Adapt or Fall Behind: A Deep Dive into the Modern Sales Landscape CIFC Episode 160

But, hey, guys, welcome to the episode of Coffees for Closers. We got a big road today, right? We're going to be talking all things sales, sales teams as well, and then kind of different. Just different things about what it's like being in industry. So we'll get into it. Ex Special Forces sniper turned entrepreneur, I've scaled numerous businesses to eight figures. My name is Matt Ryder. This is my podcast, and I'm telling you to put that coffee down. How's it going, man?

Well, I'm blessed. Can't complain.

Good, dude, you know, just kind of getting by. Just this girl trying to get a nut. As you can see, I had this rebuilt while I was in the States. Not bad.

Looks. It looks. It looks fabulous. Yeah, man, like, real nice.

I styled it myself and everything.

You know, I might have to steal your style. I don't. I don't know.

Yeah, man. It's actually a surprisingly cheap to get all this built, so.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, the guy did a good job. Did, like, redid a bunch of stuff in the office, but when you come down, you'll have to see. But yeah, man. So, like, you know, it's a weird time in sales, I think. I think it's always a weird time in sales. But, like, what I'm seeing is like. I don't know, I feel like the. Like, the world that we came from, the coaching and consulting world, is. Is taking a bit of a hit at the moment, and I feel like, you know, there's a bit of a. I think it bounced. Anything. It bounced back to what it was before. You know what I mean? What are your. What are your thoughts?

Yeah, like. Like bounce back. In what terms?

I feel like the. Kind of like it's, you know, I feel like it's going back to 2020. 2019.

Yeah, yeah.

You know.

Like, for the folks that. That may not know what happened in 2019, could you kind of tell them how it looked back then?

Yeah, yeah. Well, like, you know, in 2020, when. When Covid happened, there was this explosion of online education. And so what that did. Is it like there was, you know, I think there was a. There was like a. Coaching. Consulting has obviously been around for a long time, but you had, like, big names. You had Vince Del Monte, you had Sam Ovens, you had, you know, Tony Robbins, Dean Graziosi, all these guys, right? Like, you had, you know, action Coach was really big. You had this, like, real, like, consolidation of, like, this is a business coach and this is a, you know, marketing coach, you know, Dan Kennedy and then, like, in 2019 with. Sorry, in 2020 with COVID like, everyone was stuck at home, and everybody was like, oh, shit, like, my nine to five is no longer going to potentially pay my bills. I need to figure out ways to make money. And so along with that came people teaching people how to make money online. Now, the problem is most of those people only made money by teaching people how to make money.

So Spotlight.

And so that's what, you know, and that's what we started selling, you know, fitness business coaching with dudes like Chris. And then, you know, we sold Vince Del Monte stuff. We sold Ryan Sirhan stuff. We sold, you know, Bashar. Bashar is blown up, I think. Yeah, we sold his stuff, and we sold everybody's stuff, bro. Like, yeah, we sold everybody's stuff. And it just seems like a lot of that, all of those people haven't figured out. Not those people that I mentioned, but I'm just talking about, like, the, like, the greater community haven't. Haven't figured out how to sort of keep up. And what that's doing is just consolidating down the amount of offers that are viable.

Yeah. Thank you. And I couldn't agree more. It's a very interesting time right now. A lot of sales people that we speak to or even sales teams that we speak to. What's interesting is it seems like, like, to your point, this is, like, consolidation, where the folks that were making money teaching people how to make money, they made their money. And they're like, all right, guys, like, now you guys figure it out. Yeah, how to make money. And, you know, and now it's just. It's a very weird place because. Especially in my opinion, in, like, this sales space, because when I'm talking with sales reps that are coming to me now, it's like, they're. It's weird. They're the. The things that they're saying, they're coming across in terms of, like, the, like, objections and the. The. The problems. Those have always been there, but they just think that essentially, like, this time is different. And why I say it's weird is because we'll just have honest conversations with them. It's like, what are. What are your prospects telling you? Like, what are. What are you struggling, overcome with? And they're like, oh, I don't know, bro. This. This new wave, they're saying, I need to think about it. I need to do this, I need to do that. I'm like, well, could it be that, like, they've always had these same problems? It's just seems like that. That it seems like essentially they're left holding the bag. Now. What I mean by that is. Yeah, go ahead.

No, I think, like, it's welcome to the real world, right? Like that, like, that's the reality. You know, it's like me and you've been in sales for, you know, for longer than these kids, right?

Yeah.

And if we're talking about like, you know, you know, these are objections everybody gets. But like, when you have a. Like, hot offers are fun to sell because, like, everybody buys, right? Like, I remember we were doing a crypto thing and we were selling a crypto offer. It was good, man. People were getting great crazy results. But it was like it was the early adopters and you just didn't get objections. I mean, these guys are killing it. The sales we were making on that offer were unbelievable. And like, the return of ad spend that we averaged was a 24 times. I mean, like, you know, and I saw that and I was like, well, it's a shooting star. And I remember telling the team, I was like, hey, guys, it's like, we can't budget for this to last. Now we're counts. Like, no, guys, like, this is, you know, this is, you know, this is selling roots at a brothel. You know what I mean? Like, this is a. Is a hot offer, boys.

Like, yeah, yeah.

It's just too easy to sell.

It's, it's. It's funny you say that is because, like, even in like, one of the businesses that we have, like, like with one of the actual, like, like DM teams, they created like, this, this, this channel where it's like, hot leads, people who want to buy. And like, for me, even I'm like, you know what? I never put my name in there. I don't want to. I don't want to. I don't want the hot lead. And folks would ask me, like, why don't you ever say, like, I'll take it. And it's something you said early on to, like, to us when you trained us, like, train hard so that when you're inside the actual fight, let's say that the sales.

Yeah. Train hard.

Like. Yeah, exactly. And what I. What was happening right now, a lot of the sales guys and sales teams is they've been fighting easy for so long because it's been like the fake world. So that now that they have to actually fight for real, they don't know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, yeah, you know, like the. And. And this is where like the grounding comes in place because like you can teach people how to overcome objections. And we, we do that in our programs and we do that with our clients. And understanding to handle objections is great, right? Like it's really important, but like having a really strong grounding understanding of like the principles that you're trying to do within the sales call is way more important. It's way more important. It's like, it's the things that people don't want to do. It's like Steph Curry, before he leaves the gym, he has to shoot 10 free throws and they all, the last five can't touch the rim. See, one touches the room, he starts over again, right? Like that's foundational work. That's not sexy, that's not fun, that's annoying. You know, that's like. And if you look at his warm up routine, like it's, it's intense, man. From handles to three pointers to all the way back to the mid court and then all the way back and all the crazy stuff that he does. But it's like that's him building upon his base, his skill set, his foundation, so that when he gets live, everything's in slow motion. And if you train well enough and you train hard enough, and that doesn't mean that you just come to the hour, hour a week or the, you know, the daily role play session, that means you sit down and you, you study, you know.

Yeah.

What is this? Why is this this way? You know, listen to your calls, dissect them. That guy said this. I wonder what he actually meant.

Yep. You know, no, spot on.

Yeah, that's how you get. Good, man. Really good.

Yes, yes, spot on. Like even, even. But even some of these business owners, like, it's, it's like, no, not to anybody out there doing, doing their thing. It's just some, some of them are what seems like to me in a bit of a delusion where it's like they're, they're trying to hope away what's coming. And it's like there's, in my opinion there's like a tidal wave coming where all of this was already a little bit here. Actually in my opinion, like all of this easy. Just like business is essentially going away, so people are becoming more and more afraid to spend their money. So if you're not as skilled as you need to be to like evolve with the times that we're at now, or if your sales team isn't as skilled as they need to be, then you're essentially just waiting for your business to shut down. Because if they're not making sales or if they can't overcome certain concerns that the prospects have, then what's like, the logical progression of steps? The salespeople are still selling. Like, it's 2014, where there's, like, abundance of just Facebook marketing and Facebook ads and Facebook leads. But here's what's happened over the last, I say, almost decade. The market has evolved and become smarter. So if, like, you have all these guys that learned from Sam Ovens and some of these, like, other people. Yeah, they're all. They're teaching each other the same thing. So the prospects are basically being exposed to the same tips and tricks. And if the founder started off that way and then pass that off to their sales teams.

Yeah.

And they're still using it and not innovating, in my opinion, you're screwed. Because the market's evolving, but your sales team is not.

This is really where. Yeah, this is really where the guys who are using sales tactics and systems from people who have only sold in simple mirrors.

Right.

I think one of the. One of the benefits that we have is that, first of all, like, a lot of it, we're a lot. We're a fair bit older than the rest of the people in coaching. Right. Like, we're in coaching, but, yeah, it's where. It's funny. We are coaches. Like, that's like, our predominant business, like, coaching agency space. However.

Yeah, we.

We don't really cater to that market. Like, most of our stuff is solar insurance, medical device, roofing, H vac, pest control. You know what I mean? All that kind of stuff. Right. Which is well outside of that. But, like, we are, like, the older crowd, and so we have a lot more experience than. Than, like, a lot of these. You know, if you're like, 26.

Right.

Or even, like, you know, 28, and you've sold one thing in one way.

Yeah.

And then you. You expect that to translate across multiple industries during multiple times. But it's like, you know, we can have Jeremy and go, hey, man, what was it like selling in 2008? He's like, well, this is how we did it. It's like, all right, sweet. Like, let's. Let's take some of that. Like, you know, like, I was selling in, you know, I got out of the military in. In 2010, you know, I mean, and then started sort of selling in 2012. And so, like, I. I see the vast difference in advertising. I see the difference in, you know, pickup rates. You know, pickup rates were, you know, 50, 60%, you know, now they're down to 10 to 20, depending on what you're using, you know, so, like, and it's just ad blindness. Like, it's just blindness to. To ways of doing things. Like, if somebody flicks you in the forehead every day, like, you just stop caring about getting flicked in the forehead, you know, so, like, it stops noticing stuff's becoming a thing. And so, like, that's what's happening, you know, and it just, like, you know. You know, and then the neck. The next wave of advertising, let's say it's AI advertising or something like that, right? Like, whatever. It's like, that will be easy. And the leads that come through, that'll be easy because it's new, right? They haven't seen it before. And then, you know, from there there'll be easier leads. So, like, it's, you know, we're on the. We're on the precipice of something new is coming. I don't know what it is, but something new is coming in the next sort of five years, and that will, you know, make it easier again. But it, you know, just. It's. It's tough. You know, you can't sell people the Eiffel Tower three times anymore.

Right? That's a real good way to put it. Like, was. Was. Was. Was. Was also like that. What's even going back to, like, the. The. The basketball analogy you just used, it was like that. I feel like that's. So.

Who.

Who. Who are. Like, if you watch basketball here in the States, like, there's a debate over, like, who, like, the goat is. And I don't. I don't personally believe there is one. There's different errors, but you have, like, a consensus that you have Michael Jordan as one of the greatest of all time, Kobe Bryant as one of the greatest of all time, and then LeBron James as well of all time. But it's like, why were they great? And to your point, it's like, Michael wasn't the flashiest, Kobe's not the flashiest, LeBron's not the fastliest. But what they all excel in is the mastering of the fundamentals. Like, they understand exactly how to do what they're doing, but also why they're doing what they're doing. Like, they just train obsessively to get better. And I think with salespeople, if. If you. If. If you don't have that same level, and I don't say you need to be obsessive, but, like, I recommend if you're not training at all, or if you're not training your staff at all, or if you just. If you hope that the, the, like, this is, this is. This is my personal opinion. Like, I'll talk to some of the salespeople and some of the business owners, and I'm like, okay, what do you think is more likely, right? Do you think, like, they'll tell me how the prospects have changed or the prospects are like, like broke or the prospects are aggressive? And I'm like, okay, what do you think is more likely that the prospect that, like, allocated time to speak with your sales team? Do you think it's likely that that prospect rolled out of bed, put on their shoes and were like, today, I'm gonna give Joe Schmo salesperson, you know, yeah, I'm. I'm gonna give them. Yeah, I'm a. I'm gonna tear his head off. Like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna just. I'm gonna give it to him, you know, like. But I'm gonna allocate an hour of my time to talk about my problems and not solve them with them and give it to him. Than likely that your sales team doesn't really have the skills just yet to actually trigger Joe Schmo to want to engage with them to actually solve the problem, which is more likely if they allocated time to actually speak with your sales team and they'll say, well, the latter. And then what blows my mind all the time is like. And not to rag on business owners because, like, you know, they're doing the dude, they took the biggest risk of all.

Yeah, yeah.

Started the business. However, just my, My, My logic didn't goes to, why make it harder on yourself? Like, why not just. If you took the risk of starting the business in the first place and you took the risk of having a sales team or, or just even like a marketing team. Why. Why do all that work to just let everything falter if you can do something about it?

Well, I often find that sales is like the afterthought of most businesses. You know, like, I've worked with. I remember I had a big, like, fintech company, like, come to me. This is a while ago, and know that they were like, they were started. It was started by two of the ex CEOs of two of the big banks in Australia. There's four big banks in Australia, right? So I'm talking. These guys are on $50 million a year salaries, right? When they're. When they're the CEO of the banks over here. And they were like, yeah, they've started this product. They know how to get into the big banks. What we need to do is figure out small and medium sized banks. I was like, yeah, cool. I was like, what's your like sales strategy? And they go, we don't really have one. I go, when do you want to go to market? We go, want to go to market in the next few months. I was like, okay, how much do you need to make? And they were like, well, we make like a, you know, basically it's like seven to eight figures from each, each deal, right? So we go want to make about two to three deals a year to start with. I was like, yeah, cool man. And like, what are you going to do? Like, oh yeah, we don't have that, you know. So they wanted us to do it. And I was like, yeah, they wanted us to figure it out for them the same way we did with like Air Wallix and a couple other, those, those like fintechs. I was like, yeah, we can do that. Like. And I basically said like, what's your budget? And they had a budget of like 15 grand, right?

For eight.

I was like, okay, let's play this out. You guys are in banking. You want to make, right, eight figures in the next 12 months from this side of the business of which you have no experience in getting to the people you want us to map out and test and like produce an entire sales structure right over the next three months that produces you eight figures in revenue and your budget to get a consultant in to do that is $15,000. They went, yes. And I just went like. And I went to go and handle that like. And I just went, no thanks.

Mm, bike.

I just went, no thanks. Because like, I was like, oh, if you're that like. Because we, it would, it would, we'd have to charge them hundreds, right? Because like the level of R D that goes into that is deep. Like we'd have to go out to banks in rural areas and talk to the managers. Do you know what I mean? Like, figure out what's going on. So like it would take six months and it would be. Anyway, I just, I didn't even want to. So it's like that is like sales was such an afterthought. And a lot of that is the arrogance of the business owner thinking their product is so good they don't need it. Hey, it sells itself. Nothing sells itself, mate. Like nothing. You notice how they sell water?

Yeah.

You can get it from a tap. Like they sell it through marketing. You know what I mean? Like, you know What? I mean, like marketing and distribution and it's like. And they fight for the space that's gonna make the most amount of sales. Like, the way that Coca Cola does their sales is super interesting. So Coca Cola's sales department is broken up by distribution method, not by product.

Oh, wow.

Right.

So which makes a lot of sense when you think about it. So you'd think that maybe Coke Zero had its own department. Diet Coke, Coke, you know, Sprite. It's not. That's not the way it is. They have all the products, right. And the distribution method is what dictates like the department. So they have like, so shopping. So like shopping markets, like grocery stores, that's one department.

Right.

And the pricing is totally different per distribution. Vending machines is one department. Gas stations is another department.

Right.

You know, again, shopping centers, grocery stores, retail, like. Oh, not retail like movies, stuff like that.

Right.

So a different way, like how, however a person, like. So Coke's mandate is what? I don't remember the exact wording, but it's really interesting. It's like Coke's mandate is for someone to be able to have a Coke whenever they want it. I think it's within arm's reach.

Yeah, yeah, you just remind me.

Yep, yeah, it's within arm's reach.

Right.

So that a Coke will always be within arm's reach, essentially, which is genius.

Right.

And so like the guys who are looking at vending machines are looking for, how do we be seen?

Right?

And then the pricing is, is, is, is at a premium for the convenience. And then in a, in a, in a grocery store, they're. They're looking at. Well, how, how do we be seen? Like at eye level.

Mm. Right.

And so it's like, you know, but they're going to be at eye level of women, not men, because predominantly speaking, it's the women doing the grocery shopping. Right? So like I'm 6 foot 2, my eyeline is very different than my 5 foot 7 wife. Right. So like that, you know, it's kind of how it is. And then from like, you know, it's very interesting and it's very intricate and they're obviously a very successful business. That's kind of like how. That's how they do it. Like they really think about it. You know, it's sales. Sales first.

Yeah. Even, even you saying like. Because I didn't even think about that. Water is technically free, but it's still being sold. And the same thing could be said for air. Like there are something called air rights, like here in the state. So.

Yeah, yeah.

Where you can, like, yeah, like you, if, if, if you own a building. Like, I remember when, like, I mean, no matter what you think about him, right, but like, when Tiffany's in New York City, like, had this, like, the, the building Trump bought the air rights to Tiffany's back in the, like, 90s. So he can, like, essentially build Trump Tower because, like, or, yeah, you build Trump Tower. So. Because he could build it only up to a certain, like, place beforehand.

Yeah.

Until Tiffany's was like, no, no, no, no. That's our air. Like, what? So like, he actually had to purchase the air rights so Trump Tower could be built. And it's like, air's technically free, but it's not. So to your point, it's like everything needs to be sold or could be sold. It's just somebody has to figure out how to do it.

Exactly.

Like, you gotta think about it and.

You gotta write it down. And then you've got to figure out which parts are skill and which parts of process. And if you like your sales team, you'll get them the skills to be able to do their job and you'll work on the process.

Yeah, that, that brings up a, A good point because sometimes you're right. It's skill, sometimes it's process. Because if you, if it's one thing to have a problem, but it's even a, A bigger, I think, problem, if you don't even know you have a problem, it makes sense because. Because then it's like, it's like being on the. And, and, and, and there. What's, what's. What's also interesting is you'll have people who will know there's a problem, like actual sales people on sales teams that'll know there's a problem and their sales managers will know there's a problem. But because they are, they have the misconception about, like, what they believe conflict is.

Every salesperson thinks they're good and their circumstances are the reason why they're not doing well. That's the reality.

But even, yeah, even, even, even taking a step further with, like, the actual, like, management, like some of these guys, like, on these, these business owners, they, like, their managers know they have a problem. They know they need help, but they're scared to go and say something because they don't want to cause conflict. And I, I. With the business owner because the business owner might be in love with a certain thing.

Yeah.

It's like, in my opinion, it's a sinking ship. There's like a hole there's leaky buckets in. If you guys are all on the actual ship and there's a leak, speaking for me personally, I'd rather somebody come tell me.

Oh, hell, yeah.

Listen, there's a leak on this ship, so we can basically do our best to patch it up and. And save everybody rather than hoping that that water doesn't get in and sink everybody, because.

All right, we're out of time, though, man. But, hey, I really appreciate you coming on and, yeah, dude, like, subscribe. All that kind of good stuff, and we'll see you guys later.

All right, thanks.

Put that coffee down.