What Every Leader Needs to Know About Teams and Culture

Today, more than ever, leaders are suffering from a lack of connection with their teams. With contentious policies around masks and vaccine mandates, remote workers, and labor shortages, how are leaders able to coax the very best from their team members? That's what we're going to be talking about today on Marc Haine Live. Welcome to this episode of Marc Haine Live. This is where small business owners and entrepreneurs pick up core skill sets to help them work on their business, not just in their business. I am your host, Service Expert and Master of Experiences Marc Haine. And today, my guest is Chief Inspiration Officer Tony Martinetti. We will be talking about the mindset leaders need to adopt and how to set the foundational seeds to drive effective teams. But before we get into that, I just wanted to remind you to subscribe to this podcast. Go ahead, subscribe, ring the bell, and that'll give you notifications whenever I bring you fresh new content. While you're at it, feel free to follow me on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and of course, LinkedIn. Of course, on Instagram. And please go ahead and use the hashtag #ExperienceLeadership. I was just speaking with a local business owner who is really at her wit's end. She is prepping for the Christmas season. And aside from all the supply chain issues that she's facing, finding capable and willing staff and keeping them engaged is her biggest thorn. So that brings me to Our Question of the Day. So, what angst are you up against with your teams? Go ahead and share your experience on social media and make sure that you hashtag it #ExperienceLeadership. My guest today, as I mentioned for this episode, is the the mountain Sherpa of game-changing leaders, Tony Martinelli. Martinelli. Sorry, Tony. Tony Martinelli. Tony is a trusted advisor, entrepreneur, idea generator, and people connector. He brings practical experience, formal training, and extreme curiosity to help elevate leaders and equip them with the tools to navigate through change. He is the host of the Virtual Campfire Podcast and the author of Climbing the Right Mountain: Navigating the Journey to an Inspired Life. Welcome to the show, Tony! It's so great to have you.

Thank you so much, Marc. I'm thrilled to be here.

Tony, maybe you could kick us off a little bit. Tell us a little bit about what you do for your clients. How do you serve them?

Yeah, it's funny you say that serve is the key word because Sometimes you're doing things that are not always going to please people, but you really want to make sure that you're in service of them, which is so important. So, the work I do with my clients is really helping them to see things that they don't normally see for themselves. I help them to climb the right mountain. Oftentimes, they are accomplished leaders who've gotten to this place where they're not feeling fulfilled any longer. They feel like there's something missing. They feel stuck. And so, I help them to reconnect.

So, who specifically do you serve? I know you said business operators and entrepreneurs. But do you have a specific industry that you serve?

I've worked across a multitude of industries. I came from a background of working in the life sciences. But I found since I've been on this journey that I've worked across many different innovative industries from high-tech to biotech to even the entertainment industry. Worked with companies like WarnerMedia and worked with companies in the oil and gas industry.

In our neck of the woods. So, Tony, we're starting off talking a little bit about the challenges that leaders have with the fact that we're dealing with remote workers. We have supply chain issues. We have really contentious policies now when it comes down to mask mandates and vaccine mandates and all that sort of thing. Leading in high-performance teams, where do you find that people are becoming the most handicapped now?

Yeah, the biggest handicap is being in a hybrid workplace and not really adapting to this new world that we're in, which is really reality is this is how we're going to be leading forward. And so, it's really making sure that you embrace how we're going to be now. We've changed. We've all changed. And we need to be able to adapt to that change.

Have you seen that for a lot of leaders that there has been a real kind of wrench in the gears throughout the pandemic that they maybe might not have been prepared for everything that's happened the last 20 months?

Yeah, I mean, The biggest challenge I've seen that people have not been able to embrace is not they haven't realized how hard it would be to communicate with people fully, to truly understand the challenges that they're facing. And it's more than just the challenges of oh, how can I get my job done? But how how am I dealing with the emotional impact of not being in person with the people I work with and not feeling the connection that I used to have when I was working in person. And now, the feeling that things won't ever be quite that same way. Even if we do go back to the office, there's an element of fear of re-engaging.

Yeah, yeah. No, I can absolutely see that. In the last 20 months, we had— I remember when March 2020 came around. By the time May rolled around in 2020, we had all the software to do monitoring of people's devices because the big things that leaders were concerned with was, now that people are working from home, how do I know they're doing the work? And so, we've had that level. And then, we've had people who fared really well.

What has been the difference between the leaders who've really, really suffered Yeah, I think it comes down to one key word, which is the ability— well, 2 keywords. Number one is the ability to have built trust with the people around them. If they've built a foundation of trust before coming into this period and even during, then that is going to be able to help them get through this period. It's really made a big difference as to how they could take care of themselves and allow their teams to manage their flow of work. But also connection. Connection, and sometimes the other word communication, which is really the foundation of connection. Being connected with people, having conversations that allow them to know that they're there and I see you and I know that You're still working hard. And even though you're not in the office, I know what you're up to and I'm here to support you.

How much of what leaders have to contend with now— trust I think is a really good word because I think that's the one thing that held people back from ever doing any kind of a remote work or hybrid work environment before the pandemic ever hit. And of course, the lack of trust is what spawned all this technology for playing Big Brother on people's computers to be able to see how much time they were working and what they were working on as opposed to really setting down objectives and actually leading through objectives. But how much did mindset have to play for leaders?

Oh, it's a game changer really. When it comes down to it, your mindset towards how you're approaching how you deal with people and how you're dealing with navigating through these challenging times, we'll call it. It's really important that you're approaching this from a, what are we learning about ourselves? What are we learning about this new environment? So, I often come back to that learning mindset much more than just the growth mindset. I think it's about embracing the changes we're going through and seeing, even though we're not going to be perfect, we're not always going to know what to do, what can we learn in this moment that will take us to the next step and the next step after that? That is so important to embrace. And that mindset allows you to let other people know that you're trying to do the best by them. And they feel it when you're in that place.

Yeah.

If you're trying to fake it and say, oh, I know where we're going. I know how we're doing this. So transparent. It goes right through and they pick up on that.

Yeah, it's so interesting that you said that because one of the things I think, if any generation has been tagged with having to be challenged with it, would be the baby boomers. The people who grew up kind of carrot and sticking their way through life and through their teams. And now, it's a question of in order to get this learning mindset, we now have to have the humility to admit that we don't have all the answers.

Yeah, yeah. I really think so. And it's funny because it is humbling. But at the same time, knowing that when people can see you're looking for them to help you along this journey even though you're the leader, there's an element of saying, we're going through this together. Let's help each other. And they feel like there's an element of wanting to be part of that journey together. It's actually something that enlists them and actually motivates them forward to be part of the team endeavor to see where we can go together as opposed to, oh, where's this person leading me?

I love that. Like such a great philosophy. But you yourself have been challenged. I mean, the one thing I loved when we set up to do this show You mentioned this thing about you had the audacity to leave the room to change the room. Can you talk a little bit about what that is all about?

Yeah. So, let me give a little bit. I'll go a little bit behind that before I get into that very sentiment. I spent 25 years in the corporate world and it's been an amazing journey. But I got to this place where After going through some ups and downs, some burnout, and then kind of coming out of that burnout, I got to this place where I was sitting in a boardroom and feeling like, okay, I want to do something more meaningful with my work, but I don't know what it is yet. I'm sitting here and collecting a paycheck, working in an industry that is really saving lives, an amazing and very heartfelt endeavor. But ultimately, I saw as I looked around the room that these leaders, they were not worried about inspiring people. They weren't really as focused on the patients as I had hoped, as I'd come to know in the industry that I was working in. They were focused on their own self-image. They were worried about how I looked. And how they would be portrayed and who was right and who was wrong. So I came to this place where I said, well, here are all these people sitting in this room who are completely checked out, looking at their cell phones, and they're not engaged. I'm not engaged. This can't be the way to live life. This can't be the way to lead a company. And so I decided at that moment that I think I've got to stop doing this. So I decided to get up and walk out and leave the room. I didn't have a plan, but I knew that whatever I was going to do, I was going to leave that room to change the room. That was my path. It's not what I necessarily prescribe for everyone, but it is something that it required me— it was a catalyst for me to move in the direction of what I needed to do.

Yeah.

to move into the work that I was called to do.

I love that. And it's so important that there's all sorts of stats about employee engagement. And it says that essentially, by the time somebody decides to resign their jobs, that they would have essentially been disengaged for at least 3 months beforehand. And so, as a leader and being somebody in your realm, being able to recognize that in yourself and just say, you know what? Yeah, I don't have a plan. But I know that this is not it. And to be able to do that really must have been a difficult decision. But it must have also been one that you really had to toy with those emotions driving that.

Yeah, there's so many things that came up for me. And I've come to see it as this aspect of having the courage to follow the spark. The courage that it takes to really say, I'm going to leave the comfort of Of my paycheck, of the benefits. And I've talked to so many leaders who have been in this situation too, where they find themselves like, I've got a comfortable situation. If I wait a little longer, I'll get a big payout when we IPO or we do this or do that. But they find themselves just tolerating their lives as opposed to living it.

Yes.

And so, what I found myself in this moment was saying to myself, I don't know what the future looks like. But I know this is not my life and I need to follow the courage of my spark and figure out what it could be. And what I found as I did that, and just to kind of give you this clarity, what I figured out is that I was holding myself back from who I was by defining myself based on my role, on the titles, on the things that I was, that most people do. They say, I'm the finance person. So therefore, I act this way. I do these things. This is what I'm capable of. No, not true.

They kind of put themselves in their own little box. I loved your phrase, having the courage to follow the spark. If you're watching this, you need to put that into a tweet. You need to put because that's a brilliant, a brilliant Definition, having the courage to follow the spark. I'd like to jump into some conditions leaders need to create to effectively lead high-performing teams. And we'll get to that right after this.

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I am speaking with Advisor and Chief Idea Officer Tony Martinetti. Tony, we are seeing reports of high cases of burnout, increased mental health issues, and of course, the Great Resignation. In your opinion, are leaders right now on the wrong track?

I mean, it's hard to paint everyone with the same brush because there are a lot of great leaders out there who are doing the right things. And they're starting to really create the environment for people to see how to move forward in the right direction. But that's not the case across the board. I've been starting to think about this as being this chance to not see it as a Great Resignation but more of the Great Realignment, which is really about leaders to take this chance to say, how can we get people realigned with what we're trying to do here? So, I talked earlier about communication and connection. Well, this is the greatest opportunity for a leader to say, okay, I don't know where we're headed. This is what I know. This is what I don't know. This is the vision I have for us to move forward. If you like the picture I'm painting, then come along. And this is what I can tell you we're going to try and do. If you don't, if it doesn't align with who you want to be, then Yeah, by all means, you know, find the organization, the place that really connects with who you are.

Mm-hmm.

Because the most important thing to do is make sure that people are aligned with who— with where you're going. And that's probably changed if you've, you know, everyone's been impacted over the past 2 years. So, if your business is still staying to the same plan it was 2 years ago, then you might be running a bit stale and people might be falling out of favor because you haven't done a realignment or rethought how you're telling your story.

How important is it for the leaders to actually include their teams now in this idea of strategic planning, strategizing for the uncertainty that is our future? Yeah.

Well, it's a great question. And so, there's kind of a balancing act here. Which all things leadership have an element of balance to it. There's a starting point where maybe the leader has to put out the opening stakes. This is the starting point, but leave it open to interpretation, leave it open to question and to kind of co-create around it. But there has to be something that starts.

Yeah.

So once they put down that starting point, then people can feel comfortable, or they should feel comfortable to riff off of it and then get alignment around that. So I think that's important. You never want to have this dictatorship where someone says, this is what it's going to be, take it or leave it. It's done and put into into sand. We have nailed it. You want to make sure that people have a chance to say, do you agree or not agree? What would you do differently?

A lot of small businesses would— business owners would actually push back on you for that. In that, this is my business. This is— I built this business for 20 years. Who am I, right? What would you say to them? What becomes that catalyst to help them change that mindset?

If you want people who are going to help you build and to enhance your, your quote unquote baby, then give them some ownership in it. You want everyone to feel like they have some element of agency on the work that they're doing. If they don't feel like they have some agency over their work, then they're not going to get fully engaged. They're not going to be motivated. So ultimately, if you give people a sense of like, I feel like when I go to work, I'm doing something that is bigger than myself and I'm contributing to something that means something to me, then you've unlocked that intrinsic motivation, which is so important to tap into. And that's what creates the 1 1 100, as opposed to 1 1 maybe 2.

Mm-hmm.

Might be -1.

Yeah, the days of, I'm the boss so I will tell you what to think, is long gone, right? Because I mean, we now need people's minds and their soul and their heart, as well as their hands, right? So yeah, so that's just a brilliant thing. And we've talked in past episodes about the need to find out where people's passion projects lie, right? Google had the 15% time. You know, 3M had a similar kind of program where people were able to develop projects on their own for the benefit of their companies. But they could focus on their pet projects. And because of that, they have proven higher engagement, proven higher contribution. Everybody's getting stepping up and having the voice. But somewhere, you need the humility for leaders to turn around and say, hey, let's take a chance.

Yeah.

What do you think holds the leaders back from taking on that attitude?

Taking on the attitude of giving people the flexibility to explore?

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, if they're—

It's just a little question.

Yeah, just a little question.

Just a little question.

If they're, you know, if it's a public company, what often happens is there's this element of board and other stakeholders external pressures to perform that really gets in the way. And I think that's where I've seen some leaders really push back and say, no, I can't give in to all that pressure. I have to know what's right for me and for my company and what's really going to drive results. So, if I don't feed the engine, the engine will stall. So, I think it's important for a leader to get clear about what is important. And from time to time, check in with themselves and say, where am I at right now? Are we doing enough to feed the future? Are we doing enough to feed the innovation and the creativity of our team? So, that's one aspect of it. And the other aspect of it is we just get so stuck in patterns and we say, it's not that we have ill intent. It's just that oftentimes we say we have to double down on this area because if we don't accomplish this one thing, then we won't exist. We have to find ways to be creative also in thinking, how can we ensure we're doing the number one thing, but also make sure that we don't lose sight of the future? What else could be happening? How could we become creative in the way that we're doing the number one. But also, what happens if the number one fails?

Yeah. And it goes back again to going to purpose and mission. It's going back to the purpose and mission and saying, okay, so it failed. So what? What's the next step now? How do we move forward?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which brings me to one of the most important things is I think it's like a lot of people will think, okay, You know, planning. I was a finance person, so I often was thinking about plans, doing strategic plans all the time. But ultimately, planning is everything, but the plan is nothing. So you have to always be thinking, what's the plan? But also being open to adapting and pivoting as you go through the execution of that plan. So important to stay nimble and to be able to be open.

Yeah.

to being wrong, to being able to flex and form in different ways. I know it's easier said than done. But it's actually a muscle that can be built from an organizational standpoint, not just individually.

Right. And I think it's going to be interesting to look back maybe 15 or 20 years from now and to look back at this time and see what were the components that helped businesses survive and thrive versus what what created businesses to shut the doors down. Because I mean, obviously, we have the pandemic. We have the onset of internet purchasing and sales. And so, brick and mortars are having a challenging time. So, we have all these different components that is coming into this era. And it's going to be really interesting to see how that plays out when we look back at it from a historical perspective.

Yeah, yeah. You made me think of One of the things I often share with people, and this is a— I should probably patent this at some point, I don't know. But I often say, expand your vision, narrow your focus. Expand your vision, narrow your focus is this model that I've used with people where oftentimes during this pandemic, especially when people saying like, ah, I don't know where we're headed. I don't know what to do next. I'm feeling a little bit like we're stuck. And so they're staring at that wall and then saying to themselves, like, gosh, what now? So I'm often thinking, like, well, what are— what's on the periphery? What's out? What's around you? So step away from your problem and look at it from different angles. Take a brighter— a broader view of things. Expand your vision. And then once you see the other possibilities, maybe it's a partnership, maybe it's moving to an online service as opposed to a brick and mortar. And then once you see those possibilities, you can't do them all. So you got to figure out, how do I narrow my focus so that I can execute with intention and get things done? Because knowledge without action is useless. And so, it's important to make sure that you figure out what you want to do and then take action. Oftentimes, we get so paralyzed in the— we don't know. It's all risk. There's all this risk involved with taking that next step. But you have to take some action. So ultimately, once you get that new information, you have to take a step and see what happens.

Yeah, I love it. And I love the fact as well that you mentioned that this idea of having to step out, from where you are. And sometimes, we can't. Sometimes, we can't see the forest for the trees. And this is why a lot of times when we have this broadcast, we've talked about the power of bringing coaches on board. And so, as a coach yourself, could you let everybody know how they can get in touch with you if they want to look you up and use your services?

Absolutely! I'd be thrilled to have people reach out to me to have a conversation. The best place to find me is on my website inspiredpurposecoach.com. And what I usually do is I start with a brief conversation to get a sense of, is there a fit? What's the problem we're trying to solve for? And what are the things that they're trying to accomplish in the coming months, years, what have you? And I think that's the starting point, whether it's individually or with a team. That's what I love doing is understanding people. And their challenges.

Love it! Love it! We're uncovering a lot of really great information about what leaders need to do to adjust themselves first, that they have to work on themselves first before they can lead those high-performing teams. So, if you're enjoying today's episode, please go ahead and leave a review and share it on LinkedIn. And don't forget to use that quote about following your spark. Now, we've talked about leader's mindset. What do you think are the foundations once the leader works on themselves and they say, yeah, you know what? I'm jumping onto this virtue of humility. I am jumping on the virtue of trust. But now, I need to create the foundations for effective teams. What do they need to be looking at?

Yeah, so one of the things we haven't really talked about is making sure that you have this ability to see the need for different thinking, divergent thinking on your team. You know, one of the things that people always shy away from is conflict, right? A lot of the things that we're mentioning here, I always hearken back to one of my favorite books about teams is Patrick Lencioni's Five Dysfunctions of a Team, which is so funny because it's like, why would you want to focus on the dysfunctions? But the reality is, when you look at how bad it can get, you kind of flip the coin and you look at these things that you can do to make them better. And one of them is this element of needing— if you avoid conflict, you, in essence, hold yourself back. So, it's important to embrace healthy conflict because conflict, like friction, is what we're looking for. Friction creates growth. It creates this element of going back and forth and seeing how you can make each other's ideas better. I'll borrow from improv for a moment to say the yes, and is really— if you were just to say, here's my idea, and everyone just says, yep, okay, done, and then you just move forward, then you're limiting yourself from what's possible.

Yeah.

But if you say, that's great, yes, and let's do this too. It's like, I honor that, but let's transcend that and go here as well if that's something that you guys are all on board with. Or, no, that won't work. Let's try a different approach. How about we do this? You have to be able to do it in a way that respects each other and allows it to be more generative.

I love that. So, you're using the word generative. So, it's in order to generate ideas, generate systems, and so on based on those ideas.

Yes. And I just want to add one thing to this, which is interesting because we talked about balance earlier. I talk a lot about balance. Not balance as in work-life balance because that's a challenge in its own right. It's an episode unto itself. But The balance of leadership is really to know how to strike the— how long do we need to linger in the space of contemplating these ideas? And when do we just need to say, we're there, we've arrived, let's move on? And that's where a leader has to have the insight of, okay, I think we've arrived at a place that is— we're ready to move forward, as opposed to letting people linger in the space of questioning and kind of noodling around for so long that it becomes almost exhaustive.

Yeah. So, this idea of— I know that in our previous conversation, you mentioned generative. But you've also mentioned this idea of convergence. So, what is the difference between the two?

Yeah. Well, I love you mentioned this because One of the things as a coach I'm very keen on is this, is that it's about divergent minds coming together, but it's about convergence in the sense that you come together as one in terms of at the heart, that you start to see that we as a group of people who have different thinking, different ways of bringing our skill sets together, We can then come together and find a way to unite. And that's where the convergence comes into play. It's not easy for groups to do this, but when you trust each other and you have this ability to see each other's skills and strengths in their own light, and you allow each other to be heard, have that psychological safety, which is so important to teams, Then, what happens is you start to really respect each other even when you don't necessarily always agree. And that's convergence at the heart.

Yes, I love that. What a great way to be able to put in this idea. I've talked about constructive collisions and constructive conflicts. And so, this is exactly what you're talking about with this idea of convergence, taking different perceptions, different ideas, And giving them all weight and then converging them onto the overlying principles and the destination.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, at some point, you want people to see that the problem. And this is another thing that I think is so important when problem solving as a team is that the problem is not people. The problem is separate from people. So, you have to make sure that you separate any problems you're dealing with From any individual so that they don't feel like they're being attacked. It's not a personal attack, that you're coming together, that you've defined a problem that you want to solve together. And once you've done that, then you as individuals that come together as a team are able to look at it from the different angles that you're coming to the problem with. And that's uniting in its own sense.

Yes, sir. Yeah, yeah. And when you say the uniting part of it, the one aspect that is so important to the uniting is you're giving people a voice.

Yes, so important. So important, especially in the virtual world we've been in, making sure that you give people the space to put their opinion into the room.

Yes, and to that point, you mentioned earlier on that hybrid is one of the challenges. that we're going to have. And this is I think a key separation to a remote workforce or an in-person workforce is this idea hybrid of as an effective leader, how do you make sure you're giving voices to those who are attending virtually versus those who are in person as well?

Yeah, it's a great question. And so, there's a few things I often think about. You have to set the stage for this. You have to set the stage for an effective hybrid team. And that might mean that you want to create the agreement as to what do we want to expect from each other? How will we communicate? What are the tools that we're going to use to make sure that we're all on the same page? Do we have an understanding that important conversations will be had when we're live as opposed to by email? Or do we have a Slack channel that we'll be using for more of those kind of let's connect and have a quick chat. I mean, it's really important to be very clear and fostering that element of belonging so that every person, no matter where they are, whether they're in the room or virtually, that they feel as though they're being treated fairly and that they belong as part of that team. So, it's not just the tools. It's also the intention. that you take into that room in communicating with everyone about what do we agree to do as a team.

Yeah, I love the intentionality behind that because it means we have to stop and assess and stop and evaluate and stop and strategize in order to be able to pull that off effectively.

Absolutely, absolutely.

I'd like to get into some cautionaries about what we're talking about today because I know some people just jump on the bandwagon and want to change everything. But there are some things we should be cautious of, and we'll get to that right after this.

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I am so blown away by today's conversation and this idea of we're expecting leaders now to give more of their hearts, give more of their minds rather than just giving their time. and their attention. As we move forward through this, Tony, are there any cautionaries that we should be talking about today?

Yeah, there's 2 things that come to mind. And one of them that is borrowed from someone who I have learned so much from. And that's Stephen Covey, which is always think of the first habit. I think it's The First Habit. First seek to understand and then be understood. I think it's so important to give space for listening and listening with such intention that you're clearly understanding what people are saying and then questioning and repeating back to people saying, is this what you meant to say? Because we're in this space of virtual, things don't always come across the same way as they were intended. You can't read the body language. You can't get the full sense of what people are trying to come across. So I think really be intentional about your listening. So it's important. And then the other thing that came to mind was this element of like making sure that you are really connecting with what is the things that that are not being said that you want to make sure that you're confirming? Are people staying quiet? Are there things that you need to check in with them on that you want to make sure that you're confirming? Don't assume that because you said something that everyone understands it. The old saying of like, just because it's been said doesn't mean that it's been understood.

Yeah, yeah. How much does, if you look at my tagline, my tagline is, dare to lead with love and kindness first. How important do you think is compassion in the equation of leading high-performing teams?

I mean, this is exactly why I resonated with who you are because I really think compassion is such an important part of how we need to lead because For me, I like to think of it as compassionate accountability, the two sides of the coin that are so important right now. We got to hold people accountable to doing results. You don't want to be like, oh, okay, whatever you need, whatever you need. But you also want to be compassionate with people, but also with yourself. And so, in order to lead in this day and time, not just virtually, but wherever you are, you need to have that ability to say, We've got to be compassionate about who we are in the world right now. All the challenges people are facing. Know that emotions do have a place in the workplace. That it's not something that you take out. You can't separate people from their feelings. So, you have to make space for that. But at the same time, make sure that you challenge people to to live up to their best selves, which means keep on pushing people on their growth edge so they continue to become the best person that they can be in their workplace. I often think about this concept of employee engagement is no longer— not adequate enough. It's not what we should be striving for. It's employee enrichment. It means to me That when people come to work for you, that they should have this expectation and you should have an expectation that when someone comes to work with me, I'm going to leave them better than I found them. And yeah, so.

Yeah, so that resonates with every fiber of my being because it's the way that I've led when I've run hotels, casinos, restaurants. It's always let's Let's invest in their capacity. And I have a huge conflict with people when I talk about the need to train your staff. And people are like, oh, but if I train my staff, they might leave. And then, my argument is, well, you might not train your staff and they might stay. But I think that people are— I believe that people are on a journey with us. And we can either contribute to that journey We can let them move forward with a full tank of gas and the tires have been nicely rotated. And they're equipped to move forward in their lives because of the contribution that we made. It's no longer my contribution is the paycheck. And so, I love what you're talking about today, Tony. This is fantastic.

Yeah, I mean, I just wanted to take that one step further to say like, because I know that you don't want to say, oh, you're your company's like a family, because there are some nuances around that that are challenging. But if you can think of it like your people are like your children, they don't really belong to you. They just come to you, you help them to become better people, and then they move on. And I think ultimately, if you think of it that way, it's really powerful and really beautiful because it says that I want to ensure that whenever people think about me as a leader, as a person who helped to shepherd you through these periods of time, that you'll always think fondly of our time together. Maybe not always in the moments when I was challenging you to do things that you didn't want to do, but in hindsight, you'll always say, gosh, I'm so glad that person pushed me to do the things that I wasn't ready for, but they believed in me. And saw me for something that I wasn't really seeing in myself.

And isn't it funny because everybody that as grown-ups that we look back on weren't the people that were pushovers. They weren't the people we're not looking back with fondness at. You know, boy, I loved working with Steve. Boy, was I ever able to get away with murder with him. It was so great. It was the best time of my life. No, we always talk about the people who were our mentors. People who are our coaches, the people who pushed us to be better than we ever thought we could be. And because that turned us into who we are today. Yeah, yeah, it's brilliant. Tony, as we wrap up, do you have any last thoughts about what we're talking about today?

Yeah, one of the things that I'm very keen on sharing with people is that it's time for honest conversations in the world. And my tagline is inspiration through honest conversation. And the reason why I chose that It's because I really believe that the more that you get honest with yourself and have that conversation about, who do I want to be right now and how do I want to be? That's a very powerful starting point. And then when you resonate that from there to other people, what are the conversations that I'm not having that I really need to have that will serve, not please, I would even add one more word into your tag.

Courageous. Courageous conversations because sometimes, it's not easy to have those conversations. And sometimes, we have to be able to pull up our big boy panties to be able to hold tight to our principles and to our virtues and to our values in order to have those really, really tough conversations. Tony, this has been fantastic. Could you remind everybody one more time how they can get a hold Absolutely.

It's been— first of all, it's been a true pleasure. Thank you so much for having me on. The best place to find me is inspiredpurposecoach.com. And you can also find me at my podcast. It's on all the podcasting channels, Virtual Campfire. And I also have it on my website as well.

Great.

What is the theme of your Virtual Campfire podcast?

Well, it's about really sharing stories of transformation. I bring people on who have really— they're doing great things in the world. But they didn't just arrive there. There's an element of what was the journey that brought them there. Oftentimes, it comes through these moments we call flashpoints. These points in our journey that have ignited our gifts into the world.

Love it!

Tony, thank you again. I really appreciate you being here to share your knowledge, passion, and of course, your expertise. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Thank you, Marc.

If you have any questions about today's episode or would like a complimentary 30-minute brainstorming session with you and your team, go ahead and book yourself on my online calendar. The link is down below. It's the one that's marked meetme.so/MarcHaine. As always, I am at your service. And if you haven't done so yet, why don't you go ahead and subscribe to this feed. Follow me on social media. Let's get the conversation started. And remember to use the hashtag #ExperienceLeadership. My name is Marc Haine. I hope you stay safe, stay healthy, and dare to be the exception.