Enhance Your Team's On-Shift Performance

In past episodes, we talked about the high cost of employee turnover and the uncertainty that employee turnover can bring to an organization. Yet, we still really focus heavily on KPIs— Key Performance Indicators— when we should also be concentrating on the other KPI— Key Personnel Indicators. And that's coming up next on Marc Haine Live. Welcome back to Marc Haine Live. This is where small business owners and entrepreneurs can pick up core skill sets to help them work on their business, not just in their business. I'm your host, Service Expert and Master of Experiences Marc Haine. And today, my guest is Business Consultant and Transition Coach Jean Howard. And we'll get to her in just a moment. In the meantime, why don't you go ahead and hit the like button and subscribe to this feed? I really enjoy making this content and would love it if I could find out from you if this is of value to you. I want to do this but only if it is of benefit to you. I heard quite a prophetic saying the other day. There was— the saying was, hard work spotlights the character of people. Some turn up their sleeves. Some turn up their noses. And some don't turn up at all. Which brings me to our Question of the Day. So, when it comes to your people, what is your biggest focus? When you look back at how you serve your staff, the people around you, your stakeholders in your business, how do you serve them? I'd love to see your comments. So, why don't you go ahead and put your comments in just a 1 or 2 word, or 1 sentence. of how you serve your clients. What do you do for them? As I mentioned, my guest today is Audacious Promoter of Abundance with Purpose Consultant and Transition Coach Jean Howard. Jean is a serial entrepreneur and a business educator. She has her MBA from Cornell University and a bachelor's degree from Occidental College and has been certified by the International Coach Federation. Welcome to the show, Jean. So nice to have you.

I'm really excited to be here today, Marc. Thank you.

So Jean, I left out a lot of what you gave me as your bio because I figured coming from you would sound better than coming from me. But maybe you can start off by telling us a little bit about what you do for your clients.

Pretty much what my focus is now, having gone through a number of industries and played a variety of roles in business, both small and large, is help people who are running businesses or key players in a business to figure out what their uniqueness is and how to bring that to the table and be human. When I was in business school, you know, there's a lot of management by objectives, and we were looking at numbers and facts, and data could give us a lot of information. But what was lost there was the human side of things. And through all my experiences, what I see, the commonality is people. And trends, culture has really changed. I ran 2 entrepreneurship centers at schools, graduate schools, one here in Rensselaer and one at Fordham University in New York City, and saw a whole different culture. Kind of approach to business by graduate students and a real shift in attitude in the workplace. And so as I sorted through this and helped people of my generation and other generations to really make a difference with the 40 hours or 60 hours that they put in every, every week, I really dug in and said, what's important? What's important for people to adjust to? Or to learn. And so, that's what I do with my clients. Help them to be the best them. Abundance with purpose.

It's really interesting because you hit on something. And when you look at the change, you said that as you were going through university and stuff, the students themselves were changing. What do you think the catalyst for that change was?

The cynical part of me says that there was a promise for women. You can have it all. You can be a CEO or a vice president. You can have a child or children. You can stay in shape. You can have a wonderful, wonderful marriage. You can have friendships and relationships. And the reality is we all only have 24 hours in a day. And automation has eased some of that demand, but, but not all of it. And I think that today's students or the current generation going through graduate school or undergraduate realize That you can't have it all, and you have to choose. And they have choices. I think they recognize what their parents have given up, and they say, "Is it worth it? Is it worth it to work 19 years and then be released right before they their what's the word? Right before they get all their benefits and their retirement. You know where where's the loyalty? And they see." that business is just all about something else than taking care of people.

Yeah, it's interesting that you say that because I was reading, I think, Leaders Eat Last, Simon Sinek. And he was talking about how up until the '80s, laying off staff wasn't a thing before then. And all of a sudden now, we have a generation of Millennials coming up in the workplace who have seen their, for lack of a better word, seeing their parents get screwed by their businesses, right? People put in— I know my father was the same way. 28 years with a company and they decided, oh, it's time to change directions now. So, it's time. Okay, you're gone. And did they pay? Yeah, they paid severance and all that. But at 54 years old to be laid off when this has been your whole career, challenging, right?

Yeah, it is challenging.

And so, I really like one of the reasons why I was so attracted to you and what you talk about is because of this idea that KPIs are more than just the numbers on a spreadsheet. Just out of curiosity, how did you get involved with this focus as a business consultant?

Yeah, good question. Yeah, my background is I have an MBA in finance. And so, numbers, numbers, numbers. And I was trained really well in financial planning by a relatively large conglomerate. Which, by the way, broke up since I left. I'm sure it was because I left. Not really. But nonetheless, it was numbers. And what I saw was people getting discouraged, people having all kinds of— not problems, but just human issues that were just ignored. And the numbers don't tell the whole story. So I went from being a finance person to looking at data and data warehousing, looking at trends, helping companies to use their data to make decisions. Okay, great. But there's always something behind those numbers, and that is people. People making decisions. Well, the numbers indicate this: we should lay off 5 people. However, we can't lay off those 5 people because they just had children or they are supporting their elderly parents. And that got lost somehow. So as I, as I worked with entrepreneurs, I saw them making choices that were good for everyone. It was win-win all around, whether it was for the people working for them, their contractors, their suppliers, the people who clean their office. I mean, that, that it really could be a situation that work could be a situation that was satisfying and rewarding throughout the whole supply chain. And I just said, you know what, we need to— I need to carry that message forward. And so that's why I do what I do.

Yeah.

The second part of that, though, is the happiness or joy or satisfaction in the role that you're playing. And realizing not everybody is made to be a vice president or CEO. To understand your gifts, your talents, your skills, And match them up. You as an employee or entrepreneur, you have a responsibility. And if you are the employee of someone else, the manager, the employer in my opinion has a certain responsibility as well.

Yeah, yeah. And I read in your bio that you were responsible for launching over 3 dozen startups. Why do you have such a huge focus then on the people in the organizations. You hinted to it a little bit just because your passion is clear that the people are kind of your focus. How did you fall into that then if your training was kind of the baby boomer pill that everybody took?

Right. It's pretty much because I personally couldn't fit nicely into a box. I had a number of different roles. And I realized that those requirements on a job posting would never fit me. They just would never fit me because my mix of education, finance, business, theology, Californiaism— I'll just throw that in. If you want to know more about that, you'll have to arrange a 30-minute session with me. But what I saw was that there was this great opportunity for individuals to pursue what they really believe in and what they've— I put in quotes— always wanted to do. And it was just tragic for me. I live in an area that's a I live in upstate New York. And in my opinion, it was tragic that 53, 55-year-olds were retired, contributing to their community, to their society, and not feeling like they deserved or they could pursue their hobby of, I don't know, being a landscaper or making pots or whatever it is. And I just said, you know, there's just a huge opportunity and just a wealth of passion and interest in each of us. And shouldn't there be a vehicle for expression? And it just so happens that I was trained in business. So I use business as that vehicle. But let me just clarify something. They were not 3 dozen of my own businesses. These were people that I worked with.

Yeah.

students and other people around.

Yes, it's so— what you were talking about is so interesting because I had read a book about— and I'm trying to remember for the life of me what the title of the book is. So, you'll have to forgive me. But the story went something like, a lady's father died and she was doing at the eulogy. She was saying, my father loved music. He loved listening to music. He had a piano. He kind of liked. But he always said he wanted to learn better. He wanted to be a better musician. He wanted to do it. And she finished off her thing saying that he died with the music left inside him.

Yeah.

And to me, that was so powerful because how many of us have dreams that we set aside because we're so ingrained in our businesses? We're so ingrained in our jobs that we don't have the opportunity then to Really let the music inside us out.

Right. And there's another consideration is that in the old days, I mean, your father, my father, my grandparents picked a job and they stayed with it for their whole career. And now that's not the way we live anymore. We move around every 7 years, but it's just not the way we live, especially with the economy and the factors, the externalities of the economy change so very quickly. It's important to be nimble and dynamic.

Yeah.

There's a lot of opportunity. That's the other thing is that there's a lot of opportunity. The growth of incubators, the SBA availability, Small Business Association, I know you're up there into our Northern, our northern neighbors. But, you know, you probably have the same kind of thing. But the SBA money is there, and it really is the little guy who holds together communities, who then gets, you know, Pac-Manned up, snarfed up by the larger businesses to help them grow. But, you know, there's just a lot of opportunity.

Yeah, and it's so funny that you mentioned that because in this podcast, in this YouTube podcast, we have talked so much about the contributions that small businesses make, not only to the economies but to their communities as well.

Yes.

And so, it's interesting that you mentioned that. Startups have a unique opportunity. They tend to be super nimble. They tend to be super focused on doing what they do best. What are some of the big mistakes that you saw business operators making when it came to their startups in reference to their people?

Across the board, lack of delegation and trust. No, I have to do it. I have to do the spreadsheet. I have to go meet with the suppliers. I have to appear on a podcast. I have to do it all. I'm the founder. We can only do what I want to do, and I have to do it. So delegation was probably the most, the most common problem. Inability to realize that if you— it has to do with delegation, communication too. And it just doesn't even have to be employees. It's suppliers, it's partners, contractors. This is, this is what I see. Taking the time to do strategic planning. Because too often we get sucked into, using your term, the cauldron of crisis. Where we have to put out a fire here, there, or whatever. And we think, oh, I couldn't possibly take the time to train this person to start taking over. The other part is sort of, I believe, is a lack of perspective. Founders and entrepreneurs are deep divers into the thing they love and the thing and the vision that they have. And so, poking their head up and say, whoa! Well, what's going on in the world? Or what do my people have to offer? Really takes a kind of discipline that maybe only comes with a little failure.

Yeah, no, and it's so interesting that you said this because I think startups are unique in that, especially now within the age of minimal viable product where you launch and then you make iterations and you fix quickly and you move forward and you keep pushing.

Right.

And so, a lot of these teams are super lean at the beginning. But then, if you have 3 to 5 people who are part of this startup and they're all responsible for different things, all of a sudden now the person who is responsible for marketing needs to hire people and needs to then delegate. And then, you have the ego behind, well, these people don't do it the way I wanted to Right. But yet, there is only so many hours in a day they have to be able to delegate. And it was so interesting because again, in a different episode, we talked about the need for business owners to take a step back. I think one of my guests defined the difference between small business and entrepreneurship is small businesses, they've bought them. They are working themselves in a— they've hired themselves in a job. Whereas an entrepreneur has got systems and methods in place that they're able to step back and let the business run itself.

Yeah, interesting. I hadn't heard that definition before.

Yeah, I thought it was interesting.

But let's take that notion of startups and entrepreneurs and kind of go back to this key people indicator. You said key personnel and I know that's where we started. But the more I thought about it, I said, think of all the people around you. You know, broadly, the person who cleans your office, your partner, the one that says or used to say, goodbye, honey, in the morning, and you left the house and now it's goodbye, honey, and you go to another room or maybe a little nook. But that partner who experiences your ups and downs the same way you do, and yet they still hang in, right?

Yes.

And what about your suppliers? What's your relationship with your supplier? Do you know their birthdays? Do you know what's important to them? Do you know what their drivers are? Same thing with your contractors and your employees.

Yeah.

And, you know, there's a whole series of questions and little things that you can do, whether you are the owner of the company or you're the supply manager or you're a VP or wherever you are, to make a real difference in your relationships. You talk, Marc, a lot about love and care and service. service. To me, right now, as we look at both the microcosm of our own communities, getting vaccines, people getting sick, everybody knows someone, 1 or 2 degrees of separation at least, who has passed away from this pandemic. Isn't love and care as important as how much money you're putting in the bank?

Hmm.

I mean, money is important, but at the end of the day, when you're hurting because your partner has just died, Or your dog has to go to the vet for something horrible. Money's not going to do it. It's another person.

Yeah.

And the other thing that's—

Sorry, I'd love to dig a little bit deeper into the role that people have in an organization's success. And we'll get to that right after this.

When the spotlight shines on your business, are customers applauding or yawning? In other words, how is your business performing? Make your Make your business a star with a new book, Lights! Camera! Action!, Business Operational Excellence Through the Lens of Live Theater by Marc Haine. Marc uses his business and acting experience to help you see your business like a live show so you can create a performance your customers will never forget. Buy Lights! Camera! Action! today at your favorite online retailer or directly at marchaine.com.

Welcome back. We are talking with business consultant Gene Howard. Jean, in past episodes, we have talked about the importance of having a strategic plan in place for the business, for the business to be successful in order for the business to have a roadmap. How important is it to include some sort of allocation in those plans for one's people? I'm speechless because we're talking about the other KPI, right? We're talking about the people indicators. So, when somebody's putting this strategic plan together now, how much of an effort should they be putting in to plan out what their key people indicators are?

Well, I think it's essential. Again, because at the end of the day, well, we thought we were going to make widgets and now we're going to make something completely different. And people have to know that they are— that there is a loyalty there, that there is a bond, that there is a trust that we're going to get through this together. Along with that, planning KPIs, I'm sure you've talked about this. It's really important that key people are involved and that there is a transparency. Nobody knows the customer better than the salesperson or the consultant who's on site. And it's critical that those people are really engaged. I also think, you know, there are a ton of tests out there, Marc. You can get DiSC. You can get the 5 Predictive Behaviors. You can go through the Myers-Briggs. I mean, it's just many, many different tests. But at the end of the day, it's about your people's satisfaction.

Yeah.

that they— you do care about them, that you care not just about their business role, but that you care about them. And so, I think it's really important that that's worked into your strategic plan and that you identify the different roles that are there. And I'm going to go one step farther. And that is, I don't believe it's just human resources' role to do that. It is my job as a manager, your job as the CEO, to really understand what's going on with your people, whether your employees, your suppliers, etc. Everyone in your whole ecosystem.

Yeah. Well, it's interesting that you said that because of course, that was my next question is, isn't this the role of human resources? I know that there are people who run their businesses. And if it comes to anything people, it's like, okay, well, that's HR. This is my responsibility. So, this idea now that actually, I've looked at human resources as being kind of more of the leadership coach rather than the people manager. But I still know that there's a lot of people out there where somebody's sitting in their boardroom, or somebody's in an executive meeting and they say, okay, we'll just pass it off to HR. Comments?

Many, many, many companies do that. And I don't think that it is effective. HR has a role. There are lots and lots of policies and legalities That HR needs to manage and needs to make sure that the company is complying with. And sure, if you want all your employees to go to HR with any kind of problem and then have that HR representative translate the problem for you, you can do that. But how sad. That would be like my going to my mother-in-law to tell her my problem with my husband and her trying to explain to my husband What I'm saying. Obviously, a business is not that intimate as a marriage. But my point is, why not just do it directly? And you would say, well, what about time? Well, guess what? You set the tone of the culture in your business. You set the tone. Is your door open? Not all the time. Nobody could have their door open all the time for people to come in and talk to them. But are you approachable? Do you care? Do you care?

Yeah. And it's so interesting.

Human resources is great.

In my book, I talk about the need to change from this idea that we have this industrial age mentality when it comes to annual performance reviews. And really, at the end of the day, that doesn't cut it anymore. That we really need to have, if you're an owner of a company, your managers must be sitting down with their teams Individually, they need to be the coaches. They need to be the mentors to help people move forward so that people, the people who are working for you understand that you care about them.

Right.

And it goes back to what we talked about just earlier about how people in business school now are thinking more along the moral aspect of what they do, not just the financial aspect of what they're doing.

Right. We cannot afford to Yeah. To ignore the moral part and the moral compass of any— I mean, whether it's environmental, ethical, discrimination, huge. And we're all— I mean, all of us are challenging who we are. But I want to go back to sort of the indicators here for a minute because we've kind of gone into motherhood and apple pie, which I love. I always love that apple pie. But, but there is a way of setting up some sort of measurement or metric. I'm, I'm a bit loath to talk about metrics because that indicates a quantitative measurement. But in your company, you can create indicators. How late people— how often are people late? Is there energy Monday morning when people come to work, or is it just You know, drudgery. How quickly do they leave? I mean, again, this is sort of symbolically, how quickly do they leave at 5 o'clock on Friday? I realize that's an anachronism now that we all work from home. But what is their interaction? Are they talking positively about your company and encouraging people to do business with you or come and work there? And that's perhaps not limited just to your employees, but it's your suppliers. What are your suppliers saying about you? You know, what are those contractors who come in and do a variety of things that you aren't paying an employee to do? What are they saying about you? Are you treating people fairly? Do you think they're not being treated fairly? So, that's one aspect of it. Another aspect of it is, Are you using the people or not using? I don't like that term. But are the people in your community, in your ecosystem, in the best role for them? If they're in the best role for them, they're probably in the best role for you and for your business. So how do you evaluate that? And how do you set up periodic measurements? that aren't just those tests like Myers-Briggs or 5 Predictive Behaviors, etc. StrengthsFinder. They help. But they're not everything.

Exactly. And it's so interesting that you're saying this because what you've done is you've just bridged. And I want to make a point of this that when we talk about key people indicators, we're not just talking about our immediate team. We're not just talking about necessarily just the people who are working on our shift or in our business. We're talking more globally than that.

Right. That's right. And it even goes beyond your business to your community. How are you serving your community? How does your community perceive you? And some of that is one-on-one. But some of it is also what you're doing. And I'm not suggesting that you take your profits and necessarily dump them into the community. It is everything from giving employees, giving employees a day off a month to go work on something they really care about.

Sure.

It's getting credit for that. And, you know, your name or your business is on that, you know, that gala invitation or that poster. But really what it's about is keeping your people happy. They feel purposed, right? Abundance with purpose. And it's, it's helping your community. These days, you know, it's really interesting. We have a global economy, right? Except with COVID and the shutdown and the quarantining, I think people have realized even more that it's not just about my global customers, my global suppliers. It's about what's going on in my community. How am I putting— how are my employees and all the people in my ecosystem spending their money in my community? How is my community interacting outside of my own little microcosm? How is my community interacting with me? So, that's another aspect of looking at the key people indicators. What is important to them?

Right.

One way of doing that is matching gifts. You give $1,000 to your food bank. Me, my company will give $1,000 in recognition of you, the employee who has funded that. That's only one way.

Mm-hmm.

And Marc, we can talk about the big ways that companies make themselves known, sort of socially responsible. But this is a culture that starts from the lowest levels or the entry point for people to come work for you all the way up to your suppliers, your vice presidents, the owner. It is a culture. It's not a thing. And that's KPI. It's a culture. It's not a number.

It's not enough. It's not a, oh, here's a checklist thing that we have to do this month. Let's just check it off and have a good culture. I do know that some operators, some small operators would be watching this or listening to this and saying, well, that's great for the bigger companies. I'm just a small fry. I'm an owner-operator. I have 5 employees. I don't have a lot of money. So, that's good for them. But that's not realistic for me. What would you say to somebody like that?

I would say, okay, let's tell me all those things that those big companies do. Okay, you don't feel comfortable doing any of those. All right, tell me all the ways that you interact with your community.

You.

Maybe you go to work, you go home. Maybe you go upstairs to your office and you go downstairs and eat and sleep and that's it. Okay, then we expand it out. What about your frontline people, your lieutenants, etc.? And just look at what people are doing and say, look, it's time, money, resources. That's all we have to play with, frankly, in business.

Mm-hmm.

So, what is it? What can you give? What can you let your people give? What if somebody who is just passionate about food security were able— what if you were to give that person a half day off a week? Maybe that's a lot. Maybe it's a half day off every 2 weeks to go work in the food bank. What if? What do you think that person would come back to you with? Because That what they, what they then contribute to you is way beyond those 4 hours or those 8 hours a month that you've given them off. So it's thinking outside the box. And it's also saying, all right, if you don't have time, is there something that you could give up and take off your plate to make time? What I find is people are so intense about being successful, they can lose perspective. And that's what we do, Marc. We come in and we talk to somebody. And sometimes, it's for one session. Sometimes, it's walk with them for a whole year or multiple years and say, guess what? We're your perspective keepers. We keep you on track for your values and for what you want to accomplish in a big way.

Yeah, and a lot of times when we think about the contributions that business make to their communities, people automatically go to the financial. It's the fundraisers. People are coming to me for this and that. And so, I'd like to dig a little bit deeper and have a bigger conversation I think about what business owners can do to contribute to the community that doesn't include finances. But first, before we do that, could you just let everybody know how they can get in touch with you?

All right. Well, let's see. Someplace on the screen there was— you can email me very easily. You can go to my landing page and sign up for a time for us just to chat. But if you don't want to chat, that's fine too. I'll put you on my mailing list. You can find me on Twitter. It's @Griffin_JH. You can find me on Facebook where Griffin Fletcher, which is my business, I have a business page. If you like, you can join my private group which is called Abundance with Purpose. Just drop a note in Facebook and you'll find me. And of course, I am out there on LinkedIn. Isn't everybody? So, you see my name, Jean A. Howard. There's a lot of Jean Howards in this world. So, make sure you find me.

I'll make sure to put— make sure it's all going to be in the show notes that people can just scroll down. And click on the links there. I hope this is making sense and is of value to you. Please go ahead and feel free to give a thumbs up and share your comments or questions in the comment box. And as always, if you do find that you're listening to this and you go, wow, you know, this is something that I'm doing right now. This is really good information. And I know somebody who could really use this information.

Hmm.

This is time that you share it. That's how you become powerful to your community. is by sharing it with people you know can use the information. That's how we can contribute a very small amount of energy to make sure that the people around us can benefit from what we're learning as well. You know, Jean, I can bet that some of the audience is watching this now and feeling really overwhelmed by everything that we've talked about.

Yeah.

And probably, they need some real concrete strategies. And I'd like to get into those strategies, but I'd like to do that right after this.

When you're delivering an important speech to a huge audience, it's easy to lose your place or go way over time. Give yourself an advantage with the Pro Speaker Presentation Speech Timer app. No more checking your watch or calling for time. The Pro Speaker Presentation Speech Timer app keeps you on track with easy-to-see timers, even changing color for visual prompts during your speech. And you can set audio Audio cues to practice or set it to vibrate so you don't even have to look. Be the pro you know you are. Download the app at speakerpresentationtimer.com.

Welcome back! So, Jean, for those business managers who have been listening to all this and knowing that it makes sense and that you've already given some initiatives. And it's so funny because as you were talking about it, I reflected back on a business that I came across in Montreal. I took my mom to a restaurant called Dans le Noir. It is in the dark. And it was a restaurant that you ate completely in the dark. You couldn't see anything.

Wow!

It was stressful because you went through the whole meal like this, just trying to get any kind of light. You couldn't see a thing. And what was really cool about it was they hired people who who were diagnosed as being clinically blind. Those were their servers. And I thought, wow, if that's not a contribution to a community, what is?

How cool is that?

That's awesome! Because they mentioned and they say, our blind servers. And I thought, when they say blind servers because they're in the dark. No, no. They actually went to the Association for the Blind and they screened and trained servers to work in their restaurants.

Yeah.

And then, we know, I know that locally here, we have all sorts of programs to help people get back to work. And we help people who are maybe underprivileged or people who have some sort of challenge that would preclude them from doing what we call a normal job. And by the way, normal is just a setting on the dryer, right? So, Are there specific components that we haven't talked about that managers need to include in the practice of their key people indicators?

Well, you just hit on something, which is thinking very creatively and very broadly. I mean, Lucy Mulcahy, who was the former CEO of Xerox, said, and we have all quoted it. time or another that people are the greatest assets, you know, their business greatest assets. But okay, great. Are you living that way? Are you doing that? So I would just challenge people, you don't have any time, but certainly there's some shutdown time where you're driving, or maybe you're emptying your brain over television or a movie or something. And the kind of questions that you should ask are really just 4 questions. Who are the people in your ecosystem, in your business ecosystem? Why do they matter? What roles do they play? And, you know, not for the first time around, but are they playing the right role? What matters to them? What matters to them? Do you know? Do you even know what matters to them? Do you know that the guy that sits next to you or used to sit next to you has a sister with MS and he gives all of his extra time and money into the MS Society? Do you know that? So know it. And then what can you do with them, for them, to develop a deeper relationship? So those are just questions that you ask. And then finally, how do you measure that for your business or for what you want to accomplish? And then, as you know, Marc, there's the don'ts. There's the dos. There's the don'ts. Don't abandon your key performance indicators. Don't abandon those numbers that you're looking at every week, or every month, or even every day. They still need to be there. Maybe you can scale it back. But do add a dimension of people. You know, 3 people. If you have a large company, 3 people I'm going to make a point of talking to today. Even if you've never talked to them. You know, management by walking around, right?

Mm-hmm.

Don't forget those groups of people who really make your business work, who are not particularly— I use the word sexy. That's probably not a PC word, but it's the people who are emptying your wastebaskets or cleaning the walkways or making sure that there are light bulbs. When you run into them, take a minute. Say hello to them. How are they doing? Hey, how's your mother? I mean, they're just people. So, the nighttime cleaning staff, the partners of your employees. And I'm not saying you need to go to everybody's kid's Little League game or stuff like that. I'm just saying, take an interest. Finally, don't leave it all to human resources. However introverted you are, wherever you are on that Myers-Briggs, People understand. You need to know and want to know what your employees and what the people in your ecosystem are thinking about your business. So, give them an ear. Make yourself approachable however you need to do that.

Yeah.

It's just little hints. I mean, there's lots of things. Develop a feedback group, a feedback loop, 360s, institute 360s, etc. It may not be right for you. I can't give that checklist because every company has its own culture.

Yeah, it's so nice that we have Kathleen and Anna who just laid out some comments. Anna just said that she just requested to join Abundance of Purpose on Facebook. So, that's really grand. And Kathleen is going to be working with you. You're going to be doing something with her entrepreneurship students coming up. So, that's exciting as well.

She's an awesome educator, yes.

I would say that there would be a 5th one that is actually absolutely crucial in the list that you gave. And that is this idea that we cannot do it alone.

Amen! Yep, right.

So, you and I had a conversation just before we started. We talked about this idea about leaders having to delegate the responsibility of Getting to know the team. And how much of the team do you think needs to be included when it comes down to recognizing the nighttime cleaners, or the dishwashers, or the window washer person, or your suppliers? How does a leader bring that team together to create this program?

That's a good point. I don't have a magic bullet on that. I just I would say it starts, you know, there's an old saying, fish stink from the head, right? The leaders are modeling the behavior and it's catching. It's the law of attraction. You do something, other people, wow, that's something, I'm going to do it too. It's hard. It's not an easy step. You have a lot on your mind. There are a lot of pressures and a lot of stresses these days. But just little by little, you would be amazed. And you can't do it alone. You cannot know everybody and know their birthdays and their children's names and stuff. But collectively, you can know each other. And it becomes a big webbed network. And by the way, you never know who's going to be your boss tomorrow.

Oh, that is so true. That is so true. I have to share a story with you. And I apologize if it's Long-winded. But I was a dishwasher when I was 14 years old. And it was for a Greek restaurant. And the chef was an absolute bull. Like, he would yell and scream at me all the time. And every time I went to work, I was so stressed. And here, I had a whole bunch of nice clean dishes sitting there ready to give to him. And a sales rep was waiting to talk to him after the rush. And a sales rep thought it would be cute if he went like this. Down the sides of the dishes. And I thought he was so hilarious. Well, of course, I had to rewash all those dishes and I was mad. Well, about 10 years later, I had my own restaurant. And what do you think sales rep walked into my store wanting to do business with me? Right? So, we have to be very cautious that sometimes the people who we are leading today could be leading us tomorrow.

Right.

Go ahead.

I was just gonna say, I think that that's a hard lesson to learn. And every— I know that I burned a very important bridge when I was young in my career right out of business school. And that anyway, it still stings. I wish I could make it right. But I can't. And I just Took that learning and moved forward. I want to say one other thing, Marc, kind of in closing, but not totally in closing. Everything we do is out of love or fear. That's pretty profound. If you think about everything, the comment that you make to, I don't know, your car washer, the comment you make to somebody whose dog has just pooped on your lawn, Is it love or is it fear? Think about that. It's pretty profound.

Sure it is.

Yeah. Even in business.

And that's a good way. That's a great test model because, and it might not be fear of a situation. But maybe, it's fear of loss of reputation. Maybe, I know a lot of managers out there. And in fact, I did an episode called, Are You the Bully You Hate? Where people just feel that they need to that they need to dominate other people for fear of not having that power, not holding on to that power.

Yeah.

You know, in what we've been talking about today, one of my fears is that there are certain people who will look at this and this becomes the next shiny object. And that they want something quick and they want to put a band-aid on it. And they want to say, that way they could turn around and say, okay, checklist. I've done it. And that's not what we're talking about today. Are there any cautionaries about looking at key people indicators and putting programs in place? Are there any cautionaries that operators should be considering?

Yes, and that is don't try to put all sorts of quantitative metrics on it. This is not a quantitative kind of indicator program. This is Qualitative. And if you find that you just can't do it, you don't have that particular gift to interact with people, you're just hideously shy or introverted, fine. Just work with somebody else to, you know, to start spreading that word or do it just a little bit at a time. You're not going to change your culture. You're not going to enhance however you measure this. overnight. It has to grow from within. And you can lead it whether you're a department head, whether you're managing one person, entrepreneur, etc. It's amazing how people respond. Amazing!

Yeah. And you know, you just hit another nail on the head is you don't have to be the leader to do this. There is such a thing called moral leadership as well. And again, in my book, I talk about how somebody in a in an office was a moral leader. Everybody looked up to this particular woman and she drove and she brought people together just as an— it was in her nature of how she did it. And she was lucky that she had a leader that had such high humility that he wasn't threatened by it.

Right.

And so, it was really interesting. And then, Anna has a comment. She said, oh, not that I can see her comment now. But she said that she started working at a countryside golf And she's since then made sure that outside and inside staff get together for lunch as one team. And how cool is that?

Awesome!

That you're bringing people together. And again, in hospitality, we have front of house versus back of house. In big organizations, we have departments sided against departments. People are going, oh, finance doesn't know what we're doing. And finance is sitting there going, oh, management doesn't know what they're doing. And so on. Right? And so, being able to bring people together and share it is so important. It's so important.

Right.

As we wrap up, because you and I could talk about this forever. Like, I mean, you and I like 2 weeks ago spent like 2 hours on the phone just talking about this. This has been so great. Could you just remind everybody how they could get a hold of you? And you mentioned an offer.

I did. I would like anybody who's interested, I'd like to give you 30 minutes of chatting, seeing how you might look at key people indicators or talk about anything else that's going on with your business. And you can get in touch with me, I think, at 123bestpeople.com or my website, which is Gryphon Fletcher, G-R-Y-P-H-O-N F-L-E-T-C-H-E-R dot com. And if you get in touch with me, I'll tell you what that means. It's kind of obscure. There's no Griffin. There's no Fletcher. But it is it is sort of symbolic, shall we say? But one two three best people dot com is probably the easiest thing to remember. And if you just want to email me or Facebook me, it's easy to find me on Facebook. Send me a message.

Nice! And so, I would challenge everybody who is listening to this. At the very least, email her and find out what the heck does Griffin Fletcher have to do with her business. But that's really all the time that we have for today. Jean, again, thank you so much. I really appreciate you being here to share your knowledge, your passion, and your expertise. So, thank you.

It was my pleasure. It's been a pleasure. I hope I can come back, Marc.

I'd love to have you back. It'd be awesome.

Great! And to your listeners, take care. Be kind.

Love what you do. Thank you so much. Why don't you give me a thumbs up if this was of value to you? As always, my offer stands. If you would like 30 minutes of my time to brainstorm your business with you and your team, please feel free to book yourself on my online calendar. The link is down below. It's the one marked meetme.so/MarcHaine. And as always, I am at your service. And if you haven't done so yet, why don't you go ahead and hit the thumbs up button and the subscribe button. Ring that bell! That'll give you first dibs whenever I bring you the fresh content each and every week to help you work on your business, not just in your business. My name is Marc Haine. I hope that you stay safe, stay healthy, and dare to be the exception.