Creating Emotional Connections: Key to Brand Loyalty and Recognition

It is absolutely heartbreaking and a harsh reality that most companies blend into the background. Honestly, people who create companies and they have so much passion behind what they do and they put out a really good product or service and they put their time, attention, and focus into it. But yet, they are failing to capture the minds, much less the hearts of their potential customers. How can your business not only stand out but truly resonate with your audience in a way that turns every customer into a champion for your brand? And that's what we're talking about next on Marc Haine Live. Welcome to this episode. This is where small business owners and entrepreneurs develop new skills to help them create the jaw-dropping, show-stopping experience that their customers and of course, their employees deserve. I am your host, Customer and Employee Experience Strategist Marc Haine. And I am so glad you are here with me today because my guest for this episode is the Executive Advisor and Keynote Speaker, Ken Schmidt. And today, we will be peeling back the layers on how to transform a business from merely existing in the marketplace to becoming an unforgettable brand that resonates deeply with its audience. Now, I have to say, if you know somebody who could use this information, please, please, please share this episode. We know people in our realm who we see information. It's like, gosh, if only Steve would hear about this. Share it with Steve. Please, please do that. And while you're at it, why don't you go ahead and make sure that you subscribe to this podcast? That way, you get notified whenever I bring you fresh new content. Standing out in our globally driven big brand marketplace has to become more than just a goal. It really does have to be a driving strategy. Every day, businesses are bombarded with new techniques and tools promising that they're going to get visibility and growth. But the fact of the matter is your customers are being bombarded by brands 1,000 times a day with every waking moment of their lives. Yet, so many businesses struggle to leave a lasting impression, becoming just another name that the customer can ignore. It's not just about being seen. It's about being remembered, about being cherished, and about being championed. So that brings us to our Question of the Day. So, have you ever considered the real cost of being forgettable? How much has blending in cost your business in missed opportunities and lost revenue? I invite you to be part of this conversation. Please go ahead, share your comments, even your questions, and even your insights as we dive into this topic today. And make sure, share it on social media, this episode. Hashtag it #ExperienceLeadership. And let's open up a nice debate back and forth between what's working for you. What are some of the ideas you're using? What are things you're doing to be remembered? Because I think if we share it, we'll all get better. As I mentioned today, I am joined by Ken Schmidt, a leading figure in business transformation and one of the most sought-after executive advisors and speakers Globally. Ken is celebrated for his crucial role in the dramatic turnaround of Harley-Davidson Motor Company from the brink of financial collapse to a global market leader in the 1990s. His innovative approach shifted Harley-Davidson's focus from product-centric to customer-centric, significantly enhancing customer loyalty and establishing it as one of the most successful names in the motorcycle industry. Heck, one of the most recognized names in the world. Ken is the author of Make Some Noise: The Unconventional Road to Dominance. And he is the ghostwriter of 100 Years of Harley-Davidson, the best-selling motorsports book ever written. He also hosts the Tailgating with Geniuses podcast and co-founded Torque Sessions Leadership Training. His philosophy is simple yet impactful.

Never do what's expected.

Never do what's expected. Always make yourself noticeably different and have a lot more fun than you're supposed to. Ken, welcome to the show. It's so amazing to have you.

Well, thanks Marc. Thanks for having me. Great intro, by the way. I loved it.

Oh, I'm so glad you enjoyed it. Hey, before we get too deep into today's topic, could you just tell us a little bit about who you serve, your customers? Who are your customers?

Sure.

My customers, Marc, run the gamut of virtually any industry that you can think of serving any marketplace. Everything from healthcare to franchise casual dining, to big manufacturing, to technology and software. It's virtually any business out there in any industry that is looking to learn how to compete instead of simply go to market.

And so if I was to ask you, what is the big expensive problem that you solve, what would you say it is?

Well, I think the foremost problem is that businesses don't know how to compete.

Yes.

They know how to do what they do really well. And unfortunately, that's what they focus their energy on. To your earlier point, they're really good at making what they make, selling what they make, serving what they make, taking care of customers. They do all of that and think that that's enough. And that's what they focus their energy on. How do we do all of this stuff better? But at the end of the day, potential buyers, even current buyers, Don't take it or leave it. You're— don't value your internal processes and what you're doing different. They don't care what your profitability is or if you're growing income faster than revenue is. If they don't like you, you don't exist, right? They have no reason to come back.

If they don't know you, they'll never like you.

I mean, that's the most rudimentary thing as businesses say, well, you know, what we really want to do is build our awareness. And I go, oh, don't. Don't sell yourself short, man. You got to do a lot more. Just because somebody knows who you are doesn't mean they're going to choose you over all the wide array of options that we have of very, very similar businesses that essentially do the same stuff for the same people.

Yeah, I'd like— well, I'd like to go on record officially right then, right now, Ken, with you right now. I want to go on the record and say being the best kept secret is not a bonus.

No, it sure isn't. That's probably cost more people their jobs than got them that raise or promotion. That just doesn't work. Maybe that worked 100 years ago somehow. I doubt it.

Yeah, yeah. So, why don't we start off by describing for the audience what does it mean for a business to be forgettable in today's marketplace?

Oh geez! It means gloom and doom, Marc. As I said earlier, every business in every industry, doesn't matter what it is or even how big it is, has other competitors that, you know, for all intents and purposes, do the exact same stuff. The product looks the same, smells the same, tastes the same, you know, in a lot of cases is the same. And they produce it and bring it to market equally well. You know, they've got that focus on quality and excellence and doing things quickly and efficiently and all that wonderful stuff that does absolutely nothing to create any memorable, meaningful differentiation out there in the marketplace that does nothing to kind of ring a bell that says, prefer us. We're different than everybody else. Just being good is not good enough.

Right. And so, we talked just before we went live. We talked about my background's in hospitality. And I can tell you, like when I talk to chefs about what they're doing, Everybody thinks that they're doing something unique or something different or that it's— but a beef dip is a beef dip. A plate of spaghetti is a plate of spaghetti. And that in itself is not going to make the brand. So, what are some common misconceptions businesses have about brand visibility and engagement?

The belief, and that's an excellent example, the food and restaurant example is such a good one because The restaurant manager or owner or chef will believe, you know, if we're putting a superior— if we're plating a superior product and putting it in front of our guests, we're moving the needle. And I say, God, I wish that was true. I mean, I wish we lived in that kind of world. I mean, think about, uh, anytime you've gone out, you know, for a nice meal somewhere. 2 weeks later, somebody asks you about, you know, hey, how was dinner over at Marc's, you're gonna have a really hard time remembering what you ate specifically. You're gonna— hey, it was really good, uh, but when you talk about the business, you're gonna say, you know, they did a really great job. They, they, they took such great care of me. They made it so much fun. Or, you know, or none of those things, uh, but if all you're doing is trying to leave that a lasting imprint based on the product, Man, there's just no way that the needle's gonna move. I paid for that meal. I expect it to be good. And it was. Well, hooray! You just reached the lowest rung on my ladder of expectation and desire. You gave me my money's worth. Big deal!

Yes, yeah. And that's not to say that when you have a really good— so as a restaurant operator, if you have a really good burger, that won't make a difference to your business. Or if you have a muffler shop and you have like the most engaging, friendly employees that that won't make a difference because—

Oh, that does make a difference.

It will make a difference to the people who you serve. But when you have the sign up that says, we're a muffler shop, you're competing with everybody else that says, we're a muffler shop. And telling people we have the friendliest staff is not going to move that needle.

And because all of their competitors are also saying that.

Exactly.

Right? Our people make the difference. We're people-focused. We're customer-focused. We're not like everybody else, says everybody else.

And I'm going to put on my economic development hat for municipality because the one phrase that they say, every single town says it at some point.

A good place to live, work, and do business.

A work, live, play. You knew exactly where I was going as soon as I said it, right? How many times have people said that, right?

What happens is, and I've kind of said this for years, it's easy to observe if you look for it, is as any industry matures— mufflers, restaurants, fabrics, floor coverings, construction, doesn't matter what it is— as an industry matures, all the players in that industry, without thinking about it, maybe it's a subconscious thing, just start marching in lockstep with their competitors. We say what they say, we do what they say, because it seems to work for them. Or this is what we're supposed to be talking about and never realizing.

And that's the biggest personal— that's the biggest perceptual distortion is because they're saying it and they're doing well in our eyes. We don't know what their financials look like. We think, oh, then we have to copy that.

And what I always say about that is, you know, in what universe would anybody running a business want to be compared to a competitor? Want to look like, sound like, smell like, feel like a competitor.

Yes.

And 100% of businesses, well, geez, we wouldn't— we don't want to do that. And I said, well, let's turn the spotlight on you. That's exactly what you're doing. You don't think about it and you don't think about competing. You think about going to market. You think about doing what you do. You think about doing what you do better. And all that's great, but customers are way more inclined to choose a business not based on what you do and how well you do it. They're doing it based on who you are. It's the people. It's what— it's back in the restaurant, the experience that, that, that server came where, you know, she wasn't annoying, she wasn't cloying, but she was there. She was pleasant. She made you feel great to be there. Like, like you were a star. Like you, you, you, you were the focus of all of her attention. But she never irritated you. She didn't embarrass you by bringing all the dishwashers out to clang dishes together to sing Happy Birthday. Didn't do any of that. Just made you feel like a million bucks. And when you left there, 2 weeks later, 2 months, 2 years later, if somebody asked you about the restaurant, you said, they, they're incredible. They do a great job. All based on the behavior of that one person.

Mm-hmm.

Painted that picture in your mind of what that business represents. And that one person became the umbrella that covered the whole Organization. They rock. They're the best. I'm going back to that. I prefer them. Oh, what did you eat when you were there? I don't know. That was a year ago. I don't remember. I just remember it was good. But then, the service was phenomenal.

Everything that you've mentioned is really based on emotional ties to the experience, right? Like when we talked about the food, let's say, in the thing, you don't remember the food. You just remember it was really good. You don't remember the service, but you just remembered it made you feel really good. So, how much of what we're talking about really is this idea that the emotions are really the place we want to play?

Well, emotions trump logic. Emotion trumps everything. But if you don't mind, I want to take just half a step back and discuss this term customer experience because we all hear it. We all use it. No matter where I go on the planet, people talk about it. But typically coming at it from the wrong angle, an angle of confusion.

Right.

They'll say, hey, we, you know, our CEO, the chairman of the board, or whatever book I just read is telling me that we need to be focused on giving our customers a great experience, a great customer experience. Now, we need to go do it. So, okay, everybody, from now on, you know, we're going to be delivering great experiences for people. And Everybody working in the business goes, I don't even know what that means. What am I supposed to do? Because we tend to equate a great customer experience with huge overt gestures, right? And a marching band and dancing elephants and all kinds of freebies and giveaways. But all customer experience is, is what a customer remembers, period. What that customer remembers about the time they spent with you. What that customer remembers about what you did or didn't do for them. What that customer remembers, how they felt during this experience. Experience is totally drawn to what we remember, and we tend to not remember the obvious. And the obvious is what you do, right? They're a muffler shop. Yeah, we get that. That's not an experience. Getting the new muffler was not an experience. You know, you got what you paid for. It's Anything that was done beyond that to paint some kind of a memorable, positive picture in your mind, and if the stars are aligned properly, that somehow warmed or touched your heart or delighted you, that's what you're going to remember. That's what the experience is.

And I tease a lot of people in my realm because a lot of times you have I believe that we have a bunch of different responses to something. And the worst response, well, the worst response is absolutely nothing. That nothing is memorable. The next worst response is, oh, what a shame. You know, I went to the muffler shop and I was stuck in line with 5 other people. They only had 1 clerk on and we just stood there. What a shame. It didn't kill the experience, but what a shame.

Yeah.

Right? As opposed to walking into the muffler shop and they go, you must be Ken. Ken, I think we have a bay ready for you. Let's just fill this out real quick and we'll get you your car in right away.

Make yourself at home. Here's a cup of coffee.

Yeah, right. And so, bringing that hospitable side to it, right? And so, designing something to be that expectation, I think that we all have every interaction that we come up against. We have an expectation of what the experience is going to be like, right? You and I getting on this call, we have an expectation. So what's going to take it to the next step?

Let me share a story with you. Please. You've probably noticed that people that ride Harleys, people like me, if we're at a red light or at a stop sign, we're revving our engine. It makes absolutely no sense. It wastes really expensive premium fuel, but we all do it. And what I came to notice is that Just watching this once in downtown Milwaukee, watching a guy at a light just revving his engine just like I do, it dawned on me what was happening. He's not revving the engine to, you know, make a loud noise. He's making the engine, revving the engine so that people will look at him. And then when that person notices, the guy on the bike notices, hey, you know, people are looking at me. Even if they're sneering or snoring at him because he's making a loud noise. That when we as people see other people looking at us, something magical happens. And what happens is a little dopamine's released in our brain. Somebody's looking at me, right? Nobody looks at me at home or at work, but I'm on this bike revving the engine. People— I like that. Got that little dopamine blast of delight in the brain. And, and what do we as human beings What are we programmed to do to any source of delight in our lives? And the answer is we're programmed to return to it. We will faithfully seek out and return to any source of delight in our lives until it fails to delight us. So the fundamental question then that I take and turn and ask a business leader or the cultural people, you know, the people working within that business is, what are we here to do? And people will, you know, knee-jerk that answer by saying, A knee-jerk answer to that by saying, oh, you know, we're here to serve. And I go, that's really great, but so is everybody else. What are we really here to do? Think about it. If we are focused instead of on serving people, on delighting people, being a source of delight, no matter how small, for the person walking in the door at the muffler shop, the family of 4 sitting down to celebrate a birthday in a restaurant, if we're focused on being a source of delight for someone, Doing something for them they don't expect, letting them see and sense our immense visible passion for what we're doing. They like that. That feels— it feels good to see that. It feels good to be made to feel special, especially in an environment where I'm not used to it or I don't expect it. Pow! Positive customer experience. I've got a choice next time of who I'm going to do business with. I'm going to come back and do business with you. You made an effort. You delighted me. There's an emotional resonance there that I didn't get from the other place. And it didn't really take a whole lot of effort to make that happen.

It took caring this much. You just had to care this much.

It took caring that much. And it took a leader, whoever's in charge, the owner, the manager, the CEO, say, modeling that behavior.

Yes.

This is what we do here. If I'm doing it, you'll be doing it because people who work for a living model their superiors. We all do. If the leaders aren't doing that, they're just hurry up and run people through, apologize for the slow service, you know, whatever that is. Then employees go, well, I guess that's what we do here. This is how it's done. And boy, that is how it's done if you want to commoditize your business and destroy your profit margins.

So, we have talked about kind of what the problem is and the consequences to those problems. We've also now painted a picture of kind of what the ideal looks like. So, I'd like to jump into some actual solutions that people can apply and how they can learn to adapt better. And we'll get to that right after this.

When the spotlight shines on your business, are customers applauding or yawning? In other words, how is your business performing? Make your business a star with a new book Lights! Camera! Action! Business operational excellence through the lens of live theater by Marc Haine. Marc uses his business and acting experience to help you see your business like a live show so you can create a performance your customers will never forget. Buy Lights! Camera! Action! today at your favorite online retailer or directly at marchaine.com.

Welcome back! I am here with author Ken Schmidt. The author of Make Some Noise. Ken, I love your book and I love the whole concept behind it. Can you tell us a little bit about Make Some Noise?

Sure. The reason it's called Make Some Noise is recall the story I just told about Harley owners revving their engine at a stop sign or at a red light. If you were to close your eyes right now, And I said, you know, imagine the sound of a motorcycle passing your house or passing your window or wherever you are. And you could hear that sound in your head. And then I would say, that sound that you just heard, what manufacturer's name was on that bike? And if you're like most people, you say, oh, you know, I don't know, that could have been a Honda, it could have been a BMW. But then I get specific and say, all right, now I want you to imagine a Harley is coming by your door. Or by your house. That's a different sound, isn't it? You recognize that as soon as you hear it. That's distinct. It's different. It stands out. It's memorable. You hear that sound and a picture forms in your mind. See, the Harley makes a distinct, different sound, a different noise, if you will, among the, you know, the other motorcycle manufacturers that are out there. And what I, what I do is I like to use that as a kind of a metaphor and say that, you know, we all As individuals and as businesses, we all make noise. And the noise that we're making is either that indistinguishable hum, that sewing machine sound, you know, that imported motorcycles make, or it's that deep resonant rumbling, instantly recognized roar of a Harley. So I say, what noise are you making? So that's why I tell you to make some noise. It's like, stop blending in. Let's focus on what we can do to make your business stand out, be memorable, be spoken of highly. and be preferred. And that's what the book's about. Basically, here's how to do that.

I really like the whole idea about the road to dominance. When I heard the road to dominance, I kind of went, eee, because dominance is a really tough word. But then, once I got into the tough word behind it, it's like, oh, now I understand. So, talk a little bit about— okay, before we get there, I'd like to talk a little bit about Harley-Davidson. Because back in the 1980s, I think it's fair to say that Honda was really kind of taking the lead in the motorcycle industry.

Yes.

And so, what happened at Harley-Davidson? What were the pinnacles of change? And how did you move that from Honda kind of being and Harley-Davidson kind of being that and now it's like the world leader?

Okay. Well, first, when Honda and then Kawasaki and Suzuki and Yamaha, you know, big, deep, deep-pocketed companies that with very, very familiar names aggressively came at the US market and came at Harley's core market, which was big heavyweight bikes. Harley did what a lot of companies do, what most companies do, and just marched in lockstep. Well, they're talking about their Reliability, their speed, their horsepower. Well, we need to do that too. And pretty soon the business had commoditized itself and was forced to compete on the virtues of the product. And Harley would lose in that comparison because Harleys cost a lot more. Hey, you've got the horsepower, you got the quality, you got all these great features and benefits. That just gets you in the game. You know, what else do you have that would make me prefer you over these other guys who happen to cost a lot less? Right. And Harley didn't have answers for that. And Harley also believed, and this is ultimately, I think, what killed the business, that the attraction of the business, the reason for the business what existed was to build and glorify products. You know, and what I would say is if you live by your product, glorify and promote your product, and that's all you stand for, eventually you die by that because somebody else is going to come along and do it faster, better, cheaper. And that's exactly what happened. So I, I, I, I kind of looked at that, and I also looked at this notion of, you know, the tattoos that you see out there on people's bodies that, you know, Harley-Davidson's corporate logo inked into people's skins, which, you know, fascinates me to this day that millions of people have done that, you know, for over 100 years. And if I ask a business person, hey, what do you think that That logo, that tattoo on that person's body represents? And they'll say, oh, that's their loyalty to their motorcycle. And I say, that's the thinking that destroyed Harley's business. That thinking, hey, we're here to provide a product. This is what we do. That flat out doesn't work. It can't work unless you're the only player in the market. And, you know, for several years, Harley was the only player in the market. So things were pretty easy when the Lookalike stuff came in, Harley didn't have a leg to stand on. Competing with byproduct ultimately kills you. So we said, let's put the focus not on glorifying product, but glorifying people. Let's be a source of delight for people and see what that does. See if they come back for more. See if they tell their friends, yeah, we're still going to design and build and sell and serve great, awesome motorcycles. But instead of focusing all of our energy on that, let's focus our energy on humanity being a source of delight. Let's tap into some basic drivers of human behavior and use that for competitive advantage. And by God, we did it and it worked. We became dominant. We became the de facto leader of the global bike industry. Small company out of Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Having said that though, you mentioned the revving of the engine at stoplights and stuff. If you get 2 Harleys at an intersection, they're both doing it. And so, I would argue that not only did they build a brand that is easily recognizable, but between the loyal ambassadors, you create a common human experience.

One of the absolute most pivotal parts of Harley's success story comes under the umbrella of camaraderie.

Yes.

You could call it social networking. There's a lot of newer terms to describe what happens when like-minded people get together. But we say, let's make that a keystone, a cornerstone of the business. Let's not talk about camaraderie and providing great, you know, memorable experiences for people on their bikes. Let's physically put the effort behind bringing people together so that they can enjoy the shared spirit and joy of motorcycling, but so they can also express themselves through their bike. Hey, yours is black and orange. Mine's black, orange, and, you know, with purple lightning bolts on it. I've changed mine so that it doesn't look like yours. We can be together. We're brothers and sisters. We're enjoying this camaraderie, this like-minded thinking, and all the beautiful human rewards that come with that. But I'm still able to stand out and be my own person and be recognized for that. That feels good. I like that. I'm going to keep doing that and paying for the privilege of doing it.

And the lesson I get from that as well— a lot of my clients are kind of grassroots businesses inside communities, and what you've just said is Let your brand be a catalyst to build community.

And again, we can't do that. We're a muffler shop. We can't do that. We sell dental implements. And we say, no, no, it's not about what's being sold. It's about our attitude. It's about our behavior in front of people that they find attractive, that they want to be part of. It's a basic human need that we seek out gratification, that we seek out joy and delight, that we seek out boosts to our self-esteem and to our ego. And when we do that for people, we do that under our roof for people, they come back. I feel welcome here. I feel wanted here. I feel understood here. I, I just like this feeling. And then they kind of look around and say, I'm surrounded by people who feel the same way, that are reacting to this the same way That I am. Well, hell, that means something. I mean, look at look at social media. What what that is? It's a reflection of our basic human need to have a sense of belonging, to be able to talk about ourselves and have others react to it. And we can see people reacting to it. And as long as people are reacting in the affirmative to whatever it is that we're saying, we just keep talking. We that's gratification. This feels good. I like it. People like me here. I like the people. Here. And before you know it, there's a social element to a brand that would have never expected to have it. The muffler shop can do that. No, people aren't going to come in every week to hang out and have a cup of coffee, but they know before they walk in the door, there's going to be an energy, a vibe, a visible passion and enthusiasm in this business that they're not used to seeing somewhere else. And, you know, damn it, that feels good.

And how many hardware stores And donut shops have promotions where they're taking parts of their revenue to throw towards sports camps for underprivileged children.

Oh, absolutely!

Towards people with disabilities. And so, we're doing all this work. So, can we summarize this idea of creating an emotional connection with our customers? What do we need to do to make that happen?

The first thing that we have to do— well, above all, the first thing we have to do is determine that we have to do this. We need to do this if we're going to become dominant, if we're going to become more competitive. We need to stand for something that resonates emotionally with the people that we serve. And the very first thing that we need to do is focus on the memorability of our business. And our reputation. So I always ask 3 questions. And these 3 questions are the foundation of everything that I've done at Harley and done in my life since then. And the 3 questions are, what are people saying, you know, about us as a business or me? What do we want them to say specifically about us? And third, what are we doing to get them to say it? So in other words, what kind of experience do we need to provide people and do consistently over time? And what kind of language do we need to use in front of people so that when they leave or they hang up the phone, uh, or, you know, they're not physically in our presence anymore, that they are talking about us the way we want to be talked about? And they're not going to talk about how great the muffler is or how delicious the pie was. They might get around to it. They're going to talk about us first. What are those human drivers that we want to push? What specifically? What are the words we want people to use when they're talking about us? Because when people talk about a business, they always use human language. They rock. They're cool. They're awesome. They're amazing. They're fun. I love them. They're so cool. But if this is— let's put it in writing. I said, this is what we want to be known for. And then we need to build our business and exhibit behavior that brings that language To life. If we use the same consistent language in front of people that we're serving, they start using it too. And we'll go back and use the Harley example. We don't want to limit all of our conversations to product because it gets too confusing for people. So I said, well, let's change it into something that they don't expect and that they're not getting from others in the industry. So we came up with 5 words. We're a lifestyle company. We sell a lifestyle. And that means whatever you want it to mean, whatever picture forms in your mind. We sell freedom. What does that mean? Thanks for asking. It means whatever you want it to mean, right? But nobody else has it. Nobody else can claim it. We sell camaraderie. We sell individuality, right? We talked about those things a minute ago. And rebellion, not rebellion against, you know, governments and society, but rebellion against everybody else in the industry. Let's never do what everybody else is doing. Let's always be the one that stands out because we'll get rewarded for it. People notice it. As if we as an organization can embrace this because the people running the business are consistently setting these examples that where you can see them very, very passionately engaged with people, not just customers or investors, but their fellow employees. Fellow leaders. People catch on quick that this, this is the expected behavior here. This is what we, this is what we do. This is how it's done. And when we're doing that, people notice. I mean, try to call, call Disney, call any number at Disney, call the investor relations department, its finance people. That should be boring. And see if you can find somebody who's, who doesn't sound delighted, right? They have to. That's part of it. That's what they want people to remember. And you know what you do? Can you send me a copy of your annual report?

I sure could.

But why don't I just overnight it to you? They're going to take it a step further to delight you. Well, why not? Who can't do that?

This has just been the price of admission to anybody tuning in. This has been the golden nugget. Ken, how can people get in contact with you if this is resonating with them?

Oh geez. Well, you can go to my website, kenspeaks.com. My contact information's on there. There's no question that you can ask me that I won't answer. I love answering people's questions. You can also find me on LinkedIn or send me a message there if you want. I'm easy to find. Love answering questions.

Lovely. We're not over yet. I like to do a brief session so people can hear that so that if they're tuning in and it's like, oh my God, this guy's brilliant. I need him.

Well, that's what they're saying. Yes, thanks Marc.

Because that's what they're saying. I could feel it in my bones. But so, we talked about kind of this idea of leadership kind of defining what they want to be known for. Now, we know that there's tons of companies out there with the mission and vision on the back wall. But what does leadership in an organization need to do to drive the brand from being forgettable to being top of mind? What cultural shift needs to happen from their perspective, from the top down?

From the perspective of leadership, the first thing that has to happen because everything is doomed to come up short if they don't do this, they say, we cannot defer responsibility of our reputation of the experience that we provide for people. We can't defer that to, you know, a marketing function or a sales function. This starts at the top because this is inherent in our business process. This is our reputation, our most valuable asset. What we're going to do is we're going to sit down and we're going to pick 3 or 4 words. Words are short phrases like I just used with Harley Lifestyle: freedom, camaraderie, individuality, and rebellion. What are the keywords that we want to begin weaving into all of our conversations that are— that we and only we own that, that we, as we use over and over, the people that are close to us will also begin to use that clearly differentiates us? And what behaviors do we need to exhibit in front of people to bring that language to life? And pretty much everybody will, will, will come up with words like, you know, uh, passionate, uh, you know, great listeners, whatever those things are. And I said, those are great. Come up with other ways to say that.

Right?

Because somebody else is probably already saying it. Get creative. Come up with different— create your own vernacular. I mean, if you ever watch a political debate, the, the person who answers questions honestly, forthrightly, and predictably gets no headlines the next day. A person who intentionally uses different language and says something that either shocks you or that you flat out didn't expect to hear suddenly owns the narrative. Why? It's different. It's memorable. So, what words, executive leaders, do you want people to use when they're talking about your business? If you're not consistent on it internally, there's no way the market's ever going to catch on.

Yeah.

We have to have agreement on that.

So, it's all about creating this narrative that I think that we are in control of because if we're not in control of it, Somebody else will see. And I'd like to dig a little bit more into that as well as I'd like to get into some pitfalls and some cautionaries that we should be aware of just on the off chance that there's a risk we might mess up. And we'll get to that right after this.

One of the things that is kind of foremost now in the business world, and I know you see it, Marc, and I know your guests talk about it is this comes under, uh, the header of storytelling. We have to have stories to tell. And people, oh geez, we're a muffler shop.

And I—

perfect example. Remember, let's come up with these 3, 4, 5 really memorable words that we can use to describe our business, because it's upon those words that stories are built. I say lifestyle. To use the Harley example again, lifestyle. What does that mean? Well, there's a trillion different stories I could tell that incorporate lifestyle. It's that kind of— it's not a— I can't talk about the alloys used in the metals to produce the product. When you talk about the lifestyle, about bringing people together in rallies, events, and the kind of music that's being played and the food that's being served and all the fun that people are having and the classic antique bike displays that are happening and the fashion shows. And look, that's all lifestyle. In any business, you start first with with the work, with the idea, and then the stories come out of that.

Yes.

You, you don't even have to have factual, historically, historically accurate stories. It's stuff that you can make up, right, about your business, the people that work there, the energy, the commitment that you bring to the workplace every day, and make that part of your vernacular. That's infinitely more interesting to people than your mission statement, which 100% of the world ignores. These are our strategic goals. So, what do I care? I'm here for a donut and a cup of coffee. Tell me something I'm going to remember.

It's interesting that you just said that because just prior to getting onto the podcast, I was talking with a young lady who is a manager of a grocery store. And she just got transferred from the city to a suburb. And it's a very small, relatively small community. And she was struggling with how do I step up? How do I stand out? What can I do. And to your point, this starts out with a foundational thought of what your purpose is. Not just, I'm a muffler shop. We make mufflers. But what is it that you're doing more so? And I can't remember what Break Brand talked about. The safety of one's family, right? That's a good narrative. And so, for her, it's like, well, she started using the word that she's in this small community. And it's like, but what are you doing to be a part of that community? And maybe that can be the foundational thought that you can build everything up on. If you know that you're part of this community, you can then build on it.

You say small town. You say, you know, we're a small town business. We're a community business. We're a family-oriented business. All those— you get that. You understand that immediately. And if the people inside The folks that work there, it's the person that's rounding up the carts in the lot. It's the person behind the deli counter. It's the person at the cash wrap that's checking people out. If all that person is doing is their job, small town community, all of this all becomes meaningless and worthless.

That's right.

But if that person— look, my job first and foremost here is to be a source of Delight. Hey, let me get that card for you, sir. Thanks for coming. Good to see you, man. Pow!

That's all.

Yep.

That's all.

Showed interest.

I am so waiting.

It seems like we know each other even though we don't.

I know, right? It's so funny because how many times, you know, when things are going well, it's easy. But when things go terribly, terribly wrong, that's where you really feed the muster. And so, to your point, even though there are corporate store and they have a corporation that they have to report to. If something goes badly and they're working within this community, somebody comes up and says, I have a problem. They go, oh, I'm terribly sorry. It's policy. Head office dictates that. I have no control. You've just lost the plot.

And you also spoke business language, which everybody hates. Finds absolutely abhorrent. I just love the example of the cashier. Who, and we've all seen it, next, and they're scanning and shoving the stuff in the bag. And then you think, what if— Back hash here. While he or she is processing the groceries, said, hey, what you got planned for the weekend? Well, what are you gonna not answer that question? Of course you're gonna answer the question. But as you're answering that question, oh, you know, the kids have a soccer game. Then after that, you know, we're gonna go to the pool.

Mm-hmm.

Oh, that's so fun. I love that. Oh yeah, take me with you. Whatever that is, now it's personal. The person knows you heard and reacted to them. Uh, that feels— that reeks of community. That reeks of small town. Uh, that reeks of me making a little effort to do what you didn't expect and make what's ordinarily a really dull, predictable experience a little bit more interesting. Personable. And at the end of the day, how much effort did that take? What did that cost? Well, it didn't cost anything, but the person remembers it. And if it keeps happening time and again, uh, when they're in the store or they're in the store with the kids, well, now you've just become the preferred market, the preferred business. The, the loyal buyer card that everybody gets at a store does nothing.

Yeah.

That's for people that are loyal to their checkbook. I'm saving a few pennies here. But if the name on the door changed, I couldn't care less. I'd still be coming in because I'm saving $10. Well, let's give them a different reason to come in because they prefer us. And when our name comes up in a conversation somewhere, we know that customer is saying nice stuff about us.

Yeah. And to people who are in business and stuff, when we talk about this kind of stuff, a lot of them could shrug away and say, I need to provide them what they want because otherwise, we're dead in the water. But in my book, I talk about customer journeys. And so, a first-time customer is much different than a repeat customer. Their needs are different. Their questions are different. And we can actually map out milestones that people have in our businesses before they become loyal ambassadors to our businesses. And if we understand what those look like, to your point, the minute we have that because the next time that person comes to the checkout counter, They now know the customer's name is Sandra. And it's like, hey, Sandra, how did that soccer tournament go? Did your kids—

What's that worth? Yeah.

Right? What's that? Again, it's this idea that we are building a community every single time we touch a rela— we get into a relationship with another person.

And it's a focus on being known and talked about and preferred for who we are, not what we do. We're not the grocery store. We're not a muffler. That's not all we are. That doesn't define us.

Yeah, I love it. I'm going to talk to the audience for a second because clearly, you can tell that both Ken and I are deeply committed to supporting you and your team. If you would like to explore how we could be of service to you either for a conference, a leadership retreat, or that you have a need for immediate help to a problem that you're experiencing right now, drop us a line. Our contact details are in the show notes. Ken, I love this conversation. I have a sneaking suspicion we could do a 3-hour podcast.

I do this all day, Marc. It's my favorite thing in the world to talk about.

Likewise. So, do you have any last thoughts about what we've talked about today?

Yeah, and the thought is what I always come back to is that nothing happens by accident. And you can't simply will your business to be more competitive. You can't simply will your business to be a source of delight for people. You got to make it happen. You need to model that behavior. You need to wake up and make the choice. Because you know what? It's not just the way your business is being remembered. It's how you as a person are being remembered. And don't we all want to be memorable? Don't we want to be preferred and popular and have people say amazing stuff about us?

Right?

Of course we do. So let's make it happen. I love it.

I love that you use the word choice because it also indicates that this is an intentionality. It's something we wake up to do every single day.

I use the word intentionality a lot when I'm speaking and training. If I'm showing pictures of something that's being done properly, I go, none of what you're seeing here is accidental. This is intentional. And you can kind of break it down and show people what those things are, things that might be invisible. But when you spell it out, they'll say, Hey, I can do that. We can do that. Why shouldn't we do that? Works, works for them. It'll work for us.

Sorry about that. The phone just went off in the middle of a show. I'm new at this. It's only episode 208.

Somebody trying to sell you aluminum siding.

Yeah. Or, yeah, vent cleaning. Ken, look, I want to thank you so much for sharing your passion and your expertise with us today. This has been absolutely brilliant. It's been so much fun hanging out with you.

I love hanging out with like minds, baby.

I'd like to have you back for, you know, we could talk about something else within this realm because there's so much we could be talking about. Thank you again for joining me today.

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Why don't you let me know if this was of value to you? As always, my offer stands. If you would like 30 minutes of my time to brainstorm your business with you and your team, feel free to book a time on my online calendar. The link is down below in the show notes. It's the one that's marked with meetwith.marchaine.com. It would be my absolute honor to be of service to you. And while you're at it, why don't you go ahead leave a comment or review about this episode? I'd love to get your feedback. Was this of value to you?

Please comment.

Thanks again for joining me today. My name is Marc Haine. I hope you stay safe, stay healthy, and I hope you dare to be the exception.