The Louis Carter Show - Big Ideas for Fueling Irresistible Corporate Cultures

Hey everybody, it's awesome to have you back here. Thank you for coming back to my second LinkedIn Live. This is it. I usually have been doing it just on YouTube, but now it's on LinkedIn Live and I'm so psyched about it because I love LinkedIn, love bringing great people here to join us and talking about these incredible things around purpose at work. Today with Jamie Lutz, and we're going to learn so much with Jamie, his new book Pathway to Purpose and his work at ChenMed, which is a really cool company to learn more about, and healthcare company for underserved populations. You'll learn a little bit about that and his work at Ritz-Carlton and other really service-oriented industries. We'll talk a little about, about what's happening now during COVID and, you know, what it means to have purpose right now around his book as well. And we'll just get to know Jamie. So ladies and gentlemen, Jamie Lutz is here for us. Jamie, great to have you.

Louis, it is a thrill. I've been looking forward to this for a long time, ever since you and I first had a conversation around it. So Thrilled to be with you and your audience today and can't wait to get going here.

Well, thank you again, Jamie. I know we met through our mutual friend Chip Bell, who talked about his customer experiences and that's right on the other LinkedIn Live. And we're really looking forward to hearing your perspective on these customer experiences, especially with these really, I call them just incredible blue-chip brands, right? Just amazing brands that you have incredible experiences with as a customer.. And you can even have better experiences with employees. So the, the general gist is, right, of the equation: you treat your employees right, they'll treat your customers right. And so tell me about the Pathway to Purpose and how that kind of fits in and how you're seeing your experiences really being cases to that.

Yep, absolutely. And you know, you're right, Louis. I've been, I've been blessed to work with some really great companies, great companies that get it when it comes to both employee-centric and customer-centric. You know, I had the opportunity to work with the Orlando Magic first coming out of college and got involved in a lot of their customer service and quality and cultural efforts. And I've had a couple of stints with the Ritz-Carlton in the employee experience and customer experience side. So I've been really, really blessed. And, you know, I think What led me to write this book was some of the things that I've both been involved with and led, but others that I've just really learned along the way in terms of how do you create cultures that your employees find irresistible and your customers find unleavable. And, you know, there really is a formula to do that. And the best organizations I've seen and I've studied kind of follow that methodology. And so I have documented what I've learned over the years in this Pathway to Purpose book and really feel like it's going to be a great kind of playbook for organizations that want to take their service and their culture and their employee experience to a different level.

So, Jamie, tell me about Pathway to Purpose. What are some of the main sort of golden nuggets, 2 or 3 top golden nuggets we can all take away from it?

Yeah, there's so many. But I would say, you know, if there was, if there are 1 or 2 or 3 things I would really want people to take away is, you know, one would be I believe that, that we are created, you know, to want to be part of something bigger than ourselves. And, you know, we know that as adults, 35 to 40% of our time is spent at work or en route to work. And so what better way to find that, that kind of sense of well-being and sense of purpose than through our work? So that would be one of them is it's possible. Of course, we need to and we want to make a living, but it's also possible to make a difference. And when you work for an organization that aligns with your purpose and your values and your, you know, your core values, then it's amazing what you can do collaboratively with a team. So that would be one thing. You know, the other thing that I really, really reinforce throughout the book is that, you know, this purpose journey is just that. It's a journey. It's not a race. It's not a programme d'azur that you're going to say, you know, last month we focused on employee wellness, and this month we're going to focus on Culture. Well, culture is a never-ending process. You never fully arrive because you're always trying to improve the customer experience and the employee experience. So that would be another one is, you know, look at culture as this ongoing, never-ending desire and passion to improve the experience for your employees and customers. You know, if I were to list one more, and really there are so many that I talk about during the, in the book, but, you know, probably the next one would be is that people today are not just looking for a boss. We know, you know, lots of research out there that tells us our bosses are the primary reasons we quit. We don't quit the organizations. We quit the people that lead us, that manage us. People want coaches. They want someone that's going to help them learn and grow, that'll take them where they would not be able to go on their own, and that collaborate with them to create that type of environment. Again, that's, that's irresistible. So those are some of the 3, and there's a lot more, but those would be ones that stand out.

Well, let's do this. I, I would love to dive into one in particular.

Absolutely.

Tell me a little bit about ChenMed, what they do in the market, and then we can kind of back into what purpose is there and what culture is there and how they make it awesome.

Absolutely. So ChenMed is a healthcare organization that's based out of the Miami area, and they have been in business for, gosh, 10, 12, 15 years or so. But their primary focus, and this is what endeared me to it, Louis, is is the desire to help those that are underserved. So we cater specifically to senior citizens that are in Medicare Advantage programs, health insurance programs. And specifically, we cater to those that are in underserved, often poor, needy areas. And, you know, when you think about it from a purpose perspective, That's what drew me to the company is other than maybe working for children that are in need, there's few things that I think are more satisfying in life than to, than to serve those that came before us and kind of paved the path for us. So that's— I oversee, I'm the Managing Director of Service Excellence. So at the end of the day, I'm kind of responsible for helping curate the patient experience from soup to nuts. So obviously when they're coming into our centers for appointments, we want that experience to be what we call VIP. We want it to be world-class. But any other points of contact would also be a part of kind of what I'm involved with on a day-to-day basis with the patient being the primary focus. And so the organization at large is, It is absolutely unapologetically focused on how can we serve those that are often the poor, the sick, and the old. And that's our purpose. That's what we're galvanized around.

What's interesting when I hear you speaking about your audience is that you have a deep sense of respect for them and you call them VIPs, and that kind of experience must be pervasive inside of your culture. How do you ensure that, and not in terms of practice, are there specific practices like you had at Ritz-Carlton, of course, are there things, yeah, that, that is done on a more regular basis?

Yeah, and, you know, I believe, and it's, it's funny, a lot of the practices that, that were in place at Ritz-Carlton have been adopted kind of in their own right at ChinMed. So as an example, you know, I believe One of the ways that you inculcate your values within an organization is to constantly talk about them. So again, it's not a program du jour, it's about reinforcing it over and over and over again. So at Ritz-Carlton, we used to have something called the Credo Card. And the Credo Card was a laminated card that you opened up. It had the company mission, the motto, the values, the service, elements. And we have something very, very similar at ShinMed that gets covered, uh, one of those standards gets covered every day as part of our standup. So at all of our centers, every day there's a 10 to 15 minute standup where every center comes together, every department comes together. And it's, Louis Carter, it's kind of a combination of a, of a pep rally where we acknowledge and and, you know, recognize people that are knocking it out of the park. But it's also an opportunity for us to reinforce and re-enliven those values that are important to us. And so every day, at every center, in every location, those are getting reinforced, not just from a memory perspective, but what does that look like in real life, in terms of how you're treating your customers, and how you're treating each other.

I love this. I mean, just the illustration, the picture of people standing up, and it is a stand-up, like at Ritz-Carlton. That's right. And they're talking about things that they appreciate happen, that, that is part of your values, and things they could do better even the next day. We were just talking about that before. It's the things that we really appreciate we've done and things we can do better, and saying this is a new day, we can make this awesome again today for ChenMed patients.

That's right. That's right. And it's, it's all about, you know, good enough never is. It's all about continuous improvement and we're doing great things. We want to celebrate that, but at the same time, how can we do it better? How can we focus on that purpose and make sure we're aligned on it both collectively and as individuals? And, you know, again, I think the best way to do that is to reinforce it over and over and over, and eventually it becomes part of the DNA of your organization. And I think from a Ritz perspective, that's probably one of the foundational things that made them what they are. And I think that we're doing very similar things at ShinMed and seeing those same types of results.

Yeah, I like what you had said about sort of repetition. And how important it is to not do one and done. We have to keep doing this and keep the neural pathways going, and it becomes an entire population of neural pathways and all going into the same pathways together.

Yes, and you're exactly right. Those grooves get— as you know, they get built into the brain and it becomes natural. You know, it's one thing for me to say, hey, go out and provide great service to our patients, and, and I may internally want to do that, but I may not know, like, what, what does that look like on a day-to-day basis? And so this is an opportunity for us both as we serve each other and our patients to get a glimpse of every day what that looks like and how can we continuously improve it.

And you're keeping close to your customer and you, you're knowing what they're going through. You care about them, you respect them. And you mentioned collaboration, uh, you know, so important to collaborate across the company, not just within team, right across, so that Everybody experiences this from custodial operations services all the way up to the top executive office. So do you see that happening with stand-ups, where stand-ups happen all throughout the company within ChenMed so that everybody can experience these stand-ups and experience hearing from each other and their own new pathways?

We do. And just like at Ritz-Carlton, it's a non-negotiable. But it's not something that in an environment where culture is king, it's not a forced thing. It's a want-to and not a have-to. But yeah, that's where the magic happens. That's where the collaboration happens because there is this sense of kind of psychological safety that, you know what, we're all in this for the same reason. Of course we have to make a living, but we also want to leave a legacy. We want to be able to look back someday and know that, that we did something that was of value and again, something that was much bigger than ourselves.

I think as we get older, most people often think that more and more as we leave the legacy. Whether you're young or older, of course, there's always a chance to make a dent in the universe, as Steve Jobs said, and every day of your life. And it sounds like That's what you're doing at ChenMed. I'm also interested in how at ChenMed and other companies too, and Ritz-Carlton, how they create that kind of positive vision for the future. Did it happen at the founders level, executive level? Where did it emanate from? Where did that initial positive vision for the future emanate from?

Yeah, and you know, in my book, I talk about that a lot too, that you will almost always find in an in a world-class organization that there is a founder or set of owners that brought that initial purpose and core values to life. And it's no different at ChinMed. We're a family-owned organization and the purpose and the values are driven from the top down. There's a story you've probably heard, Louis, about Burning the boats, and I talk about that in my book. Burning the boats is really, you know, it's focusing on the things that are, uh, what are you going to draw a line in the sand with in terms of being ethical and doing the right things within your organization? And that is emphasized and reinforced on a daily basis by our senior leadership, and particularly the Chin family. That these are, these are the, the ways that we're going to go about making a difference. We're going to draw a line in the sand, we're going to burn the boats, and, you know, regardless of what happens around us, we're not going to deviate. Now, we'll change our goals and we'll change our tactics, but the core of the organization does not change. And I think that's something, again, that people can really rally around because they have that trust that what that senior leadership is saying is very authentic and true and that it's something you go to the bank on.

And we talk about, and you talk about in your book, burning the boats. I always, one thing I thought of when I read that was he's talking about burning boats, not bridges.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And there's a big difference, right? Burning the boats is is not looking for ways to circumvent what the company has decided is non-negotiable. The last thing we want to do, though, is burn bridges because that's the gateway for us to collaborate and create magic together and to co-create. So you're exactly right. Big distinction there. Burning the boats is about sticking to your convictions Burning bridges would be about, it's really about me. It's not about everybody else. And I'm going to do my thing. They can do theirs. That's a recipe for disaster, obviously, from a cultural perspective.

And being willing to surrender and say, look, this has to happen. We do have to burn this boat because it doesn't align with our values. It doesn't align with our people's values either. And that's what really creates the strength of that foundation for the company. Have there been instances where you've seen that, where you have to burn a boat? You have, because you have to take a stance on something. And I always, when I talk to Patch Adams, Hunter Patch Adams, you might know of him from his movie Patch Adams. He said to me, he says, one thing I do not waver on is my values. He says, I just won't do it. He says, I care about patients, they come first, and I help them through their experiences and their palliative care as well. Because he knows how incredibly personal and emotional it is to an individual to— and I mentioned that word individual very seriously because the whole process of death and palliative care is intensely personal, intensely individual. And so one doesn't think about others when they're in that— typically in research, when they make that final phase toward leaving. They're not thinking about anybody else at that very final moment. They're intensely personalizing it. Most research shows that. So we have to— we're honoring that. I think GenMed is kind of putting their finger on that honoring of care at the end of— yeah, the last end.

Absolutely. And I think the company is— it all kind of starts with the acquiring or hiring process. Selection process. And this is outside of my area, but I know from having gone through it, the HR department is extremely careful. Obviously, you want to hire people that can technically do the job, that have the expertise to do it. But just as important is, am I aligned with the culture? Am I aligned with those burn the boats type of issues where my history and how I behave would predict what I'm going to do in the future? Very, very meticulous, very similar to what Ritz-Carlton did, is, you know, we want to make sure that, that we're getting someone that is, is going to buy into the organization and is not going to deviate based upon whatever environmental things are going on around us. So that, that would be a, you know, we don't get it 100% right, no organization does, but I will say this, you know, at ChinMed If you don't subscribe and somehow you've made it through the hiring process, if you don't subscribe to those core values, you'll either deselect yourself or you won't end up being with the organization long-term. And that's in the best interest of GenMed, and it's in the best interest of the, of the employee as well.

You know, I want to talk through that too. That's, that's interesting because you, you spoke about the things happening around us, and we, we can't duck this issue: the pandemic, especially in healthcare. What would What would you say for ChemMed or even other companies you've worked with, or what would you say— I'd love to hear about ChemMed in particular— you know, how did they enable that same culture of caring during COVID You know, what kinds of ways do they both communicate or put into practice, both with return to work or just the pandemic itself? What happened?

Tell me. Yeah, and it's not easy. You know, that's— my book came out kind of at the tail end— well, not the tail end, but kind of in the, in the middle of, of the pandemic, if you will. And it's not easy, uh, frankly, to create and maintain that culture in a virtual world. And so we've got kind of two, uh, elements within our organization. One are— one is the, um, the centers, the healthcare centers, um, where that customer-patient interaction, uh, is absolutely critical. But we were able to transition and, you know, flex to be able to start doing a lot of our appointments virtually, which is true in the healthcare field in general. But we found that our patients and that we even really, really missed that personal physical interaction. And so there were— we have something called the Top 40 in our organization within our centers, and those are the folks that have the, the largest percentage of health, underlying health issues. And so we look for opportunities constantly to love on our patients. And in the pandemic— and love actually is one of our core values, um, you know, in the pandemic there was a, a sustained effort to constantly be reaching out to our patients, whether it was a formalized appointment or not, to make sure that that they had what they need, that they, that they needed, that they felt like they had others to talk to, and that they were in a place where both mentally and physically they felt like they were, were doing okay. And when we found that wasn't the case, our, our folks in the centers are just amazing at using their empowerment to, to help our patients in unbelievable ways. And then the same thing, you know, from a corporate, non-center-specific as well is, you know, it goes back to that reinforcement. So the huddles never, the stand-ups never stopped. The collaboration never stopped. We just had to pivot and use technology to a greater extent than we ever did before. It doesn't replace it, but you do what you can in the environment that you have at the time. Again, there was constant reinforcement from senior leadership that we got you guys. We love you and we're here for you. There's going to be a day when things start to get better. Fortunately, we're seeing that now. Another way is our centers, went to unbelievable lengths to make sure we got our patients vaccinated once those vaccinations became available. And, you know, our patients, many of, many are now free, you know, to begin to have more of a traditional life again and go outside and, you know, meet with family and those that they love. So I'm rambling a little bit here, Louis, but at the end of the day You know, it's all driven by our senior leadership and their desire to make sure that we work for an organization that truly is all about making a difference. And it shows in how we behave.

And it sounds like you kept together. You used telehealth or tele— other types of methods, and we're still there for people and each other. While a lot of the healthcare industry kind of did fall apart, you did not. And part of that is really due to the exceptional culture that you've created and Cemet has created really for its employees and for customers. Always ask the question because it's so relevant right now and so important and timely. So let's talk just— so the stand-ups are huge at Ritz-Carlton. Those are the big things. And of course, the value card. Are there other things that showed up at Ritz-Carlton that perhaps people don't know about or not as widely known? Because we always, things that, things that you may have done at Ritz-Carlton or things that you see that were not as, you know, visible, right?

Yeah. And you may, you know, the audience may have heard of some of these things, but, you know, one is one of our service values at Ritz-Carlton was, "I am involved in the planning of the work that affects me." So I am involved in the planning of the work that affects me. And, you know, that, that was the company's way of saying, hey, we, Everyone has a voice here. Everyone has an opportunity to have a say in the jobs that they do and the way that they go about doing the job. And that's really all about empowerment. Many, many of our listeners and yourself, Louis, have probably heard at Ritz-Carlton of the $2,000 per issue opportunity for anyone in the company to turn around a negative experience. So from a service recovery perspective, if I have a disgruntled customer, a disgruntled guest that's upset about some— maybe the food they've had, something went wrong in their room, could be something that another guest caused— there is the ability for anyone from a housekeeper to the general manager in each of the hotels to be able to make the right steps to recover that employee up to $2,000. And I, you know, I've heard so many people I've told this to, like, oh my gosh, you must have given away the farm. I mean, I can only imagine. But when you trust your employees to that extent, to allow them and give them that empowerment to make things right for your guests, they treat it as if it's their own money. And yes, there were times when unintentionally I might not give the right remuneration for the, for the issue that happened. But that was okay. That would be followed by a very positive discussion from a manager to say, hey, awesome job. What's another way or other ways that potentially we could have resolved this issue? But, you know, that's one of the things When you have that much, when you know that you've been granted that much influence to make things right, the organization takes that very seriously and people want to do the right thing on behalf of the, not just the guests, but on behalf of the company too.

How much should they take advantage of that $2,000? Not take advantage, how much should they actually do that? Yeah. Or does it happen? You mentioned they treat it as if it's their own money.

Yeah, I would say this, Louis, in the 5+ years that I was at Ritz-Carlton, you know, I can remember that full $2,000 being used way less than a handful, maybe once or twice. And for those couple of ones, you know, the rooms at Ritz-Carlton in many cases are depending on the level of suite or level of room that you're getting could be upwards of $1,000, $1,200, $1,500 a night. But beyond the rooms and comping a room, it's very, very rare. And again, it's not just saying, hey, I'm anointing you, you are empowered. It's also just like our values. It's demonstrating what does that look like? What does that look like when we've got someone that's upset their steak was overcooked? That would be very different than I check into my room and, you know, God forbid there's insects or something in the room. So it needs to fit the issue. But it was just like with everything at Ritz-Carlton. It was, it was about training our folks to make those right decisions based upon our core values.

You think about it in a business mindset, that $2,000 is risk management.

Absolutely.

You know, legally, uh, we should— so many reasons for risk management. So I can see that at a top level, we just had a serious incident. Do I just forget about it, let it happen, let them leave and write about it? Or do I work on it actively and kind of have the $2,000 in the back of my head and at the same time know I'm going to really do an outstanding job of this because it's now really my money, right? My company.

That's right. That's right. And I was just going to say, you know, research would tell us that when issues do happen, and everybody's human, right? There will be service breakdowns no matter what organization you're in. They will happen. But if you are able to resolve that in an appropriate and timely manner, Patients, guests, customers, they will, they will end up being more loyal than if nothing had ever happened before. So not that we ever want to go out and try to create problems, that's not the point, but when they do happen, we've got an amazing opportunity to create even more loyal customers or guests, patients, etc. And that's something that ChinMed recognizes as well as you got to burn the boats. When it comes to service, you know, to service recovery, we've got to get it right, and we've got to get it right in a timely fashion. That's how you build, uh, you know, patients that, that are delighted and become advocates on behalf of the organization.

Tell me more about burning the boat at ChenMed. Sounds like they, they don't have the 2 grand thing, do they?

We do not. We do not have that. We don't have a, a specific number But it is embedded into the psyche of the organization that, you know, we need to make sure that we're doing not just making them whole, but making them emotional whole too, not just physical.

Is it connected to performance management too, or is it leadership development, or is it just, it's understood, a cultural norm?

It's a little bit of both, I would say. For instance, we just rolled out a service recovery, a formal service recovery model within the organization that that really helps our folks who are already well-trained, but it actually is an easy kind of mnemonic reminder, an acronym that kind of, when they get in the heat of a difficult, challenging situation, it kind of walks them through it. But it is, it is part of performance management in that, you know, we're tracking those types of things through our survey processes and voice of patient initiatives. We have a really good feel for, you know, the depth and breadth of those types of service breakdowns, and it is built into, you know, your success in that area can absolutely have a monetary impact on, you know, your pay and your bonus, et cetera. So it is built into as part of patient loyalty. Our metrics for performance management.

Well, I always can hear a new mnemonic reminder. So who doesn't want another one? Yeah, I love them. So what is the CHENMED mnemonic?

Yeah, so it's HEART, which is probably pretty appropriate for our industry. It's all about, you know, recovering broken hearts. And, you know, that's about humility, empathy, you know, acknowledging or saying I'm sorry, recovery, and then the easiest thing you can do, which are in many ways powerful words, the last one, the T is thank you. You know, thank you for bringing this to my attention. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to make things right on your behalf. So that acronym is just an easy way for our folks to do what they already do, but it just gives it, an easier way to manage it in the heat of a moment.

What a great process, you know, especially, you know, sort of for feedback. You say, "What are you doing well? What can you do better?" Respond, "Thank you," right? And that, so that heart gives you that chance to really go through that process and for them to easily remember how to do it. Thank yous are so essential. Thank you for bringing to my attention, giving people the, the The acknowledgment and the permission. People need permission to bring things to their attention, which is a really cool thing. Thanks for sharing the heart. You know, the, we said, it says here, "Leadership development and coaching, exec coaching is a way to make this right." So someone just wrote that just there. So this is it. I mean, the leadership development, executive coaching. Is there a formalized executive coaching program there at ChenMed or leadership development?

Yes, we, and we have it based upon the area of the organization. So for our leaders, which we call dyads, so at every level in the organization, there is a clinical dyad that partners with an operational dyad. So that would be perhaps the, the lead physician or the head of a center physician that's matching up with a center director, and they are a partnership. So they, there are training programs, leadership programs in place for those two roles. And then as you move up within the organization at a regional role, at a divisional role, there are— we have our own university, it's called ChinMed University, and a big piece of that is all around leadership development. So we've got it in our centers and flowing up within our organization, and then we also have that for folks that are, that are, that are not directly serving our patients, but are obviously serving people that do serve them.

Outstanding. Well, you said it all. Thank you so much. It's good stuff, man. We, we learned so much from you today, Jamie. Thank you so much. And you check out Jamie's book. Jamie, tell us how we can buy your book.

Yes, you can. It's available on all of the, you know, the major, uh, internet providers. You can get it on Amazon, you get it on Barnes Noble. You can learn more about me and my book as well on my website, jamelutz.com. jamelutz.com.

jamelutz.com. It's J-A-M-E-Y-L-U-T-Z dot com. That's it. Outstanding. Outstanding. Thank you. There's a T in the heart. Thank you for joining and for talking with me today. Appreciate it. And then another LinkedIn Live Leadership with the day with Jamie Looch. Nice to see you, Jamie. Thanks for coming on.

My pleasure. And thank you for the great work that you're doing, Louis Carter. I love your show.