Expert Explains Sales to a Beginner in 24 Minutes
Matt Ryder walks Ben, an operations officer with no sales experience, through the NEPQ sales methodology and how to build trust and close deals ethically. The video covers the phases of sales conversations and practical techniques for anyone new to selling.
Hey guys, what's up? Matt here. Today's video is for salespeople who want to get better at sales, for entrepreneurs who want to learn about their sales process and understand the process of taking their prospects through better. What I do is take the operations officer of Sales Sniper Ben, who has absolutely no sales experience. And I explained to him in depth and in exhausting detail how we're going to make a sale. And he has all kinds of questions and twists and turns. So what I want you guys is to watch like subscribe, hit notification, but all that kind of good stuff and I will see you on the inside. So this is Ben. Ben is our operations manager and has no sales experience except he has a wife that's harder than him, so he must be good at something. So what we're going to be doing today is I'm going to walk Ben through a sales process and kind of like what we're thinking and what we're doing throughout the process. And then we're going to get a layman's, for lack of a better term, kind of questions. And I think that should spark some good conversations in you guys. And yeah, so from there. So, okay, so sales process. So NEPQ stands for neuro Emotional Persuasion Questioning. That's Jeremy's methodology. That's the one that he kind of taught us. So he has a neuroscience background. So traditionally a lot of these sales methodologies kind of work against. So if you watch any of the old like boiler room movies, it's always like fuck the prospect and trick him into doing stuff and all that kind of stuff. So that's a really combative way of selling and it kind of burns people out. So what Jeremy tried to do was like he was studying human behavior and neuroscience at university when he was door knocking and then that's where he was like, well, I'm asking people all these questions. That's kind of working against what natural behavior would do. So then he started to research like Socrates. He's fairly religious, so he did a lot of like the readings in the Bible and Jesus and all that kind of stuff about how he influenced and asked questions and got people to change their mind over things. Yeah, and then Socrates is a big one as well because it's all like there's a great book called Socratic Selling, which is question based selling, which is what we do. So then from there. Yeah, so that's kind of the methodology and the philosophy behind it. And then from there any PQ is essentially a series of like, it's just a Paint by numbers of like, steps.
Okay, Right, Yep.
So your first step is called the connection phase.
Right?
The connection phase is basically just designed to take the. To take the attention off the pro, off the salesperson, and put it on the prospects. If you're. You can imagine yourself and you're in a sales environment and then all of a sudden you walk into like the, you walk into like the car yard and the guy just starts spitting all the shit at you about the car.
Right.
We don't want to do that because that creates sales resistance. You know that feeling that you get when you're just like, this guy. Yeah, this guy. Right. We want to avoid that.
Right.
So we want to do is not act like a salesperson. We just want to start asking a bunch of questions about the person and what they want, why they want it. Yeah, makes sense.
Makes sense.
All right, cool.
Right?
So once we kind of have that, we've established that like there is a problem here. Like there is a problem that they're looking for a solution. Like if the guy walks into a car dealership, he's looking for a motorcycle. We need to establish that relatively quickly, you know, but what I. The way I don't want to do it is like, you know, I don't want to do. A lot of sales people and sales coaches, they teach to like, set an agenda. So you get into a call, let's say you walk into the dealership and I go, hey, the point of today, of us talking today is to figure out if you're a good fit for one of our cars. So you can imagine you kind of get on the back foot straight away because it's like, I'm a good fit for your car.
It's not what I mean.
Yeah.
You know what I mean? So, yeah, so we want to kind of figure that out. Then from there, right. We go into what's called the situation phase. Situation phase is essentially like, what are you currently doing about the problem that you're here to solve?
Yep.
So what are you currently doing about the problem that you're here to solve? Okay, so that can be awesome a.
Bunch of different ways.
But let's say you want to get sales coaching. Like that means you want to make more sales. Right. So the self evident problem is I want to get better at selling so I can make more money. What are you currently doing to get better at sales? Yeah, if I'm selling a car. Okay, so like, what kind of car do you currently drive? You know, and then I want to find out about your current Car. The things you like and don't like about your current car. So then I can start to figure out, like, what I have in my inventory in the back of my head that I think would solve the problems that you have. Because, like, why would somebody want a new car?
Right.
There's a bunch of different reasons. So they start making a ton more money.
Yeah.
Right.
So status plays a big one. Let's say their wife's pregnant. Obviously, you're looking for a family wagon. If you're going from two to three kids now, you need an extra row of seating.
Right.
So there's a whole bunch of issues and problems that we need to identify. But we don't want to start telling them what to do. We want to get them to tell us. So we ask questions.
Right.
Because if I tell you what your problem is, I tell you how to solve it, it doesn't mean much. Because I'm a sales guy.
That makes a lot of sense, particularly to me.
So it's the same with, say, your partner. If you just tell your partner how to solve problems, it doesn't really do much. So they either want support and acknowledgement of their problems or they want to be able to work it out themselves. So I'll teach a man to fish.
Right.
So anything that I say as a salesperson has relatively little impact, especially in, like, the first part of the process, because I haven't built enough trust.
Yep.
So I need them to say things. I need to ask questions which have answers that can move me down the process. Sure.
Right.
So that's essentially the situation phase.
Right.
So we've got connection, situation. Those are the first two steps. The third step is problem awareness. This is where we help them become aware in a more detailed area of what their problems are.
Yep.
Right.
So there's essentially four main things that I want to get out of problem awareness. The first thing is one, what is the problem? Let's just use the car as an example. I have no kids. I'm not having a kid. My current car is not sufficient in both, like size or safety.
Right.
So it's like, I need to fix that. That's the problem. How long has it been a problem?
Right.
Or even how long until it becomes a serious problem?
Right.
Like, you know, what time frames are we looking at? Yeah, exactly. Right. Then we've got what's causing the problem. Current problem is, you know, the car, whatever. And then we have, like, what impact is that problem having or going to have?
Right, yeah.
So what is the impact of having a car that's too small. You know, you have a two seater Mazda. Like what happens if you don't figure out a way to kind of get a bigger car so you can, you know, that kind of stuff? Like, well, fuck, I couldn't be able to do this, this and this.
Right.
Yeah.
So all of a sudden you start having a conversation around consequences of not solving problems, which then that starts to create the urgency.
Yes, right.
A lot of people try to create urgency through scarcity. So it's like, man, this is the last one in the lot. It's the only thing I've got. The next ones aren't coming in for six months. Like you want to make a decision today.
Yeah.
Fear based approach rather than decision.
And when you get told that stuff, what do you immediately do? Yeah, exactly. Because it just becomes a sales tactic at that point.
Right.
So I want the person to create their own urgency. It's just a far more effective method. Because everything I say is garbage. What they say is gospel.
It's their choice.
Yeah, exactly. And then if they say things that are in my favor, I'll question them and make them defend.
Yeah, okay.
Right.
So if you're like, man, I really need to get this fixed in the next, in the next two months. Well, you can wait six, like it's no big deal. Like why two?
Right.
And they'll go, well, no, because.
Right.
So I push back on you a little bit, you immediately dig in harder on your response.
Yeah.
That's human behavior.
I was gonna say. Yeah, right. That makes a lot of sense.
Yeah.
But now they're arguing the point that you want them to.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Right.
And if they have a point that doesn't benefit the outcome that I want, I can choose to just ignore it and just. That never happened. Or I can spend the time to unravel it. To get them to unravel.
Yeah, right.
Which is a more skilled approach, more effective. But in the beginning of sales, like I would recommend we just ignore.
Yeah.
We just move on.
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
You could get tied up into something there that you want to.
And if you don't know how to do it, it can go so pear shaped.
Yeah.
You know, and you can just end up in this like hamster wheel of shit where you don't want to go anywhere.
Right.
So the next thing is going to be these. The solution, awareness. So now we have the connection where we're asking about them. We find out what they're here for and what problem they want to solve. Then from there we go through the Situation, which is, what are you. What are you currently doing about. About the problem you'd like to solve? And we have the problem awareness, which is we explore the key areas of the problem, the impact, the time frames, the what, the where, the how, the why. Essentially, then from there we're going to the solution. The solution awareness is not really about, like, it's about future pacing and discovering what an ideal solution for them looks like.
Okay, Right.
And then like, attaching a tangible and emotional benefit.
Yep. Right, Yep.
So if I use the car as an example, like, let's say I'm the guy buying a car for status reasons.
Right?
The guy walks into Mazda, he's just sold his business for, and he's buying a Lamborghini.
Lamborghini.
Right. Like, there's no good reason to buy a Lamborghini. None whatsoever. But you should still definitely buy one if you can.
Right? Right.
If you want one, you can definitely buy one.
Right.
And so, like, you know, for that, like, it's like, like, you know, I want to talk to you about your current car, things you like, things you don't like about it. Like, why Lamborghini? What's the ideal criteria you're looking for in a particular Lamborghini? Is there colors? Is there this? And then it's like, I would. Then once I kind of get that. That detail, then I'll try and, like, solidify, like, emotional. Emotional tangibles for them to attach them. Like a future memory to.
Yeah, Emotional tangibles.
Yeah. So, like, okay, man, like, I want you to do this. Like, let's say we're able to help you out, find the Lamborghini of your dreams.
Right?
And it's the orange with the black. And this and this and this and this. Like, where's the first place you take it for a drive? Gotcha.
A tangible in your mind.
Yeah, yeah.
Makes sense.
So I'm trying to, like, create a future memory.
Yep. Yes.
Right.
And then I'm asking about detail about. About that memory that hasn't happened yet.
Yeah, Right.
Because like. Like, who would you call? Who's the first person you call? And I give you the keys. I give you the keys, order it in. It all happens. Brand new Lambeau. Like, who, like, who you gonna call? I call my dad.
Why?
Why your dad? Because, man, he's always, you know, I mean, so then, like, we're starting to attach lots and lots and lots of emotion to the. To the outcome, to the.
Yep.
Right.
Yeah. So a lot of people, they try and play too much on the, like, never solving the problem. If someone has a really big problem, not in the case of Lamborghini, but in most cases.
Right.
Then they'll just solve it.
Yes, Right.
If it means enough to them. So the people who we're speaking to, they haven't solved their problem yet, therefore it's not enough of a problem.
Yes.
Right.
So what we then have to do is take the problem and then we have to attach the solution, future, paste the solution. Get them really, like for the. Possibly the first time, like actually visualizing the. The future possibilities.
Yeah.
Because a lot of people don't actually do that.
Yeah, yeah, no, that makes sense. Especially when it's a problem like that, that, you know, it's. It's a nice to have problem.
Yeah, exactly. But even like, let's say you want to get better at sales, you want to get better. Like, what does that mean? I want to take my commissions from 5k a month to 30k a month.
Month.
Okay. At 30k a month, what do you do? What do you get? What do you go? What can you do with that level of time, money and freedom.
Yeah.
That you couldn't do before. Yeah. So people don't future pace out. They don't really think about it. So when they do think about it, it becomes far more emotional, real, tangible, all that kind of stuff. And then when you ask questions that no one's ever been asked, like, who would you call? Where would you go?
Yeah.
What's the first photo you take with you in your Lamborghini? Like when, like when, like when you get to $50,000 a month and commissions and you buy your dream home for your. For your wife, like, and you call her to tell her that you just bought her the dream home. What does that call? Feel like. Yeah, that's a really interesting conversation because then people, like, look up and they start smiling and they're like, that would feel amazing.
Yeah.
Then from there now I have to kind of smack them with reality and go with what you have now. How close are you to do that?
Come back to where we are now.
So now I have to, like, I've kind of built the gap and then I have to kind of start to suck them back.
Yeah.
So I'm like pushing them forward, thinking about the future. And then. And then at some stage I have to go, which is the next phase, which is consequence phase. Right now it's like, what are the consequences of you never realizing that future?
Right.
A lot of people screw it up and they talk about the consequences of not solving the problem.
Right.
But the problem isn't serious enough for most people, which is why they've never solved it.
Yeah, yeah.
So you're making it serious enough but talking them through all that steps and.
Attaching a solution to reality. Right. Then from there I suck them back and go like that. This is where you are, this is where you want to be. What happens if you never get there?
Right.
And then you actually make them, you make them go into the day to day ramifications of never achieving.
Right.
Yeah.
And that's the key. It's not like conceptually, what's that like? That'd be unfortunate. No, no. What's your day to day like if nothing changes and then people have to sit down and think, now they've thought about this, now they have to think about that.
Yeah.
There's the two sides of the coin. Then from there, once we get a good consequence, we get a commitment. Once we get a commitment, like a commitment to change, like are you actually willing to start making some changes so you can get to xyz, so you can blah, blah, blah, call your parents and tell them you bought a fucking Lamborghini or whatever. Then from there you get hard yeses then of recap their problems, their solution, the consequence based on what you told them. I think that what we do might actually work.
Correct.
Right?
Yep.
Then we present or pitch, whatever it is you want to call it. And really then it's just about the. The whole presentation phase is locking up commitment on details in the program without being too detailed.
Yeah, that makes sense. So would you then get a decision made at that point or you kind of. You're getting a commitment which is just their willingness.
Yep.
I mean we're ready to go.
Yeah.
So I would I get a commitment to change.
Yep.
Then I go for the pitch, which is essentially where I'm asking for the sale for the. Right now I do my pricing at the top of the pitch because I hate going into a car yard when they don't have pricing on the window. I hate that. So to me it's the same thing. I don't want someone to verify commitment to the program because one of the questions you're going to ask at the end of the presentation is, hey, does this feel like it can get you from where you are to where you want to be? And if they don't have the context of the price, I feel like it's an awkward. They go, yes, but what does it cost? Yeah, I feel like I have to justify.
Yep.
And I don't want to do that. So I just go, price at the top. Here it is. And then I take them through and I ask them for. I ask them to explain to me in a detailed fashion why certain parts of the program are really beneficial to them.
That makes a lot of sense.
Yeah. Yep. Yeah.
And I'll go, so do you feel like this could be the answer for you? You'll go, yes, almost always. And then you might say, but I will immediately interrupt you, because if you think about it, people don't think. Then speak. They think while speaking.
Yeah.
So I can stop language. I can stop talking. That stops thought.
Yep.
So I just. The moment you start saying something I don't want, I interrupt you.
Yeah.
Tactfully. Like, I don't do it rude and say anyway, but I just go, like, why do you think that then? So now they said, yes. The rest of the thought is cut off. I say, why do you think that? Then? You have to justify your own position.
Yeah. Yeah.
Right.
So essentially, making them create an anchor as to why that. That solves the problem. Then from there, I'll ask for detail. Okay. Like, what do you think it is specifically that you feel like is. I don't know, the. The key to the castle for you?
Yeah.
So now I'm asking for specific. Which makes them then think about the presentation I've just given them.
Yeah.
And then pull out something that they feel is the most value.
Yep.
And then tell me why that's the most valuable, and I'll go, okay, that.
That.
That makes sense, I guess.
Yeah.
Right.
That all makes a lot of sense. So they're pitching it back to you, basically validating why they've got to that point. You've already assessed that they're willing and ready to commit, so they're making a decision.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Then from there I go, how do you want to proceed from here?
Right.
Like. And that. And that. That's. That's a very. Like, a lot of sales coaches would say you should never close that way because it's a far more difficult way of closing. But it's the. It's the most. It's the most efficient method. So a lot of you might have heard this before, like a double buying close. Like, these are a MasterCard.
Okay.
So what A lot of what I was taught originally when I'm in sales, I was like, okay, so do you want to do the payment plan of the paid in full payment plan? Okay, do you want to do the. Twice a week or three times a week, whatever. Okay, cool. Do you want to pay a visa or MasterCard.
Right.
Thinking that people are stupid enough to just bumble themselves into a sale.
Yeah.
Like they can pick all those things and still say no. Like, it doesn't. Doesn't matter.
Right.
So I'll just say, how do you want to proceed from here? Which then opens every door to you.
And.
And then I never have to get combative. And it's a really easy process for me to have that conversation because at no stage do I ever box you in to making a definitive decision.
Yeah, always.
How do you want to proceed?
Yeah, that's right. So they're making a decision.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And the decision can be to have an objection. That's fine. I want to think about it. No dramas. I go through that. Then it's like I deal with that. Deal with money. Okay, sweet. I just lock up the money side of things. How do you want to proceed? Yeah, they go, yeah, that money sounds good. Or some. Talk to my partner. Lock up the partner. Objection. Okay, how do you want to proceed from here? Like, I want to think about it. And then after a little while, I'll switch over from how do you want to proceed from here? To what do you need to do to put yourself in the best position to be able to achieve xyz? So I just make that shift, and then I can become more and more definitive with my language to do with that. One question.
Right.
What do you need to do so that when you go to bed tonight, you're in the best possible position to be able to achieve xyz so you can put your kids in private school and get them out of the shitty public school they have now? That's a very like. Well, okay.
Yeah.
Right.
But you built them up to that point, so it's nothing out of the book for them.
Exactly.
Right.
So that's essentially the sales process.
Yeah.
Right.
Interesting. Cool. Have you got questions on any of that?
I got.
No, I haven't got questions. I think if I kind of regurgitate it back to you.
Yeah.
Then you can tell me if I've missed anything. But it seems. Well, let me. I'll just blurt it out and I'm not going to use it. Well, I'll use your headings where I remember them. But essentially your short story, you're trying to get someone to buy something and it. But you're doing it from an ethical point of view. So it needs to be a mutually beneficial relationship rather than just, hey, give me your credit card.
Exactly.
Yeah, yeah.
So it needs to be mutually beneficial. So you need to understand where they are. And they need to understand what you have in your inventory, which was your words. So you go through a couple of processes and a line of questioning to reach a common understanding.
Yes.
Essentially you try to either reinforce the relationship that you've already built through the lead flow sort of process, or to create a new relationship, potentially, if you haven't already done that. You got to validate that. That they're there for the right reason. So you're trying to sell xyz. Are you here to talk about XYZ rather than oranges or something like that?
Yeah.
Initial step. And then you need to assess what their problem is, largely by questioning them, which you obviously have detailed processes for. But essentially you question them, see what their problem is, see how they want to end up, where they want to end up on the outcome is that they're trying to desire, and then seeing what's in your inventory to see if it matches up to that which you kind of. I assume you already know that. That you've got something that you can give.
Yeah, that's a process thing.
Right.
So they should sort of get to you at a stage where some of that stuff is sorted out.
Yeah.
Otherwise it could be a real big conversation.
Yeah.
So once you've done that, you figure, you figure out what the issue is now, where they want to be, what you can do to provide it for them. Then it's a matter of, I guess, mindset largely of getting over whatever mental hurdles they've got to commit to it, both mentally and financially, I guess. So you go through some detailed problem solving with them on that. Cleverly, you build the picture in their own mind and you help. You get them to help build that picture. So it becomes. What was your word? Emotional? Tangible. Yeah, I like that. So now they've got that future vision and they've felt it because you've asked them particular questions revolving around how they feel day to day, how it impacts them right now at the granular level. And then they reach a point where they've either got other barriers that you can. You can look at and address through a similar method, and then ultimately you get to a point where they understand what it is that you've got to offer, how it's going to fix their problem and they are willing. If they're not willing, that's a problem. But if they're willing, then it's a matter of figuring out whether they can afford it or what they can do.
To be in a position to afford it. Resources versus resourcefulness versus Logistics.
Yeah, but they want it.
So. So yeah, the key is to get someone to want it. Right. And I think, like, even if you don't get the sale, you don't take the payment. You know, I say there are five levels of commitment, which is a paid in full is a full commitment. Payment plan is obviously more attentive than a paid in full commitment.
Right.
But it can't be like logistical reasons why they can't. Then from there there's like a deposit.
Right.
And there's a scheduled deposit or scheduled payment and there's a commitment to change with a follow up. Yeah, sometimes, man. Like, you know, we're talking to Will today and it was like, guys, 22 years old, bro, living in Serbia, and he's gonna sell his car to do a program. It's like he's got the commitment. That's a win. That's as much as a win as you can get on that particular instance.
Right.
And so then you. Then you've got to be able to, as you get more senior in sales, be able to like, remove your emotion and your ego from the outcomes of the call and start to have a look at them more on a case by case basis and not freak out if you don't sell three or four people in a row and then not get too excited if you sell five or six people in a row.
Yeah.
You know, you know, you're not the God king of sales. If you sell everybody in a week. You're not the worst sales guy in the world if you don't sell anybody in a week, for sure it all evens out over long term, generally speaking. And the better you get. It's like the stock market. It just kind of ticks up.
Yeah.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah. Yeah.
Amazing.
So, yeah, anyway, that's. That's explaining sales to someone who has no sales experience and trying to convey what we do. And I think it's a really valid technique for you guys to do at home, you know, to explain your process to someone, you know, and you'll get better at explaining it. I'm very good at explaining this process.
Right.
Because I've done it so many times.
Right.
You guys might find it that you find it hard to articulate some of these things and then you'll get asked a lot of questions because it won't make sense.
Right.
So. And that will show you where the holes in your understanding of the concepts and the philosophies that you're trying to espouse within your sales are. So, you know, comment you know, ask a friend down below and, you know, go through and literally ask your friend to see if you can show them your process, maybe even show them a sales call. And that will give you a much, much greater and deeper understanding of the sales process that you take people through every single day, which will make you better at it. All right, guys, don't forget to, like, subscribe. Hit the notification bell. And thanks to Ben. Awesome.
