of you. What are you putting in your mouth, what are you looking at, what are you taking into your eyes, your ears, your brain? Are you feeding yourself positive reinforcement or are you feeding yourself junk in a lot of different ways? You know, that comes with auditing your time, auditing the people that you hang around with. Like every time I made shifts, make no mistake, I had to completely walk away from groups of friends, from parents, from environments, from states, from homes that no longer served me and where I wanted to go mentally, emotionally, physically. I would never have been able to have the type of business if I was still eating junk in all the ways, not just through my mouth, you know, if I still had all these negative, toxic people around me, these gossipers, these this or that. And also in my business, in an industry that is notorious for being catty and backbiting and gossipy, I mean, everyone goes to the salon to talk shit, right? To vent all the things, right? So that permeates in that industry and it's also celebrated unhealthy eating habits, substance abuse, all those different things. So that is celebrated in that industry. And to be able to have a business where I stood out because I was a low toxic organic salon and that bled over into my culture and so I did rise quickly because that was unheard of. But those sorts of things I can't initiate and cannot do if I am not have already accomplished some of those things, have habits and have routines around those things and then also continue those things. So I still have morning routines, nighttime routines, I have workouts, I have things that I eat that I know that lift me up. I have everything I do. I am constantly auditing what I'm reading, how I'm doing this, what I Need here. Yeah, we all slip up and fall because we're human, we're not robots. But the point is that you know where you fell and how to get back up and move forward and to have that measure of success. And then you will feel more capable in what you can do, and then you will actually be able to see who you really are, what you're here to do, how you're here to do it, and who you're here to impact. Because everyone can have an impact, and it's just a function of you being the solution to your problems and creating a positive environment around you.

I want to ask you really quick, you. You kind of brought it up. We talked offline about this and, you know, like you said, I've walked away from toxic groups of people, family members, places, states. All of that. Going to go on a little bit of a tangent here because we talked about it. Female friendships. As an adult, I hear from my clients all the time. It's not easy and for multiple reasons, not one reason. There's a lot going on, but women have a hard time finding friends. And not, not anything bad, but just because we're all in our houses and we're living our lives and, you know, like, you're in high school with people and you meet your people and then you go to college. And then as adults, like, things change. And, you know, when my son was in kindergarten, he would make friends for me because I would meet all the moms. Like, life just happens. And I think there's a lot of adult women who are like, I would just want to normalize with you for a second how not easy it can be sometimes to find your people. And I think what's important too is, is like, you keep reiterating, knowing yourself, surrounding yourself, the junk you feed yourself. And like you said, not just in your mouth and the food, what suggestions, advice, Normalize it for the people listening about female friendships, because again, you throw entrepreneurship in there, and that's a whole nother. You also need some people who are going to shoot it to you straight. And you and I talked about that. So can you speak to that a little bit? Because I know you have some experience with that.

Yes. So like I mentioned earlier, I've always been a natural leader. And when you don't have the title of leader and you act like a leader, that can put off some like, who does she think she is? Type vibes. And I definitely got that in those female friendships throughout the years and. But that didn't stop me being who I wanted to be and how I wanted to operate in the world. I was just like, I don't really like that energy. I'm gonna move on. But it's, it's obviously not as easy as I make it sound. Certainly in that first business that I had, I was in an industry where I stuck out the way that I just operated my business. There was no one else like me. They were always still attached to the chair. There was no one who still had a love of the industry and had a knowledge of the industry, but was all on the business side. I couldn't find anyone. And we were in the top 1%. We went to those kind of top industry events. And I was like. And I literally was like, hey, what are you doing? Who are you? Like, I really tried to like figure out, are these my people? Like, can I relate? And I just couldn't. And then also I had changed my habits. I. What, you read different books. I, you know, was doing different things like that. Like I brought my lunch with me, like, which is a novel idea. I didn't just exist on coffee and water and like a handful of this or that, you know, it was like, no, I've got this. I had my workouts. I was, I had a trainer, like all the things and it just was not there. I could see nothing like that around and it, it made me lonely. I started almost from day one actually going out into my local community and like setting up coffee dates with other salon owners in our local community to just be like, let's get some stuff together, let's see if we can connect. And it fell flat every single time. It just, they were either just wanted to sit in the negativity and just talk shit about their employees or like whatever and like not. They weren't solution based, you know. And then also they couldn't relate to me because their skill set was not in operations and business and they had someone for that and all the things. And I'm like, I'm just not seeing myself in the mix. So it created some loneliness. But also that is when I saw the need to dive deeper into an online. What I'm, who I'm following, who I'm taking in those podcasts, those things that were, I was listening to of these people that were normalizing how I operated, what I was doing, that these goals were good, you know, because I had employees in my business where I would bring in all the books that I read from the previous year and just give them to my team, whoever wanted them. And I distinctly remember one of My employees saying, like, why don't you read any normal books? And I'm like, what? Like wizards and dragons and don't care about anything else. I'm like, I'm fine. But like, again, it was those kind of phrases that were like, oh, this. This is not normal to this people. So I need to find people where this is normalized because I'm not going to stop personal development for you, honey. So. But also just realizing. So again, self awareness. And also, I've never been one who's interested in fitting in. So again, that awareness of me, of I want to grow and learn, and if you're not okay with that, well, then I don't want to be like you. You know, I don't want to live the life that you live. I want to be around people who normalize that. So I began diving into kind of that virtual world because I was in brick and mortar and like, everyone around me just, you know, in my industry and events and different things were not who I was. And so that's when I relied on that. And that's when I started getting these great relationships I went to, started going to events outside of my industry and getting to these rooms where that was normalized, that big thinking, that ambition, healthy eating, healthy mind, all the things and. But that wasn't easy. There were many years of being lonely, of having other women talk to you, like, having employees that were just didn't understand what I did. And so somehow they thought I was taking from them because they just didn't understand how I got paid. I'm like, okay. And like, all these different things was just like, I don't, you know, I need to find myself in a way that I can continue to move forward in a positive way without deluding myself and what I've done so far. And so brick and mortar. Then I went online, and that's when I started really discovering that. And that unlocked it a lot of things in me. And that also towards the end of my tenure in my first business, before I sold it, that's when I was like, there is something more to me. I think that I have maximized this industry and what I can get out of it in this environment. I mean, I was the leader in a lot of these different things. And so I was like, I just really feel like I need to move on and serve a different audience in a different way and in a different environment. And that was the catalyst for me to go online, serve that person. And then I made a vow to myself, similar to when I had My first business, almost from day one, I started meeting with those people. So guess what I did when I did that online after I did a year of deep diving and, like, just really clearing out kind of that 19 years of, like, what do I do? And then I was like, okay, I'm ready to go. I know where I want to go. Okay, who do I want to connect with? And that in the online space, as we all know, is like, okay, what mastermind do we want to go? What event do we want to go to? Who do I want to follow? What are they doing? So I did a lot of kind of like, freebies and kind of just kind of tested the water to see, because I'm a person who likes to see, do your actions match your words? And that is going to take a measure of time to do that. And I'm able to do that because, again, I'm not a shiny object person. Right. Just because it's quote, unquote, popular or trending, I'm not gonna scoop that up. So I was really able to. Quickly, I just started being blunt about it. I was like, I am looking for female friends. I'm in my mid-40s, and this is who I am. And just was like, owning all of my. My light and my dark and my fun and my silly and my expertise, and just really owning all of that with no shame or blame, and just being like, I want some female friends who are like me, who want to be authentic, who want to be vulnerable, who are okay with saying, hey, I made mistakes, or, hey, I need help, and also have an expertise with which to lend a hand. And I started just really vocalizing that and just being really direct about it. And this year has been one of the first years where I've had women come into my world that are genuine, that have an amazing energy, that are complimentary to me, but also push me and challenge me, which is I love, are respectful, who are doing things that I would be doing. And we were normalizing that. Oh, you read this book? Oh, you got this book over here. Oh, you got this hormozy thing or that. Oh, wow. Like, coming from an industry where you didn't even know those names, like, now it's like, oh, yeah, you're doing this. You're working with this person, you're working with that person. Great. So now I have. I was very selective about masterminds that I was in and, you know, making sure that I trusted the hosts and the people that were there, that they were actually going to give me something. And you know, value and be seen in all the things. And I was able to generate, you know, some female friendships from that that we cultivated. And for me, I know that it takes work. So I'm not just going to be like, I need some friends. I'm just going to say it once. And then I'm. No, I'm a driven person. If you want success in business, you got to work. If you want female friendships, you got to work at it. Certainly in your mid-40s, when you're at home in your little room. Yes. Like, so I intentionally have text groups. I text into them every week. I was recently invited into a small group to do some very intimate, vulnerable, safe containers to really be ourselves in a very small thing. But I was invited to that, which is like, I've been waiting years for that, for have that come out of the blue. But also I had already been putting into the work of having these other female friendships. I check in with them, I meet them whenever I can in person. I'm DMing them, I'm checking in with them. So I have an organization to it. And it's the same concept of checking your business numbers weekly, monthly, quarterly. It's the same consistent work that you want to be doing into your friendships. And even if it is online, we have voice notes, we have voice memos. We can hop on a zoom all the things. Then also in my mastermind, it's a virtual mastermind with no meetups. I initiated inside that mastermind of, okay, I want to meet more people. And I want. I know that we love these little breakout rooms that we do once a month, and that's when we have those small containers where we can really be ourselves. And then I initiated what I called, like, zoom Chitty chats. So once a month, on a Friday, I just have an open invite to everyone in the mastermind. Just be like, there's no agenda, just a great space to just get to know each other, hype each other up, event, whatever it is, for an hour once a month. And I have this open invite. And so, you know, several of the people have taken me up on that and done that. So it's another container that I have taken the lead in doing in creating those female friendships. So it is possible. But these are the steps that you need to be focused on. One, you really do need to know yourself, and that needs to be a continual thing. So you need to know how you communicate, what you need to ask for, what fills you up, what you can contribute. So that is an awareness. And then you need to take action, you need to ask for it, and you need to ask again. And it's just like pitching yourself for a podcast or this or that. Like, nothing comes around once that tests your resolve. Do you really want this? Are you just saying it? So your action, your repeated action, your consistency is what it's going to give you success and, you know, those sorts of things. And I'm now reaping the benefits of that in a relatively short period of time because I just went kind of balls to the wall and was just like, peel the band aid off. We're just, you know, I'm in a lot of different communities, so I'm like, okay, bam, over here. Bam, over here. Okay, we're going to do zoom. We're going to do this. We're going to get this text chain going. So, like, because I'm really serious about it, I'm in my mid-40s. I mean, I don't know about you, but I ain't got time to play around. I want real quality people. And I also understand that there are different types of friends for my different needs. I have a friend where we talk about shopping and light, surface stuff, and then I have another friend who is kind of my head person, and then another friend where I'm more of a mentor to her. So, like, you know, you don't. You shouldn't expect one friend or even a couple friends to fill all the needs of you. Just like we, yes, we have a partner, we have a husband. They cannot be all things to us. That's exhausting. Just like we can't be to them. We need to have a variety. And the main thing is, is we need to have perspective. You cannot get perspective with someone who is very close to you. I call that a little bit of a bias. And then also for yourself, you need perspective in order to grow, to shine a light on yourself and to be able to evolve in your skills and your communication, which is going to help you. So those are just a few things that have really helped me. But it is out there. And if you are a woman who, because I used to be that woman, I get along better with men. I know exactly what I can expect with men. Women are shiesty. They're, you know, I don't know, you know, emotions are scary and blah, blah, blah, you know, until I was like, no, I don't believe that. I have some great friends. I know there's great women. I'm a great woman. I'd be a great friend. So, like, I stopped saying that. Narrative. And I was like, yeah, that may be the case. And, yeah, you're gonna get some no's. You're gonna get some shitty people, you know, unhealed versions of other people. Yes. I mean, that's life. And you could probably be that to someone else, you know, you never know. So it's just a function of realizing that and stop saying that to yourself, because you're just going to believe it. And it's just going to be this cycle, and I've been there. And then as soon as I was like, no, I believe something better is out there for me. I want this. I'm a great friend, so why can't I have other people like me? It's a big, bright world out there, so let's get to cracking. And that's when it's like, you got to do the work with yourself. You've got to have that energy that draws people to you. No one wants Eeyore or Fuddy Duddy. Like, I'm not gonna be drawn to that. Like, no, it's like you're kind of like a rainy day. So I want a little bit more of like a sunny or a fall day or whatever. But, like, I do like some energy in one way or the other. I don't need everyone to be like a Barbie voice and, like, you know what they call toxic positivity? No, you're gonna have some shitty days. You're gonna have some low emotional points, but you want to be able to be in a safe container where that's normalized. It's not used against you. And that can help you reassess and refocus.

It's so awesome. And I think there were so many good pieces of, again, wisdom, knowledge, advice, suggestions. A huge thing. Know yourself, right? You love the Smurfs, you go find. There's plenty of people out there that love the Smurfs. There are people that want an Eeyore. It's not a. A good, bad right or wrong. It's what works for Michelle. Right. What works for you? Who am I? And there's. Lately, I've really thought more about. Well, first of all, I think when you turn 40, you start to just give less. And you and I talked about that. And not like you don't care about people, but you just don't sweat the small stuff as much. Yeah, I want to be liked and accepted and all of that, but if I meet someone and it doesn't work out, I'm like, well, that sucks. But I wish them the best. And if I'M not their person, then like, okay, great. I hope they find their person, you know, because I want an equal energy exchange kind of thing. And, and that's, that's just life, like you said. But I think it's, it's knowing yourself and really recognizing that aspect of. I would rather be liked for who I am than have to put on a facade, than have to chase people down, then have to convince people, people to like me than have to keep up with something that I initially presented with, but that's not really me. So, you know, I, I, I just, I, when we talk about adult female friendships, I think all those pieces are super important. And, you know, I appreciate you sharing all of that because I, I do. I think a lot of women hem and ha about it, they struggle with it. I have those conversations all the time with my clients. I'm like, if I could just get all of you together, you know, if that was ethically, you know, capable, that would be great. But it's not. So I know, you know, I know people are out there and, you know, you just have to make the effort and find them and stuff like that. So I, I do appreciate you sharing that. I want to ask you one more thing. If someone listening takes one thing from everything you said, and I know this might put you on the spot a little bit, or you're going to come up with, I know you're going to come up with an amazing answer, but we talked about so many different things. If you could leave someone with just like, this is what I want you to know from everything I said, what would that one piece be?

Well, first and foremost, regardless of everything, you need to tell yourself in the mirror that you believe in yourself. You have to say, I believe in myself, that I can get through this, I can do this. And then you need to keep going. You need to keep going. That is the number one thing that has helped me in all my ups and downs in personal and professional life. When people have tried to cancel me, when I've been disowned by my mother and friends and all the things. The main thing is you have to keep going and you have to believe in yourself that you can keep going and that you can change and that you have the capacity and the desire to do so, that anything is possible if you put in the work. Anything is possible if you put in the work.

Amazing. I think it's super tangible. It's micro, it's macro. It's helpful for business owners. It's helpful for someone who doesn't run their own business. I mean, I think it's just such solid sage advice and I appreciate you sharing that perspective and everything. Thank you so much for coming on and having this chat with me and just pouring in and everything about your story and just everything you have to offer. Again, I love hearing where people have come from and everything they have to offer now, where they're at, but also like how they got there. And I, I just, I. We always hear ourselves and other people's stories. I, I know people are going to get annoyed when I keep saying that, but it's. And I just appreciate you so much. So thank you so much for being here and everything that you shared.

Yes, absolutely. I loved sharing. And you are an amazing host. To be able to bring some of these vulnerable things to light and I think are really important for people to hear. And also it's something to take heart in where if you own your story and own your experience, no one can replicate that. No one. And all of that goes into my service with clients and my friendships and all of those things. Like you're getting the whole package and that cannot be duplicated by anything else. So take that to heart too. Like every single person's experiences and who they are just makes them uniquely qualified and uniquely valuable to that next person, whether it's a friendship, a collaboration or a client. These people I always pay attention to who is in my world and who gets trained, drawn to me because there's a reason for that and I want to honor that and be able to serve them at a higher level, but not at the sake of myself. It's a way that we can both win, which I love. And I appreciate you having me on and being able to pour into your audience.

If people want to follow you, see what you're doing, potentially work with you, talk to you, connect more. Where can they find you? Where do you want them to connect?

Yes. So primarily on Instagram right now. So Michelle with two Ls.com gossame so that's G as in George H A S S E M I on Instagram. And then there is resources there as well. That's where I'm most active. And then you can also go there to book. I have a free 30 minute biz assessment. If you want to chat about business or you just want to take in my content on different things there, personal and professional, that's where I'm most active. And then that's also where I put all my links to different articles and different podcasts. I've been on so you can get a really nice bird's eye view. And then my DMs are always open. I always answer my DMs. So if you want, you know, questions or takeaways on what you loved about this, I'd love to hear them and to be of encouragement and to, and to support other people. And that's what I want and I encourage you guys to reach out.

Thank you, Michelle, for being here. I appreciate you so much. Guys, go follow her. Watch what she's doing. She's a force to be reckoned with. And I'm glad that you are in my world. And it's been, it's been really cool getting to know you. So we'll, we'll definitely have to do this again. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thanks for hanging out with me today on let's Talk about it with Laurie Streeter. If this episode resonated with you, it would mean so much if you'd leave a five star review, share it with a friend, or come say hi on Instagram at Lori Streeter, your support will help this podcast grow. And I so appreciate you being here today. I want to, to help people just like you feel like they're not alone and gain the tools they need to grow. Until next time, take care.