The Different Types of Influencers you can work with

Very much for doing this today. We really appreciate it. So what obviously we're gonna. This whole episode is around influencer marketing and hospitality businesses and why people, why hosts of accommodation should really be be looking at it for the back end of 2020, going into 2021 for their marketing. And there's so many buzzwords that are used around influencers nowadays. Mega macro, micro nano. Could you just for people listening who haven't got a clue what any of those things mean with influencers and mega macro micro nano. Can you break down what each of them actually means, please?

Sure. So at goat and you know, for all the influencer stuff that we've done over the last few years, it's never really been about defining what those things are. We've kind of always rebuffed what, what they are. And we truly believe that anybody who is talking about those things is normally trying to sell one of those things in particular because that's what their business is. So if someone's saying, yeah, nano influences are the way to get to audiences and nano in their definitions, meaning people that have less than a thousand followers and sort of the everyday person, there's a good chance that that person that's telling you to do that and they think that that's the way is or has a business that is a nano influencer selling business. And that goes right the way through to macro influencers, which most people define as sort of over 100,000 followers, and then sort of mega or hero influencers, which are sort of, you know, above a million. And, you know, that's. Yeah, it just, it just doesn't really ring true because there's so many different ways you can do influencers. I mean, as with all advertising, there are so many different ways you could skin the cat. And we also don't believe that it's the only thing that works in the entire marketing mix, which I think a lot of influencer marketing agencies or people that work in influencer or even social to try and make you believe is that it's the only thing in marketing that works right now. And that's just not true. However, influencer is a great way to generate roi. It's a great way to thing to work in conjunction with other forms of media and marketing channels. You can use influencer content to create Facebook paid content. You can use influence content to do influencer paid content. You can use it for billboards and tv. Obviously I'm talking about things in a sort of larger business scope, but, you know, the opportunity when using influence content, I mean, you can use it for reviews and things like that. So I think defining them down to certain definitions and kind of ring fencing them into those four categories, it's like a horoscope, right? You're trying to put millions and millions of people into 12 categories. This doesn't seem right. And with influencers putting them into four categories based on a number which doesn't really tell you about how loyal the audience is, what the engagement is. Do people actually care about the content they create? Is that vertical that they're influencing or creating content in even got the ability to become a mega influencer. Are they therefore a mega influencer or a micro influencer within that community? Or are they a micro influencer within the understandings of the entire world? What's the barometer of it? So that's kind of where I stand on those definitions. So yeah, I mean the traditional way of looking at it would be nano sub 1000, micro 1000 to 100,000, macro 100,000 to a million, and then hero or mega, whatever you want to call it, kind of a millionaire.

I like how you sort of brought it back to where it's quality over quantity and Right. There's people out there that, you know, have sort of tricked the system in the past and, you know, got their way from a smaller amount of followers to a larger amount because they think that's going to attract them bigger brands. But you know, as you know, as many do, it's more of the quality. It's who's actually liking, who's engaging, who's going back to those posts on a daily, if not hourly basis.

It's mad that people forget how marketing works when a new marketing channel arises. Like you wouldn't advertise female handbags on Spursports. You just wouldn't do it. It's not where the audience is. Yes, of course there are females watching spurs sports, but there's not the major demographic. It's the same for other things. Think about who your audience is and when a new channel comes through, there's almost like a short term memory loss as to how to do marketing. We kind of default right the way back to try and find as big a number as we possibly can. That's never been the way that advertising or marketing has worked correctly throughout the history of time.

Yeah, and I think so many people just forget. The core principle is that this is your business. So this is my hospitality business and I cater for families. So what is my ideal customer? Avatar? Who's my ideal audience? Where are they going to spend their Time, you know, I'm a farm stay business that is ideal for families. I'm not going to go advertising and promoting the local nightclubs around here. It's the same core principle. It's just thinking about it when it comes to influence. And so. And again, I think the problem with this newly coined term influencer marketing, I think so many people, specifically in my industry, which is hospitality, they dismiss it because they just feel like it's somebody trying to blag a free holiday, when really, if you look at it from another angle, then it's a fantastic avenue to get in front of a whole new potential audience that is around your niche of what you provide and they just don't currently know about you. And, and I think that what I want to achieve with this episode is you can start right at the very, very basics, which is your current customers, like you say, nano potential influencers, ones that have got maybe 600 followers, but they've got such an engaged local audience that they could, you could potentially work together. Now, when you've sort of been chatting to people in the past and have gone, harry, listen, I haven't got a clue where to get stuff with all of this. What would be sort of that one bit of advice that you just seem to always give to somebody, specifically a small business owner, when you're saying, listen, this is how I would recommend that you go out and find a potential person to work with, whether it's a nano influencer, a micro influencer, somebody to start working with, they would talk about you online in exchange for something. Where's the best place? Or what's the one bit of advice that you seem to give people?

I think the one piece of advice is don't believe necessarily the best ones will come to you and understand exactly what we're trying to achieve. I mean, we've always banged on about and become a bit of a mantra of ours that it's niche audiences. No, it's niche content and niche audiences at scale. That's kind of what we're looking for. So if you're, if you're in, if you own an Italian restaurant, then find the best pasta connoisseurs, people who just create content about pasta and pizza and things like that. Those are the people that are going to have an audience that cares about the content and the product that you're selling. Same goes for country retreats or spas or adventure holidays or whatever it might be in the hospitality space. Find people that really, really resonate with that, that are known for that. It's Authentic and also they have an audience that cares about that content and then try. And this is the crucial part, don't just leave them to their own devices. Build experience around something, make sure there's something there in the bedroom when they arrive. And this goes for anything, right? If you're talking about nano influencers or people who are just customers anyway, think about experience in every way possible. We're living in a completely different world nowadays where people document everything they do. People will use WhatsApp to communicate with their friends and family on a second by second basis, depending on what they're doing. Instagram stories, where they like to tell the world and show off. Build things for experience, build things for social media, build things to be shared, because that's where it's all coming from. You know, you look at certain restaurants in London are building, especially in the, in the girls toilets are building amazing sort of murals or, you know, feature walls which are great and also lit properly, which are great for group photos. You know, things where people can build experience and are built for sharing are very, very important. We worked with Byron, Byron Burger to create the most Instagrammable burger menu. You know, things like that, where people actually take photos of things and share them because it makes a difference and it's free. So that comes right away back to an influencer platform collaboration that you might be working on, that you are paying for, but at the same time, how can you extract the maximum potential earned content and earned media out of them whilst they're, whilst they're there being paid for or having a gifted opportunity and event that they're taking part in? There's so many other things that you can do with them. Can you give them that little box when they arrive which has. Instead of. It's just being like the robe that you normally get a hotel, maybe it's embroidered with their initials that they can take home or a towel or whatever it is. Really small touches make a big difference to people and I think people forget that quite a lot when we travel around the world with influencers. You know, even things like getting a really nice taxi. So instead of spending £20 on a Toyota Prius to get you around, you spend £40 and get a Mercedes S Class. You know, it makes a big difference. People, it's, it's a psychological thing. People are more likely to give back to you if you give to them. And small, small differences make, make a big, big difference on a, on a earned media and, and a relationship play. And let's not forget this is the first digital marketing technique ever where it's human to human. We, we can play on empathy, we can build relationship, we can do this. This is a human to human play. This is face to face marketing. This is word of mouth redefined. And it's very, very exciting that we can do that with human beings. Unlike sitting behind a laptop and having to bid against a computer that we've been doing with Google and Facebook for years on it.

What I like about this chart is that it's gone from influencer, but it's boiled down to how can you make your guest experience even better. So what you were talking about there with leaving, right.

Everybody, everybody's an influencer right now, 100%. They have different influence over different people with different content. But everyone has the opportunity to influence someone else. And in hospitality more than anything, people are looking to share experiences. They're going on. We're living in a society where people love experience. They're buying experience for their partners, they're buying experience for their family, their friends above product. And when they have that experience, they need to feel like they're one, getting their money worth and two, getting things that they didn't expect. And that didn't expect factor is unbelievably valuable to the point where you could just never put a price on it. And if that kind of comes back to the, the taxi example where we flew these guys business class over to Uruguay and they had 10 million followers each and then you know, we had the most amazing time and everything was planned for them. But the thing that he didn't expect was to be in a really, really nice taxi from one place to another. That the thing they remember when they said thank you at the end like really appreciate putting us in really nice day. It's so basic, but it probably cost us like another hundred dollars. And it was, and it was a thing that they remember but they were most thankful for us. And at the same time they probably over delivered because of little things like that and a combination of those things.

Yeah, if anybody's watching or listening back on this and they're thinking, I don't even know where to get started. There's a great book called Talk Triggers by Jay Baer. They go through so many different examples of how you can turn just a little list of things and one of the examples they give is the Hilton doubletree chocolate chip cookie. That's a perfect way of getting started with something little like that and you can build up to a Mercedes taxi. But I like that with getting in touch with influencers for the first time or getting in touch with a personality or getting in touch with anybody that you want to potentially work with. How, how do you recommend people bridge this? Because obviously there's going to be the money question. Obviously there's going to be what is in it for me? What's in it for you? Have you got any, any sort of words of advice of how to start the conversation? If you've got any sort of recommendations that, that you've learned over the years of how to approach an influencer or how to potentially work together?

I think if you find the right match from the get go, then that conversation should be easy. I don't think you should be forcing anyone to do anything. They don't feel like they're going with you with the experience and don't feel like they're excited about it and they're doing it just for the money. Then it's really not the collaboration that you want to be, you want to be a part of. And we see that quite a lot. We see that, right, the big, you know, in the big leagues as well, right? When we're talking about the biggest supernovas in the, in the country or the biggest tech brands in the world. And sometimes it doesn't matter how much of a perfect brand fit it looks like for the influencer and for the brand, the influencer is just not into it that much. You can feel it again, that comes back to this amazing human to human touch that we've got with these influencers that we have with no other form of digital marketing at scale. We can actually feel what these people think about before they do it. And that will be a really good guide as to whether or not they're going to be the right partner. And sometimes someone who's really into and excited despite not having the same reach because they get into it more and provide more value for you actually could be, could be better for you. So you know, think about, think about them as if we change the word from influencer for the hospitality space into advocate. You know, that's how you're trying to, that's what you're trying to create. You're trying to create advocates and there are pillars of marketing and experience that will allow you to create greater advocates for your business.

I mean, a lot of people won't even realize this but you know, if you just go onto your Instagram feed right now for your business and just go and look at the people that have following your page or somebody that maybe have posted. If you go look at Your location tags, there may be somebody that has stayed with you in the past that is got a very big social influence and you just never knew of it. So that's obviously a lot easier to have that conversation because you can just pick up the phone because you'll have the adaptation database still on your records or you can send them a message and that's an easier conversation to have. But, yeah, 100%. If you've got a hospitality business that is more catered towards what they're talking about and obviously do a bit of research, don't just go in cold, actually see who they are and maybe follow them for a couple of weeks, months, you know, engage with them and then that conversation becomes a whole lot easier than going in cold. Really appreciate your time, Harry, on doing this. There's loads of takeaways for people that are doing this. If anybody wants to go and find out more about go, where's the best place to go?

Jump on LinkedIn. We're pretty prolific on that platform. We create a daily vlog every single day about how the agency operates. So you can see my terrible haircut on a daily basis through that medium.

Amazing. All right, buddy. Really appreciate that. Thank you very much for joining us. Gonna move on to now. The person that I'm gonna interview next, he is a bit of a phenomenon. I've known him since meeting up with him, surprise, surprise, in Liverpool for before a football game. And we're going to be talking to somebody that just relies on Instagram to bring in bookings, which is. Which is crazy. He has been in and around property and hospitality for a good few years now and he is well known in the area, so much so that he just is the person that people go to when they want to get accommodation. His Instagram is Hotelman. He's known as the Hotelman and he explains how he got that name. But now he's got to a point where influencers, social mediaites are contacting him to say, hey, we're coming to Liverpool or we're going to London or we're going to X. We need accommodation. Where can you find us? And he's pretty much just like the middleman and he has built this up from working with influencers. Just become the person that can sort accommodation out and, you know, it's been really successful for it. He hasn't even got a website as much as I've been pestering him to get a website. I've even said, listen, I will build you a boostly website. But, you know, he doesn't need it because he's done the work with, working with just influencers. So I want to introduce you all to Manny. So first and foremost, could you spend a couple of minutes just introducing yourself, let everybody know a little bit more about you, where you are in the world and yeah, how many, how many years you've been, you've been hosting now.

So I'm based in Liverpool, everyone calls me the Hotel man or knows me as the Hotel man, but my name's Manny. I sort of got that name from like, you know, I used to work at a hotel, funnily enough, and I just said to the owner one day, I said, well, I could probably sell some of these rooms for you, you know, and this was almost 10 years ago, so we're talking nine years ago, this was in 2011. And yeah, from there people just used to say, ask the hotel guy for a room, Ask the hotel man, ask hotel Manny. And then that's how the hotel man name sort of came.

Nine years in the making. Awesome. So you've expanded from more than just hotel rooms now. Can you give us a bit of a background, just a bit of an overview of your full portfolio that you do now?

So at the moment we're managing.

I.

Think it's just over 30 properties now. We just got to 32 properties that we manage. So we do the management side of things. But then we also. I've also got my own properties in the mix as well, run as service accommodation. And then I've also got. What happened from there was, is I used to, for example, I would go to hotels and ask them, well, look, if yous are busy or if yous are full, why don't you, you know, if you need a room, just give me a call. Because I remember working at a certain hotel, can't remember which one it was and they used to purposely overbook, which was an. I don't know, in the hotel world it might be a thing, but it was Premier Inn actually. And they used to always on the system, they'd always be overbooked, you know, on the busy nights. And they do it because they know that not everyone would turn up or I can't remember the. Again, I can't remember why they used to do that or allow people to do that. So from there I just used to think, well, why don't I just go to these hotels and you know, tell, you know, ask them, tell them that I've got, you know, rooms available. And then from there I am, I don't know, people just used to give me, like, requests because they used to come to the hotel man page and they used be to be like, hey, you know, can you get us a room there? Or I'm going here. So then I will just link up with other hotels. So, you know, let's just say yourself, you could be in London and I, you could have a hotel or an apartment there. And I just drop you a message and be like, you know, I've seen you've got this apartment there. I know some, We've got a book in here. And I tell them, like, bookings I've done before, I'd show them, look, go and check out my page. And they would see like a guest review on the page or where someone's tagged us from one of our stays before, and it would just give them some confidence. And then from there I just thought, well, why don't I just, you know, start getting into all the different types of properties? And it was only. I mean, the log cabins are the busiest now and I haven't. I've only been probably doing them for about 18 months.

Yeah, yeah. So this is the cool thing as well. What I like about you is that you. You've done all of this with just social media, right? So there's no website, it's just Facebook and Instagram, is that correct?

That is correct, yeah.

So you've built up this following, you know, the Hotel man just on Facebook and Instagram. So there's no fancy ad spend, there's no big fancy website, you know, there's no fancy booking engine. It's literally all done just through you going out there and networking, building relationships with hotels and obviously you've got clients and you've got bookings and you've just basically managed to match the two. You're a hotel matchmaker.

Yeah.

Awesome. All right, well, when then? Because this, obviously this episode is all about influencers, social media influencers. When did you start to notice that the people that you were getting booked into rooms, apartments, lodge, cabins, for example, when did you first start to notice that they were people with a social media following? That was kind of large and they had a bit of an influence.

I think it must have been in about 2012. So there's a city centre hotel and again, I met the owner of this hotel just by. I actually went to book a room there for some family coming from London and then we ended up just having a conversation at the reception and then a couple weeks later he bumped into this gentleman again and he basically got me to start working at the Hotel. And so from working there, I was probably about a year into the hotel now and then I remember we got this, you know, from the in betweeners.

Yeah.

And the guy, his name, I think it's Jay from the in betweeners. I think that's his name on the in between. One of the in betweeners, he was doing a club PA and I remember just taking the picture with him at the hotel and then posting it and then, you know, getting a lot of, you know, feedback from it. I mean like a lot of people liked it and then I think that sort of made me realize that the power of influencers. And then after that, you know, we started doing like some stuff with some football players, local football players, you know, then I think from there, you know, posting a picture with, you know, a few of them in the room and then, you know, people from Geordie Shaw. I remember that then. Yeah, just from, yeah, just grew from there really.

And at what point did you realize that having people that had a big social media following come and stay at your properties? When did you sort of realize that you could use it as a marketing advantage for you? Like who was the first one that you approached to go, alright, so you're gonna come and stay here, I'll do you a reduced rate or a free stay. And in exchange what I'd like for you to do is post up on your personal account, you know, your account that you've got all these followers on and tag me in and talk about it. Who was the first and when was the first you started doing that?

Do you know? I couldn't. I did have a think about this and I can't actually remember the first, but I do remember doing some, Someone approached me, they needed some last minute accommodation and it was for some of the Real Housewives of Cheshire.

Yeah.

And they were coming to Liverpool, there was a big event on somewhere and in the end, to be honest, they didn't even do me the post in the end. So it's not. They didn't even do me the post in the end. It'd be one of the Love island casts. I just remember one year they were looking for route. They were, they were when they come out and one of them put up like something like, oh, I'm looking for a room. And then it was one of the, it was Alexandra Kane from Love Island.

So Alexandra came from Love Island. This is a good one to just sort of circle down on. So when you saw that she came out and said, I'm looking for a place to stay. In Liverpool, did you reach out to her and just say, this is what we got, or was it just a conversation where somebody came to you saying, we've got Love Island?

No, I reached out to her because I'd seen she needed the room. She's like, oh, looking for a room in London, and I just reached out to her.

Or was that on Instagram?

On Instagram, yes.

You send them a message on Instagram. The beauty of messaging somebody on Instagram is they don't have to be following you for you to get direct messages. That's the beauty of it. So you send a message to them saying, hey, I can sort you out. And so what was the conversation? When you sort of go down this route, whether they either come to you or you go to an influencer and say, hey, I can help you. Like, how do you sort of work it with a rate where they come and stay at your place and how do you sort of then go listen, in return, we'd love to give you this reduced rate, but in return we'd like you to do X, Y and Z on your social media to promote us. How does that sort of conversation normally work?

So basically I'd send them the message and they get back to me. And then what I'd always do first, I'd send them examples of people that have, you know, guests that I've done before. So that's why if you look on my Instagram, I have a guest to guest review section. So one of them's full and then the other one's just building up. And that's of any guests who have tagged me. So that just gives them the confidence to know that, hey, I can, you know, I can do that. What's the word I'm looking for? That gives them the confidence to know that they can come and, you know, stay with me and it's gonna be fine. Because there is a lot of people on Instagram, you know, you get some of these dodgy places, do you know what I mean? Which people might feel a bit like, oh, don't know, can I trust it? Or whatever. So that gives them the confidence at first. And then what I'll also do is sometimes I'll give them that. And then if I know there's a another influencer that they may know, I'll also tell them that as well, that they've stayed. So then they can go and ask that influencer if needs be. Yes, go from there. And then I always on the price wise is it just depends on the demand, like if it Was. Let's just say it was somewhere. Let's just say, for example, it was. I know sometimes when the Millennium Stadium and Cardiff has a, you know, big event on. You can't get a room in Cardiff. And if an influencer definitely wanted a room around that time, they're gonna have to pay something. Do you know what I mean? Like, there's no ifs or buts, because if they're definitely going through that event and they need to and they want to stay there. So in that case, I'd reduce the rate. But then it all depends on what your budget is as well. You know, sometimes I could give the rate. I could give them a free room if I know that the bookings I'm gonna get for it are gonna make up for it and more. So it just depends, again, on what your budget is and stuff like that. But I just wouldn't go too much, you know, if Your room was 500 quid for the night, you'd rather. I'd rather get the 500 quid than give it for free. Give it for free. Unless you knew that person was gonna bring you in, you know, a thousand worth of bookings.

Yeah. And. Okay, then. So if it was someone. Right now we do have a lot of hospitality owners who have been sort of looking at, working with potential influencers, looking at other marketing channels and then the usual. Because this is definitely creative thinking, this one. What. What would you recommend them do to get started? So that they haven't had anybody, say a social media influencer or a journalist or anybody come stay over in the past. Where's the good place to get. Get started, like, for yourself, Obviously you use Instagram. Do you recommend that? Or is there any other things that you'd recommend?

They do, yeah. I mean, things I'd recommend are definitely Instagram. On Instagram. I've seen Gary Vee put like a thing up and saying, like, everyone's so accessible via Instagram, just message whoever you want. Like, everyone is accessible. You're like, you. You're accessible through Instagram. Do you know what I mean? Like, someone could message you. So definitely Instagram. I'd also look at, you know, people who manage, like, some of these celebrities and some of these social influencers message some of the agencies. I would also some of the Facebook pages. And as well, just, you know, if, you know, again, you might know someone that knows influencer, I'd message them as well.

So again, I think that I would just say to add mine. And is that if you're gonna look to Work with an influencer, try and have it around your, your theme. So if you're a, you know, a family friendly hospitality business and you're looking to work with an influencer and say you're based out in the middle of the countryside and you know, you've got your audience that you know but you like. But try and find influencers, bloggers, journalists, whatever, around that, around that niche. You know, obviously yours are city centre, yours, London, Liverpool. You know, you built up your reputation around, you know, the names you were mentioning, Geordie Shaw, you know, Love island, you know, these are the ones who are coming for a night out, you know, or they're coming for a, you know, a PA event like the J from the In Betweeners for example. So you know, you knew your audience really well and you knew how to get in. Now that doesn't mean just because you've got a different niche that there might not be a social media influencer in that category. There's influencers for everything now and you need to, you don't have to go big, you know, obviously Love island and those sort of people you're talking about 30, 40, 50,000. You can have a great success from somebody that may have say 5,000 followers or 10,000 followers on Instagram, but they are in your niche, you know, so that's really good advice. Get started on Instagram first. Now if anybody wants, I'll tell you this.

Mark, sorry to interrupt you but one of the best. I don't know if I call them an influencer, but they were more of like, just like a well known person within, you know, Liverpool City. They were always putting up funny posts and stuff like that. Now I actually paid for a post off them once which cost me 50 quid. And I remember the feed, the amount of like new like friend requests I got off, it was just like, it was overwhelming. It was just like it was too much to handle. But I got a load of business off it.

Yeah.

So again, so as you were saying, yeah, find someone that's to going, gonna go with the narrative of what you do. But also you might. Someone doesn't have to be exactly, you know, an influencer. If you know someone that's popular within your area or along that theme, then go for it.

So I like that. And if anybody wants to go and find your Instagram and they want to go, look at these guest reviews as a sort of an example. What was your handle on Instagram again, buddy?

It's hotel. Yeah, Underscore. Yeah, man, Epic.

Thank you for that. Buddy, really, really appreciate it and good luck with everything and you know, continue to put out the good work. And yeah, thank you very much for sharing your experience with, with influencers.

Awesome. And if, and likewise. And if anyone wants to drop me a message on, you know, any other advice or stuff like that with social media that feel free to just drop me a message and yeah, lovely.

So hotel man on, on Instagram, go send him a message if you, if you've got any questions. But yeah, thank you very much, buddy, for that. Really appreciate it. No worries, you too many for that. I'm really glad that we managed to get him onto the podcast. He was very wary about it, obviously a little bit nervous, but I'm super happy that he did. And also thank you to Harry as well. Please make sure you go check out the GO Agency, go check out Hotelman on Instagram. And again, I just wanted to leave you with a little bit of actionable advice that I can give to you right now on how to find your first influencer. So we've all, we've obviously spoken about maybe going back and looking at previous guests that may have tagged you in and posts on Instagram or Facebook and just to see if they've got a big following. But also as well, I would be really pushing the message out to everybody that stayed with you in the past and contacting them and saying, listen, do you know anybody that was, would like to stay here? You know, please, do you have any photos that you'd like to share with us that we can share on our social media or have you shared them on your own social media? Can we see them? Can you tag us in? You know, if you, if you do a little photo tagging competition on Instagram or Facebook, you say, listen, take your picture from when you stayed here, go to Instagram, tag us in, give them, give them your Instagram handle. And you know, what we'll do is we'll do it over the course of a month, 30 days, and we'll pick one person at random that will win a one or two night stay. And again, because you're getting somebody else to talk about you. That social proof is massive and it opens the door of possibilities for people that could potentially book with you again, a friend of a friend who sees it down that social path with that social proof. And again, they may have two followers, they may have a thousand, they may have 10,000 followers, which is cool. And then you're getting into the realm of the different types of influencers with the micro and the macro and all of the other types that we spoke about, about with Howie. Now if you want to maybe start to reach out to somebody who's got 10, 20, 30, 40, 50,000 followers, engaged followers, all that you simply need to do, go into Instagram, open up the app, go into the Explore feature and you're gonna look for hashtags around your niche. So maybe family friendly, it could be kids adventures, holidays, UK pet friendly, dog friendly sort of things like that, you know, so dog blogs, or put those in on Instagram, run a few different hashtags, go and see who are the more popular ones. Go and click on the first one at the top of the most popular one on that hashtag, have a look at the post, have a look where they're based, have a look at the followers, have a look at how many people engage with every post, see if they engage with them, you and then go down that rabbit hole, see if they've got a website, see if they've got a blog, see if they've got a YouTube channel, see if they've got a Facebook page. And then you can do all the research that way. Maybe get together one or five names, start following them for 30 days, interact with each post, get to know them, send them a message and just say, hey, I like your work. You know, they will naturally come back and see who you are through your page. And then after good 30 days of being contacted with one to three, three people, then you can then reach out to them and go, hey, you know, I've been following you for a good solid 30 days now. I really like what you do. This is who we are. Is there any way that we could potentially work together? And that's how the conversation will start. If you do between 1 and 3, 1 to 5, sorry, I guarantee you'll get one person over the course of 30 days. If you can reach out with them and get to know them over 30 days and you like what they do and you know you can chat with them, then one of them will agree to be able to work with you whether it's paid. So you pay them to come and stay at your place to engage with all the things that you set them to do. And then they will then once they're paid, Instagram, blog, YouTube, whatever you you decided to do as a return or if it's just a straight up free swap, whatever you decide. This is super powerful. And again, if you just think maybe a 500 pound spend for what could be, even if you get just two or three bookings on the back of it massive. And then you build that relationship with one, and then you can go from one and then they've got the network. The blogger influencer world is so incestual. Everybody knows everybody. So working with one that Maybe has got 10,000 followers could lead your way to working with somebody else that's got 100,000 or 500,000 followers. And again, that's such a powerful way of working together and building up that relationship. So I hope this has been useful. Slightly different from the marketing advice you may have get from other channels out there, but I firmly believe this is a great way to go.