Back of the Room Strategies - CIFC Episode 157

Welcome back to Coffees for Closes. It's Matt and Pat. We're talking about a preeminent trip that you're going on.

Yeah.

Jim Con. Jim Con, Ex special forces sniper turned entrepreneur. I've scaled numerous businesses to eight figures. My name is Matt Rider. This is my podcast and I'm telling you to put that coffee down back.

Yeah.

Jim Con, what's going on?

So we got asked to come in and help out with Gym Launch. So just because like, you know, so we got into come and do a sales and marketing audit because they were just having some troubles with sales and marketing. So we just did an audit and we found like I would say I wrote an eight page document, single spaced, ten font.

Okay.

On all the things that I would change.

Okay.

So then they asked us to implement some of those changes.

So take a step back. What is Gym Launch?

Gym Launch is. It's Alex Hormozy's initial business, the one that he kind of built up and then sold 66% of whatever hell he sold. And sort of it's. They provide sales and marketing, well, marketing services for gyms. But then they have a couple other verticals of like, they have like an agency, it does marketing for gyms and they have a supplement line which you can put into your gym and then sell. Right. So they've got the, they got the business model sorted. But what's really interesting is that like a lot of their sales and marketing just hadn't, in my opinion, like evolved over the years because the offer's so good. And so it was a really good insight into like, oh, this is what happens when like the business's core offering is so incredible that like, you don't really need to evolve. But then it's like a compounding effect of not evolving and not looking at things because you're getting the outcome. But like the level of inefficiency along the way was pretty incredible. And so going in there and then going like, well, like, you know, if this were my business, these are, this is how I would do it. And then laying it out like we, we, we reduce their lead cost by 10 times.

Okay.

In a day.

Yeah, right.

It was like, oh, just change that.

Okay.

And they did it. And it went from 200 bucks for a phone number to 20.

Right.

You know, and it, but it's like, but they've been paying 200 bucks for phone number for years.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, just because it works. Like they get the outcome.

Yeah.

They brand awareness. They've obviously got her mosi. They've got Kale, who's a really good on camera CEO and they've just got tons and tons of brand awareness. And then when they were bought by the private equity, they got tons of like, you know, I, I haven't nitty gritty talk to them about it, but what they always do is they put tons of debt in the business because like the capitalized rate of return is higher than the, the interest rate on the debt. So they just put tons of debt into a business and that's. And they grow it quickly with the debt.

So, so, so what is Jim Con?

GymCon is their first event and they hired a marketing company to do it and it's a bit lazy.

Okay.

So like our job was to increase the revenue.

Right.

Of the whole business. And I was like, well that seems like an easy way to get a few wins. Let's just have a look. And so we just went through and ordered like ah. So like we were coming through and we're sort of again just dramatically changing. Well, not dramatically, but we're just. Because it's so close, we can't do any huge changes. But what we can do is we can just fix and plug all the holes. Yeah.

So last week we were talking about the challenge. This is something equivalent for them, right?

Yeah. It's a big in person event.

Okay.

And so on the back end of it, this will come out or whatever. This will come out probably the day of the pitch. It's fine. So they're going to get everyone there and then do a big pitch, right. For their gym con, for their gym launch services, which will probably go really well. But then there's a whole like back of the room strategy that has to be there. And nobody at gym launch had ever done a back of the room strategy. I've done them before.

So I was like, so what is a back of the room strategy? Explain that to me because I don't, I don't know.

So they come on, pitch on stage. Right. Do the whole Tony Robbins, get everyone excited.

Yeah.

And then do a big pitch and then from there you've got to facilitate those sales. It's not like you can just like, you know, have false machines come down from the ceiling and everyone can just tap. Although that would be pretty dope. Right. When scan this QR code. So yes, then you've got to have a way to facilitate the sales. Right. Because you got to keep like the momentum going. So there's a way in which you have to do it because you've got to have A you've got to event sales are about working with human behavior and making everyone move towards the sale and then having people drop off along the way. But they have to drop off. But they have to be uncomfortable to drop off.

Yeah, Right.

So you got to create a wave of people doing stuff. And then everyone just wants to do the cheap thing. And then so you got to get everyone to the back of the room where they can buy. Now, half of those people have no intention of buying, but that's not important.

They're just caught up in there.

They're caught up in it, but the fact that they're there makes the people who are 50, 50 want to do it regardless because of all the people who want to do it because of all the people that are there. Right. So you got to create like a wave of action that gets people from a seating position to a standing position to in the aisles at the back of the room to then. And then you've got obviously people to handle concerns. You've got basically like one of the things I got them to do is like they buy a bottle by 25 bottles of champagne first. 25 people to buy. Boom. Bottle of champagne. That creates more excitement. Like fuck. People are buying because you don't know because they're just filling out paperwork. So now you've got a signifier that people are buying and doing and taking the action and doing all the salesy stuff.

Right.

And then from there you got to have people like handling objections for the people who have objections. And then you got to have people handling questions. People just have questions. And then for the people who need even in more depth conversation than just like a little bit of a schlepping around or whatever, they. You have to have an area for them too. So like, that's a logistical thing that has to be set up. And then people have to be like taught what to do and where. And there has to be a coordinator. And there wasn't going to be one.

Right. Okay.

So I identified that and I was like, well, just fly me out and I'll run it.

Okay, so it's your guys that are going to be doing this?

No, it's all there guys.

It's just you going or is Marco going?

No, it's just me. So. But they have their own guys going, so. Right, I'll just.

So they've got their own sales guys. You can do any training with those guys or.

So I'm starting the training because I've got like a. I've got like a sequence that I have to do. So basically everyone who's going to gym Con, like all the participants and the clients that are going to go, I'm divvying them up between all the sales people.

Right.

And then so they're going to make contact this week and then so we'll start the selling this week.

Okay.

And then like we'll have some stuff for them on day one where if they find us, we'll give them stuff.

Okay.

Right. So I've created a really basic sales script, right. For gyms. I've done that before. Right. I've got them. So just get that branded up as like gym launch or whatever. And then from there like we'll give them out like a. Create a QR code. Hey, scan the QR code, it downloads it onto your phone. And then like I'll be wearing a red hat or whatever. So it's like, hey, find the guy with the red hat, really good looking, right? Find him. Obviously it's me, towards me. But everyone will have like a series of people. So I might have 50 people, the other guys might have 100 each or whatever.

Okay.

And then so they've got to come.

To you if they want this free thing. Do they know what it is before they get there?

Yeah, I'll tell them it's a sales script, you know, so they're going to.

Come to you and they'll be like, hey, I think you're my guy.

Yeah.

Can I have the sales script?

Yes.

And you'll go, yes. Wait, scan this QR code.

Sweet.

They can download.

What kind of gym do you run? How long you've been doing it? Like what are you doing at the moment to get. Acquire clients? Do you like what you do to acquire clients? Suite, you know, what would you do better if you could? What do you want to learn from here today? Stuff like that. And then like make sure like also I'll take them through. The whole point is I want to get everyone through over like a 36 hour period through to like solution and consequence sort of thing real quickly. But we just want to prime them.

Yeah.

To like under, like to really start problem based thinking. And then from there like the pitch should take care of the actual, like, oh, here's a solution.

Okay.

You know, and I've helped write the pitch.

Okay.

So like it should line up, you know what I mean? No matter where that as long as they've had an initial contact, it'll make it a lot easier. But so yeah, and then from there like we should prime people, be able to kind of. And there's like, two networking events before it. So I'm going to be in there just not concealing everybody.

Yeah, yeah.

And so you. You'll be trying to make sales prior to the pitch.

I will. If someone wants to.

Yeah.

I'll. I'll make this out, because you might as well.

Yeah, yeah.

Never going to say no to the sale. And then from there, prime everybody up. And then I'll be at the pitch as well. And then helping move everybody along, getting people just corralling them. It's like you just got to be the one who's like, okay, being the most awkward guy in the room.

Yeah.

You know, like, if you embrace that, then you'll do.

Well, explain that a bit better. Like, what do you mean by that? What's the sort of things that you'll have to do?

Like, if people don't stand up, I'll whisper in their ear, be like, what's wrong?

Okay, Don't.

Don't you want. Don't you want to make more money? You know what I mean? Like, just full. Like, you have to be verbose about it, but, like, in a way where not everybody, you know, you have to kind of pick your lanes a little bit and kind of shark everyone. And then from there, just kind of like, push everyone. I remember the last event was at me and Anthony literally pushing people into the back. Towards the back. Like, I just got in the. I got in the aisles and just started, like, funneling everyone towards the back.

Okay.

Because, like, that's what I needed.

Yeah.

So I need the max amount of people in that area. So there's scragglers. I just have my arms wide and start walking down the aisle and. And they're just gonna do what I need them to do. You know what I mean? So it's just a little bit awkward, but who cares? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember I was at a. I was at, like, a charity event a while ago, and they had, like. It was terrible. It was a really good charity, and it was for helping out, like, displaced women in Afghan. I was like, oh, that's a great charity. Especially at the moment.

Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, always. But especially at the moment. And they had the. All the volunteers going around, and what they did is really clever. They had, like, a different colored balloon signified how much you donated. Right. Which is really clever. And then they had false machines. You just go and tap at a tap.

Right? Yeah.

But they were just, like, so passive, and they're like, would you. Would you like to make a Donation. I was like, give me the balloons.

Yeah, like that.

And I just went to, like every table.

Yeah.

And just was like, hey, raise your hand if you're against the abuse of women. And I just wait there to put your hand. And I go, prove it.

Yeah, yeah.

And I go, who's the biggest dick at the table? Who's going to donate the most? That's a nice AP, sir. Would you like to donate $5,000?

Yeah, like that.

And they're like, oh. And I was like, $150,000. Watch. Not bad. You must be doing all right. Must be doing all right. Let's see how much we could put that to good use.

Yeah.

I just fucking made everybody donate because it was super awkward and they all hated it.

Yeah, yeah.

But like, the guy came up to me afterwards, he's like, fucking, thank you for doing that. I was like, next time you do this, just tell me. All five guys in here, we'll. We'll pull five million bucks.

Yeah.

So there's interesting science behind that. Have you ever heard of Robert Topolski? So he's a neuroscientist. He has. Really. And she's got a book called Behave. He is sort of launched to fame. He did this study on a baboon troop over 30 years. It was really interesting. So like, baboon troops, the way it works is like when you're a fighting age male, you get kicked out of the troop and you have to go to a different one. Exactly. Kind of as we were discussing.

Yeah.

And when you turn up, it's a fight.

Right.

Like, you got to fight your way in. And baboons live in this really dangerous hierarchical society.

Right.

Like where everybody's trying to get to the top and you show any sign of weakness, you're. And like, it's a really strong male driven society. So the troop that he was observing got poisoned. Like a tourist group left meat out and it had like salmonella or something. What happened is all the, like alpha males within the group, they obviously ate the most of it and they died. And it turned out that these baboons. Baboons are not naturally like that. It was social. So it's not like it's hardwired into baboons that they have to be dicks to each other and beat each other in this, like, hierarchy. It turns out it's just the way it's done. And so when all the, like, the guys who fought the hardest and ate the most of this meat, they all died. The rest of them were pretty cooperative and so then. Then they got like the fighting age. Males from other troops would turn up to them and turn up, like, ready to fight. And yeah, they'd be like, hey, we don't do that here. And they were like, oh, thank.

God.

Yeah.

So it turns out it's not inherent to baboons anyway, that's, like the biggest thing of his research. But there's a really good. He did a podcast with human. He's explaining the effects of testosterone. He does a lot on testosterone. He says that testosterone often gets blamed for making people aggressive. And testosterone doesn't make you aggressive. What it does is it increases competitive behaviors. And aggression is often a very powerful competitive behavior. Yeah, but he talks about exactly that at a charity event. If. If you want, like, the higher testosterone, males will out compete each other in giving. Like in the altruism 100. Yeah. And so what I'm curious about is, did you, when you were doing that, did you see, like, it would have been a hard slog for you initially, but then did you, like, started rolling? Yeah.

Once you started going over the gun, like that guy over there, man. Killing it.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? Yeah, he got the gold balloon. Imagine if you did, too.

So did you observe that, like.

Yeah, yeah, it worked. Yeah, it worked really well. It was really awkward at first, and then from there, like, I started getting louder and louder and started kind of making it work. And then I'd get the girls to convince the guys and they had fun with it and you know what I mean? Like, ah, like that. So it was good. It works really well.

Yeah, yeah.

So stage selling with the back of the room sales. You've done a bit of that before. I remember you telling me about the best that you saw one time.

Yeah. It was Aaron Sensoni.

Yeah.

Australia Run us through it. Yeah. So, like, you know, and I sort of told Kale about this because it works really well. And it's funny because I went to an event like, about three or four months later where they didn't do it this way, and it just fell apart. And I would have made two or three sales, like, out of the six or seven hundred they had there. Terrible. No, but Aaron got like, you know, a good chunk of the room to buy and, like, arguably almost an identical offer. Right. To identical people, you know. So the way that Aaron did it is. I can't remember exactly, but it was. It's a series of, like, small. He starts setting it up from the beginning where he gets people to raise their hand a lot. Raise your hand. It's gonna be really interactive. Wanna make sure you get into it, you know? And he gets him to raise their hand all the time throughout the whole thing. So he's like conditioning them to raise their hand because at some stage he needs them to raise their hand, you know. So then he goes, if you. If you want to do. If you want to do xyz, raise your hand. And then everyone raise their hands. And it's like, if your hand is up and stand up, right? And then that's when it begins, you know, because then it's like, well, you condition to. If you're. Well, everyone's like this. And I go, yeah, if your hand is up, stand up. And everyone stands up. Now you've got hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people. Like, it's like 95% of the room are standing, you know, And I was sitting because I had no interest in buying. But, like, just like the feeling of sitting was horrible.

Okay, so you were immediately othered?

Yeah, immediately. And like, I was like, oh, interesting. Yeah, I was like, oh, this is fantastic. Like, I can, you know, I can feel what it's like. And I was helping out with the sales, but I wasn't activated then. Like, I was waiting until a little bit further on. And then from there it was like, you know, he did like, started the pitch and then like, price anchored quite High, like $11,723.87 or something. And he goes like, if you think that this would be worth that much, then stay standing. And then like, some sit down, but most people stay standing because it's a bit awkward. Yeah, he looks like cheap fuck, right?

Yeah, yeah.

He's like, well, I'm not even going to charge you that much. Is the initial first price drop, right? And then anchors more value and then goes like, if you really want to do X. I can't remember how you worded it, but then he basically got them to go from standing then into the aisle. So he's just cramming people into the aisle.

Right, right.

And that's when I stood up and started just pushing people into the aisle. Fucking get in there. Get in there. Right? And they're all like, crammed like this and looking at him. And then he did another action where it's like, okay, well if, like another barrier looks like if you want to do X, Y and Z. And then he did another price drop with more value, more testimonials, and then gave another command to go to the back of the room. And then so we started pushing people to the back of the room. And then, like, you know, some people then, like, grab a seat, sit down. But you still probably got 80% of the people that initially raised their hand now moving towards the back of the room. Then from there he went and he moved off stage and then pushed. We pushed everyone to the back of the room. And then he took a standing position in front of them.

Right.

Therefore, completely ignoring everyone behind him, like you and the horse you rode in on. And then from there, he did a series of, like, he did a final price anchor, final price drop to, like, the final price of what you're going to get it at. And then instructions. And then it was like. But it was very, very methodical. And he'd obviously done it tons of times before, but it was just a boom, boom. And the series of actions was just beautiful. Like, it was so. It was such a perfect example of working with humans because it's like, oh, okay. Like, I can't. I have to, like, I have to make it so that it's awkward to step out of this process. Because 95% of people are just sheep. They're just going to do as they're told. And if there's a maximum of 20% of people that will buy in that room, like, you need it to feel like 80% are going to buy.

Okay.

You know, because, like, they need to just go along with it.

And in that instance, is there people who kind of march down the back, like, fuck, yeah. And then get there. They're like, oh, no, I just got caught up in it.

100%. Yeah. 100%. Yeah.

You say to those people, thank you for your service.

Yeah, you need them, you know, and there's people who are just lay downs. Like, there's just like 10 people. I remember there's one chick, she walked in with like three Chanel bags, because it was like in the casino. And the casino's got like a Chanel store and a Gucci store. She walked in, like a little Chanel bag. She's like five grand. So. Yes. Wait, she's kind of walked in the back. Probably never even logged in.

Never used it.

She was like, sweet, you know, dream client. I mean, this sounds great. Yeah, a lot of fun. You know, she's like 22, you know, so, yeah, that was pretty funny. But then. And then from there, you know, they did the champagne pop. The interesting thing is he said, like, when I say go and not before, it was very, like. I thought that was very interesting. Maybe you can break down. It's like, hey, when I say go and not before. You're moved to the back of the room and you're take advantage of X, Y and Z and. But when I say go and not before. And it was very. He said it a few times. It's very intentional. And then he finished with like, there are 43 spots available. There are 400 of you here. Go.

Yeah, right.

Like that. There was this like rush champagne bottles sort of flying.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, that would be. You know, you're coiling a spring at that point.

Right.

Like, you're just putting tension on people to like, you. Did he prime that prior? Like when you raise your hand, did he. Did he also say.

He might have, but I might have not picked up on it. But it's all like, stage selling is so psychological because, like, you have to put people off. That's the thing as well. Like you. There is a percentage of the room that will hate what you're doing.

Yeah.

And that's fine.

You have to be okay with that.

Yeah. Like our presentation at. For the seventh level challenges, like, people complain that they're too long or pitch because a 45 minute pitch, it's long, with like five price drops. Anchors like. And people are like, fucking get to it already. You know what I mean? And even like Marco's told us we need to shorten it. Everyone's told us and be like, fuck, no, you. We're not touching a thing.

Yeah.

It works like, we collected $750,000 in three days. Collected.

Yeah.

That's not including the payment plans.

Yeah, yeah.

Like, and we haven't even got all the financing in yet.

Yeah.

Like, we'll do a million dollars front end.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, from 180k spend.

Yeah.

And we would have converted, you know, like over 20% of the whole room.

Yeah.

On a. On a Zoom.

Yeah.

If we translate that to in person, it's 50%.

Yeah.

You know, because the amount of like, momentum that you get. Because the thing that you don't have with Zoom is the hype. Yeah. Is you don't have the herd mentality.

Yeah. Yeah.

You just have to rely on, like, all the things that you've done prior. So if we take that same three days and we do that over a day, like if we're. Because it's only two blocks of two hours. If we were to do a six hour thing and then pitch at the end, we would melt the whole room because now we can do all the other stuff and just decimate. And we are going to do that next year.

Yeah, I'm excited for that.

Like, it'll be crazy if we get two or three thousand people that event. We'll melt a thousand of them.

Yeah, right.

No doubt.

Yeah.

Just they want to know what the fuck's going on.

Yeah.

Unless they're all clients, in which case, like, we'll have to play it differently. Yeah, yeah.

So what happens then?

Well, we know. We know beforehand.

Okay.

We'd know. Well beforehand. But chance, it's a small likelihood that they're all clients. Probably have 20% clients, 80% non clients.

If you know there's 20% clients there, you'd know that because you get the emails and stuff. Like, surely you would include that in it. Be like, hey, 20% of the people in this room have already bought this product and they came just to be. To hear this again. Like, that's how we bring them up on stage, include them in it.

Yeah.

Jeremy's the beast at that.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's a lot of fun, though. I'm looking forward to it. And Jim Con will be fine. It's a really good product and it'll be fun. Like Hermos is going to be there. Alex Rodriguez, the really world famous baseball player, like one of the best players ever, ever live, he's doing there. He's doing a little keynote at the end.

Cool.

I, you know Eli Wild? Yeah, yeah, I messaged him. He's going to come down.

Oh, cool.

Help out.

I'd like to be a part of it. Not just to hang out.

No, yeah. To help me out with the sales.

Oh, perfect.

I needed someone.

Yeah.

You know, and then Will Hinkson as well is going to come down.

Nice.

So, yeah, we'll have like the three of us that know sales really well. We can sort of split up and do the thing and then Eli can help Kale just like, because he's the master of stage pitching. You know, he can, he'll help him on the day, make sure he's got all this together. You dial it in. Yeah, yeah, that. Because I think, I think, I'm not sure though, but I think Eli might have helped Alex with his repitch.

Okay.

Because Alex will do a soft repitch on day. On the next day.

Okay.

Then there's another repitch because you usually do like three or four pitches at an event. Yeah, just do one.

So what else happens at this thing? The remainder of the time?

And I'm not interested.

But I imagine they probably got like vendor booths and.

Yeah, so they got Arsenal strength, which is like probably the best, most innovative fitness Equipment company. There is.

Okay.

I remember when I was working for a Australian, sort of.

They're gone now. You can say anything.

Yeah.

Strength. They were ripping off their designs.

Yeah. Right, okay.

Yeah. They would get, like, Arsenal. They just make the most innovative. So they'd, like, come in, buy it, and then from there they'd get, like, micrometers out, measure everything, send it off to their factory in Vietnam and have it ripped off. And then call it their branding.

Of course.

Yeah. Because they're dipshits like that.

But back to the gym con. So there's all these people in the hotel for that whole period of time, right. Like three days.

Yeah.

It goes till 10pm every day. So there's like, a networking event at night. I've got the run sheet, but, like, I'm just not interested. Like, I'm there to do a job.

Yeah.

Like, I don't even have any interest in, like, meeting the people.

Yeah.

I literally just want to go there. Like, I've been asked to increase sales and revenue that company by at least 30%.

Okay.

This is, like, the only thing I care about.

Okay.

You know, so.

Yeah.

And so you being out there networking with those people, like, pulling the odd individual sale here and there is not gonna contribute to that.

Really.

Right.

It'll help and I'll. Because. But I really want to make sure that the other guys do it.

Yes.

Like, they're the force.

Yeah.

You know, so I'm gonna go there. I'll make sure it's run. Sales is run optimally because, like, prior to us stepping in, I don't think much was done optimally for that event.

Okay.

Because their first event. Not that I've done events, but you can see holes.

Okay.

You know, when you. When you're. When you're asked to find holes, it's easier to see.

Yeah. Yeah.

Like, I'm sure if I got someone to come into seventh level, they'd be able to find holes that we can't see.

Of course.

You know, it's just that we have, like, we have more people. So, like, I've got me, Marco, Jeremy, and Anthony. So there's four people looking for holes all the time.

Yeah.

You know, so, like, we see a lot and we're constant because we spend our own money as well. That's a real difference. When you have people who run a company whose money it is, like, it's our money.

So who's not spending their money? Explain that to me.

Well, Jim Lawrence, they're not, like, Kale is a great CEO. It's not his money anymore.

Okay.

It's not his, he's not his business. He's a CEO.

Okay. Right.

So like what I've like it's not even like, but like I can imagine when Alex was running was, it was a little bit different because it was his money. You know what I mean? So like, but also like, you mean.

Because it's owned now by, it's owned.

By a PE firm.

Okay.

So like it's hard to.

So they're on salaries like the CEOs on a salary.

Yeah. Which is like how 99 of businesses are run. Yeah, like, yeah. But like when you're constantly spending your own money, like your, your problem, solving it, you dive into it a lot more I think. And you find you're constantly looking for ways to become more efficient. Because like we don't really care too much about revenue. I really care about profit and efficiency. So. Because like then you can scale revenue. You can't scale revenue with a leaky bucket. So like three or four months ago, we figured out seven Level was pretty leaky because we were so busy fixing stuff at Sales Sniper that we sort of everything was working. So it just happens like exactly what's happening at all different companies and you know, like you take your eye off the ball for one second and like I'm sure that gymcon was a tremendous distraction, you know, to do the first big event. There's tons of logistics that goes involved in that.

Tons.

So then gym launch would have like some of that stuff would have been forgotten about.

Yeah.

Because you're so busy over here. And when we were Fixing Sales Sniper, 7th level got a little bit leaky buckety because like we weren't looking over it and the sales managers were doing their thing. But again, it's not their money, you know, so like their level of scrutiny on stuff is just nowhere near it. So then when we kind of like swung back around, we're like, fuck. So with the same money we've doubled the sales, like I think even more. We've gone from averaging 7 sales a day to averaging almost 20 sales a day with the same ad spend.

Yeah, right.

Because we just fix stuff.

Give me an example of something. You fix it a lot.

One thing that was really fucked up is that like the managers which are gone now were like they were trusting the data of the salespeople implicitly without double checking it.

Okay.

And it was wrong.

Yeah.

Right. And so we found like, we, we, we, we thought we had a show up rate of like 39% which is like, it's not good, but it's not. Like, it's not catastrophic. What we actually had was this was a show up rate of like, 19%.

Okay.

And the sales team was underreporting 700 calls a month.

Okay.

So what they were doing is they were double and triple booking every single spot. But they. The ones that didn't shop, they weren't counting. Right. Or they were only, like, they weren't counting all of them. And like, it was a show and it was really like. I stopped training the sales team after that. I said, you not. You're all dead to me. Because, like, they weren't doing anything to try and get people to turn up. They were just like, oh, it. We got so many leads. Who cares? Like, that was literally the mentality.

Yeah.

So I was like, well, I'm not training any of you. Any of you, because I've been teaching you how to do all these things for ages now. But none of you can be. You just want to spend my money, you know? So I was like, pull it back. All that. Um, and then we got rid of the sales managers, got a new one in, and then we got Anthony in to sort of. And then we did an audit of everything. So me, Marco, and Anthony audited everything. And then we found everything that was wrong. The marketing was awesome, but we found everything that was wrong with the sales department. So we just started fixing things one by one. Like, and now it's like, we're like, we're literally booking less calls. So we turned the ad spend down or booking less calls, but more showing up. So now each guy, instead of having. Some guys, were having 18 calls booked a day because they're just triple booked. So it's like six spots, triple booked, 18 calls. Each call costs, like 150 bucks, you know, so spending tens of thousands of dollars like, in a day of our money, not even being bothered to send a fucking confirmation text. Hey, you come and.

Yeah.

Okay, so that's what I was gonna ask. You've just improved the process of getting people onto the call rather than getting. But it's not that you're getting better leads. They're the same leads. You're just nurturing them better along the way.

People forget.

Yeah.

You know, and. And then because it was high volume, they were just booking themselves out for two weeks.

Mm.

But. But, like, because we have a thing where you can't book up more than four days. But they were just going in. They were changing the settings in their diary so they could be booked out more you know, and then, like, shorts and they're not becoming. They booked 10 days ago. They're not coming.

Yeah.

Why have that?

Yeah.

No one. No one remembers that. You know what I mean? So there was that. And then. So what we did is we scaled everything back, like, from a core volume perspective and made everyone only allowed to have eight calls a day.

Okay.

That was the max. And then it was like, okay, cool. And then from there, like, they had to get people turn up. So then we rewrote all the process and. And then, like, if somebody know showed, we had a process where, like, literally every single need was checked individually. So I was like, hey, that person. So the sales manager, every single day goes into all the calls for the next day and then spot checks, like 40 or 50% of them, and then to make sure all the call confirmations have been done. And if they're not done, all that. All that salesperson's calls are removed from the diary and they're off the rotator for four days.

Right. Okay.

That's a hefty penalty.

Yeah.

So it's like, no, fuck you. You get no leads.

And what happens? Those calls are just moved to someone else that they've already booked.

Yeah.

Yep. It's like, nope, done.

Okay, see you later.

Bye.

So now they're highly incentivized in both directions. They've got quality leads that are going to turn up.

Yeah. And some people we know had $60,000 worth of leads a month sent to them.

Yeah. Right.

And Dragon, they're largely unaware of that. Like, the cost involved in that.

I mean, I've said it so many times. Like, it's just willful ignorance.

Yeah.

You know, it's really rude. It really. I haven't been mad at a sales team like that before. I was like, I refuse to speak to them.

Yeah.

Still haven't spoken to them.

Okay.

Like, no, you don't get me if, like, they want to be trained by me. No, thanks. Like, because that's a. It's a privilege. It's my time, you know? And so why would I teach you how to overcome an objection?

Yeah.

If you're not getting people on the.

Phone, if you're refusing to send a text.

Yeah, yeah.

You know what I mean? And so, like.

And so do you think that was just, like, laziness because the leads were there?

Yeah. And like, I don't know. It's like. Yeah, I get it. Yeah, I get it. Like, I get it. You know, there's tons of leads. Why bother?

Yeah.

Just fucking.

Because they're not paying for the leads.

Yeah.

And then they were just closing lay down. So there was so many leads. They were just like, listen to the cause they're like, yeah, okay. You know.

Yeah.

You like stuff?

Yeah, like stuff. All right, so. Yeah.

And like, you know, like, so then. But now it's like, now it's different, you know, so everyone has to follow the process. If they don't, they're immediately punished. But now, like, the guys can work less and make more money. So it's not like it's for, like, yes, it's for our benefit, but it's also like, just do the right thing.

Yeah.

Like this is the right thing to do because it makes you more efficient. It makes the business more efficient. Like we said, like, hey, guys, like, we can't keep spending the money we're spending on ads because you guys are just wasting like 70% of all leads. It's just a giant waste. Close. Rates were low, show up rates were low. But we were making a ton of sales because we had so many leads and our leads were so cheap. So. But it's like, that's not scalable though. You pour more fuel on that fire, it just, just extinguishes, you know, so we had to fix it and we managed to fix it. And then from there, like we, we were able to scale back ad spend but still make more sales, make the business more profitable, you know, which then means you can invest more into training, you can invest more into stuff, you can invest more into ads, you know, and content and the business grows.

Yeah.

And then you can dial back up the ad spend and actually have it result in a much higher profit or much higher turnover or revenue.

Yeah, exactly. So like it's, it works like we can. It makes no sense.

Yeah. It's wild.

Yeah.

So back to GymCon. What kind of follow up then happens? So like if you don't close people there. All right, so let's say, let's be crazy optimistic and, and say you sell 20% of people that are there.

Yeah.

Those remaining 80% of people day after, what happens to them?

They should all get called.

Yeah. Okay.

And they should be offered a different offer.

Okay.

It should be offered like in my, like, and I know the offer. I won't say it because they don't offer it.

Yeah.

So that like something else.

Yeah.

Like you'd be ridiculous not to take it.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Right.

Just to get people in.

So that happened. So there's back of the room selling, but then there's follow up along the way is that something that you're training the guys to do or they've got their own team that do that?

Well, we're sort of training the sales team at the moment.

Okay.

It's a tricky one because like I can't train them too much because like it just ends up in a negative result. So you've got to kind of like really pick and choose. Like the, the hard thing about doing this kind of stuff is like if you bullet a gate it, you'll fuck everything, you know, so you got to be really tactical of what you choose to fix.

Yeah.

I think that's for sure the case. Like when you give people too much information, all you do is confuse them and they get worse at what they're doing.

Yeah.

It's little bit by little. Bit by little bit.

Yeah, it's tough. And that's why I think most sales consultancy is really bad.

Mm.

Because like they have a way of doing things and they just want to implement their way.

Yeah.

It's like that's not.

Yeah.

Like you have to remove your ego and you have to go like, well, our goal is to make this business more money. So we have to just think of everything in that angle. Like, how do you make the. Like, if I, if I go in there and I give them our script, my script is patently better than their script. But if I give them their scripts, what does it take? Three months to figure it out?

Yeah.

So then I've got this huge drop in revenue. So then I've got to make up for it somewhere else and I'm adding work.

Yeah.

So it's just like I just, I don't add anything.

Yeah.

So what I have to do is just make everything a little bit more simple and then like increase things by 5 to 8%, you know, like, how can I get their show up rate to this? How can I get their close rate to this? How can I, you know, and so it's like without sort of one putting too much pressure on us or putting too much pressure on them or like fundamentally changing the way the whole team works together. Because if you change the team dynamic too significantly, that's going to result in negative things as well. So generally speaking, what I do is I find that fastest way to a positive is to remove negatives. That gives you a net positive result.

Yeah. Okay.

So I just find like the things that are egregious and I just take them out first and then usually just dial up the activity.

Okay.

So I teach them how to do referrals. Because like, how do you fuck that up? You just ask for them, you know, teach them how to do referrals, teach them how to like reactivate their pipeline and then get all the outbounders and SDRs and stuff like that doing more. Because generally speaking they really under, they under dial a lot. So then from there it's like we have more opportunity then from there I'll usually get them to teach them objection handling. Because if we can just teach them how to handle objections, they'll get 10% more sales anyway. Just because now they know what to say when someone says something. You just got like a genuine concern they need overcoming instead of just default to booking another call, which is what they're doing at the moment.

Right. Okay.

So yeah, and then from there I have like a longer term plan of like reducing the amount of calls and you know, doing a bunch of stuff. But that's, you know, realistically going to take six months.

Sure.

If you want to do it without dropping revenue.

Yeah, I think that's one of the important things. Like I've trained a lot of people, do a lot of different things and had a couple of instances where people, you know, like three months into training someone with something, they're like, why didn't you tell me this at the start? And it's like, well, because now you have a shelf to put this information on. Before it would have just been floating around with no context in which to understand it. And I think that's the case no matter what you're teaching people to do. Like, it's incremental.

And that's, I think, where a lot of people get it wrong. Because like, this is our way of doing it, this is the right way and this is how we do it. And they have a game plan of how they implement. Like we're going to write new scripts and it sounds really awesome for the business owner. Whereas, like my pitch is way less sexy.

It's like, I'll figure it out.

Yeah, I'll figure it out. Like what, what? It's like, what are you going to do? It's like, well, this is what I can do, but what I'm going to do is probably a little bit different.

Yeah.

Because that is a hard thing to pitch. Like, like if you didn't have the runs on the board with the things that you've achieved and the referrals of the, like, you know, the evidence that you've done it successfully in the past.

Yeah, yeah.

When you go to someone and you're like, oh, well, I don't really have a system. I'm just gonna, like, plug some holes and then do some stuff.

Yeah.

And then just see where I can add value.

Yeah.

You know, like, that's pretty. Like, beat it.

Yeah.

Yeah. I sort of started figuring out how to pitch it a bit better. And it's like a find lost revenue.

Okay.

You know, and so then, like, I compare it to, like, what I think is, like, acceptable standards. So, like, for example, like, with the. One of the things I found, like, one of the line items I found was 2 1/2 million dollars a year worth of, like, lost revenue in their financing department. So. Because they're getting 22% of people from, like. Like from application to approved funding and, like, going through. But I can. I can make it better. I can get it to 33.

Okay.

If I get it to 33, it's $2.2 million.

Yeah.

But I know how to do that because I've done it.

Right.

I've done it in my business.

Yeah.

So, like, I just know it's a playbook on how to do that. So it's like, well, I gotta do is put this. And I give you. I give you 2.5 million a year with revenue.

That's a pretty easy.

Like, how do you do that? I was like, I know how to do it.

Yeah. Yeah.

You gotta pay the money and I tell you how to do.

Right.

Like, it's a pretty easy fix. Then there was a bunch of other stuff like that. Like, I had to look at just, like, all their stats. And then when you start to break down, like, hey, this is the KPI that you have. But it's physically impossible to hit for these reasons. They just hadn't worked that out yet, you know, because, like, I'm just pulling from, like, odd places to compile, like, a thing. And you go, oh, this is impossible to do. But it's like, it takes someone who's done that before to realize. And it was just the fact that, like, they're like, average time to close is just not a metric many people track. But, like, I know to look at it. So it's like, you have to track, you know, a lot of different. It's really annoying because it's not a set figure that anyone would track and that no data can really give you until you just go on and try and find it. Because you have to look at how long each prospect is in the system, and then you have to look at how long the aggregate time that someone spoke to them was. Okay, all right, this is A difficult stat to find because it's not recorded anywhere.

Yeah.

So you actually have to go in there and make some assumptions, but then also like track a bunch of different client journeys from a bunch of different funnels and then you can figure out how long it actually takes to sell someone.

Right.

It's an important thing to know because like, that'll dictate your staffing.

Yeah. Okay.

You know, like, because if your process takes four hours to sign somebody and you have a goal of 20 people per week.

Yeah.

You need 80.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You don't have 80. It's physically impossible to do.

Yeah.

So. And then when you account for follow up, you know, so you got to all into account. And so then it's like sweet, like that process and that KPI don't work, so you have to change the KPI or change the process, which one you want to do.

Yeah.

And it's like, well, we can't change the KPI. It's like, well, then we have to change this. So it's like, how do we do that without ruining stuff? You know, and then when you start to find all those kind of things and you put them together and you're like, this is all the things that are preventing this from, from working the way that it should work. And it's super common because like I walk into every business and it's almost the same, you know, so.

So like there's really. Where can people learn that beyond, I don't know. Yeah. So this is the thing. So you've just figured it out over time. And because you're a data nerd, you dive into everything and have found correlations where people may not have, or people haven't realized that they're correlated. Just because you've invested the time in understanding the data.

Yeah. Like you should be able to look at, like I, you should be able to look at like a sales data tracking sheet. And if it's got all the appropriate things that you would want to track, you should be able to figure out exactly what's going right and wrong.

Yeah.

If you can't, then there's something else going on. So like with a couple of business I've gone into, like, I couldn't figure it out because you go, there's a data. And you go, that doesn't make a lot of sense. So let's assume the data is correct. If you assume the data is correct, then you, you have to go on that pathway of going, let's assume this is all right, so then how do we Problem solve. Then you got to go and you sort of start like taking clients and you got to start reverse engineering their journey. So you got to go, well, how did these people get in? Does that line up with what I'm seeing here? And then if it does, then you're like, all right, cool, the data is right and there's something else going on.

Okay.

And then like, for example, like at seventh level, we had a. Our show rate was low, but it wasn't. And so we were like, like, what's happening? Because like, the. The show rate is low from somewhere. Because, like, let's say you got 10 places where people can come in if everywhere is 70%, but one place is 10, but that's a pretty high volume place that will significantly skew the data. So you start turning. So you have to have like, let's untick one at a time and see how it kind of maneuvers it. But not everything is that easily done. It took like, I think it took Marco six weeks to figure out it was from an emails. But it's not from our email marketing campaigns that we do directly to book calls. Our previous VP of marketing, who we fired, had a PS booking link down the bottom of every single email as a default in the footer.

Okay.

So it's ps. If you want to call, click here. Very low intent lead. And that was not in any funnel.

Right.

So they were getting booked. We could not figure out from where.

Right.

Because it was just like, it was another. Like it was a generic link that kind of was linked to everything.

Okay.

And we track all of our email leads. Like, we know Exactly. We make 100k a week from email.

Right?

So like, we know it's like, it's not that. That's. That took ages to figure it out. We turned that off show right. Straight back up.

Right?

So, like, had we have just gone off the show rate data, we would have still continually been like changing text messages, changing outbound, having a look at process.

Okay.

We would have been making changes, you know what I mean? Which could have had negative results. But we're like, no, there's something off. We just couldn't figure out what it was. So we didn't touch anything. We're like, no, no. Like everything's good, but there's somewhere that this is up. And we figured out it's low. Super low. Intently. It's like a P.S. like, hey, if you want to call a book here, like, that's just a trash way of. Okay, just don't do that because like those people Are going to no show a lot.

Really?

Yeah.

Well, obviously they've got the data on.

That and they had like a 10% show rate or something like that. And that just dragged down. And we don't need those leads. Like, you know, we've got plenty of leads. We don't need that.

So. So do you think like even having that link is a bad strategy or being unaware of that link is a bad strategy?

Both.

Okay.

You know.

Yeah.

Like there, for some businesses it might be a fine strategy, but like it's just not for us.

Right.

Because we have a really dedicated email sequence that gets people to need that.

So.

So do you think like even having that link is a bad strategy or being unaware of that link is a bad strategy?

Both.

Okay.

You know.

Yeah.

Like there, for some businesses it might be a fine strategy, but like it's just not for us.

Right.

Because we have a really dedicated email sequence that gets people to book in.

Yeah.

You know, email marketing that we use that books a lot of calls.

Yeah.

So like, why have it? Yeah, our content ones as well. Like it, you know, it doesn't.

Yeah.

So I think like what you're kind of describing there is like a bit of a dark matter problem. Like, you know, that it has to exist, you just can't tangibly find it. But that's the role of experience, is being able to look around in the dark and find it.

Yeah, yeah. And that's what we've become really good at. It's where like we've done it with tons of businesses now and you find similar things. Like we did one called the Libman group. They're a $450 million a year cleaning company. You know, we found one, some stuff from them. We've. We found like tons of stuff that just wasn't being done.

Yeah.

Coaching companies. Like there was a textiles company in Germany that we did some. That we did a bunch of stuff for. We reduced their sales cycle from 12 months to four months.

Yeah. Right. Okay.

You know, that's a huge win.

Yeah, yeah.

So it was like, well, no more money. It's like, well, okay, let's just try and. 12 months. All right. Let's just try and get it down. Because if we get it down, they can turn over more deals.

Yeah, yeah.

So like, there you go.

Yeah.

So I think that's what's interesting is like the metric of just get more people in, sell more stuff is not necessarily the best or most accurate thing because it's like fix all the friction points, streamline the process make it as efficient as possible.

Yeah, get it totally the opposite. You have to make it super friction filled to then see what breaks.

Right? Okay.

You know, so depending on the marketing strategy, you might have to add a bunch of things and then start removing them systematically.

Right?

Because if you can't tell what's wrong, if there's been no historical data, it's just not working. It's just not working. I don't know. Then it's like, all right, well, let's overcomplicate this on purpose and then simplify it and then we'll hit a point where everything is copacetic. Okay. This is a good level of friction because you got no friction. Then you end up in an environment for most of the time where you have an enormous sales team and they're all broke. Right. You just like flood it, which is a strategy. A lot of people do, like super high turnover sales positions. You know, they just like, like door knocking, right? Like they get 100 people in five stay. 100 people in five stay. Just go knock doors, motherfuckers. Right? Like, yeah, go do your best. So there's no friction there. It's just knocking doors. Yeah, right, Straight there. So but if you're to do like mailers first and then only go and speak to the people who replied to the mailers or. You know what I mean? Or did something, some action, then you'd have a much more friction filled to your close rate to be a lot higher. So you'd have a far less turnover of people, but you're massively limiting opportunity.

I think one thing that I find myself constantly having to remind myself when we have these conversations is the amount of vetting that you do prior to even taking on a client. Because, like, it seems to me the first thing is like, is the product any good? Is the offer any good? Yeah, but you're not even dealing with, like, that's number one thing you look at, right?

Yeah.

Like if, if, if someone comes to you goes, hey, we're not making the sales we thought we would.

And then you look at go.

It's because you're offering something no one wants. Fuck off.

Yeah, like, you don't even dirt bag offer. I had a guy the other day and like, listen, whatever. He's making money doing this thing, but I had no interest. And he runs a only fans agency. Like, so it's like teaches guys how to run an only fans agency.

Okay.

I was like, it's like, we're making a ton of money coming down. I was like, I've got no interest. Like, we're making a ton of money. I was like, okay, good luck. Good luck. Like, had another guy pitches me, can.

I get his number after?

Yeah, another guy, he pitches me super hard on, like, this affiliate thing, you know, that they want us to look at. And I was like, I just not interested. It's just not of any. Like, first of all, the only fans thing is like, I got a daughter. Like.

Yeah.

Doesn't seem like the move for me. Whatever people can sell, make money doing. Selling bathwater if they want. It doesn't affect me in any sort of way, but I don't have any. Want to be involved.

Sure.

You know, and then like, with other stuff, I just go, like, if it's not like a long term thing, you know, if I think it's like a flash in the pan, it's like, what's the point?

Okay.

You know, we make enough money. That's what I tell people. They go, are you gonna. You can make $10 million? I. Okay, like, this a lot of money. No doubt about it. But, like, is it really, like, gonna cost? Yeah, yeah. Is it gonna move the ball forward in any sort of significant way for what we're actually doing? It's like, what's the point?

Yeah, it's a distraction.

Yeah.

It's just like, yeah, cool. And it's like, probably not gonna make that much money. Yeah, like, that's a reality. You can imagine if it did, though. But, like, I'm sure it would make a bit. But then it's like, you know, it's funny, right? Like, when we worked with, you know, like, working with. There's a company that we've worked with for a long time, and they do product launches, like, all the time. So every 12 weeks to do a new product launch.

Okay.

And every single time they do a product launch, all their other sales die because they focus all marketing and sales on the product launch. And it's because the owner of that business likes seeing the huge spike of sales in a new product, not really realizing it's killing all the other products. And it just. They don't make any more money. And I've had this conversation, and it's just like, yeah, but look at all the new sales. It's like, yeah, but like, but you've dropped off. Like, you're not making any more money, so what's the point of this? You know? And like, so, like, when we do our challenges, for example, at seventh, people are like, oh, you should. You'd get much bigger challenges if you advertised it on, like, YouTube and everywhere as well, on Instagram, because we only do it on Facebook and Tick Tock. Not even on ig. Right. It's very specific. And they go, why don't you just open it up for everyone? I was like. Because then the rest of it would die.

Crush everything else.

Yeah.

Like, so we need sales to be totally normal during the challenge, after the challenge, before the challenge, to maintain that sort of baseline revenue. And the challenge is a huge boost in revenue. Nothing else changes. So, like, otherwise we could just redirect our advertising for 10 days, make less money, make more money, and then it sort of evens out.

Yeah.

What's the point?

Yeah.

So, yeah, anyway.

All right, well, you're off to gencon Orlando.

I love you.

It's an interesting place, Orlando.

It is. Yeah.

The Mormons love it.

Do they?

That's where. Have you seen Book of Mormon?

Yeah. Yeah.

That's where it wants to go.

Yeah.

Orlando ends up in Africa.

Yeah.

All right, well, have fun.

Yeah.

We'll talk about it when you get back.

All right, cool. Bye. Put that coffee down, Sam.