How to Stand Out from the Crowd: Show the World Your Leadership Expertise with Lisa Bragg

In this digital age where attention is currency, we're often told that it's the squeaky wheel that gets the oil. We need to be forever posting and be loudest to be seen and heard. But what if I told you that it's not about your volume but about your strategy? And that's what we're talking about next on Experience Leadership.

Welcome to Experience Leadership, a podcast that challenges small business owners and entrepreneurs just like you to dare to be the exception. Join our host, customer experience expert Marc Haine, as he uncovers relevant and timely content to help you script and direct your business and teams to create jaw-dropping experiences your customers and staff deserve. Here is the host of Experience Leadership, author of Lights! Camera! Action!, customer experience expert Marc Haine.

Welcome to this episode! I am your host, Customer and Employee Experience Strategist Marc Haine. Thank you for joining me today. My guest for this very special episode is the bragging expert. Yes, you heard me right. The bragging expert, Lisa Bragg. Today, we are diving into the underlying cultural norms and fears that prevent many of us from seizing the opportunities we deserve. We'll examine the critical differences between confidence and arrogance and offer actionable insights into becoming your own brand advocate. My one ask is that if you know someone who could use this information, please share the link to this episode. You know me, knowledge is power but only if it's shared. We've all had moments when we've watched someone else land an opportunity we knew that we were perfect for. It's frustrating and it's disheartening. But when it comes to talking about ourselves, it's incredibly challenging to strike the right balance between humility and self-promotion, especially when our skills and talents seem to go unnoticed. Today's episode is all about leveraging your unique value, breaking out of the shadows, and actively seizing the opportunities that you deserve. And that brings us to our Question of the Day.

How do you usually talk about your talents?

And what challenges have you had when doing so? I'd love for you to be part of this conversation. Go ahead and share this episode on your favorite social media platform. Hashtag it #ExperienceLeadership and be part of the conversation. Our guest today is nothing short of a game changer in the realm of personal and professional development. Lisa Bragg specializes in helping high achievers, be it entrepreneurs, professionals, or even entire organizations to not just be seen and heard but to also share their unparalleled value with the world. But she doesn't stop there. Lisa is passionate about empowering leaders to bring out the best in those who may be less visible on their teams. She's the author of the groundbreaking book, Bragging Rights: How to Talk About Your Work Using Purposeful Self-Promotion, Her roster of clients is as diverse as it is impressive, featuring top 100 financial services firms, governments, associations, and even not-for-profits. Lisa, welcome to the show. It's so great to have you.

Oh, Marc, I'm so excited to be on your show and I just love your enthusiasm cuz that's one thing of self-promotion is being enthusiastic. So, so many people aren't. So happy to feel your energy and be on the show today with you and your audience.

Well, thank you so much for that. Hey, before we get into today's topic, could you tell us a little bit about how you serve your clients?

Yeah. So I help my clients through keynotes and workshops. I come in and do deeper dives as an advisor. And for smaller groups within organizations, I'm what's called a professional mentor. I'll come in and do several programs with them to help them to be seen and heard. And it's often team-based and individual. So it's interesting to see Teams then become bigger and more important in the organization than maybe what they felt before. So, it's really exciting to see people glow. So, individual work, but mostly group and corporate work. So, love it.

I love it. So, today we're talking about this idea of giving oneself bragging rights. What is the biggest mistake business operators make when it comes to being seen and heard?

Well, so often we forget that we are also— we just put everything in for our business. And so, we're also our own brands. And so, there's 2 opportunities there. We think of only, let's do everything for the business. Or I am my title. I'm the CEO. I'm the VP. I'm the owner-operator. We do that without remembering that we're also a brand. And brand just is how do people talk about you when you're in the room, when you're not in the room? And so, that's all it is. And so, how do people talk about you, not just your company, but you? So that's one thing. And then also all the money that's left on the table because we're not willing and able to talk our stories first. We wait for somebody to ask us about our stories and tell us a story. It's like, no, be willing to and able to tell stories right away so that people can then know how you're here to serve. So I think those are 2 big, big things right away that I see that, gosh, the opportunities lost and the money then behind it. People make those mistakes.

It's gone. So why do you think people are so hesitant to take the spotlight, even when they have something valuable to offer? Like what's holding them back?

Marc, it's because we've been told, put your head down, do good work, and eventually someone will find you or somebody will select you or, you know, be so good they can't ignore you. Well, I am that good and they are ignoring me. And it's because we're toiling in that hidden gem world that we were part of in the factory era. But now we're in this imagination era. So we've gone, we have these social norms that are a hangover from a long distant past, past, but we still have them today when, you know, we're just hoping and all the different things that people will find us on our tiny piece of the internet. But hello, they're not finding me. So that's the big challenge is that we have been taught to not talk about our successes, not talk about ourselves. You know, always give credit away and all those things that mean that, well, why would I hire you? What would I do with you? You know, I'm going to go to the other person because they're, they're there. I can see them and people know them. So, it's a challenge for us to move past these old social norms into this new world that we're living in now.

I will tell you, I'll be 100% honest with you. You just described my MO down to a T. This whole thing of just doing You know, keeping your head down, just doing the work, and it's gonna be so good at some point, somebody's gonna recognize it and I'll become an overnight sensation after 10 or 15 or 20 years.

Exactly. And I, you know what, right here too, Marc, I wrote the book on it and I am a hidden gem often. And, you know, we hide, we're waiting, we don't wanna put ourselves out there all the time. It is a practice to do this. You're not gonna all of a sudden feel really good about it and wanna do it all the time. It's a practice over and over again that we get better. at talking about our successes. And then eventually the good thing is that other people start talking about your successes and refer you to people that you haven't even met. And that is at the pinnacle. And that's awesome. That is the thing we all want to happen is have those brand ambassadors be referable, all those things. But we have to give people that leg up, that help to get it going.

So I have to ask the question, you know, we were brought up not to brag. Right. I mean, I'm the last of the baby boomers. And so bragging was seen as a little bit of a sin. This whole thing of, you know, talking about yourself, even when you go into networking events now, they say, you know, people don't care about you. You have to be there to care about them. So the big question I have is, what's the difference between bragging and kind of this idea of self-promotion? Yeah.

So they actually go hand in hand. So bragging is defined as talking about your successes with pride. And pride also means self-love. So we have to change the idea where we get caught up. And I think it's because it's such a multisyllabic word. So big $5 or maybe now $50 word, as they'd say. It's self-aggrandizement. That's the word that really is that icky part. And that's where I'm better than you and look at all my wealth or my— look at all the things I've done. And it's that— that's the puffery that we don't like, where it's like, You know, me with my castle when it's not really my castle. So we really feel that ickiness when people start to do that. And that's what a lot of social media, we've seen that. It's like, ooh, that makes me feel, it's cringeworthy. A lot of it is context too. So we can get into that because if you're talking to people who all live in castles, then the expectation is you're going to talk about your castles. So, so much of what we talk about is in context, but we get confused with bragging and self-aggrandizement. Now, bragging is what is your success and being able to talk about it, but self-promotion, then it's the vehicle that takes it out in the world. So are you going to do podcasts with other people's audiences? And are you going to write a blog? Are you going to be on social media? Are you going to work through using your association's websites and connecting with people there? Is your self-promotion also just really emailing that one person that could change your life? So, it's really about the tactics where bragging in what I talk about is really more of the strategy and what you want to release out into the world.

I love it. And I'd love to dig a little bit deeper into the strategy in a little while. But in your consulting work, are there any common patterns or behaviors that you notice in people who are missing out on the opportunities? Like, is there anything that people— are people talking themselves out of it?

Oh, that's such a good question. They are talking themselves out of everything. And it's self-deprecation. We're taught You and I are both Canadians. I hope I'm not giving anything away to your audience, but—

Hey.

We're taught self-deprecation right away and putting ourselves down or passing the mic. And so those kind of things all the time, they're not good things to do. We do need to share the mic and make sure that voices who aren't usually at the mic do have a chance to be heard. But we also need to make sure that we are expressing ourselves and telling the world How we are here to serve. And so, I think we all the time, too much humility. People have gotten this idea that it's servant leadership, which is good. Yes, I'm here to serve my team and making sure that they are leading to the best they can. I'm here to serve my clients. But we've taken it, some of us, too far to think that I'm just supposed to be like the house staff, the butler, and I come in secretly and quietly and I do my thing. And then, I secretly and quietly walk out. I'm on standby and I'm not acknowledged. And that's not actually what it's about. And people think that it's this in-the-background attitude. No, you have to be seen and be heard, especially as a leader, and bring your team along with you. So, there are so many, we can go on and on with how we are taught to hold back. I think we also just hope that someone else will pick us. There's that Bruce Springsteen story a long time ago. So, everyone knows Courteney Cox because Friends had a rebirth in the last few years. And so the myth used to be that Courteney Cox was discovered with Bruce Springsteen. She— there was a big concert and he was doing a video, and all of a sudden she's dancing in the crowd and she's plucked from obscurity and gets to dance with this rock legend. I was gonna say at the time, but he is still a rock legend. So dancing on the stage with this rock legend, and so everyone thought that that was the start of her Fame and getting into Friends, but she was already a working actor before that. She was already going out for soap operas, on commercials. And so, she wasn't waiting to be picked or plucked. She was making her own opportunities. And so, so many of us get in the myth of, I'll just be there, and I'll— or she was at the right place at the right time, and that's the only way to get ahead, or it's all luck-based. It's like, no, no, no, you have to go out for the auditions. You have to do the work. And then let people know you're doing the work. And that's what her agent would be doing is amplifying for her. So that's just one way that some of the myths do keep us stuck where we are.

You mentioned how we might be leaving money on the table. I mean, could the fear of bragging or self-aggrandizing have long-term impacts on the growth and scalability of a business?

Well, I did international research for the book and talked to so many different, uh, people who are in corporate and entrepreneurs, and they said, Some people have reported to me that they know that they've lost millions of dollars because they weren't out there, first of all, advocating for themselves, and then also being willing on RFPs, so requests for proposals, or in business meetings to talk about their strengths. And then they saw them go to the next person and it was a mediocre person. So they knew they lost because they didn't tell them all of their wins, the stories that really mattered. to put them over the finish line because they were waiting for them to just see the body of work or waiting for them to eventually know, or don't they know? Like, we think people are going to be psychic and read our minds how we are here to serve, but really we have to help them out. And that's the foundation of the book.

Yeah, I can't wait. I can't wait to read it. There's so many things that you're hinting at at the moment, and we haven't gotten to strategy. So many things that I think I need to uncover myself. But I would like to get into some steps that we can take to maybe practice our bragging rights without feeling like we're overstepping. And we'll get to that right after this. When the spotlight shines on your business, are customers applauding or yawning? In other words, how is your business performing? Make your business a star with a new book, Lights! Camera! Action!, Business Operational Excellence Through the Lens of Live Theater by Marc Haine. Marc uses his business and acting experience to help you see your business like a live show so you can create a performance your customers will never forget.

Buy Lights! Camera! Action!

today at your favorite online retailer or directly at marchaine.com. Welcome back. I am speaking with bragging and self-promotion researcher Lisa Bragg. As you can tell, Lisa, maybe I don't brag about myself, but you know what? I'll hire somebody to do the voiceover and brag for me.

That's a great step. And you know, one thing is that when people read your bios, so when you're at an event or somebody reads your bio on a podcast, most of the time they've either written the whole thing themselves or they've given you the nuts and bolts to be able to do that. So when they say, oh, you've made me sound so good with all the awards I've won, it's like they actually wrote a lot of that.

They did.

So I know you rewrote it. You wrote your own from it. I did, yeah. So kudos to you. Thank you. But when you're at a lot of events and then the false modesty, oh wow, it's like No, no, no, they approved it. So just want to put it there.

It's like, were they talking about me after you had written the whole bio?

Stand in it, stand in it. Cuz then we wanna see how did you get there then instead of this false modesty? Like, no, no, no, own it, own it.

So before we get to strategy, let's talk a little bit about false modesty. You know, some people think that being humble is probably the strongest superpower, but you know, really from the direction you're going, you're saying, um, no, absolutely not.

No, it's not. Because so many of us, and I'm sure people who are listening to your show, we're too far. It's too far on the continuum. So if you reframe bragging to being, it's of service. Here is how I'm here to serve. And I know your opening card in the countdown had about service, but it's really how are we here to serve? When you reframe it by saying, you know what? Talking about my successes is really telling my audiences, my clients, my customers, How I'm here to serve. So it's actually a gift. And we're not talking about, you know, we're all of a sudden going to show our big bag of coins and things like that. No, we're not going to do that. That's the Instagram. That's the— that's not the way to do it. What we're going to do though, is tell people our successes so they know how to use us. We're going to talk about it in a way that they know our contributions. We're going to talk about it in a way that allows us to to claim credit, but also allows us to help our clients to shine. So, when I talk about the success of my clients, I'm also saying, well, look at them, and saying, these people are now doing these things and I contributed to their journey. And so, it's not that I did all of this and it's me, me, me. What really it's about is, it's about, here's how I'm here to serve, here's how we can partner together and hopefully change the world in some way.

Yeah.

When I get to the change the world part, it always feels very Pollyanna-esque, but don't we all want to be seen and heard so we can change something in this world? I think it's foundational to the human spirit to want to be seen and heard.

Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny because as you were talking about that, I was thinking about situations where I've got a twinge of something's not quite right. And I think it was either, it was either Bar Rescue or like Kitchen Nightmare. You know, one of these, I'll help save your business TV shows, and when they do the final tour around, they say, oh, here, let me come on in and I'll show you what I did. And then they look, I installed this, and look, I did this, and look, I did this. And yet, you know, the whole footage had all these people buzzing around doing the work for them. And I keep thinking, you know, where's the call out for the people who did all the work? Like, really, is that—

Yeah.

To me, that's that icky part of, you know, why didn't you recognize the people who helped you do this?

And that's the whole thing. So, we want to definitely talk about our successes and claim credit. But what a lot of the book is about is like, how do I help also my teams shine? Or how do I help somebody else? So, I talk about what's called sistering up. It's a construction term. So, nice there. Nice connection there. But it's called sistering up. And it's where in construction, it's where the floor joists, we need a little bit more support. So, we put something else below it and then we make it stronger.

Yes.

And so, how do we help make other people stronger while we're talking about our successes or shining a spotlight on them and helping them to talk about their successes? Because when you shine the spotlight on other people, it comes back to you. So, if that host of that show had put the spotlight on their awesome team of tilers, because tiling is one of those art— that's an art form and a science of getting those things so they don't buckle and don't crack really fast. If they actually put the spotlight on their team and didn't constantly own, own everything, that's where the heaviness comes in. And so it's making sure that you shine the spotlight on others as you also claim the credit appropriately, but the I, I, I gets to be too much too quickly. And so it's things like, here's my contribution. Like that's one of the ways as we start to learn to brag and self-promote is to say my contribution to this. And that means that it is a team thing. But so many of us though, we won't claim any of it. And so those people that, and that's the thing, those I, I, I people have made it so hard for the rest of us to find that right balance in between all of it.

Yeah, I love that. But there's also, I have come across a lot of people. I do have a theory that many people who have skills actually downplay their capacity because they truly don't know That what they do is special. A perfect example is my mom is 88 years old. Sorry, Mom. I just said it on— I said it on air. Sorry. But she just released her 5th book. She's working on book number 6. She's writing these kids' books. And I say, you know, people are just so thrilled whenever— and she goes, well, I don't know why. It's like, it's because it's special. Anybody can do it. And it's like, you know, this constant downplaying of our capacity. And I know myself, I tend to be like in a group of people, I tend to be the silent one. Until, especially if it's like a meeting or there's different things and different topics going on. And I kind of just sit back until people will ask me, what do I think? And so many times, it's come out that I'll get into something or I'll do something and they're like, why the hell haven't you told us that you can do this? So, is this something that's an innate quality? Or do you think that there's an intent? Like, I can't see the intentionality behind it.

But that's where we have to be intentional. We have to have— we have to be intentional about what we want to say and put out there. And so going back to your mom, it's because we don't realize the gifts that we have. And that's why we have to put more things out there so people can say, oh, that's really important to the world as it is right now. And more moments instead of just the milestones. So the moments along the way help all of us to be on the journey with you. And then, because often we only celebrate the milestones, like when our book is actually published or when we hit a bestseller list or when we actually land that big client. But if we share the moments along the way, then more and more people will be able to tap into our genius and then take things that they need to help live a successful life or to help us and bolster our businesses and our endeavors in the right way. And so when we sit back too much and we are always going to be active listeners, the people who are You know, that are attracted to this work, they know that we are here based on the shoulders of giants. They get that we are paid for. All these smart ideas came before us, and some of us have just curated them. But we realize that. But when we sit back and we're not the beacon, that's when they go to the mediocre person down the hall. And that is so frustrating. And I just want more and more of us to take off that invisibility cloak and stop being those hidden gems and let people know Again, how we are here to serve. I can't say that enough, but that's what it's really about.

So how do we check ourselves? Because like you said, it has to be intentional, but then behind intentionality has to be an objective, or it has to be— there has to be a strategy, or there has to be something that we need to know that we need to check ourselves in order for us to be able to move forward. How do we create that intentionality?

Yeah, and I do go into that in the book because it's self-reflection that we don't do enough of. And it's really understanding we market to where we want to go. And so many of us just worry about our reputations. But when you market to where you want to go, then that's making sure that you have the strategy, the plan, and then you go into the tactics where so many of us, you know, we go right away to tactics and we feel like we have to do all the social media because we have to get our word out there, but we don't really know what we're doing. And we hire a company and then it doesn't do anything for us. And then we're like, well, what happened? I put out those— 20 social posts and I wrote a blog and I was on a podcast and I was on TV and it didn't do anything for me because it's spaghetti on the wall. We need to actually know where we want to go. And so where do you want to go? Where do you want to be in the next 6 months? You know, we're not, we're not necessarily doing 10 years anymore, but what do we want to do? Where do you want to go next? Market to where you want to go. So you need to sit down and reflect on what it is that you want to do and what you've done and where you want to go with that. And I think you'll be You know, pleasantly surprised that it will start to come to you. And we're not chasing after titles anymore. We're going to, how does it make me feel? What am I going to do because of that? And what else happens along the way to make a fulfilling journey? So, you know, being a CEO, being a VP, you know, owning your own company, but it's— there's so many different roads now that what's going on today might turn into 15 different paths tomorrow. So, the world is changing so fast. But allowing yourself to be open and having some direction is, is I think the critical path for all of us in these strange times that we're in.

I just would like you, for the people who might not be familiar with it, define what the spaghetti on the wall metaphor is about.

Yeah, it's, you know, it's one of those things that you just think everyone knows, but it's that where you just throw things at it and you hope it sticks. Supposedly spaghetti that's ready When you throw it at the wall, it sticks to the wall, and then you know you can eat it instead of picking up a piece and actually trying it. I don't know why, but people would— they say throw it at the wall and see what sticks. Ready? Is it if it sticks it's ready, or if it falls off the wall it's ready? I would think it sticks.

If it sticks, it'll stick when it's ready. But, you know, again, part of that metaphor, of course, is that it's a wide berth as well, right? So it's not a focused throw. It's, it's that it's going to go all over the wall and we're just going to see what sticks. Really, from a marketing perspective, that's just a waste of money, a waste of effort.

No.

And, you know, back in the day, people would have said shotgun.

You know, it's just like splatter everything and see what happens. And that's not the way, especially if this is about you and your brand. You don't have the budget of Coca-Cola. So you need to really think about it and be strategic about what you want to talk about, having a strategy behind that, having a point of view on something. And limiting what you want to talk about because we can't talk about everything all the time. Because if we talk about everything, then we talk about nothing because people will be confused by our position on things. So, I'd say instead of broadcasting, what I talk about in the book is instead of broadcasting, narrowcasting. So, instead of throwing all the spaghetti at the wall, really just try that one piece.

Get it.

You have to just get it to that one person that's going to care instead of thinking that everyone needs to hear from us. Who really needs your message? Who do you really want to attract to your message?

I want to play a little bit devil's advocate because at the beginning, I talked about networking sessions. About anybody who teaches networking will talk of this whole thing about people don't care about you talking about yourself. So, stop talking about yourself. Where does this fit into the equation of getting your message out versus what you're trying to do in networking, which is make these very real connections.

Yeah. And you know, Marc, I think it's funny because all of us know that now. And so we get a little bit of, what are they gonna say? What are they gonna say? We're waiting on them instead of starting into stories. And so, and networking is, is challenging. You know, we, back in the day, we used to all run around and collect business cards, and now we run around and collect LinkedIn people. But it's really, how do we move people from Being part of our network, to being our connections, to moving them into relationships. And that's the critical thing. So yes, do we sit there in listening and not talk? So many of us do. And yes, it's nice. People love to talk about themselves and they feel really good when they've heard from you, but if they don't know anything about you, then it's not sticky enough to them. So yes, if they go first, have listening ears on and ask them questions and then be prepared to add in your connections to what they've said. You know, so you're listening to them actively and then you're adding in any experiences that you can say, okay, here are the experiences I've had. And so you're doing it that way where you're adding in things, but be prepared to have your signature stories. What stories can you tell after that initial chitchat banter about the networking? What are the stories that really matter that tell, that can tell your story? You know, what is it? What is it? What is that story that tells your story? Have that ready to go. And you can repeat it over and over and over again. It's just something, and it's not an elevator pitch. It's just that one thing that you like to tell and that, that really resonates with people. And then if you are in full active listening mode for that whole conversation, follow up with an email. So most of us don't do anything. Yes, you can listen most of the time and they're going to think you're just the most loveliest person, but follow up with that email. Like, I think it's like 20% of people actually follow up. 80% of us don't. And that's where we lose the business by not following up with people. So it was lovely to talk to you, Marc. I learned so much about you. Here's one thing that I like to add to the conversation that we didn't get to when we were chatting about my life. And then here's, you know, here's an article, here's something else or whatever it is, like to keep the conversation going. You don't even have to give them anything else just because having somebody offer to keep a conversation going. is amazing and could be your new best friend forever or business best friend. But we forget to actually talk about ourselves and then we're not sticky then. And that's a little bit of a problem for us who, those of us who need to be seen and heard so we can get more business.

But also a way of validating the other person as well. I mean, if you send an email after you've met somebody at a networking event and say, hey John, it was so great connecting with you. Here's something I found. Vis-à-vis our conversation, I hope you find it useful. These people are going to turn around and go, wow, that's really great that he actually remembered who I was because 100 other people didn't.

And Marc, we know these things, but we don't do them, right? So follow up, send that email, send that thank you. So gratitude is self-promotion. So it's self-promotion. Thank you for that opportunity. Thank you. That is self-promotion because it's letting them know how you're here to serve. But it's one of the tactics, right? So it's saying, I'm going to write a thank you card. I'm going to send snail mail, in the mail, a thank you card, or I'm going to email a thank you card because I just don't have time, or I'm going to do it on the association, or I'm going to take that picture that we took together and I'm going to put it on LinkedIn and say, thank you, Marc, for doing this with me or meeting me. It was so great to see you there. Those are some small things that we can do, and that is self-promotion. That's why it doesn't have to be icky. These are almost common sense things that why aren't we doing them? It will really make your basket full when you do these kinds of things. So, just those small steps.

It really feels to me that it's not only about talking about yourself, but it's about reflecting your values.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Like, that was just something that came up as you were talking about that. It's like, you're right. It's not when I send a thank you note for something. somebody. It's not saying, hey, look at how great I am. I just sent you a handwritten thank you note. It's no, this is— you're important to me and I want to show you that you're important to me. So, I'm going to take a moment and write out this note and drop it in snail mail and hope you like it.

And that's why none of this should be slimy or gimmicky. And that's like really, it is from your values that you are honoring the people that want to spend time with you and are asking you questions that you're there to, to receive and to also share, right? So we all— we give and we take, we give and we take.

And that's okay to take, right?

It's selfish. It's okay to take. I know, so many of us have a hard time asking. So I have to ask people, you know, you've written a book, so you know you have to ask people for Amazon reviews. Like, that's really hard. And in my research, I found there are people who get a pass on bragging and self-promotion. It's when you've written a book, you get actors, writers, politicians, obviously CEOs, but they get a pass by society. It's like, well, you have to do these things. And so now I have to go out and ask people, well, please write a review for the book because people don't think that their review matters. Or take it to social media. How many of us don't think that our comment matters or our like matters? Well, it does matter. And we do need to be putting those things out there, not just to help the person who's writing something of significance that you appreciate, but also the fact that then you're seen as a thought leader or somebody who is involved when you at least write a little comment. You know, you'll see 170 likes on something, but only 7 comments.

Yeah.

Write a comment. And it can just be something that you take from exactly what the other person said in there and just put it in quotation marks and said, Love this, or what a thought, you know, and just like, that's how simple it can be. And then you get into their sun. Now, not everyone's doing their own social media, but everyone checks on it from time to time and they get reports on it and they'll know, hey, you know what, that Marc, he's been on your thing. He's all there. He's writing reviews for you. He's this, like there's something to him. And then when you bump into them at that big event, they're going to remember you and that's going to help you out in some way, shape, or form.

I love that. Lisa, this is so amazing. Like, I love this discussion. If this is resonating with the audience, is there some way that they can check in with you and check you out and maybe even connect with you in order to bring you on board?

Yeah, please come to my website. It's lisabragg.com. I'm on social media too, mostly heavily on LinkedIn. So, if you'd like to find me there, it's Lisa Bragg with 2 Gs. And also on Instagram, and it's @lisa_bragg on that handle there. But I would love to follow up. And if you hashtag anything Bragging Rights. I will find it and cheer you on because that's really what I want to do is help. How do I help amplify all these good messages of good people who need to be seen and heard? So, so totally appreciate you having me on and sharing that.

Yeah, lovely. Tell us a little bit about your book. It came out in May. So, can you dig a little? I know you've alluded to a bunch of stuff, but can you take us a little deeper dive into Bragging Rights: How to Talk About Your Work Using Purposeful Self- Yeah, the book came out in May and it's done the Amazon thing a few times, been a bestseller a few times.

And this is my copy of it, so dog-eared. But, you know, a few tips right away would be start a brag book. That would be one of the things, or smile file, so that people are starting to collect all the good things that you've done. Because you know what, I can't even remember last week to say what I've done. So start collecting those things. But the book is based on the research, international research I have done. It wasn't just Here's what I found and one kind of thing, and, or the few people I've coached and keynoted with. No, no, no. This is international research. Because I found a lot of the research that had been done before on bragging and self-promotion was actually based on really small survey amounts. So, university cohorts, people in the US who are 20, 21 years old. And when you're that age, you really do want to fit in. But as you grow older and get more experienced in your career and are entrepreneurs and business owners, you really want to not only fit in, but you also need to stand out. So, the first book really talks about why we are the way we are and that you're not alone. It's actually an international problem and challenge for all of us. And then, the second part of the book really goes into how do we help move you forward. And all the way through, I have these great prompts. And I'm saying they're great because I go to them all the time and do the work myself. But it's to consider. So we have that self-reflection piece. It's to do. Here are some easy things that you can do right away to get going on your own bragging or self-promotion and to share, because I really believe that to share some of this work is going to help other people. So I purposely say have it to share. So here's page 129. To share is what sounds like bragging to one person is just conversation to another. And I want you to share that fact with a friend. And here's this to consider is, are you trying to impress people or are you sharing an experience that is important, captivating, or special? Is it knowledge that shares your wisdom, skills, or experiences so that others can learn? And the to-do is list 20 of your work successes. And they don't have to be hardcore facts. They can be things that your viewpoint, your accomplishments, steps of courage and contributions, and what outcomes did those have? What was the impact and what did you learn from those successes? So that was a lot right off the top from just one page, but it's action-packed because I do want people to be inspired. But I really want people to, at the end of the day, learn something from this book that they can share and really help themselves to be seen and be heard and to get the clients and the opportunities that they already deserve. And this is not a fix-you book. It's really, you already deserve these things. Now let's tell the world so you can actually— get the opportunities.

I love it. I love it. You know, my next question was going to be to share any tips you have on how to practice bragging rights without feeling like you're overstepping. And so you've just done that with just one page. But an interesting idea popped in about that is, how do you know if you are overstepping?

You know what?

You're already going to have a high meter of feeling it right away. So you're going to be— I want you to go actually to fear plus 10%. So I want you to feel that. I want you to feel like, ah, and see what happens. Because I think it's mostly going to be in your, in your own head of what you're feeling, because it's often context. So if you're telling someone, you know, sometimes our family members don't understand what we do, so they might think right away, oh, she's so full of herself. But when we're talking, that's why context really matters. But when we're talking to our peers and we're telling them our stories, what are they receiving? How are they hearing it? And what I would love is for us to move it to that talking about our successes isn't a spotlight moment, but it's actually part of the daylight. All of us are putting our successes out there so that more people can have successes and that we just don't think that it's, oh, it's luck that she got there or whatever it is. No, no, no. Telling people how you get someplace is a gift to other people, to people in the next generation and your peers so that they can also do it. So, when are you going to feel it? When you're starting out, you're going to feel like every step is like, ah, a little bit too much. And that's why so many people in international research felt that it's icky. But I think it was like 90% know that they need to brag and self-promote more to get the opportunities that they deserve. But another point was 85% of us, when you brag, 85% of us, our reaction is actually we're cheering you on. So, if that can be anything, any soulless, Right now, 85% of people who hear you brag are cheering you on. 12% of people will ignore you, and 3% of people will turn around and brag about themselves. So, woohoo, awesome. Forget about the 12%, and the math did add up. Yeah. Forget about that 12%. Go for that 85%. Don't look at the people that don't like what you're saying. Go for the people that do like what you're saying. So, But fear plus 10%. Feel that little bit of like, ah, and go for it.

It's like any new skill, right? A lot of people I come across have imposter syndrome. They are like, I want to talk about myself. But really what I do, I know 100 other people who can do what I do. And they're more special than I am. How do we get over it?

You know, I had that today even. Somebody who I admire is kind of in my field. And so, I was like, I felt like, oh no, because she has way more followers Way more experience and had really big, big, huge brand supporting her initiative. And so, I felt that pang today. And so, what I did, I reached out to her and I congratulated her on her next thing. And because I believe in collaboration over competition, I'm going to have a call to see what kind of work we can do in the future. So, I think that's one thing. But in the book, I go through the imposter syndrome, but I call it imposter experience. Because I think so many of us who are truthful go through it all the time. And why do we have it now when our parents' and our grandparents' generation didn't have it? It's because every day is a new thing. Every day we're trying something brand new nowadays, where before your life was stable. It was the same every day. There wasn't as many variables as there are now, you know, weather systems or technology and job changes and client changes and mergers and acquisitions. And yes, things were changing, but now our speed of change is so fast. And so, you're going along and like, okay, I kind of know what I'm doing. Actually, I don't know what I'm doing. And then you go back and then you actually have some mastery and then you jump to something new. And that's what we are. That's anyone listening to the show, you're a high achiever and you're going to keep doing that same thing where it's an S-curve. I think I know what I'm doing. No, I absolutely don't. And then, oh, I do know, I have mastery. I'm going to jump again to a new goal. And that's where we feel the imposter experience and realize that you're not alone. All of us are there. And then when you see somebody who is doing that awesomeness that you're doing and you think, oh my gosh, they're way better than me, reach out. And instead of thinking they're a competitor and you're in a place of shame or shy or whatever it is, reach out to them and then become their collaborator instead of their competition. And amazing things will happen. I honestly Honestly, so many good things have happened when I've switched my mindset that they become my peers and we elevate each other. So, it's a different mindset than staying stuck in the imposter syndrome experience.

Love it! I'd like to get into some cautionaries for people who might want to start taking this on. What things they should be cautious of. And we'll get to that right after this.

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We are having a phenomenal discussion. I'm here with bragging expert Lisa Bragg. As you can tell, Lisa and I are passionate about serving you, the leader. If you are planning a leadership retreat or you're part of an organization that's planning a conference or convention coming up, why don't you reach out to us and see how maybe we can fit into your agenda? I have a sneaking suspicion we'll surprise you. So with that, Lisa, cautionaries. What should people be aware of when it comes down to this idea of, okay, I'm going to give this a try. I'm going to start trying to toot my own horn a little bit. What are some of the things that they should be aware of as they try it out?

Yeah, realize that shame might come up, that you might feel some shame over things because this is a new thing. So watch out for the feeling of shame and realize that you can work through it. So realize that shame can hold and keep us stuck. So move past shame. So I have some tips in the book about it. But shame often holds us because we don't like— I'll feel shame if I talk about these things, or I didn't do it right. It's not, you know, big enough for people, but have those moments. And I think that's where it's like, okay, I'm okay with that. But have moments, share moments that matter. So don't wait for the big part of it. Show moments along the way. But you're watching for cautionary. Oh, here's some, because I pulled up my page. Like, don't let the technology stop you. And don't let naysayers stop you. Don't let your parents stop you. If your parents aren't right in your cheerleading squad, you can go on without them. Don't let your partner stop you. Don't wait for likes and engagement. I think that's another thing is we see that people aren't engaging with our content if we're doing a social media strategy and think we should give up. I have stories in the book where people ended up, they didn't think they had anyone following and listening to them, but they ended up getting lots of work from continually posting online some of the good content that they have. So, don't worry about likes and engagement. Don't let the noise of other people's success get to you. I think that's a big thing. Don't let the fear of being irrelevant get to you. Don't wait for the end. But if you're looking for some other word things to say, people are often asking me like, well, what can I say? My contribution, I think I said it earlier, is my contribution to this is an easy way. And also you can say, you know, I got this award because. So because is a nice joiner word. And when you say that because, that helps to soften it for people and then they accept it. So because Because you're worth it, right? That that L'Oreal line, that tagline, I write about it in the book. But it's really one of those things that was magic, and you can then easily people will then accept it a lot more. It's it's easier on the ear. Say instead of saying the you know the chest thumping me me me me me me I I I I it's those kind of things. But but also start out with how do you share the spotlight with others and and helping other people to shine?

I love it. This has been such a great discussion. Do you have any last thoughts about what we've been talking about today?

You are such a great interviewer. I really appreciate the time. So, I think it's, you know, share. It's not mine. It was in an article. But researchers found this. It's called SHOI. And it's called Share Your Joy. So, they made a word, SHOI. And when we share our joy with others, more people then have joy. So, SHOEI, share and joy. And when you share your brag, that gives you SHOEI. And there's also bragitude. So, it's a brag plus your gratitude. So, I've been on so many podcasts, but thanks to great hosts like Marc, the word is getting out further. So, that is a brag, but then it's also gratitude. And so, when you have it, I didn't name it, but it's in the book, but it's bragitude. When you have that, people love to hear it and they want to then amplify you and cheer you on. And we need We definitely need more of us to be cheerleaders and champions and ambassadors for each other to help more people shine. So that's, I think that I'd like to end with that. Thanks, Marc.

Well, I think you're bragalicious.

That's not in the book, but that sounds good.

Lisa, I want to thank you so much again for being a guest today. Could you just remind everybody one more time how they can get a hold of you?

Yeah, come to my website. It's lisabragg.com, and my book is available everywhere where you'd buy books. And it looks like this if you're looking around for it. And I'm also on LinkedIn heavily. Find me there and we can connect. And it's Lisa Bragg with 2 Gs everywhere. So thank you.

Thank you very much. And I do have a lot of brag attitude for you. Right? Gratitude. Whatever. Thank you so much for doing this today. You're wonderful.

Thank you.

Why don't you let me know if this was of value to you? As always, my offer stands. If you would like 30 minutes of my time to brainstorm your business with you and your team, feel free to book a time on my online calendar at a time that works for you. The link is in the show notes. It's the one that's marked meetwith.marchaine.com. It would be my absolute honor for me to be of service. And while you're at it, why don't you go ahead and leave a comment or a review about this episode. I'd love to get your feedback. Was this of value to you? Go ahead and make sure you subscribe to the podcast as well. This would be great. So great having you along for the ride. My name is Marc Haine. I hope that you stay safe, stay healthy, and I hope you dare to be the exception.

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