How to get better reviews and income using furniture in your listings

So thank you for joining us on the Boostly podcast today where we're going to be shining the spotlight on our special guest today is all how you can get better reviews and income. Using furniture in your listings is the subject matter. So I'm Liam Carolan and I'm the co host of the Boostly podcast today. Joining me is Sage Nathan. She is head of partnerships at Minoan. Sage is a self proclaimed boutique geek. Easy for me to say, we're going to be diving into what that means a little bit later. She's got a passion for hospitality and has got a history in E commerce and retail and has been with Minoan since they started. So is a great source of knowledge on how we can address our listings. Now Minoan at the moment is only available in the US currently, but if you are listening from other parts of the world still, there's going to be some really actionable, shareable, sort of first of all story and tips that you'll be able to pick up. So please do stay tuned. So Sage, welcome along and thank you for being here. How are you today?

I'm great. I appreciate you guys having me.

We're excited and thank you, thank you for spending your time with us. So let's get started by talking about you. First of all, what is your role at Minoan and what does your day to day routine sort of look like?

It's a good question. And being such a small company right now, or I guess a young company, the day to day can change pretty frequently. But my overall role on the partnership side of the business is working with hosts, working with brands, bringing new hosts and property managers into the fold and really showing them the benefits of using Minoan and how, you know, having a system for furnishing can totally change the game of how they scale and optimize their business going forward. So the day to day for me is working with awesome folks like yourself, like Mark, other content creators in the space and also drilling down into conversations with our hosts to understand like how can we build a better product to help serve you guys. What are your pain points, what do you like, what do you not like and what do you wish to see? So it's a lot of interacting with our hosts and community, which I love. It's honestly one of my favorite parts of my job. So that's a little bit of a glimpse of the day in the life.

I love it when it comes down to Manoa and I'm sure there'll be people listening to this and I know we've been talking about it on the Boostly podcast. We've had Mark and we've had Ali on, but some people still wouldn't haven't heard of Minoan. So in a moment, if you're one of those people listening to this and you haven't heard of Minoan, we will dive into what Minoan is. But first, before we do that, I'd love Sage for you to take me back to what was, what did life look like before Minoan? And why did you end up joining Minoan?

Ooh, that feels like so long ago at this point. Life before Minoan, I was working at an E commerce startup or called jet.com for the people in the US. It was based right outside of New York in Hoboken, N.J. ended up getting sold to Walmart. So I spent a lot of time in the world of E commerce. And traditional like brick and mortar retail is actually where I met Mark working at Jet. And it was August of 2020, the pandemic was in its peak and quite honestly Walmart was doing a big reorg and unfortunately a lot of our team got laid off and the rest and luckily I was in this bucket. Was offered a new role but I had to move to a different state and it just didn't seem like the right opportunity. And so I was looking for, you know, a new chance to do something a little bit different. So I decided not to stay with Walmart. Mark and I ended up catching up and he's like, what do you want to do next? I'm like, I don't really know to be honest. And he's like, well I'm working on this project and here's a little bit about it and if you want like you can come try it out while, you know, you're still figuring things out of what's next and we can just go from there. And I admired Mark since working with him at Jet. So for me it was a no brainer. Although to my parents they're like, why would you not take the job when the economy is horrible and the job market is trash? But all that to say that was my life before coming to Minoan and I haven't looked back since. It's been an incredible over two plus years at this point and it's changing every day and we're growing every day and it's an awesome thing to be a part of. So I'm very fortunate that the cookie crumbled in the way that it did because it led me to working at Minoan.

I mean, it's one of the exciting things seeing that the different tech aspects of hospitality, you know, meeting day to day problems and solving them. Your stories just reminded me of one of the sayings across here, which is, you know, people leave their. Leave their bosses, not their jobs. But you kind of flip that because people have followed their bosses and not the, the company. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. I mean, when you find good people, it's important to, to stick with these good people.

100 and I'm sure, I mean, I know there are a lot of people who were, you know, wanting to, who admire, still admire Mark. And I just feel really lucky to be one of the ones who had the opportunity to get in Minowin when it was this big. So it's been awesome.

So for people who have been listening in, just going, what is Minoan? Why do I need to know about it? If you could just give a brief overview of what Minoan is and how it helps hosts, that would be awesome.

Sure. We're a totally free platform to help hosts simplify furnishing. So if I had a dollar for every time I heard from a host that they manage the entire ordering process in a Google spreadsheet or just in their inbox, I would be filthy rich at this point. It's just not sustainable to manage that process on your own at scale using a Google spreadsheet. So what we build is a free platform to where hosts and property managers and short term rental designers can come in and get access to discounts on over 200 brands that they're probably already buying from, but at really steep discounts. Because the fundamental belief of Minnell is hosts should never pay full retail for anything, anything that needs mattresses, soap, shampoos, I mean, literally anything that goes into their space. And the platform allows you to buy from all of those different brands in one place and then our team helps manage all of the tracking for you. So at any point in time, if you're working on five different projects at once, you could log into Minoan, see tracking for all of your orders across 10, 20, 30 different brands and items in one place. Instead of like going to check your email, then put the tracking in a Google spreadsheet and trying to call customer service. We just help consolidate all of that for them in one place so that they don't have to bounce around to a bunch of different, you know, platforms or tools to do that.

I mean, it's something which every host at some stage runs into that problem. And certainly if you're in the U.S. there'd be, you know, it's one of those things to really Google Minoan and really get involved with it. Because there was something that you said right at the start there, which is free. Why wouldn't you do this? You know, why wouldn't you want to save money on, on your furnishings and why wouldn't you want to be able to make money as well, advertise off it? I know we were lucky enough to have Ali on who we talked a lot about some of those features, how people can monetize from using Minoan. But one of the things which I'd love to ask yourself as looking more, you know, from a host's point of view, what's the number one furnishing that hosts should consider? You know, are we talking that should be, you know, something in the living room, something in the bedroom? What is the things that people should really concentrate on first and foremost, if there is one.

To me, it's linens. I think linens are such a hot topic. I see people talking about them in Facebook groups constantly. And I have a really strong opinion on this after talking with so many hosts who have been buying linens on Amazon or on Costco or from Target or Walmart or wherever it is because they're, you know, they're cheap, they're affordable, whatever term you want to use. The problem is they are retail grade linens. I wish I could say this for myself, Liam. I don't know about you, but I do not wash my sheets three times a week. I don't at my house. Once a week? Twice a week? Yeah. Not three times a week. In a short term rental, how often are you washing your sheets? Every day? Every two days? Every three days. Our retail grade linens like that we buy as consumers for our own homes are not meant to withstand that amount of laundering that sheets go through in a short term rental. So my biggest piece of advice for people is to invest in the linens upfront. Because when you buy, I mean, I could geek out on this, so I'll try and make this a short version. But when you buy retail linens, you're buying a set, pillowcases, a flat sheet, a fitted sheet, et cetera. If you buy hospitality grade linens, you can buy in case packs, which is basically you can buy. I only need more pillowcases. Great. Here you go. Here's a case bank of 12 pillowcases. So it allows you to actually be more flexible in your ordering so that you don't, you know, oh, I need another pillowcase. Okay, well, I have to go to Target and buy a full set. Like that doesn't help you. Also, the time that you spend driving a Target and finding the pillowcase is time wasted. And it's money, basically. You know, in this business, time is money, every dollar, every minute. And so what's really important is, especially as you scale to focus on a scalable approach to linens, which in my opinion is buying in bulk and hospitality grade linens. This also makes turns really easy for your cleaners because what I've also heard from Host is, oh, man, Costco is sold out. So I bought an amaz. Amazon was sold out, so I bought at Target. And now you have five different sheets in your one home. When your cleaner goes to do the turn, it's like, okay, is this a flat sheet? Is this a queen or is this a king? Okay, this Amazon sheet goes with this Amazon sheet. It's costing more time. So having standardized linens across your portfolio and doing that from the start is incredibly, incredibly important. Especially if you go with a brand name like Parachute, they do hospitality linens, and then that's something that you can toss in your listing page. I see all the time. As someone who loves to travel and like you mentioned, a boutique geek, luxury linens, what does that mean? You could be buying them from Amazon. And to be honest, I don't necessarily consider Amazon linens, quote unquote luxury, but if you can put parachute linens, Brooklyn bedding, mattress brands that like, resonate with your guests, you could potentially charge a higher adr and those linens will eventually pay for themselves. So that maybe was a longer version than I anticipated on sharing, but I feel very strongly about linens and the importance of implementing like a program like that from the start.

Hey, it shows. And literally my mind, I was on the journey with you, then I was like, hang on, I did that. I'm guilty of being one of them hosts who, you know, you're getting started, you're trying to keep it cheap. And what I didn't realize, when you buy, you know, linens from local shops, local stores, stuff that they change the range, like the seasons change. And the trouble is that you end up with lots of different ranges from lots of different places. And it's really hard, like you say, to keep track of. So I think that is a really top tip for people that, especially for people getting started. I mean, that is. I wish I'd have known what I know now. Back at the start and that is, is one of them. So thank you for that share. So turn it around a little bit the other way. What is the mistakes that you see when hosts are setting up? You know, and often is there, is there certain items that they don't necessarily consider quite as much? Things like, I don't know, beds or sofas, things like that.

I think the biggest mistake that I would, that I've seen thus far is just not placing a big enough importance on what goes into your space. I see in Facebook groups people talking about getting things from Facebook Marketplace for their properties or going to Ikea and whatnot. And I'm not going to say there's anything wrong with that because to each their own. But if you want to get top dollar for your property and bring in top quality guests, you need to have a space that aligns with that. You know, if you're buying things from Facebook Marketplace and basically making a bachelor pad, that's the type of guest that you're going to attract. And so for me, like my mantra in this industry and what I try to share with hosts is buy nice or buy twice. I understand it could be more cash up front, but I mean, going through Mino and you're able to save, you know, 50, 60, whatever percent off on the items that you have to buy anyway. So for me, it's investing in the areas where people are sitting, sleeping or eating. Where they're going to be the most is the most important thing to focus on. So that means beds, that means bed frames, that means sofas, and making sure that the spaces that you're creating are functional. So if you're saying that your Space can seat 10, it needs to seat 10 at the dinner table. You need to have enough plates. I mean, it's the little things that will make a big difference for your guests, your reviews and your adr. So for me, if I could give a piece of advice, it's to invest in the pieces that matter up front and you can save in other areas. But I wouldn't skimp on a mattress. That's where people sleep. I wouldn't skimp on a sofa. That's where they're going to hang out. And I wouldn't skimp on where people are eating. That's why they're booking a short term rental. Right? There are no dining tables in hotel rooms. That's why they're coming to stay in all of these spaces, because it's basically their home away from home. So I think buy nice or buy twice is the motto that I try to live by in the industry. But I do understand that it can be a little bit daunting, especially if your property has not started to cash flow yet.

It's so true. Again, I'm nodding along for people listening on the podcast. I'm going, yeah, yeah, that's actually me. And so many times, I mean we manage for other people and so many times I see own is get to the stage where like, yeah, I've spent a lot buying the house, I've spent a lot, you know, maybe on the, the kitchen, on the, on the actual, you know, internals of the house. I'm just gonna, I'll just get a cheap whatever for, for this room. And they go, I can always upgrade it later on. And you just go, you're never going to upgrade it. Once the pictures are done, once the photos are done, that's going to be what it is. And if that piece of furniture is poor quality and it breaks, then, you know, you may need to redo photography which costs, you know, like you say buy nice or buy twice at the end of the day. So if it's a nice bit of fur, you're going to attract that higher quality guest. So really love that point. The term in your introduction which I mentioned was boutique geek. And that is, I mean it was an awesome title. I thought what does that mean? And are there gadgets or you know, sort of home furnishings that you personally use either in your home or that you find useful and recommend and why?

Yeah, it's a good question. I guess when I think of myself as a boutique geek, I think of loving to travel to cool, unique spaces. If I can avoid staying in a hotel, I will avoid staying in a hotel. Because to be honest, most of them, especially the large ones, are very cookie cutter. And so with short term rentals, like you really get a chance to curate a space for guests. And to me, like when I'm searching for a short term rental, that is what I will look for. Something that stands out. To me that doesn't look like the other 30 places that I've just scrolled by. There was one. I don't know if this is necessarily something I would like recommend because I don't know, I don't really know the impact that it will have on most guests, but it did on me. I love to cook and so that's something that's really important to me when looking for a place to stay is does it have all of the kitchen essentials? Like I don't just need a Pot and a pan. I need a strainer, I need a can opener, I need all of the, I mean probably like at least 150 things that go into a kitchen. But I was staying at a short term rental in Arizona earlier this year with some friends and this is such a niche example, but it's now made an impact on me almost a year later. They had a set of cooking utensils like a spatula, a ladle, a tongs, whatever, and all of them, I'm like trying to do a visual because maybe my explanation will be as great, but all of them had like a little knob I guess on the handle to where if you put it down on the counter, the top of the saucy ladle or the spatula doesn't touch the counter. And for me that was like a really. I've never seen anything like that. So for me, as someone who loves to cook, it's like they found something that was cool, that was helpful and quite honestly helped them make their counters less messy versus putting a super saucy ladle directly on the counter. So that's not, I'm not looking for kitchen utensils when I'm scouring for short term rentals. But that was just one of those small. It probably cost them less than $15 to do that. And it's made an impact on me, you know, since the day I stayed there.

I often say to, to the people that we manage for and to other hosts and when people ask, that last 10% detail is actually the most important. So many people get 90% of the way where they go, hey, I've got the majority of stuff that's kind of done, let's just get it launched, let's get the cash flow. And that last 10% where like you say that sort of detail that somebody who's probably gone in there and actually either tried to cook themselves or really consider what the experience is going to be like. And it's just so important. You know, we often say, go and try out your short term rentals, try and cook a full blown meal in there. You know, how, how does the place feel? Is there enough pans, is there enough pots? Have you got enough utensils and stuff like that? So that was going to be one of my questions actually is going to be what can somebody do to persuade you to book? But it sounds as is just standing out. You mentioned being different from the other 30 places. So that brings us on to the book Direct Playbook. So the book Direct Blueprint, the Playbook was the Previous one by Mark Simpson. This is a book which features, if you're listening on the podcast or if you're watching on the YouTube, you'll be able to see the COVID of the book. The book itself is all about the kind of blueprint, all the information that you need to know as a host to be able to really strive forward and to be able to push your business to the next level. Whether or not that is like Minoan or some of the other sort of tech and sort of services in there, there's some amazing people. Mark actually calls it his, his book of avengers for hospitality world, which is pretty cool. So sage. I know between yourself, Mark and Ali, you kind of co writ your chapter within the book. How did it feel writing a chapter and what do you feel that the listeners will be able to take away from the chapter on minnowing, Minoan and the book in general?

It was really fun. I remember Ali and I, we were road warriors this year, going to a lot of different conferences and I remember being in a hotel room. We may have been in Nashville for, for some event and we were writing the chapter together, basically slacking with Mark while Allie and I were in the same room, kind of going back and forth. Should we say this? Should we say this? It was really fun. I mean, we met Mark, Mark Simpson for the first time in Nashville at Bill and Mike's event earlier this year in March. And I had no idea who he was at the time. And since then it's like totally changed our relationship and it just feels like an entirely. Another huge door has been opened. Quite honestly, working with Mark, he's a fantastic creator in the space and someone that people look up to, including myself. So being able to be a part of it, I think first and foremost is really special. What people can expect to learn from our chapter is how to utilize furnishing in a systematized way to help them get from one property to five, five to 10, 10 to 20, so on and so forth, where furnishing is no longer the thing that takes the most time and is the most expensive. So helping them, you know, figure out those systems, the tips and tricks, the things to think about when furnishing, the space and the order in which to do that is going to be really, really important for someone who's just getting started or from someone, again like I mentioned, who's already in the industry but is looking to significantly grow and scale their business. So we have a lot of cool content in the book that I'm excited for. People to check out and want to shout out Mark again for inviting us to be a part of it.

He's not going to be able to get out of whichever room he's in listening to this, but thank you so much for praising him. And at the end of the day, it is one of those things he often says himself that, you know, meeting the extraordinary people across the industry, doing extraordinary things is the reason why he does that. And that's what I feel lucky, you know, doing this, getting to meet awesome people like Celsius and to really be at the forefront of hospitality and the tech and the things that can help. Like you say, whether they've got one unit or 15 or 50 units, you know, this is that blueprint in there is really there every step of the way. So it's worth mentioning for people listening on the podcast if you do want to go and check it out. So as we record this, we're in November 2022, the book is coming out in December 2022. So depending on when you're listening to this, you can head to boostly.co.uk blueprint and you'll either be able to pre register for the book if it's before that time, or you'll be able to actually make a purchase. All the money does go to charities, food banks and things like that, which is really awesome. You know, the people involved in this project aren't doing it because, you know, it's making the money. It's a case really doing some good in the industry, helping as many people as possible. And it's just a cool thing to do because we often get asked, hey, what should I do for this? Or where should I go? Now we can say, hey, go and read this book. It's going to tell you so much more than what you need. So a couple of questions I've got to ask because I know people will want to know this, especially from where I am, which in the uk will Minoan be coming to the UK and if so, when?

I hope so. Honestly, I got to go back and now pester our Minoan Mark about that. But I mean, I think the big vision for talking 10x vision of Minoan is to be everywhere. And as a boutique geek myself, I mean I've stayed in some incredible short term rentals in Spain and Italy and France during my own travels and I know that there are some incredible spaces and hosts abroad as well. So certainly we'd love to be there and bring what we've learned from doing business in the US over to Europe and beyond. I think there are a few things that we need to nail domestically first. You know, if you think about doing business abroad, there are a lot of implications with tax, also with shipping. A lot of brands that we work with in the States may not be available in the UK and things like that. So it's definitely a lot of research that we'd have to do on our end. So I think that the short answer is we got to nail the US first. And I hope by the next time the next book happens, I'll have a maybe clearer answer for you. But, but stay tuned. Don't, don't lose hope. Because if we're not doing it, you know, in the short term, there have to be companies there who are doing something similar. And I strongly encourage people who are not in the US to check those out. Because the most important thing, whether you use us, whether you use another company, is that you do have a system in place for furnishing.

This is a great thing about the chapter because I feel that people, no matter where they are in the world, can get, really get the value of how to structure, you know, your, your business when it comes down to furniture. Because when you first get started, you just, you, you don't know what you don't know. And there's lots of mistakes that come off the back of that. And this can save you a lot of, a lot of time and a lot of cash, really, can't it, if you're doing the right thing. So is there anything in hospitality at the moment, as a general industry that you're excited about?

I'm just excited to continue seeing the growth of the short term rental and vacation industry. I know the market is challenging right now, but from what I've been seeing in these Facebook groups, like, that's not necessarily scaring people away from finding new deals and going out there and launching new properties. And I mean, the short term rental space is so incredible. The types of properties that people can put together, from container homes to A frames to tree houses, I mean, it's just so unique. Like you don't see that in hotels. And so as a boutique geek myself, I'm excited to see what the next evolution of the short term rental industry is. And I feel like, you know, it's just getting started and I look forward to seeing how it continues to grow and evolve and selfishly with Manoa, and I'm excited to see how we can continue learning, growing and playing a part in the growing space.

It's an exciting space for sure. And you know, it's like say it is growing every. Everybody who's in this space. It's like a bug, isn't it, where you just go, hey, this is exciting. And it feels like it's just. It's just blowing up still. You know, it's. Even though hospitality has been around for centuries, thousands and thousands of years since the start, dawn of time. But this feels like it's just getting started, especially where the tech is merging with. With hospitality, which is amazing. So as we get towards the end of this stage, we love to do a couple of quick fire questions. These are kind of just fun questions. The answers can be as long as you like. There's no rules around them, but they're just fun to get to know you a little bit better. So have you got a top holiday destination? And why?

Holiday meaning just vacation destination.

Vacation. Yeah, vacation. Sorry, that was my English.

No, it's okay. I just wanted to make sure. I figured in my ideal world, if I could get there easily would be Sevilla, Spain. I spent a few months there in college and was one of my favorite cities I've ever been to. So if I could get there every week, I wish I could. So hoping to get back there soon, but that's definitely one of my top spots to travel.

Nice. Nice. I like that. If we talked about being the Avengers, so if you were Avenger, which one would you be or what would be your superpower and why?

Oh, that'd be my superpower. I think being able to transport would be pretty cool because that would solve my previous answer of being able to get to Spain and back to Colorado pretty quickly. So I like being. Being able to transport myself or like time travel would be pretty cool.

Hey, linking the link and the answers together, this is one thing I always love to ask because I'm a proper movie geek, you know, sort of. We talked about your boutique geek. I'm a movie geek. Is there any movies that you think that everybody listening should go and check out or one that you particularly enjoy?

Oh man, I have, I think a very cringy taste in movies. And to be honest, I'm not. I'm not huge into movies, to be honest. The first movie that comes to mind is. Is where the Millers. I don't know if you've seen that, but yeah, Jason Sudeikis and Jennifer Aniston. It's. I like those comedy kind of like borderline stupid movies, to be honest. That is my embarrassing to admit, but honest answer.

They're feel good movies and in the time Movies with that on, you don't change the channel. You just, you know, 100%. Yeah. Watching them. So we always end our podcast with a question which is quite poignant and for today's question is going to be who inspires you and why?

There are a lot of people, to be honest, that inspire me, but in the context of this call and just like what I've been thinking about for the past several months, like reflecting, especially as we get towards the end of the year, would. Would be Mark like our Minoan Mark. I took a pretty scary job to leave a comfort of like a cushy job to come to a startup at the time that had raised no money. And, you know, we were a team of. It was basically Mark and his co founder Shoban and a few engineers. And Mark has been and is an incredible leader. He's smart, he's empathetic, he is funny, and I feel really lucky to work for him. And even on the hard days, like, having a leader like Mark kind of steering the ship makes all of the hard days and the tough times and the challenges and the obstacles totally worth it. So I'm riding this Minoan ship all the way, and I feel really lucky to work with and for Mark. And I can guarantee that everyone in our team feels the same. So definitely Mark would be my answer. And he knows this, I'm sure. So when he hears this, I'm sure it'll come up in our conversation.

I'm sure he'll comment on it. And yeah, thank you so much. I mean, I also love the fact we've coined we've got Boostly Mark and Minoan Mark.

So yeah, Minoan Mark. We have one with a K, one.

With a C. Exactly. I think.

Yeah. Stofsky. Close.

Yeah, I was going to say I'm terrible with pronunciation, so that's okay.

Simpson's a lot easier.

So thank you so much. One of the things which people will be wondering is how can they get in touch and find out more about Minoan. But also if there's, you know, if you're happy to share any of your socials or anything, like how they can get in touch with you if they want to hear more from. From yourself.

Sage, no problem. So our Minoan Instagram is @minoanexperience. We have a Facebook page. You can check us out on LinkedIn as well. My personal email is just sage s a g eknown experience.com. i always love connecting with hosts that we work with hosts that we don't work with any questions. Anything you guys want to talk about hospitality related, I'm always interested. So you have my email address and plenty of ways to get in touch with us and our website. If you guys want to sign up and you haven't yet, you can go to our website@minoanexperience.com thank you so much.

And yeah, really feel that we kind of got to know you a bit more about Minoan and those tips both about, you know, what guests sorry hosts should do and what they should avoid is just so important. So I hope the listeners have got some good value. Was there anything we missed or any final thoughts before we close off the podcast?

The only thing I would say is for people who are in the U.S. stay tuned because we have a lot of exciting releases and feature updates coming in early 2023. You guys have shared some incredible feedback. We've listened, we've taken it into account and I think you guys are going to be really excited with what's coming in 2023. So just stay tuned.

Hey, that is a proper teaser. I'm excited to find out for them. So thank you so much Sage for coming on today. And also thank you to our listeners, to those watching on YouTube as well and on the podcast. I know there's lots of places that you can put your attention and I really thank you for putting your attention with Boostly. Hopefully you've learned a lot and this has been useful. So that is bye from Sage and buy for me. See you on the next one. Thanks very much Tara.

Thanks Liam.

Having a blast. Gonna get it on the Bruce Lee podcast. Bruce Lee like Bruce Lee Cause it's so hard and the T is loose leaf making up those rhymes don't write it, just do it loosely.