CLOSED DOOR SESSION: 7 Figure Sales Reps Objection Handling [LIVE]
Matt Ryder and other seven-figure sales reps run live role-plays to show how they handle client objections. They coach through real scenarios, breaking down what works when a prospect says no.
All right, Matt, so do you feel like this could be the answer for you?
Are you coming in?
Yeah, man.
It feels like it could be good to go. It sort of sounds like, you know, potentially what I'm looking for, I think, at this stage.
Right.
Well, why do you think it is, though?
Well, I think that the way that, you know, the program shaped and I guess the support that we. That we get, I think that work.
And why is the support aspect important to you now, though?
I think I've been trying it for a while and just kind of want to be able to, I think, with the right, I guess, boost or the right people keeping us accountable and having that person to ask, I think that would be really beneficial to the business.
Right, right. That makes sense. And do you feel like, based on what we've discussed, like, having that accountability, having that support network of someone actually holding your hand every step of the way, like, do you feel like this is going to get you from where you are to, you know, where you want to be in the next 12 months?
Yeah, I mean. Yeah, I think so. You know what I mean? I think it definitely could. I think it definitely could benefit us. I think, you know, I think if we can. If we can make sure that we have the time set aside and obviously the budget and everything, that that works, then we can really do what we needed to do.
Right.
And then, like, when you say that the time set aside, you just don't sound too certain. Can you tell me what you mean by that?
Yeah, obviously, like, a lot of moving parts in business want to make sure that we can utilize everything to the best degree and. Yeah, just make sure that, you know, if we do this, we do it 100%.
Yeah, for sure. And if you're not going to do it 100%, well, you're definitely not going to get the results. Right. But I guess when it comes to.
The time, time out for a second. That's interesting to say. Why'd you say that?
What did I just say?
I can't remember.
If you're not going to do it 100, you're not going to get a result. How does that benefit you in the long run?
Yeah.
People don't nobody do things.
You can't do anything.
No.
Yeah. All right, good point.
So, like, what? You know, I always challenge that perspective.
Okay, great.
And I say, like, well, you know, like, I. I guess I understand, but there's so many. We are being put in different directions. Like, can you give 100 to your kids? Can you give 100 the answer is no. But, you know, all we can really try and do is put ourselves in the best position to be able to succeed. And you know, I'm a big believer in, hey, man, doing it 50 is better than zero, right?
Yeah.
Get the buy in on that and then I come back.
Good.
Right. Because I don't want them to commit to doing something 100 because I'm putting an obstacle in their way.
Yeah, that makes sense. So I just realized what I was trying to do there.
Right.
We trying to, I was trying to.
Logic trap you by going down the route because in my pitch, I say in your first 90 days, our aim is to get you an extra 10 to 15 hours back in time. So I'm trying to, I'm trying to sell you on the logic of actually doing this gets you back more time. Yeah, but I, Yeah, I've never thought of it from that way, so that.
Yeah.
Makes so much sense. Well, the way I would have done it, the time.
Right.
They were talking about time. Yeah, yeah, I can. Let's roll it. I like it.
Yeah.
So I'm doing you.
Yeah.
All right. So I mean, pretty much we pretty much cover all the basic of how the program works and also for helping with your cell structure, as you mentioned, I guess, like, overall, like, how do you, like how do you feel about the structure?
Yeah, I think it makes sense though.
Like, do you feel this could be the answer for you though?
Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, I think so. I think obviously there's, you know, I have to look into a little bit.
More and more deeply, but yeah, yeah, we can definitely do that. But I guess why religion? You felt that way though?
Yeah, I guess, like, obviously you guys have, you know, proven success and you know, the structure has worked for other people, so.
And if you feel that we've proven success, I guess like what helps, you have to look deeply inside. So. But just to see if I can help though.
Yeah, I guess that is.
Yeah.
I'm looking for an excuse, I guess. I guess. Yeah. You know, I think the real thing is I just want to like, you know, it's one of those things where I just need to really sit down and make sure that it's going to work for me right now because, you know, like, I don't have that many leads and just want to make sure that.
I mean, I didn't know you were standing, so. But I just want to give you an eye type, I guess, like when you mentioned sit down just to understand really the thoughts process that you have. Like, give me an idea like what's in the equation that you're looking for. They can actually get you to do it either today, tomorrow or next month. Like what's the main element you're looking for?
I guess I just want to make sure that I can really. It's going to work for me.
Right. I mean, and we all want to do that, but. So you're looking for clarity, right?
Yeah.
And that's your perspective, but you're going saying, oh, like what clarity really looks like. Like you if tomorrow you want to go to the beach, you never gonna know how it looks like until you actually get there. Right?
Yeah.
So what I'm asking we're not going to wear the channel. So what I'm asking is like what's the parameter that actually is going to get you to understand if it works for you?
Yeah, I guess. I guess there isn't one. I guess I can't know.
You can know until you don't.
What's that?
You cannot know it until you don't.
Until I do it.
Right. So let's look into it, I guess like why you feel that you have to know if it works before you actually try it.
Yeah, I guess because it's a big investment. So I want to make like I know I can never know for sure.
But it's big in size.
I want to make sure that, you know, I guess I'm investing my money.
In the right area and that's not a problem. Now we can talk about the investment or we can talk about also the clarity, if it works or not. Now let's go first on the investment. Right. When you mention is a lot, a lot in compared to what?
Actually I guess in compared to less.
Right, compared to less. But instead of looking and I show you, this has a different perspective. Like if I'm coming from the same side of the table that you are. Right. Give me an idea. Like does it really matter how much we put down if what is gonna give us back is what you exactly looking for or either close?
Yeah, I mean I guess if I can put in one and get out 10, it's a no brainer.
So it comes down to the perspective you see, like you were saying before, right. So you're seeing the perspective that you're carrying around is like you want to look into clarity if you want to do it or not, even if it works for yourself. But you're never going to know why. Because right now you're looking more about what you put in now putting down rather than what you're going to gain later, which is all a concept.
I couldn't.
Yeah.
So what he did really well there.
Yeah.
Was. Shaped me directly into the one that he wanted.
Yeah, yeah.
Right. So that's. I think, to me, that's the key to super high quality objection handling is shape, is putting me in that funnel of like, you're gonna handle it. You're gonna. You're actually giving me this objection.
Yeah.
And then you. You get them to believe that that's the objection, which essentially it is. And then you get really good at handling the one way, you know.
Yeah, that's good, man.
Nice. Yeah, that was tough. I wouldn't. I was trying to mentor them. Gymnastics out of it, but it was a tough one. So. Because I was put into a box where it was like, I had to agree on facts. And the facts are, you never know someone's going to work until you do it. So if you're consistently making decisions with that perspective, you can never do anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so that's why I like that perspective reframe so much, because it's so easy for you to play with.
Yeah.
And you can take any decision that they're making, and you can just kind of loop it around to what you want it to be.
Yep.
You know, the interruptions were really good. Like, that's a really key thing, like stopping the person from finishing the thought pattern.
Yep.
Sit down, buddy. I'm doing a round table, you know, but I think, like. So do you want to go again?
Yeah.
Yeah, you go again.
So, Matt, I guess. Do you feel like this could be the answer for you?
Yeah, I think it's good, you know, I think, you know, at this stage, you know, I really want to make sure, you know, have a good 24 hours.
Yeah.
Why do you think it could be the answer for you, though?
Yeah, well, I guess, you know, you guys seem to have a proven track record. You kind of know what you're doing from everything that you've laid out.
Yeah.
But besides all, you know, the proven track record, besides our history of doing this for many years, besides all that flashy stuff, based on what I discussed, what do you think is the most benefit for you getting from where you are to where you want to go?
Yeah, I think it's that accountability that you get.
And why is having that accountability? Why is that important?
Yeah, I think it's just really about making sure that we have the right people guiding us. And, you know, obviously, we've made some mistakes in the past, which is why I Don't want to make mistakes again in the future and so.
Right, for sure. And I guess how would you know that you do have the right people guiding you?
Yeah, yeah, I guess, you know, I guess it's just about people who have, you know, gone down the road before. Right. You know, the best navigator is the one that can just tell you what potholes to miss.
Right.
And I guess we all kind of see things from our perspective. Right. So is that the perspective that you have in order to get where you need to go? You need to know that the person guiding you has essentially done it before.
Yeah, I think that that would make. That makes it a lot easier for me to kind of, you know, go forward with the knowledge that's gonna work.
Right. So, like, based on what you're seeing here, I guess, like, do you feel like having someone that's been there, done that, and held other people by the hand, like, do you feel like someone helping somebody else means you're gonna get there bit lost?
Are you lost?
Yeah, I'm a bit lost. Yeah.
I'm trying to get it back to.
Yeah, I think what happened is you used a little bit.
Yeah, yeah.
I threw out a couple of rakes and stepped up one of them.
Yeah. Okay.
But you use the perspective reframe too early.
Yeah. Right.
So you need to, like, come to a conclusion of, like, of this little. Okay. So, like, because you can. That's totally fine to have someone, like what I said is totally fine. Like, okay, that makes sense. You feel like if you have someone there holding your hand, who's been there, done that, you feel like you can be successful. Okay, that's perfect. Okay. And you know what I mean? So that's fine because that's what the coaching is, as people who have helped and guide. So there's really no downside to that.
Yeah.
You know what I mean? So I would then go like, I would try and get more specifics about, like, what the hand holding looks like.
Yeah. Right.
And then, like, do you feel like you have that within this from what I explained to you, kind of go in depth and get. Try and get more buy in, then ask for the sale.
Yeah.
Then go for the perspective reframe. Otherwise you're kind of handling something that hasn't happened yet. And then you put yourself in a spot where now you have to like double speak yourself.
Yeah.
And then I pick up on what you're doing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That makes sense.
Yeah.
Can I give you a suggestion?
Please.
But if you don't, like, I Write down things that I know that I'm going to use.
Right, yeah.
Just like, for example, before you were talking about clarity. It's like, welcome to my world thinking about credit song that doesn't exist because you dictate clarity. Right. So I put down cl, which is clarity. I was like, okay, that's not problem. That is what I'm going to talk about. So I'm fairly concentrated. But sometimes you might go like, well, we don't have the money because we need to go in Hawaii. And it goes like. So it's so fast for interrupt that I have to start writing things down very quick. But at least I know what I'm talking about, because otherwise you just overcome the last things you had is never the right one.
I think what you did is you tried to do something. So you had a hammer and you were looking for a nail.
Yeah.
Pretty much makes sense.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I'll kind of show you. I'll sell you if you want, and I'll finish with a pitch, but. All right, Anthony, So does that. Does that structure that I put together, does that kind of make sense for you?
Yeah, yeah.
And is there anything. I guess, does that feel like it could, like, as a whole, does it feel like it could be the answer for you at the moment?
Yeah, I think it definitely is.
Is there any particular reason, like, why you feel that way?
I think the support element and, you know, having. Having a coach I can speak to every 90 days to give me a new plan. Yeah, I think that's going to work for me. It now I just want to have 24 hours, I'd say, just. Just to make sure that is the support.
Yeah, that makes sense. And I guess. Is there anything besides what you just said, is there anything specific that you feel like is, like the key to the castle for you to make sure that you comfortably get from where you are to where you want to go.
Just. Just knowing that, you know, it works, essentially, and, you know, just knowing that other people are getting the results from it, I would say.
Okay, so. So the specifics of what I've gone through, you feel like those testimonials and I guess just the knowledge that. That there's a lot of people who have kind of walked the path before you is what you feel like is going to give you the confidence to move forward?
Yeah, just.
Just someone to turn to when I run into a challenge. So I know it's going to happen.
And I'm going to run to Roadblock.
Just.
Just knowing that someone's Going to be there to help guide me when I hit those obstacles.
Okay.
Kind of hold you accountable, maybe slap your hand a little bit, make sure that you kind of.
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.
I think. I think it's important to know as well, like, when we're going into a coaching situation, right? Like, it's important for us to kind of have the understanding that, like, coaching is easy. When it's easy, coaching can be hard when it's hard. And our job is to be kind of like a velvet sledgehammer. You know what I mean? And we're here to kind of guide you, and it's like, man, when it's all good, we're all fucking high fives and bum taps, right? But when it's bad and when you get tired and it's like, you know, quotes piling up and this is happening, this is happening, like. And you stop doing the things that are putting you on the path to get you where you want to go. That's where we come in and we actually go to work and we use that sledgehammer, that crowbar, to realign you back on track. Does that make sense?
Yeah, that makes sense.
Just before we go any further, just want to make sure that you're actually open and okay with being held accountable in that manner.
Yeah, definitely. Okay.
Any reason why? Well, I need it.
I haven't been able to do this in 10 years, so I need to change something.
Okay. Okay. That sort of makes sense. So from here, dude, I don't have much else for you. All we really need to do is organize a payment. We can do that with a credit or debit card. It's totally up to you. Then from there, we organize your onboarding, we get you introduced to your coach, we put you into the program, and we actually start the process of freeing up your time and, God forbid, putting you in a position where you can take a holiday with your family. Does that sound good to you?
Yeah, man, that sounds perfect. So I think if you just contact me in two days.
Yeah.
Then we'll.
Yeah, we'll kind of just. Just get things going there. But, yeah, this is.
This all sounds good. Okay, awesome. And just so I'm clear, like, what is it that you want to kind of address over the next 48 hours?
I just. Just.
I just make decisions that way. No, I've given me a lot to go through here. I just want to make sure that I make the right decision and just.
Just. Are you like. I guess it's kind of a cheesy question. Scale of 1 to 10, 1 being like, like unhappy and then sort of really wanting to make a change. And 10, being like, this is your ideal lifestyle. Where are you at with your business right now?
Probably at four.
A four. Okay. Okay. That makes sense. And I guess, did you feel like I hate the word mindset? Do you feel like that kind of mindset can kind of, I guess, shape the way that we make decisions?
Definitely.
And are you happy to allow the mindset that's gotten you over the last 10 years to be a four in your business to continually shape your results and your outcome moving forward?
No.
Why not? So I'm all, what does that mean?
You know, I'm.
I'm, you know, 50, just 10, 50 years old and you're a grandpa.
I do that.
Yeah.
You know, just turn 50 and, you know, I want more money in my life, and that's why I'm seeking you.
Yeah.
And so if that decision making process, that's. That's defaulting you right now to want to wait, which, Which I understand, right. Because we all make decisions based on our perspective. The problem is if we constantly make decisions based off our current perspective, it's very difficult for us to put ourselves in a better position.
Right.
So if I can kind of explain. If you picture yourself on an island surrounded by water, right? You're there, like you're on an island and it's, you know, 17.1 nautical miles around you and all you can see is water. Every single decision that you make is going to be based on the fact that you're on an island surrounded by water.
Right.
Now the problem is, in order to kind of see the world for it is to be able to get the view, you know, the penthouse view or whatever. We have to be, I don't know, like somewhere high, like on top of a mountain or something, Right. So, you know, your. The decisions that you make on top of Everest, given the fact that your input is so much greater, is going to be different than the guy that's just surrounded by water. And there's a couple of really difficult choices that need to be made to get from the guy who's down there with limited perspective to the guy who's.
Up there.
And they're on another one. I like, they're really hard. And this is why. This is all part of the process. And, like, I'm trying to hold you accountable to that process. Right. So step one is that you have to believe the mountains there and you're here, so, like, we can tick that box so well. Done. Like you've taken the first step.
Right.
The second one is like, it's like picking a direction. It's incredibly difficult to do because you can't see it.
Right.
And so be like bungee jumping, blindfolded, you know?
Yeah.
I mean, like, it's a scary decision in the day. You're still strapped in, you're good to go. Like, it's no different when you're blindfolded or whether you can see. It's just a perception thing.
You know what I mean? Yeah.
And so the third and most difficult is once you pick the direction is to actually start walking. And most people. And if you were on that island, you would just see a lot of people on the edge of that island. I mean, but they don't make a commitment to actually start walking because that's the scary part. Because what if you drown? And you might. Do you know what I mean? But the only thing that I can know is that the only way that we can put ourselves in the best position to be able to get to the mountain is just to start fucking walking, bro. So let me ask you a question. Like what? Like what do you need to do to put yourself in the best position to be able to work less hours, start prioritizing your family and actually start moving on this?
Let's do it, man.
Gonna do it. Let's do it. Do it. Ain't nothing too good to do it. Just do it.
Let's go.
Let's go. Sweet.
Let's do it.
Good.
Yeah, that just keep on tough spot. And then from there if you were to go back through another objection. Yeah, I would go through. Okay, like that makes sense. I would then kind of talk to them about that decision making process. I would then loop it back around too. So what do you need to do to put yourself in the best position to be able to. And then I would insert them more definite goals here. I kept it quite vague. Yeah, the next goal would be really defined and it would be like to get to that 15 to that 30 hour work week to stop spending an extra 30 hours.
Right.
Which if you have a look at that, is a full work week every single week.
Yeah.
That's 48 weeks a year that you're not spending with your family. That's one year every year when your kid is 40, you would have missed out on a minimum of 20 years. Years in their life. So what do you need to do to make sure that you're actually there doing the things you need to do, not just sitting up at 11 o' clock at night doing quotes, right. Then I can reframe them again. The last one, which is like the Hail Mary is like, what do you need to do so that when you go to bed tonight, you know you're in the best position to be able to be the best dad, the best.
Leader, the best this.
And actually for God sake, do something about your problems. And that's like when they really pitch themselves and then they go, fuck, I have to do it. Like they have to do it that way. Yeah, that's good, man. Yeah, so see how like. So I kind of monologue a railroad you a bit.
Yeah.
I get you to agree to my perspective, I get you to agree to my basics and then I just fucking railroad you y with like an analogy and I say it in a very specific way and just like get by in the whole time.
Yeah.
And try and keep the engagement.
Yeah, yeah.
And also I feel, to be honest with you, I feel like a star is more congruent with the yours because he has an authority. I think he doesn't need to say an authority frame, but he sets it up like. Yeah, I can feel it.
How do you.
Yeah, how do you shift if they're not giving you that constant agreement in your questions?
You can just like, I mean it's. To be honest, it's never happened. Everyone's pretty on board because like we all make decisions based on perspective. Everyone can agree with that. Like it's hard to say no.
Yeah.
You know what I mean? And then I preambled that with the mindset.
Right?
So based off, like they're all be different based off what you were telling me. I was like, sweet, this stinks of a think is to think about it. And it's, you know what I mean? There was no money, no nothing. It was straight think about it. So I was like, like, right, how do I, like how do I drop the sledgehammer on this as fast as possible? And so it's like if I can get them to agree that their decision making process has caused them to be where they are now. If you would have said something like a 7, if you'd have gone, well, I'm a 7, I would have gone, okay, if you're a 7, can you explain to me what a 10 is? The 10 would have been a huge gap and I would have gone, dude, if that's a 10 and you're a 7, like that's not a very big gap. What the fuck is a six?
Right?
And they go, I guess you run more of A four. I go, all right, cool. How much longer do you want to be a four?
Right.
So it allows me to kind of like drop the hammers on them and I get so like I'm setting up like three or four doors behind me that I'm just closing and each door is getting me like another few feet towards the finish line. So that one works really well. The one to ten. One.
Yeah.
Because I was like, like I felt like if I just went into the. The island analogy straight away, like I didn't have enough because I didn't have the sales call.
Yep.
To back onto, you know, I mean, so when you're going through to role play, like kind of in order to give you less outs.
Yeah.
I need to really shut all the doors, you know. Whereas if you've done consequence questions, you could maybe skip some of those steps.
Yeah.
But if you feel like someone is giving you really wishy washy stuff, that 1 to 10 thing is super powerful. Really, really smash from that. Like, where are you doing, like with your life and your relationship and what you get right now? Where are you 1 to 10? And do you feel like mindset can affect decision making? Sweet. And do you want that decision making process, the mindset that you have to shape your results moving forward? No, I don't. Why not? Okay, perfect. You know what I mean? And then I can go straight into my perspective. Well, that, you know, makes sense because we're all making decisions based on our perspective. Sweet. Straight into an analogy. And I'm pretty much good to go. Like, not many people get into those analogies and get out. I reckon I've had one or two people that haven't said yes once I've gone all the way through that sequence.
Yeah, yeah.
It's powerful, it's good.
What do you do in that case? If someone said great, because I've been getting a few of these and it's probably preempting a few people saying, let's great. Can I look at the contract or what can you show me? I've got competitors showing me for Amazon.
For example, I guess. Give me an idea. Like, what would you like to see in the contract?
Just to make sure that you guys are saying what you do and you.
Know, maybe let's say different to what I had right now. Different What I said on this meeting. Like, what would you like to see different?
Oh, just that everything they're saying that I verified in writing because it's all good.
Okay. That makes a lot of sense and I guess. Why would you Expect something different.
Oh, well, look, I've been in the case before. I trust you, Mark. I've had a good call. But, you know, I don't want to be in a spot where what you say is not reflecting reality. So I'd like to say document.
Okay, Right. That makes sense. If you don't mind. Out of curiosity, where are you getting that from?
It's just the way like I've always had the.
Keep going.
So overweight. Like it's just a way to business.
Right.
So I need to see everything written down. I've had people in the past that said, you know, promise the world.
All right, so you use your experience submitting a judgment.
Yeah, it's a congruency thing to make sure that I'm doing. I'm ticking the boxes that I need.
It's just how.
Yeah.
So I mean having a nice level congruency is great. So I really appreciate you saying that. Now you mentioned though like you had a kind of dispense in the past. Now let me ask though, like since that experience, like how that experience has been affecting your decision making process.
Oh, it's just made me. It's actually made me more clever. More things that I haven't done. Things that I'm glad I didn't because the details weren't there. You know what I mean? So it's protected me from making some decisions. If I did that decision, if I jumped into it, I would have gone. It actually would have been bad for me.
That's your perspective, right?
That's. Well, that's, that's exactly what, that's what I've experienced.
Well, what if I show you another kind of not perspective, but kind of I make a suggestion. What if like the decision making process or something doesn't really change the way how things are? And I give you an example, right? Like see it as the gold rush, like business opportunity, like Amazon is kind of things. This works like this. If you would have done it 5 years ago, right now your ROI is being 3x would be 10x. Right? So if you would be. If you would have been thinking about it 10 years ago and you would have done it today, technically you would have lost a 7x. What I'm trying to get to the point is this one. There's always two types of people, but the first person is that in the ghostwriter, doesn't matter contract agreement is a commitment level or changing what doesn't work, which is the most important aspect of getting results. Right. And after that is the 48 Hours guy he always comes 48 hours late. He always comes a week late, one year late, a month late.
Why?
Because he has to be able to find commitment in something that is far away from what he's done. So you making a decision for your own business, he has not by, is not dictated by a piece of paper or your level of commitment of changing things. So what I'm asking is this is like do you want to be the guy that comes with 48 hours of delay that is losing 2x or 3x, or you want to be actually the guy that is willing to change something that doesn't work? That's the reality of things after, if the paper are not the way you want it, we can change it. But what I'm looking for is commitment. So the real question is, are you committed to change though?
I definitely committed. That's what I'm definitely right.
So if you're definitely committed to change, the first step is start making that change rather than say that you are. So if you're open to. What we could do is generally we draft down deposit. Just forget that commitment.
Right.
The deposit is generally 10% of the overall. So it's a 30k. Some will be 3k. Of course it's fully refundable in based on what you've seen on the agreement. But at least you put yourself in a position when you go to bed tonight, say I've done something rather than being like the same guy, which is like I do it into 48 hours. Maybe in 48 hours I'm going to come late and then you're going to get an roi.
Why?
Because the guy that got the first place, the action figure is that one that actually gets the result. Would you be open to that? Yeah, give me a hard time. Tell me. No.
Look, look, I'm open to that and I hear where you can't go. If you want me to be like.
I've heard, yeah, yeah, go ahead.
But I just, I just want to see something right. Like I just find it odd. Hasn't anyone else asked you that they want to see some contracts or something document before I just give a credit card.
Yeah, absolutely. I'm not saying that what you're saying is completely wrong. Don't get me wrong. Yeah, I agree at some sort of level. Maybe we're talking about two different metrics because the perception that you have is more likely. Okay, I want to be able to see something, forget and do what I want to do. What I'm talking about is like I would love for you to have the commitment on your own goals, because that's the most important things for get actually your results. Because if you're not committed to change and I'm the first one that tells you, man, don't do it.
And that's what I'm saying, like I want to do it. I just want to see.
Right. So if you really want to do it.
Yeah.
What do you feel is the best next step for you beside the agreement?
Well, the next step, if. If I can't see the agreement, that's.
Where I'm beside the agreement.
There's nothing else stopping it apart from the.
That's it.
Right. So what I think I would suggest, like I was saying before, is I will send you agreement over. Right. Either like straight away after go. It's just the logistic of it. You know how these implant things goes on just then the, the. Just the idea of be able to put a foot inside the door because he gets you into a position where you actually getting committed to the way how you want. Would you be open to that? Yeah, but we'll go, come on, man. Why you got all of.
It's amazing hearing that on the other end like it is. It's incredible.
The level skill here is just. I think one thing as well is make sure you never say the word contract.
Yeah.
It's terms of service.
Yeah, yeah.
Service agreement, I use.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, otherwise it's.
If I say contract, I made a big mistake. I've drum that in.
Yeah.
Service agreement agreements.
Yeah.
It's just an agreement and at that point it's more. It's those stubborn pricks that you get that goes, man, I just want to look like.
Yeah.
Hearing how you say, you say, are.
You on zoom now? You on zoom may have a copy with you. Just go home, have a copy with you. Take them through the Doctor.
Are they that stubborn or is that.
A reasonable thing to ask? It's semi reasonable. Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's also. It's like he says, they're stubborn pricks.
Right? Yeah.
So the only things you want to. You want to ask them is, is that the way how you make decision? Oh, yeah. And it's always been working. Right. But do you. Do you really feel that the equation of you getting results out of stuff is because you look for an even free. That was obviously because you were committed to actually get done, you know, like.
Yeah.
What's the sense of that?
Yeah, it's a. It's a tough one, especially if you think it's fair enough. You think it's Fair enough. You're gonna. You didn't get into it. So I think like with that one in particular, like because it is a big investment, it's done for you. I also think it's probably a little bit fair enough. They want to see a contract. It's not a coaching program. It's paid in full. Well like all that kind of stuff. So I would have. Hey, here's the terms of service. Like let's just get it up and go through it. Even if you have like an antiquated version like this is a highlight, like highlight certain parts of it that you really want to go through. Don't highlight parts.
No guarantees.
But there are no guarantees, right? That's a really easy thing. People say guarantees to go well. How can I guarantee that? You know, walk out of your front door tomorrow, get hit by a bus.
Right.
I can't. There are no guarantees in life. All we can do is put ourselves in in the best position possible to be able to achieve the outcome. And that pretty much diffuses every guarantee.
Like.
Well yeah, that makes sense.
See I've got about at the moment he's given us a five grand deposit already. He's now come back saying that the contract or the agreement isn't because there's not enough meat on there that shows exactly what you're going to know.
It's very broad.
It's very kind of he's saying that's like I want something more in writing to. That's what he's come back a couple of times. I. I've seen send him an email. This is what we do la la. Because I just want to say that we're in the store that I've got just going through, you know, things like there's not not enough in agreement that I'm confident that you contractually going to.
Do what you said.
That's what he just come back after he's given five grand all ready to go. That's his own come back in his mind.
Yeah, I think that that's, you know, those are logistical things that are fair enough, you've done your part and you know, Eileen or whoever needs to come back and. And give something more concrete all the time. Contracts are intentionally vague. Like the people who write the contracts are always going to put the contracts.
In their favor correctness.
It's just kind of the way it is also for done for you stuff. It's tricky at the best of times anyway. Like it's also with coaching programs because like at any stage whenever you offer anything like Whenever we talk about results, people are immediately intelligent. 100% refund. Even like at the end of 12 months coaching program terms. If they go, oh, somebody at the start told me I would do this. That didn't happen. 100 refund. That's how the government works.
Right.
Like so terms of service are worthless essentially.
But if you payments, you have a refund.
Yeah, well that's what you don't want to preempt them. So put on the card, you're protected, you're just going to get a re. You're just going to get a charge markdown.
Yeah.
If that was me out of debt, I would go into the sales call on an investment with the intention to read that contract and fully analyze it.
Before I would pay deposit. But I wouldn't pay for the whole.
Amount without thoroughly going through that because it is an roi. But if you were good enough, you would make me forget that I thought about that and I'd sign up.
Yeah, that's, that's a good point.
Yeah.
If you had mark on there, it's just, it's relentless.
It's just, it's a hard one too. This guy's got his partner, he's, he's partnered in the background funding and I'm going through it. So that's just another thing altogether. I had a funny one this morning, a lady saying, look, I've done a few of these calls. You sound right. And then, yeah, that's a problem, that's.
A problem, that's a problem.
But I found out that she goes, they all want ownership. They're not giving me ownership. They're all charging 30 to 50%, all.
These sort of stuff.
So now that she goes, that's great. Well show me. Look, they showed stores. I went on a present.
We did a things for that we done like, well, I mean the logistic is different for any kind of stuff. Right. But let's put that aside because that's not really the equation of getting the results. So most of the times. But it's more really understanding really what's the approach that you're having in towards opening a store.
So why would you replicate an unsuccessful.
Strategy, just put everything different.
If that didn't work for you and that wasn't enough to convince you, then why would I do the same?
I said, obviously you come here, you've then looked working, you. Yeah, you would have done something if it fit your criteria, you would have moved forward, right?
Yes.
Yeah. You go, okay, well what, what aspects didn't you like about it to Try to get what you didn't want and then sell against that later on.
No, what I would have done is that I would have tucked that kind of mindset. So I would have done like, okay, so give me an idea. I mean out of 20 there is always nothing is perfect in life. Right? Would you agree with that? Yes. So out of 20 there is always one that stands out. And I'm not telling you there has to be me.
Right.
But it's really understanding what's the element to get you to 30k is not the vehicle is you pick for it. But at some point you're going to overwhelm it which is like looking for more things just because you don't like one. Page. So what I'm trying to say is like what counts most of the times is actually getting done in a proper way. Because nothing is 100% like you were saying before. So I guess the right question is like are you willing to do it at Haiti? Page said if you're not willing that I tell you, well, you're looking for perfection. Perfection doesn't exist. So you have a false like you see the guy there, there you building a false or something that doesn't exist around here.
Yeah. So you basically say you need to be willing when you're doing this research that the reasoning want to move forward potential is that it's not. Nothing's going to tip all your boxes. But what are the main ones that you want?
See if that you know, would you.
Down to that or what. I think you're missing the trick. You don't want to have an answer for every objection.
Exactly.
You want to have an ability to funnel them into one particular way. That's, that's, that's the key. The key is the funnel. Like you need to, you need to push them into one way of doing things. So with that one, it's perspective for perfect. Because we all make decisions based on our perspective. Right. If it's mindset, if it's leadership, if it's whatever, like whatever kind of little like twist you can put on it. Because it's essentially like it's a fear based thing. If they've had multiple calls, then they haven't moved forward because of fear. You know what I mean? And so it's like, okay, let's just overcome the fear. Let's get them to do the action. And this is all sales. And this is when sales goes away from like doing a program. It's just doing an action required to get an outcome. That's it. That's all sales is. So it's like the whole. If your whole, like, mentality is just around, like, what do you need to do to get your outcome? And, like, that's why the pitch is set up in a way where it gets a lot of buy in.
Right.
And that's why, like, we. We. The way you structure the pillar is like, this is the feature, this is the benefit. This is the specific problem it solves for you.
Right.
If you're struggling with that, there are some things you can do. Like, you can insert certain, like, words, right. Like hamster wheel or something like that. You're like, oh, yeah, well, like, let's say. Let's say someone like, man, I'm struggling to get to the next level. Like, what do you mean, the next level? I really want to get my income.
From here to here.
Okay. How long have you been trying that? Okay, I've been trying it for five years. So. So it's kind of like you're on a bit of a hamster wheel. Yes. What do you mean when you say you're on a hamster wheel?
Right.
And then they go, oh, that means this. Then I can attach my pitch. I can say, so what we do to get you from here to here is we do this. The reason why we do that is this because you know how you said you're on a bit of a hamster wheel?
Yeah.
Well, that's why we do that. So you can, like, you can make it seem tailored by, like, putting words into their mouth and then making them justify the words that you put in their mouth. And then that's how you have, like, a really tailored pitch that's completely generic.
Yeah.
I don't want to step on this, but I want to give you one thing, and that's super common. It's like, a lot of people trying to find an answer or any question. I don't have it. Especially when I do B2B. I need so that I don't even know. Sometimes I don't even know what the we're talking about.
When you're selling.
Yeah.
Like, the aspect of like, I sold.
A company for Silver Belt. I thought they were doing my thing. I realized that five minutes into the last call, I already had two calls with them. From the pain points and everything. I have no idea. Yeah.
Turns out they're a German tech salesman. It's true.
I swear it's true. But because I'm not trying to, like, I'm not trying to find an answer to any question, probably that is a bad Example. But when someone tells you like I really want one on one. Well, it was like, why would you like realistically, the coach that is going to give you the one on one is the one that they ask time because there's no clients.
Yes, that's right.
Right. So. And it's not that that comes far from me logically thinking about it. When I saw you into the npg, right. You're saying, oh, are you going to problem say what? 111 journey. You got a group calls anyway. So you got a 80% right. Same things for him, right. You've done the one on one with Jeremy. He might have wanted to have voxis group calls like we do now. Yeah, he got it at 60%. It doesn't matter the part time ticks. You do it, you grab three or four things, you get out of there. I had a chat in the dinner with G and P, which are true. Amazing guys, man. They pass some plan to coach with everyone. They got so much of an arrival because they went in, grab three or four things and got them done. Put them in the business right now that I'm. I don't know the entire business, but they got my one from my structure, the 10k, the remain investment like three weeks out, like two weeks after. Why? Because they start building calls.
It's a good friend.
Yeah. So when I, when I try to find another call rejection to someone, I don't have to go that fellow thinking, okay, what Michael will say or what Steve would say. I was like, okay, what, what the. Like what. What are you saying? Compared the experience that I had. What is realistic way to say?
Oh.
And I said just for me. Great that you see me this morning. You know when I was going to come with the guy, I told him like, listen, I know what that means. Burn your house on I still change the entire city for no reason. Left the filming behind it. But I had to do it. I had to do it, I had to do it. Just there's no doubt. But that is for me, the sales call when I'm telling you like it doesn't matter how much debt you have because you can stare at that debt for 10 years, but it matters how you're getting, how you're going to get out of it. And if you don't find a plan for going to get out of it, you're still going to go pay other like we done two months ago. You still. I used the only things you're gonna have before you were 40, now you're 60.
So it's like, if you're gonna eat, don't nibble.
Yeah. That comes with that comes from my own experience. Right. When I do like, oh, I need to find more. He's like, no, man, I need to find skills. That's why you see me read a lot, right? Me already anymore. I ain't getting back there. So I don't have to tell people something so far away from their experience. And that's why the most that we're talking, the successful sales people that I've seen are people that. No, you can sell them into everything because they got no limitation. You can't sum it into everything. Everything. Yeah. Something to everything.
Okay.
So yeah, but it's just like it's there, but you don't.
Because there's no limitation because you're going, what can you. There's no.
You're not in a scarcity.
Exactly. But don't try to. When you overcome the ambition, don't try to find it in somewhere else. Don't like, oh, worry friend Matt will say, right. That's his own experience island and stuff like that. It's something for him anyway. Position that has been. Position that I've been position. You've been position. Find your own. When you being there and you went about to do it, but you had the same kind of similar objection, but you overcome it and tell them, make it yours. Yeah.
So it's real. Yeah.
So you have like a principle. Principle. And then from there you like, you work on the nuance of how to get them. Yeah. You know, like. Because all those like reframes and stuff, that was just me trying to figure out how to make everything. Everything come off good.
Yeah.
Because I was struggling with the consequence, the tonality, all that kind of stuff. So I was giving people like examples that made it like, oh, I get that now. Because the answers I were getting were really surface level. It was like, what happens if you don't do this over the next three, six or 12 months? And they go, well, that would suck. And I go, okay at that. But then it's like, how do I go? That's not enough. So how do I get the detail? You know? So like the next level is like, okay, well that would suck. And be like, okay, well what would suck? And they go, I wouldn't be able to do this. And it's like, what's, what's the day to day ramifications of that? But if you can put it in terms of like a deer and a bear, it's so visual that it makes sense. And they immediately know what I'm trying to get at. And then, like, they buy into the idea that it's in their benefit to answer the question, which is the only way you'll get the real answer. Because if they just. If they're just giving you lip service, it's worthless.
Yeah. Right.
So they have to understand why the idea benefits them. Which, like, for you and what you're saying at the moment, that's a difficulty. Yeah, Those, like, reframe those, like, those analogies, they really help because you're like, if you know. Do you understand what I mean?
Okay.
Because if you can picture this and this. This is what I mean. This is why it's in your benefit to actually think this way. And so then they go, oh, okay. Then they start telling you the answers. And then from there, you have, like, all these emotional fulcrum points that you can pull from the whole way through.
Yeah.
And. And then with that, like, you find a good one. And a lot of the time, what you'll find is once you go through that, then you'll actually get the real goal. Because they'll say, I want to free up 15 hours. I want to double my income. Do this, I want to do this. Then you get to the real goal. And then consequence questions, you go, what happens if that doesn't happen? I'll never be able to semi 55. And you go, ding, ding, ding. Hang on a minute. That's tangible goal. So now I need to go back up. Well, with what you're doing now, how close are you to be able to get your kids to private school? But they go, I'm not close to. Like, why not? How much would that cost? Like, like, what's going on there? Why private school? Why not? Why not just keep them in public school? Well, the public schools here are crap. And they're this and this. And like. Okay, so you really want your kids to go off all the benefits that you didn't have? Okay, man, like, I hate to ask you, but what happens if you don't?
Right.
And so then we go back through the sequence because we found, like, ding, ding, ding. Winner, winner, chicken dinner. That's the goal that is emotionally driving them to push forward, you know? And it just takes you, like, two more minutes to go back up. Yeah, drive it through. Then from there, they're like, what happens if you don't? It's like, well, then they don't get to go. And you go, yeah, yeah, yeah. But what happens? They're like, well, they get into the crab they do this, they end up not going in and do this and this and this. And like, are you willing to settle for that?
No, I'm not.
Why not? And that's when you start being like, well, you real. Why not?
Yeah.
So are you going to start doing something about this and actually making a change? You're like, what are you going to do? And that's when you can really start hammering that authority.
Yeah.
Then you put yourself in a position that when you. And then you just drop it right back and go, okay, man. And you're super calm in pitch. And they get this, like, sigh of relief that, ah, okay, they've got it. And that's when you get somewhere at the end of the dying. Do you think this is the best move for me? And that's when you know you're really good at. Which is when you get the cosplay to ask your advice.
Yeah. Yeah.
And you're like, I would never tell you to do something.
And that comes across so well because it personifies him in the way that he talks and speaks to people.
Right.
That doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to come across the same way for you to say it. You say it or him to say. Right. Like something we mentioned the other days. He changes things to perspective, to a perspective shift. He changes it to a mindset shift issue because he knows what his strengths are and they're not the same strengths that Matt has. They're not the same strengths that Jeremy has. Right. And vice versa. So, like, for you to get to that level, you have to understand what your strengths are, what areas that you're weak in, and then really build the way that you structure that and the way that you say it based off your pure strengths. Because that is what you do best and it personifies you. So it comes across as pure, genuine. And that's when you get people asking, what's. Is this the best move for me?
So you're bringing your authority and experience into it as an advice. And it's like, yes.
Yeah. If you share, if you share, like, that's, that's, that's. I'm learning from. From Joe Gumby bidders. All right. It's like you setting up frames for the course is like using. You can start indoctrinated language. Okay, let me see if I can help you. Let's list from the same side of the table. We both agree that your issue is. Now what I'm concerned fully is that's another strong claim that I use a lot. Listen, man, you both agree that the issue here is the cells. What I'm concerned of that you go into that kind of. I'm sober, like you were saying, to say, okay, let's see if the marketing works. You close three or four out of luck, you go all part. But in six months, it was one. So you're judging one month out of six months just to create a sense of.
For.
For sure. So I guess, like, how do you feel about that? And I'll go to you. It's like, okay, what would you do though? But just because it's like creating that framework, it's like, I help you understand same side of the table. And now you feel it. Because I'm not talking out of my ass. Like I'm saying the reality of things. Right.
I'm standing f. That's the key to good objection too, is like to take it from an objection and then you turn into like a problem that both of you need to solve.
Yeah. Yeah.
Because if you're on the same side of the table, it's much easier. Then you don't have to do comparative objection. And that's why it's like just the 20th talking about it and having some sort of bridge, like the refrain of the mindset or the perspective refrain. Like it kind of. It leads you into a conversation instead of like trying to hammer them down.
With like, you're finally getting what actually is an objection.
Right.
It's just a mask that the problem that they have hasn't been solved by you yet.
Yeah.
So continue to figure it out. Or that they don't fully believe that that problem has been solved and that you're capable of solving it. Thus you need to continue the conversation in order to make them believe that that problem has been solved.
It's just that's. I pumped a lot in the group training that we do all together. It's like someone comes in, we're limiting belief.
Right.
We're a limitation. And they get off with the same limitation. That's your job. Yeah, that's your job. But it's that that's the old south. It is promising a limitation. You understand the limitation with all the about systems marketing. That's all irrelevant. I've done a lot of calls. Man and fitness helped me to understand, like, everyone can believe you. Everyone. Everyone can open a business online. Everyone can sell. That's different.
Right?
Put that aside. You have to. You have to have a natural behavior for sales. It's buying into your own. But everyone can build a business online.
Okay.
If you have Something to offer out there.
Just.
Just the equation of, like, how much limitation you give to yourself.
Yeah.
I think, like, the best exercise you can do before we wrap up is like, listen to your calls and then just like, listen to every question and go, what was I trying to do? And could I have done it more eloquently? And then, like, you know, because already when you ask a question, you're just like, oh, like. Like that one before, it's like, well, you can't do some 100. It's like, well, that's an objection. Now, like that.
Yeah.
Not in 20 minutes. It's like, yeah, but like you said, if you can't do it 100, you're not going to get a result. I can't do this 100 for another 612 weeks.
Yeah.
You know, and then. And then you're trying to shift the guy's perspective about. Or he can do it 100 when you know he can't. You know what I mean? Or when he really feels he can't. So then that's a much harder shift to make than, like, hey, just put an effort.
Yeah, but it's just not reality of things. Like, yeah, I gotta go to the gym, like, in 20 minutes, bro. I'm not 100. Like, I'm minus. I still gotta shut up. It's the congruency thing. It's in my head. And that's for you as well, right? He's like, that's what I meant. You got to touch your gold plate, otherwise you're never going to get it. You're never going to get over it.
