Matt Ryder and Marco discuss why sales objections aren't always a mindset problem. They break down the difference between what customers actually believe and what's blocking them logistically, and how to handle refunds without turning it into a fight.
Put that coffee down.
We just did a video on mindset and stuff like that. And that seems to be the bat that a lot of people want to hit their prospects over the head with. Like, it's, it's. You just have the wrong mindset, whatever. And can you explain the damage you might do to a prospect or the chances of the clothes if you attack something as a mindset problem or a fear based objection, when actually it's a real logistical problem.
We'll just imagine having like a, having like a budget that you're allowed to spend. Like you're the chief sales officer of a company. You want to get sales training. You have a $20,000 budget, it's 25 grand. Like you'd be like, hey, and if you were had a sales rep that was like, oh, this guy's on mindset thing. They've got the money, you know, I mean, it's like. And you kept beating them over the head with like fear and all this kind of stuff. Like they're just gonna get pissed off and they're just gonna go, hey man, like chill the fuck out. And it's gonna get adversarial really quickly.
Okay.
Because you're like putting that onto them when it's not the case. Whereas if you went through a logistical first, then you would say, oh, it's a budgetary constraint issue. All right, cool, let's work with that. And then from there we can schedule a follow up call. I could do a discount if it was more of a corporate thing like that to get the ball rolling, whatever it may be.
Yeah.
So I could figure that side out. So that's why you always got to start with logistical. A lot of the time, especially in the coaching consulting space, people are taught that like a buy or die mentality or like, you know, you have to get them to buy on the first call. You have to do all this kind of stuff and it makes no sense. Like it's just silly about. Because it's written by people who have never actually done anything hard or spoken to people who like are willing to have a, have a backbone in their life to tell them no, it's just not happening, bro.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, and so they have this like buyers or liars mentality.
Okay, that, that, that, that sounds rehearsed, is that someone's buyers are liars is.
A thing from way back, okay. All the old school sales turners, buyers are liars. Don't listen to a word they say.
Okay? So then like, it seems to me like we're Kind of tearing a chasm apart here where a difference between the way that you do things and it's this very. You keep saying non adversarial. Like you want to like be a friend to the prospect and not hit that resistance, bring on buyers resistance, I suppose by having an argument that's new, would you say? Or is that.
Yeah, it's definitely like. It's definitely like in a. More any PQ thing. It's that sort of model three new era of selling. The old errors of the boiler room and all the kind of like old school.
More.
More selling is. It's sort of like it's designed to combat human behavior. So a lot of the old school sales books are like, if a person does this, do this and it will counteract it.
Okay. Right.
Whereas more of the NEP cure or more. The newer sales model is more like, okay, why is that happening? How do we work them through that so that it's their decision to overcome it hasn't been kind of placed upon them. Sure. Because you want someone to make a decision, you want them to make a decision. You want them to change their mind if they don't change their mind. If you change their mind for them and you kind of forcibly do it, they're just going to refund.
Yeah.
Like, because you can't stop that.
Yeah.
You know, we recently had a refund here and I got an email on like Saturday for a new client that signed up to one of our media things for five and a half thousand. And I remember hearing they tried to pull out. Marco got on the phone and sold them again. And I was like, oh, Marco's really good at that.
Right.
So I was like, I'm not surprised.
Yeah.
The person put objections up in the beginning. They ended up buying anyway. They then tried to pull out and then they got resold.
Okay, right.
Because they tried to pull out and then they just. The next day they just went and refunded. Like just put in, hey, this is. They just disputed the charge.
So I suppose there's limits you can talk about with that because it's a real thing. But that's fee based, you think?
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
Like it's just, oh, this is. This is money.
Money's going too fast. I'm freaking out.
Yeah, exactly. It's like. And they should have just emailed and gone, hey, listen, I've changed my mind. I don't want another call. I would have just refunded it instead of them doing it that way. I hate people who dispute charges.
Yeah.
Because it can be fixed like that.
Yeah.
We'll just refund you now. The whole dispute thing is like, it's.
A pain in the ass.
And if you sign a contract, then I can just submit the contract and I'll keep the money anyway.
Yeah.
You know what I mean? Whereas I would have just refunded you. It's not a problem.
Yeah.
You know, they just don't want to talk to Marco again.
They just don't talk to somebody.
I don't have the capacity to say no to this guy. This guy's going to tangle me and knots. He's going to make me feel strong and powerful. I'm going to feel like I'm going to conquer the earth without him holding my hand. I want to give up. I don't have the balls to go through with it.
Yeah. And that is a thing that happens.
Yeah.
You know, and it's. It's fine.
Yeah. Well, he's not going to hold their hand the whole way through.
Right.
So probably it's for the best that they do that, do you reckon?
Or like. I mean, it's hard to say. Circumstance to circumstance, you know.
Yeah.
But, you know, wish them all the best. It's fine.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. But. Yeah. So I think, like, having that segregation of fear and logistical is important because you don't want to. You don't want that to happen on a regular basis.
Put that coffee down. Coffee's for closers only.
