Transitioning the Top Leadership Job in Your Organization

If you think labor turnover is costly, what about turning over the person at the very top of the food chain? That's coming up next on Marc Haine Live. Welcome to this episode. This is where small business owners and entrepreneurs pick up skill sets to help them work on their business, not just in their business. I am your host, Service Expert and Master of Experiences Marc Haine. And today, my guest is Jane Halford. We will be talking about what it takes to transition the CEO position within your organization. And we'll get to that in just a moment. This past weekend, this podcast hit 5,000 views on YouTube. This whole channel, 5,000 views! Woohoo! It's time to celebrate for a YouTube channel that kicked off March 2020. And now, we are October 2021. It's been a long, hard slog to it. But I've enjoyed doing episodes every week since that time. And I realize by YouTube standards, it's pretty meager, especially when you think that there are some amazing YouTubers out there getting Tens of thousands of views each episode. So, maybe one day that'll happen. But I'm really thrilled that and I'm humbled that you are here with me today and that you are following me and you are on this episode. And who knows? Maybe it'll take me a few years to become an overnight sensation. And then, when I do, watch out world! If you haven't done so yet, why don't you go ahead and subscribe to this And don't forget to ring the bell so that you get notified whenever I bring you a new episode. And while you're at it, go ahead and feel free to follow me on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. I'd love to see your content and see you being part of this conversation. Like any kind of business, businesses evolve and they transition. And installing a leader at the top of your organization, whether it's an internal Or it could be an internal promotion, or it could be an outside new hire. Well, let's just say it can have some real challenges. And that brings us to our Question of the Day. So, what's been your experience with hiring a Business Manager or CEO Was it a smooth and productive transition? What happened to your culture because of hiring a new CEO? Go ahead and share your experience on social media. And you can do that by sharing this, the link to this video, and then hashtag it #ExperienceLeadership. And why don't you go put down your experience? Love to have you part of the conversation. And again, if you can hashtag it #ExperienceLeadership, then we can follow you along. My guest today is Jane Halford. Through her business Halford Consulting, Jane serves organizations through a range of services focused on leadership and governance transition through in-person and virtual training and her advisory services. And she is a sought-after professional speaker across associations and businesses. Welcome, Jane! It's so nice to have you on the show.

Thank you so much, Marc, and congratulations on hitting that big milestone. Keep up the great work. We've got to help entrepreneurs. They have a lot of important things to do in our community.

And that's why I created this, right? That's my passion point is to really give people some content that they don't necessarily— they wouldn't really come across in their day-to-day lives, right? So, we hopefully can expose them to some information. Jane, before we get full bore into our content today, maybe you can tell us a little bit about what you do for your clients.

What I'm passionate about is helping entrepreneurs, business owners, CEOs, other executives get ready for and walk through the journey of handing over a leadership role So, this could be the top role. But for the purposes of today's conversation, it could be any important role in your organization. So, I just wanted to make that clear up front. But a smooth productive transition is what we're shooting for, Marc.

And I love the fact that you made that clarification because it's not necessarily just a CEO. It could be anybody who's in a top management role within an organization.

Absolutely. Or actually, anybody who's absolutely critical. We've used the same techniques on frontline sales staff. If that's what matters to your business, you can apply all these principles to anybody in the organization.

So Jane, why is this topic so important for businesses to consider?

Yeah.

One of the things that we find is that businesses are great at planning all kinds of things, whether that's your business plan, or your budget, or your risk. But when it comes to bringing new people into the organization or promoting them, we actually don't go into it with any kind of plan. We just fall in love with the humans, say they're going to be great at their jobs, and then give them all the freedom to operate. But we actually fail to recognize that there's a whole bunch of learning curve, even if they're from within the company. So, this is That's why it matters so much because we do so well at other parts of the business. And we actually almost do nothing when it comes to new leaders. So, I think the skills from what you are doing well can translate into this work as well.

Nice, nice. And I mean, obviously, there's got to be a demand for it or else you wouldn't have a business. Are you finding that this idea of like top management transitions has It has become a huge challenge. And if so, why is that?

I started the business in 2013. And I thought I was the only one who didn't know how to transition in and out of a senior executive role. And throughout the work since then, we've discovered that 40% of new CEOs fail, which means they're terminated or they quit within the first 18 months on the job. And that was This statistic was from across North America and it existed before the pandemic. So, if this was like how business ran before the pandemic, what do you think it's going to be in today's world? Or when we see lots of retirements happening in 2022, and we'll touch on that today. But it's just such an epic failure rate that I thought even if we can do 5% better or 10% better, that's going to help a lot of organizations, a lot of great leaders, and positive momentum. And that's really my goal is to help change the success factor for those top talent.

Nice! You know, it's telling. Obviously, there's got to be a central core to why some of this is a challenge. You would think that because you're hiring a top manager, they have experience as leaders and that sort of thing. And the adjustment would be pretty simple. But what are the consequences to not having a plan to transition your top leaders?

Some of the statistics are quite terrible. Sometimes, people say it'll cost you 2 times the salary to have a failure rate. But sometimes, somebody says it's 10 to 20 times. So, it doesn't matter what kind of business you're in, where you're at. Nobody can afford that kind of wasted money. So, what we'd rather do is actually plan the transition and have that new leader come in and stay in. But also, help them be more productive. I think in all of our careers, we've been the new person. And we realize there's things somebody could have told us 6 months ago or 12 months ago that would have saved us time and effort. And that's the gap we're trying to bridge.

Nice, nice. Obviously, one of my concerns whenever we transition into top management, whenever we change over that leadership is what happens to our corporate culture. I mean, obviously, if a CEO is leaving and another one is coming in, or a manager's department head is is leaving and a new department head is coming in. We create all this uncertainty for our teams. And so, have you seen like any kind of major outfall when that planning is not done succinctly and well? Are there any outfalls to how the business operates?

It can definitely impact how the business operates because if you don't plan it, then it's really random and It's really a chance. And so, sometimes we see new leaders come in and basically step in a landmine of culture and really set off this explosion that sometimes they can't actually overcome. But then sometimes, they start changing culture. And sometimes, that's welcome. But sometimes, it's not because some organizations, some companies, culture is their value proposition. So, the one quick thing to remember about culture is make sure we're talking to the new leaders about that either in the hiring process Or in their first days, months, weeks on the job. Because if there's something distinctive and valuable here, we want them to not only hear it from you but actually experience it. And we want them to be able to embody that. That doesn't mean that as a new human that they don't bring something different. But don't let them forget what is important here for this business at this point in time.

Yeah, so well said. We've talked about about so many times where people come in with different sets of values. And the values actually at some point become incongruent. So for instance, I was just reading actually The Infinite Game by Simon Sinek. And he was talking about all these different leaders who came into these businesses who didn't understand the core reason why the business existed. So Walmart was a perfect example where the creator of Walmart was so focused on creating community and value within the community. When he left and the new CEO came in, that person started talking about shareholder equity and that sort of thing. And it changed everything that Walmart stood for. And it took Walmart years to get over that. Why is it that CEOs are not, or companies rather, are not planning for the transition of their top managers? What's holding them back?

Well, there was a book written in about 2017 called Transitions at the Top. And what they found by surveying thousands of U.S. companies was there are myths around why we don't help our CEO. And the one myth was that it's actually, we know what they can do. We've seen their resume. We've met them in the recruitment process. And it would be, let's say, disrespectful to help them. They don't need our help. They're superhero. They can do it. And really, we want to get out of their way. We don't want to give them assistance. And so, you think if that's the mindset, it's good intention. But really, it leaves them to wander around in the company, even if that's virtually today's world, and try to discover it for themselves rather than us offering them as a team, as a board, as an ownership group, bits of information that would help them accelerate. So, I would rather people think of these folks as high performers who can be even higher performers Exactly.

You know, it's kind of sort of as you were saying that, I just had an image of handing somebody a set of car keys and say, you know how to drive. So, go. And the guy goes, where am I going? No, no, you're experienced. You'll figure it out. Just go.

And add some humor. Let me tell you about an experience that I had where it was Yeah. And it was so obvious that they should have taught the new leader this. And it wasn't a CEO but it was a religious-based organization. And this new leader was really hard to find. They were so excited about their arrival. And they knew that this new person was not from their religion. But they didn't give them the Religion 101 basics. So, the person didn't know how to address elders within the church. They didn't know whether there was any kind of gender sensitivities with the culture. And so, after about 6 to 12 months, I got a call from the CEO. Saying, well, our new leader seems to be great on paper but they keep making all these mistakes. And it didn't take very long to stumble along the fact they didn't have a basic orientation. Now, in that case, that was religious. But in the company world, is it that the person needs a briefing on the industry, the community they live and work in, anything else, the history of the company? So, don't take for granted things that are so familiar. We have to stop ourselves and say, even if it's completely obvious, maybe we should raise this as something that can help our new leader.

I love that. And you know what? I would love to take a deeper dive into this. And we'll get to that right after this.

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I am speaking with Jayne Halford of Halford Consulting, and we're talking We're talking about this idea of how do you transition your leadership. And this goes for small business owners who are looking for a business manager. These are medium-sized businesses who need to hire different departments, CEOs, and so on. And associations, boards on associations who have to hire their operations managers. It is so integral that when we hire, we hire right because the company's can lose so much. Jane, is it fair to say that if you are hiring a new CEO or a general manager, that if they are qualified, they should be able to handle their own transition?

You know, they will be able to do a lot. There's no question that you've hired a great person. But they're actually a bit blindsided because they don't know what's most important. So, One of the things that I would say is the number one reason that new leaders fail is that there's a mixed expectation between what they think they should be doing and what the people senior to them think. So, maybe that's the business owner. Maybe that's the board. Maybe that's other people in the organization. But we need to actually communicate. That's such a foreign concept. We need to actually speak about what the expectations are. And through that speaking about what they are, we can actually open the door with the new leader to say, so what part of that do you need extra knowledge about, extra introductions about? So, why would we assume they're going to be fine? Let's ask them directly.

Ah, that's so good. And it's interesting because being a transition manager myself, I go into businesses who have been hooped, right? I've spent 35 years in hospitality, helping restaurants, casinos, and hotels kind of work their way out of conflict where they no longer have a culture that's productive, where they are not competing within their marketplace, and so on. And when I step into it, it's funny because when I get the expectation listing, they'll tell me one thing. But then, when I start executing what they said they wanted their goals and their objectives to be, they started looking at things and going, but that's not how we do that. And so, how much can history of an organization hold them back from being effective, from being able to bring a CEO on effectively?

And I think that's where the new leader can actually really help. That person can come and ask a lot more around the context of why do we do it that way? Why is that important? When was that determined? Is that working well for you? Because you all get a new job honeymoon for a while. So, asking a whole bunch of questions in that honeymoon period is totally welcome. And so, explore, explore, explore. And through that, you may find opportunities to do things better differently. But I think you'll get a whole bunch of credibility and trust built up by asking. Oh my gosh! Seek first to understand. I think that's That's what the new leader can bring most to the table.

Yes, yes. I love that. Being able to ask those good questions. And of course, new leaders are brand spanking new. So, at the very least, when you ask a question, the staff will go around and go, oh, that's such a stupid question. Oh, but he's new. It's okay.

And guess what? We might discover something. And it really invites in the connection that it's a team sport to welcome a new leader. So, let's make it an even playing field. And I always challenge people to say in this mostly virtual Yeah. You know, we're all little boxes on the screen. So, why don't we take advantage of that and say, hey, we're all neutral here. We're all trying to make a team win for the new leader. What can I contribute? What can the next person contribute? Because one of the things that gets overlooked is that even people that are lower down in the hierarchy or frontline workers, they may have some of the most important information for the new leader. So, everybody can actually play a role in the success. And I just encourage people to don't think about the hierarchy. Think about the knowledge keepers within the organization.

Oh, such a good phrase, the knowledge keeper. So, what you're talking about now is like having a process, is figuring out what that process could have looked like. So, what does an effective CEO onboarding process look like, do you think?

Yeah, I would say that we need to think about who has the most relevant information to that new leader's role. And put together a small operating team. It can even be a handful of people that say, okay, the 3 of us have this new leader's transition from the operations side. And let's think about who has the information that we could help gather, package together, get them in the new leader's calendar, and helping transition that knowledge from one to the next. And I think it's that kind of teamwork that can actually help dig up the information that we need. And then, as the new leader is hired, You can actually put them in that mix and say, hey, this is what we're thinking about gathering. What do you want and how do you learn? And I think that's another important part is some leaders learn by reading. Some learn by meeting. Some learn by listening. And so, we'll tailor how it's delivered. But the most important thing is we get them the most important information early on so that they can do their jobs well.

I love that. And the onus obviously is also going to be on that new leader, on that new CEO. I have known where we've hired managers who come in and they're so used to working a certain way. And when they take a look at the business, all they care about is their own agenda. This is the way I'm used to working. So, I'm just going to change it the way I want it. Is there anything that owners, business operators, boards can make sure that they're is kind of a synchronicity to the values. I mean, we talked about quite a bit about this before. But is there— how do they test it? How do they test when they interview somebody that the values are going to be synchronous?

Yeah, I think the more you can bring it out before you make the job offer, the better. So, how are things done here? Are we a collaborative space? Do we use words like, we operate like a family? Or are we all a whole bunch of independent people that come together for specific projects? So, however you can explain that. Make sure your candidates know that because it's just as important that they know that they fit as you know that they fit. So, the more we can showcase that and even in the virtual world, if there's meetings that they can observe that are appropriate for candidates to do it, that's great. Or can they go to a retail store that your company has or restaurant and see it for themselves? Because you're looking for that 2-way fit. And I think that's the important piece because if you don't have that fit, You need to discover that. And then, you were saying as well that how would you interview for that or how would you know whether they're the right fit? I would say that any kind of interview questions or reference check questions should go to the heart of the things that you're most worried about. So, ask their former boss like what was their leadership style or how did they approach problems or how would customers describe them? However you could test the right fit for your business.

Really good, really good advice there. Because I have seen it work well and I've seen it work so terribly, terribly, terribly wrong. But what I like about your kind of philosophy on this is I get a sense that this is more of an organizational-wide effort. It's not just, okay, here's what you need to do. Here's your job description. Here's what we expect. Now go. You're actually encouraging the CEO to get information from all the different department heads and even from the front lines.

And even when we've done this in other organizations, when the team is ready for a new leader, it sends a very different message to that new leader. So for example, we can start planning a transition while the search process is going on. And that's actually counterintuitive to people because you're often waiting Right. To know the biography or what the person needs. But it really doesn't matter. I bet 50% of your planning would be the same regardless of the human you put in the job. So, that's where the team spirit can come around and actually get ready for the new leader. And so, where I've seen it work amazing is that team, once the new person is named, approaches the new person and says, hey, we're your transition team, or we're planning your success in your first 6 months to 12 months. So, we want to blend our thoughts with your thoughts and see how you accelerate. And we When you do that, those new leaders are blown away. Like, they feel so welcome, so supported. And now, they want to do something for the team back. And they may not have even met yet.

Fantastic! I love this, Jane. This is just pulling out. I get goosebumps when I hear stuff like this because I just think it's so integral in how we run our businesses and the culture that we create. This is fantastic. Could you let everybody know how they can get in touch with you if this is resonating with them?

Yeah, the best way to reach me directly is jane@halford.co or our website is halford.co. And the most important thing is it's not .com. It's .co. But if people want to reach out to me, I'm happy to take emails, have a quick call on a phone. I love to talk about this all day long and I would just welcome the engagement. And so, you work with businesses and you work with associations Yeah, I work with all sizes of organizations from tiny 10-person not-for-profits all the way up to thousands of person listed companies. And my sweet spot is really small business. That's really where I began my career as a Chartered Accountant. And I just love business owners that have that constant struggle of working on the business and working in the business. I can really relate to that group.

So, I'd like to take some of this information now. And talk a little bit about that market specifically. Because I know that I've mentioned in past episodes that I had a garage that I took my wife's car to. And the gentleman who ran the garage was doing all the invoicing. And when it was all said and done, I went up and I had to pay him and so on. I said, why didn't you get somebody to help you? Why are you doing the bookkeeping? And he goes, well, I used to. I used to have a girl behind the counter. I used to have 5 mechanics. But I spent all my time running the business that I had no time to work on cars. And I thought right away, why don't you hire your boss? What does that look like for somebody who's never considered that? What would that look like to a small business?

Yeah, I think if you can come to accept the fact that you're an expert, maybe you're a technical expert engineer and you want to run an engineering practice. Or you're a craftsman like you love making cabinetry. Or like you said, Marc, you love working on cars. Just own that space. That doesn't mean that you don't own the business. It doesn't mean that you don't have significant influence. But I would say just even on a blank piece of paper, brainstorm all the things that you wish somebody else would take care of and craft that into a job description. Because I think people don't understand as the business owner, you can craft any job description you want to support you. And that doesn't mean that person needs to own your business. You can still hold the big decision-making. But it actually takes away all that pressure because just because you're awesome at what you love to do does not mean you need to be the CEO or the head of the company. But you can still be the face of the company, or you can be still the quality, or the inventor, or the business person. However you want to showcase yourself to the world, that's what you should do.

Nice! For the people watching this who go, but it's my business. I'm the boss. What would you tell them about hiring a business manager to help them? Because I think there's a fear of my identity and my passion is in my business and I don't want to give up the reins.

Yeah, I have to say the best book if you want to listen to it or read it is called Rocket Fuel. And it talks about if you're the visionary and you need somebody to implement things, how would you do that? The same thing is if you're an expert in your field but you want somebody else to help you. And there's no There's no shame in that. Like if you're great at some things and not great at other things, that's fine. If you want to carry the title of CEO or business owner or anything else, carry it. Just title somebody else anything you want. So, if you find the right wing person to help you run your business, find the job description that fits that. Find the title that fits that and profile yourself in any way that serves you.

Yeah, because after all, you're the boss.

Yes, you own the shares. You make the decisions. You write the checks. It's your business.

I love it. I'd love to get into some concrete examples of what boards and owners need to do to assess the health of the leadership transition. And we'll do that right after this.

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Welcome back. I hope you are getting lots from today's episode. Jane's philosophies and her systems really are kind of jumping the chasms of all the different kinds of leadership roles. And it's not a one fit. It's not definitely not a one fits all. One, I don't even remember.

One size fits all?

One size fits all. There you go. I just had a little brain thing. Yeah, it's not one size fits all. But the philosophies I think are really contingent on on what your needs are and what you want to accomplish. We're covering a lot of information. And this is stuff, you know, you've put it into some context that I hadn't even really considered before. So, I think this is really brilliant. But I know a lot of leaders tie their identities around the role. And I know myself, I've struggled as I was turning the reins over to a new leader. I felt that all the work that I had done over the years was about to get undone. Now, this is kind of a challenge because my emotions were tied into some of that leadership change. How can leaders mitigate those emotions so that they can help the incoming CEO make better decisions or make a better transition?

Well, one of the things that I've really watched since 2013 working with all kinds of leaders is that you can't just stop being the person or the persona or the image that you were. You actually need to create Something new for yourself. So, if you're going from the person who does everything to the specialist, then you need to find a way for you to embrace who that is and how that person shows up in the world. Because if I just told you, hey Marc, you've just got to stop doing all those things and be fine with it, you might be able to do that for a day or two, but that's not really who you are. But if you can actually stop yourself and say, let's run the clock out. 2 years from now and I've transitioned the work I don't want to somebody and it's going extremely well and I get to spend my time and energy doing the things I love. Who am I? How do I show up? And start to act as if you already have achieved that. That will help you get there faster than feeling like you just have to stop, let go, ignore those issues. We have to create the new thing before we can move to it.

Love it! That's such great advice because the emotions get in there. And so, what you're saying is basically deferring those emotions into actionable items and planning what that's going to look like. So, a CEO who knows that they're not going to be with their company, with their organization forever, what do they need to do to start planning their succession?

If they could do one thing, I mean, it comes from the experience we've had with the pandemic. If we said, what if you're not going to be in your job 10 days from now? So, 10 calendar days, you will have to hand over your job permanently. And I would say, just challenge yourself in 15 minutes even to write down what would you say to somebody who was taking over? Who would you introduce them to? What computer directories would you put them to? Whatever it would take. But just spend 15 minutes just brainstorming what would you do in an emergency. Because an emergency can happen. And even if we have that, that will help us in an emergency. But if we have the emergency plan, if it's an orderly happy transition like a retirement or a promotion, we can start from the emergency plan. So, I think that's something everybody can do this week or this weekend.

Love it! And so, when you're thinking about this emergency plan then, what are some things that the CEOs must consider as they're putting this I would say that you start with the things that only the CEO knows or only the CEO has authority on.

And if I don't come back to work in 10 days, who's got that? So, who approves payroll? Who can change the website? Who's going to call major customers? Who are the major customers? So really thinking about those things that the CEO has knowledge on that if they just didn't show up, nobody would know how to get started. Those are the things that you really want to get down on paper. And don't just tell one other person. Tell a handful of other people. And I would say the one person that gets overlooked in the emergency plan is whatever your company has— an executive assistant, a receptionist, whoever has access to that calendar of the CEO. They should be the one with the list because they're the ones that are going to get called when something goes wrong.

Love it! Yeah. And you know, This is really great advice even for the roles of middle managers like anybody who's a department head or in charge of a portfolio of the business. This advice is just right on, hitting the nail on the head.

And you can have it as a fun team building. I mean, we don't want to talk about emergencies that they're fun. But given the state of the pandemic, it could happen to any of us. So, it could be a way to say, you know what? We're going to introduce this idea. We're going to give each person 5 or 10 minutes to write down. Then, we're going to get back together in a virtual room and brainstorm. And then, open it up to say, hey Marc, if you and I are a team and you've shared that you're suggesting I do these things, well, here's all the unanswered questions I would have for your job. And then, you'd be like, oh right, Jane. Oh, I never thought about that. And so now, you can fill out your own plan. And now, we've had a conversation. And if we had a third person in the room, they would ask yet again different questions. So now, We could fill out Marc's emergency plan, Jane's emergency plan, and the next person's in less than an hour.

Love it! This is so good. And the more that you're talking about that, the more I'm thinking about these incidental entrepreneurs, the ones who are running their business. They're working in their business day in, day out. What happens if they get ill? What happens if something happens to their family and they have to pull out of the business for a short period of time? It really does, having somebody coming in And working with them over the long term really does empower that the business can move forward.

Absolutely. And I think if you are an entrepreneur listening right now and you're the only shareholder in the business, or you're a shareholder with just your spouse and your spouse does not work in the business, I would say that I got a great piece of advice for somebody that was exactly in your shoes. And he was in one of my sessions. We were talking exactly about this topic. And he said, I just realized that if I died, It would all be dumped on my wife, who doesn't know anything about this business. I don't want to do that to her. So what he did that night, and he confirmed that to me, he phoned a few friends and said, "Hey, I'm going to put together a longer-term emergency plan for myself. But if something happens in between, will you be the one that says to my wife, 'Hey, I've talked to your husband. He wanted me to stop forward in this case.' And help you manage the business in the short term. And I have committed to him to do that. And he said it was just such a relief for him to know that one of his friends who had the skills to do it would have his wife's back. And then, he went and did the bigger plan. So, I just thought that was such a great insight. One phone call and it was off his mind. And he now had a buddy to work through his plan with because that buddy didn't really ever want to get that call either.

It just makes me want to ask the question to all the business owners out there. Who's the godfather of your business? I love that. So, we've talked a lot about the transition and stuff. Once everything is said and done, how can owners and boards assess the health of the transition in the long term?

I think all things we get overly complicated. I would say, Set a check-in. Either it's a virtual call, a coffee, a phone call at 30, 60, and 90 days into that transition and ask simple questions. What's going well? Or what's going along with your expectations? What's come up that you didn't expect? And how can we help each other better for the next 30 days?

Hmm.

So, it doesn't make anybody right or wrong. We're not trying to do a job or performance assessment. We're actually just trying to say, Hey, what did we do well in the planning? And then, what else has happened? And I think that openness actually creates joint problem solving rather than blame, or shame, or evaluation.

Yeah, love it! Love it! And it keeps those doors and that conversation going. I would even add probably is, what are some things that you're feeling frustrated about?

Yes.

Because that's where you're going to find interpersonal issues popping up and some challenges and roadblocks. may be in their way. So, I love that. And so, you mentioned 30, 60, 90 days. Is that as long as it takes? Or should there be like a longer-term plan of kind of— I really hate the word onboarding because I think that's finite. I like to call it forever boarding because then it opens it up. But are there other things past the 3-month mark where boards need to be on Like really reaching for the pulse.

Yeah, I would say it takes even a high-performing leader an entire business cycle to know everything. So, that's at least 12 months. For some businesses, it might be 18 months because there may not be things they do annually. And so, I think you're right. In that journey of that first business cycle, an easy way to deal with it is that every time that a business cycle is just opening, let's say it's the budgeting process. Just take 15 minutes and pause and say, hey, we have a new leader. What do they need to know about this process before we get started? And then, take 15 minutes at the back end of that process and say, okay, new leader, you've gone through this process for the first time. What else would you like to know or what else would you have liked to know? And so, we take it in small chunks, process by process, cycle by cycle. So, it's not Oh my gosh, 18 months of supporting this person. I've heard people use reference. What are they like, a diva? They need all this help? No, they need information at the time that they're responsible for it. So, if we put it into regular meetings in 15-minute chunks, they will hit the ground running.

There is the constant adage, what's wrong? This is just common sense. What is common sense in a business?

If I knew the answer to that, we would write a best-selling book, Marc. I think it just is like actually putting words to what somebody needs to know when they need to know it, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And of course, whenever anybody just says that, it's because they're frustrated with having to quote-unquote babysit. Or, you know, this person is so high needs because they're always asking me for information.

Yes. Well, we are businesses which have humans in them. So, that means we have to have a human connection. It takes some effort.

There you go. So, that just supports my other philosophy that if it wasn't for humans, businesses would be so much easier.

But not a lot of fun.

Not a lot of fun. Are there any cautionaries to what we're talking about today when people are thinking about this idea of transitioning out their managers or their leaders within their organizations? Are there some of the things that it's like really watch out for?

I would say don't start too late. I think that we always wait until the new person is here or that they're struggling. So, start early and keep the conversation going.

Love it!

Love it!

And that means don't wait until there's a resignation notice on your desk.

Yeah, absolutely. I would say that as soon as you know somebody's leaving their role, even if it's a retirement or that there's been a decision to terminate, we should start to think about transitioning in the next person. So, even in some roles, you may have 2 years' notice. Like under some businesses, their shareholders' agreements would have that long. So, let's start planning to say, well, let's watch our business over the next business cycle and say, what would the new leader have to learn? And gather that plan as we're doing the business cycle. So, it's okay to talk about it. And I think that's another piece that people make a mistake is that when somebody's retiring in particular, it's okay to acknowledge they're retiring. Like they're not dying. They are retiring. So, in many ways, the transition plan on a retirement is actually trying to land their unique knowledge, their legacy. It's a way to honor them and to say, you know what? How great would it be, Marc, if you were retiring and your final day you felt, I have nothing more to say. Like, I've actually passed on all my knowledge. That's the retirement gift we want to give people. I love it.

I love it. And what a way for somebody to go out, right? And not feel like they're leaving because they were dispensable but because they were actually a part of something.

Yeah, and maybe just to give people the heads up that Retiring leaders are their own kind of person because just like we talked about before, they don't often have the picture of what life after retirement looks like. They've usually planned the financial piece and that they know they can retire. They probably have some vague vision of golf and grandchildren. And maybe after the pandemic, some travel. But they haven't thought about who am I going to be after I leave this place. And if it's the business being sold, it's even that much more tied. So, how am I going to be after I'm not the owner of this business? And so, they go through a loss and grieving period. Many people that I know describe it as knowing that they're dying. And they're not dying. But we need them to get out and rest. And now, we say to them, so put 6 months on your calendar and then say, now, what am I going to do? Because people have the luxury of retiring and having lots of healthy lifestyle left. So, how are they going to come back and reengage in society? Is that through hobbies? Is it through a new business? Is it through mentorship? And for them to have that 6 months of exploration. But I think that what you'll see is those retiring leaders actually feel like they're dying. And we need to help them think differently about who they are after they leave here.

Yes. So right there, for an organization that cares about their people, right off the get-go, I think there needs to be some sort of a coaching program or mentorship program that people are set up with so they can be just as successful in retirement as they were in your organization.

Yes, and we shouldn't take small things for granted. One leader was completely distraught because he had been in the same company for 30 years. His executive assistant did everything from dealing with his IT problems to setting up their family vacations. And so, he told me he felt like a loser because he didn't know how to set up a personal email. Like he was asking me questions like, is it okay to have Gmail? Is that unprofessional? What's this thing called LinkedIn? Because he just knew nothing. And so, for him to actually create a functioning IT system and a digital persona, was so overwhelming and he felt embarrassed. And so, something that you can do is actually have the EA sort of set them up outside if that's something that's appropriate for your business. Or encourage them to find a virtual assistant or somebody to help them with that because they don't need to feel bad that they don't know. Their excellence has been doing other things in their business.

Yes, yeah. And they've proven it and they've got the t-shirts.

Yes.

It proves that they've been there. And they've done that. Jane, as we wrap up, do you have any other last thoughts about what we've been talking about today?

I would say that if the listeners could take away one thing is think about that emergency plan. And if you have no friends to talk to about it, write it for yourself and tell a friend, a family member, hey, you know what? I just heard this video podcast and this is the challenge. And I don't want to leave you high and dry. So, here it is. Or here's where to find it. And here's who else I'm going to share. So, I think that would protect all of us and it would start the ball moving in the right direction.

I love it! Create the emergency plan today. I love this. Jane, this has been absolutely fantastic. Could you just remind everybody one more time how they can get a hold of you if they need your services?

Yeah, please email me at jane@halford.co. And if you send me an email to that, I'd love to give you access to our online course called The Board's Role in Leadership Transition. But it would help anybody at any level just get ready for that handover. Be happy to arrange that free gift for you.

You know what? I would like just to slog it just a second. Could you tell us a little bit more about that online course?

Sure. It's actually built for busy board members. So, like think about busy business owners. And there are 5 very short videos about 10 minutes each. And the tools that are just like how we talked about today. Built for 15-minute segments so that you can keep the momentum going with your leadership transition. So, it's my best tips on leadership transition in less than an hour.

Wonderful! And so, we will put the link to that in the show notes so that they have access to it. Jane, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. And it really shows that this is a passion point for you. And this is your zone of genius. So, thank you so much for sharing with us today.

Thank you, Marc. And thank you for all the work you're doing for our business community. Keep up the great work!

Thank you. I'll talk to you when I'm at 10,000 views.

Oh, 100,000 must be coming this year.

Thank you, Jane, again.

Thank you.

That's all the time that we have today. I really appreciate that you were here today. And I certainly hope that you have got lots of notes down. You have lots of tips and techniques. And of course, that you can come back to this video and of course, review it. Time after time to really get online with what Jane had to teach us today. If you have any questions about today's episodes or would like a complimentary 30-minute brainstorming session with me with your team, feel free to book yourself on my online calendar. The link is down below. As always, I am at your service. And if you haven't done so yet, why don't you go ahead and subscribe to this podcast and follow me on social media? I'd love, again, love Love, love for you to be part of this conversation. My name is Marc Haine. I hope that you stay safe, stay healthy, and dare to be the exception.