The Secret to Scaling a Business Without Burning Out

Most businesses don't fail because of one big mistake. They fail because of 1,000 small ones repeated daily. Leaders get busy, priorities shift, systems break down, and before you know it, you're not running your business anymore. Your business tends to be running you. And that's what we're talking about today on Marc Haine Live. Welcome to this episode of Marc Haine Live. Of course, this is where small business owners and entrepreneurs pick up some core skill sets to help them create the show-stopping, jaw-dropping experience that their customers and their employees deserve. I am your host, Customer and Employee Experience I'm Marc Haine and I'm so glad that you're here with me today because my guest today is Scott Abbott. And today, we are talking about how to build, run, and scale a great company while actually living a great life. So, the price of admission today is please make sure that you're subscribed to this podcast. That way, you'll get notified when we bring you fresh new episodes each and every week with Great new guests, new experts to help us work on our business, not in our business. And please make sure you go ahead and share this episode with your circle of people who you know could use it. I'd love to see the business community really rallying around the work I've been doing for the last 297 episodes. And it's free. So, please make sure you go ahead and share it. Okay, so let's be honest. Most leaders didn't sign up for chaos. Business owners started their businesses with a dream, with aspirations, with a goal in the future. But somewhere along the way, the businesses got complicated, right? Decisions got messy. Consistency, well, That became a nice-to-have. And that brings us to our Question of the Day. So, where in your business are you relying on good intentions instead of clear, consistent systems And what is that costing you right now? What is it costing your business? I'd love for you to share your comments with us and be part of this conversation. Go ahead and share this episode on your favorite social media platform. Hashtag it #ExperienceLeadership and put your comments down and be part of this conversation. As I mentioned, my guest today is Scott Abbott. And Scott is an architect, builder, and custodian of high-performing customers. Companies who are his customers. With more than 35 years of experience, he has launched, scaled, and exited multiple businesses, raised over $35 million in venture capital, and led organizations generating billions and billions of dollars in revenue. He's a 4-time bestselling author of Boss Up, Boss Up Moments, Level Up, and Co+Factor. And today, serves as the founder and CEO Executive coach, investor, and board member. Scott's work lives at the intersection of disciplined business operating systems and human potential, helping leaders create clarity, alignment, and sustainable performance in a rapidly changing world. Scott, welcome to the show. It's so great to have you.

Marc, thanks for having me on the show today. And I'm humbled by that introduction. Don't deserve most of it. But—

Oh, please.

I appreciate the words.

That's what all great leaders say. It's like, oh well, you know, it's just what I do. So, let's start off a little bit, Scott. Maybe dig a little bit deeper into who your clients are and how you serve them.

Yeah. So, most recently over the last 15 years or so, my primary passion, specialization, purpose, cause, and income has been around helping small startups, mid-market companies leverage a tailored system to run their business. We call that a business operating system or BOS. And I've got an organization I created along with some great partners like 90R Software, and we've got about 125 coaches around the planet right now. We call it the Boss Up Coaching Solution Academy. It's a blend of materials, resources, support, templates, frameworks to literally help people learn what we call the essential concepts, tools, and disciplines to build, run, and scale a great company. And ideally, be better versions of themselves too. So, it's both business work and life. Before that, I was in systems for my entire career, mostly technology enterprise, working with companies like Microsoft and IBM and SAP and Oracle. So, I've always been in the system space, but over the last 15 years, really got a passion for the humanization, not just the technology side. And then recently, with the advent of AI, Although I got to tell you a true story. My last class of college in '89, I had a course on AI, and I was actually part of the IBM Watson team that literally helped create materials for the Jeopardy! show when Watson, the AI computer from IBM, was on the show, if people remember. So, AI is not new, but certainly with the advent of ChatGPT and the commercialization. So, today, my passion and purpose and world is around, again, Systemization but really ensuring that the humans come along for the ride. And ideally, they continue to become and evolve the best they could be so they can live a good life on, as you said earlier, on the business and their world and also in. So, that's what I do these days.

Yeah, I love that. So, through your experiences, when you look at businesses that struggle, what are some of the common threads that you're seeing today?

Well, I think you said it at the start. Most people don't, even entrepreneurs, I don't think say, hey, I want to be an entrepreneur for the sake of being an entrepreneur. There's usually— that's a leading rationalization, not a lagging.

Mm-hmm.

So, I think ultimately, they don't come in with, let's call it, a systems mindset appreciating the importance of some of the more needed elements that the companies that were before them, these things called systems and process and protocol and the need for management and measurements and reporting. And one of the funnest things people love to do is meet, right? So, I think a lot of startups and founders understandably have this more romanticized vision that they can just go out and do it. And between their passion and their energy and their purpose and just their vim and vigor. And then, they start to realize that especially if they do get some traction, hey, we need to do some things that are possibly even more old-fashioned. We need to meet and collaborate and report and keep score. I hate it when I hear, why did you start your company? And people say, because I didn't want to work for anybody. Well, because you're working for your clients, your employees, yourself, your family.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I just think reality, Marc, comes into the world. Believe it or not, I've seen growth and success cover a lot of sins. And then also, why people are like, hey, I'm slow. I'm not generating what I want. And often, it's because they're not focused on looking at the business holistically, right?

Mm-hmm.

They think it's just a product issue or a sales issue or a people issue or a process issue. Well, the answer typically is it's both. So, yeah, I think just the classics, Marc, or the majority of them, time, focus, energy, they get it, they want it, they got it. So, I just say it's more of the general realities that startups and entrepreneurs and founders have that it takes to build, run, and scale. And a lot of people just kind of assume they can worry about some of that more historic infrastructure-type blocking and tackling down the road. And sometimes down the road, it's too late.

It's interesting because when you said about, and then you found out, oh well, we have to meet. How much of what entrepreneurs, startups, and business people, how much of what they do is because they think that that's what they have to do rather than actually understanding the why they have to do it? Does that make sense?

It does. Well, and it's one of the reasons we're in the world today, right? Both both our books, our materials, and myself.

Yeah.

Again, respectful to most people, good intentions, and you said this earlier, are not always so good. They can get you into trouble, right? Be quick, but don't hurry. You think it's about the product and you downplay the importance of marketing and sales, or you think it's more about the culture and you dismiss the reality of productization and performance and operations, right? So, I really think it's about having an appreciation of all of the, what I would call, the essential concepts, tools, and disciplines. Again, depending on your stage, we believe there are 5 stages of companies from startup to publicly traded Fortune 500. So, typically, stage 1 and 2, you're frenzied, you're working 18-hour days, and understandably, You're busting your butt and you don't have time for a lot of the classic things that you get in stage 3, stage 4. Stage 1 is really about energy. Stage 2 is about people. And stage 3 is about systems. And then, after you get that, then it's also about making sure that you don't get encumbered by systems and red tape and bureaucracy. Those go into stage 4 and stage 5. So, yeah, I would just think for most people, And I use the word classic even though we're in 2026. We want to be modern and today and beyond. But some of the fundamental reasons why people don't get from here to there are really not so earth-shaking. They just sort of don't know how to compartmentalize and just appreciate this blend of systems and soul and purpose and profit and process and passion and how to put it all together.

I love that, the alliteration. Lots of Ps there. Are there, as people are tuning in, are there any early warning signs that a business might be drifting off course? Because again, with people kind of really focused kind of the day-to-day minutiae, I think we lose sight of kind of exactly what you alluded to before. All these different aspects of our business that are equally important. But we don't think they're important because we have a crisis in front of our eyes.

So, what early warning Besides cash flow and no pipeline? But seriously, I would say the problem is with most businesses, they think the healthiness, again, of let's call it cash flow, the balance sheet, monetary success is what's in their checking account. Well, the problem if that's your main source of both validation and understanding, it's already too late, right? So, we have a concept when it comes to KPIs, key performance indicators. Most people are measuring what we call lagging. What did we sell? What did we pay? What did we save? But really, what you want to focus on are the leading indicators. What are the actions and activities we want to make sure get done so that we generate the results we should generate, right? You don't result into result and you don't fall into failure. You moment into them. So, we're very, in our solution, insistent that, yes, we love goals. Yes, we love OKRs, objectives and key results. But what we really want to do is trust but verify. It's one of our agreement-based commitments that you're doing the daily work. And especially if it's the good work, following standards and And ensuring that people know what's going on, you're on the same page. Again, it sounds like boring stuff, especially to the more entrepreneurial startup era that they're kind of more enamored with Scrum and Agile and just do it. I get it. That's good for the vibe, but in reality, that could get you into trouble. So, I would say, yeah, your classics are your balance sheet, your pipeline, challenge, literally paying bills and getting people to buy. But the way to overcome that isn't just to hope for change. You need to go back and say, okay, what aren't we doing?

Yeah.

Again, I love the concept of on, but it's an and both. It's in and on, right? It's head and heart. It's systems and soul.

Yes.

So, the on needs to appreciate that we're going to stop every now and then and make sure we're doing the in stuff right. And if you don't schedule the on and you're just heads down and you're plowing away, you're not seeing the storms up front or you're not paying attention to the disruptions in the market or the people that are getting frustrated with you. So, you got to kind of keep your wits about you. And that's why systems are really good. The founder of Four Seasons, Isidor Sharp, has a wonderful quote, and it's, systemize the predictable to humanize the exceptional.

I love that.

And counterintuitive to a lot of people, the better your systems, the more you actually liberate yourself to focus on what you want to focus on, if that's sales, if that's marketing, if that's product. Even Jim Collins has got a great line, right? Magic happens when the spirit of entrepreneurship meets a culture of discipline. So, I would just argue that most companies in my experience kind of tended to go to an either/or when in reality, it's an and/both.

So, it seems to me just by what you've said, it seems to me that there seems to be a clash of what? Effort and systems. Is it fair to say that people aren't balancing the two? That they're focused more on, I'm gonna put all my effort in to generate the sales to do so and so on. Then, they don't take the investment of time to generate the systems to smooth that out. Is that a fair assessment?

100%. And again, I said, and both versus either/or. And we've all heard this concept of work-life balance. I happen to think, just think about balance, right? If you're trying to balance on a ball or a teeter-totter, you're always kind of uncomfortable. I prefer the word harmony because we're gonna have seasons. We're gonna have good days and bads, highs and lows. You want to make God laugh? Tell Him your plans. I mean, There's just things we can't control, but we want to control the controllables. And so, ideally, it's this blend of, again, good systems, good structure, good rules. You have a culture that agrees to values and standards and principles, right? So, it's kind of like a— I equate running a business like having a great brick home. The bricks are the content, the physical tangible assets, and the mortar is the contextual. The behaviors, the style, the taste, the touch, the feel, and you need both, right? Bricks without mortar, just a pile of bricks, and mortar without bricks, just a pile of goop. And then, you need these things called humans if you want to make it a home. And humans, right, have good days and bad. So, again, I think the character and the— and then, you add AI into the mix today, and we all know there's good and bad there. There's pluses and minuses.

Mm-hmm.

But I do think if you get your head around it, the pluses right now are better than the minuses. I think some of this, we're just kind of rushing ahead of ourselves in terms of the downsides. But yeah, I would just come back and say a lot of people struggle with the harmonization of systems, production, sales, marketing, culture. And if you're a leader, I truly believe, a founder, and you do want to build, run, grow, scale a great company. Now, if you just want to have a nice little business that's a solopreneur or a side hustle and you're making money and you don't have to worry about it, great. You do you. But if you want to build something of substance and legacy that could have enterprise value that somebody else wants to buy, they don't just want to buy you and what you've done and what you could do. They want to buy an asset that can exist and be extended above and beyond what you're doing. And so, that's why systems matter too.

Right.

It's not just to help you be better day in and day out, but it's also to ensure that somebody else can take over if something bad happens to you or if you decide to exit. Sell the company and move on.

Right. So, to that point, I'd love to uncover how leaders can leverage and even give them some tools to help them leverage systemization while maintaining humanization. And we'll get to that right after this. You remember the moment. That speaker who made the whole room lean forward, who said exactly the right thing at the right time. That doesn't happen by accident. It happens through curation. Elite Headline Speakers is a boutique speaker curation service. We find the voice that fits your event like it was made for it. Visit eliteheadlinespeakers.com. Elite Headline Speakers. The right voice. Your stage.

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Welcome back! I hope you're getting lots of value today. I'm speaking with Scott Abbott. Scott, you have a booklet. You mentioned it in our previous segment. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your book?

Yeah, well, I think it's a combo pack. Yeah, you can see it. So, the blue book, Boss Up, I go back to the metaphor of the house or a car. That's the engineering. That's the mechanics. That's the chassis in a car, the foundation to a house. And it basically is a framework. It's a framework to take the fundamental attributes and benefits of a great business operating system that's tailored to meet you where you're at, take you to where you want to go. We also have tucked in a very practical yet proven approach to incorporating AI into the organization and the importance of coaching, not just because there are Boss Up coaches in the world that can help you learn, implement, and benefit from Boss Up, but we really are trying to encourage the owners to think like coaches. It's one thing to be a leader and a manager, but it's another thing to coach others and to coach yourself, which means you're willing to step outside your comfort zone, choose clarity over comfort, be willing to— Challenge the reflection in the mirror, not just yell at it. So, just a big believer in the concept and tools and disciplines of great coaching. So, that's what Boss Up Blue is about. And then, the Moments is really around helping us humans. Again, with AI and enhanced automation and the whole global movement to cloud and hybrid, and we got about 5 generations in the workforce, we also should be mindful about continuously evolving and upgrading as people.

Yeah.

in business, work, and life. So, really, the Moments book's more around the EQ where we help people learn and understand why you need to set good boundaries, how to overcome conflict, how to help yourself from a mindset and an energy standpoint. And the Blue Book is, again, more of the framework, the plumbing, the infrastructure, the way to build, run, and scale. So, together, I like to think it's like peanut butter and jelly, milk and cookies, What's your favorite combo pack up there and where you live, right? I was going to say a croissant and a nice café au lait. You tell me, right? So, choose your favorite combo. So, they go together. And then recently, I just introduced our leadership learning and development experience. If you go to leadwithscott.com, and basically, we're taking the books. I have a talk called Moments of Momentum. I just finished a couple of commencements and working with A few big companies and small right now on it. And then, what's cool is after the keynote's done, it becomes a workshop for the day, and then it turns into a leadership learning and development program for the organization using the book because the book not only is a book, but it's also a journal. It tucks in video. We've got videos out on YouTube. We have AI prompts. And so, you get this wonderful immersion, this 3-dimensional experience to not only learn, to leverage, and benefit from, at the office and in your business. But you can actually take it home and use it at your kitchen table or put it on your nightstand. So, that's the vibe. And that's what the books and the Boss Up Coaching Solution Academy is all about.

I love that. I love that. You know, I get a sense that when I talk with leaders and entrepreneurs, I get a sense that when you tell them about systems, they think what you're trying to do is put them into a box and it's going to make them inflexible. Why is systemization often so misunderstood by these leaders?

Well, a couple of things. And I've been doing systems for 40 years. So, you've got the tech systems where you've got the— let's just call it the names. And I have a lot of respect for the ERP world of SAP and Oracle and Acumatica. And that's the world I cut my teeth in.

Yeah.

Then you had a lot of the big consultancies that would come in with their 3-inch thick binder methodologies to implement systems for the organization. Then over the last decade or two, you've got some of these more lightweight, I'd argue that they're rigid, brand-based framework and systems that kind of say, do it my way or you're doing it wrong. And I've always appreciated what they do good, but I've struggled with, to your point, the fact that there's both a paradigm in how they did it. And I understand why, especially when it comes to things around quality, right? If you're flying an airplane, And you want to make sure that pilot does it right. You don't want to vary. You don't want to modify. But running a business is not built in a vacuum. So, one of the things very intentional about BossUp is we love good proven frameworks that leverage the essential concepts, tools, and disciplines that have been time-tested, battle-tested, and they work. But we tailor. And it's very important to be mindful of who you are, where you want to go, and to modify. For example, today, if you're stage 3 and you actually do have a good system that's running your business, but your challenge really is now creating enterprise value. So, you've now got to start really incorporating good processes that are followed and shared. You've got to have a better system of dashboards and recording and reporting and managing. You want to make sure you have a good succession plan. You want to make sure that your goals are more long-term than just the short-term of cash flow and making money. So, I just believe that today, you've got to be modern, flexible, inclusive, accessible, and ideally affordable. And that's why I think what we've done, and I've had the benefit of 40 years of experience, and I've learned from a lot of people about what to do right. And I've also failed and made mistakes. And ideally, I've learned from that too. And we've tried to put that into our solution. Because yes, most people hear the word systems and they kind of go, eh, just like they do with the word meetings. Yeah. So, we're trying to take what we know is needed and should be done but do it in a way that's more palatable and meets them where they're at versus trying to retrofit them into something that's really not appropriate for them today.

And I think to your point, I think the past models of systemization was putting people in a box so that you had consistency. But nowadays, so I mean, in your system, you talk about this idea of systemization tying into humanitization or humanization. What does that look like for an organization?

Yeah, well, I think again, there's some names and some brands that are out there that really do make it all about them. And I think on average, it worked for maybe last decade, decade and a half. But because of Gen Z and AI and just the variable workforce and 1099 versus W-2, a couple of American in economic terms, but I think you know where I'm going. Fractional employment versus full-time gig versus not. So, I think there's always been a rub that says, hey, you're glorifying the system and you're kind of dismissing the human. And again, I think like most things, it's an end both, right? Here's a concept that a lot of people have taken out of context. They're like, wait a minute, are you a jerk? But the concept is structure first, people second.

Yeah.

And it's very similar to saying, why would you drive without a seatbelt? Why would you risk your life in a vehicle or doing something without preparation, without making sure you have your backpack? You don't jump out of an airplane and don't make sure that the parachute's going to work. You with me? So, it's actually very humane. And that's counterintuitive to a lot of people. A lot of things we do with systems and structure and why we do have guardrails and agreement-based commitments and we follow processes because people can get hurt.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

People can get really messed up if, you know, you've all heard the Nike ad, right? Just do it. Well, you know, even if you're a healthy person, there's certain things you got to be careful of, especially as you're getting older and you may not have the right and same support and you may have come from a company that had a different budget or balance sheet. So, again, always be mindful of this concept of, you know, be quick but don't hurry. Love systems, but don't be run by systems. Appreciate input and advice. This is like AI, right? I truly believe that you are in charge of AI. Don't let it be in charge of you. So, ideally, you are initiating how you use it and you are making sure that whatever gets assisted by when it goes out to the world, you've also approved it.

Yes.

It always has got to be like an Oreo cookie, right? It could be some of your Tasty, creamy filling, but it's got to be started and sent with your validation. In fact, I consider that to be one of these agreement-based commitments in a policy. If people are putting stuff out with AI without authorization and approval and validation, in fact, I have a rule that anytime you're doing something important with AI today that has significance and could make an impact on expenditures or failure or mistakes, you got to go do it 10 times. You literally have to Ask and approve, ask and approve, challenge and look and stop and read and take a break and come back. I literally have a rule, 10x. Did you 10x with AI if that was what you used to generate what you generated? So, yeah, I just think it's a— and that's one of the things we're trying to do, honestly, Marc, is we're trying to democratize people's ability to leverage good business operating systems. We're trying to change the tenor And the perception, and perception more often than not is reality.

Yeah.

So, it's common, but we're chipping away at it. And then, we like to have some fun with what we think are some of the old-school, rigid, one-size-fits-all kind of approaches. And you do you. So, our whole philosophy is at a minimum, what we hope people do is they do their homework.

Yeah.

Back to using AI and Google and whatever search you want. But if you're going to make a consequential decision like putting in a new business operating system or you're going to decide to invest and commit to making your people the best they should be, you should do your homework. And you should look at options and choose what's best based on the right reasons, not just because somebody else said so, or they're the first in line.

Or because it's the next shiny thing. That too, yeah. This is a fascinating conversation, Scott. For the people tuning in who maybe this is resonating with, could you let everybody know how they can get in touch with you?

Yeah. So, thanks, Marc. On a personal level, I've been called Gen X, millennial, or Gen Zer because I'm pretty active on Instagram.

Nice.

Scott Abbott ABC. ABC stands for Architect, Builder, Custodian. If you want to know what that's about, pick up Moments. It's the first 3 chapters. And then LinkedIn, it's the same, and X, it's all the same, Scott Abbott ABC.

Nice.

If you're looking for the books, I've got a personal page on Amazon where all 4 books are out there, but the recent Boss Up and Boss Up Moments. We've got the new leadwithscott.com. That's leadwithscott.com is the new leadership learning and development. And then, the Boss Up website, which is both for companies and coaches. So, we basically partner with independent consultants and coaches who become members in our community and they represent and deliver our solution. bos-up.coach. And that's where you find that information.

Love it, love it, love it. When some of you mentioned a business operating system, what does a strong business operating system actually look like to an entrepreneur, to a business owner? Because you mentioned it's going to be different for different people.

Yeah, it is. But we do have a framework. And read all your best books from Collins and Drucker and Porter and even some of the more modern thinkers that are more around mindset and heartset, Brené Brown, Kim Sanborn, right? Systems is one of those words that a lot of people sort of don't look at it with fondness. But look at the world around us and think about all the things and how bad they would be without some form or fashion of systems.

Hmm.

So, For me right now in our world, we really emphasize 2 major parts of our— and I really prefer the word solution, right? You don't want to buy a system per se, you want to buy a solution. You don't want to buy a product or a service per se, you want a solution. A good solution helps you build, run, scale, grow, and make and save money and all that good stuff. So, through our teachings, because basically our coaches are consultants and teachers and facilitators and they do all of that, We help our clients learn initially and then develop the answers to what we call the 9 core competencies. And most people are going to go, no duh, right? It's your classic need for a good vision. Your vision has to be understood and managed and followed through your processes, through the way that you meet, the type of people that you have, making sure that the right people in the right seats doing the right work. You wanna make sure that you understand who your ideal client profile is. So, the 9 core competencies covers everything from the head to the toe. And again, depending on your stage, your size, some of 'em you can get really intense and deep and expansive on. And other ones you're gonna say, hey, right now I just really need to have good 90-day goals. We call those rocks. Shout out to Stephen Covey, right? What are the projects, programs, and initiatives you wanna successfully produce over the next 90 days above and beyond your day-to-day, right? So, you grow and you get better. So, that's the framework, the 9 core competencies. And then along, and that's again back to the home concept, right? Those are your bricks. And then we have what we call the essential concepts, tools, and disciplines. And that's really more around behaviors and mindset and heartset, right? How to make sure people are listening better, that they're present, that they don't let conflict and disruption get the better of them, right? How do they overcome anxiety and imposter syndrome and all those good things? So, that's our solution is based on, again, this blend of tailored systems, good coaching, which good coaching is a blend of teaching and learning and tailoring and facilitating. And then, again, today, we are Advocates of good, intelligent, practical use of AI. We're not talking about building agentic and helping you create flying drones. And we ain't going all Elon on you, right? We're just talking about how can you use AI to help you be more efficient, more effective, more productive, and you're ready? Counterintuitive to a lot of people, more humane.

Yeah.

Because I truly believe if AI is going to drive some of the efficiencies and effectiveness, that should free you up to be a better human. And as part of that, you talk about working on versus in, the same thing goes for us humans.

Yeah.

I truly believe if you're running a good ship, you should find 5% to 10% of the week to literally work on yourself. And how do I become a better leader, a better mentor? How do I coach my people up, right? So, I call it the little quid pro quo between you and your company. And And the AI, right? If you do what it says you should get, efficiencies, effectiveness, then what are you going to do with that time? Put some of it back in the business to grow. Put some of it back in yourself to continue to be healthy and mindful and a better version, right? And you should always kind of have this deal with AI. And if it falls out of order, we got a problem. And that's the conversation for another podcast.

I love that. For the people who are tuning in, if they're feeling a little bit overwhelmed by all the different concepts you've been introducing today, where should they start if they're feeling overwhelmed? What is their first step in acknowledging the fact? Well, first they have to acknowledge the fact that they have a problem. But then, once they acknowledge that they have a problem, what's the next step?

Well, I beat everybody to the punch because the first book is basically a picture book for adults. So, the first thing I don't want to do is overwhelm anybody. So very sincerely, man, this is all This is literally, and let's be honest, most of our humans will start at the back of the book. Well, I go to page 30, I go to page 10. So, if I may, as a guy who's read thousands of books and written a few, I was very intentional about the importance of design and not to overwhelm, right? It's not easy making things simple. In fact, Winston Churchill's got a great quote. You want me to write a paper? Give me a day. You want me to write a page? Give me a week. So, I spent a lot of time making everything very visual, very interactive, very immersive. So, if I may, that's one way. Second is don't overthink what we've talked about today, Marc. There's a famous line, how do you eat an elephant? Bite by bite. So, while there's a lot here today, let me sum it up. I said 9 core competencies. That's pretty— I could get my head around that.

Yeah.

The essential concepts, tools, and disciplines, right? I say this all the time. I can run Boeing Airlines on what we've talked about, but I'm not going to fly a plane on that. You ever look in a cockpit? That's a lot more complicated than running Boeing, the company. Trust me, business isn't that complicated. People overcomplicate it.

Yeah.

I often say business is like checkers, but you should think like a chess player. So, first things first is get a little help, get over yourself from an ego or whatever it is, right? And say, hey, there's probably a better way. And most of the stuff you can— I mean, we got stuff you download for free. I mean, literally, Especially between downloads and online templates and AI. So, I think most of the reason why, Marc, people don't do what you've been saying and get to is because unfortunately, their ego-to-IQ ratio is not where it needs to be. And maybe there's too much bravado, too much, ah, I don't need that yet, you rotten kids, get off my porch, kind of a vibe when they just need to say, hey, you know what?

Yeah.

There could be a better way. So, first things first is take a big deep breath. And you're right, demystify, try to break it down to the most important essential concepts, tools, and disciplines. Find a good framework that fits you and just start moving forward. Don't overdo it.

Right.

Don't get overzealous. Don't get ahead of yourself. But Doing nothing's not the answer, right? Because what got you here is not going to get you there. And the definition of insanity is—

Yep. And it's interesting that you say that because I've seen time and time again when I talk to entrepreneurs who need help and they're like, I've been doing this for 20 years. You can't tell. And it's like, but wait a second. You just said you have a problem you haven't been able to solve. And so, this idea, I'm constantly in awe of business owners who don't realize that they're that they're working within the confines of what they know. And they're not necessarily challenging what they don't know. And this is why I love the idea of your books because the books will help uncover knowledge gaps that they might have. And just like the podcast, if they trip over this podcast, hopefully they trip over something and go, you know what? I never actually realized that. And the minute we check that ego part, we're on our way.

And I've done, you know, I'm specifying myself as a professional speaker. But I've done I did a tour for IBM once where I did 28 cities over 18 months. I've probably done big stages and small, several hundred. And over the last few years, one of my introductory lines when people say, so, what is a business operating system? I simply reply and say, it's a system to help you operate your business. They go, oh, why didn't you say so? I said, well, because that acronym spells SOB and we don't want to work with SOBs.

Yeah, there you go.

And then I said, I really want human Operating system. Well, that spells hoes, and mom doesn't want us hanging out with a bunch of hoes. So, it's a BOS, number one. There you go. Second, I ask people to, hey, please raise your hand. Are you today in one form or fashion running on a system that helps you operate your business? And probably 10%, 15% will go hands up. And I say, please put your hands down. Now, everybody else put your hands up because no system is a system. See what I did there? A little Jedi mind trick. No system is a system. And so, while I respect somebody, to your point, that's been doing it for 20, 25 years, once again, let me repeat. While we use the term business operating system, what I really think it is, it's a company-building solution. And if you want to build a company versus just running a business, there is a difference, okay? Because most people don't want to buy just a business that's especially overly Reliant on the founder and the owner. Well, I generated $20 million over the last 10 years and I did $5 million last year. Yeah, but can it— if somebody comes in and says they're going to buy you for $20 million, will they make $250 million on that over the next 7 years without you?

No.

Only if they're going to buy it for that.

Only if they're not going to sleep for the next 3.5 years.

Yeah, right? So, again, back to ego-to-IQ ratios. I mean, So, I've seen it. Again, Godspeed and good for you if you've got some kind of internal system that you know and you know what you're doing, which is why I think also we all need a personal accountability system. I did a TED Talk that I didn't end up doing because of COVID but it's out there in the YouTube world.

Nice.

And it really was around personal accountability systems. And yes, you have them in your work, you have them in your life. And again, I'm kind of one of these kooky, look, squirrel. I don't deny that focus is not my natural best state and staying. And it's funny because I come from a family of engineers. My dad was a classic mechanical engineer that literally would rib me on how I held a pencil to do my math so I could see the numerator-denominator transactions clearer. So, I respect that. And then, I became an entrepreneur early. But really, right now, I think I'm an engineer and a mechanic with layering in humanity. So, I was one of those guys who said, I got a system. I don't need it.

Yeah.

Heck, I raised $15 million in venture capital back in the day. And I'm honest that I barely knew the difference between a P&L and a BLT, man.

Right.

But I had a very successful firm for 4 or 5 years with no system. So, brute force, energy, but sooner or later, if it's something of substance, you want to leave a legacy, you want to exit, you want somebody else to take over, you got to bring this thing called system into your universe and just find that groove between, yes, you being you, But also realizing that it's not really just about you, right? Especially if you truly are a servant leader and you believe in something bigger than yourself.

I love that. I'd love to get into some of the pitfalls and cautionaries as people want to step into this realm of having systems as solutions. What they need to be cautious of. What some of the pitfalls are. And we'll get to that right after this.

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Welcome back! If this conversation is resonating with you, it's usually because you're one of those people who are responsible for helping people lead better, work smarter, and avoid burning out in the process within your business and taking care of yourself obviously. As you could tell, Scott and I spend our time working with leadership teams who don't need more motivation. They need clarity, better decision-making, and practical systems. their people can actually use. So, if you're designing experience, maybe it's an offsite, a retreat, a conference, or a leadership program, and you're looking for expertise that can create real operational change, not just the good notes and the warm applause, we'd love you to connect with us. Feel free to reach out to us. Our contact information is down below in the show notes. Scott, AI now, you've alluded to it a little bit. AI is kind of the biggest stone in our business right now. It seems to be everywhere, yet people misunderstand it like crazy. What role does leadership development play now in the world of AI or the AI era?

Well, if you pick up the books I've created, I don't code in tech like I used to back in the day. But I created a blended version and my AI ally is named Vector. I'm Builder. He's Vector. And I just said the word. I think it's allyship. I think, you know, there's a book out there by Jeff Wood called The AI-Driven Leader. I love the book, but I don't necessarily love the title. Sorry, Jeff. I'm a fan. I don't want to be driven or led by AI. I get the concept. But I think that's where struggles and downside happens, right? It's a— if anything, it's a copilot. It's an asset. It's an assistant. But, you know, we talk about BOS with one S, but with AI, I'm the BOSS. I'm the boss. And we can't make it the boss of us. And certainly, there's a lot of AI out of our control, but that's another conversation for another time. And that's where I think most people get concerned and confused and worried and befuddled about, You know, we've all seen Terminator and we know there's some stuff that understandably is concerning. But let's just keep it real for most of us. What can AI do in our world to help us learn a little deeper with more insight and confidence and validation? What can we create? that has a more accurate yet simple comprehension? How do we discern and determine and challenge in ways that maybe we're not comfortable with other humans so we could do that with our AI assistant? So, I tell you, man, I was here at the advent of the internet. I literally, as the joke goes, Al Gore invented it and me and my buddies at IBM created this thing called eBay. business that transferred into e-commerce and basically the world if you think about it. The backbone is the internet. We don't even say www anymore, http://, right?

Right.

And then, I was there at the advent. In fact, that's what the book The Co-Factor was. I wrote that for IBM and it was to help them introduce at that time what we called systems of engagement because we're now using mobile and social technology in the enterprise. And, Freaked out a lot of people. And now, we have this AI. So, I've been through 4 very— I was there at the advent of even computing really back in the late '80s where, believe it or not, it was just dumb terminals. And watch some of the movies, kids, you'll know what I'm talking about. So, AI is disruptive. It's exciting. It's scary. It's a lot of the things. But what I will tell you what's different, Back to humans. The way this transcends business, work, and life, the way that it infiltrates business, work, and life, the way that it envelops, engulfs, is leading and lagging. And it's incredible, man. I brought on a team of some of the retired people just to run a couple of projects with me who actually are fully retired. And I said, hey, give me your, you know, hey, you rotten kids kind of attitude here. And, you know, nobody doesn't end after a couple few days ago, wow, wow, wow, wow. By the way, you know what wow is? Upside-down mom. So, you know, that's the way I like to look at it too. Treat your mom properly. So, you know, it's powerful.

Yeah.

And you can't— I get a lot of people, I won't do it. I refuse. I'm not going to— I hear you. I hear you. But like the airplanes, put your mask on first. I mean, we have a responsibility. It can't be about us. So, just be smart, be careful, lean in. But more than lean in, you got to— in fact, I don't let any of my clients, we call them roles, accountabilities, responsibilities in our first day. It takes about 90 days to learn and implement and jumpstart your use of BossUp. But in day 1, we make sure that we're validated on these are our functions, these are our roles, accountabilities, responsibilities, these are a handful of numbers. We have the pillars and the framework. And over the last year, year and a half, I don't let anybody walk out of that room without having AI as a specific line item in their job responsibility. Now, what exactly they're going to do, how they're going to do it, where it goes, that's not my position to say at that moment. That needs to be worked out. They just need to own. And ownership's a key concept in my talks and everything else. Who owns it, right? Everything has an owner. So, yeah, that's the reality of AI today. Neither a cynic nor an optimist. Be positive pragmatism, bring it in. And again, depending on your situation, your company, where you want to go, if you want to dial it up and go all in, again, be careful.

Very cool.

But if you just think you can ignore it, even if you're a grandpa hanging on the deck, I don't know. I know a lot of grandpas that are kind of excited to at least vicariously be learning and listening because while you're on this planet Earth, if you're not growing, you're dying. And so, if you're not learning new things and saying, hey, I didn't know but now I do, even when you're 88, well, hopefully, that's not your situation.

I think we've all had kind of looking back as we get older and stuff. We look back and go, gosh, if only I had stepped on it when it was at this stage, right? And picked up and learned Right? And that's what is going to happen. People 5 years from now are going to go, oh my goodness! I should have stepped into it when it first came out because then I would have evolved with it. And now, the learning curve is so high. For those people who are tuning in right now—

The infamous coulda, shoulda, wouldas, right?

Yeah, right?

You can't change the past, let alone perfect it. My favorite is when I sold my company, the first one. I had $100,000 in what I call play money. And believe it or not, Amazon company was trading at $6.75 and this other company you might have heard of by the name of Apple was at $21. Ladies and gentlemen, if you're in the world, if I would have put 50 grand into each one of those companies, hey, Marc, I wouldn't be talking to you today because I'd be on my own mountain with a chalet up there in Montreal. But, again, you can't change the past, let alone perfect it. But hopefully, your past still becomes insight and foresight for other people, right? That's one of the coolest things about experience.

Right.

So, Trevor's tuned in. I did post his hello in there. He came up with this. He came up with something on here. Systems, systems synergy, organic growth, systems, system leverages. And does that mean anything to you as far as being able to— in what we're talking about? So, something around—

We had fun with all the Ps. He's having fun with the S's, right?

Oh, that could be.

Symbiotic and systems and soul. So, I don't mind a good riddle and some wordplay. I think people remember things that they can remember.

Sure.

And so, I do believe in acronyms that are good. I come from a tech world that there's way too many of them if we're being honest. But yeah, I hope the point is that systems should not be seen as this inanimate bolt-on. It really should be the underpinnings. I go back to the concept of the chassis and the foundation. I don't look at the chassis of a car. I don't, you know, it's not what I see. I don't see the foundation to my home.

Right.

And so, ideally, just like I happen to believe that because of AI and the workforce dynamics that leadership learning and development shouldn't be a check-the-box, it should be an uncheck-the-box. What I mean is you should treat it like a utility bill. You know, let's just say if SG&A, sales and general administration, on average for most companies is somewhere between 15-20%. I would argue that we can get more efficiency out of SG&A with AI. But if we do, I would rather take at least half of that savings and I put it back into helping our people be better through learning and development initiatives and programs. You with me?

Yeah, yeah. And so, that—

A more politically correct quid pro quo than we see in some of the movies.

Yeah. And so, what I love about that whole philosophy is that we're investing in ourselves. as much as we're investing in our business. And so, the idea around lifelong learning about being able to pick up your book, being able to challenge our knowledge gaps, and then trying to learn from something I think is key. So, for those tuning in just very quickly, as people want to step into this realm of kind of thinking themselves past their entrepreneurial kind of day-to-day minutiae habits, what cautionaries and pitfalls should they be aware of as they want to step into these new solutions?

Great question. Again, be true to yourself. What is your situation? What is your DNA? Know thyself, even though I would argue most people don't. That's why we need coaches. I mean, I have 3 coaches. I need work and I hope that never stops. So, back to, again, if I may, in Boss Up, what I try to do is paint a simple yet inclusive representation of what you should be thinking about, but I'm always going to be very clear that you have the discretion, the responsibility, and the privilege to know what's best. So, I just say, again, be quick but don't hurry. Neither a cynic nor an optimist be. Practice positive pragmatism, which means trust but verify.

Yep.

Engage and leverage. And, You know, do what you think is best, just always remembering, and I say this with just candor, it's not just about you. And, I think if people on your show, they know that because this is the first sign that they're willing to learn and listen to outside people. So, it's people that aren't on the show that I'm probably more worried about. But, servant leadership, inverted pyramids, know that it's bigger than you.

Yeah.

And so, that means that you got to use resources, materials that are outside of your current scope or your DNA or your comfort. But yes, I would say be careful, do your homework. You know, I believe in the Pareto principle, the 80/20, 20/80. And I believe even with great systems, if you can get 80% to 90% of your goals, your objectives, your concerns, your opportunities, and your challenges successfully completed, that's pretty fantastic, man. If you're walking around this earth looking for, you know, perfect all the time and dominating all the time and 90%, 100% all the time. That's kind of silly. So, again, keep it in perspective and say, hey, if I can get 80%, give or take, accuracy on why I'm doing it, how I'm going to do it, what it's going to take in terms of the investment of time, capital, resources, the other 20% is— and I'm just going to say this, that's where faith comes in. And not just spiritual faith, but faith that, hey, I now concede that by having the other 80% in place, that in and of itself gives me confidence. You with