231: Beyond wanting; the art of true manifestation, ft. Matt Cooke

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Thank you, Martin. What a phenomenal introduction that was. Yeah, I'm really excited to dive in deeper.

Amazing. So just before we get started properly, um, for anyone that's yet to read your incredible book Beyond Wanting, What's your backstory? Because this hasn't always been on the cards for you, has it? Like, how did you get into the manifestation world?

Yeah, great question. And anyone who's finding me for the first time, it's a very interesting story because I never thought I'd be here as a manifestation researcher, coach, and author. I, I sold property for 10 years. I was an estate agent. And if I take you back to 2018, September 2018. And I think anyone who's in the corporate will resonate with what I'm about to say. It was just a very stressful time. Um, remember it really clearly. I was the youngest manager in my whole company by about 10 years. I was doing really well on paper for my age. I was like, you know, early 20s. And I just had this real tight chest. I remember it really clearly. Like, I was struggling to like breathe and I didn't really know what to do about it. And I spoke to my wife. And she just sort of casually mentioned it to her grandmother, um, who were also really close with. And her grandmother recommended that I had reflexology. And I, I honestly, like, I, I knew nothing of it. I just thought it was just like a foot massage. And, uh, you know, I didn't really sort of open up then to many people, and I just thought, you know what, if, if this is going to help and she's prepared to pay for it— back then I didn't have much money, you know— and, uh, she was like, just come over and I'll arrange for this sort of therapist to come over and it will help. And I was like, great, okay. So I go over to her house and I'm lying there on the, the couch with this reflexologist called Lee. Didn't know who he was, he didn't know who I was. And as I lay there for what I thought would be a simple foot massage, he asked me a question. And this was the first trigger. And he said to me— and you've probably read this in the book— but he said to me, so, Matt, 'Um, tell me who you are.' And I said, 'I'm 26 years old, I'm the youngest manager in my company, and I sell property.' And he said, 'No, no, sorry, man, I didn't ask what you did for a living. I asked who you are.' And I was like, 'What?

What?

Who am I?' I just— I, I can go back to that scene right now because I genuinely didn't know how to answer it. And I kept on answering, answering this question. He was like, no, no, no, that's just the shell. That's just who, who, who is— who are you? And I was like, all I remember, Mark, in that moment is thinking an astronaut, you know, they're in space in this suit, and if we look at an astronaut, all we see is the suit. We never— we don't know who's inside, but there is a person inside.

Yeah.

And that's all I can remember thinking, that Wow. Like, I don't like being an estate agent. I don't. And the only reason I'm doing it is because I thought I was making my dad proud, and he doesn't actually care anyway, you know. He never even checks in. Like, so why am I even doing this? Why am I under so much stress? And I remember just thinking, I don't want to do this anymore. But I still didn't know who I was. That was the thing. But I knew I was not happy. That was it, right? So Literally, obviously I couldn't just quit my job. I wasn't spiritual at all by that point. I didn't even know what manifestation was. The only thing I knew though was I needed to get out of property. So for about 5, 5 or 6 months, I started to watch like motivational videos on YouTube. Not spiritual, motivational. I'm talking like Tony Robbins, Jim Rohn, that sort of stuff, right? And naturally, as you can imagine, ads pop up for stuff. A lot of people, you know, back then in 2018 were promoting what was called the laptop lifestyle. Not many people back then were making a living online, not like today. And like, it was like, I saw this ad pop up once and I was like, wow, what is this? It was a guy who was like my sort of age. He was in corporate sales. He was now traveling the world on his laptop as an affiliate marketer. And I was like, This sounds really cool. So I started, Mart, at the same time learning that whilst working my corporate job and still listening to motivational content to get me out. So I was changing. I now had hope. And that then led up to this fundamental awakening, which, as you know, you'd have read, was February 2019. So we're talking about 5 months later. So a lot's happened in those sort of 5 months. And very strange, right? I'm lying in bed with Khorasan, my wife. It's a Tuesday evening. It's about 10 o'clock. We're watching— I can't remember exactly what it was. It was either Netflix or YouTube. And we're lying there, and I decided to roll over and go to sleep, which in itself is rare because she always falls asleep first. So, for whatever reason, in that moment, she stayed up watching, and I rolled over. And, you know, when you're like aware, still, though, of the world around you, you're not asleep. You're trying to go to sleep. But my body was still, my mind was still sort of aware. I could hear Khorasan breathing, I could hear the show playing, and then literally like really randomly out of nowhere, this like sensation just started to occur at the base of my feet, and it was like a vibration, and it was like slowly encompassed my whole body until honestly my whole body was doing this weird intense, like, vibrating to a point where it was so intense it felt like I could almost hover above my bed. And it wasn't painful, so I allowed it to continue. And I felt like I could have stopped it, but I wanted to continue seeing where it was going to go. And, and then what happened was a high-pitched ring out of nowhere. In both ears, really loud, at the same time as this vibration. And I was like, what's going on here? And then complete silence. And a muffled voice I heard, uh, initially from what sounded like the opposite end of like a sports hall. And it got closer and closer and closer until I heard it really clear. And it was my late mother, um, and she said, Matt, it's Mom, can you hear me? And Mart, it blew me away because my mom had passed away in July 2017, so about 18 months before. And we exchanged a few words before my wife nudged me innocently, sort of saying, Matt, you know, who are you talking to? And as I turned, as you can imagine, in like, I don't know what state I was in, to just tell her, khorasan, um, when I turned back, my mom had gone. And that was— obviously there's a lot more to how I got into manifestation, which we can explore, but that was like this moment of realization that, um, I wasn't asleep. Um, I was awake, I heard her. This weird thing happened. I don't know why that happened. I've just heard my mum. My mum's dead, she's no longer here, but I've just spoken to her. So that now means and proves— it's my truth, of course— it proves that there is more to life than this physical world, very simply. And that was the veil. Right there.

It's so funny because the reason that I most connected to you when I first read your book was that I had such a similar experience, and that was in 2019 as well, which was very odd. So I felt very connected to you as soon as I started reading. Wow. Basically, my story is I was in the NHS, and basically I was working every day, coming home, not having a penny to pay off debt or anything like that. And I was just so depressed all the time. Like, you know what it's like, the normal 9 to 5 and everything. And my granddad got took to hospital, and on his way to the hospital, he passed away in the ambulance, and he wasn't ill. And there was like loads of questions around it. For the next few months, I felt like a zombie, and I really did feel like a zombie, until the point that someone that I just met suggested that I start and use crystals for the grief. And at first I kind of shrugged it off and I thought, no, no, it's not possible. Like, these are just little rocks, how can they help? And over the next year, I think I accumulated around 200 of my own crystals. And it wasn't until one night I was sat there during the pandemic and I was thinking, how can I help other people and show them the sheer power of crystals as well? And I was trying to think of a little business name, and I love alliteration. Like, I love when there's like, you know, two letters exactly the same. And Straight away I was sat on the couch and all of a sudden my granddad's voice came through clear as day and he said, just gan canny, son. Now, me granddad's proper Geordie, like gan canny means like take it easy, go steady. But I heard that voice clear as day and I remember saying, granddad, like I was so confused as to where that came from. And then again, my partner looked at me and went, what? And it just made me snap out of it.

Wow.

And it was pretty much the same experience that you had with your mom Julie as well. So yeah, it's a very, very surreal thing. So straight away I heard that voice, Gan Cany, and thought, cany crystals.

It's a great—

so it kind of was born from my granddad's death, because if he hadn't have died, it wouldn't have led me down this path, similar probably to, you know, your mom's passing.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, we both needed that, that moment right there. Um, that's an incredible story. I was going to ask you where Cany came from, because it's not a word I'm familiar with.

Wow.

So canny in Newcastle basically means like amazing or great.

I really love it.

Yeah, but it can mean other things. So if someone says like, gun canny, it means like take it easy, go steady, that kind of thing.

Got it. So that's, yeah, that's so interesting. And wow, how synchronistic. But for me, like, I've always been, just so people can piece this together, I've always been that type of person that's always asked like too many questions. Like, in fact, like, my parents used to have a they used to tell me off for asking too many questions as a kid. And, um, I struggled to play as a kid. So for example, like, um, I'd see my brother like lost in play, like playing with a toy car or anything. But for me, I'd be more interested in either breaking apart the car or figuring out how the car even was made, you know. So as you can imagine, like most people who just connect with their mother out of the blue would go, oh, that was a really cool experience, and I don't really know what happened, and perhaps just brush it off and carry on with their life. For me, I was like, Yeah, but how? Like, how did that happen though? And, and, um, and that's never really stopped, to be honest. Like, that, that even to this day, um, like even before this podcast, I'm still going so deep with like quantum mechanics. I'm still like going deeper and deeper, you know. And this is, this is how it's led me to where I am now, you know.

It's a very surreal experience, I think. But yeah, reading through your book, like, what was the one moment or realization that made you think I need to write this book, this needs to be heard? Because obviously the book is called Beyond Wanting, but that wanting phase and the energy of wanting, surely that's the thing that sparks the desire initially, isn't it? So was there a particular experience or pattern that you kept seeing that sparked writing Beyond Wanting?

Yeah, um, I actually understood the concept of wanting way before I'd even found manifestation and even knew what manifestation was. And it was very simple because I tried to connect with my mum again after that first attempt— well, after that first experience, I should say. Um, and we— my wife and I would sort of recreate the scene every night, you know, for a few weeks. We'd be like, right, 10 o'clock, we put the same show on, I lie down, and, you know, and, and nothing happened. Like, nothing happened. And I remember thinking, interesting. I was thinking, like, is wanting doing the opposite here? Like, and then I just— and then I just sort of remember thinking, like, it's really weird because wanting like actually means haven't got. Like, wanting— wanting is the lack of something. When I connected with my mom, I didn't want— like, want— obviously I wanted to, but I didn't try. Yeah, it happened. And then for— honestly, for years, I didn't ever tell the reflexology story because I didn't really think it was relevant. I used to go straight in with the connecting with my mom's story. But then when I was like writing the book and doing a lot more research over the last few years, I realized that the reason connected with my mom was because of how I'd shifted my vibration in those 5 months before. And it was easier for my mom to connect. Like, I've had mediums— and I'm not a medium, right? But I've had mediums tell me that, Matt, we're called mediums because we help people connect in the middle. And like, it, you know, and I understand manifestation is a connection. Like, you know, you have to be on the same frequency of something. Um, and, and, and I, I've been told that it was easier for my mom to connect with me because of that change. So that, that was how wanting started. And then when I discovered manifestation by— as you can imagine, you go from Tony Robbins to Jim Rohn, to all of a sudden you hear Bob Proctor, and then you, then you come across, you know, Esther and Jerry Hicks, then you come across Rhonda Byrne, and then all of a sudden you hear about the law of attraction and Joe Dispenza. And I was like, initially I was like, I don't know if I buy into the fact that I can think positive thoughts and all of a sudden, like, make something manifest. Like, that was very hard for me to grasp because at the time I was like really struggling financially. I was in a lot of debt and I was like, what, am I meant to like think about money and money would just appear? So I struggled with it. However, because of this connection with my mom, I knew what everyone was talking about and I knew that there was this unknown infinite field somewhere that perhaps we could draw from. But I knew that one thing just in the same way that it didn't work when I tried to reconnect with my mom, wanting money would do the same thing. I want money like I want to connect with my mom again, but I can't stay in wanting, otherwise I'll struggle to actually get more money. I have to somehow get back to that same state. I have to then be in the frequency of it, right? And that was my very, like, early days understanding of manifestation. Obviously it's a lot deeper now. But yeah, that's how the whole wanting thing came up. And that's where it led into a book.

I was gonna say, 'cause one of the things that you talk about is the idea that wanting can actually keep people stuck in the very thing that they desire. And it's almost like desire alone can sometimes then reinforce the gap rather than close it. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Do you think that the self-development industry has accidentally created a generation of people who are just obsessed with wanting more, but aren't actually becoming someone different? Because it is all about identity, isn't it?

Yeah, absolutely. Um, it's actually become a big problem. Like, just so people, people are clear if they're listening, um, the paradox is I help you to get everything you want, right? The problem is being in a state of wanting is pushing it further away, right? And actually, to answer that question, which is a great question, what we hear in the self-development industry And if you just think of some names, it's dream big. You've got to have, you've got to have a dream that scares you.

No, that was a great Tony Robbins impression, by the way.

Yeah, right. Right. That's what we hear though. You got to dream big and look, come on. We've all got big dreams. I certainly have, but I don't focus on it. I park it on a bookshelf because I know the science of it. Like, trust me, if you dream smaller, you will manifest faster. So I see manifestation as a sequential unfolding, which is what it is anyway, and to get to what you want. And look, there are some unbelievable quantum physicists and scientists that are studying this work that no one knows because they haven't got social presence. They're not on podcasts, but I'm, I'm the geek that reads their textbooks, right? And when they're— when they are actively practicing intention experiments in labs They're not trying to influence something in a year. They're literally influencing something that can be measured in the moment. So they're looking for measurable effects almost instantaneously, right? But think about it, when we manifest, so many of us are like trying to manifest something quite big, and it's just naturally not— it's because it's not a genie in a bottle. It's not just, oh, all of a sudden, like, here's this thing. It's where we're manifesting from is we can call it the universe. Everyone has a different name for it. I call it the quantum field. It's a unifying field of energy and information that connects all things physical. And in its essence and nature, it's infinite. There's infinite possibility there. And the way— and all physical reality emerges from it. So the way physical reality is created is a collapsing of energy unfolding into physical reality. So it is a process. It is a sequential rendering is what I call it. So that's why I often say, dream big, but then reverse engineer down. And also, by bringing down the desire, you naturally close the gap. So the wanting is naturally less. You know? So, yeah, like, that is exactly right. It is.

It totally makes sense as well, because it's like, when you break down your desires into these bite-sized chunks, it's easier to achieve. It's like trying to jump from the floor to the top of a house, you're not going to be able to do it. But if you had them steps in between, you're going to be able to take step by step and eventually get to the top of the house. I just think that, you know, your work goes deep into identity as well, isn't it? Why do you think identity is such a powerful driver of the reality that we experience? Because I think something that I found really interesting in your work, especially, Matt, is the idea that we don't get what we want we get what we believe we are. Can you unpack that a little bit, please?

Yeah, we don't attract what we want, we attract what we subconsciously believe about ourselves. And so anyone listening right now, I want you to think consciously about what it is that you want. Just, just think of that one, one goal consciously. And then here's what we need to understand about just identity and what identity even means. Is 95% of who we are is subconsciously programmed. It's a set of hardwired subconscious beliefs, habits that is, that have been formed over repetition, and primarily in the first 7 years of our life. You know, my son is 17 months old right now, and I, he's my greatest teacher because there's a— I always was always aware of this saying, show me a boy age 7 and I'll show you the man. You know, and for the first 7 years of a child's life, on average, they're in those, those early brainwaves— delta, theta, and alpha— which is pure subconscious. There is no analytical gatekeeper. That's why they'll believe anything you tell them. So anything that's being conditioned in their environment is being programmed. And by the time the analytical part of the brain comes online, like, it's sort of too late by that point. You know, we're hardwired. The great news is though, we can recondition the brain at any age through repetition. But going back to what I asked everyone to do there is people can have a conscious desire for whatever that life is, but we have to recognize that it represents about 5% of who we are. So the, the identity is the misalignment between conscious desire and subconscious programming, you know. And so, so most people hold that desire, they might visualize it, they might do a meditation, whatever their practice is, and they'll do that consciously, Mark. But then what happens is when they wake up from that practice or get up from that practice and then just sort of plug themselves back into their life, they are running around and operating unconsciously from their subconscious. So what I often say is the dominant manifestor is the program subconsciously, you know. And I know we know on a quantum level what turns possibility to to actual lived physical experience is, is a word called observation, the observer. So, so I always say, well, where's your, where's your observation? Is it wrapped into your conscious desire at all times? And are you fully, fundamentally really being the identity of that conscious future? Or actually, are you just allowing your programs to run the show? Because if you are, then the dominant observer, the dominant broadcaster of, of your reality is your programming. So we have to, from identity, we have to get clear on what we want and then move beyond wanting and fully embody the identity of the version of ourself that exists in our imagination when we have that thing. But that is, for a lot of people, initially hard work because we're up against that program. And that's what I mean by identity.

So there's a big difference as well, I think, between forcing change and becoming someone different at a deeper level. So it's about shifting your identity rather than just trying to push themselves harder. And I think many people intellectually understand the life that they want, yet their behavior just keeps on pulling them back into the same patterns, doesn't it? So what role does the nervous system play in all of that?

Massive. You know, it's, it's, uh, yeah, you know, it's giving clues straight away to, to the brain. And I think, uh, often we have to think about the nervous system, we have to think about the limbic part of our brain. It speaks very holistically, it speaks in feelings and emotions. You know, uh, so it can be quite hard for us to understand sometimes, you know, why we feel— why we feel guilt or why we feel fear. But the key is the voice in the head. Well, there's these brain regions called the, uh, default mode network in the brain, in the left hemisphere of the brain, which is what, like, where, where we understand language and reasoning. And actually, when you hold a conscious desire and then sort of either sit in meditation or go about your day are you aware of the voice in your head that's telling you every reason why you might not succeed? And it's your biggest clue about what your nervous system is telling you, because it's the voice. Like, people think the voice in their head's the problem. No, the voice in the head isn't the problem. The voice in the head is the microphone on behalf of the nervous system and the subconscious. It's because it can't speak like you and I. It's a little bit like, um, you know, a loved one that they merge back as pure consciousness. They don't really have vocal cords anymore, so it's a lot of effort for them to communicate. In our way. So, so that's what the voice in the head is doing. It's communicating on behalf of, of the, of the system. So what I often say is, don't fight the voice, listen to the voice, understand what it's saying. And then from there, like, you've got to— I often say with manifestation, we start with self-observation, meaning that we just step back and listen and feel what's going on. Am I truly aligned with the thing that I seek? If not, why? Okay, well, what conversation is playing in my head? You know, most people though, Mart, identify with the voice in their head. They don't understand that they're not the voice in their head.

Yeah, I think it's about getting curious, isn't it? Do you think that it's possible that some people stay in the personal growth world as well because wanting that life feels safer than actually living it?

Yeah, for sure. Uh, I, I think, you know, there's definitely— and I'll be, I'll be honest, um, you know, I've coached privately hundreds of people, and the real paradox is— and people struggle to understand this— but you, you don't ever actually arrive. It's this really weird thing where sometimes I have to remind my clients that, oh, you've— congratulations, your thing that you want is manifested, because we're constantly on to the next thing. And that's just how the programming works. It's, it's designed to keep us alive and keep us safe. And the biggest problem with manifestation is, is, is that people strive for a destination when actually it's, it's the journey. So I, I think you're right there with what you've just said, but I always say the man who loves walking walks further than the man who loves the destination. So, um, get clear on what it is that you seek, but fall in love with the journey, you know.

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acast.com/advertise. Love that. So when someone is stuck in that loop of wanting more, but not actually moving into it, what do you think are the first signs that you tend to notice in your own clients and customers in how they think or behave?

Two things. Firstly, they are— they're too obsessed with the— firstly, the outcome that they're striving for. So what they're doing is they're, um, they are— they're holding back their happiness or whatever it is until that thing firstly manifests. So they're living in a state of lack primarily. They're waiting for the thing to happen to then celebrate that outcome, and that, that keeps them in that state straight away. Um, and secondly, I suppose they're not prepared to do the boring work as well, which is, you know, uh, you know, we get clear on what it is that we want, and then we, we quite literally figure out who is the version of us that exists in our imagination when we have it, and how do we need to change. And, and that's— I don't— that's what I think people are stuck in, you know. They're, they're waiting to live, or they're waiting for permission to live this dream life when this thing that they seek finally comes, but it never works like that.

Yeah.

You know, uh, and that, that's what I see. So people aren't prepared to change first, and it, and it's, it, to get what you want, you have to change first. The simple analogy that I always give is if you imagine standing in front of a mirror, a physical mirror, and you, you look into that mirror with a, with a sad face, uh, you'd agree, Mark, that you'd obviously see a sad face in, in the reflection, right? Um, but most people are waiting to see a smile in the reflection to then be happy.

Yeah.

And we, we know that it just doesn't work like that, right? We— if we want to see a smile in the reflection, well, we've got to smile first, and then we see the reflection. And I think what people struggle to realize is that that's manifestation. You know, you have— if you want happiness, you sort of have to smile first. And that's exactly where people get stuck, that they're— they think that they have to arrive somewhere to then change, and it's not. And, and look, I'll be honest, that is very hard to grasp though, what I'm saying tangibly. Like, even I understood that intellectually but still struggled to embody it because it was like, okay, well, I'm in debt, a lot of debt, I'm struggling, I'm like paycheck to paycheck every month, um, how am I meant to pretend that I'm abundant and that I'm free? When I'm not. And I really didn't like the whole concept of like faking it till you make it, and I'm absolutely not telling people to do that. Where meditation is so powerful is understanding the brain and understanding that when we can slow down that brain, that voice, the analytical part of our brain, the gatekeeper, when we can come out of the busy beta brainwaves and come down to alpha and theta, we're highly suggestible. Uh, that is the perfect landscape to recondition identity and recondition the subconscious. But more importantly, there you strike a vision for whatever it is that you seek. You are living it there. The, the body and brain subconsciously does not know the difference scientifically between a dream and a vision. It doesn't. So if you were to visualize that thing that you seek, you are going to feel abundant, you are going to feel free. And people aren't doing that enough either. You know. And when you do that is exactly when life changes and you start to see opportunities and synchronicities, and then you feel like you're moving. You see, it's this trap.

I think something that I personally struggled with when I first started getting into spirituality and self-development was the fear of outgrowing who I was, because I was so familiar with that life and it just felt comfortable to me. But I was stuck in that comfort that getting uncomfortable and feeling that discomfort just wasn't me, and I was pushing it to the side all the time. Did you see any of that in your own journey when developing your business and your new book?

Yeah, and I still do to this day. Do you?

Oh yeah, God, yeah, all the time.

All the time, right? I'm terrified often, I'll be honest, authentically, you know, and that's because two things are happening. What's terrified is the program. Okay. So let me give you a tangible example of why this often gets easier, but never really goes. That's the change. You know, so next month, for example, in Stockholm, I'll be speaking on stage all day to potentially 400 people, you know, partnered with the same company that helped Jodie Spencer with all his events and the program is uncomfortable with that. You know, I, I've done keynotes for an hour. I did a workshop in New York last year for 3 days to a smaller crowd, but to do 400 people and hold it a whole day myself, like, I'd be lying to you, Mark, if I said to you that there's a part of me that doesn't feel uncomfortable. But consciously, from a soul level, I absolutely know that's the direction of where I need to go. So I'm not fighting it, I'm just very interested at understanding what's happening. And the reason that's happening, and I've experienced, I'm sure you have in every stage, is that it just doesn't know that future yet. Yeah, you know, it feels uncomfortable and unfamiliar because it's not lived it yet. So when you understand the conditioning and the programming is primarily an animal, it is an animal, and it's job is to keep you in that, in that cave and keep you safe. Anything that doesn't exist in that cave is a threat.

Yeah.

Now the reason it's got easier and is easier now for me as well is because what I'll do in anticipation for change is I will rehearse in meditation being there and doing that, and I'll start conditioning my animal to actually believe that I've already done it, right? So, so, but I'm aware of it. There's an essence of it still, right?

Yeah.

But the moment you do it, as you know, the moment you step up and live it and you do it, you go, oh, that wasn't as bad as, as I thought it was. And then all of a sudden that becomes your new baseline, you know. And I think people are paralyzed by that without understanding that it's primarily human and we all experience it. But you have to resonate with it. You have to understand it. And just to finish, that great question was knowing that what we cannot see, um, with our sense data— the unknown, the void, the universe, the future— exists in what's called superposition. And that, that is an infinite intelligence of information that we can't see. It represents about 99.999999% of reality. We only see the part of reality that we're plugged into, represents zero, less than 0.01%. So the program operates in that sliver. And whenever I feel afraid, whenever I'm aware of the programming, I'll say to myself, what would I rather trust? Would I rather trust something that's almost 100% of reality, or this tiny sliver? And I know the future that perhaps scares me exists in the void, in the unknown. And it's just this great reframe for me, always to just keep leaning in and leaning in, because it's never actually let me down.

I think one of the things that I love about you is that you go so deep in with the science and you just, you break it down. Like, the inner nerd in me just absolutely loves it, Matt, honestly. I think in the book as well, in Beyond Wanting, there are a few different things that I'd never even heard of before. So the collapse the wave function, for example. Yeah, I love that concept. Would you mind explaining that to my listeners?

Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, it's mind-blowing, isn't it? So Um, I have a— yeah, thank you for saying that, because I think I've always had a natural way of learning the complex and then regurgitating it in just a simple way for me to understand, and then I think everyone else does. So, so, so when I first connected with my mom, this is how I found it, right? I wanted to understand more of what reality was, and I think I'd quite— I'd authentically forgotten perhaps what I'd forgotten at school or not listened to, and, and that was actually that It's an illusion to believe anything is physically real, like in terms of it looks real, but it's not. We're not even really touching anything either, which is a whole nother story. There's negatively charged electrons that repel against each other, which give us a sensation of touch, right? But anyway, if we take anything like this microphone, our human body, it looks very real, and we were to get a superpowered microscope and zoom right in, we initially If we keep going deeper and deeper and deeper, we'll arrive at the atomic level. So atoms. And atoms, Mart, are firstly, let's just talk about that. They're very, very predictable. And what that means is when scientists are observing, looking at atoms, they move around and behave in the same way that you and I do. If I wanted to follow you, Mart, I would quite literally see you moving around space, wouldn't I? I'd see you moving around your room and out, and I'd be able to see that. You wouldn't disappear if I'm following you. Yeah. And that's how atoms work. They're very predictable. And the further the space, the longer the time. That's why if you get in a plane from Heathrow to JFK, it's shorter than Heathrow to LAX, because there's more space in between. Very simple.

Yeah.

You know, and that plane is made of atoms, right? Now the question is, what is the atom made of itself though? Okay. So when we— when— not me, but when scientists break open an atom, we get to, uh, a smaller, smaller particles of reality called subatomic particles. So sub is below the atom. And I'm just going to call— I'm just going to pick one. I'm just going to call it the electron. Now, what's mind-blowing, fascinating about the subatomic world— remember that these are the same particles that make the atom and make you and I and everything else. They don't behave in the same way. So they exist everywhere until you observe them. So when, when scientists are looking or observing or measuring the electron, it will appear in one state when they're observing it. The moment observation of any kind, or a measurement like a camera, is taken away from looking at that electron, it disappears, right? And if that measurement or camera or observation moves somewhere else, instead of that electron moving through space like you, it disappears and instantaneously magically reappears. Doesn't matter how far the space is. So if observation moves again, disappears and instantaneously reappears. So what's happening there is when observation is taken away from the electron it goes back to where it's from. And where it's from is the quantum field, the unified field. And that field is pure energy information. And collapse of the wave means that that field of energy is also known as the wave. Yeah, yeah. If you think of a wave— like, I live in Cornwall, so it's a wave, is all connected. So the moment an electron becomes a wave again, it connects with everything in that field. The moment observation occurs, part of that wave of energy will collapse into that single point called the electron. So the reason this is so powerful is because what, what quantum mechanics confirms is that observation is drawing from and collapsing this wave of energy, so it turns from energy to the particle. So, Mark The reason I included that is because most people's observation is rooted in lack, rooted in what they haven't got, rooted in patterns, programming. And whenever I work with a client who fully gets this and they catch themselves falling unconscious, they catch their voice in their head and they regain that power, that observation, and they start observing a new future, they start rehearsing in meditation their life. Well, what's going to happen is this wave of infinite possibility will collapse, and the collapsing from wave to particle is the manifestation happening. And it is normally a spill of wave to particle. And that's why there's like— I call them breadcrumbs. We have to follow the breadcrumbs, you know. That's why it's not a genie in a bottle granting wishes, although sometimes Absolutely does feel like that. But that is, that is the observer effect that not many people talk about in manifestation.

I was just about to say that was the part of the book that I was most fascinated with, and it was quite early on in the book as well. And I remember just being like, it just, it just blew my mind because I've never heard it explained like that. I think I've watched like a YouTube video on it years ago when I was really trying to dig deep into quantum physics, but it really gives you a headache when you watch too much about it. You can only take in so much. But it was that and the metacognition talk as well. Yeah, I love that. Was there a chapter in the book or an idea in the book even that felt especially important for you to share because you feel that people maybe misunderstood that area of personal growth?

It's a great question, isn't it? I think, yeah, the metacognition part, which is, which means to think about what you're thinking about, just to tie that in. You know, it's so important to tie in that with what I've just said, because when you realise that there's a voice that's permanently speaking, and it normally speaks, Mart, in idle mode. And idle mode is when you're not focused on a task. So, if you imagine you and I, we're typing on our computer. The moment we step away, what tends to happen is like a screensaver will come up. So, when we're all in focused work or we're focusing on something, think. We're not aware of that voice that's telling us every reason why we won't succeed and why we're a failure, whatever else. The voice tends to come online when, when we're in idle mode, when the screensaver's on. So when we're going for a walk, when we're pondering, when we're in the shower, like whatever, that's what comes on. So, so that's fundamental. If people understand those two points, they can control their life. Because when you realize you're not your thoughts and you are the observer, if you're not practicing that separation, the observer actually sits and is the voice in your head and is the programming, and that is what's manifesting. In terms of other parts of the book, you know, like I said at the beginning, I really wrote the book for the version of me that was struggling, because I know that that version of Matt's still out there, you know. And it's the book that I, you know, I've drawn from loads of different research, as you can imagine. I think another point in the book— and there's some, there is some really interesting parts for sure, I'm just trying to think what most resonate here. So we all talk about— here's another one actually, which I think people will resonate with. We all talk about being positive and visualizing your future. Yeah. But what I found extremely fascinating about the most decorated Olympian of all times, time, Michael Phelps, the swimmer, was that from a young age, his coach taught him how to visualize. His coach, Bob Bowman, taught him how to slow down his brain and visualize. So Michael Phelps was very, very good at rehearsing all his races hundreds of times before he'd swim. And he did very well from that because his brain, he'd conditioned his brain to believe and his body to believe that he'd already done this hundreds of times, and hence why he used to win so many. But what he always also used to do, Mart, was rehearse things potentially going wrong. Now that when I, I didn't expect to discover that when I was researching Phelps. I just knew he was good visualizing. I didn't think he'd start talking about negative things going wrong. And it was interesting because he was like, as a professional swimmer, the odds are that occasionally things can go wrong. So your goggles can break. Yeah, yeah, you, your suit can rip, like things can happen. So he'd also visualize swimming blind just in case, like, his goggles broke. And in the 2008 men's butterfly final, he dived in and his goggles broke. And any normal person perhaps would go, well, my goggles have broken, I can't swim, I'm out. But he'd rehearsed it so many times, he closed his eyes and carried on swimming blind. And he didn't just, like, finish the race, he won and set a new world record, you know, swimming blind. And the reason I share that is because the truth is, Mark, we live in what's called a probabilistic universe, okay? The, the physical reality isn't fixed. Right now, as I'm speaking, I'm in my garden in my home office. Things are moving around outside. There's leaves blowing, there's trees moving around in the wind, like It's not fixed, right? It's probabilistic. And the way that the world outside of here is moving is based on the most probable scenario. So, the reason that wind went across my office like that is because of the way the wind is currently blowing. Yeah? So, right now, people can be in environments and situations where probably things can go wrong, right? So for example, someone can be the best manifester, but if they're in a toxic relationship or a horrible working environment, they can't manifest that this boss changes because this boss has free will. Yeah. So probably the boss will be horrible again, or, you know, you know. So, so what we can do is we can also rehearse how we're going to be in those scenarios. And that gives people so much power because I think people think that they're failing with manifestation if things like that go wrong, when the truth is the reality is probabilistic. Yeah, you know, and I think that's really powerful to say.

So if someone listening today is feeling stuck in that cycle of wanting more but not actually seeing any change in their life, like what part of the book would you tell them to pay closest attention to?

Chapters 3, 4, and 5. And 3, 4, and 5 is self-observation and then the whole vision and belief. So, so you've got to start with firstly who you're being, you know. If people are struggling, I want them to pull back even more and really understand what's going on, you know. Have you truly become that detective and understanding the voice in your head, how you feel, the blocks, right? Um, and then the whole chapter on, um, you know, getting clear on your vision and really rehearsing it. And there I really help people understand to, to simplify, you know, reverse engineer. As we've already discussed, the further out the objective sort and the further away it departs from your existing reality, the more time the universal hologram will need to reorient your sphere. Now that really means that if you haven't simplified that manifestation down, I can bet you're going to feel overwhelmed. I can bet you're going to feel like nothing's happening, for sure, you know. So that is, that is 100% what I'd recommend. Obviously read it sequentially, it's designed to be read sequentially, but those primarily, those 3 chapters there are going to really help with, with if people are stuck, for sure.

Amazing. Thank you for that. And just before I head into my last question, can I just get real with you for a minute? Because I know you were mentioning earlier, yourself and Corisande have your beautiful little boy Humphrey, who is 17 months, did you say?

Yes. Yeah.

How are you finding fatherhood? Because right now I feel like my little boy is 26 months and he is trying to kill me on the daily. I feel as though I struggle with my manifestations right now purely because My nervous system is on high alert 24/7. How do you manage your child and your nervous system and how do you get that healthy balance?

Yeah, it's such a— wow, what a great question. Yeah, I don't think anything prepares you for being a father, does it? And like, you know, balance, I suppose. But the honest truth is I'm My wife and I— let me just talk you through what we do, I suppose, because that will really help. So before we had our son, you know, of course we'd have more time, and, you know, I'd sit down and sometimes I'd meditate for an hour, and I could like fully lose myself in, in, in it. The reality is right now, uh, he wakes us up sometimes from 4 AM, 5 AM, and I'll, and I'll come outside first, and, you know, I'll come to, to, to, to my studio, our studio, and, and I'll have an hour here. And this hour is meditation, journaling, gratitude, working out, and it's, it's an hour. And then, and then we'll play relay, and then we'll swap, and then my wife will come in and she'll have her hour. And we do that religiously every single morning. The truth is, that's not really the work though. The— and I said that anyway, like, being a father or not, that is just like setting me up for the day. And it's really important that we both do that. And by that point, neither of us have like checked our phone, our emails, or anything else. And then what we say is, we always say like, who are we going to be today? So what type of father am I going to be today? What type of husband am I going to be today? And just know that my son, who's now a toddler, and he's a million miles an hour, and you know, he'll scream on the floor and whatever else, like he's going to test me and he's going to test my wife. It's just, can we be conscious though? Can we be conscious of the trigger and can we bring ourselves back? And I think you get, with this work, you get better at knowing when you've been triggered, whether it's your toddler or whether it's anything else, bringing yourself back to the baseline and just knowing that it's okay. Sometimes like your nervous system is going to be shot. You are going to be tired. You are going to find it really hard. But, but I would say that they are your best teacher when it comes to this work, because the fascinating thing with toddlers or kids in general is, and you can resonate with yours being 26 months, 26 months. And Humphrey and your son, they are only in the present moment. Yeah, they have no ability to be anywhere else. They can't daydream, they can't think forward, and they can't dwell on the past. They're only here right now. And I'll be honest, since having Humphrey, I— my manifestation understanding has gone to another level, uh, because you can learn so much from them. And sometimes I just think, you know what, manifestation, where we're manifesting from, doesn't exist in the future. It is here. This field of possibility is here now, in the moment. The foundation of manifestation is the present moment. So sometimes if I'm willing to just connect with Humphrey, um, um, um, you know, in the present moment. Another trick that I do, which someone asked me the other day, and I— consistency for sure is something I'm very good at, but I call, I call it the signal-to-noise ratio. And what that is, is every single day I will write down 5 things maximum that are mission critical for like what I'm achieving and that have to be, ideally have to be done within the next 24 to 48 hours. Anything else is noise. And I, and I honestly, I'm so religious with that because the moment the signal's done, I can then guilt-free mess around with Humphrey in the garden and do whatever else. And I think so many of us, if we're not clear on the signal, there is too much noise, Mark.

Yeah.

And we get distracted by things. And, you know, so, so since having Humphrey, I've become very good at being clear on what signal and what's noise, because where you place your attention is where you place your energy, right?

It puts everything into perspective, I think, as well, doesn't it? Especially when they're that young and they require so much attention from you. It's like you have to prioritise your workload and you have to prioritise your home life because it's a huge life change, isn't it? Is Humphrey walking yet? Yes.

Yeah, he started walking at 9 months. Yeah, he's—

wow.

I mean, he's so— I mean, I know every parent will say this about their own, so, but he is like very intelligent. Like, he'll do— he does things already. And I'm like, I didn't even think of that, you know, like, just so— but so he's, he's, he's a really good teacher for sure, a very, very good teacher. I've actually got a really good analogy quickly about toddlers, um, that anyone can relate to. So this, this— everything I've spoken about here, there's primarily two problems that people struggle with when it comes to manifestation. The first is interference and the second is signal. And I want to give everyone an understanding of what I mean by that. I want everyone to imagine that they have their phone and they're gonna send a text message or a WhatsApp to someone. So imagine you type in this message, this important message that you know this person needs to get, and you type in on WhatsApp and at the same time, Mart, your toddler keeps coming and grabbing your phone, grabbing your phone, grabbing your phone.

That's a daily occurrence. He does that everywhere.

Or comes over and does this on your phone and like literally like you're like, ah, like it's literally like in the end you either send the message, don't send the message or send a message with there's so many typos on there and you're just like, you, you resonate with that. Everyone else who possibly either will or won't, I want you to know that the toddler is your, is your analytical brain, it's the voice in your head. So when people try and meditate, Mart, they don't slow down enough, meaning that when they slow down a little bit, the toddler's there. So you're holding this message of, this is my manifestation,, but the toddler's coming in and messing it around and, you know, tapping the screen. So, so, so the message will either never get sent or get sent improperly, incoherently. Yeah. And imagine the friend is the universe. Yeah. I imagine everyone solves that. The toddler's asleep. You've slowed down in meditation. You can go really deep. And when you go really deep in meditation, there's no noise, right? So now what happens when you're really deep is you can now hold this vision cleanly. So there's now no interference. But I want everyone to imagine now, and everyone knows a place where you can have the best phone in the world, you can write the cleanest message, but if you've got no signal, that message will never get sent. Where I live here, without the internet, I could never send a message, right? Yeah, so, so you can have the cleanest, uh, mind, but if you haven't got the cleanest signal, the message will never get sent. And the signal is the subconscious. It's the resistance from the subconscious. You can slow down your brain and you can hold the cleanest message, but if you can't recondition that brain, if you can't feel it emotionally, that subconscious will resist. It will be a wall and it will block that signal going out.

Right? I love that.

So the key is, uh, get rid of the interference and create a clean signal where there's service. And one of the reasons people struggle so much is because they're not willing to do the inner work, which is the boring work, which is to really, really try and clear those blocks. Yeah. And the great news is, um, and I've done it myself, is at any age you can recondition your brain. Whatever block, whatever trauma you've got, you can recondition it. And the art is to, to align them, the thought with the feeling, and, and then the message can get sent very cleanly.

I love that answer, Matt. Thank you so much. That analogy was amazing. And finally, I announced last week as well that you're going to be speaking at Manifest 2026 this year, aren't you? So What can attendees expect when you get up on that stage? Do you know what you'd be talking about yet?

I, yeah, I, I love— I'll be talking about the power of intention. And, you know, intention is— intention modifies probability. And what that really means is if you're clear on your intent— and we'll dive into what I've said here, there's a few more things that I haven't shared that I'll share on stage— and just the power of a clear intention and what that does. And, you know, I'd love everyone to really feel it Um, there'll be, there'll be a section in my talk where we perhaps do a meditation together as well, so everyone can really feel, uh, feel into intention. And yeah, it's going to be a deep dive. There's a lot in an hour, and I like to just get into a state where I, I call it channel, but you know, when we're in the flow state, you know, I don't read from slides. I just like to get there, connect with the audience, and just— but it will be all to do with intention.

I'm really excited to hear that. Matt Cook, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. It's been an absolute pleasure to learn from you, and I'm sure that my audience will feel exactly the same. Where can everyone find you online?

Yes, thank you very much for everyone listening. Matt Cook Coach on everywhere. TikTok, Instagram, YouTube. And yeah, if you go there, you'll see all my work.

Amazing. For anyone listening at home as well, please do go and buy a copy of Matt's new book, Beyond Wanting. I have given this book to so many of my friends and they're all loving it. I'll pop the link to that as well as Matt's website and his social media in the show notes for today's episode. If you've enjoyed this chat, please do go and share with your friends via a Facebook group or a WhatsApp group. Please rate, review, subscribe, and I'll see you all next Friday for another episode. Have an incredible week ahead, everyone. Bye!

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