These Marketing Tips for Small Business will Pay Off - Big Time! Marketing 101

frustrating thing that you've experienced about marketing your small business. Our guest today is a sought-after professional speaker, a business coach, and a consultant. He is a creative director and the president of Spark Communications. David Saxby works with business owners who want to close more sales and increase overall revenues and profits. His years of experience working with small businesses has given David a keen understanding of what business owners have to face, what they need to contend with, especially in a volatile economy. And let's face it, nothing has been more volatile than the last few months with COVID-19. David Saxby, welcome to the show! Great to have you.

Thanks for having me, Marc.

It's so great. And I just realized something. We're both in purple. I don't know. What is that? I didn't coordinate. Did you talk to my wife or something?

Is that your dresser?

I don't know. Maybe it's just a purpley day. Who knows?

There you go.

Hey, before we get into today's topic, can you tell us a little bit about what you do with your clients?

Oh yeah. Well, my role with clients really is to help them think more strategically about what they're doing in the way of marketing and sales. And so what I typically do with clients is discover what they're currently doing, how they can improve on what they're doing, what they shouldn't be doing, and then where they need to go to reach the majority of their market. And oftentimes that means clients have already spent money or spent time doing marketing and they're not getting results. So, I now work with clients and we have a proprietary software program where we can actually analyze what clients are doing and come up with the areas of profitability when marketing is used to promote their business.

Oh wow! So, I mean, obviously, that sounds like an absolute solution to the problem. But I guess what I wanted to talk— you have all these years of experience. I want to know why Why are a lot of small businesses really lousy at market?

Well, I think it goes down back to one basic principle. And that is that most people get into business because they have a technical skill. And in most business programs or in most industries, there's no real training that's given to business owners in the area of sales or marketing or social media. And a lot of that's learned by the seat of the pants sort of method. So, I think it goes back to the fundamentals of business, which is looking at the business and looking at all the areas of business and being strategic.

Right. But you mentioned it really succinctly, this idea that business people get into their business because they have a specialty in one area of the business. But they're not necessarily business people. And I think that's a really interesting aspect because I've mentioned this before on other past episodes about how small business owners need to be able to build capacity in all different aspects of their business, not just in the core offering that they're developing. Just before we get full bore into this, I just wanted to bring to your attention that this episode is brought to you by the Speaker Presentation Timer app. It's an app that I created to help speakers and presenters who want to develop great stories and compelling presentations without ever breaking the fourth wall. It is available for iOS and Android-powered devices, and it's on the App Store and Google Play. So, go ahead and visit www.speakerpresentationtimer.com, and you'll— it'll also explain to you what exactly is So David, I guess one of the big questions I have is small business people don't necessarily have the skill to do marketing properly. But what are small businesses doing that is absolutely wrong in the marketing space?

Well, in many cases, I would say everything. But—

In what sense? Like when you say everything, in what sense?

Well, I think it really starts with looking at marketing from a strategic perspective. And most businesses don't. What they do is they do a tactical approach. So, just what you said when you introduced today's program, they put a little bit on Facebook, some on LinkedIn. They go to Twitter, then Instagram, so on and so forth. And there's no real sense of the effectiveness because they don't know where their target market is and they haven't come up with a strategy or a plan and they're not doing it consistently. So that's the biggest challenge I think is they're throwing stuff out there and I've said to some people, don't puke all over social media because it's wasting time and many businesses have gone from traditional marketing which was working or generating some leads to putting it all on social media and realizing that they don't know if they're getting results or not, nor do they know where their leads are coming from.

So, there's a couple of points that really resonate with me. First of all, the difference between tactical and strategic. Could you define those?

Oh yeah! Strategy is really looking at the overall big picture and determining what your business goals are. And then, where your market is and what their challenges and issues are. and the best way of communicating. So, in many industries, people are not necessarily on social media. And if you're in a, say, a B2B market, business-to-business, you probably want to spend more time on LinkedIn than Facebook.

Right.

If you're in a B2C market, maybe Facebook over LinkedIn and so on. And that's just on the digital side of things. But there's also all the traditional channels that still exist. A good example, why would Google do a billboard? They're digital media. But the billboard creates the presence and builds the brand so that people look for Google when they go online.

And again, by doing— and I think that really highlights the importance of kind of having a mixed bag of exposure places to make you top of mind.

Exactly. And I think the other side of it too is making sure that you've got the eyeballs, you've got the viewership, you've got the interaction, and then measuring what your results are. It's— so it starts with a strategy and then have a plan, put a budget to it. Even though, you know, people think that going on social media is free, it's not. You're using human resources to post. And time. And then also determine a timeline and plan your marketing over a period of time so that you can actually see some results. One of the things I see all the time, and this even happens with big companies, is they blast out a bunch of stuff and then they stop doing everything. And then they blast out some more stuff and they stop doing it. And so, the customers are looking at it and going, well, I guess they're out of business because they're not here anymore.

And or even worse, people don't think about them at all.

Exactly, yeah. And then, the other side of it too is to look at how you can strategically create a market-dominating position. And what I mean by that is being able to put an idea in the mind of the customer such that you are the go-to source for product or service. And that means coming up with something distinctly different from your competition. And what typically happens in a lot of industries is the me-too syndrome. You look at, say, banking industry or the legal industry and they're all blue logos or they're all— in the legal industry, everybody's got a black and white card. Their message is the same. It's 3 names or 4 names on a card. And same with the accounting practices and so on. And in a lot of industries, are like that where everybody looks the same.

Yeah.

So, it's a matter of coming up with something that's distinct and different. And a number of years ago, I worked with Canadian Western Bank, which was originally 2 banks merging together. And if you were back in the '80s, you'll probably remember Bank of Alberta. Well, they merged with a bank out of BC. And so, we went through a process of researching their target market, determining what the big banks were doing wrong. And what they could do differently. And so, we named them and we came up with the identity for them. And if you look at their logo, it wasn't blue. It wasn't red and it wasn't green.

It's a huge risk to be different.

It is.

When you work with clients, so when— I mean, that's a perfect example with the Western Canadian Bank. Because at some point, you must have faced friction when you went to them and said, you shouldn't be blue. You shouldn't be black. You should really have your own identity. Can you talk a little bit about the mindset shift that needs to happen in order to start isolating your brand to be different from everybody else?

Well, yeah, it started out with originally 2 very different cultures. The Pacific and Western Bank was the one that merged together with the Bank of Alberta.

Mm-hmm.

And so I remember discussions about, well, the logo should really have rope around it and mountains in the background and, you know, cowboys and so on and so forth. And the Pacific and Western Bank said, no, it should have waves and sailboats and, you know, everything else like this. And I said, okay, first of all, we need to decide What's going to put your brand in the forefront of every other brand that's out there? And it also got into discussions about what products and services and how to differentiate. So, we did things like they were the first bank in Canada, Western Canada to have sit-down banking, first bank to have drive-through banking, first bank to have telephone banking.

Hmm.

And that was all based on our surveys with customers or potential customers saying, What is it that you need such that you feel you're getting treated as a special customer? And so, all of that launched and very successfully and they're still in business today and they have multiple divisions of the bank.

Hmm.

So, it came down to analyzing the market, figuring out a strategy, determining how to make the brand distinctive so it stood out, and also analyzing competition and seeing what they were doing.

Yeah.

So, that became a market-dominating position, which is what I was talking about. And then, the other side of it was coming up with a compelling offer. In business, what do you do such that your target market says, oh, that offer appeals to me. That really makes a difference for me.

Yeah. And which of course brings up an interesting point that sometimes, the compelling offer is not about price. It's about value.

It's absolutely not about price. There's a famous expression, I think back in the '70s in the advertising world. And that was, if everything else is the same, price is the only determining factor.

But everything has to be the same.

Well, yeah. You know, comparable, right? So, you know, if you go into a hardware store, do you really care whether it's one supplier or not? of nails or screws or most people don't.

Yeah.

They're not going to go in and look for a specific brand. What they're going to look for is price.

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And but I mean, that's when it's something like a general commodity like nails or whatever, or cucumbers or whatever. But when it comes down to a mechanical garage, you need to fix your car. Right? Do you care where you take your car? Well, I would say probably you do. Just like you probably have a preference over your doctor because over the years, you've kind of fallen into this one particular person and created a relationship with them. And then, you have this trust. And so, this idea of marketing, it's all about— you keep seeing it in the marketing circles and especially in the digital content where people need to stand out and they need to be Very much so. And so, a lot of the typical marketing now that small businesses do, and it's unfortunate because it's kind of like yelling into a forest and then wondering why nobody's coming, right? And so, ultimately, the idea here, every time that we put out a piece, every time we do something, we want to be able to create those relationships. But at the end of the day, this is about building leads. How can operators attract more leads? But I shouldn't say leads because really at the end of the day, it's about taking leads and converting them into customers.

Exactly, yeah. Yeah, and so, it starts out with the first impression. And a lot of people get confused about the word brand. But brand really creates a first impression. And it literally has a personality and it connects with an audience, a particular target audience, and it says something to that audience. So, the first impression leads to then people looking at the options they have for purchasing, whether it's services or products, and they determine whether they have a compelling— if there's a compelling offer. Not necessarily price-based. I mean, you look at why do people buy Mercedes? It's not the price. Why do people buy Apple products over Microsoft products and so on? So, it comes down to compelling offer. And you were talking earlier about the aspect of commodity. Well, interesting enough, with professionals, much of those industries are commodity. I had a discussion. In fact, one of the clients I'm working with right now is in the bookkeeping industry. And he says, well, we just don't have any differentiating factor. And I said, well, let's look at what you're doing. And we had a several-hour discussion, came up with 4 different, very different distinct things that he did different from his competition. I said, that's your market dominating position. So, from there, once you've got your messaging and your target market figured out and your compelling offer, then it's a matter of figuring out how to generate leads. So that means getting people to your information. And nowadays, a website's like a business card. You know, if you don't have a website, people don't think you're in business. So the idea being is driving traffic to wherever you want people to go, whether it's your website, to whether it's a phone call or a text message or whatever mechanism you want to do to capture the lead. So nowadays the most popular ways of doing that is to develop what we call lead pages and then also doing things like drip campaigns. So drip campaigns are simply an automated process of messaging people through email and the next sort of one that's coming along and fairly popular is cell phones, you know, doing texting. So, all of that, what that does is connects with your market. And then, you need to give them something that appeals to them that's risk-free or minimal risk.

Right.

So, in a lot of cases, that means leading them to the website to download some information or watch a video or pay for something that's very minimal risk.

Yeah. It's so funny because what you're talking about is this idea of creating value But using that value then as— so, it might be free. But the actual payment is that you get your brand recognized. You put out content out there so people can know, like, and trust you and that you are being of service to them. And I remember like years ago, it's probably now about 10 or 12 years when Jay Baer put out his book, Utility.

Oh, yes.

And with a very strong philosophy of Be of service to your customers first. And I remember this in about 2011, 2012. I remember hearing about this spa company in the States. And the owner kept putting out all these different videos on how to fix your spas.

Oh yeah.

And he was interviewed. And I mean, he was very popular. People were always watching him. But his sales went through the roof. And people kept coming to him and saying, you're telling them how to fix their own spa. They're never going to call you. And he says, no, people want to know about fixing their spa. They want to know what it takes to fix it. And he says for him it was a coup because he says people are basically too lazy to do it themselves. They don't necessarily— they're afraid they might mess something up. So now they call the professionals. But what he did in the context of being able to do that is he showed what had to happen to fix the spa. So when he gave his bill, he never had to argue. about what he charged them to fix their spa because people were at least educated in understanding what it takes to replace the motor, what you have to do if you have a leak, and so on. And it was brilliant. And his business just shot right through the roof as a trusted source. If you're going to buy your spa in the States, you went to this one guy.

Yep. Yeah, exactly. And it became the expert and the go-to source or the customers, which is nowadays, that's what it's all about is building rapport with your customers, building trust, giving them something of value that helps them make a decision that you're the person to do business with long before you ever hand them a bill or take their credit card or whatever.

Right.

And the messaging, this is also another aspect of where businesses fail, there's still an age-old formula that's been used for decades. And that is that the message, the headline of your marketing, whatever it is, your advertising, your online and so on, addresses a problem, an issue, or a pain the customer has.

Right.

So, just like the spa guy, people having spas breaking down, the pain is they've got to figure out who to call to fix it. So then, the next part, the subheadline is the interest part. So, the first one is attention. The second one is interest. And provide a source or provide a reason why people can find a solution.

Sure.

So, what's the solution? Third thing is then make it desirable. And that's really the body copy or the backup information that says, here's some options for you. It's a pretty easy process. Watch my video, like the guy with the spa. And then last of all is a call to action. And the call to action may be simply Provide your email address and your name, or provide your email address, phone number, and download this free video or watch this, read this PDF or whatever. Something that provides value so that later on when they're buying, they'll have you as a source. Right.

And people know, like, and trust you.

Exactly.

So before, I'd like to take maybe a little deeper dive into some best practices. But before we get into that, could you tell our audience how they can get in touch with you? And I mean, if they need to tap into your expertise, where do they go?

Oh, pretty easy. My website is sparkcommunications.com.

Nice.

And my email address is D as in David, my first name, and Saxby, S-A-X-B-Y, Nice.

And so, we do have a link in the show notes down below so people can check it out. I just— hold on a second. I just got a text from Jeff. He sent me a note earlier today and he said that he wanted to send me a text during the broadcast. He says, hey Marc, I've always had a challenge with the idea of brands. He says, I mean, ultimately, it's not what I say my brand is but what other people say my brand is. Is it possible that my brand has no identity at all?

Quite possible, yeah. Again, it comes back to what I was talking about before is a lot of businesses start out. They build a brand not really knowing what the impression is going to leave with customers. They keep the brand because they started using the brand. And it really comes down to what personality brand has. It comes down to what are the— what does the name mean to customers? What is the graphic or the image say to customers? And then how do you back up that brand with a compelling message, offer, and so on? And is it consistent? I mean, who would have thought that a checkmark would actually build a multi-billion-dollar company?

Exactly. And it— but it just goes to show that the image part of it is just something that ties the idea, the image, to an idea.

Yes.

Right. And so, you know, I, I remember once when we rebranded a casino, people went, oh, the name is crazy. But then what the question I asked them is, what does Earl's mean to you? Yeah. And, and so then people, those people in Western Canada said, you know, well, it's a restaurant. It's, you know, they got pretty girls. They have good food. And so, and And it's like, but Earl's is just a name.

Yeah.

You know, you associate it with your experience with the brand. So somebody coming in from Montreal who's never seen an Earl's would go, what, what is an Earl's? I, I've never heard of an Earl's before. Right? Yeah. And, and it would mean absolutely nothing to them. And so that's the same thing with our brand, right? We somehow get associated with the people that we touch that they turn around and say, hey, This particular hardware store is my favorite. In fact, if anybody's watching this at any point, even in the replay, just for the heck of it, put in the timestamp and then put in what is your favorite hardware store. When I think hardware store, your first brand that comes to mind is what? And that'll just prove my point that that association is made because of that. You know, like, and trust them as well. Small businesses, as we mentioned earlier, small businesses, as brilliant as entrepreneurs are and passionate as entrepreneurs are, Ultimately, they don't know it all to be able to run a business. And so, as a small business owner, what would you suggest that they need to do in order to ensure better marketing results? Like they have their staff saying, oh, you have to go on Twitter. You have to do this. What do they need to do in order to ensure that they get better results?

Well, as I mentioned earlier, I think the first thing is to create a strategy, which means Do the research. Figure out who your market is, what their needs are, what their pet peeves are. Like a lot of businesses start up because the business that's dominant in the industry is ticking clients off. So, what is it the customers don't like? What does the customers look at? And even look at what customers do to misuse the product or service because that's a clue. That gives you a clue as to what's not working in communicating with the customers. So, start with strategy. Then, come up with a plan and determine where the target market is getting their information from. So what channels are they spending time on? Is it online? Is it television? Is it traditional media? Is it texting? Is it Instagram? Where is the majority of your customers? And then keep it simple. Start with 1 or 2 channels that are where your dominant customer is. And then from there, add new channels in. And don't put everything on— like, don't dump it all in social media because you think it might spray enough information out there to attract customers. You need to be strategic. And a good example is right now with this COVID situation, what's happening is there's a buy local movement. So on the internet, how do you capture people locally? Well, it's building relationships. It's finding out where your target market is locally. And then, what do they do both online and offline? And what channels do they follow? And so, throwing a bunch of stuff on the internet internationally is not going to help buy local.

Exactly. And it's interesting because I talked to some local businesses. And they get frustrated with the fact that they're competing against the big brands. I talked to a hardware store owner locally here and she's frustrated because people are going to Amazon to order their products and they're not coming to her store. And I've always had a real challenge with that because I think as a local business owner, she has a leg up on Amazon. Nobody knows—

Yes.

Amazon. They know, like, and trust it. But nobody can go to Amazon and say, boy, oh boy, I saw your kids grow up. I saw that you sponsored something at our school. And because of that, we were able to win the trophy, or whatever that is. Whereas local businesses have the ability to be present in people's lives on an ongoing basis as being a community-based business.

Yeah, yeah. A good example of that. Years ago, I worked with a a commercial supplier to the trades and the building industry. And they were saying, well, we're having challenges with our sales and our marketing. And what do we do? And I said, well, let's talk about your customers. How do customers order products? And how do customers interact with you? And we looked at the whole sales and marketing process from the moment a customer contacted them through to when the sale was closed and the follow-up. And what was interesting was one of the comments was the VP of marketing or VP of the company basically said, he said, our customers aren't online. Some of them just got email. And he said, in fact, we've had customers walk in with a chunk of drywall with their order on it. And so, that triggered a whole process of figuring out, okay, how do we get customers to kind of interact using more modern methodology or providing them more convenience in their ordering? Plus, how do we track what they order and be able to keep the inventory there? Because they were keeping a lot of inventory that was getting stale-dated and wasn't useful to the customers.

Sure.

So, it went through this whole process of looking at their market, interviewing customers, figuring out what their interaction points were and so on. But I thought that was just hilarious because there's a lot of industries like that or a lot of businesses like that where the person walks in with a chunk of drywall or a 2x4 and has their order written on it.

I have so done that when I was renovating my mom's house. I had no paper.

Yep.

So, I walked in with a chunk of drywall with my list on it.

Yeah.

David, I mean, we talked Right now about that, there are so many businesses doing stuff wrong. I know that people, hopefully people will watch this and go, well, gee, I want to take the next step going forward. But before we get into the next steps of what they should be doing, can you offer any cautionaries of stuff that they shouldn't do? These are the do-not-dos. Don't fall into this trap.

Oh, I think, first of all, coming back to what I had mentioned right at the beginning is Don't look at the tactics as a short way to get to results because throwing stuff in different directions and expecting it is like throwing mud against the wall. Some of it's going to stick. Some of it's not. So, be very strategic. Also, look at— if you're looking at today's market in particular, trying to figure out how to reach your customers, Don't try and sell right off. Like selling your products right off or your services right off. Many customers are confused. They're overwhelmed. So, they're not probably in a position to buy right away. They're doing their homework. So, provide content and information that will help them make a decision so that when they are ready to buy, they'll make that decision for you.

Yeah. Yes.

You know, like I said before, the traditional media still works for many, many industries. Some of the trends that are happening now as well is that the cell phone industry and cell phones are now becoming a medium or a channel that a lot of businesses are looking towards to market because email is overwhelmed. Social media is overwhelmed. So, they're looking at new places to find Customer interaction. So, a couple other things to look at too is watch trends. What's going on with your customers? What's going on in the market? What's going on with your competition? And then, be innovative in your approach and don't do the same thing that everybody else in your industry is doing.

Right.

Look at innovative ways of doing things that make your business stand out. And then, Budget, plan, and monitor, and measure your results. Because if you measure the results, you're going to see what's working, what's not working, and then adapt your marketing accordingly. And as business increases, increase your marketing.

Yeah. And there's also this trend of being authentic and bringing your authentic voice forward. A lot of what we're talking about when it comes down to marketing, some people might perceive it as being, I have to tell them a message so that I get them to buy from me. And I think those days are gone where people create a kind of a fake persona as it was in order to do business. And I think in my background in hospitality, you see that backfire many, many times because they say, yes, we're for this. But then, people look into it and we're in instant communications now.

Yeah. Well, and if you look at currently in the market, the whole Every business that's online has got a message up about Black Lives Matter, or they've got a message up about COVID And they're putting those messages out there not realizing that most customers look at those messages and they have no connection to what the customer is trying to do with the business. So, it's just another message they see. In some cases, it may make a difference, yes.

Yes.

And to some, it's being socially conscious.

Exactly. And so, some people want to reflect their values to say, hey, we're one of the good guys.

Yeah, yeah. And a lot of big brands do that just to say, hey, we're putting something back into the community and so on. But the other thing when it comes to innovation, look at what's going on in the market and look at how you can be ahead of the curve. And you look at like an example, for instance, Dyson vacuums. Premium brand vacuum, very innovative in how they do their business and what they provide for products. When the COVID thing came out, they reinvented what they were doing for products and came up with a ventilator. And we're selling that to households and hospitals and so on. So, they're still in their core business. Their message is still the same that the whole concept of technology is being used in a very effective way and getting great results. But they shifted their business by being a little more innovative and looking at the market. And they haven't gone outside their core business.

Yeah. And it's interesting because when they interviewed, I think when they interviewed Dyson, he said something to the fact that he makes vacuum cleaners. They make fans and now, they're making ventilators. He says his business has always been moving air.

Yes, exactly.

That's the core business. That's the core business. We move air, which I thought was excellent. So, I'm sure that anybody watching this now I mean, their head is buzzing right now because we've talked about so many different aspects of marketing. What can a small business owner do? Like, as soon as they're done getting off and watching this whole video to its entirety, what can they do next? What should be their first step if they don't have a marketing plan? If they don't have a strategy, what should they be doing? What's the first thing they need to do?

Well, I think the first thing is go back to thinking about why they're in business, what they offer clients and customers that is unique, and how can they best serve those customers. Then, what channels do those customers interact with to make a buying decision? Provide content. So, whether it's writing articles, sending out emails, Or even just simply sending out a postcard and say, hey, we're still here to serve you. That type of approach. So, be strategic and figure out what you're currently doing that's working. Keep that. What's not working and stop doing that. Set up a plan and a budget and then look at that budget and what can you do over a long time, a long period of time. I've had so many big businesses go, oh, we're going to put up a billboard. And I go, why are you doing that? Well, because everybody in the city will see it or every customer will see it. Well, does every customer need to see it? Or is your customer 1 in 100,000 people or 1 in 10,000 and they go somewhere else to find their information?

Right.

And I remember a conversation I had with one very large international company. And I presented a media plan. This is back before social media and back before the internet. And part of it included radio, part of it included television, newspapers, so on and so forth. He looked at the whole plan and he says, this is good, but I don't like that radio station. And I said, and? I said, that's where your customers are. He says, well, I don't like that radio station. I said, so you don't want to talk to your customers? And he says, okay, point taken. Let's do it.

But it's interesting because when you think about there are reasons why he had that preference. And what he fails to realize as well is when it comes down to his products, his service, people might be feeling the same way about him as well.

Well, yeah, exactly.

It's just this whole big circle, right? Well, David, thank you so much. This is really all the time that we have for today. And I really appreciate you being on the show. Could you just remind everybody one more time how they can get a hold of you.

Sure, yeah. And like you said in the beginning, I work with clients to develop strategies. But I also have a coaching program. And the advantage for clients is that they can actually do it fairly affordably. And they can either do it themselves. I can work with them in a small group environment with other businesses. Or we can work one-on-one as things progress. So, if people want to talk to me more about what I'm doing, They can reach me at sparkcommunications.com and my phone number as well, 403-585-9870. Or they can just send me an email at dsaxby@sparkcommunications.com.

Nice! And I know that you are one of the four— you're in the forefront of accepting text messages from customers now. So, somebody could actually text that phone number and just say, help!

Funny enough, I have seen that through text.

Oh yeah, there you go.

My marketing is not working. Help!

Yeah, yeah, I can believe it. I know I've worked with a lot of small businesses and I know it is so frustrating for them not to have the time or the capacity to be able to do this. And they're just trying to do the best they can. And ultimately, as people have many times have heard from me is you can't do it alone. And so, David, thank you so much. I'd really like to acknowledge you for being here today to share your thoughts, your knowledge, your brilliant expertise. You are probably one of the most approachable folks I've ever met.

Thanks!

And I remember the very first time that we met and we sat down and we had lunch and we just had like 2 hours of great conversation. And so, I appreciate the fact that we're able to replicate that here today. You mentioned when we were talking before the broadcast, you were mentioning that you have a book as well?

Oh yes, Spark Innovative Marketing Strategies. If people go onto my website, there's a box there where they can click and they can actually download the book. It's free. There's no cost. And they can read it. It's got some examples of things that I've been talking about today and some ideas for small businesses to be able to innovate their business. And I'd really encourage businesses to think strategically, be innovative in how they think, and don't be afraid to connect with others that aren't in the industry and hear their ideas about your business. Because a lot of times, what I refer to as novice consulting brings up some interesting stories and ideas and thoughts about a business and can help you move your business forward.

Right. And that's where things like hanging out and going to your Chamber of Conference or going to Rotary meetings where people have other businesses and you can share those kinds of ideas. Yeah, wonderful.

Like in the group coaching environments, you get 5 different businesses together and it's amazing what you can share in the way of ideas and support and help move your business forward simply by getting ideas from other business owners. Right.

David, again, thank you so much for being here today. It's been absolutely wonderful. You are a wealth, an absolute wealth of information, and I really appreciate it. Thanks for being here.

Thanks, Marc, for having me on. I look forward to continuing the conversation.

So, why don't you give me a thumbs up if this was of value to you? I put these episodes together. I go out and I reach out to my circle of colleagues to figure out what would be of interest, what would be of high value to you. And as always, my offer stands. If you would like 30 minutes of my time to brainstorm your business with you and your team, please feel free to book yourself on my online calendar. The link is below. It's the link that says meetme.so/MarcHaine. As always, I am at your service. And if you haven't done so yet, why don't you hit the subscribe button and ring the bell? That'll give you first dibs whenever I bring you the content and when I bring you some new ideas to help you work on your business, not just— or sort of work on your business, not just in your business. Ultimately, I'd like to also get your comments and your thoughts. Is this of value to you? Do you have any ideas of what you'd like for future episodes? It'll be my absolute pleasure to investigate and uncover those kinds of topics for you. My name is Marc Haine. I hope you stay safe, stay healthy, and dare to be the exception.