1:1 Sales Coaching Session With 7 Figure Closer

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You listen and review. Put that coffee down. All right, guys, so Matt here from Coffees for Closers and we're here with Jeff. So Jeff is one of my one on one sales coaching clients. And a little bit of a different episode today. What we're going to do is actually this is going to be his coaching session. I'll give a. I'll get Jeff to do just a quick intro. And this is pretty early days. This is like our second session, third session, something like that.

Jeff, second. Yeah.

Yeah, man. So tell us just a little bit about yourself and why you sort of came to get coaching and then from there we'll get stuck into it.

Sure. So my background is sales, sort of for the last 12 or 15 years anyway. And that was mostly corporate stuff and high ticket financial packages and different bits and pieces like that. Got real close to burnout a couple of times doing that and had a conversation with my wife and said, I'm done. I'm kind of through with this whole, you know, someone else's foot on the back of my neck and nothing but a cash cow and all that kind of shit that everybody puts up with in the corporate world. And bizarrely, saw a Dan Lok Sifu, the Sifu himself in the crimpoline suit. Yeah. And I saw one of his ads on YouTube and. Which was enough for me to sort of get the spark. I didn't, I didn't do his HTC program, but it was enough for me to go, oh, shit. So people do this like from home. Okay. And that was it. I took a deep dive into the, into the world of. Into the world of online. I've done some stuff online previously. I've done some sort of SEO stuff and I've all that kind of bits and pieces. So I've been around the Internet marketing industry for a little while and so I already had some connections there and, you know, reached out to a couple of people and made some suggestions and they said, if you want to do it, you commission only then I'm prepared to send you some leads based on your background. And here we are.

Awesome, man. And you're currently selling a really cool offer. We won't say who it is, but it's like a YouTube coaching offer.

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah. Awesome, man. And what made you want to get coaching?

I'm always looking to level up. I'm always looking to sharpen the ax in anything I've ever done. I've never been okay with just being okay. It's not enough for me. And I had a. I had a conversation with my son based on the same thing, and he said he was talking to me about earning potential and all of this kind of stuff. And I said, I said, that's great, but that comes as a byproduct of just focusing on being the absolute best you can possibly be. And for me, as kind of, you know, woo, woo as that sounds, that is genuinely where it's at. So I will always try to improve. There's always going to be a tweak. There's always going to be a refinement somewhere that I can use. So, yeah, that's the reason for getting coach. Indeed.

Okay, awesome. And how's it been over the last, like, sort of 10 days since we put in the new structure?

Massive change, Massive difference. I really, really feel like I've got some of the tools that I felt I needed. I had some of the words, but. And I'm sure people will be able to relate sometimes when you're trying to say those words when you're working off a script, because you have to work off a script, not verbatim, but just to give you some structure. Sometimes you're saying things and it feels like you've got a mouthful of marbles. Right? You're just like, oh, God, that just doesn't sound. Just doesn't sound right. And I knew there was more finesse and nuance that could. That could come as a result of tapping into different people's structures. So for me, that, that would be the biggest change is actually finding a way to deliver those questions. That doesn't sound like I've got a gob full of marbles. It's more me. It fits with my personality and. And it just sounds more natural and it. And it's. And I'm. The. The results I'm getting from those questions are off the chain. Like, I could struggle previously sometimes to be able to really get somebody's pain. I don't struggle to get anybody's pain. Now everybody's giving me their pain and they're like, spewing pain at me. They can't wait.

Just word vomiting.

Just absolutely puking pain from every orifice. It's great.

Nice one. All right, cool. Yeah. Because you got a bunch of paid in fulls, so that's good.

Yeah, yeah. And a bunch of loaded deposits. People so, you know, went through the objection handling matrix and, and you know, handled the logistical first and for a few of them it just was logistical. So managed to get, you know, non refundable deposits in place and you know, so. Yeah, and I know, I know 100%. Some of those closes and some of those deposits wouldn't have happened without, without some of this structure and some of this framework.

As long as the account holder is happy and you're making more money. That's, that's what I want about. Let's just get into the coaching side of things because that's what you're here for. I'm selfishly turning this into a podcast.

Um, it's good.

What are on today, guys? Yeah, we're going to just go through an actual coaching session. So this is just going to be an audio. There'll be no video component to this. So just me and Jeff are on video. So I've got Jeff script up. So what we'll kind of go through is like, I just kind of want to find out, man, like, what are you, what are you struggling with at the moment and like, like, like, what do we need to work on today to get the most amount of value? Because I spoke to Jimmy, I know you've been doing some stuff with him, and he was like, man, the structure you got is fucking spot on. So it looks like you got to kind of got everything. We haven't really got to the pitch yet. So where do you think you need to kind of work on and what can we build out?

The pitch is probably one of the areas I'm most comfortable with. I mean, I don't. I feel like I've got that fairly dialed in. I tell you where I think I need, I need a bit of help. Still is being able to separate avatars because like I said, we've got three, three main avatars. One of the main avatars that we have is somebody that's never done anything before. So it's almost like they don't know what they don't know.

Yeah.

With somebody that's already got a business running, you can say, well, how long have you been doing it like that and why did you take that approach? And how many leads are you getting and you can chunk it down and sort of blow it up for them, but somebody that's new, they. You don't have any of that. So I would love a structure and A framework to be able to approach those people that have. That have never done anything.

Yeah, for sure. So we revert back to the macro. Okay. So whenever you're in that situation, you just go back to the top. Right. And what I mean by that is you go out to the broadest possible category you could do, which is what do you do right now for revenue? What do you do for income? I'm a police officer. Okay, that makes sense. And how long have you been doing that? Okay, perfect. Do you like the job you have now? Well, yeah, I do. Well, what, like, like, like, what do you like about it? Well, I like this and this and this. Okay. Okay. Well, it sounds like it's going fairly well for you, I suppose. Is there anything you would change about your job if you could? Well, yeah, I just hate the fact that I have a boss and then I have to work for this and I have to work these hours and I have someone's foot on the back of my throat. Okay, like, what do you mean by that? You know what I mean? And then we just. We just change it to almost like a biz op sale.

Yeah.

Right. So we're trying to establish that they're not happy with their current way of income. And then what we can do is we can even like, take them down the garden path to the point where we ask them about what kind of the money that they make. And then you can even start to go back up to the top, you know what I mean? And then sort of go like, okay, well, like, do you like the plan you have now to transition out of your current job and into coaching full time? No, I don't. Okay. So, you know, like, you just go back out, zoom out, and then start to zoom back in really slowly because, like, essentially those people, like, it's exactly how you would sell someone into, like an mlm. Not that I'm advocating selling people into an mlm, but those people. Those people have got. It's a. It's a biz op. Right. Business opportunity. Right. So essentially you're selling people on how to create their own business opportunity. Right, Right. Because you're selling coaching on how to do that. So there's very little difference in how you would actually sell that. Right. Because it's about understanding what they don't like about what they're currently doing in the situation that they're currently in.

Perfect.

And then from there it's just. So it's super easy. Yeah, but people get caught in the weeds because they try and find a problem in the specifics. But it doesn't matter. It's just go straight back out, then tunnel back in.

Right, right.

And that's what you do, like, whenever there's any kind of problem and, like, you're struggling to kind of find the pain or the reason or whatever. You just go straight back out to the macro and then try and focus back in. And that's how, like, today I was on a sales call with a guy, and they're doing. Man, they're doing like $2 million a week, right? And I'm trying to sell sales training to their team, right? And it's like, that's not an easy sell because they're closing at, like, 48% solar. So it's really good. So I was just digging around. I'll just like, I'll send you the coal. I was just digging for different things, and I just kept going back out. So I just went, well, what are you doing for lead generation right now? They're like, oh, we do this and this and this. And I was like, okay. And what are your. So your sales reps are just being fed warm leads? Yeah. I was like, and you don't do any cold calling or door knocking? They're like, no. I was like, okay. Some particular reason why not? All the guys hate it. I go, okay. So they just sit there like little baby birds saying, give me warm leads. And then he's like, well, yeah. I go, okay, how did you do it when you started the business? I cold called and door knocked. I was like, okay, what happens if the Internet shuts down for a week? He's like, fuck, that's a good point, man. I was like, yeah. So I just went all the way back, and then now I found a problem he didn't know he had, which is that he needs to get his guys good at door knocking and cold calling. Because right now he just buys leads.

Right?

Right. So he didn't have a problem until I found it.

Yeah.

And then the whole. The whole. The whole thing then was around building urgency, around like, what if this shit goes wrong? And how do we build a team of killers who are out there hunting and gathering? You know? And he was like, fuck, you know what? You're right. These bitches. These little bitches are just sitting here. And he hated his sales team. By end of the call, he fucking hated him.

People losing job this morning.

Yeah, Fuck him. He's like, yeah. He started writing out, like, wanted ads and shit. Like, he was. He was like, looking for Hunter. Yeah. So, like, I've Got another call with him and the rest. Because that'll be a big deal. My wife, she's super hot. Yeah. So, yeah, that'll. That'll be a big deal. That'll be like, you know, 50, 60 grand down, plus, you know, a few, like, eight, $9,000 a month retainer. Right. So, like, I had to make sure that I found a significant problem, you know, and so I'll send you that call. So it's just really about, like, you just kind of got to have a few different avenues that you can kind of go.

They've been useful as well. Dude. Those calls have been really useful. Just seeing how you break it down and how you. How you frame things and everything like that. I must have listened to the calls that you sent me already, like 10 times each call, just going through and making notes and going through and making notes and just building up, you know, that. That kind of.

Are you setting any hooks throughout the situation phase?

And the problem when you say setting.

Hooks, are you setting an anchor that you can use for later? Like, you know, like. Because there's different anchors that we can use. Yeah.

Like when you're on the call with a salesperson saying something like, yeah, well, obviously, you know, the purpose of getting coaching is so that you're congruent, so that you don't get that you don't get that pushback on your calls. No, I haven't yet, but. But that is definitely something I want to incorporate for sure.

It's probably something that we want to incorporate just because it, like, it makes your objection handling so much easier and like, you're going to. Objection handle. It's just until you've been doing this for 10 years this way and you can figure out how to pre handle all of them. But I haven't figured it out. So just be a savage objection handling. So, like, you've got the three different avatars. So what we want to do is distinguish a hook for each one.

Yep.

Right. So Avatar 1 is like the guy that's never done anything.

Yeah.

Right. So that person is not currently acting. Right. So we need to set like a hesitation frame like we need to. Because that's their biggest problem. Right. Like, they're hesitating. They're not starting what they need to start. So, like, there's a couple different ways you can do that. One, if they're a parent, that's a really good one because you want to be a good example. You want to show that you set goals and that you get after it. Right. Also, if they Want to be a coach? You can just talk about that. You know what I mean? Like, you know. Oh, yeah. I love working with people who want to be coaches because there's that, like, there's that kind of. There's that need to act within coaches, you know? That's why you want to coach. You want to help people act, right? Yes. Sweet. Perfect. Done. Right, Nice. So now there's a need to act. And they go, yeah, man. Like, I just love helping people get through their stuff. Like, yeah, sweet. Okay, you're done. Right. I win, like, right there, right?

Give me your credit card.

Yeah. Might as well just give me the first 15 digits now. You can just do the last one at the end, right? Yeah. And then we've got, like. So that. That's. That's the one we can set up. Right. It's like people who want to be coaches, so just have to kind of. You just have to go to write it out, flesh it out, listen to a few of your calls of that particular type of avatar and see where you can work it in. But generally, it's like, when you talk about the people who they want to sell. So you might have a little blurb in there about, like, well, like, who do you want to be selling? What's your client niche? Perfect. Yeah. Those people really need help with this. Right? It's, like, awesome. Then you got the people who are like, a coach but, like, not doing great.

Yep.

So for that, I would set up that congruency framework exactly how I do it in those other ones where it's like, lay the hook. Coaches need to be congruent in speech of action. That's why I love working with coaches. And the third avatar would be guys who are crushing it, right?

Yeah. Like, people that are doing, you know, 100k a month and want to scale but can't. Yep.

Yeah. So that's when you've got a set. So that's when it's like, the comfort is a motherfucker. That's when you've got to use, like, the, like, what's the demon under the stairs type analogy. Right. So you can set the congruency hook. Right. Because they still need that. But then you're going to know that if, like, it's like something like 100k a month's pretty good, you know, so it's like, it's comfortable, but, like, you know, 100k a month can be a lot of different things. That can be 50k a month revenue like, like in your pocket, or it can be a Thousand dollars in your pocket. Right? So as well, you want to get real with the numbers as well.

Get specifics on the numbers. Yeah.

So I would say like, okay, that makes sense. And then also you want to kind of question it. So like when someone tells me a hundred K a month, I'll be like, okay, cool. And like how much is your product? All right, cool. How many leads do you get? Sweet. How many sales do you make? And sometimes those numbers don't make sense.

Yeah, right.

You know, and then you're like, okay, so do you have like an MRR system? Like, no, no, we just sell up front. You know, we just take the cash. I was like, okay, well you're only doing 40k in revenue. Where's the hundred? Sometimes you get like marketing agencies that include the ad spend of their client. Right. So I had a guy tell me he's doing 100k a month. And I was like, okay. And I was like, this guy's full of shit for sure. So just started asking some questions because he wanted us to do his sales. And I was like, he's kind of a dick, so I don't want to do it anyway. And I was just asking him questions. Turns out, like, that's including the ad spend for his clients. And that's a smart way of doing it. You put it on your Amex, you end up with like 4 million points at the end of the year. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's a great way of doing it. But I cut.

He's doing 35,000 gross on that.

Well, that's the gross of what he's actually billing the rest of its ad spend.

Right. So his net after expenses and insurance and everything like that, that's probably like 12, 3, 8 of fuck. Oh, yeah, right.

Yeah. You know, so like, okay, great, man, you have a job, you know what on, you know, so yeah, so I could just get through the information so you can start to make more sense now. If I was trying to sell that guy, I'd just be like, okay, that makes sense. So this like, okay, so this is what your kind of take home revenue is like. They're like, yeah, okay, that makes sense. So now you can just like that 100k a month is bullshit. Yeah, right. Like, you know, so then you can just. Okay, so. And then you just talk about they're 18.

Yeah. Because half the problem is when they're writing 100k a month, like in their head, they almost. Some of these people, and I've spoken to them, they get to the Point where they've told themselves they're making 100k a month, you know, so they're paying for. Yeah, I need your payment plan.

Thought you were born gone, bro.

Right, 100k a month now.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

It's all well and good until you have to pay. I just. I had a check in and a savings, and I got to move money around, and it's going to take three business days and. Shut up. Right. So, yeah. So really understanding and like breaking those numbers down and then. And then you can just put them back into the guys who are doing okay, Mark. Right.

Yeah.

And then you got the guys who are really killing it. I mean, that's when you got to like, what's the demon Understairs? So the analogy that I use for that is like, I think I might have told you. It's like the. It's the. It's the house on fire versus the ice cream truck.

Ice cream truck. I used that the other day. That's killer.

It's such a good analogy. I don't even know where I made it up. I don't know where I heard it. Somewhere. Yeah. So if you. Like, when you're doing your consequence questions, you don't even let them answer it. So I go, dude, like, let me ask you, dude, like, what happens if you don't do this over the next three, six, or twelve months? And I was like, because I'll give you an example of what I mean, because I know you just riff straight into it.

You don't even know.

Yeah, because I know that. I know they're not going to play that game because they're comfortable. Anyone who's comfortable, it's. It's hard to get that right? So it's like, you know, because, you know, we all have this, and you can even use analogy. And like, Usain Bolt can be running for running. Running 100 meters as fast as you can with a gold medal in reach. You put a fucking line behind that kid, you think he's gonna run faster. Exactly. You know, and I was like, I've got a fucking fire demon behind me pushing me every single day to do harder and harder and harder. Now I use it. I use a story here that not many people can use, Right. I use like a military story. I'm like, you know, I'm acutely aware. But you can say this way. You can go, you know, because we only have 4,000 weeks in this world, man. You know, like. And that's. That's a good fucking run. And for me, like, I've seen plenty of 22 year old dudes who are, you know, a quarter way through that not see the next day. So I'm acutely aware that I can walk outside tomorrow and be hit by a fucking bus. So, like, I need to do everything that I can today to fucking get after it. So, like, I've got that line chasing me every goddamn day. Which is why I have a poster in my office 4,000 weeks and I fucking tick one off every single week. So what the fuck are you doing to get after it?

Yeah.

You know, then people are like, even role playing it. You start thinking, I need to get after it, man.

It lands heavy. It lands heavy.

Really?

It's like you're thinking about it now. I'm like, yeah, people listen to this.

Podcast, are going on to fucking.

I need to fucking do something.

That's why, like, I've developed these stories, man, and they are so fucking powerful in these analogies. Like they just hit home so hard.

I'll tell you what, the big thing for me is because I always used to sell in, in my other. In my other roles. Using analogy. Just because it's because your brain thinks in pictures, right? Your brain. You say elephant, you don't think about the word pink elephant, you think about a pink elephant. There's an amazing book called. I think it's called the Tall lady and the Iceberg. And I tell you what, man, that book is absolutely killer in terms of how to frame things in analogous ways. Absolutely unreal book that is. I got it on audio because I don't like to read too much, but.

Readings for losers and queers.

Might want to edit that.

I say some rocker shit on this podcast, man.

But yeah, I'm sure it's called the Tall lady in the Iceberg.

I can see it. Unreal by Ann Miller.

That's it. That's it. And it's. There is some killer stuff in there. So when you and I started working with and you started, you know, giving me some of these, some of these analogies that I can use in this environment, that was, that was big for me.

Yeah, it's just. It gives you the ability to like, change the way that someone thinks. I was doing a sales coaching session today with one of my clients, James Can't. He's like a big fitness guy and I've just started coaching him in sales. He's a killer sales guy. Like it's a straight killer, right? But he's super combative. Like he calls people's pussies and stuff. It's like, don't you fucking hesitate, you pussy. You fucking. Like, he's hardcore, man. You know, he's like 4% body fat. He's all jacked up, you know what I mean? Like, he's just like, fucking go like that dude. You know he's making 100 grand a month when he was like 19 years old, right? He's just a straight killer, right? Killer. And yeah, man, So I was teaching him this stuff because he's a, he's a bull in a china shop. But I need to teach him how to be a ninja in a china shop because, like, you can sell with those hardcore ways. But like that, that, that, that Dale Carnegie line, it's like a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion. Still is so true. And if you want to create like transactional clients, you can just beat people up and like mentally and just get them to buy. But if you want to create like lasting chains, like those guys that you've been selling now those guys are in. They'll probably get great results because you.

Oh, a hundred percent. And they email me as well, you know, I get emails. Thank you so much. You know, you helped me see it and I wouldn't have pulled the trigger if it hadn't been for you. So, you know, on a personal basis, that's amazing because you feel great about what you're doing. You aren't just smashing people over the head into something. But yeah, the other side of that, of course, is that they're more likely to get some great results.

So I had a guy send me a testimonial with how I sold him. I've never had that before. Did a video testimonial. He was like, hey, I just want to say the way that Matt saw me was fucking brilliant. Like, he called me like two days later. He's like, I just realized what you did. He's a sales guy. I was like, yeah, I inception the fuck out of you.

He's like, you did well, you did me as well. You did, you. Because when we first started speaking, you set that hook for me. You said something about, something about a call that you'd had. You did something. You said that the guy was, was potentially going to like gonna think about it. I mean, I wouldn't anyway because I'm just, I'm trigger happy me, you know? But, but you said something about the guy was giving you vibes that he might want to think about it. So I was like, the fuck you are. You said that. And then in my head, I'M like, oh, shit. Even if I did want to think about it, there's no way I can now. That was cool.

Yeah. Okay, so which. So. So what we need to do is find, I guess, the most appropriate place to. So I think if you just have a think about it and you have, like, your three introductions.

Yep.

You know, like, for your situation, which is just like. Can I ask what you do now for to get clients? Like, I don't have any clients. I don't get any clients. You'd be like, all right, cool. So, like, what do you do for revenue? Right. So you just go straight back out. That's super simple. How long you've been doing that? I'm curious, like, what caused you to do it that way? Okay, so do you. Do you like the job you have now? And I'll send you a video of Jeremy doing it where he's selling a biz op. Cause Jeremy used to be real big into, like, network marketing.

Oh, okay.

So. And he's selling a cop.

Perfect.

It's live on stage. And he's selling the guy. And the guy doesn't know yet.

The guy doesn't know. He's. He's being broadcast.

He's so much of a savage. He is. He's like. He asked permission to do it afterwards. The guy was like, yeah, fine. Yeah. He's like, in front of a hundred people, he's like, I'm gonna do a live sales call for you guys. They're like, would that be cool? So good.

Oh, man. Yeah. I'd love to hear that. That's awesome.

Yeah. Yeah. So. But that'll give you a good. Like, because I haven't sold network marketing. I've sold the type of what you're talking about. But that'll give you, like, that's exactly how you do that, you know, because it's the same frameworks. It's the same everything. But it's like, though, that. That's the line of questioning. That's kind of like the emotional pools you want to get when somebody doesn't have a business and they want to start somebody. Start something. Right. Because you've got to really. You've got to understand the frustration that they have around the way that they currently make money.

Yeah.

And so that frustration has to be like the house on fire.

Yeah.

No. So you've got to really be able to pull that out really nice and succinctly. So I think having a story for you similar. You know, the perfect story is exactly the one that you told the beginning of this podcast, which was, like, the reason why you became a closer. You sick of having the fucking boot on the neck?

Yeah.

You know, so for you, like, where you put that tactical vulnerability in, right. Is like. Right. Like, right when you do consequence questions. Okay, so if I come down now, like, what happens if it doesn't happen? And then if you don't like the answer, you do the tactical vulnerability.

Yeah.

So tactical and splitting the script. Have you seen any of the. Did you watch that when I sent you with the. The guy went to prison, right?

Yep.

Yeah. So that tactical vulnerability that I did there was designed because, like, I knew. So with that one in particular, like, if you watch that, if you watched it a few times. But I. There's like, 10 things that I did in that call.

Yeah.

There's heaps of, like, little things that I had to put in there because, like, he was like, a classic guy that would never buy if he didn't do it perfectly.

Right, okay.

Because he didn't believe in himself. He felt bad about who he was. He's comfortable. Right. And he's a sales guy who, like, you know, so, like, a lot of sales guys, like, if you don't handle it perfectly, they'll just. Yeah, man, fucking sounds great. Send me an email. Fucking 100% in, you know, salesperson, salesperson. You always know they're trying to get over, like, hey, man, sales guy to sales guy. I wouldn't fuck you around. It's like, you're the worst kind of prospect.

Yeah. Yeah. You lying.

Hey, well, sales got a sales guy. Gimme your fucking money. You know, Like. Yeah, so, yeah, like, if you watch that and you're like. The anchors that I had to set at the beginning were, like, very, like, I had to do the congruency frame, so I did that. And then there was a part in there which is the real importance of, like, the really listening to the language choice that they use. That's why someone like you who's, like, you know, intelligent, a little bit older, like, you have a far better vocabulary.

That's a backhanded compliment. That was.

It was. You're old as fuck and not stupid.

50% I'll take.

Exactly. Right. But, like, so, like, for example, right, like, if I say stewardship, what. What do you automatically know about me?

That you're potentially religious.

Exactly. Right. It's a very important thing to know. Right. So most people don't know that. So if you know someone is religious, like, if they've talked about it or whatever, or if you just know from like a quick Facebook profile stalk, right?

Yep.

Beforehand. Then when you talk about certain aspects of them being a coach, you can talk in terms of stewardship and they will immediately have a deeper connection with you because they go, oh, fuck, this guy talks the same language as me, right?

Yep, yep.

Because like, stewardship and leadership are technically the same thing, but it's very different applications.

Yeah, right.

So stewardship is about leading a flock. No, it's very much like, it's very care based, whereas leadership is just like, you know, do as I say. Right. So, like, when you can talk in someone's vernacular. So in that call in particular, I asked him why he wanted to, you know, get better. I was like, you know, just so I can see the rationale behind why you might be looking at this, he said, I just really want to be at peace, that I'm doing the best I can for the account holder. And I was like, that's.

Which was a weird thing to say.

So fucking weird. Right?

At peace. What does that mean?

Yeah, exactly. And you, you picked up on that, right? Because you're, you know, you're like, go. Experience. You got life experience, right? And I picked up on it too, because I have life experience. And I did the call review And I like, 10 seconds after that, I paused it when everyone. I was like, anyone noticed that. They're like, what? I was like, man, that is a demon in the closet. That guy's got skeletons in his closet for sure. Right? So just listening and picking up on all the cues they're giving you, I was like, okay. And in the beginning of the call, I hadn't hit record yet. I mistake. He said he had struggled. He has trouble with prospects getting deeper. Right. Like, he has trouble with that. And I was like, okay, that makes sense. So I was like, I got you now. Like, all I gotta do is get you to get deeper. Right? So. And like, I'd gone through a couple of sections where I was trying to get the goal and the goal was like, relatively surface. Then when I went for tactical vulnerability, he's like, I'm just really gonna smash it. So I went into that whole, like, a real tactical vulnerability piece, talking about my father because he was around the age of a guy that I would assume would probably have kids or he would have recently lost a father. Right, right. I know it sounds kind of gross, but that's kind of where my head was at. I was like, well, he's old enough to. Where he's, you know, there's. Anyway that'll be. I Thought that would be. There was no downside to saying it, but I thought it was a positive. And this story is kind of true anyway. So, like, I was like, oh, I usually don't add the part about the part where I called my dad, but I do if somebody's of like the right ages, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Or if I know they have kids because then they can empathize about being the father. Right. To get clients. Like, I don't have any clients. I don't get any clients. You'd be like, all right, cool. So like, what do you do for revenue? Should you do it that way? Okay, so do you. Do you like the job you have now? And I'll send you a video of Jeremy doing it where he's selling a biz op. Because Jeremy. And then. So I told him and then kind of went through that tactical vulnerability, showed the vulnerability and I was like, so, like, what's going on, man? Why do you need to do this? And he was like, I don't even know why I'm telling you this, but you know. And I was like, sweet. Yeah, you just fucking word vomited. Right? And that was because, like, I knew I had to do that.

Nice guy as well, though.

Super nice guy. Also.

Lovely guy. I bet that guy closes real well because, yeah, I'm sure he gets real good report and stuff.

But yeah, and the demon in the closet was the fact that he been part of a fucking forex game, you know, scammed like millions of dollars out of people, you know, I don't. You know, and then he went to jail and he just felt super guilty, didn't feel worthwhile himself, you know. And so like, then that was all at that I'm at peace. I was like, man, when I heard that, I was like, that's super weird.

Yeah, right.

So picking up on those little things and then having those little. Like when you hear shit like that and when you know that people are going to struggle to get certain things, like you need to have. You need to be able to identify it early and then know exactly when to place the thing to fix it is. And like consequence questions is a place where you can do a lot of fixing.

Yeah.

So you can identify the non bio language, you can do some really powerful analogies, and you can get tactical vulnerability all in consequence questions. And those are all like, okay, like, you know, it's step one, pick, tick that. Step two, like, if you get the answer that you want and you know it's a good answer, you just fucking keep following through, because the faster you get the call done, the better. But then by having those like, okay, that wasn't good. I'm going to call out non bio language. Okay, cool. Step two, I'm going to give them an analogy to try and get what I'm trying to get out. Step three, I'm going to convey vulnerability because they will never tell you about what failure is to them unless they feel comfortable enough to become vulnerable. Because, like, telling you my goal and telling you what happens if I don't is, like real vulnerability, which is why people, like, don't post their goals up on Facebook very often. No one says, hey, I'm trying to lose 12 kilos, you know what I mean? Like, that specificity and that calling out, like, it. It's a certain level of vulnerability to be able to tell people what you want.

Yeah.

Like really what you want, you know? So.

Yeah.

And then that whole exploring failure thing is extremely important. I think that those. Those analogies really work quite well.

But that piece alone, that. That bit, the tactical vulnerability and the analogies, in order to. To be able to pull out. To be able to pull out the pain is that. I mean, that's worked for me. I can't tell you that alone, it was. Was worth the coaching fee. Just that bit. I swear. It's so good, man. Really.

That's fun. Nice one. And then you're comfortable with the pitch. You've locked it up into the pillars.

Yeah. So basically, yeah, three pillars of everything that we do just go through. I was really drawing that out before and I've really clipped that back since speaking to you. Yeah. And just. And just focusing much more on putting it back into their language. Focused in on what they need to do. And if there's a piece of that, like, if there's one of those pillars where, you know, they've doubled down. No, no, no, we've got this in place. We've got this in place. What we need is. We really need this. Then I'm with these two. I'm like, yes, so we get that. We get that. And then I'm. I'm doubling down on that one thing that was important to them. So I'm just being a little bit more cognizant and congruent of. Of the previous conversation and then. And then just really winding it in better at the end. Yeah, yeah.

Because we want to focus on one major problem, you know, not. Because if you bring out too many problems in the call, then, like, we're going to make them, like, lack clarity.

Right.

If they lack clarity, then they're not going to trust their own decision making process.

Yeah.

So it's like that's like that buying pocket that like Taylor Welch talks about all the time, you know, like, they have to be kind of up here to where they're confident in the. Their own decision making around most things, but then they have to be down here to where they're not so arrogant.

Not too far to the other end, because then they think they can do it by themselves.

Yeah, exactly. And if you. A lot of, A lot of the thing, the mistake that a lot of guys make is that they try and pull the pain too early. Right.

So I was 100% doing that as well.

Yeah. So you gotta like, you gotta earn that vulnerability, you know, and that whole story around, like you just walk into an elevator and ask somebody about their relationship with their mother. Like, you're a fucking weirdo, you know, So a lot of guys go like, like right at the very beginning of the script, okay, so what are you doing to lose weight? You know, like, okay, like, what are you here for? I'm here to learn how to lose weight. And it's not being. Losing me and lose weight. Is that impacting you? Like, what's that doing with your children? Do you hate yourself? Okay, good. Like, it's like, fuck you, man. Like, fucking use some lube, for God's sake.

Yeah, fuck everyone. Take me dry, man. Come on.

Exactly. I mean, it's not Wednesday.

So.

Yeah, so yeah, man, that's good. There's like that funnel. It's like that pain funnel, you know, so you kind of have to like, you have to earn that real pain. And most people just don't get there. They don't get to the real, the real crux of it. And that's why people stay in the status quo.

Yeah. And I tell you what, man, without that, if you're not going to get. If you, if you don't have a real solid way to be able to get anybody to talk about their pain, that it's game over. Don't you know, if you close it, it's because it's a fluke.

Yeah.

You know, you just. It was a rollover, right?

Well, it's funny, I just took over a sales team and they're closing at like 12%. And I was like, you know, I could just call people up and say, do you want to do it? And I'd probably get 10. They're like, Huh? I was like, I get a call center in India to do 12 I was like, you all suck. They were like, one of them quit on the spot. I was like, fucking, see ya.

Really?

They're terrible, bro. Great guys. They just. They're just all their closers in black, you know, they're HTC Danlock, Crush Velvet, but, like, in six weeks, they'll be crushing it. It's not a big deal. Yeah. Okay, cool. So what we'll do next call is we'll do a call review together.

Awesome.

Right? So, like, just record one, we'll bring it up, and then we'll kind of go through it. So we can just make sure that everything's ironed tight. But I think that those little changes, I think, will make it good. I think just having that like. Like, people get people that situation fit questions when people are outside the box really trips people up. But it's because you're just overthinking it. It's actually just really easy. Right. What do you do for revenue? Do you like what you do for revenue? No. Why not? Okay. That's it.

Yeah.

Super simple.

Yeah.

Right? And then make sure that you turn the stories in. And turn the stories in numbers. So whatever they're telling you, like, analyze it, make sure you get the real answer. Then you can put them into one of those three categories. Right. Then make sure the guys who are, like, genuinely doing really well that, you know, that you're going to have to really explore the cost of inaction because they're comfortable.

Yeah.

So using those stories, you know, right now you're on the couch under a blanket, watching fucking Netflix, having a Slurpee. Everything's great. It's comfortable, like. But, you know, there's a guy back here, it's being chased by a goddamn line. He's just gonna fly pasture, buddy. So we need to start getting after it.

Yeah.

Comfort. Comfort is a motherfucker. I tell people that all the time. Being comfortable is the worst because people who have their backs against the wall, they. They fight and they work hard. And it's like. Then people get to a certain point where they forget what it was like to have that fire in them. Which is why Rocky is even a movie.

Great movie.

Great fucking movie, man.

Great movie. I love that film.

Yeah, but, you know, he comes back up, he gets that fire back in. And when he has to fight, even Drago. Rocky 4 is sales.

Right?

Right.

I'm gonna put that on my calendar for today. Watch Rocky 4.

So funny. All right, cool. Questions, Cruise, Duffel points.

No. Nothing.

Perfect.

All right, brother.

I'll see you next week.

Appreciate it.

See you, bro. Cheers, D. All right, guys, so that's the end of that podcast. So I hope that was interesting for you guys. It might be super boring. I don't really know, but that was what a, like, one on one coaching session looks like when we don't have. Obviously, it's a little bit different sometimes because we couldn't go into specifics about his offer and his pitch, but that was kind of how we go back and forth about getting someone better at sales and having them understand concepts a bit better. So make sure you subscribe to the podcast. It really helps us out. And as always, have an awesome day. Put that coffee down. Coffee's for closers only.