Building a Sales Process for B2B vs B2C

Hey, guys, what's up? Welcome to another episode of Coffees for Closers. Me and James, as usual again today.

How we going?

Good, man. We're going to talk about B2B versus B2C selling today.

Yeah.

And some of the different strategies we use on. On either of those calls, like how we set it up in terms of structure. Just basically a general conversation, right?

Yeah. So B2B versus B2B transition is always a good one for salespeople to make. So there's a lot more money in B2B. It's a bit of a different. And I'll talk to you about the differences between, like, I guess some of the more technical differences between the two and also like the hybrid model that we find ourselves in a lot these days. So with that being said, cue the intro.

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I think a lot of confusion is around like, like, oh, no, I sell B2B because I set up businesses. But it's like, well, no you don't, because, like, you're just selling to like solopreneurs and stuff.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I wouldn't classify that as a B2B. So maybe like, explain to start off, like, how do you classify one B2B versus B2C? And whilst it could be selling to a business, it's not typically a business unless they're purchasing multiples of that product. I'd say that's a major defining factor.

It's more enterprise versus solo operators, you know. So like, like most enterprise level sales have. I think it's like 6.8 or something like that. It's around between five and seven decision makers.

Yeah.

And so that when you're at the enterprise level, like, you have to kind of. There's different processes that you need to go through in order to kind of actually end up getting the sale. Whereas when you're talking about, you know, like a small business like a solopreneur or somebody with a really, really flat owner operator model. Yeah. Or just also a really, really flat org chart where it's like maybe one guy at the top and then just a couple of dudes under. Like there's not much of a, you know, pyramid going down then that's going to be more of a business to kind of solopreneur or individual. Which is different again from B2C which is business direct, consumer. Like if you're selling business coaching to coaches, you're doing, you're doing like B2B. If you're selling like business coaching to fitness coaches, that's still B2B but it's like it's not Enterprise B2B. Those fitness coaches are selling direct to consumer.

Yeah, but you would take that B2C approach to that single.

Yeah, yeah. So like it's slightly different. Like. So really the big changes are. One of the big myths is that you don't sell an emotion. You, you still do. You still have a lot of emotive sellings still going through cost of inaction and consequence. But your pro. The the sales cycle is longer. So usually you're going to have a minimum of three calls instead of a one to two call process. And you're gonna have to have some sort of demonstration of your deliverables instead of in like a B2C scenario where you're sort of, you can just sell it off, whatever you say. But then also contracts play a larger role and stuff like that of which they don't really play as big of a role in B2C. I've sold thousands and thousands of things to you know, in that business, to individual or business to consumer model where you know, contracts are borderline irrelevant. Really.

Yeah. It also seems like like the biggest hold up in a B2C classic B2C deal is like funding. Whereas like the biggest hold up and getting a deal done in like the B2B is board approval. Is what? Sorry? Board approval?

Yeah, that's definitely one of them. Board approval. Not every company has a board, obviously.

Yeah.

Like we don't have a board but like it would, it's sort of like working your way up that chain. Yeah, yeah. So it's like you might have like you might be talking to a manager. So you know what, what you think might relatively straightforward is like you have to be able to get to decision makers.

Yes.

And you have to have a process where you can do one, maybe two calls with like the manager. But then like your third or your fourth goal like that's going to want to have the people who can actually pull the trigger. And even then what really freaks people out when they transition is then contracts are sent out. Once contracts are sent out then it's like waiting game. Yeah, waiting game. So yeah, so the really hard part is getting through as Decision makers and being able to navigate the corporate process. And a lot of the time it ends up being like an advocacy building game. So if you're doing like larger enterprise B2B, really what you're trying to do is you're trying to get the person that you're initially in contact with, sell them into the product or service really and like the benefit that it directly has to them, which is the difficult part because you might, they might not get any monetary benefit, but it might be a status benefit by allowing them to like they're the person who introduces someone who saves the company, you know, $400 million. Like that's, that's a career trajectory thing for them. So like you take them through the consequence of not. If not being that person, like not bringing this to the company, what happens if they find out that you had this information, you didn't bring it to your company. So like, you know, it becomes a consequence of inaction there. And then from there you just nurture that person as an advocate. One of our, one of my coaching clients, his name is Alex, I helped him close like a $25 million deal through just creating a series of corporate advocates in a large organization in Australia. And that's all he did. And then he managed to snake his way in there and then got to the decision makers and got the deal.

Yeah, because everyone, like in an enterprise, everyone wants that status when they're, you know, out for Friday night drinks at the end of the week and it's like, ah, I see Steve, look at the deal Steve got. Can't believe he bring this to the company that made us millions and millions.

You know what I mean?

Like, yeah, everybody wants that level of respect amongst their colleagues. So you can sort of. Well, not everyone does, but a lot of people do. And if that's what they want, you utilize that to build up to get to the next stage of them. Steve goes and has a chat with his boss who maybe is a decision maker. Then you get on a call with that person as Steve has sold to him and move forward from that.

Right?

Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, yeah, there are just, there's a lot more layers to B2B selling and you have to get through a lot more rigmarole. But the deals are a lot bigger and the commissions are usually a lot larger. But like a really good way to practice it is doing those small B2B deals where like, you know, you might have like a little organizational structure where you can practice these things and then you can start sort of, I guess like Manipulating your sales process to be more B2B friendly to where you can transition into bigger and bigger deals.

Yeah.

But also the framing of how you're introduced to the person is so much more important. Like when you're doing like B2C deals or whatever, like you can just have a title. It's like, you know, VP of Sales. And then it's like, you know, you get tanned over or something like that. But like how you're handed over and why that person should hop, even hop on the first call to begin with. Like, it can be a chasing game of emails so you can get them on. And one of the things that we found that's worked really well is once we have an initial time set in, when we get on that one, instead of doing what we're doing, B2C, which is try and book the call in the next 48 to 30, 72 hours, we just go same time next week. And then they go, yep. And so we can all agree on same time next week. We get it booked into the diaries. That means we don't all have to go back and forth trying to find something. So it allows us to get things in the diary. Because when you're talking to enterprise level people, like, there's obviously everyone's busy, like everyone. And so you just want to get them nailed down, get them on a call. And that means that your sales cycle will be at least three weeks.

Yeah.

Cool. Now just to rewind back, you said like, you know, there's B2C, then there's non enterprise B2B, then that becomes enterprise B2B. At which point in like that solopreneur where they have that organizational chart, at which point do you move away from the B2C process into a B2B? Like, where is like the. Okay, this is sort of getting towards where it needs a longer drawn out process with the demo calls. Like where's.

I think the moment you're not talking directly to a decision maker.

Gotcha.

Like the moment you have a marketing manager or someone in a managerial position and you're not able to actually talk to the guy who can pull the trigger.

Gotcha.

That's when I would go into that process because you're not really extending the process massively. So even if it's overkill, I'd rather have it be overkill than underkill.

Cool. And all right, so like, if we look at like the process and structural change, right. We're at the B2C level. Non Enterprise B2B. Enterprise B2B. What are some of the actual structural changes that you do when we're switching the structural changes.

So the first thing is you, obviously you elongate the process.

Right.

Because that gives you time to get the decision makers in. So you go to at least a three core close. Sometimes you'll pitch on the second call. Most of the time you'll end up doing, like, your actual, okay, let's send out contracts on the. On the third call, you have to have some sort of visual presentation to provide. It doesn't mean they have to be able to take it home, but it's like you want to be able to run them through, like, okay, this is what we're doing. This is your problems. A competitor analysis is always a really strong thing to have. It's not just. Not necessarily the case. But like, for example, for seventh level, when we're doing, like, B2B sales training, like for factory owners or for whatever business we're doing it for, builders or whatever, then it's like, we'll take them through. We identify the pain point. We try and steer them into specific pain points. Whether it be just like a lack of sales or what we generally do is we do like, the leadership have really let their team down by not providing them with very strong sales training frameworks to allow their team to ultimately be successful. So that brings. Allows us to bring it back to a leadership framework, which is very. It's then very easy for us to get the guys to identify the problem as their own and not the problem of the sales staff. And then it's like, we can get the leadership on board. And then that way, like, they'll do a good job of implementing the stuff they want them to implement, but it also allows them to own the problem. They go. It's like, well, what do leaders do? Leaders take action. They solve problems. All right, cool. So, like, do you want to act as a leader or not? Right. So. And it allows us to tie in a lot of cost of inaction there. And yeah. So we just. We take them through that sort of that real demonstration. We have a couple of visual ways that we can do that that we've mapped out specific for the offer of how their salespeople are feeling, what they're going through because they don't have set structures in place. Then from there it's like, this is your problem. This is what it's costing you, and this is how much it costs to fix.

Yeah, yeah, okay. Not from like, what you present to everyone on a seventh level account.

Right.

If you're doing B2B for Sirhan as opposed to seventh level. Like how do you.

It's the problem you solve. Yeah, so like, you know, like we have, we have a particular way of doing things. Like for Sirhand, for example, we sell team training. For brokerages, we sell speaking events. So obviously we have to have different pitch decks for speaking events and for like team training or for in person events we have to have a pitch deck for that. And it's like basically the problem it's solving. So all the time for like an in person speaking gig, the problem it's solving could be internal team motivation and like retention.

Right.

So it's like, you know, what are you investing into your guys so that they actually stick around and not go to one of the more competitive, potentially cheaper brokerages that are taking 30% instead of 50%. Like what are you doing to, to maintain that? The second thing would, would be just potentially like pure skill level. Like if we can come in, provide them with some stuff and upskill them and have a level of specificity. So it's like we just got to really figure out like what's the problem that we're solving. And then from there like our pitch deck is going to be relative generic with deliverables, but then how we deliver that is going to be designed to solve a different problem for each individual. So I'll give you an example. Like I can have a pitch deck, say I'm doing sales training, but we don't provide one on one sales coaching. We provide everything in a group or a rockser for example, like we do with inner circle. Then it's like my pitch deck would be like, we give you this because of this. You know what I mean? And so like you, you justify the way that you do things and then you potentially like give reasons as to why you wouldn't do it another way.

Yeah, but you don't do that unless they have an objection of like I wanted to do one, like I want.

One on one coach potentially. But sometimes you can just preemptive.

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know what I mean?

All right. So like basically you create a, a pitch deck and slides of deliverables based around one knowing the niche, understanding like the objections you've had in the past of what they're looking for.

Yeah.

And then that pitch deck is almost designed to pre handle the potential objections from the pain points of those people.

Right?

Yeah. Which is the same for any pitch deck really. Your pitch deck just wants to give enough information to where they, they know what they're Getting but not so much information to where you introduce other objections. Like because you can do that, you give someone 50 things. Like if I was to go to James and I was to try and sell him into something and I was like, you get these 42 things.

Yeah.

Right.

Well, you'd just be like, well, given the, given how busy you are, are, there's no physical way that you can take advantage of those.

Yeah, yeah.

So like, more is not better. It's like if I sell you into three times a week training for $50 or unlimited training for 55, you can't do unlimited.

I want three.

So yeah, you can't do unlimited. So if I just sell you into $55 for unlimited, like, you're never going to come unlimited. Now no one can ever utilize unlimited, which is why it's a stupid model anyway.

Yeah.

And also really limited scalability because you have to assume that everybody comes every day and then all of a sudden you cap your membership. But anyway, that's a whole different.

I also won't come three times a week if I've got unlimited because I'm not told when I where I need to be.

Yeah, but it's just like I'm selling you, it's overwhelming how much you get. So like, you'll never feel like you're getting the value. So like if I sell you three and you come three, you're happy. If I say you unlimited and you come three, three, you're dissatisfied.

Right.

So you're like, man, I'm just not really utilizing it, you know? And so like, then we have to have a drop cell conversation. But like, if you just do unlimited anyway, so it's just like I can't, I can't present something to someone who's busy that has a perceived. Although you're, you're giving it perceived value, what you're doing is inducing an objection of like, I don't know that I can actually utilize this because now I'm attaching that dollar figure to everything.

So you gotta think about it.

I don't need everything, but you're giving me everything. So now I'm like, if you give me a hamper with 25 things in it, I'm only like three of them.

I'm not buying the hamper.

Exactly. But if you just charge me the same price for those three things, I'd probably be fine with it.

Right.

Like, that's just the way that human beings work. So you've got to be very careful when you're pitching in the B2, B and whatever B2C environment is like you can't overdo it. You can't be like, you get all this and this the thud factor of back in the day when you used to order something online and get 17 kilograms or 20, you know, 35 pounds of stuff, like that's not good because if you're busy, like that's a nightmare. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

So you got to be very careful with how you do things. And I think a lot of people and a lot of like our competitors not to and I won't say them, but I know like one of the biggest problems that they have with their sales and if they just listen to me on this, they would all make more sales is their pitches are so long and drawn out that like they lose so many sales. And I know because I've gone into those businesses, trained their head guys, cut their pitch down and they instantly dribbled. Everyone's close, right?

Yeah.

It's crazy. So brings up another question. It's like you building that presentation with the demo or whatever you decide to call it in that process, non enterprise B2B and B2C. Where do you stand on having demonstrations, pitch decks, visual representation of what you do in that sales process?

I think if you go to go for it, like Vanessa Horn is amazing at it. Right. Because she sells for Taki, but she also sells for Simon Bowen. Simon's Bowen Modeling. Selling these models is phenomenal.

Right.

I don't really do it. I don't. I've never had to do it because I don't track. Yeah. Like, but Marco loves it. All of his selling is done with an iPad, mapping stuff out. Like I really see the value in doing it. I'm just a bit old school and I just talk people into doing stuff.

Yeah.

Now I think if you're good at it, tremendous asset. I think if you do it poorly and it looks like it was done with a 4 year old with a crayon. Like one of our old clients said us their pitch deck and it was like, who the made this?

Yeah.

Because this looks like it's like a.

Four year old you may not make.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? So it's like, you know, it needs to be good. Although like I think a really good one is really powerful. I think a really bad one is reverse.

Now just, just for clarity, like Vanessa in that, does she do that as a part of the entire sales process or does she pull out certain parts and go, now I'm going to share screen and we're going to do this part together.

Yeah, I think she does it that way. I've never been sold by her though.

Because I've seen like, we've had clients.

She does the classy clothes.

Yeah. And that whole process.

I haven't spoken to her for a while. She'd give her a call.

Like, I've had clients where clients that come to us, like, didn't end up being clients because their entire thing is like slide deck. So they're pitching the whole time from a, a PowerPoint presentation.

Yeah. You know what I mean?

And I'm speaking to a guy that, you know, wanted to work with us last week and he's like, oh, you know, we, we close over. Like, we do our sales call over the presentation. I was like, why? He goes, oh, it works really well. Like, okay, let's get into some of the numbers. Turns out they converted like 10%. I'm like, interesting. So it works really well. You're not open to changing that, but you're closing at 10%. It's like, okay, you see, see what I'm sort of coming up against here? Like, it's. I wouldn't really classify 10% as what are they sell working really well. Some sort of coaching package, right?

Yeah. If it's a coaching package, 10% is garbagio terrible. And if it's like a biz op, 10% is like, not horrible, but it's for sure not good.

Yeah.

For our Amazon offer, we're closing over 30.

We don't use. We don't need to. But I was just like. Okay, so like, you see how that's a bit of a problem, right?

No, it's very monotonous. So, like, I think one thing that I've, like, in the army, right, like they have 40 minute sessions.

Yeah.

Because the army has done extensive, extensive research on how to teach people.

Yeah, right.

Because they teach morons.

Yeah, yeah, right.

Like, so, like some of the IQ levels that you get, they're not. It's not quite an IQ level.

It's good.

There's a certain score that you have to do and do like an aptitude test. And like different jobs require different aptitudes. Right. And some of the lower ones, like one of the lowest one is like truck driving. Right. Super low.

Yeah.

Doesn't mean truck drivers are dumb. It just means for the army, they've dictated that that is a low aptitude.

You just don't need to be smart.

To do the job.

Right.

Same with artillery. Artillery, like, has the lowest point.

Ship.

Yeah.

Right.

Which is terrifying. But anyway. Yes. And so, like, they're. They have learned how to teach people very well, which is one of the reasons why I think I'm a good teacher is because we do a style that is very, like, break down.

Yeah.

Like this. Do that. That's what it's called. And so 40 minutes was the limit that the military, Australian military, dictated anyone could pay attention for.

Right.

And there's, like, limits to how much of that can be PowerPoint.

Yeah.

Specifically limits. And it's like, I don't remember what it was, but I think it was like seven or 12 meeting.

So I'm letting them know.

Yeah, it's like seven or 12 minutes at a time. Like, you couldn't have more than a certain amount of slides per presentation, so you couldn't do what we call Death by Light Pro.

Right.

And the reason for that is because people just tune out. So I think if you're just like. It's very difficult because there's, like, a certain monotony to, like, changing slides, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

And then, like, if all you're doing is, like, just showing people slides, like, it's very difficult for you to create any meaningful connection with that person.

Yeah.

But I think there is real validity in having a really good presentation if you have a really good one, which is, like, short, sharp, to the point. Like, I think it's a. I think it can make a shitty salesperson pretty successful.

Yeah. Yeah.

Anyway, the guy was like, I'm like, well, so, like, if we could close at a higher rate than that and not use those slides, is that something you'd be open to? Is like, oh, no, this is like the way that we do it. I'm like, okay, well, then we can work together.

Good day, sir.

Yeah, good day. Because, like, when you're forced to use that presentation, you're forced to go through each of those slides and you may not agree with the way that they're presented as the salesperson, that may interrupt your flow. It may have so many negative connotations, and you end up just skipping stuff. Then all of a sudden, the prospects will go, why are we skipping that slide? Oh, it's not important. Why is the. Is it that.

You know what I mean?

And then there's instant sales process. Like, these guys can't even put together a proper slide deck. How are they going to put together a service?

Yeah, yeah. So I think, like, when it's done well, it's good. I think when it's done bad. I think when it's done Well, I think at 10%, if you're selling a coaching offer, you'd really need to have a look at your slide deck. So if those guys listen. Yeah, it's probably professionally made. Yeah. Get a graphic designer to go through.

It and just, like, read every deck and say the same way that, like, we teach to evaluate your script. Like, ask every question that you ask. Evaluate. What is the purpose of this question and does it lead closer towards my goal? You need to go through that process and look at every single slide. Does this flow from the last one to the next one? Is there a point? Is there an. Am I getting what I want from this slide? Is there eliciting something?

Yeah.

If the answer is no, then cut those slides out there.

I think, yeah. Presentative selling is. It's pretty garbage.

Yeah.

I don't think you have the ability to build any consequence to it. And I believe that really what makes people buy is a consequence.

Because conversations flow.

Right.

You can't flow in a presentation, you know, like a direct presentation.

You call me the flow master.

I get it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Well, anyway, like, it's pretty straightforward, like B2, B2, B6 or anything else that you want to talk about regarding that.

Not really. Like, I think, like, as. As a salesperson, career progresses. Like, I think one thing that I've really been focusing from a sales management, even like a recruitment standpoint from when.

We do some recruitment is better guys want bigger deals.

Like, you know, you can't pigeonhole a salesperson in a position because they're good at sales. Right. Like, if, like, one of the biggest, worst decisions that I could make is take someone like Marco, who we've recently pretty much taken off sales calls. He's doing some B2B stuff, but, like, he's really more strategic managing. He's still doing sales, but, you know, it's like, if I was just to pigeonholed him, I could just put him in Jeremy's account. I could honestly just fill him up with 50 calls a week. He would close 45 of them. We take very large commissions on that. We would make a load of money.

But he had it eventually.

Yeah, he would get bored of it. Be a lack of fulfillment there. And so, like, when I'm placing salespeople or into an. Into a business, or when I'm, you know, doing sales for people, like, and when we have our own salespeople, I need to understand the career path of that salesperson because, like, that salesperson's career is more important in, like, in the long term. If you want to keep that person, we want to be able to make them happy and fulfill them. So, like, I need to make sure that, like, I'm, I'm managing that process. And B2B is a good next step for people towards management or towards. Because it's a more complicated sales environment, there's more things to think about, it's more interesting. The deals are bigger, the commissions are bigger, the sales cycle is slower. But yeah, so I think it's a good, like, it's a good transition phase for someone to go through if they're looking to sort of, like, stay in the realm of sales, but potentially not.