Exposed: Why I left my CEO position and the truth about Sales Sniper.

There's compliance, there's law, there's regulatory stuff. There's taxes. There's like not an infinite well of money at all times. And so you have to kind of be the one who's like, no a lot.

Yeah.

You know, so CEOs either like drive the ball forward in like a massive way or they're there to make sure that the wheels don't fall off. Ex special forces sniper turned entrepreneur. I've scaled numerous businesses to eight figures. My name is Matt Ryder. This is my podcast and I'm telling you to put that coff down.

Hello.

Hello, Patrice. Good to be back. Begin. Hey guys. Welcome to the episode of Coffee is for Closers. We're back in the new and improved studio.

Yeah, well, we're just facing the other way.

It's the all new studio. It's 10 million dollar studio. Same as Coffeezilla's. We moved into a skyscraper.

Yeah.

I bought it. None of that happened. We are just facing the other way. And I put a couch.

Yeah.

Let's change the scooter holiday.

Why not mixing things up.

We're having another go at it.

Yeah.

What's.

You've had a lot going on. A little bit.

Tell us.

Talk about all that.

Yeah.

All the dirty goss.

Okay.

Probably not too much because I'm legally obligated.

Yeah.

I was gonna say how much of.

This can we get a hook. I'm gonna give you all the juicy secrets about why I left seventh level and. Or the nasty business.

Okay.

But not really. That's the hook.

Yeah.

Right. Clickbait.

Yeah.

Yeah. So I'm out.

Yeah, totally out.

So.

Yeah.

We. Last time we were in here you were telling me about how seventh level's full steam ahead. Everything's churning there. Sales sniper's taking a backseat.

Yeah. Turns out I was wrong.

Yeah.

We've done a full 180. That's why there's. Everybody's been so busy.

There's.

We had planned to start trying to do this properly again.

Yeah.

That just was not the case to make money.

Yeah.

So what happened?

Tell us.

Tell us what you can.

Yeah, I mean I don't. Yeah. I don't really care. I'll always sort of tell the truth. I'll leave out some things. But like, you know, for the most part I just sort of. You know. You know, I think that there's like a. The average life run of a CEO is like two years. That's about the average. I think the reason for that being is one. It's like not a super Pleasant job, you know, like when you're doing it, there's like not pretendy, you know, when you're actually doing it. And so I think you start to.

What do you mean by that? You mean like the hard decision making part of that? Is that what you mean in the.

Yeah.

Not pretendies. Like you've gotta upset people.

Yeah.

That what you mean?

Yeah. Well, it's just like you don't have any peers.

Yeah. Okay.

So you can have. I have two business partners. But like, you sort of have to manage relationships and you have to like, you know, you have to play the role that you're there to fulfill, which is like the one who's like, I guess, for lack of a better term, like the adult in the room. Right. Everyone's ambitious and smart and wants to do certain things. And it's like you're the one who has to kind of go like, yeah, but there's compliance, there's law, there's regulatory stuff, there's taxes, there's like not an infinite well of money at all times. And so you have to kind of be the one who's like, no. Yeah, a lot.

Yeah.

You know, so CEOs either like drive the bull forward in like a massive way or they're there to make sure that the wheels don't fall off, you know. And like there's, there's two roles here. I've done both of them. The one where you're driving the bull forwards is way more fun. But, you know, it sort of got to a point where I think I'd just done it for long enough. And I was like, it's just not like a fun job anymore. And I don't think personality wise I'm the guy to do that in the long term. In the long term, I think like I could come in and grow stuff and then sort of like deuces, I'm out. Because it is like, it's a, it's a different type of person, I think that can take a company that's sort of going pretty well and like keep the wheel moving forward for like a long period of time. And there's just tons of stuff that I don't know, you know, like, you know, you sort of learn all these new things every day. Like, I've got a new project that I'm doing, which I'll talk about in a second. But I started learning about the fcc, which is like the Federal Communications Commission, which is all around the tele sales rules.

Okay.

You know, turns out you can't do any of the stuff we were doing.

Right.

Triple, darling. Can't do it. Triple dialing. Yeah. So like, dial da Dao to get someone to pick up. Right. You can't do that. You can't call someone more than seven times in seven days. Every state is different. So, like, in Florida, if you call someone after 8pm, it's a crime, really. Yeah, it's a crime on Sundays. You can't call anyone in the US.

How does that work in regards to. If you're not in Florida but you.

Call someone, it doesn't matter. It. The, the crazy thing is it doesn't even matter if their phone prefix is in Florida, Right. If they're in Florida at the time.

Okay. So they're on holiday. You have no idea. It's me. Yeah, I'm on my Australian number. Yeah, I'm in Florida. You call me on the weekend, you go to jail, motherfucker.

Pretty. I mean. Yeah. You know, like, if it's, if it's a telemarketing call. Yeah, it is. Or tele sales, you know, so, like, they're, you know, it's probably not jail, but, like, the thing is, like, you can't hide from it.

Yeah.

Because the telcos monitor everything.

And so as Snowden told us.

Yeah. But like, it's all algorithmically tracked because the way that it works is, like, there's like a telco and then there's an analytics company that sits over the top, which is independent.

Okay.

And so that analytics company monitors every in and out and every action on behalf of the dialer and the person picking up. And so if someone gets gone. Ugh. And, and, and, and, and all the time it's like, well, that's odd. That's coming from that number. So it starts to go, well, that's a spam, right? How many times are they calling? How many? You know what I mean? And then it starts to sort of, like, algorithmically limit putting together the sort of pickup rates.

Yeah.

And so there's a lot of other things, and I'll go into that in a minute, but, like, you know, you sort of just learn tons of new stuff. And so it's just like, man, like, I feel like you kind of need someone who's been to 100 million, you know, like, you can only, like, sort of pathfind for so long before you need someone who's like, oi, come this way, you know? And like, we didn't. I didn't have anyone that could do that because, like, again, it's different. Again, if you're you know, say, like, Kim.

Right.

Brilliant, genius guy. But again, like, dealing with huge, huge companies for the most part, that 30, 40 million to 100 million, I'm sure, is a very unique journey. And in the same way, from zero to 30 years. You know what I mean? So it's sort of like, it's difficult to find people that could, like, give you the appropriate things for the appropriate time, you know, because you can overcook a business to where it's like, just this huge monstrosity of a thing, and it's just, like, unprofitable. And you can undercook it to where it's just like a teaming cesspool of sales and marketing and nothing else. And it's, like, hard to play the balancing game, especially if you don't know what you're doing.

Yeah.

And if you don't know what's around the corner, it's sort of like you have to be a little bit trepidatious, which isn't ideal if you're trying to grow. So I was like, all those things, plus, like, I think just differences of opinions.

Yeah.

You know, and, like, I'm such a forceful character, I suppose. Right. That, like. Like, if I'm there and, like, not in charge, it's not going to work. So, like, because the original plan was like, I'll step down, Marco can become CEO, and then I'll be on the board and do a different division. But it's like, well, if that is actually done properly, like, what are they going to tell me what to do, you know? Good luck with that, man. I've told people I was in the army. I've never had a boss. Not someone I truly consider a boss. You know what I mean? Like, ask Jace. He was my boss.

I can attest to that.

Yeah.

Like, it's just not going to happen.

Yeah.

Full respect to them, but, like, I just don't see it that way for some whatever reason, for better or for worse. But I think knowing that about myself, I was just like, I just don't see that going well.

Okay.

And I was on one board meeting, and I was like, oh, I should. I. I'm done. I'm out completely.

So you're out of seventh level polis. Polis. Totally.

I don't even have an email.

Got nothing to do.

I mean, I didn't know that was going to happen, but a day's notice would have been handy. But, hey, man, G suite's not. G suite's not cheap.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, $22 a month per person.

For realsies?

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay.

So I had to call my bank and make a few emergency phone calls. But anyway, it's all good.

So totally out of seventh level firing back up Sales Sniper. So as we, I think we discussed it last time, that Sales Sniper has been sort of not dormant. It's working. It's just at a much reduced sort of skeleton stuff. Just doing the four or five clients that you had.

I think it was like three.

Yeah.

And you just had the processes in place, ticking those guys over. Everything is running well for them, but now you're bringing everybody back in and spooling the whole thing back up.

Yeah.

So we started doing that, I would say like 1st of March is sort of when I really sort of stepped back in and properly I signed up like six accounts. Six accounts pretty quick. The goal is to only have six, so we probably have like eight with two in the pipeline. So that'll give us 10, which will give me a good like 90 day filling out period to be able to be like, oh yeah, these are the ones that we should keep. And then I've just got a couple of other like projects on the go with different things that we're doing. But the go with Sniper is like I figured out how to run at this time. Like I know the mistakes that I've made in the past and you know, it's a, like, I mean the business is a great business. Like, I mean I didn't look at it for two years and never made less than, you know, 300k a month.

Right.

Just sort of like, yeah, diddly bobbing along. The only issue was like, it just was housing a lot of stuff that wasn't it? It was seventh level staff, but it was acting as like the Australian employee holder, you know.

And how's that affecting you? As much as you can talk about in that a lot of the staff that you had in South Sniper ended up migrating over to seventh level.

Yeah.

And so are they staying there? They're coming back across?

Yeah, no, I just like I, I took people like ask me what should I do? I said, oh, I still don't respect for you. Like, yeah, like, yeah, you know, whatever.

So you're not poaching people out of it. It's that you're smacking back up and they're free to do whatever they're.

Yeah, I couldn't give a. Like, yeah, like, you know, like there's so many people on the planet, you know, finding people to do stuff isn't that difficult, you know, like I Did one post on Facebook. I had 101 submissions for sales reps. You know, I was unsure of which. 97 of which are garbage. Yeah, like, yeah, I need a few, you know, so. And I've got like a really good SDR system, which is like the outbounders. I've got a, I hooked up with this team in like Africa and like in like Ethiopia. And so we're, we've partnered and man, I've got like nine or ten of them I think so far. And I've probably placed like eight or nine more. No, even more. I probably placed like 15 more.

Yeah, right.

And they're awesome. Like incredible. Like they just absolutely go for it. I've messed with all the levels before, so it should be. Yeah, okay, sweet. So, yeah, so that's going really well. I'm happy with that. And then that's going to go into the next venture, which is the SDR call center.

Okay, so tell me about that. I don't know anything about that.

Yeah, no, so I had, I've had the idea for a long time, which is like SDRs are like a really.

Tough one because what does SDR stand for?

So sales development rep, same as an isr, which is like a. Just an outbounder.

Yeah.

Someone who's booking your calls.

Yeah.

Or just even selling low ticket products or whatever. But generally speaking, the way that it's done at the moment is like, it's sort of like a newbie sales rep.

Okay.

The problem with that is that like they're kind of like the first point of contact that people have with the business. And so to have that be like a newbie is kind of an issue. And they're like a top of funnel activity. So the more effective they are, the more successful the business is by a long shot. Like even like a really good quality SDR can have a greater impact on the business than a really good closer can because they can produce way more. Like a good SDR will produce like 25% lead to schedule. So if you give them 500 leads, they give you like 125 sales calls back. Those leads might only cost you seven or eight bucks a lead. So they're like producing you a metric boatload of opportunity and then it's up for the guys to close them, you know. But if you had like a team of savage SDRs, like it's better than having a team of savage closers because you just have way more opportunity.

Okay.

And you're like not relying on booked calls from marketing, which is really difficult and it like is really hard to crack and to like to do it cheaply.

So talk to me like I'm an idiot on this. The SDR crew, they're going after people who you've already got. Like, they're people who, it's like name.

You a phone number.

Yeah.

And you've already got that through one way or another. You've ended up with that. Give that to those guys and then say, hey, book me calls off of these guys. And when you say coming in through marketing, they're new leads that they're coming into.

Yeah. Or sometimes they're older.

Yeah.

I mean, but like, I mean so like it might be no shows, no sales cancellations, reschedules, or people that, you know, you know, 90 days ago opted in for something but for whatever reason it just, they didn't get on a call or some shit like that. We're not doing like really, really old lead just because like the numbers kind of blow out on those. And also like there's a lot of regulations happening at the moment in the insurance industry to stop the age leads business because in the insurance though, they'll sell three year old leads.

Right.

Which is like, it's not great for like the person getting those calls, you know, like they're being called constantly for three years because they bought a house.

Yeah, yeah.

Mortgage section, mortgage protection, you know, like all this kind of. So they just get hounded and the leads will be sold 70, 80 times.

Yeah.

Like what a business model, right?

Yeah.

Selling leads, it's just crazy.

But so like that. So that's the model. And so generally Speaking it's like 20 year olds, you know, that don't that see that role as a pass through, as a way to get opportunity, but not really learning how to sell, you know, and like this. And like they usually don't try very hard because they're just lazy, man.

Right.

You know, they think like 200 a day is a lot. It's like when is it auto dollar does dolls $4aminute. Like what are you, what do you mean? Like you worked for.

Yeah, you were trying conversations. There's a lot of conversations.

Yeah.

$200 is not a lot.

No, exactly. So, you know, they only ever work like, to be honest, man, like a lot of SDRs, I reckon you could boil them down to 90 minutes a day on average, like of actual work. And they want a base and they get a commission because. And technically SDR should probably be employees. If you really sort of want to break it down. If you have like a US based company and a US based sdr. You're telling that person what to do, when to do it and you're giving them company tools. That ticks every fucking box for an employee. So the department of labor is not going to be happy with you playing them as a contractor on comms on your own base plus comm. So really you should have them as an employee. And then which is going to be paid time off. You've got benefits, most likely a whole host of other things. So you're probably going to reality that person's base is 60k, you know, once you're all in and then you got to pay them comms on top. And they're really not very effective for the most part. And it's very hard to hold them accountable. And the systems that they use, like the system that we used at seventh was close. It's just not meant for it like so you end up dying. What happens is like your pickup rates get lower and lower because it keeps getting flagged. And the industry as a standard, the SOP for that is to rotate out the numbers. It doesn't work.

How come?

Because the telcos, it's all coming from the same place. Yeah, yeah, like you're just spoofing numbers. Essentially one hub with a bunch of different numbers and you're just rotating through them like, like who? Like who are you following? You know, And I thought that was the way to do it until I actually looked into it. I was like, oh, I'd love to do this call center idea. Because like it was my frustration at seven was like, I just don't. I like the guys in the department, but the department itself is just very expensive. There's a lot of bases, there's a management team, there's a whole thing that goes around it. And I was like, I just don't see the fucking roi. But, but if you don't have it then it's like you have to really drop your lead flow or figure something else out, right? So I was like, I'd love to do this but then I just started having a look at like software solutions and nothing did it until you go to like the enormous softwares where you have like a 500 to a thousand seat minimum, right? And I was like, oh, what can they do? And then I was like, oh, they can do everything. And so, and they have all the FCC and FTC rules built into the software so you can't break them.

Right.

You know, like a do 10 times. It just won't let You. Yeah, they're just not. Sorry, mate. You don't, you know. And then one of the big.

So these are the systems that much bigger companies, like, if you have to be huge though.

Yeah.

To have a thousand people need to use it.

I had to sign up to a contract that was. I negotiated down to 300 seats.

Right.

And you struggle to use those.

Right. I reckon I'll figure it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I'll be all right. I think I'll be able to get up to there in like five months.

Yeah, yeah.

So where's all this going to be based?

Well, I mean, the company's based here.

Yeah.

The software is obviously software.

Yeah. Right.

And then the outbanders would be predominantly in Ethiopia and then most of the clients will be in the US Right. Fair few layers. Yeah, A couple of corporate layers going on there.

Okay.

So.

And this is going to be servicing like new clients here at Sales Sniper.

I mean. Yes, because like the like. So right now, like I said, the model is like, essentially people get SDRs placed from different companies, but they're all just like very bad sales reps.

Right.

For the most part. And then if you get someone who's good, they like, they're not going to stay. And because they're good, you don't want to promote them, you know, because they're doing really well.

Yeah.

And like. Yeah, so you're trapped. Exactly. And you know, I was speaking to one the other day that used to work for me and like after I left seventh and he was like, yeah, I was just sort of told, you know, that no. And so he left. I was like, yeah, that's fair enough. And I see it from both sides. I think it's both conversations are fair enough.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

You know, so he just sort of left. But.

So your plan then is to. To specially train a bunch of SDR people and have them really high end good at doing that, but without a view to becoming sales reps or something like that. Like have them like, this is my job and this is what I want to.

But they don't hire anyone, they just hire the company.

Explain that to me.

Well, they can have 20 people on their account or they could have one.

Right, okay, yeah, it doesn't matter.

And they're just going to pay by the hour. 20 bucks an hour, $5 of booking.

Yeah, Right.

That's it.

And then that then just feeds into either if they're a client here or into their own system.

Right.

Like to their own closes.

So they just give Us the booking list.

Right.

Give us where you want us to send them, hand us, give us the leads. We'll have like a port and it's a data compliant port. So if there is like financial information, I don't know if anyone knows out there, but if you have someone's income on a type form or something and you port that data using Zapier, you're breaking a few different rules.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, yeah. Same as like someone's weight.

Oh, really?

Yeah, if you have someone's weight on like a Google sheet, name, phone number, email weight, like that's health.

Yeah.

You know, when you actually look into it, it's like, oh, yeah, everyone's breaking the law.

Yeah.

You know, and it's just like. Yeah, like, obviously you've got to be okay with like, well, I can't do everything perfect, right?

Yeah, yeah.

But it's like, you know, I'll be like the only compliant solution. Yeah. And like, you know, it's like with the regulators coming down the industry, I feel like it's a good place to be. And with the way that SDRs are done, like, no one is happy.

Tell me more about that. When you say regulators coming down on the industry, like that's something that you just kind of say, like it just gets thrown out.

Yeah.

But like in reality, what. What is that for real? And hang on, I got a cough.

So every industry goes through a part where like, it's a new, like coaching itself, right. It's pretty new. It's been around for a long time. But it's sort of like in co hit this huge boom.

Yeah, right.

We're like, you know, and then so boom, time happens, Right. Early adapters make a shitload of money.

Right.

I'm one of them. Fantastic. One of the OGs in 20 years, back in my day, he said, you want it? You know, then there'll be, there'll be an AI FTC on every single call at some point, muting people. But. And then from there, like regulators step in and they go, all right, cowboys, calm the down.

Yeah.

They take a few big actors and they smack the living bejesus out of them.

And has that happened?

Yeah, yeah.

To who?

Yeah, well, Taylor got done.

Yeah.

And then ANNEX and Gaul is another one that got done.

And what, what happened in those cases? Like, what do they get done for picture stuff or like.

I mean, Taylor's was. Was big. I mean, the, the first really big one was probably Kevin Dave.

Yeah. What happened with him?

I mean, he got $52 million worth of fine. So the way that they do it is basically they take all your money. Yeah. So you get fined this huge amount, then they settle for everything you have.

Right, okay.

That's brutal. Yeah. And like, so they look and go.

You'Re probably worth 30 million. You're hiding some somewhere that we won't be able to find.

Yeah, no, but if they, if they ever find it.

Yeah, but.

So we'll sting you with a $52 million fine.

Yeah. Basically they, every single dollar he made in his business, they made him give back to clients.

Wow.

Now you obviously can't do that.

Yeah, yeah.

People are like, where'd the 52 million go? It's like, well, mate, there's expenses.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? And Lambos aren't cheap. And he had two. You know, actually one of the things that I spoke to Taylor about it, um, Taylor's really open because sort of I felt really sorry for Taylor because like he probably didn't deserve to be done. Yeah, I mean like some of their marketing was a little bit sort of, how's your father out there? But I don't think there's any more egregious than anybody else. But he was like being impersonated by somebody and that's what did it.

Wow.

So that person is a real piece of shit.

Someone you know.

His name is Mike.

Right.

And he knows that. Oh yeah. I told him this piece of. Straight to his face. I saw him.

So he worked for him or something like.

No, he's just a dude runs a scam. This guy called, his name is Mike and he ran a business called Limewire.

Which is a scam and he's a piece of Limeway.

Limewire. Yeah. So it was like a, it was like a MLM sales training. So basically he was like, hey, I'll sales train you and I'll guarantee you a 5k offer. The sales training is 5k. Can you guess what the offer is?

Yeah. Right.

But mate, like, so I, I, I got onto it because like they were farming the closing code group. This is a few years ago. And it was like a 15 year old Nigerian kid. I was. And he started messaging me. So I went down the rabbit hole and then I put him onto James and James went through the full sales process and then was like, hey man, you know this isn't like this is a pyramid scheme, right? And he sort of told him through and then he was like, oh shit, this poor fucking kid, man. He's like leverage his world to get this 5k sold the dream Total.

Right.

And like, and then it just be like, Mike the Limewire whole thing just like sort of just spread like a virus amongst all these, like 15, 16 year olds. And I'm sure other people, and I'm sure there were some guys that meant well in it, but it was a bit of a pyramid scheme. And then they sort of started imitating like, Sales Mentor, which is the sales arm of Traffic and funnels, like the. Which is Taylor's company. There's traffic and Funnels, just like business coaching and marketing. And there's like Sales Mentor, which was the sales stuff. And I did the course. It was pretty good. And me and Taylor have a good relationship. Like, I spoke to him. Like, I did a. I was chatting while I was having breakfast, like yesterday. And so that sort of got tipped off about all these pissed off people started complaining to the FTC about Sales Mentor, but it actually wasn't him.

Yeah, right.

It was this other guy. And then from there, like, that's what tipped him off. And then it took him like a year to convince him that he wasn't him. And then they're like, well, while we're.

Here, we'll just go for a look around.

Yeah, go for a look around. And the funny thing was, like, this is what he told me. He was like. He was like, well, like, we've recorded. They had like every sales call recorded and stuff like that. And they were like, you know, we're above this and we've done all this. And they're like, sweet, send us all your sales calls. He's like, well, there's 40,000 of them. They go, send them all that. And so they went through, like, every sales call, all this and that. They had to prove every single testimonial. But they did it, like, because they were actually good at what they did. They probably grew too quickly. But he's quite young. He's like 27 or something like that. Just like a big company to run for this, for the age that he was. I did a podcast with him, talked all about it. But yeah, so he got done. But he's okay. Like, he's fine. But like, they froze assets and it's the whole thing, man. Like, it's a big deal. Like, a very stressful time. And like, Anik is another very good actor. Like, there was like, no complaint. It was weird. He had, like, no complaints. He had, like, no real chargebacks refunds. It was like someone's cousin at the ftc, like, went, whatever, right? Like, for real. And he walked into the FCC Building. And, like, some of the dudes who were there started taking photos with him. They're like, oh, my God, Nick. Like, harry, I love your stuff. Like, it's so good. And they're like, what are you here for? I was like, man. I mean. And that was like, the actual ftc, like, employees.

Yeah. Right?

It's crazy. And so he had all of his sales calls rated on, like, a compliance level. Like, he took it seriously. And he's like, yeah, so we rate all of our sales calls in compliance of 1 to 5. And they go, which one's better? They go 5. They go, send us all the ones. That's what they said the other way around. Yeah. So. Yeah, man. Like, they. And they just follow the money, you know, and, like, it's designed to fuck over bad people.

Yeah.

Like bad actors. The problem is, like, it's just very hard to tell, you know, I mean, because, like, marketing is marketing, you know, but there's things like, you can't stand in front of a fancy car.

Why explain that?

It's because it's. The implication is that if you do it, I say you can have one.

Yeah. Okay.

It's called a. What's it called? Like, a intent. I can't remember the name of it, but there's like, a specific name for it where it's like, it's an implication.

Yeah.

You know, and. And so, like, there's just all these rules, and it's just like, what a Fascinating.

So for Talia to go down, like, what did. Like, what actually did he do?

Like, what was.

It was. So FTC is marketing. It's marketing and sales practices, basically. Like, they don't want. There it is. I think. I think it's a net positive. Like, but I think that the way they go about it is probably not correct. And it's because, like, they don't feel that the new age marketers are real marketers. Like, the lady who runs it is like 70. You know, it's like if you didn't go to Harvard and study marketing and you like, what, the fucking ads? Yeah. And like, you know, if you don't have a business degree, like, you have no. You have no business talking about it, you know, which, like, whatever. And that administration will probably turn over. You know, every single time they go to the Supreme Court, they lose. Like, they do not act in a legal way.

The ftc.

Yeah.

They're bullies.

Right.

A lot of the time, if you do fight them, you will probably win, but it will cost you $10 million to do it. And you can't trade.

Yeah. Okay.

They tie you up for that.

Period. Oh, they tie you up. So like they freeze all your personal accounts and your business bank accounts. So how are you supposed to fight?

Yeah, there's a lot of power.

Yeah, it's a lot. And they freeze you before they. So they freeze you at the beginning of the investigation.

Wow.

With no notice. Like, I remember I looked at this one trial and it was like the mother had her, the guy's mother had her cats frozen. And like, no telling. She just went to the shops and couldn't buy anything.

Yeah.

She was like 82.

Yeah.

And it's because he'd been paying, he'd paid his mom 50 grand like a couple years before.

Yeah.

And it was like, oh, well, that's money. That's like you're siphoning money to your family. We'll freeze them too. So it's crazy, man. And the, and the ACCC acts as like a, an arm for them.

Right.

So the ACCC is in Australia's region.

Yeah. Matthew Lloyd was like the big one. That was the guy. He ran a one called Wealth Masters or whatever it was. Okay, we know someone who was pretty heavily involved in it.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, we'll talk about it.

We know someone.

Yeah.

As in. I do.

You've definitely seen many videos.

Okay.

Right. And Matt, they, they, they were doing like a well over 100 million and it was like a series of events that they would sell. But I don't really know a lot about it, but I know it was very, very lucrative and very, very high profit.

Yeah.

And that when he got done, like he had a private island.

Yeah. Okay.

Right, right. And it was like, that was a huge takedown. Huge monstrous takedown that was like one of the biggest ones the FTC had ever done. Okay, but like every Fortune 100 company's been done.

Yeah.

Like there's not a single big, big company that hasn't been done by the.

Fts in one way or another.

It's almost just like a way for them to get revenue.

Yeah.

Because they just know there's no point trying to fight them.

Well, and there's an arduous process. If their laws are so complex, numerous. You can't possibly get it.

No, you really, you really can't. And they change all the time. So like, there's just no way to stay up to date with it. Even if you have a full time compliance officer like you. You know, when you're a big company and you have a lot of marketing Going on. Like, the amount of administrative drag down that you would have just checking things.

Yeah.

It would be. Would be like, it's just. It's not worth it. Like, you're better off just doing the best you can. And I think, like, that should be reasonable.

Yeah.

Whether they consider it to be or not, you know, I think that it's there to protect, you know, dumb people from being scammed by smart people.

Yeah.

That's not a bad thing.

Yeah.

You know, but it's not like, you know, people are out there trying to sell the Eiffel Tower.

Yeah.

You know, but.

Well, it is. There is. I mean, I. I've said it on this podcast before. When I got done by the FTX and I had crypto on ftx, I got big mad about that because I was like, these are nerds that stole ones and zeros from me. I. That Sam Bankman, Frieda or whatever. Like, putting him in a room is very different conversation that's happening there. But when it's ones and zeros at the distance, I don't understand any of that. And he did, and he got me. And, like, I'm very happy with people checking and making sure that dummies like me don't get ripped off by it.

Yeah. I guess the dummy thing is all a. It's all relative, right?

Yeah, exactly.

Because again, I know nothing about crypto.

Yeah.

I know how to lose it.

You're best at losing it.

I might. I might beat you, I think.

Yeah.

I mean, in volume, lost, perhaps.

You beat. Yeah.

Yeah.

But ability to lose. I'm the guy.

Yeah.

And it's back now, and it just makes me want to get in, but, like, no, no, I'm out.

I'm out for sure. I'm out.

I had, like, two bitcoin. I sold it for a loss. I should have just kept it.

Yep.

I can't remember what I had, but it's gone. The whole platform's gone.

Oh, my. All got lost at anchor.

Yeah, I think I had some of that, didn't I?

Anchor. It was supposed to be like the safest thing on the.

On.

On crypto. And it just. And it was two billionaires arguing, and that's what did it. That was the thing. It was like, just.

Yeah.

Like, it was just a argument between two guys, and one guy had more power and just was like, I know what I'll do. I'll. Everyone around.

Yeah.

I'll sing for fun.

Yeah.

And I'll sink you.

And thousands and thousands.

Yeah.

I had 150,000 US? Yeah, in it, you know, but, oh, well, easy come, easy go.

So back on track. That, that compliance thing is obviously a big thing on your mind presently. And so everything that within your power now going forward is like you're paying obviously paying a lot of attention to that.

Yeah, I just want to be, I just want to, like, I think that there's sort of your money taken from you. Yeah. But I think, like, I think that there's ways to do things properly and I think that, you know, the industry is at a time where it's going to have to figure that out, you know, and so I think if I can find something like this, this solution that I've got for dialing and this like this. I think the SDR whole thing is a problem anyway in the whole industry. I just don't think it's very productive for the sdr, for the bit business. Like, it's just everyone's angry about it all the time. Like it's the only thing. It's the main problem that I hear people bitching about.

Right.

And so I was like, well, I think I can solve that and so I'm gonna try it. It's like, it's a bit risky because it's quite expensive, you know, to set up. Well, I had to agree to like a $50,000 a month, three year contract.

Wow. Okay.

You know, so it's like, all right, that's.

That'S a start.

And you have to agree to it like before you build it.

Yeah.

So I'm like, okay.

And so that is the software that the STMs will be using.

Yeah. And like they won't decide a thing. Like, they will just log in and go and go. And they won't decide a person to dial, they won't decide a list. They will have no control over what happens. Everything will be done as per how I design it. So like if you, if you come to me and go, hey man, I want you to call my leads, I can go quit. How, how fast of a speed delete do you want? You can go four minutes. I go, okay, stun.

Yeah, yeah.

And if you go to me and go, hey, like, who are the people who are booking in? I go, well, the average person booking in is Georgia. And your pickup rates are highest in Louisiana.

You have all that data?

Yeah, yeah.

And I can every second and I can just go to you, well, how fast do you want the 100 hours to go?

And, and who are your clients that you're looking at for that?

So I've Already got a bit of a wait list because I've been in touch like. So Taylor is going to be Taylor's new company, which is actually really cool. Sort of like he's sort of. It's funny in his ads he like says little things that he can't say. It's quite, it's quite clever. He's like. Because he's quite knowledgeable on all the FTC stuff obviously.

Yeah.

And so it's good to see that like you can be really compliant and still be quite successful.

Yeah.

And he's got this new business called like the Wealthy Consultant. So he'll be one of the first clients. Cool. We've got. And then I've got like a. About 25 businesses.

Right, okay.

Are going to like are sort of pretty interested. And then I've got like.

So they're in the pipe waiting for you to set this up.

Yeah. So it's being built but it takes like, you know, nine to 12 weeks to build it. Right. So I've got a meeting with the software company tomorrow to sort of.

Where are they?

They're in the U.S. they're U.S. based but they're huge. They're in their global.

Yeah.

Monstrous global company. And they're just a really good level solution and they sort of explained to me why all the stuff that I was doing because I was like, these are my frustrations and they're like, yeah, yeah. And they just explained to me why everything I was doing would never do anything. And I was like, that makes sense. No wonder it kept getting worse.

And so you reckon in the sort of coaching consulting space, there's nobody. You're probably the first one taking the step out to this sort of solution.

Well, there are people doing call centers but they're pretend.

Right.

Because so what do you mean by that?

Well, they're using like the off the shelf dialing solutions that everybody uses and that's.

So what's the difference? What makes a call center like. No, this is a real one. This is a real call center.

It's the ability to negotiate with the telcos.

Right.

Explain that to me.

Well, if you get flagged, you have to be unflagged.

Yeah.

The only way to be unflagged is to have pull with the telcos and the data companies.

Right.

And like the company that I'm going with, they just call them.

Right.

And they said it's about a three day turnaround from the time you get flagged.

Right.

And then you'll be unflagged and then you have a 0.01% chance of ever getting flagged again.

Wow, nice.

Because the thing that they're the data companies, they can't tell if you're scraping and buying leads or if you're actually producing inbound. So I'm doing inbound, so I'm allowed to call these people. They don't know that.

Yeah.

And so this software provides evidence to them through the companies that make the software.

There's such a large conglomerate, like, they're huge. Right. They have like millions and millions and millions of phone numbers and they would produce a ton of money for these tocos. Yeah. And you know, and they're like, probably one of the frontline, I would say, analytics that give the telcos, you know, like data and stuff like that. And so they just go, yeah, yeah, we just call them.

Yeah.

I was like, oh, sweet. That's like, okay.

And when you say you get flagged, is that the operation as a whole or a single number?

It's a single number. But then, like it happens again.

Yeah.

And then it happens again. And then they just go, oh, where's that coming from? And they go from there and they go, sweet, just flag the again.

Yeah, yeah.

And everyone's using Twilio.

What's that?

Yeah. So Twilio is like where Most of the CRMs get their numbers.

Right.

So the moment you're buying a number from Twilio, whereas we buy our. We're going to buy our numbers direct from AT&T, you know, whereas everyone else uses Twilio.

Right.

So Twilio automatically is like the voip number place.

Right.

Whereas like ours will be actual, real life, goddamn freedom loving us phone numbers. You know what I mean? So actual phone number. Yeah, and it'll have like local area recognition, so we'll have like multiple phone numbers for every area code, you know, and it will dial to those area codes, which means we'll have higher pickup rates and contact rates. And you're actually allowed to do like predictive dialing, whereas you're not really allowed to do it in other softwares because, like, it's just not compliant unless you do it in a very particular way, which means you call like all the numbers at once. The never picks up, gets routed to an agent, but you really, you can do that if you have a lot of agents. So, like, I've got 300 that are sitting there being trained right now. And so we're going to introduce them one at a time. But like, you know, I'll probably put 50 on straight away. You Know, and just go, like, all right, let's go.

Yeah.

And then, you know, sort of they'll get. So they'll just have things pop up, the script pops up, everything pops up about what they're selling and who they're selling to. They'll be segmented to maybe one to two different kind of businesses, or depending on the volume, maybe three different businesses. Some will have their own dedicated, like, teams if they're, like, high volume enough, you know, but like. Like, one of my guys are probably out said four or five, because, like, one though, they'll be talking on the phone all day.

Yeah.

They won't just be sitting there because, like, on one of my accounts right now, like, the close is burned. So, like, I'm putting in other solutions, but, like, sort of.

How do.

What do you mean by that?

Well, the, like, the pickup rate is 1%.

Okay.

And it's straight to voicemail. That's how you really know when the account's done, when everything's straight to voicemail. Because that means that Android and iOS have flagged it, which is the last things that happen.

Right.

So as soon as Android and iOS flag it, like, any. I mean, you can call Huawei phones, I mean, but that's about it.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, so Anything, Android or iOS, it'll immediately go to voicemail.

Right.

And then what they do is with iOS now, it goes to, like, a live voicemail.

Yeah.

So you can see what's on the screen.

Yeah.

And so you can listen to the voicemail live and then decide to pick up or not.

Yeah, yeah.

So now let's pick it up.

Yeah.

But even, like, you know, it's all inbound unless people are asking to be cool, but they're not really getting the chance. So it's kind of shitty for everyone. But it's like, fair enough, because people are abusing the systems, I guess. Yeah. But the systems are not designed to be used in that way, so then you sort of have to abuse them, you know, so it's. It's just sort of like a bit of a chicken egg type thing. But it's interesting. It's interesting, but I'm looking forward to seeing what happens when we get our guys who are already outperforming anyone I've ever seen. You know, 150 book calls a month is insanity. You know, most of the time these guys are happy with two a day.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, I mean, like Monday to Friday, my guys are booking eight.

Yeah, yeah.

So it'll be when they actually get on Like a proper dialing system. And they're having, instead of 12 conversations a day, they're having 50.

Yeah, yeah, perfect.

So that's hammering sales. Snipers picked up. You don't want any more clients. We're not saying to people, throw a hat in the ring.

I don't think so.

We're very happy. It's just not a pitch.

No.

This is just the FYI. I haven't heard Hermosi say that in ages.

I think you're probably saying it, you're.

Probably allowed to say that.

His last ad was, I was very surprised when I saw it. It was quite. FTC is.

Oh, really?

Well, it was, this is the fastest way to make ten grand a month. And I was like, is it blitz or well played?

And what you think he's like, brushing against the, the limits of what's allowed or pushing over? I think he, he's a big target.

Kick the door in.

Yeah.

Really?

Yeah. I was surprised.

Okay.

I don't care. And I think that what he's probably saying, at least he believes is true. I mean, whether it's true or not, I don't know. I can't say it's not.

You'd think that surely somebody is keeping.

An eye on that and you'd be surprised.

Yeah.

Right. Okay.

You know, it just sort of depends on the. I think what I've learned is that first of all, you can't be across everything.

Right.

And it depends how many people you have around you that tell you no.

Evidently very important.

Like, I mean, no one tells you no.

Yeah.

Like, I don't know. But I mean, I was surprised, but I mean, whatever. I don't care.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Like, good for you.

Yeah.

And to be honest, like, I think it'd be interesting because I reckon he'd be the one that fight it.

Yeah, well, he.

And also, like, they can't get every, like, so they sort of have to link it to the business, I think. So if you have like 10 businesses, I don't think that they can get everything you have. I, I, I, I think. And also, like, if you have pooled investments, they can't go after pooled investments because anything they do can't negatively impact people that have nothing to do with it.

Yeah, sure.

Okay.

Yeah, so he, I'm sure he's fine.

He's got all so much money.

Yeah.

I don't, you know, it's coming. No, I think Alex would be just fine.

Okay. Without it.

I think he'd have more money than the ftc. I Think he'd be, you know, when it comes to making money, I think that dude's one of the. One of the goats.

Yeah.

You know, if he's not a billionaire, you know, very soon, I'd be shocked.

Yeah.

Dragony is and is keeping that under wraps.

I mean, it couldn't be that far fetched, right.

Yeah.

Although, do you reckon you keep it under wraps? Is there much stuff being kept under wraps? I feel like that'd be a big marketing positive.

Yeah.

Maybe they're waiting for the right time.

Yeah.

Or maybe the target that's on your back, like you're. You're a much less interesting target with like, still striving for that billion. Not like, I got six of them.

Yeah. Oh, billions. Oh, yeah, I got them. Okay. I'd say you'd have to be getting close to it from a net worth perspective because I think school is pretty valuable.

There was. There's that Andrew Tate thing where he was saying that he wanted to keep it under a billion because that's when they come for you.

Yeah.

And then. Just couldn't help it.

Yeah, couldn't help it. Just wanted that be.

I don't hear about Andrew that much anymore.

No, no.

The algorithm is working very hard to make sure that happens.

I'm sure that you don't hear about him.

Yeah.

Wouldn't you think?

Yeah, it's true. Like, mostly what I see of, like, first of all, I don't follow anything that would cause him to come up.

Well, he doesn't have any accounts.

No.

But it used to be.

Remember when I was working, he's on Twitter.

Only thing he's on when I was here, that was at the peak of Andrew Tate pre being banned. And I've never seen his accounts. I've never seen anything of his actual accounts come up. It's always, it's always the, the re. The content sharers, the. The other people that are making his. And so. But I've seen less of that. And the majority of what I do see if he's come up now is like comedy. Like, it's, it's ridiculous. You know, like, it's. It's not even.

He's great. Like, his. I think he's got a podcast that him and Tristan do.

Yeah.

Well, I think that's what they do all day, is that they just sit there and just talk in a microphone. No, they just talk shit. And then it's recorded and people do it with this. Yeah, says these two guys. All right, I'm rabbit it up. Let's wrap it up.

All right.

All right. That's it.

Another episode. Sweet episode. Something.

Yeah.

I lost track of three.

Yeah.

Like red, all that.

If we. If we'll.

If we keep going on the. If we keep going on the path, maybe we'll be able to do this again at some point.

Yeah. Yeah. A year or two time. You know, it's funny. I get told all the time, you should really focus on your personal brand. I think it would do really well. And I go, I'd love to. I. I don't think I have it in me. I don't care enough about what people think.

Yeah.

I think you have to really give.

A. Yeah, it's a tricky one.

I don't have it in me, but I like doing this. Yeah, it's fine if you like it. Tell me you like it if you don't. Whatever.

Yeah.

Just yell that down in an empty hallway.

Yep.

All right.

Screaming as loud as you'd like.