Becoming a People-Centric Leader

As a business owner or a manager, you might be saying, what the H-E double hockey sticks is going on? If the pandemic wasn't disruptive enough, now we have a waft of other concerns, especially around how we manage human interactions. And that's what we're talking about today on Marc Haine Live. Thanks for joining me for this episode. This is where small business owners and entrepreneurs pick up core skill sets to help them create those jaw-dropping, show-stopping experiences that their customers and their employees deserve. I am your host, Service Expert and Master of Experiences Marc Haine. It is so great to have you here with me today. because I have a very special guest for this episode, emotional intelligence specialist Kristin Harcourt. We will be talking about what it takes for leaders to make their businesses more profitable by becoming more people-centric. And we'll get to that in just a moment. In the meantime, feel free to be part of this conversation. Why don't you go ahead and subscribe to this program if you haven't already done so? That'll give you notification when I bring you fresh new content. And while you're at it, if you know somebody who could benefit from the information we're providing today, why don't you go ahead and share this episode with them? A lot of conversations in the last year have centered around the needs of the people in our businesses. Issues like the Great Resignation, diversity and inclusion, mental well-being. The list goes on and on. And while those issues are happening, other issues like supply chain and inflation still permeate the newswire. Business issues keep coming to the forefront. But really, the business issues focused on people is still the number one challenge facing businesses today, which brings us to our Question of the Day. So, as a business operator, a manager, or entrepreneur, how have you adapted to the needs of your people in the last year? Go ahead and share your responses. You know what? We can learn so much by some of the things that you're doing. The people who follow this can learn from you if you want to share it. So, go ahead and share wherever you're sharing this on social media. And make sure that you use the hashtag #ExperienceLeadership so we can really follow the conversation along. As I mentioned, my guest today is the executive coach, keynote speaker, and emotional intelligence specialist Kristin Harcourt. In addition to being an in-demand speaker and facilitator, Kristin is also an accredited coach empowering leaders to become more aware of their strengths, blind spots, values, and their purpose so that they can build lives and organizations of success, sustainability, and health. Kristin loves to travel. She loves to do dance parties with her kids. She practices meditation and yoga. Very, very zen and kickboxing. She's also been known to jump out of planes for charity. Kristin, welcome to the show!

Oh, so good to be here, Marc. Thank you so much for that wonderful introduction.

Before we get into today's topic, could you dig a little bit deeper into what you do for your clients?

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for that great question. I would say the work that I do is really to help leaders pause, take a step back, and learn more about themselves, who they are, what they want, why they show up the way they show up, and how ultimately they can show up as the best versions of themselves in order to create more engaged workforces, more engaged And happier lives for themselves as well and the people around them.

So, do you specifically work with leaders specifically? Or do you work with like intact teams or management teams?

Yeah, I really work with both. So, it's working with individuals and helping them understand themselves better and what it looks like to show up with the best version of themselves when it comes to a lot of those things like emotional intelligence and communication. And then, if you think about The teams with a whole bunch of different humans working together with a lot of different operating systems and ways of seeing the world. It's really important for them to understand each other better so that they can better support one another. And also, give the opportunity for each of them to be in their zones of genius and understand what might work really well for one person might not work so well for another person and be really aware of that.

And it's really pretty cool because if you're starting with the top of an organization, A lot of those personal changes at the top will snowball down to the rest of the organization.

100%. My experience is if I can have a team at the top who really gets this and it's not just something that they're understanding on an intellectual level but something that they're really embodying, then they're out there constantly modeling that for the people around them. And also able to support when people are asking for resources to support other changes in the organization and cascade down to the other leaders as well. So, it's really, really important that they're living and breathing those values and those behaviors that they're wanting for others in the organization.

I love that. And I look forward to uncovering what this all means to our audience today. At the top of the show, I mentioned several people issues that are part of the business conversation right now. Things like the Great Resignation, diversity inclusion, mental well-being. Is this— do you think this is a new phenomenon?

So, I've been talking about humanizing the workplace and talking that language probably at least 10 years. It feels like even a little bit longer than that. And even the Great Resignation, I've been calling that the Great Awakening. And awakening on both levels. It's awakening for the individuals and them really recognizing what do they want. What kind of workplace do they want to be working for where they can really be set up to be successful and do their best work. But now, the organization is having to take a step back and take some ownership and responsibility for the ways that they perhaps are not creating that kind of environment. And top talent is saying, I'm not going to stay working in a workplace where some of these things are not happening. And so, it's allowing both the organization and the individual to take a step back and make some really profound changes.

So, why do you think it's all coming to a head now? Like, I mean, really, it really is. We're on the tip of this iceberg now where it's all rearing its ugly little head. So, why now? Why is the catalyst pushing it all forward now?

Yeah, it's a really important question. I think this has been in the works for a while and it's just kind of snowballed. There's these different intersections that are all coming together at the same time. So, if we start looking what was happening during the global pandemic. Of course, it was a big shakeup, right? A lot of people where they thought they had control recognized, oh, I really thought I had control and I recognized how much control I don't have. And so, that's a hard thing for a lot of people to work through. So, we had that happening and a lot of things that were really difficult that people were experiencing again on multiple levels. We have People losing jobs. We have individuals who are concerned about the health for themselves, for their families, for elderly people, for individuals who might be compromised from a health perspective. So that was going on. We have parents who have kids at home and they're trying to homeschool children. Like, everyone needs to get a gold medal for that one. As a mom of 2, I could tell you that is really difficult. And so, there was multiple things showing up from a mental well-being perspective. Then we start to think about what was happening in terms of diversity, equity, inclusion, and the systemic racism that has always been there. But we just saw all of these things that were coming to the forefront because people were at home and in front of televisions and it was getting their attention. And I think they were seeing things that previously it was easy to kind of not really look, really not put the attention there. So, that brought up a whole bunch of things. And then, I think underneath all of this, at the root of the organization, there has been really, and I use the language awakening. People have been asking questions. I saw as a coach and someone who's been working with leaders for almost 20 years. We can even look at generational when we started to see Millennials and then getting Gen Z coming into the workplace. They started to have different demands. They started to say, I want to feel joy. I want to feel purpose in my work. I want to have work-life integration. I want to have flexibility around where I work. And it's so interesting because so many leaders where I was having this conversation around remote work way before the pandemic, no, no, no, we can't do that. They're not going to get the work done. Like total lack of trust.

Yes.

It wasn't about they can't get the work done. So, all of that was happening all at once. And so, this is why I think it's created a big shake-up.

It's interesting because I have a philosophy that the true test of leadership is when things go horribly, horribly wrong. And COVID-19 was that test. It's like somebody put their foot, slammed their foot on the accelerator for all the problems organizations have and has just put everything under a magnifying glass.

Yes. I couldn't have said it better myself. It just amplified everything that was already there. It was there and it just huge, hugely amplified it. And I love what you said there as well because this has been a moment that has also created more connection because some leaders, this is the opportunity where they showed up and they asked questions and they supported their people. And they were vulnerable and shared what's going on in their world. And people got got to get into people's homes, right? We're all on these Zooms. They're seeing people's kids, where they live, their hobbies. And so in some ways, it actually did create this level of connection and bringing your whole self to work, which I have been promoting for a long time as well. But it was easier for people to have like, this is my at-home persona. This is my at-work persona. Those 2 roles, those 2 identities really merged. And so For some people, I've heard amazing feedback around how they were in so much admiration and had so much respect and were inspired by their leaders and how they chose to show up at this time with everything that was going on.

I think at the same token too, that also personified the employees. It also made the employees into people with lives outside of the corporate structure or their business structure.

Yeah. I think it created a level of connection, right? So, sometimes people even understood like they could see similarities in each and one another that perhaps they didn't see before, right? So, we have 2 people, very different lives, but they both have older parents that they're concerned about. Now, all of a sudden, there's that connection because they're experiencing it. Somebody else who might have not talked a lot about their kids. I mean, I have a lot of leaders who don't even go to work and don't really talk about their children and their life outside of work. Now all of a sudden they're sharing that and they're commiserating and saying this, sharing the struggles and what that might— must be like. And from a mental well-being perspective, there has been a lot more discussions around, you know, what's going on and feeling our feelings and the dualities of our experience. While we can have gratitude on one hand that be alive, there's gratitude that comes along with that. Yet at the same time, mentally, physically, emotionally exhausted and be feeling really sad and suffering. And you can be experiencing both of those together. So, I think from a humanity perspective, we started to connect to our shared humanity.

It's really interesting because I entered the workforce when I was 16 years old back in 1977. And the workplace was entirely different. Like you went to work and the management philosophy was, if I want your ideas, I tell you what they are, right? If I ask you to do something, I don't want you to ask why. I want you to say, ask me how high, right? This whole philosophy of control, control, control. And you even mentioned it, this transition even prior to COVID where it's like, why don't you let people? Oh, because I don't trust them to do the work. All that is still that mentality of that pre-COVID line of thinking. As we move forward now, as businesses are starting to adjust to hybrid workplaces, or remote workplaces, or in-person workplaces, what do you think the future is going to be holding now for the demands of the leader?

Yeah, such a— it's a really good point. I think so what people are recognizing is the old-school philosophy of command and control, where we start to think in the Industrial Revolution where people used to work on a line. And what what that looked like in terms of you had to tell people what to do. It doesn't work anymore. And so, this new version of leadership really has to be something that's more not a one-size-fits-all but more around adapting, adapting to the workplace and understanding you have a lot of different individuals with different needs, different motivations. And really spending the time as a leader having more conversations Tapping into more curiosity, spending a lot of time listening through asking those questions, recognizing that your job as a leader is not to have all the answers. Your people can give you answers that you don't know. You're not in their world. And so, it's not— and hey, I'm taking some heaviness off of your shoulders because I see a lot of leaders who feel like their role and responsibility is to have all the answers. No, you need to go out there and ask the questions and hear what's your workforce telling you. What do they need more of? What do they need less of? What's working really well for them? What's not working very well for them? And that's where you start to make changes. And of course, you're not making all of the changes at once. But make sure that your people are knowing that you're paying attention and listening to what they're saying and being transparent and having that open communication. And guess what? That's where you start to build a lot of trust. and engagement and loyalty. People want to work for organizations with leaders that are coming from that place.

Yeah, it's interesting. What you've just painted is kind of this ideal situation with this leader being highly present in their workplaces, taking the time to actually talk to their staff and talk to their employees and find out what are their needs and so on. If you were to rate The business world today, how do you think leaders are faring?

Marc, it's not a good picture. I would say that there is what's different and where I have seen a shift is there is a wanting and a knowing that showing up more coach-like would be effective. Where the disconnect is, is I don't think they know how to do it. They just think, well, I get it. I could see how that would be valuable. But they're still doing what they've seen. So perhaps, when they think about the leaders that they reported into, they were more micromanaged. They didn't have leaders who coached and asked questions. So, I think where the disconnect is a little bit of confusion around what it looks like to do that. And then, the other thing that I think is getting in the way of leaders. So, if I was going to give a rating, I'm going to give them a number. I would say 4 out of 10, 5 out of 10. is what I'm seeing if I just holistically. Certain organizations, of course, there's lots of training is being provided. So, their learning curve is better and I would rate them higher. But the other thing that I think is getting in so many leaders' way is they are, they have busy, they have busy jobs with a lot of demands. They're trying to do, do, do. They're in action, trying to do all of these business outcomes. And they're not creating time and space for the coaching piece. Here is what I'm going to tell you. I know this is going to feel counterintuitive that there's just no time. But if you actually proactively make the time for the coaching conversations down the road, it is going to take away so much of the additional time that you have to spend in the business because communication breakdowns, because you're not all working together as a high-performing team. You're not getting things done as effectively. And so, I know that the leaders that are listening, some are going to say, Kristin, if you saw my calendar, I'm in back-to-back meetings. And so, the first thing I'm going to ask you is, why are you in back-to-back meetings? Should you be in back-to-back meetings? Show me the white space on your calendar. There's no white space on your calendar. You need to have white space on your calendar to be doing some of this stuff, asking yourself around. The big questions in terms of strategy, in terms of creativity, in terms of coaching conversations with your people. When this happens, everything else runs so much way, way, way more smoothly.

Yeah, it's interesting because it is now what you're talking about is looking at one's job description essentially and beginning really proactive in prioritizing coaching and mentoring Before all the busy work stuff.

Yes, yes.

Right? And like you said, it's counterintuitive because to a leader, it's like, boy, if I sit down, I have— if this idea of coaching and mentorship in the hierarchy of our organization is I'm responsible now for all these division managers. So, I'm going to have to make time to sit and coach and mentor with them. And then, I'm going to expect that they're going to do the same thing in their teams. Well, it's like we're not going to get anything done. And it's— but yet, it's like you said, it's absolutely counterintuitive because once you do it, it's like, oh my goodness! I can take my foot off the brake. And we're on the energy level of the organization is on cruise control.

Yes, yes, yes, right? And this is where I think self-reflection is so important is because if you're not taking yourself as a leader, if you're not taking a step back to ask yourself those questions, Is this the most effective use of my time? And I mean, meetings is one that we could do a whole podcast episode just on that because there are so many meetings that should not be meetings. Email communication, while it's great, it has lots of ways that is not being used effectively at all that is actually spending hours in people's days not effectively. And also what happens a lot with leaders is what gets perceived as an emergency is where they're spending their time. Yet, it's not actually an emergency. Their thought process, it feels like, well, that person's come to me. So, it feels like that's at the top of the list for priorities. But quite often, it's actually not. And so, we've got all these leaders running around in emergency mode and not actually owning their day. The day's owning them, right? Everybody's coming to them. And so, this is why as leaders, I think it's so important to take a step back and Constantly be asking questions of yourself. One of the exercises I give to my clients, Marc, is— and this isn't a long time— 3 to 5 minutes at the end of each day. What were the wins today? Where did I struggle? And what am I going to do differently tomorrow? Like, what did I learn from those things that I struggled with, right? So that they're constantly pulling that information forward and doing something with it.

I love it. I love it. You know, you just gave me an idea for another podcast. I'm gonna have to invite you back because the next The next podcast we're going to do is going to be about a round meeting. And the title is going to be, To Meet or Not to Meet? That is the question.

I love it. A little.

We'll make it a little Shakespearean and stuff. We'll dress up for it. I would like to talk about the importance of emotional intelligence. And we'll get to that right after this. When the spotlight shines on your business, are customers applauding or yawning? In other words, how is your business performing? Make Make your business a star with a new book, Lights! Camera! Action!, business operational excellence through the lens of live theater by Marc Haine. Marc uses his business and acting experience to help you see your business like a live show so you can create a performance your customers will never forget. Buy Lights!

Camera! Action!

today at your favorite online retailer or directly at marchaine.com. Welcome back. I am speaking with the Fabulous! Kristin Harcourt. Kristin, a lot of things that you've been talking about now about leadership, self-awareness, and so on. I'd really like to delve into a little bit about this concept called emotional intelligence. And for those people who really have maybe seen it but really don't understand it, what is emotional intelligence?

Yeah, I think that's an important question because I think people have various ideas of around what that looks like.

Hmm.

Some people, touchy-feely. Emotional intelligence is really about both emotional and social skills. And so, it starts with understanding your own emotions and what you're experiencing in your internal landscape and how you're expressing that to others. Emotional intelligence is around building interpersonal skills and how you're building relationships with the people around you. And how you're able to make meaning and understand what other people are experiencing in their world. and understanding their emotions. And it's also as emotions are heightened, your ability to be able to cope with challenging situations. So, when we start to think about stress and resilience. And so, it's very much about both your internal experience and then the experience of those around you and how all of those are interacting together.

So, how does emotional intelligence differ from say, empathy?

Yeah, that's a great question. So, empathy is definitely a part of emotional intelligence. So, when we start to think about interpersonal skills. To be a great leader, I believe we really need to be able to tap into things like empathy. And as a leader, to be empathetic is around putting yourself in somebody else's shoes. And that's by just actually even being able to be a really present listener. If everybody could just work on listening, we would have— oh my gosh, I can't even tell you how much it would transform our organizations to be Actively listening, to be present with the person in front of you, not waiting to respond, not already knowing what you're going to say anyways, but just truly listening to understand. And when you're also listening to understand and people can feel that presence, they, that individual feels ultimately, it feels seen and heard. And we're all humans in organizations. in work or outside of work that all want to feel seen and heard. And so, that's one level of empathy. It's one level of emotional intelligence. Some other areas around emotional intelligence are paying attention to what's going on in your internal dialogue. So, things like self-regard. What's your self-talk look like? A lot of leaders would not speak to their friends the way they're speaking to themselves. Super hard on themselves. Expectations. Leadership, when we start to look at emotional intelligence in terms of self- It's also things like assertiveness, our ability to be independent. It's also about problem solving. So when emotions are heightened, are you able to get grounded before you make decisions? I like to talk about the pause button because if we don't pause, we have issues with things like impulse control and reality testing. We don't see reality as it is. And I'm sure everyone listening can think of a time where you sent an email and afterwards you regretted sending that email. That's emotional intelligence. That's impulse control. And stress, right? When stress, when emotions are heightened, what are you doing when those emotions are heightened? What are your coping mechanisms? Can you stay flexible? Are you still remaining optimistic? Are you putting things into perspective? Those are all areas of emotional intelligence.

Well, and it's interesting because when our emotions do get heightened, when we are angry or frustrated or things, you just You get triggered by something. The Oscars come to mind. The lizard brain takes over and you're no longer rational.

Yes.

Right? So, how does one recognize this is happening? I recognized it years ago. I couldn't understand a situation that happened. I was so mad at the situation. I was just like, grrr. And a couple hours later, I was dealing with the problem. I was just working through it and stuff. At the end, I ended up with a really good day. But then, I sat back and thought to myself, why was I so mad? Like, what was it that triggered me to be so like I wanted to throw things? And so, this idea of it was looking back with the sensible brain. It's like, why was I so irrational? Right? And so, how do people mitigate that?

Yeah, yeah. So, I think it's first of all, it's just an awareness. We all We are all going to get into moments like that, things that trigger us, and we don't all have the same triggers because we all have different lived experiences. And so a lot of times the trigger is actually bringing up something that happened in your past. And so it's, it's a safety thing. And so just to talk about what's happening in terms of your nervous system, so you've now gone into fight, flight, or freeze. And so the nervous system, the adrenaline, the cortisol is going. Your body is trying to protect you because it has some really great coping strategies that back in the day, it thinks there's a saber-toothed tiger, right? There isn't a saber-toothed tiger anymore, but it doesn't recognize that. So it's doing everything it can in that moment to keep you safe. And so that is not when you want to be taking action, right? So in that moment, so what you can start to do in terms of building awareness is just noticing what happens physically to you When you're noticing you're getting into those moments. So I'll give myself, for example, use myself for example. So I know those moments when I'm getting triggered and it's the cortisol is really going, how I experience it is in my body. I notice my chest gets really tight. It gets hot. My hands start to get sweaty. It starts to be harder to breathe. I feel some anxiety in my stomach. I start to feel knots. And so I'm going to notice in that moment, okay, my nervous system right now, it's, it's been hijacked. My brain has been hijacked in this moment. And so what do I need to do right now to calm myself down? And so some of the coping strategies might be, okay, I'm going to actually get up from where I am from my desk and I'm going to go walk around and have some movements. I'm going to sit down and intentionally take some deep Breaths. I'm going to slow it down, right? Because your body is— it's right now, it needs just some slowing down. So I'm going to take some deep breaths. Sometimes it can even actually be doing something to move through what's happening in your body. So anger, we have this, uh, right now. We— a lot of us think that there's certain emotions that are good emotions and other emotions that are bad emotions. All emotions are not good or bad. They just are. And what you do when those emotions are happening. So sometimes, even if I notice by myself and the emotions are really heightened, I might actually go downstairs to my punching bag and take it and do some punches in my punching bag to just move through the emotion. So, you want to be aware of what's happening. You want to do what you can to calm your nervous system. So, I want to be conscious of some people listening right now. They might notice, oh, this happened at work, Kristin. I can't go to my punching bag. I'm in the workplace right now and it's happening. So, if you're noticing that you're having a conversation with someone and in that moment, it's really heightened, you have permission to say, I'm noticing right now there's a lot going on and I just, I realized I need to take a pause right now. Can I, can you give me 2 or 3 minutes? I'm just gonna go to the bathroom or take a little walk and come back again. You can do that. It's okay. You're allowed to do that. And I just think so many leaders feel like, well, they can't. They can't. It's like this rule they've created in their head. It's not actually true. It's not accurate. I've had clients where even they noticed it was happening in a meeting and they said, I'm gonna have to step out. I'll be back in 5 minutes. If it's somewhere where you're in a meeting and you're noticing that there's just 2 of you and you know the emotions are heightened and you can start feeling it coming up, you can even say to that person, I'm just noticing I'm not in the best frame of mind right now to have a productive conversation. Can we have this later on this afternoon? Or, can we connect for this conversation tomorrow? It's really those coping strategies are noticing if you can't right now show up as your best self, it's not the right time to have that conversation.

I love it. As you were talking about this, it reminded me of situations where people get incensed and they get hurt. I think I have a theory that after you After you're like 12 years old, you stop telling people that your feelings get hurt. Because when you're 7 and you come home and you say, Johnny hurt me. Tell Johnny not to hurt your feelings. And I think as adults, we stop recognizing that a lot of times what's hurting, what we're feeling is actually that hurt. And so, your strategy about being that present and being aware and saying, yeah, okay, right now I'm feeling like I'm being attacked. I'm feeling like I'm hurt because I did all this work. Whatever it is. And being able to distance yourself away from it, I think, is the magical key.

And you can actually experience your healing in your workplace. Like, that's the beautiful part, right? Some of this is a healing journey as you're talking about it, right? It's like you didn't have anyone supporting you necessarily in that moment. Or even as a child, right? The parents are like, suck it up. It's fine. Move on. Or they're trying to fix it. You never got a chance to actually process and work through those emotions, and now they're showing up again. Now, as the adult, you get to be there for yourself as the adult that you didn't get to have someone necessarily there for yourself, or you couldn't be there for you as a 7-year-old because you didn't have the mental capacity, right? I always say to people, like, good for you. Your 5-year-old self or your 7-year-old, look how resourceful they are. They had to come up with a coping strategy in this moment. But now you're the adults. And so now you can do things a little bit differently. And the beauty of relationships, this is all relationships. Like, this is why I love this work. Because as a leader transforms in his workplace, or she transforms in her workplace, it now transforms the relationship with their significant others, with their family members, with their children, because you're a whole person. And all of this transfers into all areas.

It's amazing. How this idea of self-awareness for leaders. How self-aware are leaders? Like, I talk to leaders and they think that they're super self-aware.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. So, it's interesting. Dr. Urich did some work around this. And so, she's done tons and tons of work around self-awareness and a lot of research studies. And in her research studies, she found that 95% of people said they rated themselves as, I'm highly self-aware. And really, she said the numbers are more like 8 to 10%, right? Like around 10% of us truly, truly have strong self-awareness. And she also groups self-awareness in 2 different areas. So, the self-awareness is you knowing yourself and being aware of what's going on, right? So Marc, you might say to yourself like, ooh, I notice in this moment, I need to take a break from this. So, you're having that self-awareness there. But then, self-awareness, and that's one category. Self-awareness is also other people and how they perceive you. And so, you might even be going around saying, oh, I've got such great self-awareness. And then, you'd ask your significant other or someone at work and they'd say, well, in some situations, not always, not really. Right? So, the other— this is why I'm such a big fan of doing 360s with leaders because it can be very enlightening When they get some feedback from other individuals, it's not that they were trying to be difficult. It's not that they wanted to do these things. They're just doing things without realizing that they're doing it. And it is having an impact on people.

I love it! This is so fascinating, Kristin. How can— if people are— if this is resonating with people, how can they get into contact with you?

Yeah, thank you. So, anyone who wants to have a conversation, I'm always open to connect. And you can check out my website, which is just my name, kristinharcourt.com. And I'm also very active on social media. You'll find me on Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook, all under the same thing under Kristin Harcourt. Happy to connect. Please reach out to me on LinkedIn and send me a connection request. Would love to meet you there.

I love this content. And as the viewers will recognize, they have a couple of people who are super passionate about this stuff. So, my challenge to the audience would be if you know somebody who could use this information, or you're a member of an association who understands that this kind of information would be magical at your next conference, why don't you go ahead and reach out to either Kristin or myself? It'd be a great opportunity I think to share Kristin's knowledge by getting her up on a big stage somewhere. Kristin, is there some way that people can test their perceptions? We're talking about the self-awareness thing. How do they test themselves to find out how self-aware they actually are?

I think a really good place to start is actually by getting feedback from others. And it's something that people don't do enough. And it's recognizing that the first time you ask, people might say, oh, you're great. No, don't change. And then, ask again. And then, ask again. And then, ask again. Because people, they don't know the first time you're asking. Do you really want to hear the answer? Are you just asking because it's, you know, you think you should ask? And so, they want to know. It's vulnerable. I just want to say like, when somebody asks, sometimes people find it difficult to get feedback from others. It's very vulnerable. The person delivering, it's vulnerable to ask for feedback. It's also very vulnerable for that person who's actually putting themselves out there and offering the feedback to you. My experience with a lot of leaders is the first or second time that they ask, they don't get the information. But when they ask again, Or they can say, one of the things that I'm working on is being a better listener. Could you let me know those times that perhaps I'm not showing up as the best listener that I could? So now, you're also directing the person. So from the leader's perspective, if there's a specific area you're working on, let your team know. Let your significant other know. They're very happy to give you feedback on that as well. And then, you let them know, you know, one of the things that I'm working on is I notice sometimes when I'm in a meeting that I'm always the first one to talk. And so, I want to make sure I'm creating space for others to be able to participate and be able to talk and that I'm not dominating the conversation. So please, can you let me know if after a meeting you noticed that I was really dominating the conversation or I was speaking over people? I'd really appreciate you giving me that feedback. So now, people are also more likely to give you the feedback because you're being very specific. on what you're working on. And then, they can let you know how you can do that specific thing better. But I'm a big believer asking feedback, asking for it regularly. And then also, when you're doing one-on-ones with people, you can be saying to them, hey, as your leader, what could I be doing more of? What should I be doing less of? And then, this is where you start to get what works really well for one person. They might say, yeah, I love, you know, you sharing information all the time. Somebody else might say, I feel a little bit micromanaged and I'd like to have a bit more autonomy, right? So, it's also recognizing it's not one size fits all. So, you're constantly adapting as a leader. And I find that kind of feedback can create tons and tons of additional self-awareness.

I love it. It really does mean that we need as leaders, we need a level of humility to be able to understand that we're not perfect. And we have to be vulnerable enough to be able to admit it?

You know, it's all about humility. And it's really recognizing. And this is where I really like to celebrate growth and development. I mean, Marc, you're never done. I'm never done. We are not done until the day we die is my belief, right? We're constantly evolving. I like to think of the onion. It's one layer and another layer and another layer. And you might think, oh, I'm done this. And then all of a sudden, another layer comes. And so, you're never done. And I don't think of that as a bad thing or, oh, we need to be perfect. It's actually— that growth feels great because you're constantly— the line's here and then you're moving the line more and you're moving the line. We all— we would feel stagnant if we got to this place and then we were all done, right? We're all actually looking to continuously grow and develop and evolve. So I think it's just about welcoming it in and seeing that as an opportunity as opposed to that being somehow a bad thing.

Yeah, yeah. Some people might be watching this and realizing now that they're filtering through and kind of testing their self-awareness, testing where they're at as a leader. Are there any cautionaries to what we're talking about today?

Yes, I'm glad you asked that. I think what's really important is self-compassion, right? So now, all of a sudden, someone might hear this conversation and realize, oh my gosh! Now, I realize I just I have not been listening. I haven't been listening to my kids, to my partner, to my employees. And so now, they feel like it's time to bash themselves. And no, no, this is your work in progress. And so, to me, it's around one step forward, 2 steps back, 3 steps forward, 2 steps back. It's this shuffle. It's a dance. And it's about giving yourself the space to be practicing. One of the things I ask my daughter every night is, How were you kind? How did you fail? How were you courageous? And it's because— and I've been doing this. She's 12 now. We started doing this when she was around 7 or 8 years old because I don't want her to see failure as a bad thing. I want her to see failure as she went out there and she put herself out there. She tried something. And what did she learn through the process of trying? But you have to really have a growth mindset and you have to have a level of Humility again, like you said, and self-compassion, right? So, really give yourself space and think of this as fun and playful and you're experimenting and it's exploration. Come from that place as opposed to the place where it's around, ugh, I'm not meeting my expectations. I should know how to do this already. That's not going to get you to where you want to go.

I love it. I love it. This has been such a valuable conversation, Kristin. I can't thank you enough. Do you have any last thoughts about what we're talking about today?

Yeah, I think last thoughts would just be we all have this breath. We use it all the time. But we don't pay attention to the fact that we're breathing day in, day out. And it's really, really valuable. So, those times where you're feeling any type of emotion, any type of overwhelm, if you could just give yourself a couple of seconds to pause and take some deep breaths or just go, go move away from your desk and walk around for a couple of seconds. It truly, I almost feel like it's magical how powerful that can be. So really taking the pause and coming back to your breath. And just taking it one day at a time. Baby steps. Baby steps.

Love it! Could you remind everybody one more time how they can get a hold of you?

Yes, thank you, Marc. So, it's kristenharcourt.com.

Love it! Kristin, thank you so much again for sharing your passion, your knowledge, and your expertise. This has been absolutely magical. Thank you.

Thank you, Marc, for wonderful questions and a really great discussion. I've truly enjoyed it.

Thanks so much! Why don't you let me know if this was of value to you? As always, my offer stands. If you would like 30 minutes of my time to brainstorm your business with you and your team, please feel free to book yourself on my online calendar. The link is in the show notes. Also in the show notes is Kristin's contact information. And I believe she offers 30-minute consultation as well. If you want to pick her brain, explore, do a little discovery call with her, she is absolutely fabulous. As always, I am at your service. And if you haven't done so yet, why don't you go ahead and subscribe to this feed? This podcast is to your service. This is the only reason why I do it. If you subscribe to it, If you ring the bell, you will get notifications and first dibs whenever I create new content that will help you create the jaw-dropping, show-stopping experience your employees and your customers deserve. My name is Marc Haine. I hope you stay safe, stay healthy, and I hope you dare to be the exception.