8 figure business owner explains how to sell better than 99% of people

I was really bad at sales for a really long time. I was always a high producer, but I was not skilled. I was brute force. And in just like disgraceful amounts of activity follow up. Like the moment a lead comes in, I'm on top of it. Like the second it comes in. I would say when I was a not even mediocre skilled sales rep, I was making 30 grand a month. Then when I started getting good, I went to 100 very quickly because I was a sniper. There's a very disciplined approach to shooting. Served me very well in business. I shoot four or five rounds and then you change off the group. But what that means is that you're essentially missing your target, and then you keep missing your target intentionally so that you can adjust and then definitely hit the target. And I think it's the most important thing that sales people or business people have to learn is that like the discipline comes in seeing 10 things that are wrong, but only fixing one.

My name is Dana Neeson and I have a very special guest today. This guest was a special forces sniper. He's the former CEO of Seventh Level, the current CEO and owner of Sales Sniper, run out of Australia, I believe, as well as the his newest venture. He's the CEO and founder of SDR Call Center. Welcome, Matt Ryder.

Thank you. Good to be here. Nice to see you.

What, what have you seen training as many salespeople as you had have in your career? What do you see is sort of like the most frustrating or number one thing that you see why agents or sales people just cannot implement what you're trying to teach?

You know, I, I think there's a couple things there. I think, you know, lack of ability to have just coherent conversations. So I think, like, lack of social skills is a huge one, especially right now with like the young sort of the new up and coming sales reps, the sort of Gen Z sales reps. You know, Covid happened. They, they don't, they don't have to go up and pick up women anymore. You know, you know, sales is probably a guy's game, but it's definitely doesn't, you know, just traditionally. Right. It's like 80% men or whatever it is. Right. And so, but like, you know, Tinder, you just swipe. You don't have to approach anybody. You don't have to like, have a social skill. You don't have to, you know, and then, and then zoom, everything's over the phone. Like, you know, they're having zoom hangouts. They're not, they're not getting that human to human sort of skin to skin type interaction and you don't learn the nuances of human communication, you know, and so, and then with COVID everyone being kind of locked down, I think they spent some really formative years that they're supposed to learn that stuff and make the mistakes in an environment where it's very difficult. So what I see a lot of is a lot of it's sort of gen zers. They just do not know how to speak to people. And then I think then their only interactions with people are to get money out of them in transaction, which makes you into a psychopath. Right. So, you know, I see a lot of really, you know, hungry young sales kids that just are looking for word tracks. What do I say here? What do I say here? I was like, mate, like, can you not just hear what they're saying to you? Like, you can't do that.

Really interesting point, Matt, that you brought up. Because I've always known that there is just a general lack of communication skills that, that I'm, I've been seeing who, I've been building this team for four years and I, and I think you're right. I think that just the lack of general communication skills limits someone's ability to really grasp the information that we're trying to teach them. Because they're so focused on what you just said, the words on the paper. Well, when am I supposed to say it? And then like, I get questions all the time. Well, if someone says this, like, how would you respond to that? Or where would I put that in the script? And it's like, it's very difficult for me actually to communicate back to someone that it's, it's so much more than that. Right. It's just almost to the point where I wish I didn't even have a script.

Yeah, like, I mean, I, I, I think, I think everyone should use a script. But I haven't looked at a script in years, right. Because, because I, it's in my head. I know what to do. I have 50 of them in my head. Like, I just know, like, you have to memorize the script. People have to memorize it. Because you can't listen to someone unless if you're thinking about what you're about to say, you are not listening to someone. And so, like, you know, a lot of the time I can. When you, like, listen to sales reps, you can sort of like hear their internal monologue. It's like you're, you're waiting for your opportunity to talk, which means you're never going to pick up on the subtleties. Like if someone, if someone says like, you know, know, like, well, like, you know, why do you want to do this? Or whatever. And they, they give you three things, they go, well, it's the one, the two and the three. The way that I just said it, the three is the most important one, right? If I go, what's the one, the two and three, it's the one, right? Because like that, that, that hesitation and pause means like they were giving, they were giving that gravitas and they were doing that because that's what's important to them, you know? Yeah. The other two are throwaways, right? And, and so like, but if you don't, if you don't know how humans talk to each other, you're not gonna pick that up, you know? You know, and so it's really quite difficult. I think there's that. And I think like, you know. Cause I think with a basically decent communication structure, anyone can be pretty good at sales. The thing that people don't talk about to be excellent at sales is there's an intelligence barrier. There just straight up is like, you have to be able to do some really significant problem solving in real time to be excell.

Right.

You know, and, and, and so, and you're solving a human puzzle.

Do you think you have to be excellent to have the definition of success that people are looking for?

No, no, not at all. Not at all. Because like, there are, there's, there's, there's two ways to, to be really successful in sales. The only measure of how good you are at sales is how many sales you make. That's it. That's the only measure. Right? And so like some people achieve it through just incredible amounts of just activity. Hustle muscle. I like that's my default is hustle muscle. I was really bad at sales for a really long time. You know, I was in sales probably full time for 8 years before I. And I was terrible. But I was, I was always a high producer, but I was not skilled. I was brute force. And in just like disgraceful amounts of activity follow up that. And that's how I sell these days. Still. I still. So this day I am extremely active sales rep. Like the moment a lead comes in, I'm on top of it. Like, the second it comes in, I'm on them because like, I just like, it's obsessive. And so, but then when I started and then. So you can be really successful. Like, I think I was probably, I would say When I was a not even mediocre skilled sales rep, I was making 30 grand a month, right. Through force of will.

And what was. And I think average in that. In that industry, when you were making 30 grand a month, what was the majority of Everybody else making?

5 to 7. You know, that was, like, in my company, you know, so. And then. Then when I. When I started getting good, I went to 100 very quickly because. But I was quite, like, strategic in the approach of how I got good. Like, I didn't change things that I thought were good until I changed the things that were bad. And I'm like. Because I was a sniper, there's a. There's a very disciplined approach to shooting, which I think, like, served me very well in business. Like, because when you're shooting, like, you never, like amateur shooters will, like, would do what's called chasing rounds. So you'll do a shot. It goes top left. You adjust the scope, do a shot. It goes down here. You just. The scope, you don't do that. You shoot four or five rounds, right? And then you change off the group. But what that means is that you're. You're essentially missing your target. And then you keep missing your target intentionally so that you can adjust and then definitely hit the target. Right. This is like when you're on the range, right. And you do that so that when you're out doing the real thing, you don't miss. Right. So, like, you know, there's a lot of discipline involved in. In knowing that you're wrong, but maintaining the hold so that you can gather more data and know that the one adjustment you do make is correct.

Interesting, right?

Like, there's a disciplined approach in that. If I make a shot and it misses and a gust of wind, like, halfway down blew it off course, that was a gust of wind. Do I make an adjustment? No, because it was a gust of wind.

Right, Right.

So, like, if it's a sustained wind, you know, but, like. So you've got to minimize your variables. And so there's a great book called the Hard Thing about Hard Things. And the synopsis is, the hard thing about hard things is doing things is only. Is only fixing one thing at a time. And I think it's the most important thing that salespeople or business people have to learn is that, like, the discipline comes in seeing 10 things that are wrong, but only fixing one, really fixing one, and then fixing the second. Because, like, if I'm trying to fix someone's sales and, like, let's just say their openers are really bad, right? And then they also, you know, the middle of their script needs tweaking. This. If I tweak all those things at once, right. I do not know what did it. So what I have to do is just tweak the opener. Because the opener is like the top of the pyramid, right? Like if, if, if that's, like, if that angle is. If it's good, the angle's wide, okay? Because then, like, everyone will get down, you know? I mean, like, if it's, if it's bad, you're gonna knock a bunch of people out because you have a shitty opener, right? You know, so, like, your opener is like incredibly important, especially for like, like final expense. Like, so if you just spend three months becoming the best at your opener and do nothing else but focus on that, you will make five times the cash because, like, you will have five times the people that hear your pitch.

Yeah. Well, you'll have more opportunity for conversations. But the word discipline is so important in telesales. I, I don't, I don't think it's just limited to final expense, but one of the things that I think is really difficult to teach is discipline in having restraint after asking a question. How often have you seen sales reps want to ask a really good question and then immediately keep talking and volunteer multiple choice answers or keep overselling? What was the point of. Do you see that? I see that all the time.

Yeah. Yeah. There's a. I think, I think that comes from, like, you hear a lot of people do things like. So what I'm hearing you say is, I don't like that. The reason is, is because I sell exactly like I talk. Right now there is, it's indistinguishable from normal conversation. It's probably a little bit faster, but that's about it. So I don't do anything that you wouldn't do in a normal conversation. And so if someone says, if you went to a bar and you were like, hey, can you get me a burger and fries? And your friend said, so what I'm hearing you say is that you want a burger and fries. You'd be like, all right, weirdo. Or be like, so when you say you want a burger and fries, what burger and fries do you want? Like, you would never say that. You would just go, oh, I'm a.

Devil'S advocate to that. Because in that context you would be a weirdo. However, in other personal situations where I've had friends or family come to me and want my help and maybe solving A personal problem or a problem with business, and they're just feeding me a lot of information before I come in and try to offer my suggestions or try and solve the problem. I do repeat what I heard to make sure that I got it. And that is outside of a context of sales. And it sounds very nice.

For sure. Yeah, I think, Yeah, I think you would, for sure. You can do like a, Like a, you, you can do summaries. I'm not saying that you can't do that, but I think, like, people are using it because their gears are turning, right? And if you tell me I'm doing that because my gears are turning, I'll go, fair enough. When you, when you, when you do more, you'll, you'll, you'll. You'll think faster. You know, like, the, the, the, the best analogy for that is, like, you go to a fancy restaurant, there's 20 people, and the waiter doesn't have to write it down. Okay. He's not a genius. He's just done it a lot, right? So, like, he has a memory mechanism of how to do that. Right. I have a phenomenal memory. I probably couldn't do that. You know, like, so it just comes with sort of practice. But I think people use a lot of. They use a lot of filler words and they justify their questions. They go, so I'm just curious, like, when, when you say. And it's like, there's, you know, I, I would. I don't ever say that stuff. Like, I just go, oh, why is that? So I use a very small amount of words. And one of the reasons I do that is because, like, every single time I ask a question, it's going to be one of three outcomes. Good, bad, or neutral. And so the less words I use, the less chance I have of screwing up. Right? And sort of, if my questions are really targeted and, and quite specific, then, like, I have a much lower chance of them being bad. You know, I can live with. Yeah.

In addition to those more direct why is that? Questions, one of the things I've also noticed that you do when I've listened to your, like, mock role plays is you're very good at interjecting. So you'll hear something that someone says, and instead of letting them finish their sentence, you're like, but why is that. Have you noticed in your roleplays? Is that intentional or is that just.

Yeah, yeah, no, it's very intentional because, like, if I, if I'm happy with what they've said, I, I don't need to Hear the next bit, because the next bit may or may not benefit me. And if I know that bit benefited me, then I'm going to use that bit. And I, I, I'm not, I, I, I'm not good enough to change anyone's mind, right. Like I tried in my wife many times. It's not happening. But people can change their own mind. And so if there's an idea that I, that they have that I like, I'm going to make them justify it because by them, like when someone, when I sell someone, I, they will tell me at least 10 to 15 times throughout that call, right? Why, like in their words, their idea, why they, why they want to do it, why they have to do it, why they need to do it. Right. By the way, you've gone out of focus. I don't know if you can see that. So you might want to touch your camera, camera lens.

That's okay. You keep talking, I'll fix me.

Yeah, yeah. So like, I, you know, like I'm gonna, I'm gonna make them do it a lot, right. And the reason is, is because, like, it's all those little things. There we go. That's better. All those little things throughout the whole process that like, it just makes it an easy sale because it's their idea.

My ideas, on the same token, because I agree with a hundred percent of everything you said and I really hope my team is watching this. On the same token, if I hear anything that is like an objection in disguise.

Yeah.

I'll make them tell me why they don't just do that then.

Yeah, exactly.

So, but you, why do you think people are uncomfortable with that? So for, for, for an example in final expense insurance, I might, I might find out that someone says, you know, my, my son is a millionaire. Right? Here's a crazy. My son's a millionaire. But I really want to make sure I have, you know, insurance so he doesn't have to pay for it. So to me, that's objection.

Why is that? Your son, your son's got, you could just, you could just leave it to him. What's, what's the big deal?

So tell, I don't want to do that.

Why not?

Tell me why your son, why you wouldn't just let your son pay for it. Because I already know that's what you're going to tell me at the end. Well, that's too expensive. My son's just going to pay for it. So it's also about like identifying not just why someone likes something, but also paying attention to clues to get them why they wouldn't do their plan B or whatever. The objection is that you.

Exactly. And you've got to. And you've got to say it in like a, you know, a bit, a little bit playful or a little bit curious. Well, why don't just do that? That sounds like a pretty good plan.

Exactly. Oh, I love that.

And then they're. And they're going to be like, well, I just don't want to be, you know, I just don't want to leave that. Well, like, why not that? Like, you know, like, what's the big deal? I just don't want to be a burden. How so? You know, and then it's like. And that speed is like I, I, like I don't leave any white space. Like it's very like, because like there's a bunch of reasons for that. It's quite hard to do. Like, it takes a lot of practice. But like once you do it, it's like, you know, you can be a much less skilled rep. But if you can do it that quickly, like it, it's, it puts. Conversationally puts people off balance. So like, it's very hard for them to keep up because like, I'm used to talking like that. They're not. And so like it becomes really.

So communications I'm hearing are. Are lacking. Also what I believe is lacking is just maybe this has to do with communication skills, but just a general sense of curiosity. Like why would someone.

Yeah, big time.

And then people just not paying attention. Like what I'm calling clues. Do you believe that's kind of one and the same? The, the not being curious where something is coming from?

Well, you know, I, I think that they just. So they, they put the con. They. This is one of the, the, the interesting things when you've had the conversation 4,000 times, right. Like you assume you know what they're talking about and so, and that's what kills people because like in the very beginning they might ask those questions a little bit like quite natively like, oh, what do you. What do you mean? Because they don't know. But again, asking a question is. Is a brave thing to do when you're actually don't know the answer. Asking questions is brave, right? Because you're like, oh, what do you mean? Because you're going like, huh, what are you talking about? Twice so many people like, I don't. I got to go Events. You're probably the same. I ask a lot of questions. Yeah, right. I'm an events. Raise my hand. Hey, what do you mean? Like, I don't understand that. Yeah, I mean, and everyone else has the same question. They just don't. They just pretend like they. Oh, oh yeah, I get that. You know, but that's how you get the most, like out of stuff. But you know, there's a vulnerability to it. I suppose you could say so. But then when you've had the conversation a lot of times you go, I've heard this shit before. And it's like, well, you haven't because that person's a different person. You never spoken to them. Like, so you have to, it's a difficult thing to do. You have to sort of forget everything and then be really curious because you're talking to a new person.

Exactly.

You know, and so like, you know, like if we start having a conversation about my hand and I go like, describe my hand to me, you know what I mean? But we're going to have the same conversation. Like, if you don't ask me what side of the hand I'm looking at, we're having different conversations. So like I would go, well, what side of the hand what I'm looking at or what you're looking at? Because like if I don't ask that question, we're having a different conversation. And a lot of people are not having the same conversation they think they're having because.

Yes.

Yeah, they're not, they're not picking up.

On the things the, the sales having the conversation of really the script. The customer is having the conversation really kind of telling them everything they need to know. And then they're just, they're just, they're.

Just filling in the gaps. But the gap, they're not filling it in properly because it's a different person. And so like you don't know. And I think like people, people don't realize, like we have such an interesting job, you know, a lot of people don't sit down and speak to their partner for an hour. Like, you know, like having a one on one conversation, like what we're having right now, like eye to eye, whatever it may be, like is, is a rarity in society. Like we do it a lot because we do it for a job, you know, but those people don't, you know, especially older people thought about that, that.

People aren't really having sit conversations. That's really not happening.

Yeah, yeah, they're not. And, and so, you know, like we get to do that for a job. And, and so people are like inherently interesting. Even the most uninteresting person, if you Sit down and really speak to them. You'll find some interesting about them, you know what I mean? And so like, you've got to kind of like, I guess see the, the interestingness of what you do, which is like, I talk to strangers for a living, right? And like, you get to find some insight out about people. You get to find some interesting about people that you're never gonna meet before. And I find that kind of like, interesting and cool. And like, I like, you know, navigating. I like navigating that, you know, like I was sitting down here, I'm at a, I'm at an event right now and like, you know, sitting down, like at the fire pit yesterday, old guy sits next to me. I was like, hey, man, what are you doing here? You know, he's like this. We chat for like half an hour.

That's cool. And it was like, I'm going to ask you a hot seat question.

Yeah, go for it.

A lot of my obsession for sales really came when I, when I took the NEPQ course. I was always good at sales. Kind of like you just kind of naturally good, I think because of my communication skills kind of just allowed me to sail and do fairly well. But NEPQ was really the first formal sales course I invested in. And of course you, and, and everybody there played a, an incremental role in my success. But you left.

Yeah. Yeah.

Tell us why, why you left seventh level.

There's a lot of reasons, really, but like, the main one being like, you know, I, I just, I didn't, I didn't see what they saw, you know, in terms of, like, where it was going to go. You know, I was like, I was, you know, the numbers guy sort of, you know, and, and so I just didn't see it. And then, like, I didn't want to, to have to. I think also, like, you know, the CEO role, like the founder, CEO role is different than like, you know, I was a significant equity stake owner and I was a CEO, but the CEO of like a business like that is just a different role than what I like. I'll, I'll, I would, I'll never do it again. Like, I'm, I'm, I, I'm the most entrepreneurial out of like, all the people there, right? Like, I'm the true entrepreneur. The other guys are like, entrepreneurs, right? And we've had that conversation. Like, it's a new thing, right? We've all discussed that, right? So, like, like, I'm, I'm a true entrepreneur. Like, I, if you Give me a phone that like, that's all I need to start a business. And I can start a million dollar a year business. You give me 30 days, I go shooting, right? Like, and I've done that multiple times. And so like I'm a builder and so I was sort of, but, but I'm also, you know, I'm six two, I'm 240, covered in tattoos, used to kill people for a living. So like I'm sort of. People find me a little bit intimidating. And so like I was also like the bad guy, right? A little bit like the heart of the business in terms of like the staff, you know, I mean like the mentor. But like salespeople are inherently like lost souls, right? And a lot of them don't have strong father figures. And I am a strong father figure, you know, for a lot of these 20 year old guys, you know. And so they, they, they, they are drawn to me because like I am the strong male, you know. And so that's what salespeople are. And so I had a super loyal, you know, group of people. But I was, you know, I think I was becoming a far worse person. I think I was becoming a worse dad, I think I was becoming a worse husband because I was, you know, forced to be the type of person you have to be to sort of, you know, do that role long term is just not the person that I want to be in, you know, like I am a builder, I am creative, I am like chaos. And you can't be that if you're the CEO. You can be that as like the fun founder that comes in, bounces out and just does whatever the he wants. You can do that, which is great. And at Sales Sniper, that's what I was. I was just a hardcore leader, right? You know what I mean? And just led from the front, hopped on the phones, sold the shit out of everything and just was like, come on boys, follow me. Right? But when you're, you know, CEO of an entity like, like, like seventh, it's more of like a lead from the rear, right? You're more steering the boat and there's a lot more. It's compliance and lawyers and accountants and discipline and you know, hr. And I was just like, it's just not who I am. And I had to do it because I was the most adult in the room. Right.

You know, I definitely have a better, clearer picture of it just wasn't long term MATT WRITER So I knew it.

Wasn'T going to be like, I knew that, I knew that going In I, I knew like there would come a time where, like I, and I'd said that multiple times. There comes a time where I'm, I'm not going to, to do this. Like, because, you know, like, also I, I don't like, you know, the average run of a CEO is two years, right? And there, and so, and there's a lot of reasons for that. But you know, the main reason is like you, you, you, if you grow something, if, if every month is a new high, like, you're ultimately unqualified constantly, you know, and like everyone is. Which is why, like, you know, one of my best mates worked for me for a long time and he was like our, you know, head of operations. And he said, this is one of my best friends. He said, what do I have to do to become the CEO? I said, you have to quit. And he's like, what do you mean? I said, well, mate, like, you know, you didn't really have any business experience. You came in, you've done fantastic, you've grown up with the business. But like, you know, we can't have an entire leadership team where every month is an unknown because we've never, because we've grown, say every month or every quarter or every year. Like, we have to bring in people that have done bigger things, right? So that, so that we, you know, otherwise like everyone, we're just inventing shit. And it's like this has been done, like people know what to do and it's not, that's not us. So like, you know, like, you know, am I going to be the CEO of a hundred million dollar a year revenue business? Fuck no. And like, if our dialer, which I think is, it's, I'm a hundred percent confident is the best dialer on the planet. Like, I'm sure we will sell, I know I'll sell it for a hundred million. Right? And software is a bit different, but like, you know, if, if the dialer gets up to a $50 million revenue, which, fuck, I hope I'm nowhere near it when it does. I would have sold it long before that. But like, there's no fucking chance. Me and my business partner are in the C suite. I am so unqualified to run a large software company. But I can start one.

How much?

I can start one like a. Do you know what I mean? Like, right, like, but the guys who can run that cannot start one.

That's interesting. Okay, so let's transition to that then. So you have now started SDR call center. And I've been Following you from the beginning when you've been building it and announcing sort of what your plans were. So give us the 10,000 foot view of what SDR call center is, who your target market is and what you're trying to accomplish from just a B2B or, or B2C.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. So like, you know, when I, when I sort of left seventh, like, the biggest problems that we had was the dialer was really like. And there is no good one. Like we tried them all from Alaware to Kixie to like you name, like, they're all shit because they're all running off the Twilio network and it's ultimately doomed to fail anyway. So like, I was like, okay, so I've got to be able to. There's gotta be a way to fix it. Because I was like, there's no. My thought was there's no way call centers can do that and win. Turns out they, they sort of can, as long as they're dodgy, but the real ones can't, right? And so I was like, okay. So I just went kind of deep in the matrix and like, why. And then that brought me down, like the whole road of like the telecommunication system and compliance. And I was like, oh my God. All the rules that were breaking. Jesus Christ. Like, I just, it was terrifying. It was terrifying. And so, you know, that was. And then I was like, oh, okay, this is a good angle, you know, because the hole in the market was everyone hates their SDRs, which is like people outbanding the leads for them, right? Everyone hates that. It's a shitty position a lot of the time because it's like entry level, so it's high turnover. By the time you get them good, they'll want to be closers, you know what I mean? Like, and like, and the dialer systems are inefficient. So like, half the reason why they can't make money in that role really is because the dialers are inefficient. They're struggling to have more than five or six conversations a day. So I was like, if I can fix that and I can find like cheap SDRs, I was like, I can use the SDR pain because everyone knows their pickup rates are low. But I don't think anyone's going to believe me that I can magically fix it, right? So if I start a call center, then I can get all the data I need and I can figure out the dialing side at a super high volume very quickly. Because everybody hates SDRs and I have Enough trust in the market to be able to just grab at least a few hundred thousand dollars a month with the revenue. And we did 300k month one. Right. So like, like I, I pre. Sold a fair like 30 accounts or something like that. Right. So I was like, sweet.

Are you working with now What?

Insurance, solar, CRMs, software, coaching.

Are they selling it from start to finish? Are they kind of making appointments or what's the role?

So we do a couple things. One is like live transfers to agents, like for insurance. Right now we're doing like live transfers. We're doing like in home appointments for things like solar and H vac. So we booked in home appointments. There's one where we do like, like paid appointments. So we get the leads and it's like 29 bucks for an appointment. Generally speaking, we're sticking to that More appointment setting.

Appointment setting, transfer, not the actual close deal done.

No, that's. It's not really what we're like, we can, but it would just depend on the product. It couldn't be like, you know, I wouldn't want to make it a really hard, you know, I wouldn't want to do like a difficult sale. But if it was sort of like, you know, lay down city, they could, they could probably go. All right. The whole point of what I've tried to say is like, they're just okay. They're pretty good. They're fine. Right? Like we're not, we're not making killers, you know, but the position doesn't have to be. And there's no such thing as a rockstar outbounder, like rockstar sdr, you know, they're not the front man. That's the sales guy.

Sure.

Right. So like, you want a sales guy, go to sales guy. Right? You want, you know, you want a rock star, go find one. Good luck. You know what I mean? So like they're not in that position. And so. But if I can get someone who's pretty good and then they're on a dialer. My guys have 40 conversations a day.

What's your answer rate right now?

About 20 to 25%.

Okay. And then the size businesses that are like your sweet spot. Spot. Do any like single, you know, agents come to you or is it more agencies or.

So we have, we have a minimum is three seats. Right. Which is like most others, to be honest. Like three seats. We'll probably change that in the future. But like right now, like, logistically, it just doesn't make any sense. And we got people as right now. I think our Biggest contract that I'm getting signed at the moment is 300 seats. Right. I would say the average is going to be five. Right. You know, maintain like teams of five. Come on, they got outbounders because like, you know, or that. And that, that answer rate is dialed to pick up. That's not like lead to contact. Lead to contact. Some of the guys have upwards of 70%, you know what I mean? But again, there's a lot of variables that go in that. But like we have a speed to lead system where like the moment a lead is generated, it's called. So our dialing system is like an automatic dialing system. So the agent doesn't choose who to dial. We, we pre program how it works. You can go in and like, you know, manually dial, but like, we pre program how it works and then like, and then there's a lot of stuff that goes into it, like a lot of things. But. And then we've been able to maintain at very high volumes. I'm talking like $15,000 a day, right. For a single account, like volume, like you know, 20% plus pickup rates from a single dollar to pick up. Right. So you know, if they're doing, you know, if our average agent does say 350 a day. Right. So 350 a day, they have a 20 pickup rate. They're having roughly 60 to 65 people pick up the phone and then they're having you know, a conversation over 15 seconds of say like 50 and then over two minutes of say like, you know, 30. Right. Okay, yeah, we track that 20 to 30. Right. So like, you know, so like it's a lot of conversations, you know, that's a lot more than most.

What I where I'm hearing the biggest benefit for, you know, again, life insurance teams would be they could generate the best Internet leads in the world. But if they can't call them efficiently enough or if they're using a dialer that has spam detection, they're not going to be as efficient as if they were able to use what you've created to maximize the opportunity.

Yeah, well, it's like, you know, your biggest lever as a single rep, if you're doing outbound is your pickup to conversation rate. Right. Like from a skills perspective, that is the biggest thing. But before that is the pickup rate. Now there are things that you can do, I think like manually that you can track your pickup rate per time of day. I can tell your agents right now, nine to 11, right. Wednesday, Thursday and about five to seven, Wednesday, Thursday are The most efficient times to outbound out, like, like generally speaking, right. Mondays and Fridays are pretty average. Tuesdays is okay. But Wednesdays and Thursdays are your, like, that's your money. And 9 to 11 seems to be the best all around, right. I don't know why that's what it is, right. So, you know, but you, you can track that and you can track your days and your pickups and you can kind of like maximize. But at the end of the day, like, a lot of pickup rates are 3 to 5%. So like, you know, then you have to start breaking rules. And rules are very, very expensive if you get co breaking them, you know, 500 per instance, you know, so it's, it's a, it's a serious game, you know, and they're handing out fines right now pretty left, right and center because there's all kinds of incentives for like. So if you call someone on the do not call list, you know, they get 30% of the fine.

It blows my mind right now. The amount of bad information that is circulating the insurance industry about best practices. And they don't even know the rules by state, you know.

Did you know triple, triple dialing is the number one thing that gets you spam flagged? It's also illegal.

Yeah. I mean, I could talk about compliance all day. We have a compliance attorney that has really helped us navigate everything that we're doing from the moment we started. And I just sit back and look at everybody just crazy now. The problem is they're too small, a lot of these single agents to really ever get caught. Right? Because what they're.

But they're not though, because. Because you get caught by the, the one person you dial and then people you dial. The people you dial, the ones that dub you in. The system doesn't catch you. The system sees everything you're doing. Right? But the thing is, like, they don't. There's too many phone calls being done for them to give a shit about, like, trying to catch you. You know what I mean? But everything's logged and they see. And the more rules you break, the more numbers will be burned, right? Because every time you break a rule, it's like logged in the system and then it like, it just burns your numbers to the point where the FTC will do an FTC flag, which is where your numbers stop ringing, right. And just go straight to voicemail. But you don't know that. But. Right, but you just think you have like a 0.5% pickup rate for some reason. Right. And the only Ones that pick up are like landlines. But. So. Yeah, and. But like, it's the person. Right, so the person. It's very easy to file a TCPA complaint, and there are lawyers that do it for you. And then what they do is they then find out who called you, they trace it back, then they get the call records. Okay. Because that's public information that you can just very easily get. And then from there they go, okay, there's, you know, say, 400 fines here. That's $200,000 worth of fines. They go, we'll get everyone together, we'll do a class action and say, hey, you either pay us a hundred thousand dollars or we're going to put the few hundred thousand dollars with the fines in.

Right, exactly. It's.

I had that happen to. I've had that happen to a client. Wow.

Wow. So how can people contact you, Matt, if they want to see if they can utilize SDR call center to help them in their business?

Yeah, yeah. So you can just go to SDR call center dot com. We have a contact form, and you just kind of go through there. And one of my guys will reach out, have a chat, and then they book them with me. I think I'll be. The amount of inquiries I have, though, I'll be definitely be adding someone soon onto the thing. I think I had like 64 calls booked like last week or something, so.

And no one's onboarding process of that?

No, no, no. I've got. I've got a team doing that. But, like, I do the sales. But in saying that, it's not really sales, it's like, hey, what do you do? This is what we do. Do you want to do it? Yep. Sweet. All right, cool. Like, if. If. No. Okay. Let me know when you want to. Have a good day. Bye.

I mean, I really do think that you've positioned yourself in general. It already is building up so much credibility. Like you. You can relate to the sales professional because that's who you are. You know, the pain. Right. In order to solve problem, you have to be able to identify with the pain. You've done an excellent job at that. Really excited to see the post. When you sell your business for 100 million.

Yeah, me too. And that'll be the last post you ever see. That'll be like, that'll be me erased. That'd be me erased from the Internet. I'd be like, and I'm out.

All right, so if there's one piece of advice as we end this interview that you can give to sales people that are just banging their heads against the wall, struggling with trying to make it in the business. What do you generally tell people?

You know, I think. I think. I think the main problem is people don't think through their problems. You know, Like, I think if you thought about it, you'd figure it out. And it doesn't mean you're not working hard, but it means you're working really dumb because you haven't thought about it. And, like, when I say that, it's like, just sit down. Like, sales training is one thing. I think people should do it. It's great. But sit down and figure. Like, think through your problem. You know, like, it's such an underrated thing. Like, I. Like, you just have to think about it. Like, when I was getting better at trying to get good at sales, like, I would look at my script and I would go, like, I wrote it out exactly. Like, I'm gonna say it. I had my own inflections. I had all that written out. And then I would go, like, like, what's gonna happen when I say that? And then, you know when you have, like, an argument in your head with someone in the shower that you. From a conversation you had four years ago. Right. Like, we'll role play every iter. Yeah, role play every iteration and really think about it. And then, like, when you get, you know, when you get reactions, go, man, like, why am I getting that? And think through it. Like, don't just come on salestring and ask questions. Like, it's just so stupid. It's just so dumb. Like, because the information's in your head, you just have to, like, sit there and go, I wonder why that's happening? And then, like, what can I do to prevent it or use it? And like, like, sit down, write it out. I'm like, you know, come up with ideas and come up with some, like, strategies. And then go, I'm going to try this one this week. And then you try and you go, what happened when I did that? You know, like, use the scientific method. Because just think. So many people just go, what's the answer? And think about it. Like, you tell me the answer. Because, like, tell me. And if you're wrong, like, let's talk about why you're wrong. And maybe you're not. Maybe I'm wrong. Why don't you try it?

They have better leads than I do.

Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. You know, like, there's two types of people in the world. Types of people that see every problem as an obstacle and there's types of people that see every obstacle as an opportunity. So every obstacle is a problem, and people see every obstacle is an opportunity.

Yeah.

And only one of those people makes money. Because, like, I, I, I can honestly say, like, my. This is an honest thing. I'm not, like, doing the motivational thing. Like, when, when there's something really bad happens, I go, huh, Interesting. Like, that's. And I go, all right, well, how do we fix this? Like, that's what I say. I go, well, how do we. How do we fix it? Or like, okay, okay, how do we. All right, what are we going to do? You know, like, because every single time something bad has happened to me, something very good has come from it.

Sure.

Like, and I don't think that's. It's not an accident. It's because, like, I, I'm physically trying to go, like, all right, well, I got screwed here, or I did this. Like, that was a phenomenal lesson. Like, so now I get to use that lesson for this. And it's like, all right, well, that's, that's, that's not too bad. And then it's like, okay, well, let's. Let's go. Let's go do. Let's go do this. You know, and so, you know, but so many people, they just go like, oh, no. You know, somebody puts a traffic cone in a parking spot and it stops them from parking there. Who put the traffic cone there? Just move it. Seriously. I was, I was at a construction. There's like, like, on my street, the construction guys who were doing something had put all the things like, oh, you can't park them. And I go, I definitely can. And so I got out, I moved the thing, and he goes like, I go, no, you put this here so you can park here because it's more convenient for you. I go, I happen to live here, so I don't give a fuck. And he was like, oh, no. He was like, oh, no. You know, he was like, they didn't fall for the trick. Like, it's not real. It's pretend.

Yeah.

You know, so it's like, just move the cone, you know, and so, you know, I think people just really, they look at problems as, like, these just things that are going to stop them from doing things, but it's just not just a problem to solve. Like, anyone can solve any problem. Fucking Elon Musk just caught a skyscraper.

Right.

You know what I mean? If he can do that whilst bringing out robots that are eventually going to kill us and then saving us by sending us to Mars. What a play. By the way, bring a bunch of robots are going to take over Earth and then charge us to go to Mars. What a beautiful. What a beautiful business model, you know, but like, if he can do that in the same 24 hours a day that you have, you can figure out how to do final expense sales. Promise you.

Thank you, Matt, so much for being here.

No worries.

Very much.

Appreciate it, appreciate it.