Answering Your Top Sales Questions For 1-Hour (Live Q and A)
Matt Ryder answers live sales questions from the audience on follow-up procedures, lead qualification, career advice, and handling difficult scenarios. Participants include Pablo, William, Nelson, Dan, GT10, Seth, BJ, and Matt Ryder in a one-hour Q and A session.
Follow up sequence with them. Is there a specific way that usually works better than others or just kind of keep like if they keep pushing back that, that date of getting started or it's kind of just like the urgency kind of is diminished. Is there a good follow up procedure or what a rep should do at that position? Is they just mark loss and we hit them in a reactivation or do we keep still having that follow up touch point with them until they potentially make a purchase and considering they are.
Qualified, I mean, I guess the question is like if people are going to buy in the somewhat distant future and like they're like, I would like to maintain contact. I think you should. If they don't, then don't. Like it shouldn't be a subjective call. Like it should be a conversation with the prospect of like, hey, would you like me to continue like kind of know, following up with you and, and sort of doing this because you're interested? And there's like logistical barriers. I think what you don't want to confuse is sales reps not being able to close people and just calling all the time with follow up. Follow up is somebody with an interest and I want to do it with a logistical hurdle. So like they're like pretending like, oh, the guys, they're in, boss, they're in, they're giving, you know what I mean? They're just like chasing these people.
So it's the difference between challenging something like a challenging and objection that they potentially had on that call versus like them not going through that objection handling or them not being able to close them but using that kind of distant follow up and yeah, call me next week, call me next week. I don't have the money, I have whatever, blah, blah, and kind of keep pushing through there. That's, that's kind of like something they probably did wrong there. It's not like a logistical thing where, hey, call me in a week, I'm gonna get the cashier or like I.
Don'T agree with your underlying premise because then you're assuming that even if you do everything right, they'll want to buy it. The big one.
That's a big one.
Because it's just not the case. Yeah, you know, maybe she's just not that into you, bro. You can do everything perfect and they don't buy. So like in that standpoint, if I.
Don'T mean to cut you off, but in that standpoint if they, let's say you do do everything and you do do everything and then let's say they don't buy is that still worth potential follow up or just have them if they want it.
Okay, so you know, like listen, I've been, I've been married for 16 years but you know, when I was chasing my wife, like she wanted it. You know what I mean? That sounds a bit more vulgar than what it was probably meant to, but you know, like it was a, it was the pursuit of someone who wanted to be pursued. If, if, if you're, if your sales guys are like, if they're defaulting to a follow up to avoid rejection. Right? Like that's what you need to figure out. Or are they handling objections well and then like creating a long term pipeline of people who are going to buy and are interested or are they just insistently calling people who really have no interest? Like are they, you know, at 2:00am sending fucking you up type shit? You know, it's like, yeah, okay, it's just inane drivel at that point. It's not anything of any level of.
Importance that makes sense. And then in B2B Legion, if you're doing like a, you know, a Facebook ad offer or whatnot, because I know there's, you know, the pain points of family and time, for instance, and going deep into that. Are those some things that are kind of more appropriate on a B2B or less appropriate to kind of touch into those points or it's kind of like on a prospect to prospect basis based on how sophisticated they are or what type of.
I think it depends on if you're realistically calling, calling it B2B when you're dealing with fucking, you know, the CEO of their own Etsy store or like.
Contractors in a service based business?
Yeah, like are they really, are they really B2B or is it more like business to, you know, business to sort. It's more of the, it's more of the middle ground. Right. It's like, you know, and I think that B2B is when there are multiple decision makers. That's how I like to describe because like everyone's a business, you know, get.
A DBA in your business.
So B2B had this fucking Etsy story the other day. They do, you know, $4 a week, you know, and it's B2B. It just sounds good to say so.
There'S a gray area, you can still go into it and it's not like not appropriate or appropriate.
Again, it depends on the avatar. Like in, in true B2B sales, the, the problem awareness phase is far more in depth and there are more, more stakeholders like There are multiple stakeholders that have to be introduced and there are like, multiple considerations. So, and, and money is not the biggest one. Right. So. Because, you know, if. And there, there are budgets involved and you know, if you're dealing directly with an owner, it's far more B2C. Right. So like, you just bash, you know, just sort of the answer to that one. But then you have more of a multi, multi stakeholder B2B type thing. You then send them into a different process. I see.
Okay, so for most cases. And that answers the question about where that kind of stands there.
Yeah, exactly. All right. Pablo.
Hi, Matt, nice to meet you. I have a question regarding what would you do if you were to start all over again in your sales career? I mean, which industry could you pursue be meaningful? Products, insurance, and tech.
I don't think it makes a difference because when you're starting out, like, you suck, right? So it's like, you know, but like, you're supposed to suck, so there's nothing like, wrong with that as long as you, like, counter it with activity, you know, like, if I'm not very good at shooting and I'm in a war, I'd like to machine gun. Like, that makes sense, you know, I mean, yeah, the better you get, you know, accuracy matters more. And so, you know, and to be really accurate, you can't use volume, doesn't work kind of any springs with things. So, you know, I don't think it matters. I think like something like an insurance can work, but you have to be careful and pick the right thing because, you know, lead generation becomes the biggest thing. I would say I would want to do something that was difficult and. Okay, well, there's a caveat to this. Do I live at home and do I need to make money? That's. That's one thing. If I live at home and need to make money. If I live at home and don't need to make money, I probably sell gym memberships in person. Okay. I walk the street and I try and get people to come into a commercial gym, right. So I'm learning in person. So I like in person, high volume, high rejection sales, or go and sell the paintball things, you know, you know, those guys, you know what I mean? Or they're, you know, like something that's very high touch point, very high interaction. Right? And that's difficult because. And that has a process, like people, companies that can teach you a very dedicated process, like Fitness first will teach you a very, very specific process that works so you can't complain about it not working because it definitely works because there's 700 clubs and that's how they do sales. So it's like, it's like it works, right? Virgin is Virgin has a good sales process. I, I know that because they have so many members, you know, like the proof is pudding. So something like that is really good. You know, I definitely don't want to do anything that is not high volume. Okay. I want to be as packed as humanly possible, being able to talk to as many people as I possibly can at all times. Because you will shortcut everything with volume. If you're doing book calls like we're just talking before. If you do, if you speak to four people a day inbound over the course of a year, you'll speak to a thousand people, right? If you do outbound or something high touch speak to 15 people a day, you do 4,000 over the year. So you will outshine that person four to one. So like the level of good that you'll be at the end of that year will be four times as much as that person is doing fucking inbound. Okay.
Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, just a little background. I have been in sales for two years, but I have been a mediocre sales rep for two years. So a little bit under one mil in cash collected in the info products. And I have seen that there is a lot of uncertainty in the info product space. So taking into consideration like having a good career path, do you think for example insurance is much safer has or for example tech sales is.
Listen, my, like Steph Curry will always put the ball in the hoop, right? So the key is like there is no such thing like as uncertainty or any of that if you're very good at what you do, right? Yeah, it's a symptom of and you know, and then, but it doesn't mean that you can't be successful because if you have a look at like volatility is far more obvious in low volume environments, right? Like if you get 10 calls per week and one week you close at 40 and one week you close at 10. You know, I mean it's like it's not that huge. It's, it, it's a monster of a difference. But it's like three people, like three people. Like you throw a rock hard enough, you hit three people, you know, so it's just not a lot of people. But it, but if you speak to you know, a thousand people, 10 and 40% is. That's a lot of people. So statistically it's significant 10 and 40%. Like, I speak to business owners all the time and go, oh man, last month my closers closed at 50%. This month they're at 20. They got mindset issues. It's like, dude, but you had 50 calls. It's like you're, you're talking about they have a good day and you're back to normal. Like, what are we discussing here? This is retarded. It's like, like you have to look at the math and like percentages only matter with volume. Percentages are irrelevant in small doses. And so like, you know, you have to have a look at like what you want to do. And there's the, and I think like, there's the art of making sales and there's the art of being, being like gifted on the phone. I think a lot of people spend a lot of time trying to be better on the phones, but they're not good at anything else. Whereas if you're good at everything else, which is just much easier to be better at, you wouldn't need to be as gifted on the phones. Like, the reason why I became like known for being good at sales, like, was it wasn't because like, like I had sold full time for eight years right before I any high ticket stuff. And so I had all of the skill sets of referrals, follow up outbound, like chasing people and like CRM hunting because I was paying for my own leads, right? Because I was the business owner and so I was doing all of that. And then when I transitioned into being a sales rep, I just kept doing all of that. And so I outperformed everybody 25 to 1 because they were just not doing anything then. I'd been a sales rep for a long time, so I had a bit more skill. And then when I got sales training, it all kind of fell together because I had that backlog of experience where I could then go, oh, I've experienced that 2,000 times. And I can see if I made that tweak, it would do this. Then I go, well, that makes sense. And then I could make small tweaks that had huge outputs. But because I had a backlog of tons and tons of tons of conversations, like tens of thousands of conversations, right now you're like 14 years old, right? So you haven't had the time to have. No. So like that's, that's, you know, a different story again. But I would say put yourself in an environment where you can like learn the skill sets of being a good rep and don't worry about Sales training too much, you know, worry about like how like go in there and like figure out how to make sales because you can be terrible at sales and make a ton. The way that I sell dialer is disgraceful. There is not an ounce of anything salesy in the slightest. It's just present and chase. That's it. Anyone could do it. They just don't chase as hard as me. That's the difference. Like I just relentlessly chase people because it's a B2B sale, there's nothing I can do to like make them buy on the day. Right. So I have a two call process. I have to do a proposal. But there's multiple stakeholders in every single one. And, and so if I like, I'm not, am I gonna do crunch them? Because they have to talk to their tech team to make sure that like some of the integration environments are gonna make sense. Like stupid. So it's just me relentlessly chasing people. And I like that. I enjoy it. I think it's fun. I, I, I, I like doing that, you know, and I like hopping on my phone and like that. And like that's a dopamine hit for me. Right. Sending on his own follow up procedure being like, does this worthy work? Question mark, you know?
Yes, thank you very much.
It's fun. It's chasing, it's hunting. Hunting people. I like hunting. Cool, cool. All right, next question.
Hey, Matt, was just wondering, going back to William's question, then I'll ask mine. So when do you actually burn the lead? When, if someone says they're not interested, when do you kind of hang the gloves up with the lead?
Well, they're not interested but they don't want to do it.
Or if they just say they're not interested and then they're like, I'm just about to duck into a meeting or just do you still follow up?
Or if they don't want to do it, I don't. Like what do we, Yeah, I mean, you know what I mean. Nah man, I'm not interested. All right, dude. Like, I mean I guess you could try and turn that around but like, I guess it would depend on the situation that you're in. Yeah, if, if I'm desperate for leads, it, or if I want to learn the skill set, it, you know, I mean but like if someone's like, oh, I do not want your product or service, like, all right, you only want to do, you know, like it's not a personal, nothing to be offended by. It's like, oh man, it's not for me. Thanks so much. All right, cool, dude. Not gonna have to change your mind, you know, like, not interested is a very specific. Like, you know, it's not an objection. You know, it's like, you know, it's like, I have to check out. She'll off. It's like. Yeah, she wants it, though. You know? I mean, like, probably not, I guess. You know, maybe you should just let her be. It just feels like, you know, we're just trying a bit too hard. It's not because they have a bad mindset. It's because, like, they just don't want it. Yep. You know, and. Yeah, I don't. Yeah, maybe other people think differently. It just seems like a. But, like, if you're getting that a lot. Like. Like, for example, if you're outbounding leads, right, and you're getting that a lot, then you'd be. Are you in Henderson?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the logo.
Um, I think I'll be in your office next week. Um, hello. Um. So, yeah, so, like, if you're getting that a lot, then you've got to go, ooh, why? Why am I getting that a lot? And that's different. And that's more like, is my opener causing the issue? So you've got to see if it's like, is this a me thing that's causing it? Like, am I outbounding people? And they're going, oh, dude, I'm just busy, mate. I'm not really interested right now. Like. Like, leave me alone. I would say that's a you thing. Yeah, right.
But if it's happening, like, one out of every 10 pickups or two out of, like, it's not. It's just more than they don't want it.
Yeah.
I mean, one out of 10 is, you know, is still high when you consider the fact that they're, like, opting in for something. Okay. You know what I mean? So, again, I would. I would have a look at the ratios of other people. If it's team wide, I would say, yeah, it's just normal. And then you just factor that in. But if you're, you know, track it and go, okay, cool. And then see if it's like, man, like, is there a common thread between the people that say that and don't? And am I causing this in some way? Or is there some commonality that I can find that would allow me to make an adjustment? You know, because it's very rare that I get, like. I mean, I can count on fucking one hand the times that people have Settled on outbound. I'm not interested. Like it's not common, you know, So I would look at that. All right, cool, thanks.
And also with as far as like inbound leads come and then right now I'm like booking the appointments. How deep do you get into the problem, the situation? Do you even go over consequence when booking an appointment or. Oh, I mean, not at all.
That's a business decision at the end of the day. So I can't tell you what to do. Yeah, like I wouldn't do that because I like Johnny and they pay me money and I don't want to fuck with that. Right. You know what I mean? So. But what I would say is that you don't want to do the job of the salesperson because you will fuck it up. Because like there's like it's minimum effective dose. Like I mean I have a look on dollar and I see people doing 45 minute set calls and it's like how is it longer than seven minutes? Yeah, okay. You know, like what, what are we discussing? You know, so it's like find a problem. Hey, I think our problem matches, I think our solutions match your problem. If you want I can book you in with a call, you can speak to the team and they can see if we can help you out. Would that work? Perfect. When are you free? Boom, done. Like it's five. If you're going that deep, you're just going to either like cause a no show, the sales rep has to double back, which is annoying. So it looks like you don't have congruence and communication inside your team, which makes you like less professional. You get people like desperately wanting to solve the problem now. So like when they get off the phone, they get targeted with the competitors ad and they buy immediately. You know, like you're doing the job of the competitor for you because you're driving. Makes sense. Yeah.
Do you go get much into the desired outcome?
And this is really basic overview because basic over because like what are we doing? You know, if the salesperson is going to go through that and they're going to need to do that to tie down the urgency so they can actually get the investment. You guys is expensive, like 40 GS or something, you know what I mean? So like you know they're gonna need to go through that on a call. Yeah. Okay, makes sense.
Thanks. Thanks Matt.
Yeah. All right, next one is Nelson. I'm going in order to answer. Hey Matt, nice to meet you.
So I run a mortgage brokerage and there's so there's no actual like transaction that happens.
Brokerage.
A mortgage.
Brokerage. Mortgage. Sorry. I think it's a large. Okay. Mortgage Brokerage. Yep.
And yeah, there's no like actual close, like where the transaction happens. So like a lot of leads, they're, they're like super keen. They agree to proceed like on the call because the pain so high, but then they ghost after that. So have you had like worked with any like similar situations like this or any like suggestions?
Yeah. So we always put in a close.
Lock in authority to proceed.
It's exactly what we do. Yeah. And. And make it a big deal. And then people pussy out because they get people telling them no and they think that that's a bad thing. It's like those people were never going to do it anyway, bro. So you do a definitive. Hey, this is the documentation that we use which is a confirmation that you are proceeding with this process. It doesn't mean that you'll be approved. Right. You know, I mean, but you're, you're confirming that we're proceeding and that you're going to go through and complete the documentation required. And then that way, because you need, you need, you need something to give you a concern or charge them 50 bucks. Yeah, true. Yeah. You have to create a friction point and then not be a. And like allow the friction point to be friction filled. Whereas what happens is people put it in and they start getting people like, like giving them concerns. Which point? Right. No. Instead of getting yeses and then ghosting, you know, and then you have to figure out how to get them to not say no. Right. But now you actually have the opportunity to problem solve it. Whereas you can't problem solve a process where there is no sale. You go, so you want to do it? You. Yeah. Hey guys, I got a 93 close rate. I'm a savage. And then like 2% of people end up selling, you know, so you've got to make the friction point and be diligent with it, then problem solve off it. Making sure that friction point stays a friction point. Yeah.
Like we've done like an authority to proceed like before, which it does like help sort of get like push them along, but then still like some just ghost still. Because there's no like.
Yeah, but unless I will get. I mean, obviously some people are going to go. But I guarantee you, if you listen to the wording, people minimize it. You maximize it. This is a confirmation that you are proceeding with the process and will give us the appropriate docs so that we can re, you know, so, so that we can refinance your mortgage. How do you want to proceed? But they're gonna go like, oh, it's a documentation that allows us to compile the documents for you. And, and you know, it's just, it just means that like we're able to represent you. And it's like yada, yada, yada. And they just act like about it because they don't want to hear no's because like their self worth is tied to. To some idiot. They don't know, like whether they say yes to a product that they don't even own. You know, so it's like just like you have to then force the invitation or just go, hey, in order to move forward. We have a 47 charge. Yeah.
Yeah, cool.
Thanks for that. Like, that's the only way to do it. Otherwise, like, you just end up in this nebulous zone of like, nobody ever like, dude, I work with a really big mortgage broker right now. I tripled them. Right. They're. They're doing. They went from like 20 to 60 settlements a month. Right. And like, I've had this argument many times. Yeah.
Was there, was there like one big thing that sort of helped them scale?
I mean, I made them way better at sales. I know. I redid their whole sales process and I read it all. We read it all. Their marketing. Yeah. Who was that? What's that? Who.
Who was that? Like the.
I don't know, another name. You're gonna go on Facebook and have a look at the ads account. Exactly what you're doing. I have a rev show. You think I'm letting you take my ads? You give me a rev show, I'll do it for you too. All right, all right. GT10 was that. I'm serious though, dude. Do it that way. It'll work. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for that. GT10. Yeah. Hey man, is there a non GT10 that you can get? Can you get like an RS10?
Yeah, it pronounced. It's pronounced as ton, so. But it's all good. You can call me gt. So. So I am the sales lead, you know, for porn addiction recovery coaching program.
Yeah.
So.
Huh. It's a good thing my hair is here.
Yeah, yeah, I'll message you.
Yeah.
Anyway, I think we. I think we what? One of those most challenging.
How do you advertise? Huh? How do you advertise?
Oh yeah. So we have podcasts, YouTube, lots of content. Also organic content.
Right? You can't save porn, can you?
We can save porn.
We do.
We do save porn.
Yeah. So I Thought. I thought it censored. The ads got censored automatically.
Yeah, some of them. They're still. The marketing team is still fixing that, honestly.
Yeah.
But anyway, I think the. My question on the sales team side, while the marketing is still fixing the targeting, we do have a lot of unqualified leads.
Right.
You know, in terms of financial qualifications, how much is it is on the lower end is 4, 500 for three months, 75 for 12. And then we have like another program that is like with one on one with the, you know, with the founder, you know, with the owner. That's 9525k.
What interesting sales conversation.
That must be 25k to stop jerking it, guys.
Yeah, yeah, we do. We do have that offer, so.
We do. We do. I think.
How high is this? 40K. So.
Holy mackerel.
Yeah. Your life must be in ruins if you're willing to spend 40. Yeah. For real, though, like, that must be.
No, no. Yeah, it is.
It's a very big problem.
It is a serious problem because some. Some people, they get into like, you know, other stuff. Right. You know, like, fucking with people that they're not really naturally interested in. So anyway, we have a very unique, you know, offer because of how unique it is and niche it is. And there's a lot of shame involved in the conversation. And because of that, a lot of our leads are more like very avoidant, emotionally avoidant. They don't want to talk about it, and they goes a lot. So a lot of our more qualified leads, we can get them out. We have a challenge of, like, getting them on. I think the only one that we're testing right now is personalized boom video just to talk to them. And we're also having like, very inefficiency in terms of filtering out in terms of organization of leads. You know, right now, in terms of organization of leads, you know, right now we have three. Three closers. One sell by chat setter and one alcohol setting.
Yeah, I mean, like, you're gonna have to be creative with how you approach things. Like what I would do.
We have three. Three closers. One sell by chat setter and one alcohol setter.
And try. If I was in charge of revenue, there would. Would be very different. Like, it would depend. Like, I would send, like the videos would. The first two seconds would be a porno, right? Like, you wouldn't see anything, but it would be that. Like, that's what I would do. And it would be edited in to be like, if this is what got your attention, then you have to come to the call, right? So, like, you know, like, oh, yeah, you coming. You know, like, that kind of thing. Like, But I would do that very intentionally to show that the only way to interrupt their pattern is through porn. And that's part of the problem. And you've gotta, like, d. Shame it a lot. And you've gotta be like, dude, we know. We don't give a. The whole point is to show up. Like, we don't care. You know what I mean? Like, if you're not showing up because you're so ashamed, and then because you're ashamed, what are you gonna do? Go and hate jerk. Like, this is ridiculous. You know, like, you. You've gotta find a way to cut through to people. I've done, like, programs for alcoholics before. You know what I mean? And it's a very similar thing. They don't talk about it, but you've gotta, like, call it out very, very clearly. Like, did you not come because you're drinking? Are you drunk right now? Yeah. I mean, like, you're gonna have to be creative with how you approach things. Like, what I would do and try if I was in charge of revenue, there would. Would be very different. Like, right, like, what, like, what's happening here? Because, like, aim is the second most powerful emotion behind love. Yeah, Right. It's the most driving force. Love and shame are the two highest driving forces that people can have. Have. And so, you know, but, like, shame is not something you want to use. It would depend. Like, I would send, like, use as a motivator to buy because it will instantly cause regret, you know, but it is something that you can use in order to cause people to act in the short term, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, but also calling up for what it is. So, like, you're going to have to do lots of, I think, sort of quite verbose problem solving with, like, outside of the box kind of thinking and then be willing to test it and have the mechanisms in place to do that. Because there is a way to solve it. It's just like, you know, you're gonna have to try things. I don't think sending personalized loom videos would do anything. The videos would. The first two seconds would be a porno. Right? Like, you wouldn't see anything. I. I think it will have zero effect, as it always does. Right.
A lot of them, they're not open. If they open, you know, then it's good. You know, a couple of them. But we don't have enough Data to even support that.
So. Yeah, but it would be that, like, that's what I would do. And it would be edited in to be like, if this is what got your attention, then you have, you know, I think, yeah, mate, go on a fucking cameo and get a porn star to do the video. That's not a joke. I would 100% try that. Okay. Get fucking Riley Reed to do your show up sequence. That's sauce, right? Because like you're, you're leaning into the problem to find the solution, right? It's like, hey, come to the bar for a drink. This is where the interval comes to the call, right? So like, you know, like, oh yeah, you coming. You know, like.
Okay, so when you say the two seconds thing, right, where will you put that? Is it in a short sequence? Essentially?
Yeah. Like I would have a show sequence with cameo and I would get porn stars to do it. Yeah, like, I would, I would for sure do that because like you're, you're showing that this is so important to you. This is the only way we can communicate to get you to do something. Okay, right, that's what I would try. Like that.
Okay, we, we didn't try to act.
That kind of thing. Like, but I would do that very intentionally to show that the only porn.
Star we did try, like someone, you know, a woman, you know, a lady.
That would be like a well known porn star. Got it.
Okay.
Like instantly recognizable point, sir, with the starting flip. A way to interrupt their pattern is through porn. And that's part of the problem. And you've gotta like pornhub d shame it a lot. And you've gotta be like, dude, we know, we don't give a. The whole point is to show up. Like, we don't care. You know what I mean? Like, if you're not showing up because you're so ashamed and then because you're ashamed, what are you gonna do? Go and fucking hate jerk. Like, this is ridiculous. You know, like you, you've gotta find a way to cut through to people. I've done like programs for alcoholics before. You know what I mean? And it's a very similar thing. They don't want to talk. Would be a massive pattern interrupt. Yeah, so I'm just thinking of ways about it, but you've gotta like call it out very, very clearly. Like, did you not come because you're drinking? Are you drunk right now? Right, like, what, like what's happening here? Because like, aim is the second most powerful emotion behind love. Yeah, right. It's the most Driving force. Love and shame are the two highest driving forces that people can have. And so, you know, but like, shame is not something you want to use as a motivator to buy because it will instantly cause regret, you know, but it is something that you can use in order to cause people to act. In the short term, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, but also calling it up for what it is. So like, you're going to have to do lots of, I think sort of quite verbose problem solving with like outside of the box kind of thinking and then be willing to test it and have the mechanisms in place to do that. Because there is a way to solve it. It's just like, you know, you're gonna have to try things. I don't think sending personalized loom videos would do anything. I, I think it will have zero effect, as it always does. Right.
A lot of them, they're not open. If they open, you know, then it's good. You know, a couple of them. But we don't have enough data to even support that.
So, yeah, you know, I think, yeah, mate, go on a cameo and get a porn star to do the video. That's not a joke. I would 100% try that. Okay. Get fucking Riley Reed to do your show up sequence. That sauce, right? Because like you're, you're leaning into the problem to find the solution, right? It's like, hey, come to the bar for a drink. This is where the intervention is happening. Okay.
So when you say the two seconds thing, right, where will you put that? Is it in the show of sequence? Essentially?
Yeah. Like I would have a show sequence with cameo and I would get porn stars to do it. Yeah, Like I would, I would for sure do that because like you're, you're showing that this is so important to you. This is the only way we can communicate to get you to do something. Okay. Right, that's what I would try. Like that.
Okay, we, we didn't try an actual porn star. We did try like someone, you know, a woman, you know, a lady.
That would be like a well known porn star. Got it. Okay. Like instantly recognizable porn stars with the.
Starting clip of pornhub.
Like, would be a massive pattern interrupt.
Yeah.
So I'm just thinking of ways to try and like if the priest people are addicted to that, then you can use that addiction as ways to get their attention and then show that we had to use their addiction to get their attention. That's why they need the thing. So you can layer in Lots of meaning behind it. And then it actually makes sense. It's not just you fucking, you know. You know, that makes sense. That's what comes up in my head. And then the conversations themselves I think would be quite interesting because like, you've really got to establish the, the enormous impact it's having on day to day life. Yeah. And like money, time, energy, effort, you know, all that kind of stuff. I think that you would probably do be able to see it, but I think like doing a screen share, looking at people's like, show me your browser, motherfucker. Like, let's do this. You know, I think that would be a really effective tool. You know, again, use shame and be like, all right, you want to change this? You want to make a change? Sweet. All right, dude. Like, let's take your life back. You know? And then it's like, you know, you have to make them by now. You have to, you have to absolutely smash, decimate. There is no follow up.
So pretty much just like drug addict.
Yeah. Well, you know what, Let me just go think this over. Right. Addiction is addiction. Like, they can't. They are chemically wired to keep doing it. And you have to have a. Like, there has to be a. You can't go and think about it. It's not an option. And you shouldn't allow it for like, for their sake. You should be like, man, I'm really sorry, but we don't allow that. The reason being is because it is antithetical to everything that we are as a business is to allow you to continue the behavior. And if you go away and think about it, you're just going to think about all the reasons why you're justified in doing what you're currently doing, because that's what you've been doing and what you're going to continue to do. So we are here to be your inflection point. You either decide or you don't. I don't judge you either way. But when you go to bed tonight, you either. Am I going towards or away. You got to choose red pill, blue pill. Because it's the only way you're gonna sound. And it's true. They gotta do it. They gotta figure it out. Yeah. Sometimes touch the iron and know it's hot. You know what I mean?
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
And what, what are the good standards in terms of like, for outbound setters, in terms of dialing per day?
It's, it's just, it's impossible to say. I would just use hours.
What's a good talk Time for them or what do you mean by hours?
It's impossible to say because there's too many variables involved. And like you're looking at KPIs that can be tricked. Talk time. I'll just send blank voicemails and play Xbox. Right.
So when you say hours, what do you mean by hours?
Like, you know, the, the shorthand on the clock. How many of those tick by Right where they're actually working? Right. That's the key. Right. In dialer, they get tracked. Right. So like we have a log of everything they've done for the day and it's like they have to log in there. Are their activities tracked and so you can see how many hours a day they work. Okay, so like setters work for two hours. Like it's not super productive. Especially they're getting paid a base and they're expected to be working eight. I have a theory that most setters have two to three jobs.
Well, my setter, it's. She's getting paid hourly, so.
Yeah, but how do you track her hours?
We, we track our hours like with a screen share, you know, like the. Those.
Okay. Yeah, yeah.
So like I, I know she's working, but I just want to make like.
99 of businesses don't have that.
Oh, okay.
A really good one is time. Camp.
Time, Cam.
Four hours. Talk time. You can't use talk time again. I can fake it.
Yeah, yeah, we just. We just provide all aware for her, you know, to call.
So is she okay? Huh? Is she okay?
Yeah, I mean she. When she's performing, her mind is good, you know, but right now she's. She's unfortunately going through some personal stuff, so I'm trying to see if I can get her back.
I'd be going through personal stuff as well. That's a dog at the software. Yeah, it really is though. That's the worst one. Yeah.
Well, no, she.
She.
She lost. Lost her mom recently, so.
That's unfortunate, but.
It is unfortunate.
Yeah.
Why, why.
Why are you rubbing her nose in it by making her use that piece of shit? If I was on a call with my team, I would have said something much worse, but you know. All right, next one said Saeed. Yes.
I actually usually go by Seth in English, so you nailed it. But yeah, it's actually Brown said so, but yeah, I used to go with Seth. So I am a setter. You were shitting on setters over there, so I think I do that because you deserve. Yeah, yeah. But I have a 50% show rate right now as a Setter, what do you think? It's a good show rate. And then what would you recommend to actually get it higher?
Like again, it depends. Yeah, but like in the 60s I think is the sort of 65 is like the minimum I would say for like scale. Okay. I would have a look and I would have a look at the easy ways to bring it up. Like if you have a look at your show rate per day, per hour and then just find the common thread between like certain days and certain hours that are just not worth setting people and then you just block them off and then probably.
Are there any that you noticed?
Well again it's like you're one. Am I talking your time zone or their time zone? Right. So you have to use your time zone because that's the common thread, right? You know, I mean that's the thing that you can measure off and then it's going to be offer dependent. If I'm selling women into fitness and I, and I'm selling mums and I booked them in at 3pm what's the chances of them picking up the goddamn phone? It's school pickup time, right? So now they will have every intention of showing up and they will go oh yeah, that's duplicate time, but I'll get mom to cover. Then they forget and then they know. So. And you call them a right? When in reality you just never should have done that. Right. And so it's like look for patterns and reasons of why you would not like make a change, right? And then try and wheeze it through. Because like a lot of the times like it's like people are booking people in it. Like ridiculous times, you know, okay, like three, four o' clock in the afternoon and you're dealing with, or like you know, you're dealing with teachers and you're booking them in at 2. It's like.
Right?
Yeah, they're gonna come. You know, people don't think about it though because they're idiots.
Besides that though, I guess in the process that's helpful and I, I should look into that because I never even.
Thought about it to like tangibly analyze and make one specific decision. Like don't do what you're about to do. Okay. You're looking for skill ways to increase thing that you might be able to do with process. So why would you make a skill change if it's not required? What if you have a 75 show rate with the exact way that you're doing it but you're just good at booking people in at retard times. What if. And then you go and make a change based off. But Matt said, right? Yeah. And I told you to do something stupid. 50. 50, right. So now you never know what happened. Or let's say that I tell you to do a rock star change, right? And you make a change to the booking, but you made the wrong one and now you stay exactly where you are. What Matt said didn't work. And changing that didn't work. So I'll never do them again. But in reality, my change was awesome and your change sucked. Right? Like how? Like how do you know? Right? One thing. One thing. You now have one thing you can look at and change and see if that makes a tangible outcome. And if you're asking me to give you two things, I answer no.
Okay, it's good. Now if I could ask them a follow up question. No, regarding the shows. Okay, is what if I get shows? Because last month I got, for example, 45 shows and I got five of them that actually closed. Like as a setter, what would you say? Like, what's something that I could change? Like if there is. Or like what would you actually say that I could change?
Well, let's keep the variables the same and just try and get more of them to show. Okay. Because that's more sales straight away. Yeah, right. Once you've figured out more shows, then you can figure out better shows. Now if the sales guys you're sending them to are dog is what it is, bro. Okay, so more is better first. You got to do more first because the way to. You can't control that people close. You can only send people who are more likely to close. Yeah. What does that mean? That means higher levels of filtering, which means less. Yeah. Okay, so there are ramifications to all of your decisions. So if you figure out how to do more, then you can figure out how to filter and you can go back, you can go to 65, then go back to 45. Right. But 45 better ones, and now more of them are showing up because of the better show rate and more of them are closing. Then you figure out how to keep that quality and increase the volume. If you try and do everything at once, you will achieve absolutely nothing. This is why people do not get better. They refuse to do it one at a time. You know, like, okay, if you try and do everything at once, mate, you'll never learn a thing. All right, thanks for that.
I'll apply that.
So with, with that in mind, just to piggyback off of that, when it comes to the Qualifications and how much do you filtering? Is there like a sweet spot that you've seen when it comes to like a lower ticket type of like thousand fifteen hundred dollar offer. If the setter should be qualifying based on their, you know, is it just like revenues and all the qualifying things or is it actually getting problems and going a little bit deeper for the, for the closer? Like should they damn near be almost getting the prospect maybe ready to potentially buy or is it like you know, just hey here this qualifications and move them over here. Like is where is that middle ground sweet spot and if it is there a sweet spot or is it just per kind of industry, per type of offer that you have?
Depends. Depends is the answer. It's an opportunity to quality and quantity.
Just keep testing until you find that like good little sweet spot.
But at all times. Sometimes they're full of shit, sometimes they're full of gold, but they should be full. I'd rather have a 1% chance of closing somebody than a hundred percent chance of closing nobody. So the answer is that's a variable figure that changes day to day, week to meet, month to month based on the opportunities available. If you have high lead flow and 10, if you have five reps and an insane lead flow, they're going to be lay downs because you filter everybody out because of time. Your, your restriction is time. You only have a certain amount of time on a diary. You can't make more of that unless you get more people, right? But let's just say the people are fixed. You have a hundred sales slots a week, right? If you have 10,000 people trying to get the hundred, you filter them out to 100 lay downs. Does that make sense? Does that make good? No, it doesn't. It makes them rich. It doesn't make them good. If you have 100 slots available and 100 people trying to get those slots, you are booking 100% of all available leads in. Your close rate will be dog shit. But you have opportunity. So there is no sweet spot because.
That answers my question perfectly. That's. That gives me good.
Yeah, your lead flow will move and shift, but also your sales team will move and shift based on availability, based on people, based off new people, based off people leaving. You know, I mean so there's a, there's a constant. And ever never finishing like your application form is never done because the question should change based on how many people you want to flow through. Your setters should let a certain amount of people through. But like if you have a rule of like you let 50 of people through no matter what. But you have 10, 000 people vying for a hundred spots. That doesn't make any sense. And then, but if you have 100 people for 100 spots, you know, half through, you're yourself as well. So like, that's where sales management is. Like, well, like, where are we at? Are we full? Are we not? And like, what are the levers that we pull and change in order to maximize availability and opportunity while still maximizing quality? That doesn't mean your quality is always good, but it means you're maximizing it and you're understand this. And you should be talking to them about it because like, if you're gonna flood them with shit, you should tell them because then they won't pretend like they're in a mindset. Fucking sad. That's why I'm not closing, right? Or I can be hungover and like, my best friend just died. I'll still close the deal just fine. Like it, it's. It, like it's ridiculous. It's just a job, right? You know, and so like, it just, it is what it is. But people get into slumps, right, because they're looking at things on very short time horizons and not understanding environmental factors. Okay, if your no show is 80% on the four on the 1st to the 8th of July in the US and you make a change, you're a retard. Because it's July 4th, you idiot. Everyone's on vacation. What are you doing? Who cares? Like just take the week off, right? If it's coming up to a presidential election and your ad cost skyrockets and you shoot new creative to fix it, you're an idiot. Kamala Harris just spent $100 billion on ads. You think you can compete? Like, you know, you don't. Like, it's environmental, like inevitability. And that outcome is so obvious. So it's like making changes to fix that is ridiculous, you know, because it's going to normalize.
Thank you so much for that. That actually helps. Like a lot more process oriented than.
Kind of like thinking internally. Yeah, I got four minutes here.
If you're selling cyber, right, and if the problem you get is just modernist, repetitive, would you funnel that into money? Because it's very easy to build a gap.
Just a word that. What do you, what do you mean?
Like, if you're selling people like career changers, like, into that, and if the problem you get is just, you know, monotonous, it's repetitive, would you take that or would you use two Truths and try and get them into money.
Oh, okay. I see what you're asking. Yeah.
Because, like, with that, if I don't do that, it's even the ideal gap questions. It's very hard to put something tangible in place because there's no numbers attached to it.
Yeah, Yeah, I suppose. Unless they're gonna kill themselves because of it. Right. So I guess I would just probably extrapolate on what does that mean? And, like, you know, like. Okay, well, yeah, I guess two truths is probably the best way to handle that. But it sounds like that's, like, annoying. But is that really enough to sort of change? Like, what would you change besides the fact that it's monotonous? Because every job becomes that, right? Yeah. Even if you're, you know, fucking supermodels, like, at some stage, it becomes bananas. Right. That many times. And so, like, that's an inevitability. But what would you change about that, about your job, if you could? Besides that. And I think that then you don't have to funnel into money, though. I think funnel into money is, like, that's a bit of a trap, because then you're. They might not be focused on that. So let them do what they're focused on. Don't go like, okay, what about the money, though? You know what I mean? If you're getting nothing out of them, then you can funnel them into that to try and shortcut the process. But you're better off allowing them to tell you their true problems and extrapolating off that instead of funneling them into the problem that you want them to have. Yeah, yeah.
Because then I'm assuming everyone has a money issue.
Yeah, yeah. That's just because you're Indian. You know, me and my hair go way back, guys. It's okay. Yeah.
I'm going to disappoint you next week.
You do. You do every week, man. That's okay. Disappointment from the moment I met you. All right, Last one is BJ because I got to go. We already. I went 15 minutes over, just so you know.
Yeah, thanks for that, Matt. Good to see you keeping the stereotypes. So, basically, what are your thoughts on AI call dialer people? Like, have you heard of assistable? Or are you familiar with call affluent?
I mean, I've, like, I haven't heard of those ones in particular, but, like, my thoughts are, you know, those sort of be fairly heavily regulated, you know.
So you would never consider bringing them into dialer, like, even if you had, like, a bunch of people training them up and doing prompt engineering and making agentic processes.
I mean you're like the compliance. It's not that I wouldn't. Our system in particular is very, very compliant driven and it's also got hardware checks like for which is the thing. And like spoofing hardware is very difficult. Right. So it wouldn't work. We have the ability to create them internally but bringing external ones in, they'd have to have access to too much of the architecture so it wouldn't make any sense. But they're also not hard to build. I could build one in a week. But they're very simple. Like they're just an LLM that's answering questions. I mean some of them are really good. It doesn't mean they're not good. But from a compliance and regulatory standpoint they will not last long. And I think it will not replace sales or replace cs. It will replace like so inbound IVR and CS will be like very, very effective I think for that. Because AI has been doing CS for a while now. But in terms of like sales like grandma gets scammed, it gets banned. Right. So and it's already like it's considered a robo dial. So no one that I've seen has the ability to effectively call. And also like you can't like power dialing and auto dialing is very tricky and especially multiline dialing. Like you look at what happened to Air AI. I mean fuck me mate, like they are going to get slapped.
How many lawsuits do you think? Error AI because I know about them and it's crazy.
There are under the water Jeremy.
Yeah, they're in hot water at the moment. Air AI FTC is cracking down. So you don't think like they'll pass like TCPA or gdpr whatever the regulatory things like that.
It has to be a human initiated dialogue. The moment the human is not initiating the dial it's. It's automatically in a level in dialer they get tracked. Right. So like we have a log of everything they've done for the day and it's like they have to log in there. Are their activities tracked and so you can see how many hours a day they work. Okay so like setters work for two hours. Like it's not super productive. Especially they're getting paid a base and they're expected to be working 8. I have a theory that most setters have 2 to 3 jobs.
Well my setter, it's, she's getting paid hourly so.
Yeah, but how do you track her hours?
We, we track our hours like with a screen share you know, like the. Those.
Okay, yeah, yeah.
So, like, I. I know she's working, but I just want to make like.
99 of businesses don't have that.
Oh, okay.
A really good one is time. Camp.
Time cam, dude.
Four hours talk time for legislation where it's very difficult to pull off. All right, I gotta go there, guys. Peace. All right, man.
Thank you so much.
Yeah.
Do you guys know if he has a chat or anything? He has any chat for the program or anything? Or is it literally just calls.
Chat.
Like a chat feature?
Like this, like a group thing where there's, like, other people.
I mean, we need it. This would be a sick community, man.
That's what I'm saying. I've been in this for, like, over now, a month. I just bought it just to see the course and I didn't even realize these calls, I just randomly like, what the is this came on my.
Oh, you can't use talktime again. I can fake it.
Yeah, yeah. We just. We just provide all the way for her, you know, to call.
So. Is she okay? Huh? Is she okay?
Yeah, I mean, she. When she's performing, her mind is good, you know, but right now she's. She's unfortunately going through some personal stuff, so I'm trying to see if I can get her back.
I'd be going through personal stuff as well. That's a dope of a software. Yeah, it really is, though. That's the way.
Whoa, that's cool.
That's a good idea.
Pablo.
Pablo, create a. We'll create a group chat and then we won't invite Matt and we'll make him so jealous.
Can someone answer?
What's good?
Dan, I. How did you get notification of this event? Because I literally accidentally stumbled on. I know, but I. I got an email, like, as it was starting. I didn't respond.
Yeah, well, no, she.
She.
She lost. Lost her mom recently, so.
That's unfortunate, but.
It is unfortunate.
Yeah. Why. Why are you rubbing another. By making her use that piece of. If I was on a call with my team, I would have said something much worse, but, you know. All right, next one said save. I get any sort of advance notice and just happen to catch it.
You gotta kind of go through the YouTube. I'm through. Like, when you go to the Notion and you go to that type of stuff, it puts like, membership posts out on the YouTube. If you go to the subscription you have. Yeah.
You'll be able to single post.
Okay, I'll look again.
I didn't. It's really different.
It's really, it's honestly really shitty. There's not even a word for that. It's just ran pretty okay. But there's a lot of value in here. It's just run. Yeah, really bad. I think the way that it was done and whatever is just like whatever. But yeah, it's great value. It's amazing value for the price. It's like I, I've gone through so much consulting and paid so much money and just the level of like, you know, information that you can get here is incredible.
So I was wondering.
Well, I gotta say, ladies and gentlemen, I've known Matt since 2020. I was one of the very first sales sniper people and I've seen pretty much him combine with Jeremy and take a six figure business into multiple eight figures. And what you're getting here right now for the price is. It's ridiculous.
It's.
I don't even know how it's possible. I FaceTime my, my partner while I was on this call. I'm like, look at, look, I sent, I show him the video. He's like, dude, this ridiculous.
I know Matt. And Matt's doing this because he's bored. Like he's genuinely.
I can see it. I can see it.
He's got a wife. He's got the white picket fence with the, the hot wife and making all these millions of money. And now he's just like, what the fuck do I do with my time now? And he's like, oh, why don't we just like see if I can add some value to the marketplace and then beat everyone else who's charging more money than him. Like he gets a, he gets kind of a pleasure out of like undercutting people. That's just who he is.
It's nice because also the level of people that are following him are also like almost very qualified. So the level of people that you'll get here is a lot better than other places that you'll get, which is nice.
Yeah.
And obviously you're learning from literally a guy who would charge five grand an hour to consult with him. Like, not even a joke. Like you literally have access to a guy who made a hundred thousand dollars in sales commissions and built a multiple millions a month sales consulting agency from nothing.
So.
Yeah, I know. Crazy.
I.
When I first started, I don't think.
People really understand the gravity of Matt Ryder.
I, I really want it. I'm sold on him. I'm sold on the value. It just doesn't do me any good if I can't find these things. Until 15 minutes before they close. I'm sold on the value.
You're absolutely right.
It's a steal.
And just go through the notion, go through the Web, the, the YouTube updates that he does like, that's how I found this. I kind of just like would casually go through it sometimes because I was waiting for something. There was a couple of them that he did beforehand that I think I missed.
But everyone, everyone drop their number in the, the chat. I'll create a group chat and I'll.
That'd be dope. Yeah, please. So that's my, that's my plus one up there. The 9491. Anybody in California, feel free to reach out.
Don't jump off just yet. If you want to be a part of this group.
Add me first. They got reservations to make.
Yeah, let me just copy paste it and then that way everyone can jump off.
Likewise. But if anybody is also in the lead generation Facebook ad agency type space, we are doing over around 100 grand a month, looking to potentially, you know, run some ideas between people and processes. We just spent a shit ton on back end consultancy to potentially sell the business soon, so. Same ones Joel Kaplan and all those other people use.
So.
But anyways, if anybody's in that niche or in that general field, please feel free to reach out.
I'm.
I'm more than happy to go through and see what we can come up with together. It's the whole point of this.
So Pablo's number, Nelson's William J. Chris Westcott's Rachel, Dan, and that's it. Anyone else, feel free to drop your number. Speak now, forever hold your peace.
These calls are once a week or once a month.
Yeah, just a month.
Right.
You book in through his calendar and then just first come, first serve.
Interesting.
There's not like there's a cap on people to join this or.
I don't think there's a cap, but I'm pretty sure he has one in like Australian time zone.
Oh, I know. Yeah, it's like he sends it out. If you come up, you come. If you don't like, it's not like there's one for each. Like it's unaccommodating in a sense. But anyways. Okay, you got mine one, the 949 for William Jay.
Yeah, I just, I just print screened it and I'll. I'll start adding everyone now.
Pleasure to meet everybody. I'm excited to talk to you guys. All you guys. Take it easy, take it easy.
Thanks guys.
Stay blessed, guys.
Yeah.
Yes. I actually Usually go by Seth in English, so you nailed it. But yeah, it's actually pronounced Saeed, so. But yeah, I used to go with Seth. So I am a set.
There.
You were on sellers over there. So I think I do that because. Yeah, but I have a 50 show rate right now as a setter. What do you think? It's a good show rate. And then what would you recommend to actually get it higher?
Like again it depends. Yeah, but like in the 60s I think is the sort of 65 is like the minimum I would say for like scale. Okay. I would have a look and I would have a look at the easy ways to bring it up. Like if you have a look at your show rate per day, per hour and then just find the common thread between like certain days and certain hours that are just not worth setting people and then you just block them off.
Are there any that you noticed?
Well again it's like your one am I talking your time zone or their time zone? Right. So you have to use your time zone because that's the common thread. Right. You know what I mean? That's the thing that you can measure off and then it's going to be offer dependent. If I'm selling women into fitness and I, and I'm selling mums and I booked them in at 3pm what's the chances of them picking up the goddamn phone? It's school pickup time, right? So now they will have every intention of showing up and they will go oh yeah, that's jubilee up time. But I'll get mom to cover. Then they forget and then they know. So. And you call them a right. When in reality you just never should have done that. Right. And so it's like look for patterns and reasons of why you would not like make a change, right? And then try and wheeze it through. Because like a lot of the times like it's like people are booking people in it. Like ridiculous times, you know, okay, like three, four o' clock in the afternoon and you're dealing with. Or like, you know, you're dealing with teachers and you're booking them in at two, it's like right, yeah, they're gonna come. You know, people don't think about it though because they're idiots.
Besides that though, I guess in the process that's helpful and I, I should look into that because I never even.
Thought about it to like tangibly analyze and make one specific decision. Like don't do what you're about to do. Okay. You're looking for skill, ways to increase thing that you might be able to do with process. So why would you make a skill change if it's not required? What if you have a 75% show rate with the exact way that you're doing it, but you're just good at booking people in at retard times? What if. And then you go and make a change based off. But Matt said, right? Yeah. And I told you to do something stupid. 50. 50. Right. So now you never know what.
