Revealed: What Really Happens When You Take Your Sales To the Next Level! with Ron Story Jr.

Do you realize that the process of sales has not really evolved over the past 50 years? So many businesses are still driving commission-based competitive sales processes that pit divisions and people against one another. What happens if there is a better way? And that's what we're talking about today on Experience Leadership.

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Welcome to this show! I am so thrilled that you are here with me. My guest for this episode is the man that talks to strangers, Ron Storey Jr. And today, we will be talking about what you can do to build a consistent, scalable sales process. My one ask is that if you like this episode, that you share it with someone you know who could use today's information. Watch an episode of Mad Men or Suits as they struggle to woo clients, manipulate narratives, and teeter on the edge of ethics in order to make the sale. It is absolutely the definition of kind of scuzzy sales definition, salesperson definition. Most people will pooh-pooh the comparison saying that today it's all about relationships. But I hate to break it to you. That's what they said 40 and 50 years ago. It's all about relationships. We're building relationships. When one's livelihood is hanging in the balance, when one's ability to feed their family, pay the mortgage, and have a good life stems from them making their next sale, have we really evolved? In the sales game. And that brings us to our Question of the Day. In your business, how has sales and the sales process evolved for you? I'd love for you to be part of the conversations. Why don't you go ahead, share this episode on your favorite platform, and then put in the comments, #ExperienceLeadership And put your comments down. How has the sales process evolved for you in your business? As I mentioned, my guest today is Ron Storey Jr. Ron has been a full-time entrepreneur for over 20 years and has been instrumental in the creation, development, and leadership of over 30 companies. His corporate background includes sales management at insurance titans like Allstate and Farmers Insurance, He is the founder of 5 Contacts, a sales outreach company that helps companies install scalable cold outreach systems into their sales process. He is the author of a book titled The First 100 Miles, which challenges business owners to recognize the opportunities in front of them and offer practical ways to grow faster. Ron, welcome to the show. It is so great to have you here.

Thanks for having me. I'm glad to be a guest on The Marc Haine Show.

Thank you. Before we get into today's topic, could you just tell us a little bit about how you serve your clients?

Yeah. So I help our clients to rethink the sales process and the sales paradigm. Most salespeople start off as a commission-only salesperson, which I think has its pros and its cons. And what we do is try to demonstrate how going to a salary and bonus structure can both benefit the salesperson and ultimately drive more profitability inside of the company that uses that system.

Why do you think this idea of developing scalable sales processes is such an important topic today?

Well, I, I think it's important because as we see, most companies, they're driving top line, but the bottom line isn't always growing, right? And a lot of times we'll see that a company will have sales roller coasters, especially small businesses. And most of the time it's because they don't have a consistent way to drive leads. And they don't have a way to get consistent performance out of those who are selling on their teams. So, you'll have a segment of people that are winning a lot and a segment of people that are struggling a lot. But we know that the most profitability is that if you can get everybody up to a baseline mean average so that nobody is really outperforming everybody and nobody is really underperforming everybody. But everybody is right on a predictable outcome based on The system, not on the salesperson's skills.

Right. And to your point, I mean, I mentioned Mad Men and Suits more tongue-in-cheek than anything else, but it was really pretty amazing. Like, whenever you watch the episode of how sales used to happen, it used to happen by taking people for dinner and plying them with tons of alcohol, maybe going golfing or a strip club or something, anything to make them really like you. But then what ends up happening is you end up doing things that really border on this idea of ethics. And I do know that in team dynamics, when you have commission-based salespeople working, it becomes people chasing after the almighty dollar in spite of what might happen internally within the division, within the team frame. So, when you think about that, you and I talked before and you were talking about this idea of sales processes. Why is it that now people are turning around and saying, well, we need to change the way we do things?

Well, I think because they're starting to understand that it's starting to create competition inside of the company. The last thing that a new company needs is strife inside of the company, right? So, I can give you an example of I worked for a company and I was a consultant. And I went out and I generated 100 closed deals. But we needed help to onboard them because I couldn't onboard 100 new clients by myself immediately. So, I went to the current sales team that was there at the time. And I said, hey, hey guys, I'm just a consultant. Can you help me to onboard these 100 new clients? And the response was, I'm not getting paid on those. So, no, do it yourself. But if we weren't on commissions, right, if they weren't working on a commission-only basis, then that would have never happened. We would have worked as a team. to onboard those 100 people. And we all would have shared in a bonus on top of our salaries because we all met our team goal versus our individual goal. So, in that case, the individual's personal ego got in the way of what was best for the company. Yeah.

Well, to your point, it's competition versus collaboration. So, in your experience, because people were looking at my livelihood is tied to me making this money, And so, since I'm not getting a bite of your commission, I need to concentrate on where I'm going to make money, which is natural. It's human. What you're suggesting then is there's a more collaborative approach in order to make that happen.

Yeah. Well, we see it. Now, most people will think of the insurance industry, which is where most of my— the main portion of my experience comes from, as a commission-driven industry. But in reality, it's not. The main person who owns the office At an Allstate or Farmers is on commission. But the person who's actually doing the transactions is an hourly employee. So, we think that that person is getting commission, but they're not. They're an hourly employee that gets to share in a bonus if they hit their goals. What does that create? It creates an environment of collaboration. So, it doesn't matter who comes in the door. They're not fighting over the new person that comes in the door. It's the next man up. It's just a round robin because Everybody wins if they hit their goal for the month as a team.

Yeah.

And most people don't know that because we think of, well, it's a Farmers Insurance agent. So, at the top, the guy is getting paid commission. Yeah, but he's not closing the deals. It's his assistants and his SDRs out front that are actually closing the deal as hourly employees.

It's funny that you say that because my wife and I are shopping for a new couch. And we went into a furniture store. And there had to be 15 salespeople just mulling around like little bees watching the door as they come in. Right. And then as soon as you step in, somebody's there to, to jump on you and say, hi, what are you looking for today? And it's like, oh, we're just looking around. And you could see everybody just, okay, who's gonna get this one person? Right.

Exactly. And that, you know, survive or die mentality, the customer can feel it, right? The customer feels that energy. They can feel that you're thirsty and that you're hungry. And they start to believe that their incentives, the incentives of the salesperson doesn't align with what's in the best interest of the customer.

Yeah. And you, to your point, you can so see it because when we walked in and we had an appointment to meet somebody and we walked in and they go, ah, how can we help you today? I said, I'm here to see Zaheer. And he goes, he's over there. It went from being super friendly all of a sudden to be dismissed, right? It's like, he's over there. So, so you really do tell, you can really tell. In the confines of the process. When you're thinking about this idea of having a more collaborative approach to sales, are there any myths that we should be aware of when it comes to this new era of sales?

Well, I think that the first thing that most companies, the first mistake that they make is that they keep the salesperson in charge of the 3 roles, which is lead generation, closing, and servicing. I think that there are three different personalities that fit those roles. So unless you want a schizophrenic salesperson, you probably should separate that into three different roles and have three different people doing it, right? So the biggest myth that I see is believing that the salesperson can do all three roles effectively. Because if I'm very good at generating leads, I'm probably not that good at closing because it's a different psychological makeup. If I'm really good at servicing, I'm probably not a good lead generator because. I'm not used to dealing with the rejection that the lead generation person is used to dealing with. So, the biggest thing is to separate those into 3 different roles just like we do in our office, right? Can you imagine having a commission-based receptionist? It would be ridiculous, right? Because their role is clearly defined. In most sales organizations, the roles of sales, if they're commission-based, isn't clearly defined. So, they may have a sales process but everybody's doing it their own way. And they're doing the thing that they like the most, most often. So, if I'm really into servicing, I'm not going to do a bunch of lead gen. I'm going to be making sure my clients think I'm the best and everything. If I'm really good at lead gen, I don't care about the servicing part. I just want to get the leads and show that I can generate demand for the product. So, if we could democratize the sales process just like we've clearly defined what a receptionist does, we don't need commissions anymore. Because who's responsible for the commission? Is it the lead gen? Is it the closer? Or is it the servicer?

It's all 3. It's all part of the whole. It's interesting because I'm sure some people would be tuning in and thinking, well, that's all fine. But when I deal with my client, I want to take them through the whole process because It's a relationship because he'll know who to turn to. I'll guarantee that he'll come back to me. Is that a valid concern?

Well, I think that that's great if you only want to have 20 clients, right? How do you do that with 5,000 people, right? So if you want to grow beyond a certain stage, you need to have a system that allows for scalability. So let's say, for instance, I have the personality of being a really good lead generator.

Okay.

Right? So, if I can generate 100 leads a day, there's no way that I could service 100 leads myself or actively close 100 leads. So, if I'm generating 100 leads with my activities and the average salesperson can do 10 meetings a day, that means I need 10 account executives. Right? So now, I can scale up based on the skills. So, I may only need one lead generator for 5 account execs, right? So, that's the difference. That's where the difference is made. So now, I can be as good as I need to be in each area and scale up my team accordingly. But if I feel like I need to talk to everyone, well, I'm going to generate leads today, generate 100 meetings. I'm going to have to stop doing that because now I have to run 100 meetings. And then, when I run 100 meetings and I close 25 of them, now I got to stop doing those 2 things so that I could service them, I could never compete with the guy who's doing it like I'm doing it where I have a lead generator, account executives, and service people.

If you don't mind, what I'd like to do is I'd like to delve into what your definition of the 3 kinds of personalities required to do those jobs. Because I think it would really help the people tuning in to understand that they need to look for different people in these roles. And if you can help By defining that, that would be great. And we'll do that right after this. When the spotlight shines on your business, are customers applauding or yawning? In other words, how is your business performing? Make your business a star with a new book, Lights! Camera! Action!, Business Operational Excellence Through the Lens of Live Theater by Marc Haine. Marc uses his business and acting experience to help you see your business like a live show so you can create a Performance your customers will never forget.

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today at your favorite online retailer or directly at marchaine.com. I am having a great discussion with sales guru Ron Storey Jr. This is fascinating because you've just opened up this whole Pandora's box now that basically saying that in order to do what we used to do 50 years ago where we would have one person kind of doing it all but doing it in very limited ways, that you would really need to have that one person really finding those whales in order to really sustain any kind of livelihood for themselves, for the company, and so on. But this idea of defining 3 different roles within the sales process, can we dig a little bit deeper into what the roles are, what they need, and what kind of personalities should people be looking out for in order to fill those roles?

Well, so I think that let's look at the 3 roles. It's a lead generator, an account executive, and a customer service person, right? Customer success is what we call it, right? So, on the lead generation side, it's a tech-driven person. Someone who understands emails, funnels. They want to build all of these tech systems. But they don't want to talk to anybody. They're really good at doing the outreach or setting up the Facebook ads to drive demand and bring people in. But they don't really want to talk to anyone. What they end up doing is they're queuing the person up for the account executive. So, your first person is nowadays the best person on the front end generating leads is a tech-enabled person that is kind of an introvert. But he loves to build systems and see those systems work to perfection. Right? The second person in that situation is an account executive. This is the person who wants to be in the deal, meeting people, introducing himself, talking about the product, Understanding the customer, listening to what their needs are. They're a natural problem solver. That's your account executive in the middle. And the third person is the customer success person. This is the person that does not want to deal with rejection of people telling them no. They may not be tech-enabled, but they're the person that's going to give that customer the hug and the service that they need on the backside in order to keep them as a customer for life. Tech-enabled person doesn't want to talk to them. The person who likes to meet new people doesn't want to keep meeting with the person over and over because they've already closed the deal. And the service person doesn't want to do the first 2 jobs. Those are the 3 personalities.

And so, the last job that they also take care of after service, right? They are the continual kind of face of the company once the deal is done and once the product is delivered and so on.

Exactly. So all of the upsells or providing of new service products and services comes through the customer success person, right? They don't need to be closed again. They've already been closed.

Yeah.

They're just placing orders with that person at that point. It's no longer a rejection-based situation like the account executive faces.

And so in your model then, how do you create accountabilities? Because obviously it's gonna be team-based. If the account executive isn't, isn't really scoring or playing at the level of the other 2 people on the team. How do you create those accountabilities? How do leaders look at that and go, this is where I have a weakness?

Well, the first thing that we have to look at is that it's not a 1-to-1-to-1 relationship.

Right.

Right? That's what it used to be. It used to be 1/3 of the salesperson was this, like it was his head, his heart, and his feet. Right? Your head generated the leads. Your heart serviced them. Your feet was the, you know, out there closing the deals or whatever. Right?

Yeah.

Now, it could be 1 to 10 to 3. So, my— if my lead gen guy is really good, I may need 10 account execs to run those meetings. What we do then is we look at the average closing ratio for those executives in order to determine what the baseline is and where everyone should be performing. Now, with technology like Balto Software and Gong, we can use artificial intelligence to coach everybody up. to raise the baseline of everybody so that we no longer have these star performers and underperformers. Gong and Balto will coach everyone up to the baseline with standardized sales scripts so that now our service people, we can scale them up and down too based on how many deals are being closed. So, it's no longer that one-to-one-to-one relationship. It's a one-to-as-many-as-needed relationship.

Right. And then, everybody's got that definition. So, if the lead gen If it's a high-value product where you know that you're only gonna score, you know, 1 in 200 people that you're gonna lead connect with are going to, are going to jump on, you might need to have multiple lead gens for the one account executive even. It's up to the user essentially to define kind of how that ratio will work to keep it the most efficient.

Yeah. And I think that that brings up the biggest reason why most people went to commission-based selling. It's because the entrepreneur didn't clearly define what the sales process should have been.

Yeah.

So, they were basically doing the spaghetti against the wall. Hire someone on commission. See what they end up doing. And then, we'll just hire more of them versus going in and clearly developing what the sales process should be so that they could have predictable results over the long term, not just low-cost results, low-risk results in the short term.

Right, right, right. So, it's almost like more quality. As to your point, the whole— for people who don't know the metaphor spaghetti on the wall, you throw spaghetti on the wall and see what sticks is the metaphor. So, as opposed to just reaching out to— I use billboards as an example of that. Somebody put up a billboard, how many people will see that billboard? And out of everybody who sees that billboard, how many of them would turn into buyers?

Right.

And then, so you really have to be very strategic because to put up a billboard on a major highway, it's gotta be $100,000, right? It's expensive. It's not a cheap way to go. And so what you're doing is you're saying, let's be more strategic at the onset in order to drive the leads, push them to another set of people, and then from there, get the people who've got the real magic to be able to support them long-term. I love it.

Yeah. Well, I mean, I've found that over time, it depends on what you're building. Right? If you're just trying to build a one-person hot dog stand, you don't need this, right? Just push your cart out there, take orders, put ketchup and mustard on it, right? If you're trying to build a couple-million-dollar business, you can probably survive with the commission-only sales guys and you'll be happy. But if you're trying to build a large enterprise, multiple $10 million business, it's probably better that you invest the time upfront to understand what's driving the metrics. And then put those systems in place in order to scale up to your goals. Once you've put in the systems, it's very hard to undo it because everybody has been incentivized to do it the wrong way from the beginning.

Right.

Right? So, if you're just starting off, that could break your system, right? If you're already established, that could break your system.

Sure.

But if you're just starting off, you can put these railroad tracks down at the beginning that will change everything going Yeah, this is absolutely fascinating.

Ron, can you give everybody a heads up on how they can get in touch with you if this is resonating with them?

Yeah. So what we do is we help you to build a scalable front end, the lead generation side of that business. And you can find me on any social media at R-O-N-S-T-O-R-Y-J-R, Ron Story Jr. Those are all of my social media handles. Or you can go to our website, www.5contacts.com.

Terrific.

5 as in the number contacts.com.

Terrific. Thank you. As you were kind of uncovering this, of course, I always have to fall back to the old mindset, the people who will always cause the argument of trying to figure out, this is the way we've always done it. We've always seen success. Yes, we want to grow. But I can imagine that somebody might be tuning into this and saying, there are real problems with this idea of standardizing because You know, some people might look at it and go, would standardizing a human process like sales limit people's ability to adjust and pivot to the client's needs if you're pushing things out and I'm no longer accountable?

Well, I mean, how human is the process when you buy from Amazon?

Exactly.

You don't talk to anybody. There's no human involved. Right. But they've standardized the, the buying process to make it— they know their metrics, they know where they put things in order to get you to buy.

Yes.

How, you know, so we buy things online all the time without talking to a human. So the idea that it's a human process, even insurance, you can go online and just buy insurance now. You don't need to talk to anybody, whether it's car insurance or life insurance, right? So usually that's just a human bias that the person has because they're trying to protect themselves.

I see that. But pushing back a little bit, I see that. But there are some still some services out there you need to have a trusted advisor. So somebody like insurance or investments or whatever, yes, you can go and buy it on your own. But I think the big demand in the marketplace is that we still have these trusted advisors to help educate people on things they don't know.

Yeah. Let's look at a company like Fidelity. Right? Fidelity retirement accounts.

Okay.

Right? Or any other financial advisory company. Right? They're running their ads, and they're generating leads for people to come in. to their offices, right? And when they meet with an advisor, that advisor is just the account executive. They didn't run the ads on the television. They didn't do anything to generate the lead. The advisor is in the middle handling the demand. And you know what happens? Those ads are so great that they got thousands of advisors across the country to handle the leads from the ad flow, right? So, it's already being standardized by the big companies. We already see it. We just don't attribute it to them.

Gotcha.

Right?

Yeah. I can imagine that some people would need to look at their business model right now and figure out and say, well, that to your point, like if you already have a process in place and you already have, let's say, commission-based salespeople, and it's like, this is gonna be a heck of a shakeup if we try to implement something like this on many different levels. I'd really love to uncover some steps that people can take to set up standardized sales processes. And we'll get to that right after this.

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Welcome back! I am speaking with Sales Strategist Ron Storey Jr. As you can tell, Ron and I are passionate about serving entrepreneurs and business managers just like you. So, if you are planning a business or a leadership retreat, a conference, or a training day and you think we could be of service, why don't you reach out to us? You can connect with us. Our connection info is in the show notes down below. For those people wanting to explore setting up a standardized sales process, maybe they're a well-established company, a department, but they know that there are people doing it better. What are some of the steps that they need to consider to start kind of making that transition? Because to your point, it's going to be a painful thing if they're already commission-based like food reps and all this sort of stuff. It's going to be a tough transition for them to move over into something like this.

Yeah. So, I think the first thing is to find out what are the best practices for each stage of the sales process. What are the best practices on the lead gen side? What are the best practices on the account executive side? And what's the best practices for customer success, that portion of the sales process? Once you have those best practices, send those best practices out to your salespeople, even those that are currently on commission, right? And they're handling all 3 of them. Your initial response, I almost guarantee you, will be, man, this is a lot of stuff to do. Right? So, which proves that they're not operating at their optimal level because they're not following the best practices. But now that you have those best practices, ask your salespeople, which one of these would you like to never do again? Right? And what you'll find is that some of them will say, I don't want to deal with lead gen. So, you find someone to help them with that.

Yeah.

What you'll find is some people say, I don't want to do any servicing. So, you find someone to help them with that. Now, you find out where your best people are optimized. Now, you can just move them into the positions that they want to be in. If I say, I just want to do lead gen, well, just make me a lead gen guy and I'll let Marc close the deals and I'll let Bethany service them on the backside. But you can almost allow them to choose which best practices fit them best.

I love that. And so, you're now opening it up. And so, for the leaders who are tuning into this, nothing is more magical than letting people play in their zone of genius. And so, that is essentially, Ron, what you're suggesting is find out where people's zone of genius is. Maybe they don't want to go through the whole thing. And there are parts of their job that they despise and is a chore for them to do and break it out. And to that point, when you talk about the standard operating procedures, if you involve the employees, That could also be rather magical, couldn't it?

Yeah, because they know what works best most of the time, right? So, I always tell people CRMs were not designed for salespeople. CRMs were designed for sales managers to watch over salespeople. So, that's why most salespeople hate the CRM, right? But they know what the best practices are even if they're not documenting them. And a lot of times, they're beat over the head if they don't follow what the person is telling them to do. So, they keep their personal best practices to themselves so that they can stay at the top of the leaderboard in a commission-driven competitive environment.

Yes.

So, I have no incentive to tell Marc my secret 11 herbs and spices if it's going to make me the number 2 salesperson next week. Right? But if I can eliminate that and show how everybody will do better working as a team because we'll all be in our optimal positions, Then it makes sense.

It would really build up the efficiency because I could, again, I could see territorial personalities who are like, I've been doing this for years. This is my— there's no way I'm splitting my commission 3 ways and all that. But when you think about the efficiency that that would create, all of a sudden you have those 3 people who are generating 4 times basically what they did individually when you brought them together. I mean, it's— this becomes super efficient.

Yeah, it's taking something that a gentleman named Henry Ford invented called the assembly line.

Yeah.

Right? And putting it into the sales system. It's the only position in the company that hasn't been standardized. Right.

It's the only position. Yep. Yeah. And because we were locked into that mindset of, one person taking people through the whole sales process pillar to post. Yeah.

And that made sense when the companies aren't well capitalized.

Yeah.

Right? And you're just trying to survive. But if you're really trying to thrive, you probably should be investing in standardizing the processes so that you can compete. Because I promise you, your competitors have standardized their processes and they just have leads coming in. So, they just hire more account executives and And as they close more deals, they just hire more customer success people. That's how these software companies grow so fast. They just don't tell the brick-and-mortar companies that that's the secret.

Well, and, and to that point, you know, when you have a software startup, you know, you have 2 or 3 people starting off doing all the work, but then at some point it's like, okay, well, you can't do marketing and product development and sales, so we have to bring in a marketer. And one of the biggest challenges that we've seen in startups is a lot of the relationship breakdown of the initial stakeholders is because all of a sudden somebody else is coming in and doing the job that I love to do. And this can be a little bit of a challenge in the transition. Are there any cautionaries when people start thinking about this idea of putting standardized sales processes together?

Well, I can show you the thing that it eliminates. The main thing is if I control the lead gen, the closing, and the servicing of the customer. When I leave the company, who does the customer have the relationship with? The company or me? Right? They have the relationship with me. So, they're probably going to follow me to wherever I go if I'm working at one of your competitors. And trust me, your competitors are trying to recruit your top people already. Right? But if you standardize the process and someone tries to take your lead gen guy, that's okay. The The customer's safe because they're with the customer success person. If the person tries to take the account executive, if the account executive leaves and wants to start his own business, well, he's not good at doing the other 2 jobs. So the chances of him being a real competitor is very small because he would have to go back into being schizophrenic again, right, and doing all 3 jobs. So I think that by standardizing the process, you de-risk your sales model because the intellectual capital doesn't leave when that main 3-person salesperson leaves. It's de-risked. It's separated into 3 different jobs.

I can imagine, you know, making a transition as well that there would be some learning capacity challenges for the leaders themselves. Could you just speak to what leaders can expect when they start looking at this? What are some of the pitfalls they might see?

Well, I think the main pitfall is their own biases.

Right.

And the biases of those who are winners in their system already. You will get pushback from the current winners because the current winners are always winning. But the losers will support you. And the losers, not calling them real, like, as if they're losing, but the people who aren't winning, they're not winning because they're not in what they're optimally designed to do. So you'll get some pushback from the people at the top that are eating more than everyone else. But if you look at your business over the long term and see what's in the best interest for you, you'll realize that it's better if everybody rises and it's standardized.

Right. It's almost— I get the feeling of what Simon Sinek calls the infinite game. When you start playing an infinite game, your mindset is entirely different than this idea of winning or losing. So fascinating, Ron. This has been such a fascinating conversation. I'm like, my zone of genius is not sales. I've had to jump into sales because I'm a solopreneur. And to your point, I end up having to do it all. But I really appreciate this conversation because it gives me an understanding of as a business owner, what should I be looking forward to? What should I strive to do? And so, thank you for that. Could you remind everybody one more time how they can get a hold of you?

So, you can find me on all social media @RonStoryJr. That's the handle. And if you would like for us to help you to build out or to even think through this process, FiveContacts.com.

Wonderful! Before we sign off, do you have any last thoughts about what we've been talking about today?

Before you deny it, give it a thought. Think through it. Sit down with someone. Think through how this may be optimized for your business. The question I would always ask, what if you had 10,000 clients that wanted to do business with you tomorrow? Could you do it in your current system? If you can't, it may need some standardizing.

Right. And to your point, I've supported the fact. I mean, I put this podcast directly together because I wanted to expose experts to the audience. And so, If this is— if you have this pushback in your brain that this doesn't compute, doesn't make sense, pick up the phone, make an appointment to meet with Ron. I'm sure Ron will give you 30 minutes, no problem, to help clarify your thinking and answer your questions because there seems to be something magical about this idea of all boats, all the tide raises all boats. And I think that's really what you've been speaking to today. Ron, I want to thank you so much for sharing your passion and your expertise with us. Thank you so much for being here. It's been absolutely phenomenal.

Thanks for having me.

Why don't you let me know if this was of value to you? As always, my offer stands. If you would like 30 minutes of my time to brainstorm your business with you and your team, feel free to book time on my online calendar. The link is down below. It's the one that's marked meetwith.marchaine. It would be my absolute honor for me to be of service to you. And if you haven't done so yet, why don't you go ahead and subscribe to this podcast? That way you get notifications whenever I bring you a new episode, which is every single week. Also, I'd love to get your feedback. Was this of value to you? Feel free to leave a review wherever you're consuming this information. Again, thank you so much for investing your time in hanging out with us. I hope it was of value. And I hope that you can come back, play with us, learn more. And please, please, please share the information. My name is Marc Haine. I hope that you stay safe. I hope you stay healthy. And I hope you dare to be the exception.

Thank you for joining us this week on Experience Leadership. Make sure you visit marchaine.com for a full directory of available episodes. While you're at it, if you found today's content valuable, please share it and tell your friends about the show. As Marc says, knowledge is power, but only if you share it. Be sure to tune in each week for the newest episode. Episode. Please stay safe, stay healthy, and dare to be the exception.