Uncover the 7-Step Framework to Having Difficult Conversations

It is really easy to be a good manager when everything is going well. It's when the poop hits the fan that your values, beliefs, even your biases come bubbling to the surface. And nowhere is that more clear than when you have to initiate some really difficult conversations. And that's what we're going to talk about today on Marc Haine Live. Welcome to this episode! I am so glad that you are here with us. This is where small business owners and entrepreneurs pick up core skill sets to help them work on their business, not just in their business. I am your host, Service Expert and Master of Experiences Marc Haine. And my guest today is Expert Communication Coach Mike Garska. Today, we are going to talk about how you can initiate and have those really difficult conversations while Ensuring the psychological safety of the people or the person that you're addressing while you meet your goals and your aspirations. So, grab a notepad and a pen because today, we're going to be reviewing the 7-step framework to having difficult conversations. And we'll get to that in just a moment. In the meantime, feel free to subscribe to this program. I'd love to make absolutely sure that you don't miss a single episode. As it is released. And while you're at it, why don't you go ahead and let me know what you think of this episode? I always love a little bit of pushback. I love a little bit of conversation. So, in the comments on the show, why don't you go and tell me what you think? And even more importantly, if you think this is really good information and you know somebody who could use this, then why don't you go ahead and share it? It's so funny because just prior to us connecting, I was talking to Mike and we were saying, sometimes the people who need the information the most aren't the ones who are consuming it. So, if you know somebody who can use the information, go ahead and share it. You know, I remember that I had a really difficult conversation that I needed to have with one of my employees. The employee was smart, articulate, and extremely domineering. She was also a huge cancer on my team and I had to do something about it. And I remember the night before the meeting. I remember I lost sleep the night before just thinking in my head about what I would do, how I would talk to her, And so on. I have to be honest. I didn't particularly care for this person. But I was so determined that I wanted to treat her with respect and with fairness in everything that I did. And as I drove to work, I started thinking to myself, how I deal with this employee will reflect the kind of manager, the kind of leader that I want to be. And so, that brings us to our Question of the Day. So, on a scale of 1 to 5, how well do you handle having those really difficult conversations? I'd love for you to be part of this conversation. As I mentioned, I'd love to see your comments. 1 to 5, 1 being really poor, 5 being really great. How do you handle difficult And then, maybe put in why you rank yourself like that. What makes you comfortable or what makes you uncomfortable about it? My guest today is an expert business communications strategist. Mike Garska has spent the last 20 years coaching and consulting for family businesses and intact teams all over North America. As a serial entrepreneur himself, he knows that being able to say the right things at the right time to the right people is really key to his success. Mike, welcome to the show! It's so great to have you here.

Well, it's great to be here, Marc, and thank you for having me. I'm excited to have a chat with you.

Yeah, I think it's going to be awesome. Before we get into today's topic, could you dig a little bit deeper and tell me or tell our audience how do you serve your clients?

We serve our clients by helping them put in the systems and strategies needed for year after year after year growth to take advantage of their biggest asset, which is their people. You know, we don't succeed without a team. There's no goal that's ever achieved of any significance without the help and support of a team. And really, in a business, I think that I see it as a mastermind group. So, any business is a mastermind group with a collective objective. And Napoleon Hill said, whenever 2 or more minds come together, a 3rd invisible intangible force likened to a 3rd mind is created. Well, our business creates a 3rd mind unto itself. And any hindrance to that 3rd mind is people not feeling good, or feeling disrespected, or feeling confused, or not sure what to do, or not having clear expectations. And that all affects the effectiveness of that third force or third mind of our business. And within that business, our sales team is a mastermind unto itself creating sales. An accounting team is its mastermind collecting and spending money. Our shipping and receiving team is a mastermind group doing fulfillment. And so, not only do these mastermind teams work independently, but they have to collectively come together as a group and that management team that leads those people when they are cohesive, when communication is healthy between departments, and when people are able to resolve their issues because stuff happens. Things don't run smoothly every day. And so, when those issues come up, being able to deal with them very quickly and in a positive framework without blaming, without shaming, without, you know, by keeping it safe. Is critical. And whenever we have any member of a team that's feeling disgruntled in any way, that affects our profits in some way. That person is not fully engaged. So, if they're responsible for the cost part of the business, they're not caring as much. If they're responsible for the sales side of things, they're not caring as much because They're not feeling like they're cared about. And people's natural response when somebody doesn't care about me, I don't care about them. That's a natural response. Now, a strong leader can move past that and get into that positive frame of mind. There's something going on here. We can fix this. But that's not the natural response of people. When we're feeling disrespected, we tend to disrespect the other person.

Yeah, and we shut down. And it's interesting that you said that because of course, all the engagement Surveys out there are saying that 60% of the working population is actively disengaged in their jobs. When you see that you only have 15% of the working population in North America are highly engaged. And that's just really scary. And then, as I was doing research for this particular show and this particular topic, the quote came across, people quit their bosses, not their jobs. And I can't help but wonder how much of that interaction has to do with communications. Yes, there's biases and values. But what about the communication aspect of it?

Absolutely. Well, many people are not conscious of how they're affecting others. And even though our intention may be good, the effect because of our word choice, or our selection of body language, or facial expression, or tone of voice will have a negative effect that we didn't intend. Having said that, it's the effect that matters. When we talk about diversity and inclusion and that kind of stuff, it's the same thing. They talk about it's the effect that matters more than the intent. And so, we have to be tuned into what effect we're having on our team as a leader. And the only way to truly tune in to that is to have open dialogue. And that can happen in many different ways.

Yeah. Are there, you know, I do know that when I've talked to managers and I've talked to CEOs and so on, and they just shrug it off and they go, communication is great. And yet, you talk to the employees and they say, communication is siloed. It's like, we know what we're doing but we have no idea what the rest of the organization is doing. And then, somebody comes to us and they tell us they need this and they need that. And it just, you could see visually the effects of that stress. Are there signs that communication is ineffective that leaders should be on the lookout for?

Your basic signs are employee turnover. If there's a high employee turnover, there's issues. That's first and foremost. But the other signs are profits aren't where they should be. Efficiencies aren't where they should be. If anybody's that, you know, that's people are missing work. If people are using all their sick days, those are signs that communication isn't strong. If people are doing rework often, or dropping the ball, or making mistakes, that's a sign communication There's a problem with communication. Poor customer service. You're getting lots of customer complaints. It's all about communication. And that could be from the actual individual providing that service, or it could be a result of a chain reaction. If a person is not feeling on top of things, if they're feeling disrespected in any way, if they've had some kind of a a bad situation at work that they're not sure even what the cause of. That is going to affect their ability to serve. And so, there are those— the big one is the staff turnover. But the subtle ones are poor customer service, lower sales, costs out of control. All of those things are affected by how we communicate with our people because it's our people That as a team, like I mentioned earlier, help us control our costs or help us provide service to our customers or make those extra sales. And often, the owners and the senior manager aren't aware. And so, we need, in my opinion, we need things in place that will show us when those negative feelings are Prevalent. Often, work groups are talking about the poor leadership amongst themselves. But the managers don't know about that. The owner doesn't know about that. And if we don't have mechanisms in place to find out, if we don't have systems in place to find that Yeah, yeah.

So, you're mentioning this system. So, I'd like to really dig into the idea of what systems need in order to be effective. And we'll get into that right after this.

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Welcome back! I am speaking with expert communication coach Mike Garska. Mike, you're As we're talking about this, I could really see how this idea of communication kind of stirs the pot of dissatisfaction. You mentioned it affecting things like our sales and our profits and so on. But it's a contributing factor. I think overall, I think there's an overall cultural definition that needs to be done as well. Like communication is just one part of that. Or is that a driving force?

I think communication is actually a driving force in that it's, you know, we're social beings. And at work, everything we do is social. Even if we're sitting on the computer, we're still in some way, we're affecting other people. You know, the invoice we make up when people read it affects them. If it's, you know, I mean, that's kind of a poor example. But everything that we do is about interacting with other people. And when people feel like there's good connection, they work harder.

Right.

You know, when they feel like things are clear, like expectations are clear, they work harder.

Yeah, we've talked at length on this show about strategic plans, the importance of strategic plans for different parts of one's business. And I get a sense that this is no different for communications. What kind of systems do leaders need to have in place in order to effectively create internal and external communications that are going to be effective to them?

First thing we need to do is have systems in place so we can find out about things that are holding our business back or holding our people back in some way. And one of the things that I notice when I go into businesses is many of them lack an effective 2-way communication system that is consistent with And so, one simple system that you can put into place. Most companies do employee performance reviews. Yes? At different intervals. It depends on the company. Well, the first thing that we do with organizations is structure their performance reviews so that when the employee is getting his or her performance review, they have a simple one-sheet form that they fill out. Which gives the company a performance review at the same time as well as their leader. And so, it's a simple one-page form that we have each employee when they do their performance review. They actually give the company a performance review on the training, on the communication, on the leadership, and that kind of stuff. A quick review. And then, those forms are confidential. They're sent to the senior management and they use them as coaching tools for the manager. So, there's a feedback loop in there. The other thing that we've set up in our systems is we do annual performance reviews for departments. And again, we insert feedback loops in there so that the managers of the department get feedback on what they can do better. And in that process, they set goals for themselves on something they're going to do better next year. And we even go right to the senior management. What could have you done better to support this department last year? And we ask everybody in the meeting what that senior manager could have done better to support that department. When we ask the department manager or the department assistant manager, what's the one thing you could have done better to support your team this year? They give that. And then, we ask the other people in the meeting, what do you think that manager could have done better? And that feedback loop allows for the manager to set good strong goals and they get better year over year over year. So, those feedback loops are critical in your performance reviews. It's a great opportunity to get that information. And you find out where your weaknesses are in your leadership, where your weaknesses are in your systems for training, for communications, for customer service, that kind of stuff. So, it's about getting that feedback. The other way that you can do that, there's actually 3 spokes here. One is every 1 or 5 or 10 years, Do an employee satisfaction survey, a detailed employee satisfaction survey, 50 to 75 questions, and find out the things that your employees perceive that are hindering the performance of the company. And typically, if you do one and it's not good, the first one, you might want to do a second one within a year after you've made some changes and see if you're on the right track for improvements. But once you're in place and your retention rates are good and things are going smoothly, every 5 years to do a quick check-in is a good idea. And the third thing that you want to do is consistently make sure every individual in your company is in a consistent scheduled meeting. They follow a consistent agenda. And in those meetings, one of the things that I hear often about meetings is, we do these meetings and nothing ever happens. We do these meetings and we go off track and they're a waste of time. One of the things that people often that I witness when I go in and watch a company doing their general managers meeting, for example. They come up with all these ideas and they write them down. But nobody goes away with an action item. And the companies that excel, anytime a new idea is brought up in a meeting, an action item is created. It's assigned to somebody. A date for either a progress report or completion is given. And then, it's written in the minutes. And every— so, if you're doing your meetings once a week, or once a month, or daily, whatever they are, you review last meeting's minutes and everybody has to become accountable to their action items. And so, adding that little item of action items for any new idea that comes up is a real lifesaver for businesses.

Yeah, I can see that it turns it from being just a smoke in the clouds idea to actually being a concrete doable action.

Yes. And when you get the report back, maybe, you know, hey, this idea doesn't work. So, take it off the list.

That's cool.

But at least somebody's going forward with it. And it's really important. So, consistent meetings with make sure there's action items and keep those meetings simple. You want to follow the consistent agenda. Old business, new business, roundtable, get out of here.

Right?

Instead of— and the new business is obviously a list of things that you bring up that are new for this week, or this month, or whatever the meeting schedule is.

Well, I think when you say about new ideas and that sort of thing, well, I think that brainstorming sessions are much different from meetings. And I think at the same token, that might be another cog in that wheel is that instead of bringing up new ideas in meetings, you could use brainstorming sessions to get much more effective ideas on the table.

Well, when a new idea comes in, then you assign what I call a task force or a team. And they go out and do their brainstorming session or their masterminding session. And then, they report back to the main meeting.

Right.

Yeah, you want to keep that brainstorming, I mean, out of the meetings in general because they just drag them on then.

Yeah, takes it really off track. Mike, this is really great. For people listening in on this, how could they get a hold of you if they want to call you up and pick your brain or see what you're up to and see how you can help them?

Our website primarily is success-toolchest.com. And there, you can go through Contact Us. But there's also a link there where you can book a free 45 to 60-minute business communication strategy session. I specialize with companies that have work groups of at least 20 or 25 people. I don't usually— well, I don't work with people, companies that have less than that. Because our specialty is getting that team to come together and work collectively. So, that's the best way to get a hold of me is through the website.

Perfect! You were mentioning the idea of doing effectively 360 evaluations, 360-degree evaluations where the employees have to bring in their comments and such. Part of the challenges I've seen is in many organizations, the trust is so low where you have this what we talked about at the very beginning. All this dissatisfaction, disengagement, and so on that you also have a very low level of trust. How important then is it for organizations to bring in third-party contractors to come in and do some of the evaluation processes?

I think that really helps with building trust because first of all, your employees see that you're committed to making things better, that they see that you understand that they're afraid to be open and honest. And so, by bringing in that third party, that mediator to decide what or to make sure that the feedback that they gather is anonymous so that the people feel safe sharing.

Yeah.

So, that third-party person provides that bridge so that people can still stay on their own side of the bridge and feel safe, share it. And then, the facilitator or consultant or whoever you— whatever you want to call it can make that information more generic and not tied to one individual.

Yeah, yeah.

And typically, you're going to see patterns once you start this process. This week, you're going to see patterns. And it's not going to be just one person bringing up the concerns that are truly or the issues that are truly holding the company back.

Yeah, I can't help but wonder what are the virtues like humility and ego? How do those come into play when leaders need to communicate effectively?

Well, I mean, humility is critical. Understanding that yes, I bring skills to the team. But so does everybody else. And being humble to know that I'm not the only one that is having effect of my department. It's the entire department that is contributing to the success of— to my success as a leader. Without my team, I can't be successful. And so, being humble enough to know that I require the full support and buy-in of my team is really, really critical. And if we live in that ego space that without me, this team is nothing, is really not healthy. And in the end, it disengages your people and you're not getting the productivity that you could get. So, humility is critical. And then, that genuine sense of curiosity is very, very important. And it's an important aspect of humility. What's going on for the other person? Because the truth is, I don't know. That is the truth. When we're teaching people the contact framework for navigating difficult conversations, the first step, the first C in contact stands for communicate with yourself first. And we walk people through the Human interaction process, the process that we all communicate in as humans, to get aware. And realizing that our human interaction process, which is a 5-step process when we're communicating, you and I as we're having this conversation, we're both— first thing that happens is one of our 5 physical senses kicks in. So, in most cases, we're seeing and hearing things in this situation. So, I see or I hear something. As soon as that happens, An emotion is triggered in our body. And we know that the emotion is triggered before the thought. It triggers in the lower amygdala part of the brain. Daniel Goleman and his people figured that out using scientific information. As soon as that feeling is triggered, almost instantaneously, a thought pattern is also triggered. And we begin to think about what we're feeling and what we just witnessed. And as soon as we go through that, and this happens in milliseconds, as soon as we go through that thought-emotional sense, process. We gain an intention. We decide we want something. And this happens in every human interaction process. And from that intention, we choose our action. We might speak words. I'm using my hand gestures here. You know, we might be silent. We might walk out of the room. But we go through that process. And that human interaction process is an automatic process for every individual. And it's as unique as our DNA. And it happens as a result Of everything that we've taken in from birth until this moment right here, right now. Okay? And so, because no 2 people take in the exact same information, no 2 people are going to have the exact same automatic human interaction process response. And when we're navigating a conflictual situation, Stephen Covey, 7 Habits of Highly Effective People says, seek first to understand then to be understood. And so, the first step in contact is communicate with yourself first. Find out what's going on in my HIP, my human interaction process. Second step is to share a little bit about that. Third step is— so that's opening up, sure and wise. We're sure what's going on for us. The third step is noticing the other person and finding out about their human interaction process. And that ties back into being humble. Yes, there's 2 people in this conversation. 2 people matter. And I'm not going to be able to influence this person because when I'm having a difficult conversation, I want to influence the other person to change in some form, right? So basically, I was selling the other person on the idea of changing. And I can't affect change without first understanding where the other person is at. So, I've got to find out. I got to notice the other person, understand them thoroughly before I can start to have that influence. And so, it's critical that we notice the other person even in any— and I see in that intention part of the human interaction process where we want something to happen. We want to influence somebody in almost every situation. I see that as actually a sales process. So, every human interaction is actually a sales conversation. I mean, if I look at a magazine and I see, Trip to Jasper, and I go home to my wife and I say, Geez, let's— I saw this thing in the magazine. Let's go to Jasper. Well, I'm selling her on the idea of going to Jasper. And Brian Tracy, one of the top sales trainers in North America throughout the late 1900s said, that when we're selling, the best salespeople focus their energy on the other person, not on themselves or the product. It's the same thing in any communication interaction. We focus on the other person, what's going on for them, and if we want to influence them. And we don't focus on ourselves and our wants and our needs. So, notice the other person quickly is the N in CONTACT. T means tune in to actively listen. And in the full program, we give you 17 tips for active listening. But basically, Snap on, face the speaker, turn off the internal chatter and the external distractions. So, that's tuning in. The A in contact stands for ask again, clarify. And that's about— there are 3 different types of empathy. We want to validate each person in that ask again process. Get it clear. Get clear understanding of what each person is thinking, feeling, and wanting and not wanting. Okay? And then, the C in contact, the second C stands for common intentions. So, we focus in on that intention part of the human interaction process. And at work, it's actually quite easy to find common intentions. We're both here because we need food and shelter. So, we're both here to make money. We're both here to serve our customers. Most people want to do a good job so they keep their job. So, we're both here because we want to serve our customers well. What's hindering that process? And so, as we talk about common intentions, solutions will naturally appear. And the second, the last T in CONTACT stands for take it next level. Agree on the solutions. Assign action items. Walk away because it's a meeting. Assign action items for each person. And then, do your follow-up. And that's the CONTACT framework. Now, I mean, I gave it to you in 10 minutes here. It's 5 hours of video training because we go into details of specific words to use, specific words not to use, how to express your body language, your facial expression, your Yeah, I love that.

And again, the contact framework that you just outlined for us is like drinking from a fire hose. One of my biggest fears when people watch stuff is that I get a sense that some people just want to— they get some new information. They go, oh, okay, that's the secret to my success. So, I have to implement this right away. So, I'd like to get into some cautionaries of kind of applying the learning that people are getting today And we'll get to that right after this.

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Welcome back! I am speaking with Mike Garthka and we're talking about having those really tough conversations, those really tough communication challenges that organizations have. And Mike just talked about his 7-step framework, the contact framework for communication. And so, just to summarize it real quick, Mike, could you just go over them one more time? What the acronym means?

Real quickly. First, C in CONTACT. Communicate with yourself first. Become self-aware. O in CONTACT. Open up, sure, and wise. Sure, making sure you know exactly what's going on for you because you've just communicated with yourself. Wisely, using the proper I statements and using the word you properly. The N in CONTACT stands for notice the other person quickly. Seek first to understand, then to be understood. So, ask about their human interaction process. The T in CONTACT stands for tune in. Once you've asked, listen. Take the time to actively listen. Tune in to them. The A in CONTACT stands for ask again. Once you've listened to them, we got to make sure we've got it right. Interpretations happen in almost every single conversation. People interpret words differently. People see different things. They even see different words if they're reading things on paper sometimes. So, you've got to ask again and clarify. The second C stands for common intentions. And focus in on the intentions part of things. Look for the common intentions at work. It's not so difficult. We're both here to give good service to our customers, whether those are internal or external customers. And in a business, everybody's serving a customer. An accountant is serving the sales manager, the shipping and receiving manager, giving them their So, they know what's going well and what's not. So anyway, focus on that customer service. We're here to serve customers in that common intention part of things. Solutions will naturally appear. And then, take it next level simply means agree on solutions, write them down. Make sure that both people walk away with action items on what they're going to do as a result of this conversation. And then, do your follow-up and your check-in and make sure that things are going well. So, that's the T in CONTACT is take it next level.

You mentioned that this is part of a 5-hour course that you have. Could you talk a little bit about that?

CONTACT 2020 is a 5-hour pre-recorded course. And it's supported by weekly live Q&A coaching sessions. So, you get 12 months of Q&A because habit, how we talk and how we communicate is a habit. And habits are only replaced or changed by replacing them with new habits. And that takes practice.

And okay, and I just want to pull my cautionaries out here that I typed.

Hi! So, I'm talking with Mike Garska and we're talking about this idea. He reviewed his 7-step contact framework with us and the importance of being able to put those 7 components together to effectively communicate. Mike, one of the challenges I see constantly is this idea that people will get a new idea and they'll go, oh my God, I need to get this. I need to kick this off right away in my business because this is such a good idea. If we can get those 7 things together, it'll be really great. What are the cautionaries to applying this kind of information?

Actually, any cautionary— I got to share this one with you because I can't remember where I learned this. But it's been part of my philosophy for at least 20 years, 15, 20 years. Whenever we have a really, really good idea, sit on it for 2 weeks. If it's truly a really good idea, it will still be a good idea in 2 weeks. And now, there are times where— okay, I was in the cell phone industry for 9 years. I owned 3 stores. And there were times where you can't afford to wait 2 weeks. So, the major competitor throws a deal out there. And if we wait 2 weeks, we're gonna We're going to lose our market share or part of our market share. So, you've got to respond quickly and wait 2 weeks. So, that's one of my go-to mottos when it comes to a new idea. The other one is I'm a big believer in masterminding. So, when I get a really good idea, pull in my 4 top business mastermind or business mentors and have a mastermind session. Now, if I can't get them all into one room, now we can do Zoom. But if we can't even get them all together at the same time, I can just have a quick one-on-one session with all 4 of my business mentors and then take all the information and assimilate it together and do that. But do a quick mastermind session. That 4 people in a mastermind group or a task force or whatever you want to call it, It's just a very powerful number. And make sure that at least one of those people in our mastermind group is a devil's advocate. Well, look at both sides and point out, hey man, what if you do this and this happens? This ain't gonna work. You want to have that devil's advocate so we get full perspective of the best way to do things. And so, I think back the first person that introduced me to Masterminding and Napoleon Hill. And he actually, we got right into it. We talked about it a lot. And he actually did a— had this, I don't know what you call it. It was like a trance channeling or something. But he came up with this formula.

And he wrote a little—

there was a little booklet that he had written all this information down. But this really sticks out in my mind. 4 wise men close and 2 distant make up the nucleus of your mastermind. And I learned that in my early 20s and I've used it throughout my business career. So, I use 4 business mentors. If I have an idea, I go to my 4 key mentors and I discuss that issue.

And then, I use 2 people that are a little bit more removed.

So, in a business, we have a 4-person mastermind. Let's say it's me, the owner, the general manager, maybe the sales manager, and maybe the accountant. And then, for the outside guys, I might want to bring in a business coach or a lawyer. Or an outside accountant and get those 2 outside perspectives. And when you brainstorm and mastermind with some and having one person that's a devil's advocate, you can truly come up with a really strong plan to implement any new idea. So, don't do it all on your own. Wait 2 weeks unless it's a reactionary thing to a competition and you're going to lose market share. You don't have 2 weeks. Okay, you get your mastermind team together right now and you respond in 24 hours. I just remember doing that. in the cell phone industry because it was moving so fast. But that's the cautionaries with those new ideas anyway.

Nice!

Does that answer your question, Marc?

This has been such a great conversation. Do you have any last thoughts about what we've talked about today?

The only thing I would say, and it brings me to Warren Buffett's quote from Warren Buffett that I often use. And it's basically, if you want to double your value and double your wealth, enhance your communication skills. If you truly want to, the one sure way to double your value and your wealth is to become a better communicator.

Nice. Fantastic! So many resources out there as well, including your course. And the link to that will be in the show notes. This is all the time that we do have for today. Could you remind everybody one more time how they could get a hold of you?

success-toolchest.com. Success Tool Chest, one word, or .com. And anybody that uses the code MarcHaine, one word, will get a 50% discount on the contact program. It has to be used within 24 hours. And that is That includes 12 months of weekly support. Or you can go there and book a free 45-minute strategy call for those people that have businesses of 20 more employees. And I'm happy to help you for an hour. Just tell me your biggest challenge and you and I will figure out how to fix that together. So, successtoolchest.com. Book a 45-minute call. It's on the main landing page, a link for that call.

Thank you very much. And thank you so much for giving my name value.

You're welcome.

It's been great having you, Mike.

And it's been a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much for inviting me, Marc. I look forward to talking to you again soon.

Thanks so much! As always, my offer stands. If you would like 30 minutes of my time to brainstorm your business with you and your team, please feel free to book yourself on my online calendar. The link is down below in the show notes. It is meetme.so/MarcHaine. Marc Haine. As always, I am at your service. And oh yes, don't forget to mark your calendar for November 5th and 6th. We will be hosting the Fall 2021 Audacious Leaders Summit. It's months away at this point. But put it in your calendar and check it out. You can check it out at audaciousleaderssummit.com. And if you haven't done so yet, why don't you go ahead and subscribe to this That'll give you first dibs whenever I bring you fresh content that will help you work on your business, not just in your business. My name is Marc Haine. I hope you stay safe, stay healthy, and dare to be the exception. Thanks so much!