How to Attract the Top 10% Talent you Need for your Business with Bill Humbert

Imagine if your business could attract the top 10% performers in your industry. What would that look like for you? We are hearing time and again that companies cannot find the qualified candidates they need to run their businesses. Yet, they refuse to change their recruitment process to become more successful. And that's what we're talking about today on Experience Leadership.

Welcome to Experience Leadership, a podcast that challenges small business owners and entrepreneurs just like you to dare to be the exception. Join our host, customer experience expert Marc Haine, as he uncovers relevant and timely content to help you script and direct your business and teams to create jaw-dropping experiences your customers and staff deserve. Here is the host of Experience Leadership, author of Lights! Camera! Action!, customer experience expert Marc Haine.

Welcome to today's episode. My guest will be talent attraction consultant Bill Hambert. We will be talking about the difference between attracting candidates and acquiring talent. We'll talk about what needs to change in the human resource role even if you don't have a human resource department. So, stay with us. If this is your first time being with us, I'd like to say welcome. If you find this episode valuable, please go ahead and check out our past episodes. You will find them chock-a-block full of value. So, thank you so much for investing your time with us today. Isn't it frustrating that you put all this time and effort into recruitment drive trying to get the best people possible only to get bits and dribbles? Where are all the great people and why aren't they applying? So that brings us to our Question of the Day. How challenging is it for you to find the talent that you need? I'd love to hear your experiences. Go ahead and share this episode on your favorite social media platform. Remember to hashtag it #ExperienceLeadership. I look forward to reading your comments and of course, your questions. My guest for this episode is known as the Recruiter Guy. Bill Humbert is Google's number 1 ranked talent attraction consultant with over 40 years of experience helping businesses attract the talent that they need. Bill travels the world speaking about transformational talent acquisition at conferences and meetings with his signature program, Make Your Company Roar: Recruit, Onboard, Actuate, and Retain Your Top Talent. He is a 3-time published author with his most recent book, Expect Success: The Science of the Over-50 Career Search. receiving 5-star accolades from all over. Bill, welcome to the show. It's so great to have you here.

And Marc, I'm tickled to be here too. This is fun for me.

Maybe you could tell us a little bit about how you serve your clients.

Well, anytime you work with a client, you should have a process. And I have a process. I find out what it is that they're currently doing. what it is that they feel is a problem. And then, we work together to solve that problem. So, that's the baseline what I do. And what I generally find is that most companies go about recruiting the wrong way.

Oh, and that's what we're going to be talking about today. I'm so thrilled to get into it. You know, I remember reading a report back in 2015 that said that by 2030, In our province specifically, I'm in Alberta, Canada. In our province that we would have over 156,000 job vacancies, not enough people to fulfill the jobs. And these numbers were mimicked in jurisdictions all over North America. But it really feels like the pandemic brought that reality so much quicker and made it so much more now than a future projection. Is that what you're seeing in the marketplace as well?

You know, I see some of that recovery happening, but there's still more jobs open right now than there are people that are qualified to fill them.

Mm-hmm.

And that's probably going to continue. You know, the baby boomers, the guys with the gray hair like mine, are beginning to retire in a wholesale manner now, and that's taking a lot of talent and knowledge out of companies. And it's not necessarily being replaced by the younger workers.

Right. So, we're talking specifically about recruitment. We're talking about talent acquisition. Why is this particular topic so important in our almost post-pandemic era?

Well, you read everywhere where companies feel like they cannot find the right people. And, you know, in my experience as a recruiter, people surround us every day. You can talk to my wife and she'll tell you, don't ever sit down with Bill at a table for a meal at an airport because he may be looking at you, but he's listening to that conversation behind him. And so, I've literally recruited people from the table behind me at an airport.

Wow.

Wow.

What's interesting, we'll get deeper into it. It had nothing to do with you reviewing that person's resume, which is really interesting, which I think is interesting. So, you know, when we're thinking about this idea of talent attraction and acquisition of talent, is this a people problem or is this a process problem, do you think?

It's probably a combination of the two, Marc. It's a big process problem because the wrong people are doing the recruiting.

Okay.

And it's a people problem because interestingly enough, most people do not know how to conduct a career search. And during 2020, during the pandemic, so from March 15th, 2020 to December 31st, I helped 32 professionals find new jobs, accept the offers, and start their jobs. And almost all of them had no clue that they were in a sales process.

Interesting. Very interesting. So then, you're not only just acting as a recruiter on behalf of companies. You're helping candidates find the position or their dream jobs.

I am. Generally, it's when I'm not busy recruiting for a company.

Okay.

And so I just pivot the other way.

Yep.

And, you know, it's really— you just have this experience with people. Either they lack confidence or they don't know they're in a sales process. And then plus, once they find out they are, they don't like it. But the bottom line is that I coach them to network their way into a position, and that way they're avoiding a lot of the process that screens them out.

Right, right. And we'll talk about some of the processes because some of the processes that screens them out are really handicaps for the corporations or for the organizations that are doing the recruiting. You mentioned in your notes to me about your most challenging recruitment gig. Was it MCI?

Yeah, MCI was fun. I lived in North Central Maryland and MCI's offices were in Pentagon City, Virginia. It was only a 76-mile one-way commute. from my house to their offices through some of the best traffic DC had to offer. And I was telling somebody earlier, you know, there was more than one morning I was on the GW Parkway next to the Potomac and looking out, and the crew teams from George Washington and Georgetown were going faster than me on the GW Parkway.

Wow.

And we had to recruit a minimum of 120 IT professionals to Cedar Rapids, Iowa, In 12 months, starting with none, except that they were trying to transition the organization out there. But DC has jobs that are unique to DC. And a lot of the spouses or significant others worked in those jobs, working for the White House, working for Congress, Supreme Court. You don't get those jobs everywhere. And ultimately, only 10 people moved from Pentagon City to Cedar Rapids, Iowa, 10 employees. And that meant we needed to recruit 110 new employees in 12 months. And I created the recruiting strategy and we would go the last 2 weeks of every month. And I'd take a team of managers, 3 or 4 managers, depending on what cities we were going to. And we would interview. We'd stay at Embassy Suites. And so we would shut the bedroom door and then we'd keep the door of the unit open. That way it was open to the public walking by. And we'd sit at the table and we'd interview. And we interviewed 18 to 24 candidates every single day. Every night we made hiring decisions. And then once we made the hiring decisions, then I would send a note to human resources permission to extend offers for those positions. And generally, they knew what was going on. They knew how important it was because this was for commercial billing at MCI.

Mm-hmm.

And so, they would have somebody stationed there for those 2 weeks to respond to my email to give me the okay. And Marc, there were nights where a candidate during the day said to me, if you want to call me as late as midnight with an offer, feel free. And I did.

So cool! You know what you're talking about, kind of that whole system with MCI. It just brought a vision to my head of job fairs. When it comes down to recruitment, and I know that this is not even part of our notes. It's just something that occurred to me. But when it comes down to recruitment and attraction strategies, how important are job fairs? Are they reasonable? Have you had success with when you had these industry job fairs or community job fairs, that sort of thing?

Well, first of all, you consider a job fair as primarily a marketing exercise if you do it well. If you do it really well— so, I'm going to give you a secret. Now, Marc, you can't tell any of your viewers this secret because it's my secret.

Okay. So, hold on a second. We'll just make sure nobody's around. Okay, go. Okay.

I don't see anybody in my office.

Okay.

So, My secret sauce is to bring a manager with me from the group that's looking. Now, it does 2 things. One, it sees what happens when I spend an entire day at a job fair and what I'm going through and the people that I'm seeing. But the second thing it does is I always get to the job fairs early. And if I don't like where my booth is positioned, I go out and say, hey, I'm one of the first ones here. Can I get one of these booths up here or over there? And they go, yeah, what the heck? Nobody knows where they're going to be. And I never want it in that front row. I always want it back maybe 2 rows. And then the people have— there are fewer people coming by initially, and that way I'm able to Spend time with them. And the other thing that I do with career fairs is most times the table is set up along the aisle. And so I turn it and I use all real estate inside my booth and I welcome them in and get them out of the traffic. And then when I have a manager there, if it's somebody that looks sharp, I am mean. What I do is I introduce the person to the manager and I coach the manager earlier. And I say, if I introduce somebody to you that I think is really good, I want you to take them out of the hall and interview them either in a coffee shop or maybe in the lobby and get them out of the flow of traffic so nobody else can get them.

Right. Well, smart. And you're making that person, that candidate, the most important person on the trade floor. Right, at the same time.

Exactly, exactly.

I know that we're going to in our time together today uncover some really great tips and tricks as we move forward. But before we do that, I'd like to uncover some really bad recruitment practices that people that you've seen people do that have been really a handicap to them. And I'd like to do that right after this.

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Welcome back. I am speaking with sought-after keynote speaker and recruitment specialist Bill Humbert. Bill, I have seen in my experience, I have seen tons and tons and tons of really horrible, horrendous bad recruitment practices. What are some of the things that you really would like to warn people against that you've seen in your practice?

Well, since we were talking about job fairs or career fairs, one is whenever I go and participate in one before I get started, I just wander the aisles. And see who, if anybody, is my competition. And then what I do is I just watch what happens. And so often people from human resources are representing their companies, and instead of looking up and meeting people, they're sitting at that table that goes across the front of their booth and they're working on their computer.

I just—

I'm amazed. And one time in Salt Lake City out here, I was recruiting for Cache Valley Electric, the 16th largest electrical contractor. And I looked over in the other aisle and I could see the only electrical contractor that was in my competition, and he was asleep when the doors opened. And so what I did was I And I'd see people stop at his table and just kind of look confused and look around, and they'd look in my direction and I'd go— And I managed to catch a couple of people that way. So, that's one thing and one story, but there are a couple of other things about the process that really hinder companies from finding top talent. And the first one is over 40-plus years of recruiting, very few companies that I've worked with teach their managers how to effectively interview. And if you haven't been taught how to effectively interview, you certainly have not been taught how to select the best candidate. And that hurts diversity too, because that person's going to try to hire somebody who looks like them because they got to that position. And they figure, I need to get somebody to look like me to do the same. So, that's number one. Number 2, companies who require candidates to complete an application who are professionals to complete an application before submitting their resume, none of the 10%, top 10% are going to complete an application before there's a conversation. They want to establish mutual interest before they spend 20 or 30 minutes of their life completing an application and putting in it all the information that's in their resume anyway. And since I coach people, I'm sometimes known as the Candidate Whisperer. And those professionals tell me, as soon as I see I have to complete an application, I'm out of there. So, companies who force that on candidates are finding that they're getting the desperate candidates instead of the top talent. The other thing is, and so, you'll get a heads up. My Disrupt HR speech is titled Delete Recruiting from HR. And I'm not saying that HR is not a valuable organization. Their functions are very valuable. Think about it. Benefits, compensation, employee development, employee relations, culture, HR tech, and there are others. Everything except recruiting is an administrative or compliance task. Recruiting mirrors the sales process perfectly, line by line. When was the first time you ever saw a compliance officer Lead a company in sales?

Never. Never.

Never.

Yeah.

And that they're driving the best talent away. So what's left are the people who are desperate, and that's unfortunate.

So, you know, to your point, what I see based on this idea of having a compliance person, so your human resource person is, this is the person I need, here are the skills I need, and they're looking really doing a checklist. So, really within a compliance framework. But they're not looking necessarily at the zone of genius that people are bringing along for the ride.

That's right, exactly.

What role does job descriptions have when it comes down to recruitment and to actually knowing what you're looking for?

Well, most in my experience, most job descriptions are poorly written.

How so?

And well, they really don't Say what the job is or what truly is the experience or the skills that are needed. So, in many companies, what happens is, let's say, Marc, you were in a position in a company and let's call it project management. Throw a dart. And during the time you were a project manager, you elevated that role. And then you accepted another job or were promoted somewhere else in the company. And left that position, what happens in most companies? They pull out the old job description and they use it all over again. And they don't take into account how you improved that position. So, that's number one.

Yeah.

Number 2 is they use that job description in their applicant tracking system to screen out candidates. So, if you have a poorly written job description, you're hiring people versus that job description. And that means that you're hiring the wrong people.

Right. It's really interesting because I myself, or years ago, were filling out the online job application stuff and you'd have to fill out the criteria, right? And they might say you need an MBA as a criteria. And on the online application process, it says, do you have an MBA? And so, I click no because I don't have an MBA. Well, they don't even pick up the phone and call. And it's like, are you kidding me? You're saying that my 30 years of experience is going to be quashed by somebody who's just out of university with an MBA? Do you know what I bring to the forefront?

Right.

And so, what are the alternatives then to the way that we're typically now creating these systems? Because I mean, obviously, these AI-based systems that are there to find the perfect candidate are there to kind of get rid of the time it takes to review copious amounts of irrelevant applications. So, what can be done in its place?

Well, first of all, it's important to create a job description that accurately describes the job. And what I suggest that's very different, but what I suggest is that you create the 3-month, 6-month, 9-month, and 12-month goals for that position. And if you do that, both you and the candidates know exactly what's expected that first year. And you only need to put 3 goals for each 6 or 3-month period. At the end of the year, doing an annual review is a piece of cake because you know they made the goals. You know they didn't make the goals. They may have made some of the goals and you know why and why not. And I get a lot of pushback on that from my clients. But you know what it really means? They don't know what the job entails. And that's important. So, that also is key to the interviewing process because now you know what skills and experience the people need and you compare their experience and you create the questions during the interview for that. The second thing that happens is the ones that either have done it before or they haven't done it and it's not something they want to do, so they don't apply. So instead of getting 400 applications, You're getting far fewer. And so, then what happens is you bring them on board. You talk about the goals. And so, that renews the expectations. And all of your one-on-ones during the year mirror the goals. And that's where the discussions are.

I love it.

And so, one more thing, Marc.

Sure.

By definition, a goal-setting And goal-achieving employee is an engaged employee.

So, it has ramifications past the hiring and recruitment side. It sets the foundation for the level of engagement that this person is going to get when they join your company and move you through kind of the on— past the onboarding into the what I like to call the forever boarding aspect of the business.

Right. Yep, exactly.

Very cool. So, just to clarify, what is the difference between Recruitment and talent acquisition.

Talent acquisition is the administrative process where you're screening candidates out. And I had a Harvard MBA that I was coaching. And they were so frustrated because they weren't getting any phone calls. And it was a high-level position. They were eminently qualified. And that was the reason they hired me to coach. And I said, well, just for curiosity's sake, send me the last job description that you applied to and then send me the resume that you sent to that job description. And he did. And there is software out there called jobscan.co. And you can compare the job description and the resume and see what words are missing, for instance. And people call it artificial intelligence, but I call it artificial artificial intelligence because it can't even tell the difference between past tense and present tense of the same word. And so, if the job description is written in present tense and people write their resume in past tense, as they should, They get screened out.

Wow.

Well, this particular job description, for some mysterious reason, probably it was copied and pasted, the boilerplate. And at the bottom, it said high school diploma required. How many Harvard MBAs do you know would put high school diploma on their resume? None.

But to your point, I mean, this was probably a requirement for an entry-level job. And they wanted to make sure that people had the basic competencies that high school would afford them in order to come into this entry-level position. And to your point, this idea of copy and pasting without a strategy is really what hurt them, isn't it?

It is.

This is fascinating. Hey Bill, for anybody who is tuning into this and thinking, they would like to maybe get you on side to help them with their recruitment process, how can people reach you?

I'm really easy. I'm recruiterguy.com. And I do have a Calendly link on my homepage above the fold, Speak with Bill. And you can just set up a time and we'll talk.

Fantastic! We've talked a lot about some things that people are doing and kind of solutions to that. Do you have like some real good like top What are the 5 best practices that you think organizations should adopt in order to become much better recruiters?

Well, I'm gonna make a lot of enemies here, Marc. But the good news is small businesses will resonate because they don't have a human resource department.

Right.

Delete recruiting from HR. It's a sales process. Put it into— reorganize it into operations. Operations understands sales. Operations has sales managers. And so, if something's not working, operations can fix it.

Mm-hmm.

And it's really important for the managers to take responsibility for their own team, much like a coach does. Super Bowl's coming up here Sunday and the coaches are telling the GMs, I want this person. I want that person. And the GM's responsibility is to go out and get them for him.

Yeah.

And that's the same kind of responsibility that every hiring manager should have. Don't wait for some HR department to present candidates to you because it'll make you crazy. And go out and you'll find people through networking with people you used to work with. You'll find them through conferences that you go to. And it's surprising how many times that, you know, as a recruiter, I'll call somebody out of the blue even today and they will say, hey, I'm really interested. The other thing that, you know, I network too. I was looking for a COO for a small restaurant chain about 2 months ago, and I did some networking, found a woman that had a degree from the Culinary Institute of America.

Mm-hmm.

And a degree, an MBA from the University of Iowa. And she was a perfect fit. And I found her through networking.

Yes.

There were no job boards.

So, there are 2 things I want to unpack here. One is this idea that recruiting is like sales. I imagine some people would be watching this going, the guy's on crack. What do you mean it's like sales? Let's unpack what that looks like a little bit because I agree with you. I think like I do in my presentations, I have a thing called strings attached. where I take people through and I say people reach different milestones with us. And the very first milestone is this idea that people are prospects to our business. How does the recruiting process mimic sales? Or how do sales mimic the recruiting process?

Can I share my screen?

Maybe give it a try. Let's see what happens.

Okay.

Just know that the people who are listening to this on the audio podcast won't Right.

So, this demonstrates, and I don't know if you— there you go. This demonstrates that line by line, the recruiting process mirrors the sales process.

Okay. So, we're seeing the things like identifying needs. Yeah, absolutely. Proposal due diligence, cost negotiations. And so, to your point is you have like what sales, you have a need to fulfill and you have— you're looking for that solution.

That's right. And so, your job description, since you know what the need is, your job description is key to the whole thing. Because if you get the job description right, at least now you're on the right trail.

Right.

Because now you have something to measure everything against all the way through the entire process. And something that's really important that a lot of people don't realize, employee retention is part of the recruiting process. And it should be for a number of reasons.

Right. So, clarify that for me.

So, since we're in a sales process, the recruiter is a key to ensuring that the person that was hired is happy initially. And handles any concerns. And I do that all the time. So, how was your first day? Oh, it was pretty good. It was jam-packed but it was pretty good. And then Wednesday, I call. So, how was your third day? Yeah, I got some concerns. Well, now's the time to answer those concerns.

Yeah. And so, this is where I was saying this, like as I wrote my book, in one of the engagement parts of it is this idea that onboarding is a finite process. that says we have this process that we want to do. And then, when it's over, we're done onboarding. And I've always kind of pushed back at that. And that's where I came up with this idea. Let's go from onboarding to foreverboarding where the process doesn't stop.

Right. You're right. And it's all, you know, it requires both ways communication. So, that's important. And the employee retention is something that we're The recruiter can be, you know, down the road, just touch base and how's it going? And if it's not going really well, depending on your relationship with that hiring manager and whether that hiring manager is a top performer or not, you might be able to make some changes to change the perception of how things are going. More importantly, or as importantly, it's a great way of networking to find new people. So, who did you work with at your previous company?

As people are wanting to maybe listen to this and they're thinking, okay, I need to develop a better recruitment strategy to move forward because obviously what we're doing today doesn't work. And I'd like to get into some cautionaries about people doing that. And we'll do that right after this.

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Welcome back! I hope you are getting a ton of value from today's episode. As you can tell, Bill and I are super passionate about today's topic. If you belong to an organization that could use our help, Or you might be planning a leadership retreat or a conference. Why don't you go ahead and drop us a line and explore how maybe we can serve you? Because I know we'd love to explore how we could be of service to you and your people. Bill, one of the things you mentioned earlier was this idea that— and I think we talked about this before we went live— you get all these people, leaders who get promoted because they were really great at what they did. They were really great technologists. technicians. And then, we expect that they're gonna magically pick up the skills to become effective. What are your suggestions when it comes down to this idea of skill building for the leaders to be more effective in the recruitment process?

It's crucial. If they're not growing, the people below them are not going to grow either. That's kind of a bottom line.

Yeah, but would you say that like if somebody who gets promoted as a welder So, let's say he was a welder and he got promoted to become the shop foreman. Does he, because of the role he had before, does he have clarity on what he needs when he's recruiting the next person to maybe even take his old role?

Shoot, he doesn't have clarity on that. He doesn't have clarity on how to manage people. All the responsibilities of a manager, many times those responsibilities Take away the day-to-day work. And sales is a great example to use because a lot of companies decide that they want to promote their best salesperson to sales manager. Well, the skills that make them the best salesperson are sometimes the ones that work against them as a sales manager. And so, it's important no matter who it is or what industry it is When you promote somebody, it's important to make sure that they are introduced to new skills that they'll need to employ to be successful and to help their team be successful.

So, what you're saying bottom line is it is absolutely essential you train your new managers.

Exactly.

So, aside from that, when it comes down to putting together talent acquisition strategies, what are some of the things people need to avoid as they try to become better at it?

Probably, let's go back to the application. Push the application back until there's mutual interest. There's been a phone conversation or a Zoom conversation or a personal conversation. And the manager knows that they're interested in that candidate. And I understand the importance of an application. It's to ensure that the information that was given is correct and also gives the background company a track to run on to ensure that that information is correct. So that's really important. A lot of companies are not any longer doing reference checks, and I believe that's foolish because the reference check is going to help you determine whether a person is a cultural fit As well as a skill and experience fit. And Marc, 3 times over the last 40 years, and when you think about it, it's a lot, I've called a reference and said, so-and-so gave me your name as a reference. And that person burst out laughing. And one of them, after she stopped laughing, said, I fired her 2 weeks ago. I can't believe she used me as a reference.

But to your point, you do have organizations like you will get where you're calling up and say, yeah, I'm doing a reference check on this particular person. They're saying, oh, I'm terribly sorry. Our policy is that due to privacy that we can't discuss anything with anybody. And a lot of people I find at that point go, oh, okay. And they hang up. And it's like I stop them and I say, okay, just one question. Would you rehire them? And that's usually responded to with no.

Right, right. Or you can ask them, can I talk to you after hours? Nobody knows it happened.

Sure.

And what's more important than anything else, it's the manager who needs to do the reference check, not the recruiter. You know, you and I know that I'm a pretty good recruiter. However, The executive doesn't know that I'm calling. And so, if I call an executive and say, hey, I'm doing a reference check on this COO that we're recruiting, and that person is a CEO and I identify myself as a recruiter, we have— I can't get it in. We have an adult-child conversation because that person doesn't feel that I have the experience or the knowledge to accept whatever it is they're telling me.

Right.

But if a manager or another executive goes and has that conversation, now you're having an adult-adult conversation.

Gotcha.

And that is when they're gonna get the real dirt and the really good stuff.

So, it's about people being able to see eye to eye, right?

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah.

Yep.

Bill, this has been so fantastic. As we wrap up, do you have any last thoughts about what we've been talking about today?

Well, let's, you know, by definition, attracting people is better than trying to reach out and acquire them. So, if you attract top talent, more top talent is going to want to come to work with you because top talent likes to work with top talent, just as in pro football or basketball or any other sport, hockey.

Yeah. And there are so many different tools you could do that, right? I mean, just Leverage LinkedIn. Just reach out to, you know, post to your groups. Does anybody know? I'm looking for this. Does anybody know of anything? And all of a sudden, people are just going to be plugging other people's names in. Even if those people don't contact you, you now have a connection request.

Exactly.

This has been fantastic. Could you remind everybody one more time how they can get a hold of you, Bill?

I am recruiterguy.com. And if you want to talk with me, just click on Speak with Bill. It's above the fold on my homepage and I'd love to chat.

Okay, we'll make sure to put the link in the show notes as well. Bill, thank you so much. I really appreciate you being here to share your knowledge and of course, your passion and your expertise around recruitment today. This has been fan-friggin-tastic. So, thank you.

Thank you, Marc. It's been that much fantastic for me too.

If you have any questions about today's episode or would like a complimentary 30-minute brainstorming session with you and your team, feel free to book yourself on my online calendar. The link is down below. It's the one that is marked meetwith.marchaine.com. As always, I am at your service. I'm here for you. And if you haven't done so yet, why don't you go ahead and subscribe to this feed and make sure you follow me on social media. Every week, we bring you a new topic, with a new expert to help you move your business forward and create the show-stopping, jaw-dropping experience that your customers and your employees deserve. My name is Marc Haine. I hope that you stay safe, stay healthy, and I hope you dare to be the exception.

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