Expectation vs Reality for Inbound Closers

All right, guys, welcome to another episode of Coffee is for Closers. And today it is me and James, as always.

How we going, guys? Hope everyone's having a good day back.

I just had a fucking shit photo glass fall down.

I know.

It's all fucking happening over here. I got a setup. This is a temporary setup. It's doing in my fucking headed.

Yeah, yeah. It's funny. Quite funny watching you squirm and spill stuff all over it. We spent about 15 minutes getting ready for this podcast to start.

We did. It's fucking absurd.

If you listen to this podcast, you will make your first million within three years. I'm going to repeat that. You will make a million dollars within three years of the first episode. You listen to. We don't want pikers. We're not here to save the manatees. We're here to make podcasts. You really want this? You listen and. And review. Put that coffee down.

Today what we're going to talk about is what it takes or like what you can expect to have happen and what your life's going to be like when you become an inbound closer.

Yeah, yeah, I guess, like for guys that stepping into that role. How does it look? What's a day to day typically look like for you when you first start? What are the expectations? You know, what is like the roller coaster of emotions, wins and losses that come with that. And just talk about general generality on how to expect and how to be prepared. I suppose.

Exactly. What. What is life gonna be like? So. All right. Yeah. So, you know, I obviously became and I would say a proper inbound closer. What, like maybe 18 months ago?

You. No, I don't think it was that long ago. I know, don't. Well, less than that. I mean, we'll just say.

We'll just say around. Around 18 months. Maybe a little bit less. Yeah. Possibly in terms of proper. Proper doing it. I was obviously been doing sales for a very long time for like 10, 12 years. But I think the real difference was that like I took on an account where I was doing high tickets. I did my first high ticket selling. Yeah. Like maybe may or May. Yeah, may have 2018, something like that. Yeah. So, yeah, something like that. Yeah. It was obviously fell into a pretty quick first month. I made about 20, 25, 000 first week. I think I made 12 grand in commissions.

Yeah. That first week was something special, wasn't it?

Yeah. I was like, oh, we can do this. I was like, james, we're changing everything.

Let's fire all of our clients. And sell big products because it makes more sense. Right.

And that's what we did.

One, from a financial and two, from a time perspective. God damn, that was some animals that went into dialing those outbound leads for gyms and stuff.

Crazy. You know, it's crazy, though. I look back on. I remember one of the second. The first actual. Actually, no, the first gig that I have was actually selling the fitness marketing, so. Which was actually the first. And I think I went like 15 for 16 in my first 16 Kohl's. But I don't really count that because they asked me how much commission I wanted. Per sale is 2500amonth for a minimum of three months. And I asked for $300 commission. Right. And they were like, oh, we'll give you 400. I was like, okay. I remember calling you going, these fucking idiots are going to give me $400.

Let's be knowing that you are the fucking idiot.

Yeah, I just didn't know that, man. Like, I went from selling $197 product where I'd get like 2250 a sale, you know, like 40 bucks a sale. And I thought that was awesome because I was also getting paid basis at that time. We were getting paid like, I think 750. So $3,000 a month base per client, plus the commissions. But then a bunch of the base went to the closers anyway, it's the whole thing.

So that base was essentially there because of the pure amount of hours and dials that we'd had to do to get layers to pick up to make sales and spend on commission. Only on outbound is very difficult. And sometimes their leads would suck. Other times they'd get no one to pick up. And it was pretty rough on the sales guy. Having three days where no one would pick up. And they. They can't make sales, especially when it's a $30 commission. So we had to have large bases in to cover that time and make it worthwhile, you know.

Yeah. But we got really good results. I remember we lost. The only reason why we lost clients was because the gyms got full. But anyway, so, yeah, so the first actual. And then I. Yeah, I went like 15 sales. And then. Then from there I was like, oh, I think I might be able to do this. Like, I think I might be good at this. And then somebody put up an ad for business coaching sales, and I was like, yeah, I'm the greatest business coaching salesperson all the time. I've done it done in my whole life since I was five.

Anyway, I Ironically outsold everyone that had done that for that whole life.

Yeah, yeah. It's true. It's the first time I ever sold business coaching and we sold six in the first week. I'm pretty sure I offered to pay for the leads that I didn't close.

Yeah, that sounds familiar. Was that longer? I can't remember to be honest.

Yeah, it wasn't that long ago to be honest. But it was. A lot's happened in that time, let's put it that way.

Yeah.

So yeah. And then I was like oh shit. I think we should. But like in saying that you should not expect to do that. That is individual experiences may vary with a big asterisk. And I think that like I'm the. The dream that people talk about. But like you can't do that going from a nine to five. You can't. I was ten years of selling. I was on the phone with someone this morning. I was coaching guy named Kyle. Good guy. Really really good salesperson actually really coming along. And he went like oh, I think my expectations. Right. I was like yeah man. I was like, you gotta remember like with me I sold literally every single day for 10 years.

Yeah.

And some of those times I was selling hundreds and hundreds of people a month which meant I was having potentially thousands of sales interact per month. Which you just. You can't buy that experience.

Plus the natural communications. Well let's. Let's not say natural but developed communication skills that you had to be able to go in 18 months to become one of the best one on one sales coaches. You know, having that ability and I guess what's the right word ceiling as a person and skill set to be able to develop makes a big difference to how quickly you can develop that. So let's say what should the expectations be for someone that is one coming from a 9 to 5 job where it's not like they haven't done the dolls. I don't have necessarily that fine tune those communication details. And then once that then we'll look at. What about someone coming from like car sales, real estate sales moving into this industry. So. So first and foremost someone that's never had it the experience. Maybe they've worked in retail sales which isn't really the same thing. You're an order taker and in my opinion what should they expect?

I think they should expect to suck.

Yeah.

I think like you should fully expect to eat a big fat dick and make no money.

Well, depends where you're selling. Some make a lot of money.

Yeah. Like all of the not all, but like all the courses that are spruiking turn your nine to five into a six figure income in the first like three months. It's a total lie. Like there is the odd person who can do it who's just that way inclined. They have a good background or you look at someone like me they might just say oh like is the first closing course that I did was the inbound closer course. So it wasn't even that then, it was like it was just that. Sales mentor 21 day challenge. So you could say Matt did a 21 day challenge and they went on to make six figures a month in commissions. Yeah, like you could say that but it would be, it's absolute fucking bullshit because you're taking out all the context of 10 years of selling product prior. But you could say that. Right? So like I think if, if you don't come from a background like that my, if you, if you're going straight into closing, it's going to be a very, very rough road for you. I think that's probably the worst way that you can do it. Which is why I think a lot of the Dan Lock guys struggled so much because they were put into positions where they had to be really successful. One, they were commission only and they so like they thought that you know, they had to be really successful for their own financial means. The second thing is that like it's so expensive to get people on to coaching calls, especially in the coaching industry. It's an expensive industry to market in.

Yeah.

Which is, you know, not only is like the best marketers as far as appointment funnels go are like you know, 10 to 20 grand a month basis plus a 10% revenue share. So if you take that into account plus the ad spend, it might cost 3,000 bucks to get that person to buy. Right. Like or let's say it cost $1,000 to get them on the call and you're selling one in five and you're selling a 10,000 DOL program like that's garbage man. Like that means it's costing them five grand off the front end. Plus they have delivery cost taxes, they're making no profit. Right. So that that relationship falls apart really, really fast. And I don't think that people in the closing industry when they first come in understand that side of things to the point where like that's why their relationships died out so incredibly quickly.

Yeah. And also like if you're coming in to sell for an influencer or someone like that that hasn't got you know, hundreds of thousands of followers and has been in the game and got consistent results, they are not going to be getting you consistent high quality leads as what they claim to. And when you get on there and you go to make the sales like you're not going to make them. One, because you're probably not as good as what you should be. And two, they probably don't have the lead quality as to what they believe as a business owner because they come in and like you're a salesperson, just sell every single person based on your skill set when in reality that's not realistic. And because that maybe they have potentially done it in the past and they've got a good batch and have exhausted all of their organic reaches to bring leads in and they found like that bunch easy to sell, then went to scale, that lead quality dips significantly.

Absolutely. That's not, that's, that's another big thing is people are expecting like I think, I think people are expecting just to be given like warm leads and that's not a good way to make money. Like if the only way that you can make sales or make money is through commissions given to you by warm leads, there's like a handful of accounts that are going to be able to provide that, but most of them are going to require you to do some sort of work outside that. So if you don't have the skill set or like the knowledge or you don't go out there and try and get the skill set, it's going to be super difficult for you to actually be successful like in the long term. Because you know, I know most of our accounts, they go through spells of, you know, potentially a few months at a time where the lead quality is pretty low. But the whole point is like the guys, the guys have worked hard enough.

Keep that in.

I know, right? Just having having my non normal standing desk and everything set up, it's. It's really thrown me for six. But yeah, so the guys have done well enough and have the wherewithal to be able to actually develop themselves a pipeline. Plus they have strategies like calling for referrals, calling all the no shows. So like if you're just sitting back there and you're a high ticket closer and like I just closed warm leads, bro. Like you are in a world, you're going to be in a world of hurt because like if that's your expectation, you're going to get in there and you're going to be eating alive. And that's the main reason why I think like I was able to be successful quickly is because I came from a background of calling leads. And so I just assumed that everybody would do that. And I did all my own follow ups and I made sure that I followed up with people relentlessly. And then I would call them for referrals and then I would, you know, hey, there's a list of leads here that no one's contacted. Can I just start calling them? Like, yeah, for sure. Sweet. So every single time I had a no show, I would just fucking cold call the list and then I'd book in three or four appointments a week from that. And it was like.

And also to add to that point, if you're coming in and you're only closing warm leads, there is a very select few amount of accounts that can generate a lot of warm leads. And they are not giving you a job unless you have aons of experience with that. Like, you only get to close warm leads when you've done it long enough that you're good enough for those big accounts that do have that level of marketing to provide it to you. Because why would they.

Exactly. And like, you know, I did a, I did a video on this just the other day, but it was like, basically like, how do you get your first sales gig? Right?

Yeah.

And the easiest way is like, the problem is people go, oh, there's no risk. I'll do it for commission only. It's like, what if that call costs me $500 to get? Then it's a super risky proposition because every time you don't close someone, I'm burning $500.

Yeah, exactly.

So if you really want to stand up from the crowd, offer to pay for the leads that you don't close.

Yeah. Or just say, hey, I want to start, start out calling leads and building my own pipeline. Then when I've proven myself, I want you to give me or give me.

All the leads that nobody closed and give me all the people that, that went through your process but didn't hit all your qualification markers. And if you know they can give you five or six hundred leads, you can just smash that list for two weeks solid and you'll be able to make a few sales out of it. You're better than you are because the salespeople who are like, I'm a closer, I'm an inbound, inbound specialist. It's like, well, okay, man, like, that's not a great way to make a lot of money.

First of all, if you're a specialist, that would imply that you've done it and been Successful for a very long time. Have you?

Yeah.

You don't get to call yourself a specialist cuz you did a course that's like the equivalent of me doing an online course in, in veterinary science and then calling myself a specialist on horses. You know, I can fix your horse's ankle. Like that's stupid.

And so like. But the problem is that's kind of how it's being sold, right? Like it's being sold as the dream. You can come in, you just sit back from your living room call super highly people who booked into your diary who are super highly qualified, who you just have to take through a simple process and you can close. Like if you do that, you will close 1 in 20 at best. And that, that, that business owner will go broken. So will you.

Yep.

So like you, you have to be good at this job to make money out of it. That's why it's like broke salespeople are just not that good at selling. Like that's the problem. Like if you're. Because if you're a really good salesperson, you can get on good accounts. You know why? Because you sell to get on the account. There's a reason why I was able to get on every account that I wanted to get on. It's because when I had a conversation with the business owner, I sold my skills to them and I followed up and I was relentless and I got the fucking deal done. It's. It's not that fucking difficult. Like in terms of like a concept, maybe, maybe in practice it's more difficult than what I give it credit for. But in terms of like that's as simple as it is. So like if you are struggling as a salesperson, you need to get better at sales. Like, you know, first step by the closing code. If you haven't done that, then I have no sympathy for you.

And if you can't afford the closing code as a salesperson, you should probably find a different industry. Let's Be honest, it's 50 bucks a week.

50 bucks a week. Jesus Christ. You know, for something anyway, for six role plays, seven role plays. Now one of them is enough. I'll say. But yeah, so that's an expectation point of view. I think another one is the money. There's a false expectation around money that closers are worth a lot of money. Like I don't, I think that they are and they aren't. It's a really, I think contentious one because I think a really good closer is probably worth as much as you can physically pay them.

Yeah. I think if you come into a business and you double or triple their revenue and you are responsible for scaling them because your skill set is so good, then you're worth a lot of money. But until then you're probably not.

Yeah, Like, I don't think that closers should be paid like 20%. I've also heard of accounts paying 30 and 50% commissions. If you're on an account like that, it's a scam. Like they're not scamming you, they're scamming the deal. They're scamming the people that you're selling.

Yeah.

Because if you can afford to pay 50% commissions, then it's only two situations. One, it's a scam and there's really no delivery going on. And you're selling dreams and they're the. Eventually that business is gonna shit the bed, shut down, but it's gonna be a fun ride while they do it, like in terms of like money for the business owner. The second thing is that they're a genius and that they've scaled in a way that the delivery is automated, which is really only like E. Com can do that. And that's about it.

Oh, the third one is there's a cheap course with no delivery, in which case you're not gonna get high commission on it anyway.

Yeah. So it's a thousand bucks and they pay you a $500 commission, which is fucking amazing. But like just something like that or you're generating the lead, you're like, you're cold calling doing the inbound and you get a much higher commission. But in general, if somebody were to offer me 50% commissions, I would be extraordinarily dubious.

I'd be very hesitant to understand what it is. It's like one. How can you afford that?

Yeah, because like, you know, you. If you can afford to pay more than 25% commission, like you're not spending money somewhere and chances are it's the delivery and. Or taxes.

So Texas, big one, right?

Yeah. So like, when, how, like, what's the longevity of that business? That's what I would say.

You could jump on, get in, get out real quick.

I also don't like the expectation on percentages. Like working on percentages is like, I want 20%. Oh, it's a $50,000 a year long program. Yeah. I want 20%. Well, you're fucking ridiculous. Not worth $10,000 a sale. That's insane. That's insanity. You have to have a look at like what you're doing. Like you're only like yes, it's hard to be a closer and it's a valuable thing. But to get a thousand dollars for a phone call is out fucking. It's unbelievable that people are willing to pay that much money now. We get paid a lot more for, for a lot of things because you know, I mean. But I'm just saying like. Yeah. So I just think it's like, you know, you know if you're getting paid 500 for a 45 minute phone call.

Like that's pretty good money.

Right. Especially if the leads are good. Like you've got to take that to. The leads are garbage. You should get paid more. If the leads are really good you should get paid less. It's just a weird thing I think that people get really held up with like I need to get 10%. It's like why man, if you're getting paid $2,000 a sale, why can't you be happy with that? Just be. If it's a hundred thousand dollar thing it's only 2%. Yeah. Too. But it's two grand. Like be happy with it. You know. I mean you don't have to like asking for $10,000 or $15,000 a sale when all you do is sit back and make the sale and then you can literally walk away and never have a problem. Never have any delivery of anything to worry about. You have no expenses in your business. Like I just think that especially at the moment these closes are people are asking too much.

Yeah.

You know and I think like when I'm looking at calculating commissions because we're actually cheaper than a lot of agencies to be perfectly honest. Like most agencies charge a $5,000 a month fee as a flat rate every single month. We don't do that. We have us, we have a smaller fee. But for a lot of our clients once they've been established for a while and we're starting to get good commissions out of them, we drop that because it's like okay, now we're going to go pure performance based and there's no real risk attached anymore. Especially with like events or a Sirhan or something like that. Right. So yeah. Like when I'm looking at the, at the actual. You know most closers are thinking what's the most that I can get? And I would think that most actual agency owners are probably thinking what's the most that I can get away with? For me I'm thinking of how can I figure out a way where I can get paid the most. The closer can get paid the most. But I can mitigate as much of the front end cost of the commission as possible for the eight for the actual business owner so that we can scale the business faster. Because the more money and more profit they have for ads, the more sales calls they can get us. And it's really the way you make the money is through the volume. It's not through having a really high individual, it's having volume. So have a lower commission, like still a good commission, like where you're happy to get it, but then have volume or cash collection based bonuses where that's where you make it up through performance. But the numbers on those can be way bigger. So you actually end up getting paid more, you know, Totally. Like, I seriously doubt there's as many sales agencies as us with clients paying them a hundred thousand dollars a month in comps.

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's pretty rare. But to get back to like the expectations like financially for guys coming in without that experience, you will make more money doing your regular 9 to 5 job. Right. Without that experience, you're probably going to be making like one and a half to like four grand tops a month. Coming into this to start with, that floor is a lot lower than your standard 9 to 5 job, but the ceiling is a lot higher. When you get good. If you're coming in from a different industry straight into like one of these average $10,000 product that can get you 10, 15, 20 calls a week doing some outbound stuff, you probably make like anywhere between four to four to six grand until you get good at it. Which could take, depending on your development speed, anywhere from three to nine months. Yeah, most people like, and we speak to a lot because so many people come to interview with us that have been through other people and stuff that have been on all these different offers. The average person that comes to us makes about three grand a month, you know, and it will take to get to that. You can come in and make that 10k a month. It's going to take like 6 to 12 months to get to a level. Right. Providing you can financially cope with your bills and stuff and can stick around long enough to get there, it's gonna take you 12.

The key is to hustle while you figure it out. Because again, it has a terrible floor. But the ceiling is amazing.

Exactly.

Especially for like the. You require no infrastructure, no overheads for your business. Right. So you gotta remember like, you're never gonna make as much money as the business owner and you shouldn't. Okay. Like they're the person absorbing all the risk. And so you, like, you need to remember that the business owner needs.

Maybe if you're an impairment scheme.

Yeah. Making more money than you, that's a really important thing. Like, so, like, one of the traps of being a closer is that you see you making money for other people and then you start to think, oh, I should just do that. It's like, all right, man, go for it.

Good luck.

Yeah, yeah. Set up the infrastructure, pay for the ads, pay for the market. Like, it's not an easy gig. Being a casual coach, I think is pretty easy. Like, it's not hard to have three or four clients at any one time paying you a grand or two a month like that. But to make that into a real business where it's consistent and you're not just kind of like, doing shit here and there and constantly hustling to try and find one client, like, it's a difficult proposition, which is why there are not many really successful ones out there.

Yeah. And don't go down the road of trying to be a sales coach until you have made yourself 200 grand a commission a year. Right. Until then, you just. You don't know what you're doing. Yeah. As an absolute. I mean, to. To help newbies and stuff like that that are at your level, you could probably get away with it because you're doing some things right and you can teach the basics. But I wouldn't advertise. I would help people that come to you asking for help, you know, as a little side hustle. Why you get good.

But even, like, I don't advertise my sales coaching. Like, we don't do. Like, I do, like, you know, I do sales coaching for people. And for those of you who are wondering, it's $5,000 a month Australian, and it's well worth it. I think nearly everyone doubled their. Literally nearly. I think every single student I had doubled their revenue.

Yeah, it'd be close to it.

Yeah. But, yeah, like, you know, but you have to, one, you have to know how to coach people anyway. We're getting in the weeds about that. It's a whole different story. But I don't think, unless you're a very, very successful person in what you do, I don't think that you should be coaching people.

Yeah. And if you're very successful, you shouldn't need to keep making.

The reason why I do it is because, like, I don't need to do selling anymore. Like, we made an act. Just like, I sell different stuff now. I sell B2B. I sell some coaching. But I don't sell for an account now. And so it was like, well, we can make an easy fifty to a hundred grand a month by me taking on 20 coaching clients if I can consult it the right way. It's easy money. While we're spending so much money on growth. Like that was really the only, that was really the like the conversation. But most of the I have a cap. Everyone else we send to Jeremy.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like, cause that's like. Cause that's the model that we want to run. But in terms of like you know, from a financial. I think that sort of like 3k a month is probably about average what most the closers are making. I think you need to be on multiple accounts. I don't think being on one account is a good idea because every single one's ad accounts are good at one stage. I had one guy tell me that there's no way in hell his ad accounts go down. I was like, okay man. Like that's just not true. Yeah, like it's just not true. He's like, oh, I just start another one. It's like no, they flag your ip, they flag your credit card, they flag your last name. Even your wife, your son, your brother in law. None of them can start up ad accounts if they're anyway linked to you until they, until they fix it out. So they've got that stuff sorted. Like they're all wrapped up. So I think for redundancy standpoints you need to have multiple accounts. I think that like in terms of a potential income stream, I think that you need to have another income stream while you do it. Even if it's like honestly like Uber Eats man or like Ubering, like during times where there's no sales call and then banging out sales calls. Like having some level of consistency that will allow you to. Or do like a setter role where there's like a, where there's an actual income attached to it, like maybe a couple grand a month that will allow you to have like, it'll give you some breathing space because like this is a skill that takes, it takes time to figure out. And like road was a perfect prototype if you had to replicate someone's journey from nothing to something, it's road Now. Rode had very little sales experience. All of his sales was selling cell phones, right. He was like a B2B cell phone plan salesman, right. Which is sales. But it's not. It isn't. It isn't. It's like one of those weird sort.

Of like semi translatable.

Yeah. You're just competing on price in my opinion, in most cases. But you know, it is a sales background, but it's not really like on the phone overcoming objections, selling, you know. Anyway, I'm sure there's people screaming, yes, it is. Okay, whatever.

Cool.

I don't think car sales are sales either. So you guys can get angry me about that. I think it's a very different. I think. Well, I think there's just factors.

I think it's sales just a different type.

Yeah, it's sales that we consider. Yeah, it's just an EAS form of sale in my opinion. When you're selling information, that is a hard thing to sell.

Yeah. I've never walked into a car yard.

Not, not within my wallet in my.

Head with the idea to buy a specific car.

And so I, I bought a $200,000 car at the end of last year and the guy just took the order. Yeah, there was no selling at all. If anything, he tried to downsell me. I was like, what are you doing?

Yeah.

But there was absolutely not one iota of sales in that process at all. It was just, hey, what do you like? Which options do you want to go through? And you know what, they get compensated for that. They get paid almost nothing in Australia. That guy from a $200,000 car, he might have got $500 commission. Right. I've spoken to people who are in the industry, so I was very curious about that.

Yeah. But, but also we provided our own financing, so that's where they usually make a lot of their dollars from.

So there's that shooting anyway. Yeah. So definitely have some sort of other support system. But road, we'll take Rhodes, just Journey as an example. He came to me with that background. I. And I was like, hey man, like, to be honest, like if you want to do it properly, he's like. I was like, listen, I could coach you how to do it. It's going to cost you a lot of money. It's going to take. It's be. You know, it takes time. I don't know that you really have the cash to invest, but I was like, I like you and I think that we can definitely work with you, but it's going to be not great pay and pretty shitty hours. But I promise you we will put you in a position to where you are extraordinarily good and making good money.

Yeah.

Right. And he makes over 200k a year now and it took him 6 months before he took his first sales call.

Yep.

And we had him doing triages for four or five different closers. Follow ups. And then we just worked on his triages. We worked on them, we worked on them, we worked on them. Then we put him on a small offer. I think it was 4K, I think was his first offer. Small offer, business opportunity, not a difficult thing to sell. He replaced a guy who was apparently fucking amazing at sales and did 10 times better with almost no experience in selling. Anyway, Time for different. That's a different story came in. He did really, really well. Then from there we moved him onto a bigger account and I think then we put him on Vince's account and he just fucking smashed it.

He's got very good leads, but he's closing it over 80%. You know, he's.

But he did everything, he did it right. Like I did one on one coaching with me. He did coaching with Will, he did coaching with Marco. He came to all the group training sessions and he got interactions and that's really the hardest thing to get better. You need interactions. So like he had hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of sales interactions, getting commitments out of people. But it was commitments to book a sales call or rebook a sales call when they've already had one or. You know what I mean? It was all these like, I need to get. You need to get thousands of commitments from people. Once you've gotten that, or at least hundreds and hundreds of commitments, then you can step into a sales role. And that for me was like, that's the ideal way to do it. And now everyone who wants to come through us, that's what they do, they go through that role first.

And the best thing is like he fully understood that and knew that it was going to take a while and.

He was in a position where his wife made good money.

Yeah, yeah, so.

So he was able to kind of like take a back seat financially for a bit and just chill out and do the process. And I really think, like, you know, it's, it's unfortunate to say that people need to be able to not make money, but in reality, in this game, you need to be able to not make any money.

Yeah, exactly. Or deliver late at night, Uber, develop some fucking work ethic and some hustle so you can put yourself in there long enough to hit that ceiling. Otherwise accept a higher floor in a different job. You know, if you can't go through that for six months or you very, very good at development and can learn really quickly, then, you know, that's the realism of it. You have to accept that.

Yeah, I mean, I take Yash for example. I mean, Nash is a high school student and he works like basically two or three hours a day from when he gets home from school and until he has to do his homework.

Yeah.

You know, I mean like, and we've spoken to his parents and that kind of stuff and it's all cool. We're making sure that, you know, but he's doing that like as he wants to learn, you know, and so it's like, all right, cool. Put you in a position. When that kid's 18, he'll be a billionaire, man.

Yeah, but most of these people are getting out hustled by a 18 year old. You know, you can work your 9 to 5, then get on sales calls and develop your skills after that if you really want to. And maybe in some people's cases that is the best way to do things if they have a family. Because you can't step out unless you have financial backing and saved up enough cash to develop that. If you have a family that you have to support. It's.

Yeah, like I was, I mean I was super lucky. Like, even with us, like I had a little bit of like when we started Sales sniper, we had enough and I had enough. But that's, that's the main reason why I moved away from Sydney, where we moved back now. But the main reason was because Sydney is so expensive. It's equivalent of like San Francisco, New York, you know, it's so expensive to live in that like I knew like I could not start this business if I was living in that city. So I had to move the equivalent from, you know, my, from East Coast.

West Coast.

East Coast, west coast, right. My whole family across there. So I could, you know, have a house, have a home office and then, you know, be able to like live and work at home. And that allowed me to reinvest in the, everything that I made from commissions back into the business. But had I have not had that, like we would have grown half, half the speed.

Yeah.

You know, and so that, that's a, you know, it's a, it's a big thing like I had. Plus I've got some investments that give me some passive income streams and stuff like that. So I was in a position where I could take some risks and I could learn the things that I needed to learn. But essentially like the big things are like I just had a lot of reps in the beginning and then I saw a skill set and I saw a hole in the skill set and then I filled it with like Jeremy Minor and a couple of other courses that we did. But really I had the ability to do that because I put myself in a situation where I was able to financially and like. And then I had that 10 years of backing and I think it was just kind of like a perfect storm type situation where it all kind of worked out. Worked out really quickly. But if I didn't have that 10 years of selling behind me, you know, it would have taken five years to get to this point.

To be honest. If you don't have that 10 years of selling and didn't develop as quickly as what you could, you wouldn't have seen the ceiling and the floor there and never would have committed to making that decision with a fellow. There's no way you would have done it. Yeah. It would have been a terrible move for you financially and for your family to keep them happy.

Yeah.

Like, if you couldn't sell, you know.

Yeah, it's. It's crazy. So I think, like, you know, as far as, like, if we want to kind of wrap up, like, what it. And you know, I think being a closer, it's a phenomenal job.

Maybe before we do, let's talk about the expectations of the emotional roller coaster that you will do when you're on. Because that. That's huge, you know.

Yeah. I think when you first start, like, okay, I'll talk about me now. I don't give a fuck. And you know what I mean? And like, I think that's really obvious. And to be honest, when that happened, like, my sales skyrocketed. Like, I did, like, I think it was like 80k in commissions in like 3 weeks, selling 12 hours a week. Right. Like, when we launched Jeremy's product, I sold so many people in that fucking thing. It was crazy. And I just like, bang, bang, bang, bang. I made $100,000 a month. Business in three weeks.

Yep.

But like, I was at a point where I did not care if anybody signed.

Yeah.

And I generally didn't care. But like, you look, rewind six months. If I didn't sell someone, I would call James and I would punch a wall. Yeah, I was lose my goddamn mind. But the way that I sold had a big play to do with that. I had a very combative old school sales style. And I was just in mental boxing matches. And I would literally, I'd call James in the day after having like seven sales calls. And I had a headache. I felt sick. I was like. It was horrific. So I think, like, if you're depending on how you Sell. If you sell with a more NEPQ or you learn from us, you learn from Jeremy Minor. Like, I don't think you end up going through that anywhere near as much. You still do to some degree, because I think it depends on how much money, how much confidence you have in your process.

It also takes you a very long time, and it takes a while for that realization that you have to detach from the outcome to save your mental health. Otherwise, every win you get a really big high. Every loss, you get a really big low. And that sets up a roller coaster of emotions where it doesn't lead to consistency in your sales. Therefore, you don't develop as quick and don't hit those financial goals because things are inconsistent. Because you're inconsistent.

Exactly. And so I had to really move past that and identified that. And I used to speak to James about it. Like, I need to fucking figure out how to not be so emotionally tied to the outcomes of these calls.

Then we found Jeremy, right?

Yeah, and I found Jeremy. And I was like, yeah, that sounds like me. You know, I think one of the things he said is sales resistance, which really spoke to me. And then he talked about like that feeling at the end of a sales call where you just fucking exhausted. And I was like, yeah, it's me, man. Fuck. It's almost like you're selling me. But.

Which he was.

Yeah, but I remember when I. When I remember when I spoke to him, like, he. When I. When he sold me. He sold me over messenger. He sold me over messenger using voice messages. Like I was in. I didn't care what he could have said anything. I would have been in for it. And we did not have the money. I agreed to pay in full. And then I said, I can't pay in full. I was like, I don't have the cash. Like, I can pay in large chunks, but I paid it off over four months.

But yeah, I mean, we could have. If we wanted to, but it would.

Have put us in a really bad $000.

We would have missed other payments.

Yeah, but. And that was right. As Covid hit too, which that month was slow. But every other month has been huge since then. But anyway. Yeah, so, you know, but when I found that better way of selling and I got. As soon as I got really confident in my process and I knew that my process worked, I was like, if it works 8 out of 10 times, the other two is not my fault. Like, so. And as soon as I was like, okay, I can. I can lift that off my shoulders and like, the. I'm not good at this. Like, the imposter syndrome thing had left. I was like, cool. Hey, dude, I can do this. I can smash this out of the park. I'm very confident that everyone that I talk to will buy. And so, like, and if they don't, it's fine. Like, that's on them. That's. They're a weirdo as far as I'm concerned. If they don't buy, they're a weirdo. Like that. And that may be wrong. It may be an ego, but that allows me to not care and not get upset and be like, oh, cool. Just didn't happen that time. That's cool. As soon as I got that, problems. Yeah, man. Like, I just. You can't fix. Stupid. I'm not Tony Robbins. I cannot change somebody's life. And being in an hour, I just can't do it. And I don't want to be. I don't want to spend that much time studying people to where I can. I can understand them enough to where I can, like, change someone's being in an hour. Like, I don't give a fuck. Like, it's just not what I want to do. So, like, I just have to be happy that my process is good enough. It works very consistently. And so as long as I do my process, the only time I get like, fuck, I should have done that better is if I don't do the process because I buy into someone's bullshit, which doesn't happen very often, but it's usually on referrals. Yeah, we're on, like, friends or something like that. But anyway, we'll. We'll wrap it up because I got to go in a few minutes. But what was the last thing we're going to talk about?

The expectations are, like, coming in as a salesperson into this industry, particularly if you knew, expect low pay, expect to grind for a very long time to get good, and expect to spend immense amount of days exhausted and frustrated because things aren't working. And as long as you can get through that, people tend to be successful.

Yeah, like, it's a phenomenal, phenomenal job. Inbound. Closing. Closing on the phone is a phenomenal job. Once you figure out how to do it and you get to the point where you're confident in your process. Because, like, I've seen guys, I've seen my clients go from 5k a month to 30k a month to 40k a month, and I've seen their lives change. And it's incredible when it clicks and I See it click. And I go, you've got it now. Sometimes it's like with Jeff, it was the first session, he goes, oh, fuck. And he was like, click. And he was like, got it right. And then it was like, piff, Piff, Piff, piff, piff, Piff, Piff. Sending me, you know what I mean? With Drew B. You know what I mean? Shout out to Drew Be, you know, like he like doubled his sales. He like matched the whole fucking month in December, you know what I mean? And you know, same thing with Tyshon. Shout out to Tyshon is a massively consistent closer. Like, awesome. Sign up to any PQ is skyrocketed. You know what I mean? All these guys, like all these people and it's like, you can do that. You just, you just have to take the same series of decisions that somebody else did. And it's not easy, but it is achievable. And I think it's genuinely a job that anyone can do. Like that is you can have no arms, no legs, as long as you have a mouth and a brain. You can make really good money doing this, but you can't rush it and you can't set yourself expectations that you can never fill. And if you try and be me or be somebody else, like, it's just not going to happen because you don't know the series of things that led to that happen.

A little bit of a technical difficulty. So I'll just finish things off. But yeah, just to recap, anyone can do this job as long as you're willing to go from A to B to C and spend the time, spend the money doing that to get good. Because once you are good, the lifestyle is amazing. You're able to work from home, work or from wherever you want. Have essentially an uncapped ability to earn money. And along with that comes the freedom. So thanks for listening. You'll find all of our stuff in the bottom there. Please subscribe. Join the Facebook group for the closing code. Join the closing code if you want to. And brilliant guys, have a great day. Thanks from James and Matt.

Bye.

Put that coffee down.

Coffee's for closers only.