All About Crypto - CIFC Episode 136
Matt Ryder, Jeremy Miner, and Mandy discuss the FTX collapse and what it reveals about crypto investing. They cover personal losses, how scams work in the space, and what comes next for the market.
Hello, welcome back to Coffee is for Closers. It's Matt and Pat and we're going to talk about crypto and how we lost all our money.
So did everybody else. Ex special Forces sniper turned entrepreneur. I've scaled numerous businesses to eight figures. My name is Matt Ryder. This is my podcast and I'm telling you to put that coffee down.
So crypto, not great. Things aren't looking great at the moment.
No, not really, no. Even some of the big crypto coaching companies have pivoted to.
What are they teaching now?
Like, I think sort of some of the ones that I've seen because I'm on the email lists have pivoted to like, we have exclusive access to new investments.
Yeah.
So they're going to go into like more of like a, I guess a.
VC type model, not like how to make stone tools and stuff like that. Like back to.
It's been interesting, you know, I think, I think is the latest one was FTX and Binance.
Right.
Going at it and then. So my, I mean you might have done some research, but my, my take on the situation is that FTX guy, Scobinoff or Binance guy, then started shit mouthing ftx and then I think he held a bunch of FTX and then kind of ransomed it. And then just like publicly was like, I have no faith in this platform. I'm going to dump all my holdings. And then.
No.
And then old mate from Binance came in with a very small check and said, I'll bail you out, buddy. And I think old mate probably took that money himself.
Oh, he didn't take it.
No, no, no, no.
So they just wrote it into the ground.
Bye. Yeah, Capitan.
Yeah.
So does it officially closed now?
Yeah, so I, so I had, my crypto was on ftx. Congratulations. Yeah, thank you. My former crypto, I'll refer to it.
From here on out as same as a Matt Damon. I mean, I think the real Matt Damon's the one we really got to think about. He was the one that was like, fortune favors the Bold. It was the big FTX. Was that FTX or crypto.com? i think it was FTX, I don't know. And they bought that state, they bought the rights to the stadium and everything's got to be a bit embarrassing.
Yeah.
Well, so as is right now, there basically is no ftx. I got a letter, I got an.
Email saying, letter, yeah, they can't afford the servers.
Yeah.
And I got an email from the, They've filed bankruptcy. So I got an Email from the administrators. They've filed back bankruptcy under like 130 different entities have gone into administration. I guess that's all the different things around the world. And so they're done, it's over. And I think the latest I saw was that, well, there wasn't money, so that's the issue. Right? So he was doing the like, fractional reserve lending, which is the whole thing that everybody is like against real banks for. Fuck them. It's not real. Crypto's real. It's like a finite resource and blah, blah, blah in certain coins. And then turns out he was full of shit and was dodgy the whole time.
You know, it must be funny because, like, I saw an interview with him with like some traditional bankers, right? And they were like what you were describing as a Ponzi scheme. He's like, nah, you just don't get it. Yeah, they're like, no, no, we get it.
Yeah.
Just. Do you get it?
Yeah.
Like they explained it back. He's like, yep, that's what it is. He goes, that is a Ponzi scheme, my friend.
Yeah.
And it was quite an interesting because they're like institutional investment bankers who know their shit. And it was like this guy thought he knew better than the banks and failed in a couple of years.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, he did have $10 billion of other people's money at one point. So it's a fucking great Ponzi scheme. But I think what's worth talking about, because I don't know shit about anything except that I just lost a bunch of money.
Right? Right.
And like, I. I didn't put money into crypto that I wasn't prepared to lose. And I think that's probably not that we give financial advice, but that's probably decent advice to give or to think of. Right. Don't put money into crypto that you can't afford to.
To lose. Because it can happen, I think any investment.
Yeah.
But I think for the bigger picture of crypto, I think that it's going to. Cause it's not going to derail it completely, but it's going to be a massive setback to the average investor. Because what it has for sure proven is, is that if you don't have your finger on the pulse and if you're not in the know and if you're not like really doing a huge amount of research and really staying up to date with all of the security protocols and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, there is nowhere safe for your crypto.
Well, the thing is, it Collapses so fast.
Yeah.
Like, when Anchor collapsed, I lost a significant amount of money.
Right.
And that was supposed to be the safest place to keep your crypto on the Internet if you wanted to have it invested.
Okay.
It was Anchor.
Right.
Like, I was told by numerous people, you should put your business treasury there.
Right, Right.
Like, I'm talking like seven figures, like, yeah. Whacking in there and then happen a day.
Yeah.
Like, like. And I had a couple people go, oh, no, I pulled out. I saw it coming. Like, you didn't think to tell me, champ? But anyway, but like, it was like, really quick, especially if you're not someone who's checking on the markets every day.
That's it.
You know, I was sort of like a casual crypto investor, but I had casual in the sense that I had a pretty significant amount of money in there.
Yeah.
But I put it in places that were supposed to be safe. BlockFi was supposed to be super safe. I randomly pulled everything out of BlockFi, like a couple months before it went bust. Just by total fluke.
Yeah. Right.
Because after Anchor went down, I was like, where is my crypto? So I kind of spent half a day finding all of it and then just go, I'll just put everything in MetaMask. Because MetaMask sort of can't go down because it's not doing anything except just holding the code.
Right.
Like it's sort of an off, you know, anyway. And then from there, the rest of it I put into, like a storage thing, just luckily. And then, you know, all these exchanges start going down. And I was like, fuck. The only thing that I have anything left in is Binance. And I'm going to pull that out fucking tomorrow.
Yeah.
Because like, that's. That's would be next. Because these, these crypto fucking children billionaires are just poking each other going like, I bet I can sink you. I bet I can sink you, thinking that they're going to be the ones that are left. And it's like, no, you're not.
Well, that's the issue, and that's what I wanted to sort of talk about is I think that it, like this whole thing is going to set crypto back massively. Because I feel like there's. There's two, maybe three kinds of investors in crypto. I think that there's people who are like, yeah, fuck the government, like, decentralized. We should be able to buy drugs and whatever with an alternative currency no one can track. And you know that there was a big groundswell of that and people who are really into it. But then the overwhelming majority is people who are like, no, I'm going to rip other people off and I'm going to make a ton of money doing that and I'm going to trick new people into losing money.
Money.
Well, you look at like the influencers, right?
Yeah, you know like the whole nft.
The Jake Paul's and the Logan Paul's. Not all the rug pulls they've done on these poor 18 year old kids. Yeah, allegedly.
Exactly.
Right, yeah.
So there's those but then there's people who like I probably put myself into the category of like oh well, I guess it's coming and you know, I've got to get some or else you get left behind. And yeah, that's how I ended up in crypto. Just like, oh well, I guess everybody's doing it, right?
Yeah, exactly.
And I don't have the time to like be so fucking.
But I think that's the majority. Yeah, the majority is like oh well, whack 30 grand and see what happens.
Yeah, right.
And so I don't have the time, I don't have the energy, I don't have the fucking brain power to really become a.
That is what FDX, crypto.com and all those places, that is what they're leveraging.
Yeah.
Hey, just give us your money and you'll be sweet. Yeah, we guarantee 8% returns, 10% returns, 20% returns. It's like, well. And I can't get that there anywhere.
I wasn't even looking for returns on ftx. Like I, I mucked around for a little while and like traded and did all that kind of stuff and I just kind of like I made money doing that and I just looked at it and I was like, I don't enjoy this shit.
And this made more code.
Yeah.
And this is not, it's not passive income. I'm sitting here looking at graphs all day like this is my least favorite thing to do. I don't enjoy this at all. So yes, I can make money doing this and yes I'm at home and I'm not having a workplace, but I'm not, I don't enjoy this. I'd rather go out and like move rocks around and I make more money than I am sitting here.
Right.
But that's my personal choice. So then I said, oh well, I just buy some like Bitcoin and Ethereum, they're pretty safe and foolishly left it on ftx. And so that FTX is gone, doesn't exist. I don't have that money anymore. So, like, like I said, I didn't put money into that that I'm not prepared to lose. But I think that bigger picture and relevant to this podcast and the listeners of is like that radically, I think, changes people's willingness to spend money at the moment, I think, radically changes people. Like where and how.
Well, now the interesting thing is because you had this like inverse for a while where if the stock market went down, crypto would go up and vice versa. Because it was like that you had people who were fearful and then you had people who are really like, ramp in the market. So, like, the kind of world was divided between crypto and institutional, and there was like a lot of people adopting crypto. Like a lot. Not as many as people trading the markets and stuff like that, but it was a pretty significant amount. And now what's happened is everyone's scared.
Yeah.
Because you're seeing like, I went to the fucking. I filled up the car the other day and for the first time, honestly in a while, I took notice. Jesus christ. It was $2 and 34 cents.
Yeah.
A liter.
Yeah.
To fill up. And I was like, and if I'm going, jesus Christ, that's expensive.
Yeah.
Like, I can only imagine.
Well, there's people who are making decisions not to fill up. That's, that's the reality.
Right.
And I think that for the average sort of upper middle class person, you don't think about it too much.
Right. Yeah.
But you kind of go, jesus, that's.
Higher than I remember.
Yeah.
And you go, oh, well, yeah. But for many, many, many people, they're thinking about, where do I go, right? Like, can I, can I not drive my car? Where can I cut spending? How can I reduce my cost of living? And then, oh, you know, like, I've got my money in this, like, crypto.
No, you don't.
You don't have anybody.
Yeah.
So like. Yeah. I think to me, the three types of investors are the real casual mom and pop, or just people like me and you that just put money in there and sort of almost forget they have it. But now, because, you know, it's so public, then all those people are pulling out. I pulled out almost all of it.
Yeah.
I'm just waiting on the last few things to pull out the rest of it. And I just gave it to my wealth manager. It's like, it's music to my ears.
Yeah.
Because like, he's. Because that guy is actively doing stuff to make sure that shit doesn't happen.
Yeah.
And he's like bro, crypto is crazy. He's like, it's madness.
Yeah.
He goes. But for him the best thing is he now stops getting asked about it because they can't, they can't legally touch it. Because it's decentralized.
Right.
Because it, you know. Yeah, he can do it personally, but he can't advise a client.
Yeah.
You know, so there's them, then there's like the hardcore people who believe that like they need to decentralize against the government, you know. And then I think there's people that sort as.
But, but explore that a little bit.
Right.
Because one of the things, you see that in Canada with the Canadian truck.
Yeah. Where they were freezing bank accounts.
Yeah.
You man.
And so that was a huge case for crypto because at that time everyone was like, the government is. Because they don't like what you're doing is stopping.
You have. Where I side with crypto.
Yeah.
I side with like, hey, let's have a little bit of redundancy against these fucking crazy people.
Yeah.
Because government seem to be getting crazier.
But you're stopping the government being able to lock up your funds and handing over to a bunch of 19 year old kids that are able to just steal it.
I suppose like the, it's almost against like bitcoin for example. Like bitcoin is, is controlled by no one. Well, so we think. Right, so, so the narrative goes right. Until later. It's just fucking Goldman Sachs. It was me all along. Wouldn't it be funny that happened? Probably will happen. Probably is happening. So it's supposed to be sort of totally decentralized. The only problem with that is it has no underlying value whatsoever. There's nothing, it doesn't mean anything. Do anything. You can't use the bitcoin chain to do much but find more Bitcoin, which we haven't found all of it yet. Which is kind of a weird concept in itself, like how bitcoin mining works. It's supposed to be a code that stops. They don't really know the number of where it's supposed to stop. But we're just making the circle bigger. And it will stop someday. Then it will be a true finite resource. Right. But a finite resource to do what? Gold. You can melt it down and do stuff with diamonds, you can do stuff with that. You can't do anything with Bitcoin. Whereas Ethereum I think has a use case because it's what Web3 is being designed on the back of.
Okay.
You know, so like there IS technology like NFTs, I think in the art form, for me, it's just stupid.
Right?
Like, I don't get it, but like, hey, I'm getting old, whatever. Young people, like, nah, nah. But like Gary Vee talks about it, like every single concert ticket should be an nft. Like everything that is a single use or like, needs to be truly authenticated should be done through the use of an nft. So like I can see that huge technology totally, you know, for, for art and all that kind of stuff just to track authenticity. Because you just basically scan a barcode. Yeah. And then you're done. But everything else is kind of somewhat worthless. Like Phantom and so many other networks that are actually trying to build something that you can use for later on that I think will have like an emerging technology sector that's got to be worth something in the long run. So. But like who. But if you store it on something like ftx, it's sort of like you can't do that because then it's like you're, you're centralizing it.
Yeah.
So then all of a sudden it's open for even more fuckery than what the banks. Because like the reason why the banks are regulated is because all these fuckeries have been done, you know, so it's like all of that has been done. So you almost need to have like a regulation on the d. On the, on the centralized versions of it. And it's a very confusing, very complicated thing because they all, they're all saying, no, we don't want to be regulated. It's like, oh, I'm sure you don't.
Yeah.
Dodgy as fuck.
Yeah, exactly.
That Binance guy. No way. He's not a fucking scam artist.
Yeah.
Like they're all. Anyone, because they've, they've, they've done, they, they've become what they swore to not be.
Well, that's exactly it.
Right.
And so I think that's the issue with crypto as it stands, is that it is now the worst version of what it was trying not to be. Or what everything it stood for.
Every scam ever has come back.
Yeah.
But they've called it something different.
Yeah.
And it's like, oh, there's Ponzi schemes and there's pyramid schemes and all this kind of stuff. It's like, that's all it is. Like, and I was stupid enough, like when I saw like yield farming and stuff like that, I was like, oh yeah, that makes sense, I guess. And then I think back on it, like now, and I'm like, oh, that's like, I didn't put two and two together. That it's a Ponzi scheme. Because I was like, that's exactly what that is. You can't just make something from nothing.
Yeah.
The money has to come in in order for it to be worth more. And then you get paid out in the money from the new money from the people. Like, that's how it works. I was like, oh, yeah, that makes sense now.
Yeah.
And now. Yeah, it has to fall apart at some stage. It must. And I wish like that that's the way it should be explained. Like, yes, this is a Ponzi scheme and it will fall apart. Just try and be on the up, you know, and then I feel like everyone can play the game. Like, all right.
Yeah.
Instead of trying to bullshit around it. Yeah. Those businesses are growing, you know, the people are worth billions, you know, And I think there's too many back doors to where you can just get out of it. Like, if you have like coffee, Zilla. I don't know if you watch his channel, but he, like, the good thing about crypto is you can literally track everything.
Yeah.
So you see every transaction, you can see every transaction. So if you know someone's wallet, like he found Jake Paul's wallet address and then he found all of Jake Paul's other wallet addresses and he could see where money had been sent. And he was like, from this YouTube video, you can see how much he was paid to say that shit.
Yeah, right, right.
Like from who? When, like, you know, they're paid in this coin which hasn't even come out yet. Then they say, like, I think moon shot or was one of the coins that they were gonna like. Anyway, this guy, he was paid fucking hundreds of thousands of moonshot, which is worth nothing. Then from there he promotes it. Then you can see him dump it that day. Yeah, it's like you rug puller. Like, have a look at that. And all these, these 18 year olds have invested 100 bucks and they've all lost it. Or a thousand bucks, you know.
Yeah.
And then some 27 year old more and did 50 grand, you know, so like, it's just, it's everywhere.
Yeah.
And it's, it's the great. You know, like back in the depression before people knew it was going on.
Yeah.
Everyone's just getting scammed by front and center.
Yeah, well, exactly.
Right.
So where do you see this going? Like, what do you think happens now with crypto?
I think like you, I think it's going to be a Rough. I think, like, everything will bottom out.
Yeah.
Like, everything will get way lower than what it is now. And then the only people left will be the hard chargers, and then it'll. The cycle will start again, and in three years, it'll be back in the crazy towns. That's what. I don't know. That's kind of what I think people need to forget.
Yeah.
Once they forget, then they can remember again.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, I think you're right. I think that the people who hang on will, like, who manage to keep it and hang on will eventually see big returns. There'll be people that make a fortune out of this.
I think if you bought a shitload of eth at what you think the bottom is and then just forgot about it for five years, you'd probably make a ton of money.
Yeah.
So long as you store it somewhere.
Yeah.
As long as you store that shit on a fucking thumb drive.
Yeah.
That no one can get access to. But I can't be trusted with crypto just because, like, I forget where they are and passwords. Like, I'm not organized enough for you.
Yeah.
I have a wealth manager. And, like, I would never have. But he, like, the good thing about crypto is you can literally track everything.
Yeah.
So you see every transaction.
You can see every transaction. So if you know someone's wallet, like, he found Jake Paul's wallet address, and then he found all of Jake Paul's other wallet addresses, and he could see where money had been sent. And he was like, from this YouTube video, you can see I have a crypto wealth manager because I'm sure I'd be scammed. You know what I mean? Like, because again, there's no regulators.
Yeah.
Like, with my wealth management guy, like, he is so regulated.
Yeah.
Like, everything is transparent and open. Like, but you could just. Oh, yeah, I've invested in fucking shitcoin. And, yeah, we lost everything. Sorry, champ. Yeah, See, you never. Like, the guys, like, how much he was paid to say that shit.
Yeah. Right, right.
Like, from who?
And bad news. That's not my real name. Say, light up.
Yeah.
Like, what's happening?
Yeah.
So, yeah, it's just. I think, like, we're. It's interesting because when, like, you know, they're paid in this coin, which hasn't even come out yet, then they says, like, I think there was a golden age where, like.
Oh, yeah.
We're like, people made. I mean, ungodly money.
Yeah.
Billions of dollars. Like that guy who bought sheba, you.
Know, $8,000 and turned into 5.4 billion or something.
Yeah.
How much did he cash out?
How much I managed to get out? Like 10, 20 million.
Yeah, right. Yeah.
Like, and he had to employ a team to do it and to split it amongst wallets because you can track it.
Yeah.
So if he was going to dump it, it was going to tank Sheba.
Yeah. Right.
So like they had to be real careful with how they did it.
Yeah.
Because everyone was just tracking his wallet.
Yeah.
You know, years ago. Well, a couple of years ago when Shiva was brand new, I was sitting in this cafe and I overheard this guy talking about it and he was like, oh, it's a response to Doge and it's this, this and it's that and he's like, oh, it's worth nothing and it's probably going to go nowhere. But I put some money into it, we'll see what happens.
And I sometimes see say like I think moon shot or was one of the coins that they were going to like. Anyway, this guy, he was paid hundreds of thousands of moonshot, which is worth nothing. Then from there he promotes it and you can see him dump it that day.
Yeah.
It's like you rug puller guy.
Cuz it's like where my kid does swimming lessons. I really want to go and say like, where did you get out on that? You know, like you should ask him. I'm going to.
Super Interesting.
Yeah, he's just, just, he's a really annoying dude and I don't want to get sucked into that. Like it was bad enough when I had to overhear his conversation, but I'm not sure that I want to invite that into my life because that's fair enough. It might be an hour I don't get back.
Yeah.
And I don't care.
Like have a look at that. And all these, and these 18 year olds have invested 100 bucks and they've all lost it. Or a thousand bucks, you know.
Yeah.
And then some 27 year old more and did 50 grand, you know, so like it's just, it's enough.
But I, I, he was onto it. He was telling, he was telling everybody as loud as, as he could to get in at Shiva. Right at the bottom.
Yeah. I mean the difference in the bottom and the top, it's you know, 0.1 of a cent. But there is enough of them everywhere.
Yeah.
And it's, it's the great, you know, like back in the depression before people knew it was going on.
Yeah.
Everyone's just getting scammed by front and center.
Yeah, well, exactly right so where do you. Or billions.
Yeah. But I mean like it never even got close to no.
If you see this going like what do you think happens now with crypto?
I think like you. I think 0001 of a cent. You know so it's very interesting but I think like the whole and I think in terms of like coaching consulting obviously crypto offers would be very very difficult to sell now someone will figure out a way to like money out of this to make money out of it. I'm not really sure how you know because most of them have been like grow. It's such a bad time.
Yeah.
You know And I'm sure like somewhat it's gonna be a rough. I think like everything will bottom out.
Yeah.
Like everything will get way lower than what it is now. And then the only people left will be the hard chargers. And one has been shorting all this shit.
Oh yeah.
And made a kajillion dollars.
Yeah.
For sure. And it'll. The cycle will start again and in three years it'll be back in the crazy towns. That's what I don't know. That's kind. I don't know them but it's been. It's been a really. What I think people need to forget.
Yeah.
Once they forget then they can remember again.
Yeah.
Really interesting use case because it was. It was interesting like watching these giant companies just collapse overnight.
Yeah.
It's like. And I just don't know what they were doing to where they were that leveraged. They must have just.
Well I think you're right. I think that the people who hang on will like who manage.
God. This has gone forever. I'm smarter than everyone.
Yeah.
And like is that guy how much.
To keep it and. And hang on Will eventually see big returns. There'll be people that make money.
Do you think he funded away the FTX guy?
Have no idea. But I think the tricky part will be like the thing that always amazes me about people that rip people off like that is that fortune out of this.
I think if you bought a shitload of eth at what you think the bottom is and then just forgot about.
It for five like especially on that scale where it's that many people is.
Like eventually you should probably make a ton of money.
Yeah.
So long as you store it somewhere.
Yeah. As long as you store that shit on a fucking thumb drive.
You have to do that to someone who comes and pays you a visit. Like I just. I just find it so hard to.
Yeah.
But no one can get access to. But I can't be trusted with crypto just because, like, I forget where they are and passwords. Like, I'm not organized enough for you.
Yeah.
I have a wealth manager. And like, I would never believe that.
Someone could rip off that many people or cause the loss of the life savings of that many people and be like, I lost it all. I'll go do my jail time or, or I'll just disappear to the Bahamas or wherever they go and someone be.
Like, have a crypto wealth manager. Because I'm sure I'd be scammed. You know what I mean? Like, because again, there's no reg.
Oh, I'm gonna track you down. I'm gonna find you and I'm gonna pay you a visit and I'm gonna take something from your house regulators.
Yeah.
Like with my wealth management guy. Like, he is so regulated.
Yeah.
Like, everything is transparent and open. Like, but you could just. Oh, yeah, I've invested in that is.
Worth the amount of money that I lost. And I'm gonna burn the house down with you inside of it. Like, like, that has to happen at some point.
It probably does.
Like, and so surely that's on the car coin and.
Yeah, we lost everything. Sorry, champ. Yeah, see you never like the guys.
That's for someone like that.
Yeah. That guy.
You'd have to think it.
Especially with the amount of celebrities. This is the thing, politicians that would have had their money in there.
Yeah.
It can't end well for him.
Yeah.
You know, and bad news. That's not my real name. Say later.
Yeah.
Like, what's happening? Yeah, so, yeah, it's just, it's, I think, like, we're, it's interesting because he's ugly.
I mean, that's a big part of it.
So I mean, like, I can't see, you know, but I'd be interesting to figure out, like, where he's going. Is he going to be prosecuted?
Yeah, I have no idea.
Probably not.
Yeah, well, I, I, they might, I think, because it'll be.
Because like, I think there was a golden age where like, oh, yeah, we're like, people made, I mean, ungodly money.
Yeah.
Billions of dollars. Like that guy who bought Sheba.
It's a government. Like, they hate crypto.
Right.
And so it's a awesome opportunity to just drown him in front of everybody and then be like, you know, $8,000 and turned into 5.4 billion or something.
Yeah.
How much did he cash out?
See, this is what that is the problem. There's no consequence, like, so I know a couple of guys have been done. I've managed to get out like 10, 20 million.
Yeah, right, yeah.
Like, and he had to employ a team to do it for doing stuff in the NFT space. But no one's been seriously prosecuted, like, no one has been at least like, not to my knowledge. No one's received like a, you know, 50 year imprisonment.
Yeah.
You know, which I think what needs to happen, somebody needs to be the example where they go, oh, they actually, yeah, they actually get you for this.
Well, that I think that's probably interesting as well. Like, I think from a government standpoint, they could potentially demolish him. And so that then there's some people that are like, oh, well, there was some comeuppance, there was some law applied, but then that might, you know, give some credence to crypto and people will be like, yeah, he was punished.
Right.
Like, no one will do that again because there was a consequence. So they might not want to do that, you know what I mean? They might want to be just like, oh, well, it's outside of our realm. Like, he got away with it, he stole it.
That's the risk you take. Yeah, I guess that wouldn't be a bad way of doing it. You know what I mean?
That, so that, like it depends on what they want to adopt, you know what I mean? And which government around the world. And since FTX is in all these different countries, 130 different entities that have shut down like there, I, I reckon there'll be individual responses to each.
Yeah.
It's a very crazy time, though.
It's. It's hard enough to even keep up with that alone. Speculate about what the fuck's going to happen. Yeah, we sold crypto offices and that. That hasn't happened since the first problem.
What do you mean?
Like the, like when, when the big crash happened, sort of.
We got out of that offer just before the big crash.
Oh, really?
Yeah. Yeah. Right.
So very serendipitous. Yeah, it was a crazy time.
Do you know what those guys are doing now?
I do.
We're not talking. No, we're not involved.
Not involved.
Okay, keep it that way.
Yeah, we will. Right, okay. Yeah.
Good luck to them and their families. Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
No, but like, that was crazy because, like that was the first time we hit a hot offer, which was like the marketing, the messaging, the sales, the time, the environment, like everything lined up and it was fucking madness. I mean like the amount of sales, I mean it put seven.
Yeah, right.
Like it was that many that it was, you know, 20 sales a day, paid in full, just every single, like week. I was like, let's charge this for it. Let's church this for it. Let's church this for it. Got more expensive. They had an internal team at the time, and their internal team was selling it for one third what we were.
Yeah, right. Yeah.
So that, that's interesting. Let's explore that. Do you, with many offers, do you have the capacity to pricing?
Yeah, I like doing that. Because you want to like manipulate the close rates to be like, not too high.
Okay.
Because like you want to like, you know, it's. It's for example, like if I change the pricing at seventh level for. To be three grand for inner circle, I could sell a lot of them, an awful lot of them. But the admin required, it's just not worth it. So your pricing needs to be reflective of what you want.
Right.
Like if I know that I can generate 7,000 leads a month, like on average we make say 250 sales, 300 sales a month at seventh level. Right now for me is like the head of it. I'm like, well, I can make more money just charging more or we can make more money with more volume. Like, where are we at? Because I think like a 35% close rate is really good.
Okay.
Like that's a really good marker to let you know that, you know, one third, like one of those people is just odds too expensive. And then it's 50, 50 on the other two. It's like not timing or whatever. Right. But you're closing like 50 of like the qualified people who could fulfill the entire bill. I'm not talking about using that as a sales metric, but from like a business metric. I want to sell people who can fulfill their entire payment. Right?
Sure.
So if I'm selling one out of three, that's pretty good. So all I need to make sure is I booked a thousand sales calls. Thousand sales calls. It gave me 300 and something sales. It's like perfect now. I could make that way easier. I could make 700 sales if I want to. Just make it cheap as fuck or have rug payment plans. But it's just gonna break the mechanisms of the business. So for me, it's like if that, if that close rate creeps up to like 40, 45, 50%, it's like, oh, price increase. And then like the guys would go, then the close rates would drop to 25 because it's new pricing and. But you'll make the same money, right? Right, right. Then it will creep back up to like 30, 35% as they get more comfortable, then it'll start. If the marketing gets better and, you know, everyone's doing what they should do for more reach and you know, we have a book coming out and all this kind of stuff, then we should have more engaged leads with more want.
Right.
So then from there it creeps back up again and then we go, sweet price increase, you know, because, like, I want to keep that number of sales relatively similar. But if we want to make more money, because I don't want to onboard 700 people a month, I mean, that'd be fucking madness.
Yeah.
Like, just the, the infrastructure that I'd have to build would require that we maintain that.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Right.
So it's like right now I've got an infrastructure that can easily maintain the 300, maybe 500 on the challenge month. Like, we kind of, everyone goes like that, and then from there we kind of go back down to our set point and that's really profitable. But if I, if I got up much higher than that, we'd have to like, build out so much more that, like, we'd be obligated to sell that many.
Right.
So right now the obligation that we have is around that 200. Like, we have to sell around 200, usually based on price points and that kind of stuff. An average front end cash collection to know that everything's good to go, but 200 is a fucking cakewalk. That's not difficult. Yeah. So I'd rather leave it like that.
Yeah.
And then just, you know, like somewhat not cap, but realize that, like, you know, if you get one, if you want Tony Robbins, like, you can do Tony Robbins, like, we, we could potentially make seventh level that big in the next 10 years, 15 years. Right. But I mean, dude, I couldn't even imagine what his staffing would be.
Yeah.
And it's like, are we making. If I get the business to $10 million a month, like, it's $120 million a year company. And just coaching, like, does the net make sense or could I make $20 million net on 50 and then make $30 million net on 120? You know, that's kind of where I would think it would go.
Yep.
So it's like find the sweet spot and then just from there go verticals or horizontals or diagonals or whatever. Don't just keep like piling on. Because like, a business that big, just coaching people would be horrendous.
Yeah.
I think scaling up that infrastructure is super hard as well.
Right.
Like, you can't just, you can't just add. You can't just go like double it overnight. It's got to grow slowly and then you lose.
Well, no, it's easy to double it overnight. That's, that's the bad thing.
How do you mean?
Well, it's really easy just to throw people at it.
Right, right.
So the hard thing is doing it incrementally. So it's actually way easier just to go, all right, well let's just take, let's do a $400,000 budget for the next 30 days or next 90 days, build the infrastructure, just pile people and process into it and then go.
Right.
That's actually not that difficult.
Okay.
What's difficult is doing it incrementally and doing it like on a budget.
Right.
Like that's how come that's more difficult. What is it about that?
It's because like you're, you're. It's because like you sort of have to do it on really short term planning cycles because like you don't want to. If you want to maintain like an operating expenses to revenue sort of ratio, which is what I'm trying to do, then it's like I have to project out my revenue and then I've got to project out my operating expense and then I've got to like titrate that because you obviously you make more money towards the back end of your year than what you do the front end if you're growing, you know, so then it's like, okay, well I need to set my opex budget at say 390,000 and then 390 and then 450. So like it means that I have to plan it out very meticulously and make sure that I don't over infrastructure with people. But I also don't underdo it because if you are growing, then you have to grow with people as well. But doing that at the right ratio is really tough. It's actually easier just to flood it with people and then try and have the revenue catch up.
Yeah, right.
Okay. Yeah.
But it's like.
Yeah.
So what's the downside in that?
Well, the downside of that is that you end up with like four months of no money.
Right.
Because you got everybody to it or, or in the build up, you mean?
Yeah, yeah.
So because your revenue's got to catch up, but that's not a guaranteed. Just because now you have higher fulfillment and, and better operations doesn't mean that you're going to move the needle on a revenue standpoint.
Right?
It means that you move the needle from a deliverability standpoint. You, you have the ability to earn more money, but you haven't done it yet.
Yeah.
So like, that's the trick. And that's like, that's what, you know, that's why you borrow money. Like, you'd borrow money to do that. And that's what we've done in the past was like dump infrastructure, then try and catch up. Dump infrastructure, catch up. And like, I think that's a good way to do it early on. But then as you get to a level, like if I was to increase our OPEX dramatically, I mean, it would go to like, quite high levels. You know, you'd be going, you'd be approaching 7 to $800,000 a month in fixed bills. If I was to just kind of stack it up to where I think we're going to be at the end of the year. Like the OPEX that I projected for the end of the year, I think is a million dollars a month. Right. For the end of 2023 at seventh level, that's my operating expenses. So staffing that doesn't include ad spend and commissions, that's separate. But that's a lot. If I was to do that now, that'd be a real issue.
Yeah. Okay.
You know, so I've got to figure out a plan to build that up over the next year to where it makes sense so we can deliver what we want to deliver at the end. But if I do it too early, I'll cash starve the business.
Right.
Which is no bueno. And then you can't grow because you got no fucking money.
Yeah.
You need to throw money into ads and stuff like that in order to grow. So it's really hard sort of dichotomy because like, well, do I throw the money into ads now and then build up the revenue, but deliver a shit service for three months?
Right.
Or. Which is easy but shitty.
Yeah.
Or do I throw a bunch of money to people and then build all the people side up, but then I cash starve the business to where now it's really difficult to grow the business because I don't have the extra funds for the.
What are the downsides that you've seen? You know, if people do grow too quickly without having the operational side of it so the back end isn't done.
You just get refunds.
Yeah.
And so, but what does that look like usually, like within that delete, like the delivery, you mean?
Exactly.
What happens?
Yeah.
Right. So what, what happens is the first thing they do is they throw. They're just throwing all their money's ads.
Right, Right.
So you're, you're like I've seen people go from 500 a day to 20,000 a day.
Okay. Right, yeah.
And I'm talking in like the span of six months.
Right.
Because they have us doing sales and I have not infinite, but I can just shove salespeople into an account. Like if it's going well, I can just add, add, add. They've never experienced that before. I can go, yeah.
So let me paint the picture. I'm a business owner. I've got a course, it's a $3,000 product. I've had a marketing budget that has been working fine. I've decided I'm going to outsource the sales. You take over my sales and suddenly my sales double because. Because someone who knows what they're doing is doing it.
Yeah.
I then go, wow, imagine if I spent more money.
Imagine if I go, hey, I'm going to increase the ad spend. I go, sweet, just let me know, just let me know each week what the spend is going to be increasing by. And then whatever like expected leak call volume. I'll make sure the people there to hit it.
Okay, cool. So I go from 500 a week to $20,000 a week.
A day.
A day. Okay. So I now have 20 times the amount of.
You now got about 20 sales reps. Yeah. Right.
And you fulfill that no problem.
Because it's fine.
You can.
My job.
And the sales reps continue on the trend that they were maybe conservatively because it's new guys on it quite as well.
Yeah. So then. Well, it's, it's not that. It's. It's more like there's just so much volum that like the quality can't stay.
Okay.
Right. But things are still going well. Everything's still profitable. Then what happens is like you'll hit. It's usually around like, I don't know, I've seen like 10,000 a day is when it can get really, really pear shaped. As soon as you go over 2,000 a day, everything changes.
Okay.
Everything changes at 2,000 a day.
Yeah.
As an ad spend you're talking about.
Yeah, like, like it, like if you picture Facebook advertising as a highway with billboards. There are only so many billboards. Right. So ad placement is. Where do I put the build? I put it on the on ramp, the off ramp, Do I put it. You know what I mean? So media buyers are just placing media. I'm going to put it Here, here, here, here, here, here, and here to these people with these interests, all this kind of stuff. At that level, it is fucking difficult to. The frequency at which people see your ads becomes much higher, right? So as soon as you start spending that much money for that long, everyone's seeing your fucking ads. So as soon as it starts creeping up, cost of acquisition will naturally creep up, right? And then, especially if your fulfillment shitting the bed and you've got refunds or, like, you're just not able to deliver. Like, at one point, we were selling, you know, like 50 to 60 done for you Amazon stores a month. Like, and then the course is on top. And so it's like the guy had to fulfill 60 businesses a month. You know, they're 70 grand a pop. Whatever it was, it's just fucking silly. It was crazy, right? And then, you know, we started getting complaints anyway. It's a whole thing. But what generally happens is we'll go, hey, man, like, lead quality is getting really poor. Like, the longer you do that for, the worse the leads will get. So then we'll put filtering mechanisms in, right? Because we were just getting everyone. Because, like, after a while, like, everyone's seeing your ads for so long, they just fucking opt in at a curiosity.
They just click it because they just.
Want it to stop. Yeah. So they're like, all right, well, let's see what this is all about, right? And then, like, the demographic gets worse and worse and worse and worse because they open up targeting to be more broad and more generic to account for the amount of spend to bring down frequency.
Okay?
So then what we would do is we'd bring in filtering metrics so that, like this, before they even get to the sales guys, they have to answer certain questions. And based on volume, we'll slide those metrics up and down so we're always full, right? Because we don't want to be over full. Because then nobody turns up, like, because they're booked out 14 days out. So we just always try and stay full for, like, 96 hours.
Right, right.
So then what tends to happen is when the leads get a lot worse because their targeting becomes so broad, like, cost of acquisition, because we have to start filtering tons of leads because they're just like, they're in no position to buy anything. So we have to just filter them all out. And then from there, cost of acquisition starts creeping. This is when I come to the table and I go, hey, man, this is what's happening. Cost of acquisitions climbing. Close rates are lowering. It's the Same team. It's a marketing issue, but you're hitting it too hard. You have to back off your spend like you have to, man. Otherwise, like, this shit's going to collapse. Your delivery can't handle. Anyway, let's back off a little bit, regroup. I can help some delivery mechanisms or whatever, pointing their hands, right to people. Let's give. Let's get some content out there so we can get some goodwill in the marketplace instead of just, you know, just going ads. And I go, nah, I'm going to spend more money. Great idea. This is a fence. This is never going to go. And that's the time where I go, hey, this account's got three months left. We need to start looking for a new one.
Right, Right.
And then for sure enough, they just start chasing revenue because they're now used to making $3 million or $4 million a month. So now what they do is they go and they ramp it. 20,000 bucks a day, 25,000 bucks a day. And then you just see cost of acquisition skyrocket. 10, 15 grand, like, it's madness. And it's like they're just chasing revenue. And then what happens is like, as soon as, like the. So you should be doing like a reach and a conversion type of marketing, right? You got reach, you're putting stuff out there and then you're trying to convert a percentage of them. But when you start spending money like that, you outpace your own market. Yeah, you outpace you. So now you have people who have no idea who you are being marketed to. You know, makes no sense. So then they just outspend themselves into oblivion. And no, meantime, none of them have put any money into delivery. So now they're being attacked by the ftc, the Better Business Bureau, personal lawyers, all that kind of stuff, and everything goes to. And that is the life cycle of a biz op coach. Okay. But I think the bad ones anyway.
We say that like, of a biz op coach, because that's the especially difficult delivery, right?
Yeah, you gotta start a business.
Yeah.
So there's a real limit on that. Have you ever seen the similar thing, but where the delivery is easy? Like where it's, you know, it's an online course and there's a zoo. Like there's a monthly coaching call or something like that. The deliverables is you get access to a portal. Have you ever seen anyone burn that out?
Yes, but not. But their program is really good.
Okay.
Like, I've seen them just exhaust reach.
Right, right.
Like, just like you got nothing Left.
Yeah.
Because they just didn't put the work into like making themselves really marketable. So like one of the business. But I think also there were some background reasons they did. I think they sort of did it on purpose.
Okay. Right. Okay.
Yeah. But I've definitely seen like coaches that. You see a lot of coaches that will come up and then sort of fizzle out. A lot of it's just because like they managed to hit like a hot hook, you know? Like right now the hot hook is done for you. Appointment setters.
Okay.
Like a lot of appointment. That's sort of the hook. Right? Like get tons of appointments through having these savage appointment setters. The only problem is like all of them suck.
Okay.
Like, you know, I mean like my appointment setters would outdo them 20 to 1.
Right.
Because I put my numbers up of like, well, this is what I get my guys to do. Like, what did you get your guys did? Like that's not even possible. I was like, that's literally the minimum.
Okay.
You know, you know. So appointment setters is a big one closing done for you. Sales agencies right now is really big.
Yeah.
Like I do it. Been doing it for a while.
Yeah.
I think we're like the OGs now at this point.
Yeah. Yeah.
Like the most established. There's a couple other ones. A couple of other sales guys that I fired for being terrible at sales that have started some out to them.
Yeah.
I wish them all. Wish them and their families all the best in their future endeavors.
Yeah.
So like, you know, those are kind of hot offers I think at the moment. I think done for you is definitely killing done with you. You know, there seems to be like a real waning of like the just pure coaching agencies.
Sure.
They seem to be really struggling and the ones that actually bring something to the table, you know, that can do something for you.
Yeah, that's.
That's really so.
So the forefront.
Like we have so many inquiries at sales Sniper. Like we couldn't for.
Done for.
Done for yourselves. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, it's a first world problem to have.
Yeah.
But I also think that that model as well needs to probably be evolved. So we're looking at evolving that model just to make it more long term.
Okay.
Because it's like right now it's like, it's a great model, but it's a great model for a business in a specific part of its growth.
Right.
You know, whereas like, so like there's a. There's an end to the relationship.
So what does that look like?
Soon as Usually as soon as someone gets to like you know, over eight.
Figures, they want to bring everything internal.
They want to bring everything internal, which, which makes sense, you know, so like. But they're not equipped to run or manage that team. So like what I've seen a lot of the time is we be to build a business up to a million million five a month, get replaced by an internal team and they have this huge drop off, you know, and it's like, well, yeah man, like I, I cultivated that, you know, it took me a while to figure that out.
Yeah.
You know like there is one business that we were doing, the external sales and they had an internal sales team and the roas that we had was 24x.
Right.
And their internal ROAS was like 6.
Okay.
Right. So return of ad spend and they, they spent seven months trying to fire us and could not figure out how we were doing it. They just, they only we were so much more expensive than their internal team that it was not until their internal team got to eight that we got fired.
Right, okay.
Because they were paying like way lower commissions to them. So the actual profitability, even though our return of ad spend was so high, the profit was the same at that point.
Right.
So then they removed us.
Right, right.
And like I didn't really care to be honest, but they just didn't. Couldn't figure out how we were doing it. And they were like, how are you doing it? I was like, why would I tell you? This makes no sense.
Yeah.
You know, but had they come to me and said, hey, we'd love you to help build our internal team.
Yeah.
I would have gone, okay, yeah, I can do that. And then I would have built out an internal team for them. So what we're looking at doing is like done for you. Sales that transitions into like us building out full internal systems and structures, recruiting for that, training them, managing them, then pulling our closers out, managing that team for like another 12 months.
Yeah.
And then recruiting and hiring a sales manager and then handing it off. So it's like a two year relationship. You know what I mean? So it's like build it up, maintain it and then leave, you know, and then that way the business has an interocal ability. Because if we come in like we do everything, they wouldn't have a clue what their sales process is. We tell them everything, they have to have a look but no one cares because if it's working, they don't give a fuck. Right. Money coming in, money coming out, it's all working. Those guys Those guys have got it covered and we do. But like that transition has to happen in that model, I think for it to be a really long lasting relationship.
Yeah. Okay.
Which is what we're working on at the moment. And because we've been a sales agency for a long time now, you know, I know all the pitfalls of the model on both sides of it because I have a coaching company, you know, which hired sales snipers are done for you sales team. You know what I mean? So like. Yeah, I know both sides.
Yeah.
So.
So let me just take a step back with a really good delivery mechanism that doesn't need scaling. It's online itself. People just go, they, they get access to a portal, maybe a zoom call, whatever. The big risk where you see people themselves in that space is just because they can deliver. Fine. It's just their cost of leads or the cost of acquisition that, that impacts it to the point where there's probably a sweet spot or you hit a point of diminishing return.
Yeah.
For a lot of businesses it's like 300 to 350k a month.
Okay.
Is like, that's a real sweet spot.
Right.
Like that, that seems to be the point where people struggle to grow past, but I think they struggle to grow past it because it's so profitable at that point that why would they.
Yeah, okay.
Like, it's not that they don't know how to.
Yeah.
It's like, well, man, just build out some delivery, do some more content, spend more money on advertising. Like, it will work. You know what I mean? Like go out there. But they get stuck there. Because like sometimes at a coaching business at 350k a month, you can run it at 60% net.
Yeah. Right.
That dude's taken home $175,000 a month into his personal bank account. Why fuck with that?
Yeah, yeah.
You know, and the problem that I always had with businesses that they were like, yeah, we want to scale, but they didn't want to with that number.
Yeah.
And I was like, well, well, dude.
Like that number has to drop.
That number has to drop.
Yeah.
Like you can build, but the problem is you're looking to get to 600 or 700 before you make that kind of money again.
Right.
You're gonna have to like nearly triple the business or double the business to get back to a point where you're making the same money that you were personally when it was half the size. And like a business is twice the size is four times less fun to run.
Have you ever had that conversation Someone, and they've gone, well, fuck it, we'll just stick with what we're doing.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. All the time.
Yeah.
It's a really good conversation.
Yeah.
Like, you talk people out of growing, out of bringing you on, or you're probably already doing the sales.
Right.
But, like, talk them out of growing and say, hey, let's just coast along doing what we're doing because you're going to make less money if we get any bigger.
Yeah. Or the thing is, like, if they want help with growth, it's like, all right, cool, man. Like, what do you make now? Like, you got to tank that to, like, a 10 margin for a bit.
Wow.
You know, so it's like, because if you really want to grow, like, if you really want to grow aggressively, then, like, that's what you want. But, like, the thing is, I think people, what they say versus what they actually want. Like, if I was to go, okay, what if we grew at 2% month over month?
Mm, wonderful.
Wonderful. Sounds fantastic. The compounding effect is actually pretty significant. You're looking at probably growing 100 throughout the year. You know, um, so, like that. But it doesn't sound that sexy.
Yeah. Yeah.
Like, all of my projections have been off 4% per month.
Okay.
That's usually what I average out at. So, like. And they're usually pretty accurate. 4% gross per month. Compounding is a pretty significant growth.
Yeah.
Fuck, yeah.
That's huge. Yeah.
But it doesn't sound very sexy.
No.
You know, so the other thing you sort of touched on there was the reach versus conversion. They said that if you do too much conversion advertising you out, you outpace your reach. Means that people who are. Let me see if I understood correctly.
People have never heard of McDonald's are not going to be interested in a Big Mac.
Yeah. So if you're advertising to sell more than you're just putting out free content about your product or awareness, or at the least, you know, depending on what the product is. But just having people know what it is, that is actually what's going to drive your cost of acquisition so much higher. Because marketing to people who don't, like, they're seeing your ad but don't even know what the fuck.
Yeah. Like, if you're paying, I'll just use like. Like random. If you're paying for a million people a month to see your advertising, but through your organic or, like, your conversion material. But if 500,000 are seeing your content, that's a real problem because twice the amount of people are seeing you Try and sell them something versus you are trying to give them value.
Yeah.
So like that's why branding is a thing. Like, it's why like, you know, Coca Cola would have $150 million a year branding budget with no discernible KPI. Just, hey guys, go out and spend this money making sure that people know.
Make sure people keep recognizing the logo.
Exactly. That's it. And so like one of the initiatives that we're looking at, like that I've been asked to price out by Marco is like the hiring of a very high level CMO to do nothing but branding for any pq.
Yeah, right.
That's it. So it's like. And he wants to burn 200 grand a month.
Wow.
So on that alone, on that alone, he's like, he wants to have a $200,000 a month budget to just burn on branding.
Wow.
And I was like, that's a lot of money. Yeah, that includes a cmo. So.
Yeah. So that's the salary of the person.
It's a salary. But I mean the salary is not going to be. That guy said probably 300 grand a year. 3, 3, 3, 400 grand a year for like a really good high level CMO that's done branding. He's got to, got to go recruit someone and the recruiting fee is going to be like fucking 100 grand.
Yeah.
You know, so, but what would that look like?
You know, because I think that's one of the tricky things about any PQ. 7th level is like it's sales, but it's kind of niche. You know what I mean? Like everyone can drink Coke.
Like one out of every eight employed positions is sales.
Okay.
And every single business has sales.
So that would be the goal then is to like make that the. That's the thing is you have someone doing any percussion.
Yeah, exactly. Right. So the problem is like we have Jeremy. Jeremy is a finite resource. I can only get so much out of him. And then I've got seventh level. And I don't know if seventh level as a name because it's not a method, it's just a name has the legs. So it's like. But NEPQ is a method. So like methods will outlast the person who, if it's good, the person who conceived it. So like any PQ should be able to get larger than what Jeremy is. Because if we want to remove Jeremy like have from needing to be the guy on camera, which is a really limited.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, because like right now we have people who desperately want us to do keynotes, but it's like, well, I mean, how much flying around can I do from that dude? Because it needs to do three to four training sessions a week with our clients. He needs to shoot 50 reels a month. Each reel is five minutes, you know, and it gets cut down. He has to do, like, 10, 15 podcasts a month on other people's podcasts. He has to do four a month on our podcast. Like, it's a lot of content, man.
Yeah.
Like, so, like, he's a finite resource that I have to sort of manage.
And all that content goes into that basket of reach.
Of reach. Yeah. And so the reason why, like, like, our advertising budget is a joke, how small it is. I mean, like, we're, you know, we're spending a tenth or a fifth. What some of the guys.
Yeah.
Who are like, our competitors are.
But I mean, realistically, with Jeremy, that is because people know him, and now your advertising is just giving him a link to click.
Right.
Like, that's really what it is. By the time you're seeing an ad for Jeremy, you've been following him, you know who he is.
But the reason why, like, like, our advertising budget is a joke, how small it is. I mean, like, we're. We're, you know, we're spending a tenth or a fifth. What, some of the guys.
Yeah.
Who are, like, our competitors are.
But I mean, realistically, with Jeremy, that is because people know him and now your advertising is just giving him a link to click, Right.
Yeah. Just not that hard to make. It's like, that's a difficult thing to engineer.
Yeah.
So we've engineered that and it's taken us a year to where now it's like, hitting.
Yeah.
The traction levels. Like, I was talking to our content repurposer and she was like, you can see all that.
Like, that's really what it is. By the time you're seeing an ad for Jeremy, you've been following him, you know who he is.
Data where, like, some of these inflection points have now started being hit. We're like, everywhere does. Yeah. But that's just not that hard to make. It's like, that's a difficult thing to engineer.
Yeah.
Right. So we've engineered that and it's taken us a year to where. Now it's like hitting this. And every YouTube video does this. And all the followers, like, you can sort of see it. It's like the platforms, like.
Yeah.
The traction levels. Like, I was talking to our content repurposer and she was like, you can see all the. They make you. It's almost like they're like, hey, if you want people to see you for free, like, you gotta. You gotta give us your time, your energy, your effort. You need to data where, like, some of these inflection points have now started being hit. Where, like, every real does prove to us that you have the stamina to do this over the long term.
Yeah.
This is not just a flash in the pan cat video. This and every YouTube video does this. And all the followers, like, you can sort of see it. It's like the platform's like, yo, guy.
Yeah.
Because we're sick of those cat video guys because no one buys shit from them.
Yeah. Yeah.
Whereas, like, with Jerry, they make you. It's almost like they're like, hey, if you want people to see you for free, like, you gotta. You gotta give us your time, your energy, your effort.
Yeah.
You need to me, like, he is a hyper monetizable asset for Facebook, for YouTube. Like, so once they figure that out, they will open up the floodgates to him. Prove to us that you have the stamina to do this over the long term.
Yeah.
It's not just a flash in the pan cat video. And they'll be like, everyone will see your. Because we make a ton of money off you.
Yeah.
You know your guy.
Yeah.
Because we're sick of those cat video guys because no one buys from them.
Yeah. Yeah.
Whereas, like, with Jerry, how much of.
That do you think is real person driven versus algorithm for me?
Like, he is a hyper monetizable asset for Facebook, for YouTube. Like, so once they figure that out, they will open up the floodgates to him. I think it'd be all algorithm.
Do you reckon they ever have at those companies? They have meetings on that? On, like that.
Oh, for sure. I mean, like, listen, there are like, some crazy people who have like. Like the Young Turks.
Yeah, Right.
Like, they're getting prioritized on every. And they'll be like, everyone will see your. Because we make a ton of money off you.
Yeah.
You know, how much of that do you think is real person driven versus algorithm platform?
You know, but their content is, for the most part, fairly garbage.
Yeah.
Like, just the. I think it'd be all algorithm.
Do you reckon they ever have at those companies? They have meetings on that. On, like that.
Oh, for sure. I mean, like, listen, there are, like, some crazy people. Production's just not that interesting.
Yeah.
But then you got Steven Crowder.
Yeah.
Has phenomenal content. Like, he gets down, regulated and everything yeah. Because people don't like him. Whether you agree with him or not, that dude's a showman.
Yeah. Yeah.
He's hilarious.
Yeah.
Interesting segments, well, well produced, you know, same with who have, like. Like the Young Turks.
Yeah, Right.
Like, they're getting prioritized on every fucking platform, you know. But their content is, for the most part, fairly garbage.
Yeah.
Like just the Shapiro stuff. I mean, it's excellent, you know, so.
And it's because it's a political thing.
Production's just not that interesting.
Yeah.
But then you got Steven Crowder.
Yeah.
Has phenomenal content. Like, he gets down, regulated and everything.
Yeah.
Because people don't like him. Whether you agree with him or not, that dude's a showman.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Turks, numbers and yeah, they go away.
They're crazy. But I mean, like, some of their key investors were also key investors and, yeah. YouTube and stuff like that. So, like, it all kind of makes sense. I don't have a problem with that. I can make a profit. Go for it. It's not like it's a publicly owned platform. It's a. He's hilarious.
Yeah.
Interesting segments. Well, well produced, you know, Same with private company.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Fuck, yeah.
Yeah. But I think, like, for the most part with something like Jeremy, like Shapiro stuff, I mean, it's excellent, you know, so.
But it's because it's a political thing.
That you're looking Turks, numbers and.
Yeah, they go away.
They're crazy. But I mean, like, some of their key investors were also key investors and yeah. YouTube and stuff like that. So, like, it all kind of makes sense. Not like anyone at YouTube's. Like, we should really. We should really give a. About this Jeremy Minor guy.
Yeah.
But I think at some point maybe they do.
Right.
Like at a certain point in those platforms, they look at people as individuals and they get like. Like Casey Neistat can call someone from YouTube.
Yeah.
You know what I mean? Like, he can call someone and say, yeah, hey, I. I don't have a problem with it.
I can make a profit. Go for it. It's not like it's a publicly owned platform. It's a private company.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I think, like, for the most part with something like Jeremy. Like, it's not like anyone at YouTube's. Like, we should really. We should really give a. About this Jeremy Minor guy.
Yeah.
But I think at some point maybe they do.
Right.
Like at a certain point in those. I want this or So I think.
There'S two things, though, with that. It's how Much money you spend on the platform. So Grant Cardone can call some money you. YouTube. He's the highest spender on.
Right.
Facebook platforms. They look at people as individuals, and they get like. Like, Casey Neistat can call someone.
And the Highest spender on YouTube.
Right.
Right. So, like, he calls the answer. The other one is, how much do you make them? Do you make them?
Yeah.
Which is Casey Neistat.
Yeah.
Who's been making them from YouTube.
Yeah.
You know what I mean? Like, he can call someone and say, yeah, hey, I. I want this, or.
So I think with two. There's two things, though, with that. It's how much money you spend on the platform. So Grant Cardone can call someone at YouTube. He's the highest spender on.
Right.
Facebook. $10 million a month or whatever it is.
Yeah.
For a long time.
Yeah.
So. And, like, he's created so much stuff that is just evergreen that, you know, he's a cash cow for them.
Yeah.
So I think it's what you spend, and I don't think. I don't think we would get to the level of either.
Okay.
Book and the Highest spender on YouTube.
Right.
So he calls the answer. So I think, like, we'll be picked up. Like, I was talking about. I was talking about Brad, and, like, his content now is. She showed me all the content curves on his channel. It was crazy. And it just went like that. The other one is, how much do you make them? Do you make them?
Yeah.
Which is Casey Neistat.
Yeah.
Who's been making them. $10 million a month. Whatever it is.
Yeah.
For a long time.
Yeah.
So. And, like, he's created so much stuff that is just evergreen that, you know, he's a cash cow for them.
Yeah.
So I think skyrocketed.
Yeah.
And it was like the critical mass had been hit where, like, it's what you spend. And I don't think. I don't think we would get to the level of either.
Okay.
The relevant score of the profile was high enough. So she. So Mandy had a meeting with Instagram. She. She knows them, and YouTube and Brad's relevant score had never dropped below a 10.
Right. Okay.
So on Instagram, like, he is the perfect Instagram.
Right.
His Instagram is perfect.
I love to hear that.
It is never, ever. So I think, like, will be picked up. Like, I was talking about. I was talking about Brad, and, like, his content now is. She sold me all the content curves on his channel. It's crazy. And it just went like that. Just skyrocketed.
Yeah.
And it was like the critical mass had been hit where, like, every single post is a relevant score of 10.
Yeah. Right.
So, like, it's so appetizing for the people that follow him. It's perfect. So that's why it just goes. The relevant score of the profile was high enough. So she. So Mandy had a. They've never put a dollar into a shout out. Nothing. The dude's gone from like a meeting with Instagram because she. She knows them and YouTube and Brad's relevant score had never. 20,000 to 800,000 in a couple years. Years.
Yeah.
Just through 100 organic posting or drop below a 10.
Right. Okay.
So on Instagram, like, he is the perfect Instagram.
Right.
His Instagram is perfect.
I love to hear that. It is never, I think especially there's a viral sound with Brad.
Every single post is a relevant score of 10.
Yeah. Right.
So, like, it's so appetizing.
Have you heard, like, it's him talking about, you are the content. You don't like, don't try and make content. You are the content. And that got you, like, that became a trending sound. And my guess is that brought a lot of people to him. Like, that would have been a tipping point for him because when that came up in my face, funny.
You think that wasn't engineered. No, but I've talked to the people.
Oh, really?
Yeah, yeah.
Well, of course, like, yeah, I'm sure that they did it on purpose.
Yeah.
I've tried to do it as well. I've got like, sounds of me going like you and hoping that people make funny things out of it.
You an idiot. Yeah, Like, I've tried it for the people that follow him. It's perfect. So that's why it just goes pull it off.
Never successfully.
But like even like the making of fake accounts and stuff like that is a strategy to get you to boost. Interesting strategies.
Yeah, right.
Expand on that.
What do you mean? Oh, so like they've never put a dollar into a shout out. Nothing. The dude's gone from like 20,000 to 800,000 in a couple years.
Yeah.
Just through 100% organic posting.
I think especially there's a viral sound with Brad.
The reason, the only reason why you get a blue check, the only actual reason why you get a blue check is to stop people from thinking that someone is you.
Yeah.
Impersonating.
That's it.
So, yeah, if you want one, you could make an account.
I would say if somebody was to make lots and lots and lots of fake accounts.
Yeah.
Then one the good thing is you control those names. So, like, if you have a profile that you want to protect, just make every other profile make with the underscores and the E in the wrong place and all. You know, real Matt Ryder and, you know, real Matt Ryder and all that kind of stuff.
Yeah. So making fake accounts is a great way to. Have you heard, like, it's him talking about, you are the content. You don't like, don't try and make contest to find. Needing a blue tick.
Yeah. But also it's a great way to protect people from having fake accounts.
Yeah.
And you are the content. And that got like, that became a trending sound and my.
Yeah, yeah.
So occupy those spaces so other people.
Yeah, it's really, really good.
Yeah. Yeah.
Jesus. You could go down the rabbit hole and do that to a million different things though, right? Like. Yeah, like people get creative about where the underscores are and all that kind of shit.
Yeah. But I think if you've got like all the low hanging fruit ones and maybe it's just, you know, it's like an alarm, you know, like locking your door. Doesn't stop people from breaking in. Just stops the people who can't be fucked actually trying.
Yeah.
Which is most of them.
That's a good point.
You know.
That's a good point.
Yeah, it's a good point to end on.
Totally. All right, well, we bounced around a bit. Started on crypto. We had our winch. I had my winch.
Sorry, you have been hurt.
Crypto. I'm gonna start investing in guns and ammo. That's what I'm investing.
Yeah. All right.
And then we.
Good quality soil.
Yeah, that's where it's at, is where it's at. If you like this kind of stuff, let us know, Hit us in the comments, like the video, all that kind of stuff. And we'll see you next week.
Bye. Put that coffee down.
