If You're not Making Your Customers Happy, Change Your Strategy

Having difficult customers in business is nothing new to us. At least you had clients who had needs that required resolution. At its worst, you had a client that was so disruptive to your business and put your operation, your staff, and your clients at risk. But today, how do you defuse these types of customers? And that's coming up next on Marc Haine Live. Welcome back to Marc Haine Live where small business owners and entrepreneurs pick up core skill sets to help them work on their business, not just in their business. I am your host, Service Expert and Master of Experiences Marc Haine. Thank you so much for joining me today. This is episode number 24. And I'm so glad to have you here for this episode. Our special guest today is Service Expert Russ Dantoo. And we'll get to him in just a moment. But in the meantime, if you've been following me regularly, then you know I come to you live every Tuesday at noon Eastern Time here on YouTube. And I come to you solely with the purpose to be of service to you. If you're watching this as a replay, thank you Thank you so much for coming out and checking me out. If you find this information valuable, please, please, please go ahead and share it. I'd appreciate a thumbs up. Share it with people who you think could be a benefit, could actually benefit from this content. Dealing with difficult people has always been a challenge for businesses. Even before COVID-19, we always had challenges. And when we had those challenges, we had some people who would say something to us. But then, they say, oh, you know what? I forgive you. I understand things can get hectic. No problem. They're so understanding. But we recognized that they had needs. We also had those kinds of customers that would say nothing to us at all at the time. But they'd leave our businesses and they would go and tell their closest friends and family members. And then of course, we had those who would complain and who would only seem happy if we sacrificed a small goat on their behalf on some altar somewhere. In fact, I did an episode focused strictly on how to respond to online keyboard warriors. It is on this channel. You should check it out if you've ever had anybody who who didn't come to you with a complaint but then got home. I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's because we're Canadian that we don't want to say anything at the moment. But then, they get in their car and the further they drive away, the more mad they get until they get onto their keyboards and then, they just fry you. And it's tough. It's a tough situation for us. But now, more than ever, we seem to get We seem to be getting customers who are angry about wearing masks. We have customers wearing masks who are mad that people are not wearing masks. And it's really like we've just unleashed the devil incarnate. So today, from you, I would like to know from you, what has been your experience with customers and their masks? And that's So, what has been your experience? Has it been a problem in your business? Have you had confrontations between customers and your staff, or yourself and the customers in some form or fashion? Go ahead and put your comments in the comment box below. I'd love to hear the— give us the juicy details. Tell us everything.

We want to know.

We want to share. So, as I mentioned, our guest today is fellow service expert and speaker trainer Russ Dantoo. Russ is the author of At Your Service: A Guide to Delivering Exceptional Customer Service and has been delivering workshops, seminars, and keynotes on customer service for over 20 years. I mean, he looks so young. And through his 30 years of studying customer service practices in a variety of sectors, he has helped thousands of companies increase their bottom line, retain their employees, and rise above their competition. If you go to his website at russdontu.com, you will see the list of clients that he services. And it is amazing, the people, the scope of his experience. If you have ever attended one of his sessions, you will know that his programs and keynotes leave you equipped with the key tools you need to take your customer service to the very next level. Hey Marc, great to be here.

Thank you very much for that amazing introduction. I should have you with me all the time. That was great.

It's like an air thing. I have to pump you up. Nah, I mean it. I'm absolutely sincere in my recommendation and having you on the show. I was so excited when you said, you would do my show. So, thank you so much. This is actually the very first time that I've had another service expert on the show. You and I both talk basically to the same people. We talk about the same kinds of things, which is how to wow our customers and how to keep them coming back. And I can't help but wonder with both of us on this call, are we going to spend all our time just trying to make each other happy? What do you think?

You know what? It's such an important topic. And when you asked me, I was all over it because I've been following you for quite a few years. as well, Marc, and know that you're a customer service expert. So, I'm always intrigued at what other customer service experts are saying. And I love your style and what you do when you engage your customers as well.

Well, thank you very much. So Russ, maybe to kick off, maybe you could tell us a little bit about what you do for your clients.

All right. Thanks very much. I am a customer and employee retention strategist. So I've got a very simple formula. You know, basically happy employees equal happy customers equal happy you. And I think anything we do in customer service has to start with our employees. We have to have the right people in the right positions. We have to have that culture that has the whole team working together. And that can be a huge, huge thing to accomplish, especially when you look at all the different generations these days. You know, When you think of the baby boomers, which are on their way out, and you've got your Generation X, your Generation Y, your Generation Z, or your millennials, mixing those all in and getting a cohesive team and finding all of their needs to keep them happy so they can make your customers happy so you can make more money. Customer service should be pretty simple but it's getting more complex all the time.

Yeah, it really is. And when you think about it, I always joke with people that business would be so easy if it wasn't for the customers. They seem to be That one variable that we're always constantly having to adjust to. But as I mentioned earlier, customer service and specifically dealing with customers that have high needs is challenging the best of times. Now, the internet is full of issues around masks. So much so that they are getting literally, they're on the nightly news virtually every single night. There's stuff on the internet and it's all over the news. Check out this video.

Now a flashpoint for conflict.

I work for Costco and I'm asking this member to put on a mask because that is our company policy. So either wear the mask— And I'm not doing it because I woke up in a free country.

This viral video inside a Costco shows a customer unwilling to wear a face covering berating an employee.

So you're gonna take this cart from me? Sir, have a great day. You are no longer welcome here in our warehouse. You need to leave.

Thank you.

Costco, which declined to comment on the specific incident, requires customers to wear masks, citing the CDC, saying, although some may disagree with this policy or question its effectiveness, we're choosing to err on the side of safety. This conflict drives home the new reality for frontline retail workers now having to enforce health and safety policies in addition to normal responsibilities. Tensions boiling over as unprecedented customer demand soars. Walmart and Target in-store sales jumped more than 10%, online sales skyrocketing far higher.

But this quarter was unlike anything we've seen in our company's long history.

Grocery store workers worry for their own safety too. We don't feel too protected. It's just been crazy.

The customers, they have attitudes sometimes, and then we got to deal with who may and may not be sick.

Hi everyone.

As for the Costco employee Tyson, he's grateful after a difficult moment. Tweeting, thank you for all of the support. Balancing a new job on top of a job on the front lines of this pandemic. Jolene Kent, NBC News, Los Angeles.

So what makes these issues really dangerous is that the arguments, like, like in this video, have become more about civil liberty— civil rented lips— civil liberties. And in some cases, they've even become racial. We've had issues where people have gone into convenience stores and started berating the clerks because the clerk was asking them to wear a mask. And then, they start attacking based on race. And it's unfair to the clerks. They're not prepared for it. What are your thoughts, Russ, about this, what I call a polarizing situation?

It definitely is. And you know, I was out A few weeks ago, I stopped at the bank, I stopped at Safeway, and I stopped at Cogs, all in the same vicinity, and there were customers in there not wearing masks. So I, I went up to the bank teller when I got up there and I said, I gotta ask you a question. Why is it that that big guy over there— and he was about 6'4, 275 pounds, I didn't want to get into it with him— uh, I said, why is it that he's not— he's allowed to be in here not wearing a mask? And she says, He's a regular customer. He told us that he can't wear a mask, and we're not allowed to question him as to why he cannot wear a mask, which I think is crap. I think we should have some sort of card for those people so that it makes that easier for them, so they don't get all the glaring looks from other people, but also to keep it fair, because him just saying, I don't have to wear a mask, I don't have to tell you why, I didn't think that was right. Then I went into Cobb's. I asked them the same question. There was an elderly gentleman in there. And even though their signs said everyone has to wear a mask, they said we're not enforcing it. We're sort of playing it as people come in. You know, if they're polite, if they're keeping their distance from others, then we leave it alone. We don't want any confrontation with them. And I said, well, how is that fair to me? I don't like wearing a mask, but I do it because it's supposed to be the law, but nobody's enforcing it. And the same in Safeway. And I talked to a couple of employees down different aisles, and they just said, yeah, we put up the signs, we do announcements, but we're not enforcing it. So it is definitely a real problem. And I see it as a consumer that's a concerned consumer, and I also see it for the business owners as well. And because it's such a hostile environment as well, the people that are not wearing masks can get quite angry, and the ones that are wearing masks can get quite angry that those aren't— people aren't wearing the masks. So I think we have to Obviously, err on the side of caution because we have to take our safety into account first. And just in the videos you've shown there, it could have gone a lot worse than the Costco one. Right here in Calgary, we had that happen a few weeks ago in a Fabricland store with a lady that went absolutely berserk on the clerks, and they kept their cool. They were very firm with her, but they made it very clear that she needed to leave and she was not welcome to come back. So I think that's what businesses need to do. And, you know, It takes it to the next level now where you get the Google reviews and you're going to get negative Google reviews from these people. So, I'm hoping everybody that reads Google reviews actually takes that into consideration because it's not fair to the businesses as well. Right.

You know, it's funny because I think you mentioned that companies decided even though they have a policy that they're not enforcing it. Any reason why they're not enforcing it? Is it lack of training? Is it a lack of motivation? Do they just not want to get involved?

What I was hearing from every— well, the Safeway didn't say it, but Cobbs and the bank said it was, we've been told to avoid confrontation. So if somebody comes in, as long as they're polite, if they say they're not required to wear a mask or they can't for a health reason, then they let it go. They're not supposed to escalate the situation, which in customer service, we don't want to escalate the situation. Situation either. We want to try and keep our customers as calm as possible when we're dealing with customer complaints and that. But it's definitely a new area where it seems to be all over the place right now with what businesses are doing. And I wish it would be policed better because I think that's what we need to keep everybody safe.

Yeah, yeah. Well, so for our viewers, just so you know viewers, I just want to let you know that this episode is brought to you by the Speaker Presentation Timer app. It's an app that I created and it's I created it for my presentation speaking buddies. Look, since when did, oh, how much time do I have left? Or am I running out of time? When has that ever become a part of your strong persuasive and motivational presentation? As a presenter, you are in front of an audience to be of service. You have a message. You have a purpose to be there. And you have a responsibility to deliver your message within an allotted time frame. Frame. Anything else and you look like an amateur and you do a disservice to your audience, to your planner, to the reputation, to your reputation as being a speaker. The new Speaker Presentation Timer app allows you to stay in the moment. It helps you stay being of service to your audience. It prompts you with silent and discreet reminders on your phone and on your Apple Watch. And it keeps you on set. It can segregate your sections like this one does. And it keeps you on purpose. So, go ahead and download it. I had to do a little sponsor push. We have to take the opportunities every once in a while to say, hey, I'm doing this for free but I'd like to get my message out there.

Anyway, Russ. That's an absolutely fabulous app.

Thank you very much. So, there are municipalities now that are making masks mandatory. Yet, There are still incidences where customers are still being served without a mask. And in past episodes, I talked about the importance of recognizing and addressing conflict within team members. That when team members are squabbling and the supervisor just goes on with blinders and doesn't see it. Do you get a sense that leaders within their businesses are doing the same thing now when it comes to people wearing masks?

I think they are. I think that leaders might be a little bit overwhelmed with everything that's happened since COVID with all of the new safety measures that have to be in place, all the extra work that it takes to actually make workplaces safe and that. And I think when it comes to employees, it's just one more thing because you said about, you know, if we didn't have customers, life would be easy. I'm going to say, if we didn't have to worry about our employees, life would be easy. And I remember years ago when I was in the trade show industry, at times I had up words of 100 employees. And I tell you, it felt like you were babysitting all the time with people constantly coming in your door with concerns. It was like you were a counselor trying to help them, or they were bickering with Joe and Sally was mad at Susie, and it went on and on and on. So, you know, first off, yeah, you have to try and defuse the situation. You have to get both sides of the argument. And then usually I would bring them both into the room. to have a little sit-down after and go over things to see if we could rectify it. Because if you don't deal with it right away, it just festers and grows into something very ugly and manifests itself. So, that's my take on that.

Yeah. And so, interesting take on it because ultimately, what I see— sorry, I hit the wrong screen— is that if Operators fail to react to the needs of their customers, they are just setting themselves up to damage their brand. It's so funny. I went into a grocery store. I was with my mom. Bless her heart. She's 85 years old. Yeah. And so, we have our masks on and we're shopping. And she's coming next to me. And there are 2 young guys who came up and they had no problem Breaking the social distancing rules, they had no problem coming close to my mom. And so I told my mom I'd want to get her a t-shirt that says, "I'm 85. I'd like to see 90." Right? Please stay away. Right? You know, the alternative was to get her like a sombrero with a three-foot rim. You know, so it's it's going to be nice and big, just to keep people away from her. But. So, I'd like to dive into your ENDear Formula for dealing with difficult people. But before we do that, can you let our audience know how they can get in touch with you?

Thanks very much, Marc. You know what? It's very simple. russ@russdantu.com. So, russ@russdantu.com.

Excellent! And if they want to email you, the link is there on the website as well.

It's on there as well. You betcha.

Okay. So Russ, in your experience, I mean, 30 years you've been doing this. What kinds of bad habits leaders have when it comes to dealing with difficult or challenging customers?

You know, I think sometimes they're just having a bad day. And when something goes wrong, they say things that they shouldn't. So, I mean, good leaders need to really focus on getting all the facts before they speak. And when they do speak, they have to remain calm. Now, I wasn't always the best manager either. I used to lose my cool once in a while. But You know, there— I've shared a story many times before during my sessions and that about a very— a great pizza place in Banff. And one of my good clients and that used to go there 3 or 4 times a year. They would just drive out to Banff from Calgary, 2-hour drive. They'd spend the day out there with their kids. They actually did this before they were married, and they would always end their day at this pizza place, and they did that for about 15 years. Then they had— and they had kids, and so the 4 of them would do that. Their last time they were there, this was several years ago now, but they went to the pizza place, they ordered 4 meals, and the waitress was— I think she was fairly new, but she was nice and everything. And then she came out and provided 3 meals, and they looked at her and said, well, what about my daughter's calamari? And she says, oh, the calamari machine is broken. I'm sorry. And I'm thinking, what the heck is a calamari machine? But they said, okay, well, you could have told us that earlier. She says, I made a mistake, I'm sorry. And they said, okay, look, we're in a rush, no worries, just take that off the bill. We'll eat our 3 meals, we'll share some of it, and we'll be on our way and everything. So she went and talked to the chef and one of the managers and, and then came back and said, you know what, we're, we're gonna take that off the bill, obviously, because you didn't get it, and we're gonna take another meal off of there as well. So my, my friend, my customer was very happy. She gets up to the till and the owner had just come back in from doing a bank deposit or something like that. And he's like, why is there a free meal on here? This isn't right. And she started to explain the situation. Well, he twisted on her and said, you want free meals? You go somewhere else to eat. You pay for your meals when you come in here. So you get nothing for free. And she says, I'm just trying to tell you we've been coming here. He says, I don't care what you want to tell me. And then he dropped an F-bomb in the middle of a sentence in front of her kids. And she stood there dumbfounded and said, this will be the last time we visit your premise. And we've been coming here for about 17 years now, 3 or 4 times a year. So with that, with him reacting the way he did, he lost it. Not only did he lose it, then she went on to the reviews and she started posting all over the place. Oh my God. Now, it's banned. So, did it hurt his business? Maybe, maybe not. He's still in business. I know he is. But I have not eaten there since either. So, it's just we've got to look after our customers. And sometimes, for the sake of a meal, what was the calamari meal worth? $12, $15? And then, a free meal on top of that. It just didn't make sense.

And the other thing that we fail to recognize is that all our customers have a lifetime value.

Right.

But they also have a customer value. So, the customer itself will come back time and time again. And that's a lifetime customer value. But then, their lifetime value is who do they talk to? Who do they suggest goes to your business? And this idea with running the new policies now with mandatory masks and that sort of thing, I think it's incumbent upon the businesses now to really turn around and figure out how are they going to strategize a good policy and a good response to people who need masks. I went to one place and they had somebody standing at the door just letting people know you have to put on a mask.

Yeah.

And they were okay if a customer turned around and went, argh! And he turned around and walked away. They knew. They set the game plan ahead of time. They set the rules ahead of time instead of kind of intercepting the customer when he's 3/4 of the way through the door. The Costco thing is interesting. Because in Costco, they have a greeter. So, if somebody walks in, if masks are mandatory in Costco and somebody walks in without a mask, the staff should have been trained to intercept that person in a way that's diplomatic. But that's firm. And that is non-aggressive. But it's forceful enough to make the person either turn around, put a mask on, or turn around and come back another day.

Yeah, you're being proactive with having all of that there for them. So, you're doing something above and beyond what you'd normally do with customer service. And yeah, you're right. If they still don't want to do it, then you've done everything you can. But you're right. Get ahead of the game and do it at the door instead of chasing them around the store after people complain.

Yeah, yeah. So, to our audience, I hope this is making sense to you and I hope this is of value as well. Again, I strongly suggest We know people in our industries. And we know that when there's a topic, we go, oh, you know what? John needs to hear this. Go ahead and share it. Share the post. This is a way that you could be of service to somebody else. And please feel free to put comments on. Anna, it's nice to see you. Anna is one of our regular followers. She comes in every week. Thank you so much, Anna, for being here. I really appreciate it. And again, if anybody has any comments or questions, pop it in the box and I'll be more than happy with Russ to be able to answer it for you. But ultimately, as you've heard me say probably 1,000 times already, knowledge is power. But it's only powerful if you share it. If you just hoard it to yourself, it has zero power. So Russ, before we get to the whole COVID thing, before the whole COVID thing happened, I saw you speak at the Calgary Hotel Association Conference. And I was intrigued by your philosophy of ENDEAR, which is E-N-D-E-A-R. Could you break that down for the audience?

Sure. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. So, ENDear is an acronym that I made up to help people when they're dealing with difficult customers. There are 6 steps in there. You do not have to follow all 6. Depends on the situation. Depends on the personality type you're dealing with, the time frame you have, if that person's in a rush and you're still trying to make it right. But basically, the first E stands for empathy, something we always need to show our customers. And what it means is jumping on the other side of the counter and putting yourself in their shoes, thinking, how would it feel if I was going through this? Or how does it feel when I'm dealing with a company that I'm not happy with and I'm trying to lodge a complaint? The N stands for needs. We want to find out what their needs are, their specific needs. What I always tell people is grab a pen and paper and say to them, Would you mind if I take notes while you're telling me everything that's happened here? That usually impresses them because nobody does that. The D is for diffusion. Quite often we already know what the answer is before they're finished talking, but if we step on them to come up with a solution, it's going to further frustrate them. So let them get whatever they need to get off their chest. Let them voice it, get it all out there, and then they'll look at you Waiting for an answer, and that's when you can step in with that. The next E is for education, and depending on the business you're in, sometimes you'll have to educate the customer as to how things are done, or, you know, returns of products, how that's handled and everything. The only thing you want to stay away from here is saying, that's not our policy, because you're just going to upset them, or, that's not our procedure. You know, you may have to educate them and say, I know you bought these widgets, um, and I'm going to make an exception this time. We're going to return them, but once you open them and throw the packaging away, we usually don't accept them back, and this is the reason why. Or if you're working for your municipality, I mean, there's obviously lots of laws when people are pulling permits as to, um, what they have to follow and everything like that. So you can just usually tell them what those rules are, and, you know, I don't make the rules, and I agree some of them might seem a little bit harsh, but these are the rules we have to follow in order for you to get to the next step of this permit. The A is very important. It's an apology. And an apology does not mean that you are wrong. It does not admit that you are wrong, but you're apologizing to the person because they're in this situation. I can see how that would really be painful to you. I apologize this has happened. Let's see what we can do to fix it. Now, if you are wrong, you definitely want to apologize just because you should. And a lot of companies don't. They're just like, oh, okay, yeah, mistake was made, let's fix it. And they go on where there's no apology. And I think an apology is a very important part. The R stands for resolve. So after you've done everything else, you want to make sure that the situation is fixed or there's some sort of resolution that's happened where the customer walks away. You've helped them find another supplier if it gets to that point, if you can't help them. So That's basically it in a nutshell, Marc.

Yeah, so it's really interesting because a lot of what you've talked about as far as dealing with kind of this framework is exactly what I mentioned when I talked about responding to reviews. How many times do people lose it when they see the review comes up and they get defensive? And I think part of the challenge that we have when we deal with a customer who's upset is we start taking things personally.

Right.

And our feelings get hurt when somebody, especially if somebody's pointing their finger at you and saying, you guys did this. And then right away, we get onto this defense mode where the minute we start playing the defense, we're losing the game. And so, it's a rather valuable framework. And I will put that in the show notes so people can use it as a checklist. When it comes down to dealing with People, difficult situations like for instance, somebody comes in and starts getting mad because you're asking them to put on a mask or vice versa. That they're coming into the store and they're seeing that maybe your staff are not wearing masks or whatever. Are there any other cautionaries businesses should consider? Like things that— what are the don'ts that they should not do when dealing with difficult customers?

Well, definitely don't antagonize them or roll your eyes or look away. You want to have— you want to make them feel like they are the only person in the room when they're complaining. If you're looking over their shoulder or waving or, you know, typing on your computer or shuffling papers or anything like that, you're just going to further infuriate them. So, that's definitely one of the don'ts. Don't do that. I think you have to make sure you take it very seriously, even though you probably deal with some of these common things every day. To that person, this is, this is huge. So downplaying it and saying, okay, look, you know what, it's not that big a deal— you have to be very, very careful with your wording and how you do it. And the other thing I like to suggest is really know your personalities so that you know how to reply to that person. You may get somebody that's, that's in there and, and they're upset, but they're still pretty friendly and you've known them for a little while and everything. You may be able to put a little bit of a comical twist on it where they will be happy and they will laugh. But if you do that with somebody that you don't know, that's very direct and, look, I need this fixed and I need it fixed now, then you're going to be in trouble with that. So I do encourage people to, to learn about all the different personalities out there. Whatever system you like to do. I do a couple of those training sessions. I'm sure you do as well, Marc. But it's such a key aspect in making sure that we handle customer and employee issues properly is knowing who we're dealing with.

And you hit the nail on the head. This idea of training. I have gone into businesses where I suggest that they train their staff And I don't know about you, but I've heard the whole thing 1,000 times. What happens if I train them and they leave? And then, the response is, what happens if you train them and they stay?

Yeah.

We would not think about letting people handle our cash without knowing that they know how to handle cash. Likewise though, we have this thing that because we figure, oh, customer service. It's people. It's common sense that we don't train it. And you mentioned something about this idea of training people to understand the different kinds of personalities. Can you tell me a little bit about like your training program? How deep do you go into this idea of defining various personality styles?

Well, you know what? When I'm doing customer service training, we usually spend, if we're doing a full day, or even if we're doing a half day, I'll spend about 2 hours on communication because I think that is, is the key to success in any customer service aspect of your business. And that— so there is a wonderful book, it's called The Platinum Rule. I've read that several times, and basically you have your, your extroverts, which are your directors and your socializers, and And you have your introverts, which are your relators and your thinkers. So, um, I've actually got— I think it's 24 questions, different words and everything from their book. And I'm always promoting their book when I'm doing this, but I have people do a self-test, and 95% of the time, uh, it comes out and people are nodding their heads. Yeah, that's me to a T. And they'll ask their people at their table because we do a little group discussion on it, and people go, oh, that's definitely you. Um, so understanding who you are, what personality you fit into is very important as well. Because then you can change the way you respond to a person and that person will go— if you switch modes. So if I'm talking to a socializer and I'm a director, I can just switch to socializer and make it a little bit more fun. And all of a sudden they'll be like, I'm liking this person. They're pretty much like me. We're on the same wavelength here. And it'll go miles in Building relationships, saving relationships. The same when you're dealing with employees as well. Sometimes, I'll talk to managers and they're hitting their head against the wall because, I just can't get through to this person. And it's like, okay. And then you start asking them about this person and what are they like and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, wait, why don't you try this approach? And they'll come back to me and say, that was amazing. It was so simple. I just had to change the way I talked to them.

Yeah.

So, especially young managers when they've been promoted because they've been absolutely fabulous. But they haven't been given any training as like a team leader or a manager. Simple things like that can make a world of difference.

And that was also a subject of one of my previous videos as well, The Guts to Lead. And it's focused on this idea that we promote our best performers because it's like, wow, they're just really great at what they do. Let's make them manager and hopefully, they'll rub off on everybody else. But then, we don't give them leadership training. And then, they flounder and they go, I don't know what I did. I used to be so good. Now, I suck. And it's funny because likewise, when I think communication is a huge key to the training aspect to understand those personality types. But at the same token, one of the things that I teach in my course is I teach about hot buttons. We do a self-evaluation. Find out what is it that pisses you off. Because if you understand where your fuse is short, then you're able then to compensate for it and be able to say, okay, this is the personality that is my arch nemesis. And I'm just going to put my best face forward. And I'm going to use the strategies I learned. And I'm just going to deal with it instead of getting myself my knickers in a twist. Don't want my knickers in a twist.

It hurts. I love that, Marc. And you know what? You thinkers used to drive me nuts. They used to drive me nuts because you'd ask them a question and you'd sit there and it's like, answer the question, answer the question. But they're actually processing what you've said and they're coming up with a logical answer.

Yeah.

So I'm not a very patient person. My wife will tell you that too. But I'm getting better. And I know when I'm dealing with somebody like that, that I have to really, really dig in deep and go, okay, this is going to take a little longer than normal, but to smile and Nod and agree and it'll work.

And then, if you understand that you're impatient as a leader, if you know you're impatient, then having that realization, then it's like, okay, this is the point now where I start getting impatient. So, here's the formula or here's the strategy I'm going to use to be able to give people their time. And I think it was Stephen Covey that said that it's important to give people the attention they need. The level of attention you provide them is as important to you as they are to you. So, if you want to keep your people, then you have to give them all the time and attention. And you really have to care about the outcome as opposed to what we used to do way back when, which was you dangle a carrot and hope everybody jumps for it, right? So, we're gonna have to wrap up. But so, I just wanted to review those 6 steps one more time. The 6 steps to the ENDear Formula. Could you just review them one more time and I'll make sure that they're in the show notes?

All right, I'll shout them out. We've got empathy, needs, diffusion, education, apology, and resolve.

Nice, nice. And so folks, you can get that in the show notes. You can just as a little checklist. If you want to dig deeper into it, then feel free to reach out to Russ. Thank you so much for being on the show today. Again, could you just remind everybody how they can get hold of you? And do you have any kind of timetable? Can anybody call you for anything? What's your plan?

Thank you so much, Marc. Thanks for having me on your show. Thoroughly enjoyed it. You can reach me at russ@russdantoo.com. I'm generally up about 5 in the morning and usually still up about 10 or 11 o'clock at night. I will get back to you. If I don't answer my phone, I do get back to you within 24 hours for sure. Usually, a lot sooner than that unless I'm on an airplane, which isn't happening much right now.

Not happening anytime soon. Anytime soon. Russ, again, thank you so much. I am so grateful that you could be here today to share your knowledge and expertise. And I know it's going to be valuable. And it's funny because before we started up, you said, well, aren't you going to say? Aren't you going to share? And it's like, this is about you. My other ones where I don't have guests, I get to share all the time. So, I love hearing your philosophies. I love hearing your thoughts on this idea of dealing with tough customers. And it was great having you. Thank you so much!

Well, thank you so much, Marc. It was wonderful. Absolutely enjoyed my time here. Thank you!

Thank you! So, why don't you give me a thumbs up if this was of value to you? These are really core skill sets that I think that every business owner needs to not only need for themselves but they need to share with their team. And so, as always, my offer stands. If you would like 30 minutes of my time to brainstorm your business with your team, please feel free to book yourself on my online calendar down below. The link is below. It is meetme.so/MarcHaine. It's important to use the resources you have. And honest to goodness, I make this time— that 30 minutes is about you. It's about your needs. It is not about selling. It's not about shit. It is strictly about me asking you some questions to get to know a little bit about what you're doing. And then, I ask questions to get you and your team to brainstorm solutions. And at the very least, that 30 minutes Maybe you can realize some things. And if along the path, if I see that maybe there's some resource that I can't help you with, I know lots of people in the industry who could help you. And maybe I could then make a recommendation for you. As always, I am at your service. And if you haven't done so yet, why don't you hit the subscribe button down below? Ring the bell. That'll give you first dibs whenever I bring you fresh content of Stuff to help you work on your business, not just in your businesses. And as a little reminder, I kicked off last week. I kicked off my brand new podcast. It's called Experience Leadership. You can look for it on iTunes and on my website that is coming soon. My website is not quite launched yet but it's coming. Folks, I hope you stay healthy, stay safe, and dare to be different. Be the exception.