Your Remote Workers May Be Keeping This a Secret

At the start of the pandemic, some workers had to work from home. I think it's been both a blessing and a curse. But it's becoming really clear that it's starting to take its toll. And you as a business operator could be on the hook to lose so much. So today, we are going to cover and discuss 3 main drivers of employee satisfaction. We're going We're going to talk about 4 new rules that you need to know to be an effective leader, an effective remote leader, and 3 strategies you can use to foster engagement and employee retention. And that's coming up next on Marc Haine Live. Welcome back to Marc Haine Live. This is where small business owners and entrepreneurs pick up core skill sets to help them work on their business, not just in their business. I am your host, Service Expert and Master of Experiences Marc Haine. And today, my special guest is Remote Cultural Strategist Sarah Emhoff. And we'll get to her in just a moment. I have to ask you, do you find these videos worthwhile? If you do, why don't you go ahead and give me a thumbs up and subscribe to this channel? How do you subscribe, you might ask? Well, it's easy.

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That way, you'll get notified whenever I bring you some fresh new content each and every week. Before the pandemic, many businesses shied away from letting their employees work from home. In past episodes, we talked about the importance of trust. And I know that there have been business operators out there who would say things like, how will I know what they're doing? How do I make sure I get my money's worth? How will I know for sure they're not eating their co-workers' lunch out of their fridge? So many questions, which brings me to our Question of the Day. So, what have you done to help your employees adjust? to working from home, or working part-time from home, or working in this pandemic world? I'd love to see your comments. Why don't you go ahead and put them in the comment box below? I would love to get the conversation started. As I mentioned, my guest today is People DJ and Remote Culture Coach Sarah Emhoff.

Hi Marc!

For over 15 years, Sarah has been building cultures of trust, Purpose and belonging. And if that's not cut from my same cloth, I don't know what is. Her goal is to increase student outcomes, employee engagement, sales, and social change. I have to tell you, Sarah used to be herself a remote worker. But there are factors that led her to leave her organizations or sorry, leave her organization, an organization that she really cared for and really loved to be in. So, she has been on both sides of the remote workforce idea. Sarah, welcome to the show. It's so great to have you.

Thanks, Marc. It is great to be here.

Yeah, so maybe you could start off by telling us a little bit about what you do for your clients.

Yeah, I'd be happy to do that. So yeah, I've affectionately been coined a People DJ by some of my clients because I Yeah. I have this ability, and I've done it throughout my career, of creating a group of people and turning them into friends and community as quickly as possible. And I thought that everybody had that skill, but I guess you realize what your sort of your zone of genius is. So really what I do for companies and for schools is to create the social environment that fertilizes the soil for higher engagement and better student outcomes. So, I come in and build that community and that environment where people are able to really stretch and do their best. And there's a lot of research behind that. I'm sure we'll get into it later. But that's what I do. I come in, people DJ, fertilize the soil, and get better outcomes.

Nice. And I'm guessing that a lot of the skills that you use in education is also transferable to the workplace.

Absolutely. I say to some companies, like, your next hire should be an educator because teachers have been asked to do this for decades and create the environment and differentiate their learning. So yeah, it definitely crosses over from the education world into corporate.

Nice, nice. And I love the fact that you're using People DJ as a moniker. I think that's really great as long as people don't walk away working with you and going, wow, she like scratched me over and over again.

Not yet.

Not yet. I haven't got that angry yet. Cha-cha-cha-cha-cha.

Right.

I'm sure if you look at the kids that started using that as some sort of a look, it's like if they misbehave and you go, cha-cha-cha-cha-cha, and they go, okay, okay, fine. But this is a really timely conversation because I am seeing a lot of reports now. We're seeing this really disturbing trend right now. In a recent article in HR Executive, they said that 1 in 4 employees in the U.S. plan to quit their jobs post-pandemic. The brunt according to the recent newspaper article has been— is really the female workers. They're like 4 to 1 female workers who are planning to quit post-pandemic, particularly the working moms. Have you seen this as a trend in your workspace?

Yeah, I think that, and not to gender stereotype here because I like everyone to be their thing. But women are more wired for relationship and for social connections. So, in some ways, the remote workforce can be not only more challenging because we're trying to balance home and kids and all of that. But also, A lot of our motivation comes from the personal interactions that we have and the connections with people. And when the remote world takes that out or diminishes it, our motivation tends to go down. And again, gender stereotype here, but one that sort of the way we've been wired for many years has been. So I can see, I see that women struggling in the remote workforce and having finally standing up and saying, I can't do it all.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Well, what was interesting about the article that I read, it said that males have assumed more household duties but at a much smaller percentage than women have. Like, women literally went from like a 60% to like an 80-something percent of the workload in the household, including being the teacher, right? And so, this article was citing this idea of burnout. division of household labor. In fact, a UN report says that women gains in the workplace could easily be erased. Like all the gains that we've made in the last 30 years because of this post-pandemic, this idea that people are going to be leaving their jobs. They're saying that they could set the whole women in the workplace evolution back. Any thoughts about that?

Yeah, I think that's a really powerful prediction to look at and see. And on the other side of it, I think some of the women that I work with, I have some clients that I work with who are working remotely, who are trying to balance this all. And I'm finding they're, they're burning out. They're working with me because they're burned out. And it's because they feel like because they're taking time away from the day to homeschool their kids, they need to make up for that at night, at 9 o'clock, 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock. And so they're trying to prove their value. from afar in a way. And that's part of remote work too. You're not close to the center of power. So you feel like you have to work harder to prove like, I'm doing my work, I'm doing my work, I'm valuable. So that together leads to burnout. And for women, I think in that trend, some women are leaving to say, I'm going to go start my own company. I'm going to go do this on my own because I do have flexibility and I have more control over my time. in a way that the current working remotely for a company, sometimes your boundaries get broader and you're like, I don't have time at all because I'm, I can work at any time of day. And that is burning me out. And I feel like I have to be in there. So I think this is a great conversation and something that companies really need to be thinking about. And talent development right now, I think, is a really important conversation to be having with your remote workers that, you know, is, are those, are those women leaving for good justified reasons? You know, and you're losing all that intellectual knowledge, you're losing all of that institutional knowledge, or you're losing that. Could a conversation about how this could work better for her save everybody a lot of money and a lot of time and relationship?

Exactly.

Yeah. So I think that that's what would be my thought is that companies are starting to have those conversations with women. And now's the time to break all of the, The norms. The 9 to 5, Monday through Friday. I'm sorry folks. That is out the door. That is out the door.

It's actually been out the door for a while. But because before the pandemic, I would work with municipal governments and that sort of thing. And there was this whole idea that if people weren't at their desks, they weren't working. And it's like, why is it if the person's not at the desk, you assume they're not working? Well, that's where their post And it's like, this is strange because people are out for meetings. And I remember in one particular dysfunctional environment where the sales rep was at a breakfast meeting and he sauntered in at quarter to 10. And people were all looking at their watch going, oh my God, I can't believe he's late. And nobody's saying anything. It's like he was at a breakfast meeting all morning long, right? But I think remote workers now have, like you said, you hinted to a lot of issues when it comes to remote workers. This idea that first of all, I want to prove that you can trust me. But I have a sneaking suspicion now that people— I may even remember the very first Zoom calls where kids were coming in and running into the meetings. And the parents got all stressed out because the kids were there until the organization turned around and says, you know what? We understand you're at home. It's okay.

Right.

But everybody had to put on this prim and proper kind of display on Zoom to be the ultimate professional. And the minute the kids walked in, you could see the stress go up. Over the year now that we've been doing this, or almost a year now that we've been doing this, are there situations where workers might be in situations that they're afraid to admit to their managers?

Yes.

Easy answer.

Yeah, yes. And I think that some of those were there before the pandemic. I actually had, I had wrote a blog before, before the pandemic started called Confessions of a Remote Worker. And I wound up publishing it, like the pandemic hit and I was like, oh, now we really need to hear this. And, you know, I wrote all of the things that I, my confessions that it's hard to say to your boss when you're working. But I thought, oh, this, I can be the voice. I can be the liaison to some of these managers to say things that your employees might be afraid to admit to you. But I'll tell you, 'cause I'm not your employee. And it was like, I'm addicted to work, like in a bad way. Like I have a work addiction. I have really poor boundaries around work. And I'm working all around the house. It's not working well. I'm not very productive, to be honest. I'm bored. I sit at my computer overanalyzing emails for hours because I'm not bouncing off anybody. I'm wasting your time and I'm wasting my time. Can't necessarily tell your boss that. And my mental health was not good, not good. Chronic anxiety, on medications. I moved like 3 times to try to— maybe this will change. Maybe if I move into a new environment. Like, I hated every home I lived in because it was my workspace and I couldn't get away. And my manager was, was a good ear. She would listen. In the, in the higher-up leadership, and this is before the pandemic, there was a bit of a working remotely is a privilege, so don't complain. So I didn't feel like I had a safe space to say, uh, this is bad. And I was in sales and I was hitting my numbers, so they also kind of were like, just left me alone and forgot about me. And I was over here like, please, you know, I want to do more. I want to get noticed. And nothing kills your soul more than just being forgotten about when you're working really hard. So I think that those are the things that, you know, employees might be afraid to say, you know, to their managers. Like, listen, I'm bored and I'm actually not very productive. I spent my entire morning kind of sitting on the computer, but like going to do laundry or thinking about things. Like, we're wasting everyone's time.

Yeah.

And I'm bored, or I'm depressed. Like, I'm depressed. I'm not getting things done. Um, so those are, you know, just the basics. And I just saw something on LinkedIn recently, one of the trends, and this, you know, is real, but it's scary, is like drinking on the job. A whole nother piece of things too.

Yeah.

Right? Um, and so I think there are a number of things that, as a manager, this is where you create that safe space. And that's what I come in to do is create spaces where people can be vulnerable and say, things aren't working for me. I'm not, I'm not doing the best I can. And how, how can we fix that?

Yeah.

As opposed to, I couldn't possibly tell my boss that I basically wasted all of yesterday sitting on the computer pretending to work.

Yeah, and I think those, I know that when the pandemic hit, the propensity for people or organizations to rely on tech to track screen time and to track applications that are running and that sort of thing really forced that to happen as well. Because it's like, oh my goodness! Big Brother's watching. So, I better do something because they're expecting me from 9 to 5 to be on this computer doing this. And what was funny about that was I talked to one person who when she became a remote worker, she says, I get my job done like in 3 hours. Like the actual physical tasks of what I have to do in a day. I could get up at 6 o'clock in the morning. I'm done by 9 before the phones start ringing, before anything happens. And then, and she says, and I feel guilty because now I'm showing up to meetings because they say we have to show up to meetings. But my work is done, right? And so, being a leader to have the ability to have those open and honest conversations with people is a necessity. But at the same token, I can also see it from the perspective of being the worker. It's like, am I going to admit this? Is this something I'm going to tell my boss when he says, hey, do you find you're challenged enough?

Yeah, I think that I would say the fewer hours a day to do your work is a reality. And having that conversation and it not meaning, oh well, maybe we only need you part-time. But saying like, I will be more effective and I will be more productive. And that's what actually I've been working with a couple clients on, figuring out what time of day is their most productive time of day. And also blocking out times for breaks. And they're getting more productivity done by doing that. And yeah, without all the chit-chat and being at work and being distracted, you can actually get your job done more quickly.

Yeah, yeah. And it's funny that you mentioned the thing about time of day when people are most effective time of day. We did have another episode. It was about 3 or 4 episodes back. We talked about fatigue in the workplace. And we talked about how we have these morning people and these night owls. And some people can shift up their— if they're given the flexibility to shift up their schedules, they would be a heck of a lot more productive in shorter spans of time to get actually more work done if we were able to cater and understand where that is for them.

Oh yeah, definitely. And you've got East Coast, West Coast. Like I work with a couple clients on the West Coast and their headquarters are on the East Coast. They're up and on. They're on meetings at 7 AM and they need a break. And because sometimes then, they're working until 6 PM, which is 9 PM East Coast time. So, having those conversations about what's realistic with time zones too.

Sure, yeah, yeah. No, it's interesting because everything that we're talking about now is figuring out different ways that that we can make sure that our remote workers are supported. But there's some level of employee satisfaction. How do you see that the remote work culture is making employee satisfaction outside of what we just talked about? How is it making it more difficult for employees to be satisfied with their actual work arrangement?

Yeah, well, the 3 things that I work on with companies and focus on the indicators are trust, purpose, and belonging. Those are the things that fertilize the soil. Do I feel like, do I trust this organization? Do they trust me? Do I have purpose? Am I valuable here? And do I belong? And in the remote workforce, it's a little harder to infuse those things when you're working separately. So that, I think, is the big challenge is how do you help people continue to create and nurture a sense of belonging And helping people to feel valued. In the last week, 25% of workers say that they were acknowledged for any good work. So there's less high fives.

Yep.

High fives. So if that goes down, I mean, you think about, think about a marriage. If you're in a marriage and you don't trust your partner, and you don't feel like you're valued, and, you know, you walk into your house and you feel like you don't belong, how likely are you to really show up fully in that marriage?

Right.

And so I think that that's where it's really impacting. And also, employees, there needs to be a conversation about employees having space and time to go invest in other places outside of work that give them that sense of belonging as well. So Maybe taking a 12 to 1 lunch break is norm because they go play tennis with a group of people that they really enjoy and connect with so that then they're refreshed and they can come back to work. But a lot of companies right now are not at a space that say, oh yeah, Joe, great, go play tennis for a couple hours. You know, and then you get the little rumblings through the— do you know what Joe did? Did you hear he left? Can you believe that? When Maybe that's exactly what is the right thing to do.

Yeah, but they've been talking about this for years. They've been talking in regards to fatigue in the workplace about somebody taking a quick little power nap or getting people outdoors to go for a quick little walk to do something that's just going to revitalize their soul and their mind by pulling them off really difficult thought processes. We're hearing now, in fact, the fatigue specialist I talked to said, Now, people are more tired watching a Zoom screen because you have to be present all the time. If you're sitting in a meeting with your boss that your boss is holding, you can't be doing this. You can't be looking. You have to be looking at the screen. You have to be present and paying attention. And so, this whole thing about that we are just inundated with this mental focus endlessly throughout the course of the day is really causing hardship there as well. Yeah.

Yeah, I agree. And even I read recently that with Zoom, what you were talking about is there's also a lot of intense eye contact because we're, we're actually connecting with each other. Our faces are closer to each other than we would be if we're sitting across the table from each other at work. And intense eye contact, you know, it's like being on a date for hours a day, right? And, and being watched by everybody else in the room. And, uh, That's real. But we're all new to this. We're Zoom babies. All of humanity right now. And some things are working and some things we've got to figure out.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But it's absolutely true. I haven't experienced that because I find most people are like this, looking at their monitors or looking down, looking at their monitors. And they talk like this as well because they're looking at their screen, not looking at the camera, right? It's like, I'm up here. I'm up here.

Well, and ironically, I think back to when I was in sales, and this was before Zoom, you know, was the norm. I would take most of my sales calls, right? Someone would come in and I would talk with them. And I had a habit of, I would walk around my house while I talked to them. 90% of the time, I would walk around the house because I'm kinesthetic and I like to move my body and I'd use my hands even though they couldn't see it.

Mm-hmm.

And I just had a more relaxed conversation with people when I was walking around the house. And so now, I actually will schedule some of my connections as calls. And then, people say, wait, there's no Zoom link. I'm like, there's not supposed to be a Zoom link. We're gonna just talk on the phone and I'm gonna listen to you. And I might go for a walk or I might even just walk around my house. And I'll probably listen to you more intently.

Yes. Well, and here's the thing as well. Anybody who listens to a podcast, so anybody listening to this on the podcast will get a different experience than watching it. Which is really interesting because when we're listening, we're only using that one sensory input. And so, we're focused much more. And I'm like you. I pace. I'm a pacer on the telephone. And so, that's a really good thing. And it's interesting that people get really shocked about phone. You want to do it on a phone? Yeah. Do I have one?

Yeah.

There you go. It's more than just a camera. I know that you have the 4 rules of remote leadership and I'd love to get into that. But before we do, I just— well, we'll get to that. But we'll get to that right after this.

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Well, welcome back everybody. We are talking with People DJ Sarah Emhoff. I have to ask, So, you're— I lost my train of thought. Isn't that terrible? So, we've been talking about challenges that the remote workforces are experiencing. What are the consequences do you think to organizations as you've seen it now?

Yeah, that's a great question. Really, it's costing them money, bottom line. So, for every disengaged worker, Like a Gallup poll shows that you lose $3,400 for every $10,000 in salary that they make. So you do the math. If you have a disengaged $100,000 salary worker, it's $34,000 lost. Turnover costs are, you know, 1/2 to 2 times a salary to replace an employee. So all of those women you mentioned earlier who are looking at leaving the workforce, like, Those are going to be costs to replace and to train and to get new people in there. So those are the numbers. However, companies that are about the triple bottom line and really, they believe in revenue and what they're doing for the environment and what they're doing for their people, that's where you as a business owner or you as a CEO feel really proud about the culture that you're creating. And CEOs know, like they go to bed at night knowing whether or not their employees really like working there and things are going. And they know if they don't. They know when there's a problem. I mean, I've talked to some of them and it's humbling to say, this is bad. This is bad. Culture is bad. So, I think it's also just the pride of the business owner. And You and I, and I'm sure a lot of your listeners have all had the experience of talking to an unengaged customer service representative. And it leaves a really bad taste in our mouths when we know that that person doesn't really care about what they're doing for us. They clearly don't feel cared about by the company and they're just showing up. And so that's another way that it affects is when your employees are not excited about the company that you work for, they believe in it. That's a problem. So, all of those are big costs. And to be honest, I think for most people, like just going to bed at night and feeling proud of what you've created and feeling like people trust you and the organization you've built, that's worth a lot of money and a lot, a lot. So, those are— there's bottom line dollar costs. But there's also peace of mind and integrity costs.

Yeah, yeah. And those peace of mind, and I like the fact that you said, you mentioned this idea that They have to— the leaders have to be kind of self-evaluative. They need to have the humility to realize that they're in control of this thing called culture. And the people who turn around and say, oh, you know what? I don't know what's with my staff. Why they can't take initiative. Or I don't know why they can't get their job done on time. Or I don't know why they— And every time you ask that question, we have to be saying, well, what are you doing to create that environment where they can't get the work done, or they don't show initiative, and so on. And I can imagine that now, this idea I mentioned at the beginning, this idea like pre-pandemic, it was all about trust. The reason why people weren't allowed to work from home. It's like, we have this office. No, you come into work. We know you're here. It's all about trust. But now, managers have to change the way they lead when it comes to remote workforces. Do you want to talk a little bit to that?

Yeah, I think that goes a little bit into some of the secrets or the new rules of leadership. But—

The 4 new rules of leadership?

Yeah, the 4 new rules. And if I can seep one of them out, I mean, it's really about number one is like drop your control issues if you're a leader. And every one of us has control issues. Like nobody's walking around feeling like, I don't care about anything that happens. But if you are a remote leader, if you have not already, take some time to work with a coach, you know, or take a course. Examine your relationship with control. And I guarantee it's not even going to just help the way you work with your coworkers. It's going to help all your relationships in your life. And nothing will kill workers, remote workers, more right now than micromanagement. And if that's your, you know, if that's your style and you feel like you've always got to have your pulse on it, good luck. You're going to have a lot of turnover. So really starting with yourself and working on your control relationship, what it is and how you can improve that. And learning how to be a coach. I think remote leaders and managers now, they're being asked to be a lot more than just a manager. Like they need to be a true leader. And they, They're going to listen to the emotional concerns of their employees, and sometimes they just need to be an ear to listen for people. And not all managers have that. A lot of managers, their EQ is not exactly why they got into the position that they're in. So I think also really looking at how you can learn to be a coach and empower your employees to manage themselves and, and trust them to say, OK, your best time of day to work is, we've identified, between 10 and 12. How can I support you in making sure that that time is held sacred, that you get done what you need to? Am I helping you to hold boundaries around your time so that you're not working every night until 11? And actually, someone said a quote that I really loved, and it was, sometimes the same characteristics that make your top employees your top employees are the same characteristics that make them your most burnt-out employees. So not neglecting those hard workers that are checking all the boxes and doing everything, because they may also be just burning themselves out. So you as a leader being able to really give them permission and coach them to say, you know, back off, stop working. Like, I don't want you working after 6 o'clock any night this week. So really being more of a coach and working on your control.

Yeah, it's so interesting because I do know that there are managers out there who probably may be watching this thinking, but this is a people problem. Isn't that the role for human resources?

Yeah, you think. But I come from an education background, right? That's where I started. And there's these people in schools called guidance counselors. And, and guidance counselors came into school because they thought they were going to help students with their student success and get into college. And you know what guidance counselors are doing for the most part now? They're doing a lot of testing and they're doing a lot of paper pushing. And I feel like in corporate, HR has had the same issue, you know, where they came in because they wanted to work on the people stuff. But really what they're doing is they're implementing, you know, sexual harassment policy, you know, Diversity and inclusion initiatives, onboarding, and policy. And so, a lot of the people stuff is being forgotten about. And I'll call any remote leader out. Like, if you really think that that's human resources' job, you might want to relook your leadership role.

Yeah, yeah. Take a look at your culture because I bet you any money, you're one of the ones that are suffering the high turnover. And you're the one that is out of touch on what's going on on the front lines. I mean, I'm always blown away when I watch episodes of like Undercover Boss, right? Where the boss comes in and it's like, I never realized this was going on in my business. And it's like, well, when was the last time you talked to one of your employees, right?

Yeah.

It's this whole idea of management by walking around now is this idea of— and I love what you mentioned about this idea about being a coach and mentor to your employees. Because likewise, I wrote an article. I wrote a blog post on this thing about the annual evaluation, the dreaded annual evaluation. And why are we waiting 365 days to tell people what they're doing well, to reward them for stuff, and to point out areas that you can help them develop and that sort of thing? Why aren't we doing this more often? And now that we're in this remote workforce, this is the perfect opportunity. to take a look at some of those processes and say, I'm here for you now because I have this attention with you right now.

Yeah, yeah. And you're right. Now is a great time. It's a lot of time of uncertainty. And employees need that affirmation too of like, is this relationship going to continue? Right? Like, is this relationship going to continue? So, should I continue to invest? Or are the signs that I should maybe go look and see if there's someone else on the block? And that's where you've got to re-up and say, are we in this together? And what are our plans for the future? And employees that feel like they have a future and that they're cared about, they're going to show up and they're going to invest in the relationship.

But just the statistic alone saying that 1 in 4 employees are thinking about jumping ship after the pandemic is over. I mean, that's scary. That's telling me the true success of anything is during crisis, right?

Yeah.

When things are all wonderful and great and the budgets are high and that is not a true test. But the fact that we're in this crisis of the pandemic now, we have really just shaken the salt into whatever wounds existed. And so now, if As business operators, if they're not talking to their staff now, what is their reality going to be like as soon as we are allowed to get back together and start occupying office spaces and so on? What's that reality going to look like?

Yeah.

I also know that there are some managers who might be looking at this, especially some of my clients are smaller owner-operator style businesses. And they'd be watching this thing going, That's all good for the big companies. The big companies, they have all the resources. They have all the money. They can do this. They can put initiatives together. But I'm just a little Joe. What are your thoughts to that?

Yeah, well, I think what's neat about smaller companies is that like, the owners and the people in it have a lot more control over the culture. They can touch it. They can feel it. They can drive it. And where in the big companies, culture can be within just the IT department because the IT department is 100 people. So, I see that as an advantage is that you can— smaller companies can really drive their culture. And there are some easy solutions. And you think about people going back to work and whatnot. But, you know, some of the things I offer, like I have a culture assessment that I offer companies where we basically do the blood work on your company. And the good news is it'll be like, oh, your cholesterol is great. But your blood pressure is kind of high; we got to work on that and really identify where the, where the most impact will come from solutions that are targeted in certain areas. And in small companies, you can empower people within the organization to take on your culture. And I think that's another big shift for HR and leaders to remember that the people within your organization, there are natural culture ambassadors. So how do you empower them to take on that role and be the people? Who infuse the culture, because, you know, that's just pure psychology, that peer-to-peer influence is more impactful than top-down. So if you have people that you agree with or that you trust that are on your level, and they say, hey, like, I'm working on this project, it's going to take a little, I could use your help, people say yes a lot more quickly than it coming from a directive top-down.

Right.

So, engaging the people within your organization to be your culture ambassadors.

Yeah, yeah. And this is so amazing. This is so fascinating because I know that this will lead us nicely into the strategies that can really help build trust and foster engagement. But before we do that, could you let everybody know how they can get in touch with you? Because I think that you would be a heck of a resource for many, many different operations.

Oh, well, thank you. Well, the best place to really get in touch with me and learn more is at my website. And that's at sarahemhoff.com. And I think you can see how it's spelled. But it's S-A-R-A-E-M-H-O-F.com. And I've got some free resources too on there. And we can talk about doing a culture assessment. But yeah, that's the best place to find out more.

Terrific! And I do have the links in the show notes. So, go ahead and click it because she does have some resources for you as well if you go to the website. And I hope this is making sense and is of value to you. Please go ahead and give me a thumbs up. Share comments in the comment box. Or even better yet, if you think this is valuable and you know somebody who could use this information, why don't you go ahead and share this with them so that you can help them get better as well. I can bet that some of the audiences can feel really overwhelmed by what we're talking about. I mean, this is a really focused discussion but it's still a pretty big issue. And I'm sure that they could use your concrete strategies. And we will get to that right after this.

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So, welcome back. So Sarah, from your experience, how hard has it been for leaders to really adjust to this new reality? Have you seen that there's been a lot of pushback from leaders?

No, I would say pushback is more like, how do we quantify this and how do we fund it? Because the last year has been a huge roller coaster for companies. And just a year ago, or a little bit you know, a little under a year ago, they were looking at layoffs, and we had no idea what was happening in the world. So, a lot of people were head above water, a lot. And some people still are. And so, I think there's a humility I've found with leaders where they're just like, I don't know what to do. You know, how can I make this easier? And how do I convince my company to invest in things like culture when we're laying people off? And so, So I think that they are interested, and everyone's on a different curve of the remote workforce. I mean, there are remote workers out there who are like, I love it. I love everything about it. It's working great. And let's see how they are in a year if that continues. They might still be doing great, or they may be like, oh, that was great, but I've hit my wall. Others never liked it and always struggled with it. So I think that it's all kind of going on a different, different curve, but they're pretty overwhelmed and I find hungry for resources. And I think I would encourage companies to say, like, bring in resources that can help you, like, make the investment because you're just trying to— you're yourself transitioning to remote leadership and trying to keep everything up and going. So is there someone that can come in and help just infuse that culture and bring in that expertise and help you. It's kind of like that, you know, you think of the overwhelmed mom who brings in a nanny or someone to say, can you just help me? Like, help this ship rise a little better. I need the help so I can focus on what I'm really good at. Yeah.

Well, you know, and it's interesting because the whole woman in the workplace, my background being hospitality, one of the biggest challenges I've always had to endure was how do I help my servers who were predominantly single mothers, who are career waitresses, single mothers. How do I help them with work-life balance, especially when the brunt of their income would come from 5 o'clock on? And how do we help them succeed with this? And I think the pandemic now has just put a real magnifying glass on how inequitable the system has been towards the fact that we have people in the workforce who are responsible for raising children.

Yeah.

Right? And this is huge. So, what are some of the strategies you feel that leaders can use now to build higher engagement with their teams? Because now, it goes beyond actual conversations. We need to have some strategies in place.

Yeah, yeah. Well, and I just— one that comes up specifically with those moms. I think one strategy that most leaders can do to really help women Is give us permission to say no. Really, and this this could be a whole topic for another day, but give women permission to say no. I I've I'm up to here. I'm taking care of the kids. I cannot take on that project. I need this to come off my plate, and I think for a lot of times we women we are the pleasers, and we are trying to prove our value and. And we, we feel like we have to work a little bit harder to get noticed. And so, and we have control issues. We totally have control issues. So we feel like if we don't do it, it's not going to get done right. And so as a leader, whether you're male or female, really helping your employees set boundaries and honor their boundaries. So if they say, you know, one of the things I've worked with clients and just say, Are you? If you're complaining, if you hear yourself complaining, or you hear someone that you lead complain, there is an unmet need there. So in the midst of all that ugly complaining, there's an unmet need. So how do you ask? You know, listen to the complaining and go, "Oh, I hear complaining. I don't need to listen to all of the details of it." But I'm going to ask them, "What is it that you need?" I hear you're frustrated. I hear you're overwhelmed. Great. What is it that you need that will make you feel less overwhelmed? And then let's focus on that solution. So there's one little strategy of, you know, well, helping them hold boundaries. But if they don't know how to do that too, when you hear them overwhelmed or frustrated, help them and empower them to ask you for what they need to, to make a change, right? So that's, that's one concrete strategy. Also, I think, is doing, really helping your employees to manage themselves and understand their Workflow. So one of the things that I work with my remote leaders on is time blocking. And some have tried it and they're like, I can't do that. I tried to do email in the morning and it always runs over. And I say, drop the, drop the, I'm gonna do email at this time and I'm gonna have meetings at this time. For one week, just start giving yourself 20-minute blocks. Just 20-minute blocks. Set your timer on your phone and say, okay, I'm gonna do email. And then notice when the timer goes off and just check and then decide. Ask yourself, Am I going to continue doing email or am I going to move on to another, another topic? So there is another strategy that just for yourself as a leader and even for your employees, build self-awareness of how much time you're spending on things. And then you can have that discussion with your employees or with your manager to say, you know, I realized when I took that 20-minute walk at noon, I actually got a lot more done in the afternoon than I did previously. Or I realized I was wasting my morning on email until 11:30. when I could have stopped at 10 and moved on. So, I could go on and on. But those are just a couple of small strategies with increasing self-awareness through giving them the time blocking idea. And also, just really giving permission to say no and set boundaries and encourage them, coach them through that and say, great! Thank you for telling me that you can't take this on. We got to figure out another solution.

Yeah. And it's like anything. You mentioned the whole analogy with medicine about when you sit in front of a doctor. He needs a checklist, certain things to find out. And I think this is the role of the leader now is to go in and ask these pointed questions. Ask very consistent questions. Even if it is the emails, it's like, what kind of emails are you responding to? What's holding you back? What are the ones that you feel are fair? And which are the ones that you feel are not fair? Which are the ones that are time-sucking, stress-sucking you to the point where you cannot perform your duties because you're the wrong person to be responding to these emails, right? And yeah, but again, it's taking that time and having those deep dive conversations. How important now is this idea of diversity, equity, and inclusion programs with remote workers?

Hmm.

I know this is a big one, right?

Yes. You know, it's tricky. And I'm not going to say that I'm a diversity and inclusion, you know, expert.

Yeah.

However, I worked in civic education for a bunch of my career and was all about creating these experiences where everyone's political opinion was valid and everyone's experience. So that's really informed who I am. I'm a little, I'm a little conflicted right now because I think that it's very ironic that we're putting so much of this time and energy into this right now. It needs to happen, hands down.

Yes.

Absolutely needs to happen. I worry about doing it via technology and, you know, through Zoom and we're working remotely. So we've already just siloed ourselves more than we've been siloed in all of our lifespans. And we're talking about bridging divides. We're talking about understanding each other better. But we're all in our homes, more separated than we've ever been. So there's kind of a, I think, a paper thinness to some of the diversity inclusion. And at the same time, some, some of this allows it to be a little more anonymous, right? We're separated by Zoom. So maybe I can share how I feel. a little more openly than I maybe would in person. So I think it's very important. And maybe even beyond diversity, equity, inclusion, like, the income gap is tremendous. And, you know, I was just reading another article yesterday that was alarming at how much more the income gap just stretched in since the pandemic.

And it's going to get worse from what I hear.

Yeah, that is what really concerns me of how we are as a society thinking about, you know, companies that laid off a bunch of workers but then had record profits. And who is it really hurting? And how are the choices that we're making on a daily basis impacting those that are just trying to get by each day, each month? So— I know that's not a direct answer. And again, I'm not an expert in this area. I just think it's kind of ironic and interesting that we're really jumping into this stuff at a time where we're actually more separated from each other than we've been in all of our lifetimes.

Yes. Yeah, and it's interesting you mentioned the technological thing because the one thing that has happened during the pandemic is all these technological machines and processes that are there to help build this inclusion and to be able to analyze equity and diversity in your workplace. But it's all done through technology, not doing it. It's not humans doing it. It's not human talking to human, which I think is a direction that's a little bit tenuous.

Yeah, absolutely. And it's a technology gap too.

Sure.

Some people do not have access to as strong of technology. And then, they've got their kids. There's kids that have not been able to do school because their internet connections are low.

Right. Well, I would hate to have the annual, the dreaded annual evaluation be, so Sarah, you're a good employee but your internet really sucks.

Yeah, right.

Is it going to go that far? I don't know. Are there any components of what we've been talking about today that you think managers need to include that we haven't talked about?

I think we talked about most of them. Oh, one component we haven't really talked about is creativity. And I think that what I observe, and when you look at the pivoting, there's so much creativity going on with companies and new companies finding new solutions in the new world. And if you're a remote leader or a business owner, I hope that you have a creativity workout, you know, and you're investing in how you're, I say it, stretching your brain. And that, 'cause you're gonna thrive and you will survive in this time of change and uncertainty and new norms. And I think as a leader, there's something about creativity that also makes you resilient and flexible. Like, you know, you're in theater, you know, like improv and being able to handle anything that comes at you and absorb it. So I think that that's a piece. And I talk a lot about play, incorporating play into the workplace, incorporating play into your daily routine, and giving yourself permission to play and play with your coworkers. Like, it seems like something that might have been weird in the office. But guess what? We're not in the office anymore. So, and I do a lot of brain neuroscience stuff, and it really, it's literally strengthening The parts of our brain, you know, and like a prefrontal cortex that is in charge of strategic thinking, long-term planning, trust, and intuition. And this entire last year has just been full of fear.

Yeah.

And so, a lot of us are operating from a fear mode. And if you're not incorporating creativity and play, you are doing short-term planning all the time. You're just trying to get through the next day and you're missing out on the long game. So, I'd say yeah, creativity. And make a creativity plan. And even if it seems silly to you, I challenge you. Try it for 7 days and just see.

It's so interesting that you said that because we have had Chris Nielsen on the show who is an improv expert. And he brings improv into workplaces. I was just talking with a friend of mine A colleague of mine, John Smith, who was talking about how he brings in game shows into his meetings. And so, they will, or throughout the course of the day, they will do certain things like do Family Feud. And so, he uses software and they do the top 100 people said. And they would play this game where they get points throughout the course of the day. And they had to stop throughout the course of the day and they had to find time to answer these questions. And then, they would rank themselves. And at the end of the day, somebody would get more points than somebody else. And it actually created this whole big thing that people look forward to their day now because it's like, what's the question going to be today?

Yeah, right. Again, it goes back to education. Like when I was a teacher, when I was teaching middle school, trying to get a bunch of middle schoolers to care about westward expansion in their history class. You know, I had to engage them and make them, you know, put themselves in the shoes and figure out why this mattered. And I love that. And that's actually a lot of what I've been doing with companies is I do huddles. And, you know, these huddles are very interactive. And I'm sending people out into breakout rooms and saying, you know, go create a restaurant. You have 8 minutes, you know, and you've got a budget of a zillion dollars. Like, go create a restaurant together. And, you know, they come back and they've got all these pieces and they're doing commercials for their restaurant. And— That's so cool. Like, great! Like, let's do that. And then, let's play. So, you got to infuse it in.

Well, there's plenty of proof that says when you do those spin-off exercises, all of a sudden, it's affecting how you're making decisions on the job as well.

Oh yeah!

And how many business retreats have used escape rooms to put small teams together to solve problems. That has nothing to do with work. And I mean, to the point where it's almost become cliché now. But yeah, no. And the one thing that I think as adults, there are 2 things that we fail to acknowledge. One is we fail to acknowledge that our feelings get hurt. We get mad about stuff but we don't turn around like we used to as kids. You hurt my feelings. So, we don't acknowledge that. And the other thing is we don't acknowledge how much we like play because adults love to play just like kids do.

We love to play. Yeah. Well, and the cool thing is it's measurable too. Like I say, going beyond team building, I have with our huddles, I've been measuring pre and post where people are at. And we're bringing stress levels down to 0% and increasing excitement. So, this is when done well, this is Really a huge value that you can offer your employees.

Yeah. And how much more fun is it when people are laughing, right? As opposed to pulling out their hair and getting all stressed out by stuff. We've talked a lot about a lot of different things today. Are there any cautionaries about what we're talking about today? I'm always in fear that somebody would watch this and then, you pick up the next new thing, create a band-aid on it. But then, there's no longevity or no legacy to what they're doing. Do you have any suggestions as far as things that people shouldn't do?

Yeah, that's a good question. One of the things that I say when I talk about this topic is if you're a leader or manager of 20 or 30 people and you are not naturally playful and you are not a natural, like, you know, team builder, go-get-'em, you know, we all know Michael from The Office, like, if that's not your natural piece, like, be authentic about it and don't try to be something that you're not. Ask some, one of your teammates, empower one of your members to say, hey, you know, I want to do this activity or this discussion. Could you lead it? Because nothing's more awkward than when your, you know, manager, who you know is like a complete, you know, books and numbers guy, comes in and says, all right, guys, we're gonna have a fun time today talking about this. Yeah, like, and everyone kind of— it's like having the substitute come in. Everyone's like, should we, like, you know, go mutiny or what? So yeah, like, this is, this is about people, and this is about trust, purpose, and belonging. If you are not authentic about it, you are wasting your time and probably causing a problem. So I would say that. Also, I guess the other thing Maybe a cautionary is there are so many online courses. I just actually wrote a blog about, you know, why 80% of people drop out of online courses. And I know friends that were working remotely and they're like, oh, we have this whole library of online courses, you know, to keep us engaged and all these things. And it's like, so you want your employees to sit on a video for another hour and listen about burnout? Like, that defeats the point. Like, you want— you're asking them to sit on a computer for another hour and not engage with anybody. So I would say, you know, don't overwhelm, don't think you're helping your employees by saying, look at our whole library of wellness seminars that you can do on your own time and sit in front of the computer for another hour. So I would say those 2. And just measure. Like, I'm so grateful that I have a tool and a company I work with that actually measures culture. And it's so rewarding to have companies see where they're doing well and where they can they can upgrade things and then see their progress. And the employees like it too. They like look at the dashboard and like, look, in the last month, like stress went down and everyone feels like they're part of it. So I guess it's not cautionary, but say like, you know, there is an answer. Like you can actually measure this stuff. So do that so everybody can feel like they're part of raising the culture vibe.

And I love this idea that they can measure it. And I think that you are a perfect resource for people to get hold of to do that. So, could you remind everybody how they can get a hold of you one more time?

Yes, I'd be happy to do that. Yeah, so that is at my website, sarahmhoff.com, and you'll see some of the tools from my Culture Playbook for measurement and the huddles.

That's great. You know, I hate to say it, but this is all the time that we have for today. Sarah, again, thank you so much. I really appreciate you being here to share your knowledge, your passion, and your expertise on this. It's really so phenomenal. Thank you for taking the time.

Absolutely! Thanks so much for having me here today, Marc. This has been great.

It's been great. Thank you again. Why don't you give me a thumbs up if this was of value to you? As always, my offer stands. If you would like 30 minutes of my time to brainstorm your business with you and your Team. And that's the important part. I want to do it together. Please feel free to book yourself on my online calendar. The link is down below in the show notes. It is the one that's marked meetme.so/MarcHaine. As always, I am at your service. And if you haven't done so yet, please why don't you hit the subscribe button and ring the bell. That'll give you first dibs whenever I bring you fresh content that will help you work on your business, not just in Your business. My name is Marc Haine. I hope that you stay safe. Stay safe, stay healthy, and dare to be the exception.