BlackBerry CEO John Chen on Securing and Sharing Knowledge With Each Other

It's great to be here today with John Chen, BlackBerry CEO. What a, what a treat. Hi John, great to see you.

Nice seeing you too, thank you.

Can't wait to talk today about you and how you created this culture of love at BlackBerry. Wow, becoming a most loved workplace. Tell me more about how you did it. How do you create and lead a culture that employees love?

Well, I think the most important thing is to make sure that you have a view of the culture you want to build up. You communicate to that. Not everybody, by the way, would agree with your view and all value the same way you valued it. Throughout the process of communication and working with the troops and working with the management team and be consistent. A lot of time when you say, well, we care about a community, you got to be consistent caring about a community. If there is a natural disaster, what will our reaction be? We think about putting the money where your mouth is. You cannot just create a culture on a piece of paper and say that's a really great culture. You have to practice it, and it comes from all big things and small things, not just small. And so one other thing to do is to define the culture you like and communicate it Not so much. A lot of people will tell you that, oh, you will listen to the feedback and all that. You know, a culture is almost like a character of a person. You can't really— if I tell you, hey, I want to be honest, and then you said, well, have you really thought about it? You know, you know, and I said, oh no, no, okay, then I'll think about it. I'm not, I'm not going to be that honest anymore. You know, I mean, it's, it— you have to— you define what it is and, and you stick with it and you practiced it. And that's how we go about doing it. I don't know what— I'm going to stop so that we could be more interactive. I'll let you dive into the direction you would like to dive into because it's such a broad, interesting, and also not very structured conversation. This topic is huge and it's important. But it's not structured. So anyway, I'll stop there.

It is a huge— it really is a huge topic area. And there's so much that goes along with it— behavior, expectations, goals, aspirations, vision. There's— and especially with the construct of Most Loved Workplace, we look at, well, how do people collaborate? How do they create and innovate in difficult times and in times of thriving? For that matter, you know, how do we establish respect as a cultural norm? And so those are really essential elements of any great workplace culture.

Yeah. How to pick— so culture is broad. So how to pick what it is? And so-called, you know, people like to use KPI, how you measure it, what is too much, what is not enough. It's an exercise on an ongoing care and feeding exercise. A lot of time you have to adjust somewhat. And then of course you also need to adjust, you know, a different word using the pun, Culturally, there are very diverse workforce, both in gender, age, and locations, and countries. And you've got to make sure that there's some underlying culture of honesty and integrity. And but then you have to adjust to some of those, you know, demographics differences. And so it's not easy. It's a lot of work. And circumstances always come up to test you about those work. Anyway, so we pick some very basic, you know, one of the big thing about other than those we call it table stakes. You know, obviously you don't have a company if you don't— if you, or at least a worthwhile company, if you have no honesty, integrity, um, accountability as, as your basic foundation. I'm talking— you and I are talking probably a little bit beyond that, you know, about that. Um, so we said we care about the employees. You know, how do you exhibit what do you about you caring about the employees. And so we build a program starting from training to benefits to ability for you to speak up anonymously or non-anonymously, you know, not making an environment that is overly open so people could criticize everything from the color of the wall and so forth, but really hone into the important things that is happening. Being able to be very transparent and open with our troops, trusting them not to take the company proprietary information and put it on social media. For example. And so that's always a balance, but we, knock on wood, we've been pretty good in the last decade, or I've been here 8 years, we've been doing pretty good in that balancing act.

One of the things that I see in companies today is how do they converge or co-create their products and what they do strategically with how they live inside their culture. So if I were to sort of extrapolate with BlackBerry, you know, you're exceptional at security and you've made incredible pivots to become successful and focusing on security. And I think about you sort of what you said about, you know, keeping it inside of BlackBerry, if you will, right? And you, you know, uh, well, and you have extreme expertise and technical knowledge inside of BlackBerry that would keep a Snowden situation from happening, right? So it's, uh, you think about culture, that's part of the culture, is that right? Wouldn't you say? Is that this kind of knowledge that we are truly, uh, you know, experts in, in how we secure knowledge and how we share it with each other and manage it, for that matter.

On the top level, we call ourselves— there's a mission in what we do. And then what is the mission? The mission, what we do is to secure everybody's life. And if you look at our offerings and our know-how and what we do well, it's always about security, about protection, about safety, and about alerting crisis or managing crisis. So if you look at, and then that could maps into every product that we build and sell. And that's the kind of the mission of how are we gonna change how people live. I'm not doing any commercial, but just one data point, for example, we build safety components for automobile, especially the autonomous-driven cars and the so-called connected cars. I mean, today's, the car basically, the automobile is a set of microprocessors and it's a software architecture. And they make decision, whether it's AI-based or whatever. They, they do what they do, they make decisions, they interact with other cars, and they interact with other, you know, smart city components like traffic lights and satellites and whatnot. Through that process, somebody needs to secure the data and making sure the hacking system, the hackers doesn't come in and create, you know, intrusion, and basically, you know, compromise the safety, physical safety of people and property. And so BlackBerry has, if you look at everything we do, when we do a lot of things, you know, be anywhere from ransomware to embedded into cars. We have 195 million cars today using our software embedded, and a lot of them are on safety certification, meaning that we, we control your safety components of the car— lane changes and, you know, communications and all that. Um, so that's, that's a, that's a big part of the culture. The culture is what are you doing, you know, for the society. If you recall, BlackBerry started— this is before my time— as one of the major cell phone, mobile phone company. And that mandate was just okay, was to change the way people work. Okay, you could not only work from your desk, which are used the old mainframe and a whole bunch of terminals, and you have to connect it to terminals physically by wires. Then you have to sit there with modem, which is running the slowest speeds on earth, and you sit at home and doing all that. We went and took all that into a wireless communication platform. And so you could be sitting on a beach, you could, you know, having picnic with your kids, but you could still work. And so those were the beginning of a major part of the company. And so now we have transitioned ourselves to more safety, cyber protections, and again, it's how we change the society, how we change the world. We know smart city is real, it's real, it's gonna come. Whether you and I will enjoy it fully or not, we don't know, but I bet you will, but probably less me. But we wanted to make sure that we build infrastructure that is safe and controllable and doesn't really compromise the privacy of things. Where hospital cannot be— the data in the hospital, which I have all the patients' data, needs to be protected, for example. And we do those kind of things. For the government, for armed forces, and so forth, so forth. So that, that's what we do. Then on top of that, now it's easier for me now because we, we only mostly do our software business. We already made ourselves, for example, socially responsible. We made ourselves carbon neutral already in 2021. Last year, 2021, we, we achieved carbon neutrality. We were one of the early ones that, you know, get with the UN mandate and, you know, turn ourselves carbon neutral and do a whole bunch of other things anywhere to deal with forestry, building, you know, growing more trees to cleaning the water. And so our technology is applied to a lot of these areas, and sometimes it's not only technology, it's financial support. Anyway, so I could go on. I'll stop right there.

And that's the fabric of your company is this innovation for security now. And you also, you innovated this entire process that we all enjoy now, which is bringing our, our work outside. I say enjoy or not enjoy outside of our, of our offices. And you really created that.

Yeah.

Before anybody. And I remember having my BlackBerry and bringing it everywhere. And what was interesting about it, and I'm assuming this probably still has a place in your culture, is that I was part of that culture, the BlackBerry culture, being a user of BlackBerry. The consumer and employee culture, I think, was fairly well aligned at that point in time. Is that something that you see too? Is that kind of security alignment now, as what— now that you've shifted to that same kind of security alignment of culture as you did when you innovated the field?

Yes, what we're doing is to cyber protect what consumer actually employ and touch. I use a lot of examples about the car. You know, it will go beyond the car, you know, medical equipment and drones and, and, you know, different smart city components. So we're trying to communicate, secure the communication among devices and, and, and, and infrastructures. So We will then now be a silent protector for all the consumer who, you know, gets on a train or a boat or, you know, or get in a car that's self-driven or get in a car that's connected to the internet and driving that way. And, you know, and all your healthcare facilities or the devices of the healthcare devices like infusion pumps and all that. This is what we do now. What we do is beyond just you actively using a BlackBerry in the day, the days of CrackBerry, so to speak. And that communication and that protection is now extended to your home and your office and the hospital you visit and your car, the car that transports you around.

And it extends. And I think of all of the people now, or the hackers now, who are trying to find vulnerabilities. And they'll just to get on the news. And they'll send in their— they'll put it on the Git, just that, you know, their, their, their hack on the Git. Do you have a culture at BlackBerry where they're excited about getting involved in hacking and discovering vulnerabilities? Is that part of your culture?

Yeah, part of it. In order to do what we just said we want to do, which is we're going to secure— do the best we can to secure everything you touch in the life around you, and your data. In order to do that, we need to understand and have full knowledge of how hacking works. So we do have threat hunting organization inside company. We, so we just to make the world safe. We, and you know, we do analysis of trillions of files and that word trillion. I was once— I thought when I first used it in our own, you know, internal document, I thought, well, that's a little exaggeration. I mean, that's like trillions. So trillions a lot, you know. And so, but it turns out the experience we built up in the last 25 years actually come close to trillion files. So that we have scanned and gone through and looked at and so forth. And so our knowledge that we build up of what threats looks like, how it was hidden, how it comes into an organization, we have a lot of those experience. So we not only threat hunted, we prevented from a ransomware point of view. And we do white hat hacking, meaning we could offer ability to— I'll come into your organization, and hack you for, for the constructive reason to see how vulnerable you are, for example. So we do all, we do all that now. Yes, we do.

It's exciting. And that's what really makes a cool culture. And you think about the way that that interacts with other companies who are doing similar things in the value chain, not necessarily competitive things, but similar in the value chain. I think of Mihir Shukla, who's the CEO of Automation Anywhere. He's another most loved workplace. And there's such a synergy between the two of you because he automates and in everything in, in, uh, at work, at home, and anywhere that requires automation, even into robotics. And everything is hackable at every stage as we move on to that. And even with the concept of singularity, you have a huge part in that, in ensuring that it's not hackable, it's not, it's not too human, if you will, that, you know, we go beyond the humanity, we are able to enable, we're able to allow for automation and being brought from here to there to be very secure. And that's an important part of the culture.

It is, it is, it is a big part of our culture. Again, the culture goes back to the employee loves it, because we're making a difference. We're making a difference on, you know, how the world automate, you know, kind of like without us, these things might not be trusted. So that's kind of motivating for us. So we want to make sure that all the infusion pumps in a hospital is completely managed and protected. And so that was our important thing, so the patients and the doctors could go on and do what they need to do. And to save lives. So, so yes, those are motivating for a lot of our people. Yes.

Outstanding. And it goes back to what you were saying before. In the beginning, you were saying, you know, let's not complain about everything. Let's stay in the positive. And because you have a really important mission and, you know, we can't just be complaining about everything. We have to focus on the positive, focus on our trajectory so we can be successful to save people's lives, to ensure automation, to make sure we get from here to there in automated cars properly. And that, that's a very— it brings people together as a result of that, that common mission, which is exciting. You know, what would you say, you know, things that, as you lead your team, executive team and board, your— just the way that you've, you've led in the past, what would you say for you personally, who for John, what would you say is like a really important thing that you've always believed in philosophically, how you lead? What's that one thing that you—

how, how, if it's something, how we lead?

Yes.

I always thought the most important thing, and even if I, if we're having talking about, even if we're sitting here talking about management, science. I always believe the most important thing that makes a difference to a leader is about fairness. And fairness is the hardest things on earth to deliver, because what's fair to you might not be fair to your coworker. And so in order to sit here and administrate that fairness, If you could always remind ourselves to do that, that makes a really good leader. That's my opinion. And the reason is, it's very simple. People could deal with a lot of adversity or hardship or negative if they believe they're treated fairly. People cannot handle it. You know, if I give you $10 and I give the next person $1,000 and there's no rhyme or reason for it, you both do the same job, you start— you— it's not the, you know, the dollars, the delta differences, it is the— there's the meaning that is right, this behind it. Um, so, and that doesn't mean you don't give a high reward, a high performer, a lot more than a low performer. That doesn't mean that, but you have to have— then, then you have to have the ability to articulate, you know, why that is fair. Now, in order to articulate why that is fair, KPIs and all that needs to be well defined. And however you want to do it, unless you're a computer, there's some level of subjectiveness to this. Minimizing that subjectiveness and being fair and being able to communicate about being fair is something that I would always like to practice. I mean, I don't do it 110%, but I try, I try to do as much as I can.

And it sounds like you hold yourself accountable to do it so that you remind yourself to speak, and it speaks the truth, doesn't it? So how people perceive things whatever it is that they're being given, right, or not given. And people's truths are different, so you have to manage that, that properly. You know, it's a challenge, I would assume, every day. And it is— I can see that every day with so many, so many people and so many stakeholders. That's really great advice, by the way. A lot of this is about philosophy and how to help others sort of be successful like you have, right? And so, you know, what other, what other advice would you give to tech leaders, to just entrepreneurs who are making their way to that kind of $100, $500 million mark, right, out there, who are— you're, I know you're now billion-plus. It's just getting their way up, growing rapidly. And, you know, how would you, what would you tell them to be thinking and doing and, and, and How would you help mold them?

That's a tough one, because it's different from industries, it's different from products. I prefer to focus more on market share. And so the question, you know, when we put down our plan, annual operating plan, we call it AOP, which each of the operating unit, um, is not about how much more revenue you're going to grow. And we, we do ask that question. The most important fundamental question is— oh, there are two questions, but, but, but, but the first question is, what is the What is our differentiation in that market? That whatever the market that we participate. So that's— so I need to show it up and people would say, okay, BlackBerry is doing this in this market, you know, they're, they're serving that, you know, uh, it's like a restaurant, right? What are your best dishes, right? So, so this is the way— and why would people want to buy it? So that's one thing. The second thing is, what are you gaining market share or are you losing market share? And if the market is growing 20% and you have a plan to grow 5%, well, clearly that's a problem. So, and the final thing I want to add to it, because I deal with that a lot. In fact, that was one case yesterday. You also have to have a consistent long-term plan. I mean, we look at it 3 years, 5 years out. We don't look at it like next year because you end up doing what short-term makes sense, but long-term you pay for it. And in order to have a good business or good enterprise, The sustainability is the most important thing. It's not what is it today. You know, today I got some challenges today through acquisitions, through COVID pandemic and so forth. We're looking way beyond that. I mean, we have to have a plan to say, okay, if I do this right, 3 years from today, I would see that. And I will. So I know you asked for one thing, but I gave you 3. I think you look at it long term, you look at your, your value add to whatever you're doing, and you look at it from a market share gain perspective rather than revenue. Because if, if the market is a worthwhile market, your revenue will come because, because you're gaining market share.

And it's so— it's such wise words because you're encouraging people to look at the signs and not just make reactive decisions. Think into the future, be sustainable so that your decisions may have investment in the short term. You may have a loss in the short term, yet your gain will be much more in the long term. And it's like investing. You invest, you can't just pull it out or shouldn't just pull it out immediately. You, you see the longevity of the company and of the stock itself and the decisions of great CEOs. Like you who understand sustainability and growth over a long period of time.

Yeah, sustainability is the most important because I could flip it the other way. Let's say tomorrow I go to all my customers and say, you need to only pay me once and you never need to pay me again, and I will service you for the next 10 years. And then so next year my revenue would just shot up, and then everybody would celebrate, wow, this is a great growth.. But then for the next 9 more years, you got nothing. And a similar thing is people want to be very profitable. It's easy. I go outside and tell my troops and say, by the way, take a month off without pay. This quarter I will be so profitable. It's like, wow, these guys generate a lot of cash. There's all this stuff because I haven't paid people for a month. Right now, unfortunately, you can't sustain that, could you? I mean, you can't just say, well, never come back. And so, so this is why a sensible plan will be one that is consistent and sustainable, and you're looking at the right metrics, and, and, and you make, you know, you chipped away, you know, you kind of get to that journey, uh, and, and Anyway, so that's, that's exactly what we just talked about.

It's extraordinary. John, this has been great meeting you, learning from you. No, today you have so much to give and have been so generous with your wisdom today. Thank you so much for joining us.

Well, thank you for having me. Thank you.