13 Years Of Brutally Honest Sales Advice in 63 Mins

When you're good at sales, people look at you as an ATM. I was $100,000 a month commission. Only sales rep. One of very few in the space that's ever achieved that over a decent period of time. I had a two year old, my wife was pregnant. I had $4,000 total. I had no job because I just quit. And that position was terrifying. But if I want to sound more concerned, it's like, hey, man, how are you? Like, what have you been doing today? And from like that moment on, I was like, oh, I do it now. Everything changed. I was like, I do everything now and I do it super aggressively. And like, I will refuse to be in the position I'm in right now. People have got money and there's a lot of money everywhere. When you're in, you can just go and get it.

Matt Ryder.

Hello.

The sniper.

That's me. Some have called me the world's best. Yeah. Not often, but it has happened.

Many confirmed kills.

A few more than you can.

Definitely. Definitely.

Yeah.

Yeah, mate, you've got a. You've got an interesting story. Yeah, some would say pretty interesting, I think.

Yeah, well, I'm 41 now, so I mean. Yeah, look it, you can't tell.

Yeah, see since you moved to Kensington, you look younger.

I haven't moved there yet. I'm on the way.

I want to cover off your story and then I also want to cover off how you got into sales. How anyone can essentially get into sales if they have the right will, I guess, the earning capacity from that. And then we're going to touch on some real estate stuff as well.

Yeah, I can walk you through, like everything I did and I think I wasn't good at sales.

You are now.

I am. I'm okay.

My team thinks I'm terrible at sales now. After you spoke at our retreat, I.

Mean, compared to me, you. Although. Although, it's funny, right, because like, there's a lot of, I guess these days, like, snobbery in sales because, like, but the only measure, the only measure of a sales rep is how many sales they make. And so by that measure, you're a fucking monster. Like, and there's so many different types of salespeople. And you're a charismatic, heavily influential, kind of like product knowledge salesperson. So you in it, you love it, you're passionate. That's non transferable, right? It's a non transferable type of sale.

Meaning that like, other people couldn't do what I do because they're not me. Or.

Yeah, well, because like you Are selling as you, you're, you're confident, you know what I mean? You know, through seemingly no reason. Yeah, right. But like, you, you, you know it, you live it, you breathe it and you take the action. So like, you pull people along with you.

It's like influence.

Yeah, exactly. And then there are people that you know, and that's really good when you're selling something that you really know, that you're really passionate about. But for like a sales, like a professional salesperson that can bounce around and sell all different things, that doesn't. That's not like a super applicable way of selling because you, you have to sort of live and breathe it. And if I want to come in and act like I live and breathe it and seem like I live and breathe it, I have to sell in a little bit of a different way. Because I could go into here and I'd be the top guy. I could go over, you know, on handler's team and be the top guy. I could go and sell at a bank and be the top guy, you know? Cause you gotta, you can figure it out. It's like a different way of doing.

It, which is that new. Like, I mean, I'm assuming most people have seen this like high ticket closing thing, right? It's like, go learn how to sell, go and learn the skills of being a great salesperson and then try and hop around to different offers and make heaps of cash.

Yeah. I mean, the irony is that everyone in that space is comically garbage, you know what I mean? And it's because they never actually had to sell anything. So like, when I was in, I was in the military, and then when I got out, I became a personal trainer. Right. You have two roads legally, copper personal trainer. Those are your only options, right?

Or hitman or something.

Exactly, right, Yeah. I was actually offered, I was offered poaching poachers in Africa, right? And you're paid by the head. Literally, you had to present the head.

So people who are trying to take out the elephants, you take out them.

And I was like, yeah, but they're probably just trying to feed their families, you know what I mean? I was like, if it was me or a lion, if I guess kill a lion and feed your family. Hot take. I'm killing the fucking lion for sure. Give a shit. Like, fuck you, right? I'll kill everyone in this room to feed my kids. Right? So, yeah, right. And so like, I was like, no. And then I got offered, like, shooting camels in Northern territory, you know, because, like, I was like helicopter qualified. And so there's no.

Well, like camels fucking.

Oh, man. There's like too many camels. There's herds of millions of wild camels out there just in the middle of nowhere right there. So they just got to just. The government pays to have the slaughtered. If you didn't know that, that's where your tax dollars are going.

There you go.

Yeah. And I was offered all kinds of weird stuff and I sort of made a distinct decision. I didn't want to spend my life with a gun in my hand because, you know, I was in special operations and I was in snipers. And so I was good at that. But I was like, this is not a fulfilling thing. And as I've gotten older, I've realized, you know, we were probably the best.

There's more to life in killing people.

Yeah, exactly.

But the interesting thing is, regardless if you're in special ops or you were, you know, in retail or whatever it was, you essentially made that switch from being on what essentially was a fixed income. I mean, you got paid different amounts to do different things, obviously, and then you moved into an industry where you have an unlimited earning potential.

Yeah. And PT is, I think fitness is a really good, like, first foray into that because it's like a huge tam. You know, it's one of the only things you can sell people more than once. You know, there's new people that need it every day and there's just a constant demand and it's sort of recession proof in a way.

Team is total addressable market. That's true. Which means there's lots of fat people that you can sell.

There are. There's more every day. Right. McDonald's is just turning them out and.

Then you can resell them when they get skinny.

Yeah.

And they go and get fat again.

Yeah. And like, you know. Yeah. There's different niches and goals and you can sort of have a huge clientele. And your hourly rate is outrageous.

Yeah.

Like, you know, you do an eight week course with AIF or whatever and you can charge 100 bucks an hour. I mean, to be a tradie and get to charge 100 bucks an hour, like, you know, you have to be qualified at the shithouse to get that. Whereas, you know, being a PT is one of the easiest ways to live at the beach and make 100k a year, you know, and so I did that and then sort of realized I was like, okay. So I went down the education path, realized that the better I got, it didn't really equate to one to one of like getting more business. I would hold the business, but I didn't get it. And then when I opened my own gym, I thought, like, if you build it, they'll come type thing. And they just didn't. And so we had to figure out.

You didn't just open the doors and people just walk in.

No, no, no.

Like, hey, you're the guy that got offered to shoot the camels.

I even like was like dressed up in a, in like a gorilla suit in Bono junction, like giving out body weight assistance. Right.

Like just that was the point where you're like, fuck, I should have taken the camel job.

I was just like, jesus, oh, how the mighty have fallen. And so, yeah, so did all that and then I was like, did some courses on like sales and marketing. I love the marketing side. I was really into it. So I had a business partner and so I was like, hey, you did the sales out of the marketing. So I did all the meta ads and all that kind of stuff. And then from there, as it grew, we sort of both had to go into the sales and I was terrible at it. I just didn't like it. I think it was because I had a distinct lack of empathy because I'm sort of like, my tendency is sort of more sociopathic, which is why I was sort of in the job that I was.

Yeah.

Having kids and getting older, I've like softened a lot. So I like, I feel feelings now.

Yeah.

You know, I'm sort of like, I actually have some emotional range.

Less, less sociopacking.

Whereas back then I was like, what do you mean?

What do you mean?

You're upset but you're fat. It wasn't like the most motivating sales style. And then, you know, over the, over the course of time, I sort of like, when you're a sniper, you have your data and you make all your adjustments based off data. And if you don't know your data in that world, you're a total piece of shit. Like, people hate you.

Right.

And so I was like, okay, if I'm going to do this, I'll write down everything that happens and then I'll try and find the patterns.

So you've got like interchangeable skills essentially, right? Like what sort of data you're tracking as a sniper. Like the.

Oh, well, I mean, like when you're going to do like a cold barrel shoot, you know, facing directly north, you know, and it's, it's a high elevation, it's cold. It's a very different Shot than facing south, Low elevation, high humidity. Because, like, there's a lot of factors that affect the bullet, the gun, you know, like if the barrel's cold, the propellant doesn't go as fast so that the bullet doesn't go as fast, so it drops earlier. You know what I mean? Like, obviously, right?

Yeah, yeah. Like fuck.

You know, but if you're trying to shoot someone in the face of, you know, 1500 meters, like, there's not a lot of error, right?

So, man, I can't shoot. I was using a gun once. It's in Tamworth at Emma's cousin's property. And we had cans on rocks literally like 20 meters away. Yeah, couldn't do it.

Well, you know, not everyone's built to.

Be a. I wasn't. Wasn't tracking my daddy. You said you died.

It's a coal barrel. Yeah.

I think the sniper. The scope was out or something.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Crafts and blames are tools. That's the way it works.

It's the dialer.

Yeah. So, yeah. So, you know, went through and I started tracking stuff and then I started. Was going, okay, like, I need to know how many sales I want to make, how many conversations I need to have, and you just sort of go down to like, the activity requirement. And so I just started doing that. And then as we grew and I went into a partnership and ended up being a part owner, like 18 gyms. My job was just to, like, basically go into the new gyms and then grow them quickly and then get out and then do it again. So all I did was sell eight hours a day.

Right.

There was five, six days a week on the phone. I used to get a CSV file emailed to me and was like, stupid targets. It was like 40% lead to sale. That was the actual target, which is very, very high.

It's like insane for context. Ours is like one.

Yeah. But like. Yeah. And I didn't know how stupid it was, and none of us did because we're all kind of flying by the seat of our pants, you know, And. And so we ended up doing that, and then I sort of just cracked the shits with it because there are decisions being made that I didn't agree with. And then I was just like, this, I'm out. And then I started like, a sales agency for gyms. And so that kind of grew out. And then I was doing, like, I was doing the sales for gyms around the world. So time zone hopping. I was working, you know, 16, 17 hours a day.

So like a Done for you sales model essentially. Like.

Yeah. That they would generate the leads, send them to me and I would call them and I was like using Skype and all kinds of random shit and I was just kind of like trying to figure it out. That grew really fast because there's a real need for it. And then I started doing more and more and more sales. And then when I got into the high ticket world, I had done, you know, eight years of full time selling.

And the difference for people who don't know like high ticket sales essentially just means you're, you're selling an expensive product, you're selling air.

Yeah. You're selling information. Right. Which is like valuable information, but the value of which is completely subjective.

Yeah.

And based on somebody implementing it and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, you got a $30,000 business coaching package where you're going to get access to a course, a PDF and you know, a good mindset. Right. So you learn how to sell that and it's. Although it's valuable because you can get tremendous returns from it. Like, you know, I paid my sales coach like the first, I paid him 40,000 bucks. I had 50 grand in the bank and I remember my wife going to me going, where the fuck's our money going? And I was like, oh, I gave it to this dude named Jeremy. I feel like it's gonna work out just like, all right, you seem good at this.

It worked out though, right?

Yeah, it worked out.

Implementation though.

Yeah, you gotta do it. But you know, like all that, it's just about time and, you know, longevity and seeing the patterns and being able to figure it out to get really good at sales. But you know, most of the time you can be a really successful sales rep by being pretty dogshit on the phone. You can just like hustle the living bejesus.

Just be consistent, just do the work.

Work eight hours a day. Like it's revolutionary shit. But that's one of the things you can make a shitload of money in sales, even if you're not super gifted, if you are just willing to work a full day.

Because the difference between sales, I suppose, and other roles is that if you work eight hours a day in your plumbing gig or as a, you know, person in the defense force, you get paid for eight hours a day regardless if you sit down and do nothing or you are a hustler.

Yeah.

Where in a sales world you're paid essentially on outcome. You might get a small base, but yeah, you're not going to make much money. If you do nothing, and generally, if you do nothing, you know, you're not getting any actions or doing any actions.

It's a high risk, high reward. Yeah. Right. And so. And for me, I've always turned bases down. One of the first sales gig I ever, like, I didn't get it. And so I remember I just hounded the guy, and I was like, hey, how much? I ended up after, like, two weeks of, like, me hounding this dude, I said, how much do you pay for a sales call? He said, 400 bucks. I said, I'll give you $400 for everyone. I don't close. And he was like, well, I mean, that's all right.

How's that for an irresistible offer, huh?

Yeah. And it was a $2,000 commission for a $30,000 sale. I made six in the first week.

So you're essentially working out, like, if I close one that pays for five that I don't close.

Yeah, yeah. And I wasn't planning on not closing anybody, so. Right. So I was like, I made six sales and made $12,000 commission the first week. And I was like, oh, oh, shit. This is different. Because I was used to selling fitness programs, you know, making 50 bucks a sale.

How did you make the transition, though, like, to go from being in the Defense Force to then going straight into sales? Like, what did that look like for people?

It was the PT component.

Right.

So I kind of learned, you know, the PT molded. I was sort of selling full time before I realized I was a sales rep, like, because I just kind of fell into that role because nobody was doing it in the company. And I was like, well, someone's got to be the dude who's responsible for this. And I was like, it might as well be me.

So essentially, like, to think about it in a way, if you're a mechanic, for example, you take your car into the mechanic shop, the mechanic obviously fixes your car, but they also have then a sales portion of their role, which is like, hey, there's a new horn.

In your Johnson rod. You gotta replace the whole engine. You gotta get the new brake pads. Yeah.

Like, that's the sales portion of the role, which is essentially you in pt. Right. Like, you were actually training people. And then, you know, I'm assuming there was the upsells to the supplements and the fucking. Hey, you should train five times a week instead of three times a week.

You just learned that you actually get, like. You know, it's like, with exercise, if you do it, it'll work. I don't Care what you do. If you just move more and, like, eat healthier, you'll be a healthier, fitter person.

Yeah.

And so that's why, like, people who shit on fitness and forces, like, man, how many people you helping, right? Like, with your fucking four clients down at Clovelly beach, motherfucker. You know what I mean? Like, you're fucking changing the world, dude.

It's true.

But you know how to Olympic lift? Well done to you, you know? And so if you're looking at, like, helping the. The most amount of people, if you can have a small impact on those people and just go like, hey, how about you just stop drinking yourself to death every weekend? That's a huge positive. So sales will get you a lot further in that than what being a really skilled coach will. Because people don't need a highly skilled coach for anything. 90% of the time. They just need someone who's, like. They respect enough to actually start doing some things.

To take action.

Yeah, exactly. And so sales is that transition from doing nothing to doing something. And that's kind of. I like that role. It's a good place to be. Like, I'm not gonna pretend like I'm here to fucking help and change the words. No. Right. But I like doing that part. It's a good catalyst.

Getting someone out of essentially doing nothing to taking action. And then the fulfillment part of that then goes on to someone else. Tell the story that you told us at retreat. Around. Around. You were selling in the gyms, and this is like, the thing that changed the mindset of, like, you would have met with this person.

It's sort of. I was always thought sales was a bit icky, you know? And I remember this big fat dude came in and he was like, I don't know, he's like 100. He's like 50 kilos overweight. And he's telling me. He's like, I need to lose weight. And I was like, yeah, sweet. You need this much weight loss. Gonna cost this much money. He's. And he sort of gave me. He's like, oh, I just gotta go and, like, work out the times. And I was like, the time was like, 10, 40 kilos a gun, right? That was the time. Now it's like, let's do this.

Yeah.

You know? And he was sort of like, oh, yep, yep. Sweet. I'll get back to you. And I'm gonna go think about it. And all he thought about was fucking donuts, right?

He left there, and he's like, fuck that.

And I swear, like, six months later and the dude was like 70 kilos overweight. And I was like, oh, that was just my inability because that person had shown the glimmer of motivation because he was there. He was there. Yeah. And it was like my job was to create the argument of, hey, how about you do something to not die as fast, right? You get one life. Like let's, let's live it, champ. Right? And I couldn't do that. So I was like, ah, fuck me. Like that's, that's on me. That dude has 20 habits.

That 20 kilos is my 20 kilos, you know, that he put on exactly.

Like this, my habit. Cuz like I was a fat kid, right? I was told it was my genetics and all that kind of stuff and all these other things like my parents sort of still believe to this day, right? Then they point to the auntie that's not related to me by blood, right? Yeah, I mean it's all that, you know, but like they do you sort of tell yourself stories, right? And so I was like, oh, that's on me. And so I was like, I need to get better at convincing these people and, and me showing off my, you know, my technical prowess with training is not going to do that because that's not ultimately like what matters to them. And so I started going down the road of I want to get better at sales and convincing people to actually.

Start and influence, right?

That's the thing influencing people.

And that's, I think what you said before around like sales generally is looked as like fucking the sleazy salesperson, right? Like the car salesman, the real estate agent, whatever it is. But I think in that example that that person genuinely needed someone to be like, hey, you're a fat motherfucker, or whatever it is. You need to do something because if you don't, the outcome is. Yeah, death before 50.

Yeah. And I think especially with something like fitness is a good place to start. Because, man, I'd love people to argue with me in the comments. But like, you know, there is no, they will. There's no downside to going to the gym and eating a bit healthier. You know, you can argue sales coaching programs, you can argue whatever like, you know, and I don't think people should use sleazy sales tactics. But I think one of the best things about sales is you never have to lie. And it's like, state the facts, tell the truth. It's a very freeing experience. And I like that because I'm very forthright and I tell the truth and if people like it, fantastic. And I think you present it in a respectful way. But I think if someone is doing something that is antithetical to what they want, you know, then you should tell them and they should have the opportunity to either, oh, oh, course, correct, or like, well, fuck it. And then it's like, well, you really don't want it anyway.

That's right.

So at least admit to yourself that you don't want it. Or you're like, you want to want it and you haven't hit rock bottom because you have to touch the oven to know it's hot.

What are you, what have you seen? The best transitions from careers into sales are because you've worked with fucking, I don't know, thousands and thousands of sales people around.

Right. Fitness is a good one.

Right?

Anything door to door. Anything where you have a high. A high touch point with people.

Right, so communication, style of role.

Yeah, exactly. So, you know, customer service, you know, where you have to deal with complaints all the time and. Yeah, it's sort of like, you know, I think one of the things that makes sales difficult for people is I think this day and age, you know, I sound like the old guy is. There's a distinct lack of human to human communication. And like, with, like, I didn't. I never had a dating app. I met my wife. We've been together for 16 years. Right, right. And so she was 21, I was 25. There was no dating apps or nothing. And when I went out.

Where'd you meet?

We met at a course at the. At the. At the PT course. Yeah. I stood up day one and said I was. I was in the army still. I was getting out and I was at the course that I was doing. I said, hey, my name is Matt. I'm a special forces sniper. And yes, ladies, I am single. Right.

Sales right there.

Right. Sales. Smoking hot blonde was like, what's going on? And we went on our first date three days later.

Right.

And we've been. We've been together ever since. And so, you know, I think if you don't, you know, from what I can see and like, I see a lot of, like, you know, young salespeople, and they just don't know how to speak to people. And that's the biggest barrier. And I think that this was also the biggest thing that can, like, change your life the most is going through that process and learning how to speak to people and having sort of weird conversations.

It is true. Like, when you speak to a lot of people these days is like, in person, actually meet them. It's like, really awkward.

Oh, they're horrific. You know, like, what do I do with my hands?

They don't look at you and like.

And they also. They can't read what's happening, you know, And I think a lot of that's. Cause dating apps, like, that's what I think because I used to go out and, like, put myself out there and.

Be like, hey, I'm Matt. I'm a sniper. Yes, I am single. Before you meet your wife.

Exactly. Yeah. And so. But I used to go over, you know, it's so funny. Guys just don't know how to approach women. They don't know how to, you know, they don't know how to present themselves as well. They don't know how to, like, talk to somebody. They don't know how to network. Like, I'm sure, like, when you go to an event like networking, you're probably good at it, right? You got there, you talk to people.

You know, and you just ask questions like, hey, I'm Jack. What do you do?

Exactly. But you actually have to, like, you actually, there's an element of, like, I'm gonna reach out. And so vulnerability is like a handshake. You only get it if you give it. And you have to reach out, go, hey, I'll be vulnerable. And that's like, I'll tell you information that you don't know about me because there's like a. There can be a power dynamic thing where now I know info about you that you don't know about me. And that can be kind of a weird thing for some people.

It's very true.

Yeah. And. But I think, you know, and if you can learn sales and you can learn how to communicate yourself effectively, it makes you a better parent, makes you a better partner. Like, my kids, like, my kids are being taught. They're six and nine, if they want something and they come to me and they're like, I want this. And I go, that's not how you ask that.

You're teaching them. Oh, yeah, communication.

I go, well, I go, like, what do you want? They're like, I want this. And I'm like, okay, so how do you get it? Like, figure out the puzzle, you know, like, and. And communicate yourself in a way that, you know, makes me want it. Makes me want to give it to you.

Have you seen that Chinese guy on, I don't know, maybe he's not Chinese. He's like a Asian background. Ah, fuck, what's his name? Will something. And all he Talks? No, he doesn't talk about.

Oh, yeah.

Is that what his name is?

Yeah.

And he just talks about. Simply about communication. And he talks heavily about, like, people who have immigrated to. I think he's in Australia, isn't he?

Yeah. Yeah.

And how to, like, get out of their, you know, sort of slang that they have, you know, where, like, Chinese people sound different when they speak English to someone who's born in Australia.

And how to enunciate.

Yeah, it's incredible. It's incredible. And just the way that he talks.

Yes.

Makes you very engaging. Yeah. And he seems so intelligent when all he's doing is saying normal words, but makes the normal world sound so different.

Yeah. And just like how you present yourself and how you say things, and people don't realize how incredibly influential intonation is. There's a great children's book called no Mr. Magoo, this is for you.

Right.

And it's the exact same thing. It just says, no, Mr. Magoo. No, no, Magoo, this is for you. Right. And it's like, magoo's the dog. And then it changes the punctuation, the bold and the spacing.

Right. So you can say the same thing.

And then it has a different picture, but you understand exactly what is being said by the picture and the intonation of the word. No, Magoo, this is for you. No, Magoo, this is for you. Right. And so just that intonation is like, oh, he was wondering if that was for him. This is for you. No, Magoo, this is for you. It's this one. And so it's small things like that. Like, if I ask you a question, like, well, Jack, like, why is that important to you now, though? Or if I go, oh, Jack, like, why? Why is that important to you now, though? That little change of intonation? I can predict how you'll answer it. And so I can sort of get you to answer things in ways that I want you to answer that's based on outcomes that I'm looking for without it seeming like I'm doing that. And that can seem very manipulative and I guess if used in the wrong way, it definitely could be. But it's about being able to communicate yourself effectively because I want you to answer in terms of time frame. Why is that important to you now, though? And so that slight pause because you grew up in a Western society, you know, I'm placing the importance on the now. And so you're going to answer it. Well, you know, I've just been thinking about doing this for a while. You Know, and so, like, people are highly influential, highly influenced in that state. And I think that, to me is fascinating. And it means that you can go into a situation and you can understand how to communicate in a way where it makes sense to get the answers that you're looking for and get what you want. And even goes down to, you know, like hotel reception. You know, you call them helpful, label them as helpful. Labeling is a very effective tool. Oh, you've been so helpful. Thank you so much. You guys are so helpful. You come in the next day, hey, you guys have been so helpful. But could I ask a favor? Can I have a late checkout? Okay. Right. Like, because they want to maintain.

They want to be helpful.

Yeah, they want to be helpful, you know, and so it's all these little things that you can do to sort of influence your way through life. And there's lots of good people out there, you know, Never split the difference guy.

Chris Vaughn was the first sales book I ever read.

Yeah, it's a great one. There's another one called, like, Oren Clare, Flip the Script, who does a lot of like, large similar.

Is it?

Yeah. Well, he talks about like, you know, like different ways of selling and different, you know, things around, like creating hyper authority really quickly and little techniques that you can do where if you're going to explain something complicated, do it very fast, right? Because the faster you do it, the easier it is for you. And then people will sit back and go, oh, fuck, Jack knows what he's talking about, you know, and so like.

Oh, this is such a. I don't even do that on purpose. I just talk really quickly. People like, fuck, that guy smart.

Yeah, well, that's. That is the thing as well, you know, like pacing of what you talk about. Because if you talk naturally fast and then you slow down in certain points, you'll create an enormous effect of importance. And so, like, my normal talking speed is a lot faster than what I talk right now when I'm talking to, you know, people that I like, for example, right now. But if I'm. If I'm not like in a presentation, like, if I'm. I talk really quickly, right. But in order to get my point across, I talk in a more kind of baseline speed so that if I talk faster or if I talk slower, it has more of an effect.

And your tonality as well. Right? Like, that's one of the most important things.

Yeah. So like, if I want to sound more curious, I can just kind of. I just talk to the back of the throat up A little bit. Hey man, how's it going? How are you today? You know, like, what have you been doing? But if I want to sound more concerned, it's like, hey man, how are you? Like, like, what have you been doing today?

Everything all right?

Everything okay. Right. You know, so you just talk a little bit from the bass and you can slow it down even more. You can go, hey man, how are you? Like, what have you been? What have you been doing today? And then it's sort of like, oh, like that's very off putting because it's very confusing as to what I mean.

And the way that you ask something like you're saying before you can say the exact same words.

Yeah.

But have different tonality. And what was that you said? It was, it was a different annunciation, a different intonation. Intonation, yeah.

Yeah. So like the Internet people who didn't.

Finish school like me. What's that mean?

Yeah, so it's like the, like, you know, if you look at it like when you're writing it out, it'd be like the ellipses, you know, the three dots, like for the pausing. And then you might bold a word.

Right.

To put more emphasis on it. And so when I would tell people to write a script, for example, I write it like that because I want to be able to look at it and know exactly what I'm going to say. Because if I'm looking for patterns and sales and when you're dealing with people, the difficulty is that like everyone will answer differently, different words, but they will answer in patterns. Like if I say, why is that important to you now though, the vast majority will answer with time frame. So I have to be able to remove the words they use and look at the baseline of like, okay, they answered with time frame. But I need to be able to like ask everything the same way every time to find the pattern which is.

And create predictability.

That's the difficulty in sales. And once you can do that and what I did when I was like learning, when I was getting into high ticket sales and I started making like 15k a month, 20k a month. I was $100,000 a month commission only. Sales rep. Right. One of very few in the space that's ever achieved that over a decent period of time. And I went through every single line in my script over the course of about six months and I had the intonation perfect for every line.

And that would have come from the detail orientated style of work being sniper, right?

Yeah. Because I was, I sort of realized like oh, I've got an opportunity here. So I was getting paid 2,000 a sale, which is like, ridiculous. I'd never seen money like that before. I mean, the most money I ever made as a PT was I probably made 200 as a PT.

Right.

You know, I mean, but then, like, when I was doing the gym stuff, I was making like 80 because it was like, you know, for the equity play type thing, which never end up happening.

So when you left, when you left the Defense Force, you took a step down in income.

Well, I mean, so I took a year off to sort of learn how to be a human again.

Yeah.

And then I became a PT and I was like, pretty successful pt. I was probably making the same money as a pt.

Yeah.

But then when I opened the gyms, you sort of like, you know that business owner mode where you're like, I make no money in exchange for something that may or may not ever happen. So I did that for a long time, got myself into debt, you know, it cost me like 90,000 of my money on an 18% overdraft when I. When I opened the gym. That took me a long time to climb out of that fucking hole.

Yeah.

And then when I left the gyms, I sort of just walked away from them. I was still in debt from them. And I remember this was like, this was probably seven years ago, right?

So not that long ago.

It wasn't that long ago. Yeah, yeah. Like 2018. And me and my wife, we had 4,000 in the bank and our rent was six. Right. Which is like, not even a crazy. It was like a. It was like a half decent house in Kensington. Yeah, Right. And it was like, pretty.

That's where the Kensington connection comes from.

Yeah, yeah, there was. Yeah, we have tons of people over there. And so my wife was pregnant with my second and we were like super broke. Like, so broke that we sold a car and didn't pay off the finance. Right. Like, there's a couple months there where I was like, yeah, I mean, so car still around?

Yeah, I just don't drive it anymore.

He's like a personal on it anyway. And so I, I was like, like, really? I was just. I remember just like having this fucking conversation with this dude because I was like, this is just before I left the gyms. And I was like, man, next year is gonna be the fucking year. And like. But with the gyms. And he was saying the same thing. And I remember like having this. Oh, I've had this conversation four times.

She never comes.

And I was like, oh, I do it now. And from like that moment on I was like, oh, I do it now. Everything changed. I was like, I do everything now and I do it super aggressively. And like I will refuse to not, I will refuse to be in the position I'm in right now. And that position was terrifying. I had a two year old, my wife was pregnant, eight months pregnant. I had $4,000 total. And I had no job because I just quit. Right. No income. And I had.

And rent was due.

And rent was due. And I was like. And I had a car that I sold that I didn't pay off. Right. So it was grim.

A lot of people would be in a similar position.

Yeah.

Like it's not, it's not unusual position.

And so I called everyone that I knew that owned a gym. Everyone. Because I've been a gym owner for a long time. So I like, I knew people. And I was like, hey, I'll do your sales. It was 375 a week base.

Right, right.

And 25 a sale.

Just selling memberships essentially.

Yeah. And so I signed up like six gyms and I just started calling the living out of everybody. And then I was like, okay. And so then I was like, well, I've maxed out my times in Australia, I need more work. So I was like, sweet. Gyms in the U.S. i called friends, everyone.

So essentially like you're working say 8 till 5 or 8 till 6 in Australia and then.

And I was working till like midnight in the us. Yeah, yeah. And then UK as well. So because the time zone. So I was doing the sales for like maybe eight different gyms myself.

Right.

And I was doing like two hours a day per gym, making about two to three sales per day per gym. I was pretty good at it. I could do a sale in 15 minutes and so I just did that. And then that got me sort of out of a hole. I then we then moved. I bought my parents house off them at like an arm's length transaction. So basically it was 710,000 for a giant house in Perth. Right. You know what I mean? It was a thousand square meter block.

Pretty close to Kensington.

Yeah, yeah. And so because we just couldn't afford Sydney, couldn't afford it. And so managed to get like a second tier lender. It was arm's length. So my parents were like, basically they funded the deposit. Yeah. And so I bought it off them. And then from there that gave them, that freed them up to then downsize a bit. And then I had a private mortgage with them. And then from there, that sort of gave me the freedom to where my bills were significantly reduced. I had a house, so I was in the market. So I was like, sweet. This sort of ticks a few boxes. And it gave me the freedom to work 18 hours a day and sort of not have the enormous financial stress of just having to pay bills. Because I, like, I figured I could make enough money to get that done. Maybe not paid tax, you know what I mean, on time, but I could figure that out. And then over the course of the.

Year, great people, anyway.

Yeah, yeah. Super. Super awesome people. Love you. And. And so. And then from there, over the course of the next year, I got the business to about 200,000amonth.

And this was essentially just you doing done for you. Sales for other gyms.

Yeah, well, I transitioned out of the gyms about halfway through that. After that guy paid me $12,000 for a week. I fired every gym immediately.

Right.

And I was like, now I do this. And I went to high ticket sales. And that's where I started sort of doing that. And that's when I hired Jeremy as a sales coach. And then he asked me, is Jeremy a sales coach? Yeah, he's the guy who gave 40 grand.

You said, Jeremy, I wasn't going to ask the question, but there you go.

Yeah. And so. And then he asked me to be his sales guy. And I was like, yep. And then he asked me to be CEO and then he asked me to be a business partner. And by the time that happened, Sales Sniper was doing a million month, which.

Was the business that you ended up doing before.

Yeah. And Sales Sniper kept going. Sales Sniper got up to about two and a half million a month.

Right.

And at its peak between seventh level and Sales Sniper is about five or six mil a month between the two of them.

It's a big operation.

Big operation. And I was running both. I was still like the sort of main sales guy on Sales Sniper, selling all the accounts and then transitioned out and sort of focused on seventh level and then sold that back to Jeremy at the end of 23 and then started the dialer of which we use.

Yeah, dialer IO.

Right.

Which is connect rates through the roof.

Through the roof. You guys are 87% for the month.

So the transition from broke, living in Kensington, sold the car to multimillion dollar a month business. It was relatively short couple years. Like. Yeah, four or five years. And I guess that's the power of sales. Right.

Or.

Or a business in which you are in control of the outcome. The more you put in the more you get.

Well, it was sales. It was because, like, you know, so, like. Because I was good at sales and I. But I was only good at sales because I worked harder than all the other sales reps. And it would have.

Been a, like, element of desperation, right?

Oh, man.

When you got no money, you're like, what the fuck?

I mean, I knew I could do hard things. Like, I was special operations. I was like, I know that if I. Like, my wife said to me, when. When I paid $40,000 to Jeremy, she was like, I know that whatever you do, if you do it 100, you'll kill it. So it goes. She just goes, do whatever you need to do, and I'll take care of the rest. And so I was like, sweet. She was like, I trust you. And I was like, okay, cool. Like, that's all I need. My wife trusts me. Like, she's got this. She's got the kids. Like, I will. And I was like, sweetie, I'm gonna work 18 hours a day for the next year. And you just have to be okay with that. And she's like, don't worry, I got you. And we talked about it. We had the conversation. So I worked literally 18 hours a day. I would. I would. I would work until about midnight, 1am and then I would, like, wake up, like, you know, five or six, and then I would start work again. And then I'd have, like, an hour, hour and a half break in the middle of the day, have a sleep, have some food, get back into it. And then I would take, like, from 5 to 7 off. And that's when I would, like, talk to the kids. The kids.

Yeah.

I would get back in the office at 7, work till midnight, 1aM Go to bed.

And that was doing calls in another time zone, essentially.

Yeah. Because I was doing stuff all over the world. And I said, if I do this right, I think I can build so much brand momentum that nobody will be able to stop me. And there was no competition in terms of.