A Series of Incoherent Interruptions

Hey, James. Knock, knock.

Who's there?

An interrupting cow.

An interrupting.

No. All right, guys, welcome to the podcast. Another episode of Coffee is for Closers. It's me and James today. Yes. This is where you say, hello, James.

Hey, guys, how we going?

There we go. Today we're talking about interruptions. How dare you. This is a good way to start. Now. Today we're talking about interruptions till tactfully.

Into what?

Interrupt. How dare you. You got me, you son of a bitch. We're going to talk about tactfully interrupting. How to make sure that we prevent unproductive tangents.

If you listen to this podcast, you will make your first million within three years. I'm going to repeat that. You will make a million dollars within three years of the first episode. You listen to. We don't want pikers. We're not here to save the manatees. We're here to make podcasts. You really want this? You listen and review. Put that coffee down.

Alrighty. Interruptions. Let's chat about them. So it's really ideas. It's a question that we get a lot. And this isn't. I'm not saying that in the. In the form of a. Of an Instagram person says they get asked about their skincare routine. It actually is a question that we get brought up a lot in coaching calls. And how do we tactfully interrupt people? How to make sure that we don't go on tangents, and what happens when we have a tangent.

And more importantly, how do we interrupt someone correctly without coming across as a dick? Which you'll probably notice me do a few times.

Yeah, exactly. So there's a couple of good ways to interrupt. Well, first of all, talk about tangents and why they're so incredibly unproductive. And the. I guess what happens when you allow people to go on tangents throughout a sales goal. And really the biggest thing is that you just. I'm not Tony Robbins, so I can really only speak for myself and my abilities to carry heavy emotional conversations for long periods of time. But really, like, I can't do it for an hour and a half. So I try and keep my sales scores between 30 and 45 minutes, that's really the time that I think is, like optimal for it. And so if a. If a tangent goes for 2, 3, 4, 5 minutes, and some tangents can go for like 10, 15 that I've heard. We were doing a review of one of our sales guys calls, and he went on like a 15 minute tangent because they had a lot in common. Which is a bit of a trap. We can talk about that later. The rapport trap. But it just means that the things that you actually need to get out the way are just getting pushed back. And any real good work that you did at the beginning of the call, that's getting further and further and further away from where you are now. And it's difficult for people to like recall that or it's difficult for people to, I guess it's just difficult for us as salespeople and our business owners to hold that emotion the whole way through. And it just becomes a really, really difficult game to play. And that's why I think tangents are just incredibly unproductive.

Yeah. So going on tangents is. Sales reps use that as a way to I guess build rapport. But going on those tangents, as you're building that rapport, you're losing the pain of the reason why they're on the call. Because you're taking away from that area that you've built up and built up that pain to overcome down the track.

Yeah, exactly. And it's really, it's a huge, it's a huge low hanging fruit, I think, for people to fix. So the way to fix it quickly without learning about deflections and interruptions and all that kind of stuff and how to, how to do that properly. But the best way to do it is have a listen to your calls and then try to get your word economy better and say things in the most eloquent way and only allow them to say things that are ultimately the most productive to get them back onto that sort of yellow brick road of sales. And so what I mean by that is if you're having a conversation and you're chatting about someone's goals or you're chatting about someone's problems, you don't want to uncover too many problems because that's going to cause, think about it, it's going to cause a lack of clarity. And tangents have a way of uncovering more and more and more, which is good to a point. But when I was coaching Dan the other day, Dan's one of our junior sales reps, he was uncovering all kinds of problems. And his calls were going for like 90 minutes and his triage calls were going for half an hour and they're supposed to be like 15 minutes. And so I said, okay, yeah. He goes like, I really just want to make sure I uncover, get all the good information. And I said, well, what are you considering to be good information? He goes, well, problems. I Go, okay, man, that's fair. I said, but what happens when you have uncovered too many problems? He goes, you have a lack of clarity. I said, okay, and what do you need to make a decision? You need clarity, clarity. I said, okay, so we really doing ourselves a service by uncovering so many problems and allowing them to talk about so many different things that we make them so unsure of themselves and their own decision making process that they're probably not going to buy. He was like, that's a pretty good point. I was like, yeah, man, we need to just stick to one or two things. That's really all we need to do and not let them go on all these tangents where they talk about their brother and their mother and their cousins, but we need to keep it to, we're not there to be their friend, we're there to be an advisor and we're there to talk to them about specific things and we could build rapport, but we have to keep a leash on it. And like James, you probably had this before, right, where you, you're talking to someone and they're kind of saying your thing and they go, so anyway, how annoying is that? It is. Oh man, it's so aggravating. So we need to interrupt people effectively and we need to do it in a way that makes them feel heard. Because in sales you have to feel heard. If you're not feeling heard, then the person isn't going to get your problems. They're not going to understand you. You're just not going to, you're not going to become a trusted advisor. And so the way that I do it and the way that we teach interruption training in the closing code, link in description, first week, only a dollar, pretty crazy deal.

Good deal.

I know, right? Is that I teach people to go, okay, well that, that makes sense. You, you'd sort of mentioned this. Do you mind if I ask you about that? And we wait for like a moment of pause in their breath, the moment they're not talking and you have to do it and go, okay, okay, that makes sense. You sort of asked about this and so what you're doing is you're, they know that you're listening and then you're absorbing what they're saying and you're just asking them to clarify about a certain point that they've said so that they go back onto it. So if you've got this like straight line, as Jordan Belfort would put it, or the yellow brick road or whatever, basically the, the fastest point between two lines is always a Straight line. So if this is where they're starting and we're trying to get them to a sale, they're going to go like this. But we need to make those like peaks and troughs as small as possible so that we can sort of carry it as fast as possible. And so if the tangent goes that way, we need to sort of get them back on track as quick as possible. And how we do that is through those tactful interruptions like oh, okay, that makes sense. Now the key to doing that is actually listening to them. Because if you're not really listening to them and you don't have a quiet mind, then you're going to miss a lot of things. That's why I have cards actually, by the way, for those of you who see. So anyway, yeah, I know that was a terrible interruption. I actually had a conversation with my wife about it because I was talking and she goes, so anyway, and I, I said, oh my God, you have to not never do that again because that is a great way to not influence people into doing what you want. So if you're going to interrupt me, do it this way. And ever since then she's done it because she sees that it gets a far more productive outcome. Yeah.

And you could see just there for the guys watching this on the video, Matt's immediate body language. As I said that.

Yeah, I was like you.

And that's what people think. Because it feels like when you say so anyway, it feels like you aren't listening to them or they feel that you're not listening to them, you're not involved in their conversation because you're just waiting to butt in and talk about something you want to talk about as opposed to being with them in the conversation.

Yeah, absolutely. I think the key to sales. Who is that talking to? I think it was, might have been Dan again because I don't take notes during calls. I recommend it, I don't, I think it's a good idea. But for me I really struggle to take notes and listen. It does the opposite effect for me. So I have a quiet mind, strategy of cards. So as you can see, for those of you looking at home, you can't really see that it's behind, you know, two little funny things, one handed cuts, perfect shuffles, fans, all that kind of stuff.

Right. The pen.

Yeah, I used to do the pen stuff.

I do take notes.

Yeah, I don't like taking notes. So if ever I'm doing even, even a zoom call, I have it down here like this. And then I'm sort of doing my Zoom call like that. And for those of you who wonder, this is the clothes that I wear when I do Zoom calls. I pitched a hundred thousand dollar deal to a corporate the other day wearing this exact outfit.

You didn't wash it either?

No. Now I haven't even changed. So yeah, I always wear hats. I like hats. It makes me comfortable. I've worn a hat since I was a kid. It's probably a subconscious pathological need to wear them at this stage. It makes me feel safe or something, I don't know.

Tell me more about your hats. Tell me about.

I got a lot of hats, man. I only wear one brand and that's Mitchell and Ness because they're the best.

Can you. Now you see how you started going on a tangent there about hats? And it's now unproductive to the audience.

Sales call people love talking about themselves, right. So it's so easy to get them to talk about shit like that. But it was, that was entirely unproductive for everybody. That was, except for me because I like, I like talking about my hats. I'll have to do a bit of a thing on my little cabinet over there with all my military stuff.

Going back as we started talking about those hats, do you remember specifically what we're talking about five minutes ago?

No, I don't exactly.

And there could have been during the sale.

Good lesson, James. Look at that. Bring in something to the table. We might, we might have to mark this occasion. I might have to put it on Facebook. James provided value.

If you were a note taker.

14Th of August 2020. James provided value. So I just think it's a funny thing, right, because everyone talks about building rapport and how important it is and I don't really think it is that important, to be honest. I don't think people buy from you because they like you. I think people buy from you because they feel that you can solve their problems.

Absolutely.

And so you obviously can't be not liked. I think that's like, if they don't like you, they're never going to buy from you. But liking you isn't ever going to be like, oh well, it's between these two great products and one of them is way better than the other. But I really like the salesperson.

Liking them is just a bonus. Cause it makes it easier to work with them.

Exactly. And you're not going to be working with a sales guy anyway. For me, I don't, I don't build rapport and I don't do any Agendas. I just go, hey man, it's just Matt from Sales Sniper. You booked in a call with me today. What is it that you hope to get on the call? That is my opening statement that I. That's where I start, that's where I go because. And my calls are like short. I can sell a $15,000 package paid in full, good to 30 minutes. And it's because I don't. I don't do any of the faf. I don't do any of the report building, the agenda setting, any of that. I command the call through the questions that I ask.

So tell me about when you used to do that and what changed? Because I know for a fact that there was a bit of that back in your early days in sales. As. As was mine.

Yeah.

What changed?

Well, it was funny. I was used to go into the Y a lot, which I go into less these days unless I feel like I really need to. It's a good arrow to have in the quiver, if that makes sense to go into their. Why. I think you can kind of get it without asking for it, if that makes sense a lot of the time. And so I think the biggest change was sort of switching over sales dies from a more combative point of view where I needed to build a rapport to be liked because I was going to annihilate them on the back end if they said no. I feel like that's probably the biggest change. And that that change came with working with Jeremy and sort of having that more nepq, which I always forget the acronym. It's like NEURO Emotional Programming questions or something like that. I should know it because I'm like his top student. But it's, it's a great way of selling anyway. So I'd say that was a big game changer for me because when I was talking to him I was like, hey, how long are your sales calls? He's like 25 minutes. Like, okay. He's like, for what? He's like, for anything. And then I was like, well, do you get there why? He goes, what do you mean? And I was like, oh. And he's like, do you say agenda? Yeah. And he's like, no. He's like, what do you do for a poor building? He's like, why do I need to build rapport? I'm like, this guy's a savage. And he sold. He sells like millions and millions and millions of dollars a month.

He also does that over two 25 minute calls. So now it's loop one.

Is that right or a lot of the time it really depends on the product. A lot of it's like a 20 and a 25. So it's a 20 minute discovery that goes through the pain points in a 25 minute sales call which is essentially just a pitch presentation. That's it. Which we've adopted for Sirhan and we've adopted for a couple other ones. And we're going. And we're doing an account with Jeremy as partners for this guy. I won't say his name for a PR deal. And that's exactly how we'll be doing it. Which, which is great because to both Jeremy said Jeremy's a sales trainer for Google. So he's a, he's a pretty big time player, makes a lot of money. He's very good at what he does. He said he's been waiting for four years to find someone that he feels comfortable partnering with.

So that's great. Chalk that down to the 14th of the eighth when James put in that input.

Exactly. I think that was probably the key. He knew it was coming. The son of a bitch. Yeah. But I think that that's probably enough on interruption training because I think it's really productive. I think the only thing you need to do is go back through, listen to your calls and then sort of figure out on a no bullshit level was that a productive line of questioning? Did it bring me closer to the sale or did it make me feel better?

And you'll, you'll see like some of the core reviews in that inside the portal that we have the closing code where we can go into that in a bit more detail and review things as opposed to doing it on a podcast if you want that extra detail. Definitely.

Yeah. Also go into my, go into our YouTube channel. It's just Matt Ryder. There's a core. There's two core reviews in there, I believe and there's a couple of mock sales calls and a couple of real sales calls in there as well. So there's a couple of good core views in there that are quite in depth. There are long videos. They're about an hour long video because you have to hear the whole sales call plus hear me interject throughout it. So there you go. If you guys want some examples and some training for freebies or you can. Yeah, just go hit up that. Let's talk about what's happening in Sales Sniper right now. I think people seem to be someone interested in that or at least I am. I don't really give a. About the people listening actually.

Like I Get a lot of comments and people are interested to know what's happening in the business. Steal ideas and whatnot from us.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, I got a better thing to talk about.

What's that?

First hater. Let's. Oh, yeah, let's talk about that.

Call him JV because that's his initials and he is jv. Yeah. It's not the first hater, but it was the first. It was the first.

Definitely not.

It was the first public. Public hater. He went and commented on a few things on Facebook and it was pretty funny. Told me he would. Told me I clearly didn't know who I was dealing with and that he would sell circles around me. And he closes at 90%. I was like, you're a legend. I like you very much. Yeah. And then a bunch of people came, came, came to bat for us, which is always good.

Yeah. Unfortunate because he deleted all the comments before I got to see them. I woke up to it. It was like, oh no, I missed it. I would, I would have had so much fun playing with this guy.

Yeah, I do like that. It's funny. It's funny, right? Like we are, we are very much about taking the high road. Like we get like whenever a client bucks us over or whenever a salesperson fucks us over or whatever. So when anyone. Anything happens because everyone gets fucked over, like we always just go, whatever. Someone steals our stuff. We've had guys come into the business, get like two, three months of training and then just leave and then go out and sell our shit. So it is what it is. The funny thing is we, we progress our stuff quite regularly and we make so many small tweaks as we go that what they got three months ago is now probably 10 times better now because we do so many sales calls, we have so much opportunity to be able to change stuff. But I think the really interesting thing is that we're starting to sort of branch a little bit outside just the coaching industry. I had a building company approach me about training their sales staff, which is cool. They have 16 sales staff. They do about $12 million a month in sales at the moment. It's run like a 1980s coked out boiler room. So there's no tracking, no nothing. No processes, no systems, no organization, no data collection. Yeah, just.

Just a whiteboard that. Just a whiteboard. Name of the guy with the biggest dick.

Exactly.

That's pretty much it.

One of the guys did $100,000 in comms last month, so that's a bit of savagery. Good on him. What's that, like 1.1.2 million a year? Something like that. I think everyone's riding a bit of a wave at the moment though, and I think they can see it coming to an end because there's a lot of subsidies, especially in wa, where I live, which is Western Australia, a lot of government subsidies to incentivize people to buy housing. Like they've dropped stamp duty and a bunch of other things to make it easier for people to purchase. So right now there's a bit of an economic boom going on, a new house and land grabs. The WA's just got so much land that's undeveloped because nobody lives here. It's one third of Australia and has a population of like a million people. It's. So for those of you in the United States, it's one third of the continental United States with a million people living in it. So it's Oregon, Washington, California, Nevada, Colorado, probably Wyoming and Texas with a million people in it. And there's still traffic.

And the reason there's only a million people there is because it's boring as.

Yeah, it can be, that's for sure. But you know, it's less boring than some places, more boring than other places. So. But yeah. So how's the operational, that side of things going? How are you keeping up with the massive influx? By the way? We have a guy who wants us to have some sales people in the states. So you just reached out to me today. It's a good offer.

Yeah. How's it going? Is it not good? Because there's too much work to be done, hence why we're needing to hire someone to come on and take over as coo.

That's right. Let's put it on the podcast, see if anybody gets back to us. Anybody out there listening to the podcast. We're looking for a CEO. It's a pretty good salaried position with good bonus incentives, full time role, preferably in Australia. And hit us up at the mat at your sales sniper.com y o u r s a l e s s-I.

P-R.Com change that from Matt to James because you'll never get a response.

Well, that's how you know. Yep. So yeah, that'll be interesting. See if anybody gets back to us. But yeah, we really need someone to come in and admin this and make sure that we can handle. Because I get, I get. So I don't know if I can break down how our business works for people intentionally. We don't do any advertising, but we do the podcast and we do seven, 19 other pieces of content every week. So we do five on LinkedIn, five on Twitter, five on business Facebook, five on personal Facebook, and then we have a YouTube video. So that's every single week. So that's 21 pieces of content. 21 pieces of content plus a podcast, which then gets broken up into additional segment as well, which is also a YouTube video. So it's a podcast segment for remarketing. And everything we do is organic. And then I usually just boost a few posts to get some engagement for like five bucks a day. So we essentially don't really spend any money on our marketing. And everything that we do is through word of mouth, referral and content. And that's what we do. That's how we've done it. I don't. I was actually talking. We did a video shoot yesterday and I was talking to the guy and he's just like, so what do you do? I was like, I just do whatever I want. He's like, what do you mean? I was like, oh. I spent a long time trying to, like, not copy people, but, like, find out what other people were doing that was working. And then I was just like, I just can't be fucked. So I just decided to do. I'm gonna do whatever I want do. And ever since I started doing that, it's worked out much better.

Yeah. As long as I prove that in terms of content, doing what other people do, it works for them because it's them. You know what I mean? What works for us works for us because it's us. It's our personality, it's our branding and what we do. If you're trying to copy that from someone else, you're just going to fall flat on your face because you're not that person with that personality.

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see like when we. When we build the funnel. Because we're building a funnel at the moment for the closing code. So just engaged like a really good funnel builder. And then I've got a chat with a sales copywriter and it was funny because, you know Brad Lee, that guy, he invented that awesome website, He's a sales guy, right? Yeah, he's a sales trainer guy. He invented that amazing membership website platform. I can't remember what it's called, Next level or some like that. Anyway, it's really high level. No, no, it's what Jeremy uses is what Barry uses. All the, all the big players who have really, really big membership sites, that's what they use. It's all heavily protected content. It's really good. Anyway. But he just launched a sales training funnel which is like identical to Cardone's. It's hilarious. It's like the smoldering look and I. I've. I've collected more cash and done more deals. It's like, ugh. And it's funny because I think that all the stuff that I do for it is going to be like, ugh, I'm sorry, I'm not a douchebag. It's going to be very opposite.

I seen Grant Cardone. It looks like he's hired new ads people because he's just got all these ads out at the moment, whereas him photoshopped onto things as memes.

Yeah, right.

Trying to obviously change his reputation.

He's getting.

There's another one. There's another one that I saw a guy here in Australia. I think it's Sasha. It's just basically, I am Alpha. You want to be Alpha, Come do stuff with me.

I hate that man.

I remember it's not Alpha. Like, the video that he's filming it, it's like, look how good I am. And it's like an Airbnb. It's like, you don't own that building. You rented it out for a day.

The thing I hate about that is, like, when I was a personal trainer, because I'm ex military, done plenty of combat come from, like a special.

His ads out at the moment, whereas him photoshopped onto things as memes.

Yeah, right.

Trying to obviously change his reputation.

He's getting.

There's another one. There's another one that I saw a guy here in Australia. I think it's Sasha. It's just basically, I am Alpha. You want to be Alpha, come do stuff with me.

Hate that man. I remember there was not forces and I come from snipers within Special forces, which is considered the elite of the elite of the elite Alpha.

Like the video that he's filming it, it's like, look how good I am. And it's like an Airbnb. It's like, you don't own that building. You rented it out for a day.

The thing I hate about that is, like, when I was, you know, I mean, whether it is or not, I think it's probably. It's probably not true. But that's kind of the personal trainer, because I'm ex military, done plenty of combat come from, like a Special forces, and I come from snipers within Special forces, which is considered the elite of the elite of the elite. You know, I mean, whether it is or not. I think it's probably. It's probably not true, but that's kind of the perception. I just remember, we just don't take ourselves so seriously. And then I became a personal trainer. There was this one personal trainer, I don't fucking remember his name, but he had like an alpha program. And then she used to fucking ride me because I was like, what do you even know? And I remember he was gobbin off one day and I said, motherfucker, the hardest thing you've ever done is a deadlift. I go, don't fucking spout off around me about what it is being alpha and all this bullshit. I was like, you don't know anything. Anyway, he didn't like me very much, which is fair enough because I was probably kind of a prick to him, but I was young and I was impulsive. But I hate that whole alpha thing because, like, what does it even mean? Does it mean you're a dick? Like, is that what they're trying to get?

It's just an ego struck for that.

The perception. I just remember, fuck, we just don't take ourselves so seriously. And then I became a person.

You put in those ads out at you, at the center because you want to be at that center because you have a massive ego and you need to stroke that and fuel that fire.

Yeah, it's funny. So AJ Morton, who runs an awesome website Facebook group thing called A Fit Pro mentorship review, and apparently the closing code and like my particular, our sales training, my one on one and the closing code got a whole bunch of like, got an influx of, hey, buddy.

Hello, how you going, buddy?

Say buy the closing code.

Buy the closing code. Done.

Sold. Yeah. Sweet. So, yeah, AJ Morton from the Fit Pro mentorship review site reached out to us and because we had a whole bunch of really, really cool testimonials in there. And because our thing's only 50 bucks a week, he was like, they were like, holy, how are you getting all these testimonials when this thing's only 50 bucks a week? And apparently they were really good and there was about 10 or 15 of them in there. So he reached out, I had a meeting with him. And yeah, so AJ from the Fit Pro mentorship review kind of reached out to me because apparently we had a whole bunch of really, really good testimonials put in there, put into his group. So what he does is he runs a group for fitness professionals that can have a Absolutely no, it's a close. No coaches allowed. Only genuine fit pros they all get Lord choose fitness profess professionals. They all get vetted. They can't have a coaching program. They have to be in the industry. And then there are people who are looking for mentorship and people post reviews, completely honest, unadulterated reviews of experience they've had with different mentors, whether it be sales coaches, business coaches, whatever it may be. And we have apparently phenomenal reviews in there. So he reached out to me, there's about 4,000 people in there. And he was like, hey, man, I want you to be like the sales guy for it, so we're going to create a unit for you. We had a bit of a conversation, but it was funny money because going back to that whole ego thing, he's like, so why are you doing this, man? Like, it's a lot of value. 50 bucks was like, oh, I don't need the money. He was like, what? And I was like, yeah, yeah. So like, I'm a sales guy, man. Like, I make. We make money through commission. That's what we do. And then we do other stuff with sales processes. But I was like, it was. I've done so many overpriced sales courses and overpriced courses in general, in general that I was, I'm gonna release all this content at some stage. If you look at my Facebook, I mean, all you had to do is be my friend on Facebook and you'd probably get better at sales. Because we don't even do call to actions. We just have content. That's it. That's it. There's the occasional link dropped in there or something, but I mean, it's pretty rare. And actually I don't get as good a response when I do that. So I'd rather just put the content out and leave it up to people to kind of come after me, which seems to be working. And so I was just like, oh, no, I can see you. You don't actually care, do you? I was like, oh, no, I don't care. This is like a fun little thing that I do that I think, honestly my goal for it is to make the sales training in there so good and so cheap that whenever they sign up to any other coaching program for sales, they demand a refund because mine is such better value. I go, that is the goal. Because I think that will. That'll shake things up a bit. And every other sales trainer out there has to make money off sales training, whereas I don't. Because we have commissions and we have all these other stuff going on. And if we get that up to a good amount of money. That's great, but it's not really my intent. My intent is to create a cool community of people who are doing the right stuff. I've already found some good salespeople which we've employed through there. So for me it's like a win win. If it's making money, that's great.

Recruitment grant.

It's a recruitment drive. It also creates a good community. It makes my standing in the as the sales trainer really good because we're massively over providing value. So people talk about me and then eventually it'll probably be good farm work when we actually get the systemized high end sales training stuff up and running, you know, farm people for that. But it's just a good way to make some money and have fun doing it.

There will be upsells into higher level stuff, but it's not going to be, hey, we're using this as an upsell funnel because the people that get through that content, they get to a level where it's like we need more. The direction you take from there is having your calls review, doing role plays and doing one on one stuff then. And when I say there'll be upsells in there, it's like those people are going to come to us because we are the premier people to want it. Then we can have a conversation. But we're not gonna use it as leads.

Yeah, exactly. I don't want to be farming from the group. They can just. People can farm themselves. And then when I had the video shoot yesterday and we did some stuff about it and I was just saying the why I created it and it was like, I created it because like, I just want people to have a place where they can come in and help people. Because the thing about sales training is a lot of the time it's designed to, to take you too far down the rabbit hole. And if you're a business owner or a fitness professional or. And like you don't need to be a guru. Yeah, yeah. But if you don't need to, if you don't need to be a guru, you just need to be good enough. Why pay 30 grand for sales training when you just need to be good enough? That's it.

Exactly right.

And so that course is really designed to make you good enough. And there's a lot of stuff in there which is quite nuanced where if you do take it on, you' pretty damn good. Mora did some stuff about it and I was just saying the why I created it and it was Like, I created it because, like, I just want people to have a place where they can come in and help people. Because the thing about sales training is a lot of the time it's designed to. To take you too far down the rabbit hole. And if you're a business owner or a fitness professional or. And, like, you don't need to be a guru. One of the guys in there, he's closing, like, a $4,000 U.S. fitness deal. He's closing over 90%. He closed. He closed nine in a day. Yeah. Yeah. But if you don't need to. If you don't need to be a guru, you just need to be good enough. Why pay 30 grand for sales training when you just need to be good enough?

That's it. Exactly. Right.

And so that course is really designed to make you good enough. And there's a lot of stuff in there which is quite nuanced where if you do take it on, you'll get pretty damn good. Mora, one of the guys in there, he's closing, like, a $4,000 U.S. fitness deal. He's closing over 90%. He closed. He closed nine in a day.

Love it.

He was nine from 10. I know. He was eight from nine calls. Sorry, eight from nine calls in a day.

That's awesome. The other thing is, when you. When you look at it like that, right, the course is designed to take you, to get you good, good, where you can. If you have an agency, you can close all the deals you sell. You close it a high enough where it's easy.

Sorry. To end up real quick. It's actually just good to reframe that in general, whether it's us, because I don't just want to talk about our shit, but in general courses or. That's what a course is designed to do.

Right.

So there's a difference in courses and coaching. So if you're out there kind of wanting to get better at sales, you've got courses and you've got coaching. So if you've done a bunch of courses, you don't need to do any more courses, then you want to step into coaching. Yeah. So courses are designed to get you up to a level where it's like, okay, like, you're pretty good, you're manageable. Then to get from there to really good, it sort of requires someone to come in and really listen to what you're doing. There's a fair bit of nitty gritty work that has to be done. Yeah. My recommendation is if you've done loads of courses, don't Come do the closing code. You can if you want, so you can check it out. But get a coach, whether it's me or who. There's heaps of them. I'm sure a lot of them are really good. Cole Gordon's really good. I think Bella's really good. Vanessa Horn's really good. Jeremy Miner's really good. Eli's good. All these guys are good. And it's just. You just got.

Love it.

He was nine from 10. No, he was eight from nine calls. Sorry, eight from nine calls in a day.

That's awesome. The other thing is when you, when you look at it like that, right, the course is designed to take you, to get you good, good. Where you can. If you have an agency, you can close all the deals yourself. You close it a high enough where it's easy.

Sorry. It's actually just good to reframe that in general, whether it's us, because I don't just want to talk about our shit, but in general courses or that's what a course is designed to do. So there's a difference in courses and coaching. So if you're out there kind of wanting to get better at sales, you've got courses and you've got coaching. So if you've done a bunch of courses, you don't need to do any more courses. Then you want to step into coaching. Yeah. So courses are designed to get you up to a level where it's like, okay, like you're pretty good, you're manageable. Then to get from there to really good, it sort of requires someone to come in and really listen to what you're doing. There's a fair bit of nitty gritty work that has to be done. My one on one. Yeah. My recommendation is if you've done loads of courses, don't come do the closing code. You can, if you want to, you can check it out. But get a coach, whether it's me or who does heaps of them, I'm sure a lot of them are really good. Cole Gordon's really good. I think Bella's really good. Vanessa Horn's really good. Jeremy Miner is really good. Eli's good, all these guys are good. And it's just, you just got to pick a lane and kind of go down the rabbit hole. If you're looking to get really good. Because what you don't want to do is try and get really good at like six different styles of selling, just pick a style that you resonate with. If it's my style, that's great. If it's Jeremy's, if it's Coles, if it's this, if it's this, if it Eli's, who cares. Whatever you really resonate with, go down the rabbit hole on that one style because. And then figure out what products that style works best for selling. We were talking today and I was like, oh, I think we really need to do the, some of the Simon Bowen stuff because we have a client that we're like, we really weren't doing that well for. It was kind of like, okay. But it's a really, really technical sale and it's not really in the wheelhouse of what we do. And that kind of technical sale is not really in the wheelhouse of something that's going to be really productive for the type of selling that we do. It's more of like a very logic based sale. It needs to be visual. We don't do any of that stuff. So I introduced her to Vanessa Horn and that's, you know, I was like basically giving her one of our clients and I just said, oh, I think that, I think that you'll do a better job because you're, you're. The way she, they sell is resonate with her audience. I think so. And also she's a woman. They're both women. They get a lot of women clients. So maybe, maybe that'll help as well. But yeah, so I just think go down the rabbit hole and then realize for us coaching, the way that we sell is ideal for any sort of coaching program. Whether it's real estate agents. We're doing well for Sirhan. I think we've collected 80,000 in cash in two weeks. In the first two weeks of selling.

Without paid ads.

Without any paid ads. That's just through email, email blasts. And then all the other coaching guys that we do like. It works very, very well for that particular type of sale. But, but I would say if it's something highly, highly technical, I dare say I probably these days would just say no to it. Yeah.

Or refer.

I think referring out is a legit way of doing things.

Yeah, there's some better at doing it than us. We're not gonna use it to get you to do it. If there's a better option, we'll tell you one of the jobs that we're selling for. Obviously before all the lockdown and that we were getting a horrible pickup. Right.

Great.

People weren't answering the phone calls. However, they sent out text messages. The same leads. Six of them booked in to come down to the gym for a Consultation. And he was speaking to me about. I'm like, we can't get people on the phone, but you can text them to come straight to the gym. Dude, you don't need us. Just do that. That's your business model, you know, I guess way cheaper and cheaper do that.

Yeah. Because we charge a pretty decent retainer for fitness work. So because of the amount of hours that are involved. So I was like, just weird. Just save your money, bro. Who cares?

Yeah, yeah. You get a better result.

Yeah, it's all about the result. And if you do that for people, like, they'll refer you people to you because they're like, oh, they're not like just looking out for themselves. They're actually like, I told that client this morning, I was like, listen, as much as I like working with you and want to be on your account, I was like, this isn't. We need to find a different way of doing it. And I'm not really willing to put in the time and the resources to learn how to do it. So I was like, I just think we need to introduce you to this person and then kind of see how that goes. And she was like, oh, okay. Because I was like, my main concern is you getting sales and if it's through somebody else and I facilitated that, I still look like a winner.

Exactly. Right. So it's just the ethical thing to do. The right thing.

That's what you get, the right thing. Yeah. So what's your plan for the next. Next month, my friend? Oh, let's talk about this funny, this funny little deal that you got going on with the place that you're living in.

Oh, yeah, Right. So just took a lease out on a new place, haven't been here for very long. Then the house went up for sale that, that I leased out and they've got an offer on the house. They want to buy me out to move out when I've still got 10 months left on the lease. So I was like, okay, let's play a game. I want this much money plus rent free while I find somewhere. And if you can do that, I'm happy to move.

Do they come back to you yet?

I haven't even spoken to them. But it's going to be very expensive because it's. I hate moving. It's inconvenient.

Oh, it's a massive inconvenience. And also, you got your office set up. You got to take off work. Yeah.

So I haven't even had all of my furniture be delivered that I bought, you know, What? I mean, half of its office furniture. So technically, I do. Technically, I don't. Hence, yeah, the shitty background.

Yeah. It's funny. It's funny. He called me up. You're like, what do I do? And I was like, oh, you got a cruncher, bro. You got him over a barrel. You know, it's a $900,000 house or a million dollar, whatever it is, if they. That. That guy. Obviously the buyer wants to move in. So right now it's an encumbered property because they have to serve with at least, like, legally.

So he wants to live that with his family. And.

Yeah, three months. Three months rent is not unusual to do that. So whatever that is. If you're paying a thousand bucks a week, at least 12 months. At least 12,000. Minimum. I'm thinking minimum. Yeah. Why not? It going high. High. Going high, you know, and then if you get rent free as well. So, yeah, I want six weeks of rent free. I want this amount of money, and.

Then I don't have to rush into anything. It's just a pain in the ass. Well, you'd get that money back regardless.

So. Yeah.

Sweet. It's an interesting sale. That's a different type of sale. Maybe I'll have a conversation, record it.

Yeah, just start smashing them. Negotiation is. Is a sale. It's just a different. I was negotiating with one of my. One of my, like, commercial properties that I have, and they were trying to negotiate because of COVID but they were just taking a piss. And so I just said, oh, just take it back, man, because that was one of the options they put forward. I was like, yeah, dude, well, you haven't paid me for, like, three months. So I was like, what do I care? I go, just take it back. And they're like, oh. But I was like, oh, you know, that's cool, man. I don't need the money. I've got an offset account against it. So I was just like, yeah, I'll just take it back. And then it changed the conversation drastically when they realized I really didn't care. And that level of apathy is difficult to negotiate with. So we ended up coming up with an agreement, which I thought I was quite happy with, but still allowed them to do what they need to do. Yeah, Negotiations. A great book called Never to Put the Difference on Negotiation that I highly recommend everybody read. It's also a great sales resource, but it's also a fantastic read because it talks about just different types of negotiation. He's the next hostage negotiator for the FBI.

It CIA, one of them.

CIA, FBI, one of those things, one of those spooky hooks. What I do is try and get really good at like six different styles of selling. Just pick a style that you really because and then figure out what products that style works best for selling. We were talking today and I was like, oh, I think we really need to do the some of the Simon Bowen stuff because we have a client that we're like we really weren't doing that well for. It was kind of like okay, but it's a really, really technical sale and it's not spooky. Yeah, his name's Chris Voss but he does some great stuff.

Stuff.

But yeah, that's all I think the next guest we have on is going to be A.J. morton from the Fit Pro Mentorship Review, which would be a really interesting one. I've got a meeting with Cole so I think we might get Cole back on the the podcast again because that was a really, that was a really heavily downloaded one. And then if you guys have any recommendations people think you should talk to, hit us up. Let us know if you guys want to join our. It's called Sales Sniper Sales Training Group. That's our group. You want to hit it up? It's free. We do heaps of content in there. We post stuff in there. We do a weekly live training. So if you guys want to get amongst that really in the wheelhouse of what we do and that kind of technical sale is not really in the wheelhouse. There's no, it's just a free group really.

If you can't find it, we of.

Something that's going to be really productive for the type of selling that we do. It's more of like a very logic based sale. It needs to be visual. We don't do any of that stuff. So I introduced her to Vanessa Horn and that's, you know, I was like basically giving her one of our clients and I just said oh, I think.

Possibly would have changed it to the closing code as a group name.

Yeah, it's right now it's called Sales Sniper Sales Training and it's got the coffees for Closers logo as the the group logo. But yeah, all right guys, cool. That's enough for me. What I'd like you to do is review, subscribe, download, do anything that you think you need to do in order to share it. If you do leave a review, please talk about something specific, a little gold nugget that you got from today's episode and share it around with your. If you like it. And if you don't, I truly don't care. Sweet.

Br.

Bye. Put that coffee down. I think that you'll do a better job because you're. You're. The way she. They sell is resonate with her audience. I think so. And also, she's a woman. They're both women. They get a lot of women clients. So maybe. Maybe that'll help as well. But yes, I just think copies for closing is only down the rabbit hole. And then realize for us, coaching, the way that we sell is ideal for any sort of coaching program, whether it's real estate agents. We're doing well for Sirhan. I think we've collected 80,000 in cash in two weeks. In the first two weeks of selling.

Without paid ads.

Without any paid ads. That's just through email. Email blasts, and then all the other coaching guys that we do like. It works very, very well for that particular type of sale. But I would say if it's something highly, highly technical, I dare say I probably these days would just say no to it.

Yeah.

Or I think referring out is a legit way of doing things. Yeah.

There's some better at doing it than us. We're not gonna use it.

Yeah.

To get you to do it. If there's a better option, we'll tell you one of the jobs that we're selling for. Obviously, before all the lockdown and that, we. We were getting a horrible pickup rate. People weren't answering the phone calls. However, they sent out text messages. The same leads. Six of them booked in to come down to the gym for a consultation. And he was speaking to me about. I'm like, we can't get people on the phone, but you can text them to come straight to the gym. Dude, you don't need us. Just do that. That's your business.