5 Keys to Develop Your Essential Leadership Skills

It was bad enough before the pandemic getting and retaining staff. But at least back then, people were staying in place mostly. But since the pandemic, with on-again and off-again restrictions, remote working, and the demands of employers forcing employees back into the office, forget about attracting people. We're at the point where we can't keep people. As a business leader, what are you to do? And that's what we're talking about today on Marc Haine Live. Welcome to today's show! This is where small business owners and entrepreneurs pick up core skill sets to help them create the jaw-dropping, show-stopping experience that their customers and employees deserve. I am your host, Service Expert and Master of Experiences Marc Haine. And I can't thank you enough for taking time to be with us here. Today, we will be talking about how business operators and managers can enhance their awareness of effective leadership in today's ever-changing workplace environment. Stay with us and you'll get a few tips and takeaways about how you can support your people personally and professionally while increasing job satisfaction and of course, employee retention. My one ask for this episode is that you please share this episode with somebody that you know who could use the information. Knowledge is power but only if we share it. In the 2021 State of the Global Workplace report, Gallup reported that the majority of full-time workers in the world are either watching the clock or actively opposing their employer. Gallup estimates this low engagement is costing the global economy over $8.1 trillion. The loss is seen in productivity, higher costs, and also in innovation and organizational change. Now, you might be saying, but Marc, I'm not responsible for the global economy, just my business. But would it surprise you to learn that 71% of North American respondents indicated that now is the best time to be looking for a new job. And that brings us to our Question of the Day. How have you and your leadership team changed over the last 2 years? What are you doing to retain your very best talent? I'd love for you to be part of this conversation. Why don't you go ahead and put a comment down responding to that question with the hashtag #ExperienceLeadership. I'd love for you to be part of this conversation for us to be able to see your ideas as well. To talk about with us what leaders and managers can do, I am thrilled to have the President of X5 Management, Mike Mack, joining us today. Mike is a sought-after leadership coach, consultant, trainer, and facilitator He is passionate about helping organizations increase their customer satisfaction, improve employee retention, and achieve profitable growth. He is the 2-time Amazon bestseller of Remarkable Service: How to Keep Your Doors Open and Relationships for Keeps: How to Build Powerful Relationships in Business and in Life. Mike is working on his 3rd book, Lunch with Leaders: How True Leaders Make a Happens, scheduled to be published in early 2023. Mike, welcome to the show! It's great to have you.

Marc, great to see you again. And thank you so much for the invitation. I'm really excited to have a conversation with you today.

Oh, I know it's going to be brilliant. Hey, before we get into today's topic, could you just tell everybody a little bit about how you serve your clients?

Yeah, with pleasure, Marc. So, delighted to say this is our 16th year of business at X5 Management. So, our lane of focus is training coaching and consulting. And, and our tagline is we align teams to achieve. So we always tell people we're in the people business. So obviously training has picked up in the last 6 to 9 months as we kind of came out of the doldrums of COVID and the restrictions that we had. Coaching, lots of that is one-to-one, be that executive or leadership or otherwise. And we're finding that more and more clients have an appetite and a focus on strategic planning and stakeholder engagement right now as well. So those have been the areas that we've Had a very busy spring and summer on so far. And we anticipate a strong fall. But again, as we're going to talk about today, it's all about the people. And that is the business that we're in at X5 Management.

Wonderful! And so, this idea on this topic of leadership and effective leadership, why do you think it is so timely today?

Well, I think it's always been an important aspect. And we talk in the past, past quotes of, you know, we manage things, we lead people. And one of the comments that my team and I discussed around Christmas time in 2021, you know, we believe that 2022 is going to be the year of people. And the best way to develop those people, to retain those people, to recruit those people, obviously, is through effective leadership. Whether you're an owner, you're a manager, or you're an executive, your team relies on you to help them to the next level. And And if you're not able to do that, sadly, the opportunities exist that they're able to go find that job of choice out there. And sometimes, that might be a bit short-sighted. But a lot of cases, it's attributed to that leadership as well. And yes, money plays a factor. But the leadership of caring about individuals and connecting with individuals just matters so much. And honestly, Marc, part of the big reason I've done this as long as I have, it's just a real passion for that is we do want to align teams to achieve. And that has to be from the front line to the leadership level as well. So, it's paramount more than ever. You know, our teams have been locked up at home over the last couple of years. And while that was okay for some businesses, it really had that impact on that connecting and building relationships and better understanding how we can help people. And you lose that interaction that most organizations enjoyed pre-COVID. on the daily basis interaction, be it on the shop floor or in the boardroom.

Yeah, it really did challenge. I think it really challenged leaders on kind of picking up new skills very, very quickly. When you see like, we hear a lot about ineffective habits. Leaders seem to be kind of swaying a little bit. What are you seeing as some of the bad practices out there? that you think are hurting people?

I think there's a few things is that we don't pay enough attention to it, number one. Maybe that's a bit Captain Obvious, Marc. But I think that, well, the people are back now, so we're good. Well, not necessarily. Things are different. So, re-engaging with people. And if you and I worked together actively a few years ago, things are different. Things are different for you personally and professionally. We need to make that reconnection. So, not so much a bad habit. It's just they may not know any different going, well, business is good. I mean, fortunately, activity, at least in our region of Alberta right now, is relatively strong compared to where it was a few years ago. And we have head down and tail up, so to speak, where we're focusing on the business and making revenue and taking care of the customer, which is incredibly important. But we can never lose sight of putting our people ahead of all of that as well, taking the time and It might seem tedious, but they need to do that. And, you know, some items that we'll talk in perhaps more in our interaction today. One of the simple things that I talk about a lot to leaders is allocate that one-to-one time. Make sure that you commit to it, whether it's biweekly or otherwise, even if it's 30 minutes. Have that dialogue and leave nothing to chance. So, that's so incredibly important. So, those are some of the basic things. Maybe a habit that I'll reference is that When things get really busy, as many leaders are right now, they have a tendency to— if they're going to decline a meeting or cancel a meeting, it's that one. It's with Sally in accounting. We cancel that meeting versus something else. That could be a big, big mistake long-term. Sally doesn't feel she's important to you relative to something else that you need to do as well. So, those are a couple items that really come to mind. Putting the effort makes such a difference.

It really is. It really is like escalating the priority of our people, I think, in our task list, I think, as we move forward. Are there any myths about coming into this new era? And I call it the almost post-COVID. We know it's not over yet. But we do know that the restrictions have been lifted. Leaders are getting back into the office with their charges and with their people around them in some cases. They have forced their people to come back into the office. When it comes down to people's or leadership's idea around what this new era is going to be, are there any myths that you think need to be busted in order for people to be able to move forward as effective leaders?

Yeah, I love that question. I think there's a couple items that come to mind. Things aren't the way they were in early 2020. They're not and arguably are never going to be the same. So, that myth is, well, hey, we'll get back to normal. We'll get everybody back in. And there's that— we talk about the hybrid model. Some employees like the blend. Some want to be back and interactive. Some are happy on the virtual side on the condition that they're productive. So, I think the fact that it's different. So, if you were going to innovate and reinvent your organization, what would that need to look like? So, even if people can work at home or work from home for a couple days a week, need to still have that interaction. I've seen it work fairly well where some organizations have everybody back. Some, there is a bit of a hybrid. But I think understanding, we'll call it the guiding principles on both parties, the company, the organization, and the individual. Obviously, they get paid to fulfill a role, a job. So, as long as certain positions are able to fulfill that, they can work remotely. Maybe that's the win-win. Maybe even have better success retaining people long-term. One of the things that I really observed early in 2020 relative to coaching leaders and so on, I really had a great appreciation and admiration for the younger families that, say, had children that were preschool age or even in elementary school for that matter. The juggling of that was just so incredibly demanding. So now, if somebody has a sniffle or a cough, well, we got to worry that they may have COVID so that You've got to work from home anyway. So, offering that flexibility and childcare isn't an issue becomes really helpful. So again, back to the myth, I think we need to open it up and say, hey, what does our organization need to look like in the future that will be better for our clients, be better from a culture perspective, and ideally retain more people that value what they do for our organization? And make that one of the top agenda items all the time. That's how I look at it. It's a key priority. And Don't stop doing that in 2023 either. I think continuing that's going to be critical.

Yeah. And as you were saying that, I kept going in my mind. I kept thinking about this idea of work-life balance. But now, we're in an era of work-life integration. So, how much more of that is in the play with the people that you're working with and the people that you're coaching now?

Well, it does vary. And again, from industry to industry, it definitely matters. So, if You know, I always like to give a plug to a longtime valued client, Stahl Peterbilt. Well, the reality is, if you're a service tech and you're working on a large Peterbilt truck, you can't do that remotely. Obviously, you've got to be physically in the shop to be able to do that. So, roles like that are really critical. I think other areas around finance or accounting or even customer service, etc., I think there can be that arrangement. We've got to look at the organization holistically. I think that's a bit of a catch-22 for leaders right now. And in the past, simply because, well, Marc, if I'm going to make you happy, that's great. But that may not make Selly, as I referenced earlier, happy because she's looking for something different. So, can we have that hybrid, as you said earlier, integration? I think that's important. Can we have the best of both worlds where we both feel, or all parties are feeling, that they're fairly treated, that this is good for me? Because I think from a business perspective, and I worked from home and grew our business through COVID over the last few years where I was pretty productive. My wife worked from home as well. And you could argue that that was pretty effective. Definitely low clicks on the vehicle in 2020 and 2021, but we weren't less productive. So, I think it goes back to trust. Well, Marc, if you're at home all day, you probably aren't going to work as productively as you were at the office. In contrast, it actually could be the opposite relative to productivity for sure.

Yeah, what's interesting is the increased flexibility that people had by working from home because then, your 9-to-5 job might not be 9-to-5. Maybe it's getting the kids off to school and getting stuff started and doing the breakfast dishes before you start work at 11. But then, you work until after supper and that sort of thing. But there's also— there were some inherent issues around how many hours people worked. I think we saw an average. I think they said the The average was about 4 hours a week more time spent working when people were remote, which was a little scary.

Yeah, for sure. And I found that myself where you had a bit of Zoom fatigue over time. I love what I do. But when I think back of say, 2020 for example, I mean, I was probably averaging 30 hours a week on Zoom. And a lot of that was back-to-back. So, just by convenience, if you stopped at the bottom of the hour or at the top of the hour with a client and you're back-to-back, It was almost more intense than driving to and from a meeting, notwithstanding our winter elements here. So, that's something to really keep in mind. And I think the other aspect, as we'll get into hopefully later on, we'll talk about even someone's own development plan. Well, if they have the ability to be highly effective there, they might even be able to add value, greater value to the organization if they can do that. Right. It's a creative side. Maybe take tips and tricks from other organizations that have been successful. Some of the big players that we hear of what they're doing— I know my wife just joined a large 3D printing company based out of Boston, and a lot of their workforce on a global basis has home offices. My wife does travel, but that really is the model fundamentally, and that can be pretty effective. At the end of the day, you're measured on results. KPIs, etc. So, that's what matters. But the job satisfaction matters a great deal too, even more arguably today.

Yeah, absolutely. It's so interesting because the mentality is changing. And I think you hit the nail on the head when you said this. Sometimes, I think where we have grown a lot is the need for us to be able to trust, which is interesting. I'd like to take a deeper dive into how we can all elevate our leadership skills. And we'll talk about that right after this.

When the spotlight shines on your business, are customers applauding or yawning? In other words, how is your business performing? Make your business a star with a new book, Lights! Camera! Action!, Business Operational Excellence Through the Lens of Live Theater by Marc Haine. Marc uses his business and acting experience to help you see your business like a live show so you can create a performance your customers will never forget. Buy Lights! Camera! Action! today at your favorite online retailer or directly at marchaine.com.

Welcome back! I am speaking with Mike Mack, President of X5 Management. Mike, one of the aspects you alluded to a little bit when it came down to this idea of doing the one-on-ones. But this idea of communication, most leaders I talk to say that they have great communication. Where might they be dropping the ball?

Well, I love that conversation because I spend a lot of time in the communication lane. I think a couple items that come to mind is, and I'm a big fan of John C. Maxwell as an author. And he writes a lot of great books on leadership. And one of my favorites back, it's probably 10, 12 years old now. But Everyone Communicates, Few Connect. So, I think number one, Obviously, if we're having a conversation like we are right now, there's a listening component that needs to occur. And intently listening to what the other individual is saying and to be present. That's the other aspect. That distraction of texting or someone walking at the door. But right now, if we're spending the next 30 minutes one-to-one, all hands on deck and I'm focused on you, my valued employee. So, that's one for sure. And then, connecting is really just better understanding what makes that individual tick. From a coaching perspective, I have the privilege of finding out a lot of things about individuals that they tell me that I don't ask for. But in more times than not, we have the ability to help them because they're vulnerable with us and they're open in terms of how they're looking for additional support. Sometimes, it's not throwing them at a lot of money. It's just that added value of someone caring about their own professional development plan. I indicated it earlier. The other aspect that they're a little light on is just committing to that time. So again, if it's structured, honor that time. And it doesn't have to be long. If it's 30 minutes every few weeks or even once a month, but you have an open-door policy, that can really win the day in that regard. If you have any concerns, Marc, don't hesitate to reach out. I'd love to help you or support you. That little gesture. But then, fulfilling that when they actually do come to you and go, sorry, I'm too busy now. Come back next week. That you can get away with that maybe once or twice. But you can't get away with that on a weekly, monthly, quarterly basis as well. So, those are the items that come to mind to be present. Make it all about them really, not about you relative to what they want support and help with.

Yes, it's so interesting. And again, as we're talking about this thing about keeping your promise, I love Stephen Covey's trust bank account metaphor of how we build trust and how we subtract from our trust bank account. And sometimes, if we go too far down, then we break that trust and we become overdrawn. And then, we struggle then to get it back up.

Indeed.

There's a lot to being an effective leader. And obviously, in a short podcast like this, we can only just basically skim the surface. But Is there anything like when we talk about effective leadership skills, could you give us a brief rundown of what some of those habits that are required in order to be effective might look like?

You bet. Well, I'll reiterate again the one-to-one time and keeping it simple. Jotting notes down as people are talking, not just listening. Listening is important obviously. But maybe you're taking some notes down. Maybe they need something. They need authorization for something. We use a work of leaders tool, Marc. So, we talk a lot about vision, alignment, and execution. So, from a leadership perspective, articulating the vision, and it doesn't have to be at the big corporate level always, but the vision for the region, the branch, the office, whatever the case may be of what we're trying to accomplish. And it's not just financial. It needs to be a lot of things relative to customer service, improving culture. Aligning that goes with that vision alignment and execution really pertains to How we are articulating and how do we get commitment and buy-in from the team relative to what they need. So, some great leaders with big vision ideas aren't always great at aligning the team, which does involve a lot of listening, collaboration, and so on. And then finally, on the execution side, we got to trust our team that they're going to be able to execute on the plan at hand. And if they have the tools necessary to be able to do that. You just support that. You don't micromanage it. You support it. So, I think that's critically important. The other simple one, and these have been used before, but engage and empower your team. So, relative to that, simply by asking, Marc, how could you help us with this? Oh, I've got an idea. And I've seen lots of these examples, Marc, where someone working in the back shop corner had the ability to build out a procedures manual Only because he goes, well, I could do that. No one ever knew that that person could do that. So now, you got them engaged. They're empowered to build this from scratch. And surprisingly, the outcome of this particular example was brilliant because no one within that department could have done it half as good as that individual. But he was really a hidden wonder, if you will, on that. I think the other aspect that we touched on earlier is professional development. But by offering it, And it's not always paid courses. It can be. But again, some people are looking for coaching as evidenced by what we do professionally. People appreciate that and say, wow, we've never had a coach before, let alone their manager before. I think back when I was a young man way back in my early 20s when I had one of my favorite managers at the time, Terry, and he was offering professional development back then. It was like, Mike, I think we're going to challenge you with this. I think this will serve you well in the career. I want to give you that opportunity, put you in that seat. So, I always appreciated that challenge because there was a belief that someone else saw that I could do that, which is wonderful.

And we have to be prepared that when we do it, we're testing capacity as well. So, we have to also be open to the fact that as we test people in new projects, new roles, and that sort of thing, that failure might become one of the big learning points as they move forward.

I agree. I think the other one I just want to close out on is, you know, leave nothing to chance. That kind of summarizes everything, Marc, is that, you know, never assume that Marc or Sally, as I've talked about before, are good if they're not talking to us.

Right.

So that's why we need to take the initiative to check in versus, well, Marc, you got any issues, let me know. But I haven't heard from Marc for 6 months. I assume Marc is happy. Probably on the contrary. So, be proactive. Be the leader. Take the initiative to do it if you haven't heard from someone for a while. And that structure and regularity of meeting one-to-one prevents that from happening. If you go on a vacation, schedule out when you're coming back who you're going to meet so it's actually carved in the calendar and you commit to it as well.

Yeah, yeah. And so really, it's about giving people the respect and making people as important to to you as the job is or as important as that individual is to the organization. This past week, I was talking with a client about the importance of going from transactional leadership to relational leadership. What does that mean to you?

I love it. In fact, one of my colleagues, Brent Collingwood, I'll give him a plug. He referenced that a lot. We're in the transformation business where, unlike going to get a Starbucks as a transaction and here it is, but that relationship— of course, I wrote a book on relationships, so I'm a big fan of that. And kind of my theory is ability to like, respect, and trust. Well, it's an ongoing process. It's not one and done from a transaction perspective. So, understanding that other individual, when you think about, hey, why does Marc think that way? Well, over time, hopefully, we learned that, that that was a passion for him when he was a young man. And I didn't understand why that project was so important to him. But that's where that matters a great deal. And that going out and waving like the queen, if you will, relative to your people versus sometimes breaking bread together. Some organizations that we have the privilege of working with do a really great job on that social aspect from a team perspective, be it barbecues or otherwise, or—

Yeah.

Hosting events or in the Edmonton market, being a big fan of the Oilers in the playoff run. They were doing things and allowing people to dress up and do what they needed to do. But there was that additional connection to really understand. And then, on the other side of that, that underlying factor that's a reality is that if people are struggling, be it financially or health issues, or maybe a parent is ill or terminal with a condition, I've seen that happen over the last few years. We need to be understanding of that. And if we don't have a relationship with our team, we're not going to know that. And they might even be apprehensive to bring that up in some cases. Fortunately, I don't see that a lot. They're more open to be able to do that because they're simply not themselves if a parent is going to pass away. And that's a big, big distraction relative to them performing at their very best. And we need to understand that and make it about them for that period of time and give them that period to to support them from a family perspective because it matters a great deal.

Yeah, how would you recommend because you mentioned that for the employees. But sometimes, that happens with the leaders themselves, especially we have a lot of sandwich generation people who still have kids at home. But now, they're taking care of parents where the leaders themselves might be challenged with it. How do they still bring their best when they themselves might be challenged professionally? And personally.

Yeah, I love it. I mean, there's 3 areas. Obviously, the one that we're grateful that, that we're able to coach a number of leaders in our organization. So not everybody does that. Nobody has a budget to do that. And I understand that. So obviously, if you can get coaching support, that helps. I mean, somebody asked me this the other day. It was a prospective client about, you know, are you a life coach or a business coach? And I said, well, from an X5 perspective, we're business coaches. But rest assured, When we talk to an executive, for example, we're talking about life every day because life is part of that, be it an ailing spouse or dealing with a family situation, whether it's family business or otherwise. So, I think that's part of it. Number 2, a lot of great leaders in our market for sure are involved in other associations. So, that could be anywhere from Edmonton Executive to Synergy Network to Tech or EO. So, they have that forum or that cohort that they have that trusted relationship with that they can lean on someone that understands what they're going through. Depending upon the relative age of that leader, I'm a big fan of mentorship as well. So, in that regard, you could be 50 years of age and have a mentor that have been there, done that in that regard. And again, that's free if you find that right mentor. So, think of that as a a sounding board situation when you're dealing with something that potentially is pretty catastrophic relative to the current state of their family situation or a financial challenge or otherwise. And you need someone to turn to. And not for our dialogue today, but that starts to branch into things like mental health.

Yeah.

And that silent voice isn't ideal. We need to be able to talk to someone and get that outside support. If it's very serious. And in many cases, it is. So, as we both know, I look at emotional intelligence. Some people do a better job of handling day-to-day stress. And is it healthy stress or is it bad stress relative to how that impacts them? And if that's sustained long enough, that can really, really have a negative impact on them as an individual, their health, and of course, their ability to be highly effective from a leadership perspective.

Sure. And of course, we'll have the trickle-down effect on the whole team because it's all about how you're managing that stress. I'd love to get into some cautionaries about leading in today's new era. And we'll get to that right after this.

When you're delivering an important speech to a huge audience, it's easy to lose your place or go way over time. Give yourself an advantage with the Pro Speaker Presentation Speech No more checking your watch or calling for time. The Pro Speaker Presentation Speech Timer app keeps you on track with easy-to-see timers, even changing color for visual prompts during your speech. And you can set audio cues to practice or set it to vibrate so you don't even have to look. Be the pro you know you are. Download the app at speakerpresentationtimer.com.

Welcome back! As you can tell, Mike and I are passionate about helping entrepreneurs and business managers just like you. If you belong to an industry association, just like Mike had alluded to how powerful associations can be when we need peers to be able to talk to, or that you belong to an organization that is planning a conference or a leadership retreat and you feel we could be of service, please feel free to drop us a line or do a connection request. Our details are in the show notes. Mike, you will be launching a new book next year. Why don't you tell us a little bit about that?

Well, thank you, Marc. Privileged that that is my third book in the last 5+ years. This has really become a passion project. I started The Brain Wave back probably about October of 2021. Lunch with leaders, as you alluded to at the start of the program today, Marc. I had the privilege of working with a lot of great leaders. So, what I decided to do, and it's ironic because I had very good uptake on that, and some of them are clients but not all of them are. And while many of them are entrepreneurs, not all of them are entrepreneurs either. And I really wanted to sit down and have a conversation. And I'll give you a little sneak peek in it because it'll be in my introduction. Years ago, and I'm going to say this is 10 to 12 years ago, one of my favorite books at the time was Never Eat Alone by Keith Ferrazzi. And as you know, Marc, I'm a relationship guy and blessed to have a pretty good network, at least in the Edmonton marketplace. But I often thought in my early stages of my career, if I could sit down and have a lunch, if you will, never eat alone, with leaders and learn what they have done, been there, done that, if you will, what would that be like? So, fast forward, that's really been the journey. So, at this point in time, we have 14 individuals that are going to be in the book. It's going to be a pretty robust book, Marc, relative to that. I'm sending it off to the publisher here, August 1st, 2022. And in that regard, a couple items that are a bit of a theme so far. When you look at the struggles of how they started or how they took over a business from an ailing parent or otherwise, we've heard it all. Those lessons are really so applicable today. So, I'm really excited because for your audience and our client base, this particular book is going to be specific. And I'm proud to say, I feel it's going to be a great book, but largely attributed to the amazing stories and contributions from the people that I've interviewed throughout the last 6, 7 months. So, really excited about it.

I think it's going to be brilliant. Just the thought of the premise alone. I joke about that. I believe that most people in business and who have their own businesses became incidental entrepreneurs. That they had a great idea. They were in the middle of something. They decided today is the day I'm going to start my own business. Whether that's opening up a restaurant, a retail environment, whatever the business is. And what's interesting about that was they were never ever trained to be leaders. They were never trained in HR. They were never trained in marketing. And so, anything that they did, they had to learn on the fly, which like you said, is pretty applicable to what we're seeing today.

Indeed. And not to let the cat out of the bag relative to some of the stories. But a young entrepreneur taking over his parents' company when they both passed away within 8 months of cancer at 27 years of age. And that business is thriving today. To someone that struggled in elementary school and thought they were— they had learning challenges that became really an advanced individual that accelerated from a leadership perspective. And it just personally warms my heart when I have the privilege of reading those chapters. And it genuinely is a privilege. While it's a lot of work, I'm genuinely so excited because my number one goal honestly is to make these great leaders and their stories really shine through in the pages when we have the opportunity to read it. So, grateful for their participation but even more excited to share their words with the readers that hopefully will take the time to check out the book when it comes out in the new year.

Yeah. And I think books like these, I think they're really integral. They need to be in our libraries because All too often, we feel like we're alone. And when you pick up a book like that and you realize the struggle other people have had, you realize, hey, I'm actually not alone. Other people have done this. Other people have overcome something similar. So, I think it's— I'm looking forward to that release.

Well, I'll reference a comment. I was at a meeting a couple weeks ago and a young leader had asked me, Mike, if you could go back and speak to your younger self when you were 20, What advice would you give yourself? And it's a pretty consistent message. Surround yourself with great people and build relationships. So, if you fast forward and you're a leader today, there's a lot of leaders out there that have been there, done that, that we could lean on. And I know in our market, just a bias of where we live in Alberta, Marc, and Edmonton specifically, that there's so many people out there that are willing to help people like you and I and other leaders as well. And always the first piece, this comes from Jack Canfield. Ask, ask, ask. So, always be clear on what you want to ask. But more times than not, when I've asked for insight or advice, most people have not said no. They've offered to give that particular insight of wisdom. They've been there, done that, if you will. So, don't be afraid to do that. Don't stalk them and bother them a ton of times. But to do that with respect and go, wow, thank you for that wisdom, Marc. and be grateful for that. That can help accelerate your leadership journey, if you will, as well.

Yeah, yeah. Brilliant, brilliant. I look forward to it. And then, I will make a commitment that once it's released, Mike, as long as you let me know, I will put the link in the show notes. So, anybody watching the replay will make sure that they have quick access to the book. We're talking about effective leadership. We're talking about some things that go on. I'm a baby boomer and I was I was privileged, not so much privileged, to be in the workforce in the late '70s where it was carrot and sticking time. And dealing with leaders now who are still kind of on that aging part of it, the people who might be 10 or 12 years older than me still have a mindset that needs to be shaken up. If people are saying, yeah, you know what? I'm seeing that now I'm struggling more than ever in trying to get people to come on board. I'm struggling with trying to keep people. I don't know why they're leaving me now. What cautionaries as people are reviewing this episode and they're saying, yeah, maybe I could do this better. Maybe I could do this better. What cautionaries would you have for them as they try to initiate the change?

Well, a couple items come to mind. I'm a fan of less is more and the little things can make all the difference. So, if you lay out, let's say you work on a plan or a strategic plan and operationalize it, those strategic priorities don't need to be long. They could be 3 to of them that you're going to do. So, if we talk about people and leadership, when we talk about culture, I think there's a couple items. Some organizations that we work with do employee engagement surveys, for example. Getting that information to find out what makes your people tick, doing that. It's even better if you and your team can talk to those individuals one-to-one. But if you get insight and say, this is an area in our business that we can improve upon, in a perfect world, take the initiative to improve that rather than wait for next year's survey and they ask for the exact same thing. So, I think again, less is more. If you can identify 2 or 3 small changes and commit to it, whatever that may be. There are organizations that we work with for a long period of time that invest in their people and training and the coaching side, for example. They literally put their money and time where their mouth is as well. And not everybody has a budget to do that. And I respect that. So, if you can elevate your leadership team in the organization and they can commit to be better leaders, let's say you've got a team of 50 or 100 people. Well, you get that really enhanced effect with consistency and alignment as well so that we're operating on the same page. So again, Cautionary, but less is more. You don't have to paint the whole building. You can just paint one room at a time sometimes just to brighten up what needs to be done. And there's— I'll make a side reference. And while this is customer service related, there's that hospitality video that's on YouTube that you probably have seen with Danny Meyer that was produced by Lexus and hospitality about a restaurant in New York. I love that particular video because It really puts the people first. So, if you can do that, number one, you're going to enhance your culture. And number two, you're going to add greater value to your clients at the same time if you put your people first. Customer service is incredibly important. No question about it. But you can't deliver that without people that are there or wanting to be there.

Yeah, I just published a blog talking about if we take the skills that we have for customer service and apply it to working with our teams, Some magical things might happen if we start looking, taking those skills that are so ingrained in us as customer service people and applying it to our teams. It's amazing what can happen. The idea of not being perfect in what we do. I know that for leaders, sometimes the lack of perfection might seem like a weakness.

Yeah, there's a couple views on that one, Marc. Thank you for mentioning that. Progress, not perfection. And I have a business coach. So, one of the things that I love about what he's referenced in the past is, here's the current reality. Here's the future reality. If we can articulate what we want that to look like, it's a process. You can't get from 0 to 60 in 5 minutes. Let's say that's going to take us a year or more. Those small incremental changes will make a difference. And be okay with not making it absolutely perfect because depending upon the style of that leader, if they can't do it perfect, they won't do it at all. Well, most people would appreciate that you did something rather than not doing it at all. Now, on the other side of that, my mentor who's 87 years of age and in Vancouver, Arnold, he'll always talk about practice much like a golf analogy of being a great golfer. Practice makes perfect. And he argues, well, perfect Practice makes perfect. So, in contrast to what I said earlier, if you want to be way better at something, a relative skill, in simple form, whether you don't have the budget for a course or a coach, read a great leadership book. And I can recommend many. A game changer for me, Marc, probably 20 years ago when I got into CDs and now, of course, Audible on my phone, it's just been a game changer because I'm able to go through so many amazing books that are out there in the marketplace. And the more you read and the more you listen, as you know, there's a common thread that will evolve in those messages and go, that sounds like a great idea. I think I should start doing that. So, I think that's the piece versus, well, no, I need to take a course at the University of Alberta. Well, you could. But you could read a book as well. I'm amazed. Now, I had lunch yesterday with a senior executive of someone that's 70 years of age. And I said, so how many books have you read in your lifetime? And he kind of looked up and he went, probably 500. And you can do the math on that on an annualized basis. That's a lot of books. I could talk to someone else in leadership and they, hey, what's the last leadership book you read in the last year? They couldn't think of one. So, there's a range from 500 to zero. So, be willing to learn. Again, don't worry about the perfection, but it's the progress. Did I elevate? And hey, what's the best book? What's the great leadership system? There's a lot of great systems and great books out there. Just grab one. I do have to give a plug to this one, and I don't get any credit for it. But John C. Maxwell's 5 Levels of Leadership is one of my favorite go-to books because it's simple. And if you only looked at the illustration of A Level 1 leader, people follow you because they have to because you're the manager or the boss. We want to elevate to that beyond. And I always say I aspire to be a Level 4. I got to be a lot older, Marc, to be a Level 5 leader with wisdom and sage like the Warren Buffetts of the world. Level 4 very simply is people follow you because of what you've done for them.

Yes.

And that's a whole big list from listening to professional development, to supporting them when their mom passed away, whatever that may be. That's Level 4 Leadership. So, simple fundamentals. But you've got to live it and breathe it every single day.

Yes. And it's funny because the word intentionality comes through. But then, so does the word humility. You have to have the humility to know that you don't have all the answers. And then, you have to be intentional about how are you going to overcome that. once you recognize it.

I love that. I'm smiling because I can relate to that language so well. And even if I go back to my book for a second, Marc, that's one of the items that I was most grateful for. That humility just shone through on a consistent basis. And some brilliant leaders that would acknowledge they were the first to say, we didn't have all the answers. That's why we relied on other people and our employees or outside support or other leaders to give us guidance and input. Be open. Be open. We're always learning.

This has been absolutely amazing. Hey Mike, if people really connect with this, how can they get a hold of you if they want to pick your brain or explore working with you?

Well, thanks for the opportunity again, Marc. So obviously, our website is our main contact relative to www.x5management.com. As you indicated earlier, I'm a big fan of LinkedIn. So, Happy to have someone reach out. And in a perfect world, if they go, hey, I had the privilege of listening to Marc and you were a guest on Marc's show. LinkedIn is great from a connection perspective as well. We have access at info@x5management.com. And while I can feel those, I'm grateful that I have a team that helps support that as well, not just me as we continue to grow. But, you know, a side comment, probably like your business, Marc, people always say, well, what's your ideal client? Anyone that wants to improve their business and their people, what they're doing. And that's always a place to start. There's no one size, what does it look like? But rather, hey, we need to do some things different around here. Whether we're growing or retaining what we're doing or trying to protect the business, all of that becomes important. You can't turtle. Lots of businesses did that over the last couple of years. So, welcome the opportunity to have anybody reach out and And really, it boils down to that.

If we have a pain point, something that's making you lose sleep, then it's worth a conversation. At the very least, it's worth a conversation.

Oh, it is. It is. And I gotta give kudos to you, Marc, and for shows like this as well. I just admire the production of what you put together. And this, people should access this all the time, whether it's the show with me or other shows. Take advantage of that wealth of knowledge that exists out there in the market. That individuals like you, or me, or others out there, thousands of others that can support leaders and businesses to be better and to protect their business.

Brilliant! This has been so fantastic. Mike, do you have any last thoughts about what we've been talking about today?

I think at the end of the day, we go back to some of the basics. Leave nothing to chance. Build some relationships that you have whether You don't necessarily have to pay to be a member in a forum or otherwise, but make that— it's a common question I get a lot, Marc, is, hey, where should I go network? Start somewhere and build a meaningful relationship. I mean, that could be in the golf course. That could be on the pickleball court, whatever you're up to. That's really an important part. But surround yourself with some good people. And I find great leaders that have really elevated their level have a real strong strong supporting cast of people in their life, including their employees, family, spouse, people like you, people like me. So, build that relationship. If you think you have enough, you don't because that journey always continues. I always learn something from people that I meet for the first time as well. And again, Marc, just a real privilege to have the opportunity to be on your show and applaud what you do professionally in the marketplace. I know how much effort goes into a show like this. So, kudos to you for what you do.

I appreciate that, Mike, so much. And I thank you for sharing your passion and your brilliance with the audience today. I can't thank you enough. It's been fantastic.

My absolute pleasure.

Thank you. Why don't you let me know if this was of value to you? As always, my offer stands. If you would like 30 minutes of my time to brainstorm your business with you and your team, feel free to book yourself on my online calendar. The link is down below. It would be my absolute pleasure to be of service to you. And while you're at it, why don't you go ahead and leave a comment or a review about this episode? I'd love to get your feedback. Was this of value to you? Do you have any other interests? Anything that you think you'd need some help with that you'd like me to maybe to cover in a different show? Why don't you let me know? My name is Marc Haine. I hope you stay safe, stay healthy, and I hope you dare to be the exception. Thanks for joining me today.