Female Sales Killer Breaks Down How Men Lose Deals

You, Chris, and— okay, all right. Hey everyone, hope all are well. Uh, I've had a hiatus. I don't know who's been on my training calls before. Andrew, I know you have been elsewhere. Um, so just so you guys are clear, I can help essentially with any sales challenges that you are having pertaining to like scripts, process, whatever, you know, you can role-play, I can give you feedback. I'd say an area where, you know, I guess a focus area for me is certainly in sales EQ or emotional intelligence. So being able to adapt your approach depending on the emotional state that the person you're speaking to is in. The caveat to that is being able to understand very quickly and very accurately what emotional state the person you're speaking to is in, how to utilize that to predict what objections that you get, and, you know, therefore understanding, conversation needs to be had to prevent those objections from coming up in the first place. Using that as a means as well to diagnose any potential resistance that you're getting, whether that's sales resistance or just some type of resistance to questions that were being asked to you as a person, like whatever, whatever it is. And I suppose the reason that I, I feel and have come to find, you know, that's important but sometimes forgotten is like you guys tell me, for anyone who's dating or in a relationship, Do you approach your partner about something and speak to them exactly the same way when they're in a really good mood or, you know, or if they're stressed or angry? You know, boys, are you trying to take your missus to bed when she's in a bad mood? Probably not. There's a reason for that, right? So now the challenge is though, like, we kind of develop that emotional intelligence and emotional acuity with people that we know over a period of time. Whereas oftentimes when it comes to a sales conversation, this is the very first time that we're interacting with this human and we haven't got the benefit of having got to know them and understanding them as like a person. So we need another way to be able to do that. And then the other challenge to that can be that people often come into a sales conversation wearing a mask. Okay. However, masks are, masks require effort to wear because it's not natural. And so what do we sometimes do when we're wearing a mask? We let the mask slip. When the mask slips, that's where I get an opportunity to get a feel for the real person. So that's kind of my, my goal as quickly as possible at the beginning of the conversation is work out kind of fact from fiction. So to speak. And yeah, I mean, that in itself has really changed my relationship or my perspective of initial sales call resistance as opposed to being like, ah man, like this person's like cold and closed down. I kind of smile and I go, awesome. Like I find it's fun. And also I look at it like, perfect, you know, this is exactly what's supposed to happen. But then I just kind of smile. I'm a lot more relaxed at the start and I look at it as a bit more of a game. So yeah, that's kind of my area of expertise if that's triggering anything for anybody. But otherwise, like I said, I can help with anything that you guys are needing help with pertaining to improving the quality of your sales conversations, your results, and your bank accounts. So yeah, I'll hand it to you guys. Pop your hand up, like your little emoji hand thing up if you'd like some help, some feedback, you've got a question, and then I'll just move around the room. Make sure you don't sit on that either because like if only a few people put hands up, like I'll give those people extra time. And so if you're what, you wait to the end, you put your hand up. Now I'm like, oh great, I've just given, you know, I don't know, given Max 25 minutes because no one else bothered to put their hand up, right? So hands up if you want help and feedback, and we'll go around there. I'll go around and I'll, and I'll help. And it's not a lecture either, so if no one puts their hand up, we just end the call. Good job. All right, Andrew, how can I help? Hey. So I was wondering if you had any feedback for getting your first offer. I know it's a little bit off, but like, I want to transition from retail sales. I don't know if you saw my personal Facebook, the store closed. And a lot of stores, a lot of online things they want experience, they want call recordings and stuff that I just don't have. Yeah, okay. So I think like, I mean, you know, there's, there's no black and white feedback for any one person. You kind of have to like it. If anyone tries to force any kind of there's a right way to do things on you guys, just tell them, you know, tell them to fuck off. Like, there's not. You've got to do what's right for you. And so I would say there's a couple of things that I would look at, but like a best case scenario would be if money's not too much of a concern, as in maybe you've got some savings there, you've got a little bit of a runway, you can look at that and go, you know what, I'm okay with burning that while figure things out, then I would say make your priority an offer where it's not so much about skill, it's more about like volume, and you can just fail forward like a bazillion times a day. Um, oftentimes a really good offer to get into when you're transitioning from say in-person to remote sales would be fitness because typically it's lower ticket, typically it's higher volume, and it's just a really good way to have a heap of conversations in a day and get really good, as opposed to something that is like maybe higher ticket, where one, maybe it's a little trickier to get onto the offer, it's a bit trickier to get up and running, it's more higher ticket, but also you've got much lower call volume. And even if you're not new to remote sales, but maybe you're going on to a new offer, I would say like, you know, the more volume you have, the more conversations you can have, the, the faster you'll get good. So that would be my, like, biggest thing, you know, just take into account, you know, consider your financial situation a little bit, um, and, you know, I mean, if you've got some savings there, and again, you're cool with, like, burning it, that's what I did. I just had a bit of cash there and I went, cool, like, I'll burn through that, no problem, while I figure this out. I burned through that and some, you know what I mean? But, like, I'm here where I am now, so I wouldn't change things. But, like, that's what I did. I just went, where can I have a lot of conversations? And I went that route. And, you know, there's a few different offers out there that I'd say that'd be good for that. Committee Coaches is one because they've just got more leads that you can poke a stick at. And the good thing there is it's not a whole heap of pressure on you to like get in and be like phenomenal immediately. VShred is probably like another one because again, kind of like high volume. They're also a challenging sale. So if you can figure that out, you can crack that, you can sell anything. So yeah, does that help? Yes. Cool. And I know personally, and there's a few different committed teams, like, you know, Ryan Ortega is floating about, but also I've got, I can connect, you know, I've got someone I can link you, like, link people up with who's one of the, you know, the top teams there. And they're not asking for code reviews and things like that. They're more so just looking for, like, ethic and are you showing up and, you know, willing to do the work. So yeah, that's kind of what my take would be. Is that good? Get what you need? Yeah, sweet. All right, Max, how can I help?

Hey Laura, how are you? Can you hear me okay?

Yeah, I can hear you.

Cool, perfect.

So quick question, I'm still like, I'm going NEPQ, so Solution Awareness Part 1. If I'm pre-objection handling there, How far are you like, are you getting commit? Let's say it's like, like a, like you realize they haven't moved forward because of price. Are you getting commit? Like once you do your reframe, are you getting like commitment at the end or like how are you?

Yeah.

How are you ending it?

Yeah. So I would say that like with that first part of solution awareness, I'd say learn it in stages. There's, for example, there's no point doing the, the whole like 9 yards in that, in that first part of solution awareness if you're just not very well versed in the first part of solution awareness. I'd say that level 1 would be just getting through it, as in understanding there are kind of— there's a decision tree that happens at that point where it's like, okay, they've looked at something but didn't move forward, or they haven't looked at all, or they've tried something in the past, and understanding where do I take the conversation depending on that response? I would say that's a great place to start. How confident, how familiar, how well-versed would you say that you are in like, you know, that part of NEPQ?

Pretty, pretty good. I'm an Inner Circle.

Okay, good. Great. So hopefully pretty good.

Yeah. So I have a decent understanding. It's just more along the lines like I can, I go through my reframe with them, right? And they're like following along. And then I just don't know if that's good enough or should I go kind of like how Anthony goes about it and gets like commitment? Like, hey, are you, are you committed? Like doing like the two types?

Well, you, you tell me how good is Anthony at sales in your opinion?

He's very good.

Very good.

Okay. And so like, do you, does it, do we want to reinvent a wheel that's rolling pretty well or do you feel like if that's what Anthony's doing and he's pretty freaking good, then okay, maybe that's the standard that I am for.

No, I think, I think you're correct. So I think it's actually getting that commitment. Yeah, I think it's getting—

absolutely. Otherwise it's pointless, dude. You guys will just not— like, you may as well— like, it's like, um, I don't know, like you're baking a cake and you put most of the ingredients in and you're like, ah, it'll do, and you put it in the oven and then you're like, oh, I wonder why that didn't come out the way it was supposed to. Like, so yeah, like if you, if you, if you commit and you go in, like, go for it and like it might not always work out the way that it's supposed to, at least initially. But the more that you try it on and the more that you get clear on exactly what responses that you need, and also making sure they're not just being agreeable with you, you know, you get what you need, the more effective that will be. So, yeah, the challenging or the uncomfortable part can be, especially if we identify that they haven't moved forward because of price, and now we're looking to rehandle that and ensure that's not an objection again is like, it gets a bit uncomfortable. There's some tension now in that, in that moment, and we, we want to make sure we don't— like, our intention is right, as in like, my intention isn't to make sure you buy. Like, that's not my intention. My intention is to help you to understand that, like, that way of thinking, of allowing the price to have held you back in the past, is exactly why you're still in this situation. We're having this conversation today, right? So What I want to understand, because otherwise there's no point in us continuing to have this conversation, is that like, let's suppose this ticks all of the boxes, like you believe that this will actually help you to solve the problem you have and get you the outcome that you want. Like, even if maybe money is a concern, are you at least willing to put yourself in a resourceful state where you're willing to go, cool, this is what I need, you know, it's time to make a change. This is what I need in order to facilitate that change. Like, I'm committed to finding a way to make it work because it's okay if we get to the end and you're like, hey, Max, like, this sounds cool, but like, I don't feel like this is for me. Like, that's fine. We high five, we part ways. But like, what I don't want for you is for us to kind of get to the end of this conversation and you're like, oh man, this is exactly what I need, but ah, you know, it's, you know, it's a lot of money again. I guess I'll just stay exactly where I am because like, that's doing you a disservice. That's not why I'm here.

Yeah, I like that. Do you feel like that?

Yes, that's kind of how— that's the energy that I carry. Can you, can you feel that though? Like, my intention is like, hey, I'm here to help, but I don't give— I don't, you know, I don't give two shits whether you, whether you buy or not. Like, I want to help you. Can you, can you see that?

Yeah, super authentic.

Yeah.

Do you, do you feel like sometimes that triggers them to be like, well, what's, what's the price? And then it just kind of goes down.

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, yeah, look, and that's a fair question, and like, we'll certainly get to that. But, but again, like, my question to you is like regardless of the price. Are you at a point where, like, what do you sell, Max? Pause for a sec. What do you sell?

Yeah, so I do, uh, health, uh, health, uh, I sell for, um, a health coach that does gut, like, coaching, gut health.

Oh, okay, easy, easy. Um, yeah, so I'd go that line. Yeah, like, that's a, that's a fair question, and I'm more than happy to go over the details with you. I suppose at this point though, my question to you is, knowing that you've been in the situation you've been in for for 6 months now, like you're at a point where the bloating and the gut issues are robbing you of opportunities to make memories with your children and do this and that. Like, my question to you is like, like, how much longer are you willing to allow, you know, price and like what it costs to resolve that to hold you back? Because do you know what I mean? So yeah, I'm really— what am I doing with their focus? Because where is their focus in that question? How much does it cost? Where's their focus?

Yes, just focus on price, not the actual result.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what am I doing? Where am I redirecting that focus?

Yeah, the result.

Yeah, but also the real problem. Yeah, because they're looking at it like the real problem is the bloating and the gut issues or whatever. No, no, no. The real problem is you've known you've had this problem for however long and you've not got real help for it because you've allowed money to hold you back. And like, let's be honest, I know it's a bit crass, but like, think about a crack addict, do you know what I mean? Like, what lengths is that human being willing to go to to get what it is that they want? Or like, think of a mother and, and I don't know, their child's like trapped under something. Like, suddenly they've got superhuman strength. Like, that's resourcefulness. And so if you can shift the conversation away from price and towards like helping them to see the real problem, which has been how they like, they haven't been essentially valuing themselves enough and potentially even their family enough to look at this like an actual priority, to look at it as like a kind of nice, oh, it'd kind of be nice, I'll see what it costs. It's like, that's the real problem. So if you can help them to see that and you can create this like, ah, shit, moment for them, like they will buy. And if they don't have the money, they will find it. They'll be like, dude, like, just tell me what I need to do. Like, can I give you some money today? Because like, I'm gonna figure— you know, you'll suddenly— you'll be— you'll have people like that at you if you can help them have that epiphany, so to speak. It's where people don't, that just— you just end up having with the same objections that, you know, held them back in the past, you know?

Yeah.

Like, who they are today has got them where they are now. So we want that epiphany moment because then there's been this identity transition and now they can't look at the problem, they can't look at themselves, they can't look at their life the same way, and they will just— they will act completely differently. Yeah. Okay.

And that—

I like that—

comes down to shifting that state from like where they are and what they're focusing on into solution focus, goal focus, future focus.

Yeah. Because right now what I'm doing is I— yeah, it helps. I'm putting them into two 2 categories. I'm like, hey, you know, kind of like cost versus investment. And they'll be like, yeah, I've been viewing my health as a cost. And it's like, okay, for you to get to where you want to be, do you feel like it'd be more beneficial to actually view it as like an investment so that way you can start feeling better, XYZ? And they're like, yes. And then I go to commitment. Committed to being that person.

Start with the cost. It's like, yeah, like, you're right, there is a cost. Like, can I ask you, you know, I mean, remind me, how long has this been an issue for you? How long you've been struggling with this? Okay. And so in the past 12 months then Like, what does this cost you in terms of like, like opportunities, experiences, memories? Like, what, what does it cost you? Okay, so how— you tell me, how much longer are you willing to pay that price? Okay, so like, either way there's a price to pay, you know what I mean? It's like, it just comes down to which one you're willing to pay, you know? Which one is it? Yeah, why is that? You just see what I mean? So Like, get them to see that there's a cost either way. It's just because oftentimes it's not monetary that they're not seeing it as a cost. But it's like, what have you missed out on?

Yeah, super helpful. Thank you so much.

Yeah, my pleasure. My pleasure. All right. Juan Carlos. Hey, Laura. Hey.

Um, so I really like what— when you shared a couple of months ago with, with another coaching session, the map of consciousness.

And hey, pause for a sec. I'm really struggling with your audio. Maybe it's because I'm in my 30s now, but like, it's hard to hear you.

Okay. Yeah, probably. I'm on the street.

That's better. Just stay right there. Don't move. Okay. Go again.

Um, so I really like the map of consciousness that you shared. Um, last time that we met. And so I, I guess my question is, it's quite simple. As, as I, as I saw it and understood it, in a way, uh, it has different tools, right, to, to help, um, um, help get the, the prospect to be, to be more vulnerable, right, drop their, drop their defensiveness. And so if I think about how we integrated, for example, with the frameworks that we have, whether the MEPQ or the framework that Matt teaches us.

Yeah.

Would it be like, say, as we're following each of the stages of a call or a conversation, then the prospect gives an answer, if we are familiar enough at that point to identify quickly, okay, this is like a guilt statement, this is how can I respond to that? And then we move forward. Later, maybe they're evolving to some apathy or some desire. So is that, is that how you start inserting those little responses without altering your framework?

That's, that, that's, yeah, exactly. So, you know, your, your, your framework, think of your framework like whatever it is. Let's, if it's NEPQ or, I don't know, Colgordon, whatever it is, like think of that like your, the, the general route from one side of a battlefield to the other. It's like, it's, it's the clear path through the minefield, do you know what I mean? And right, but like every now and then, depending on who we're speaking to, there might be a, there might be a mine here, okay? And what a lot of sales reps do is just go, oh well, I always walk this way, and then just, you just walk that way and you step on the mine, you know what I mean? So generally speaking, it's like that path is free of mines, But sometimes it's not. And so to your point, what this is, is a way to, or something you can layer then into your process. So where if we approach a mine, we're like, oh, okay, interesting. I think that although I've walked this path before, in this occasion, I think there's a mine here. Like, that's my way to change my path slightly, to go around the mine and then back onto the path that I'm on. So a good example would be essentially what I just went over with Max, right? That's a, that's an example where you, you know, those things that we say at that point in the conversation, we might not say every single time because Max might have a conversation with somebody who, like, money hasn't held them back. He doesn't need to have that conversation. Yeah. Now I might have that conversation there, and the tone that I use when I'm asking those questions and maybe helping them to see the cost I might use quite a challenging tone because maybe I have a, I'm working, I'm speaking to some type of business professional who's a bit more assertive, more sure of himself, and I need to have a more challenging tone. Maybe the tone I'm using now, like, "Okay, well, let's talk about costs for a second. Looking back, what has this cost you?" Like, that's quite a challenging tone. Maybe I'm speaking with a, like, a single mom who's lacking, like, a lot of confidence. And money is actually like a source of stress, for example, then my tone might shift to like, okay, well, I mean, if we were to, if we were to pause for a moment and, and talk about costs, like, if you were to look back, what, like, in your mind, what, what has this cost you? Do you see the difference? So that's another example of where like I'm adjusting that to best navigate that potential mine. All right, I'm just going to mute you for us. I know it's gone. I don't know what's happening, a lot of rain or something. Um, yeah, so to your point, yes. And I'll share this, I'll share my screen really quickly for anybody here who's like, I've got no idea what these guys are talking about. Um, fire screen, um, air window screen. I wish we had you, Google. One sec, I'll just— Does anyone here not know what I'm talking about, by the way? Would it be helpful if I did a quick share of this? Yes. Okay, when I can figure out how. I don't know why it's not showing up. Share. No. Ah, there we go, there we go. Screen anyway. Okay, can you, can you guys see that? I'm now at a file view. There we go. You can see it now. Full screen. There you go. Can you see full screen? Hopefully. Yes. Tipping Point Courage. Okay, so this is the Map of Consciousness by David R. Hawkins. Um, I would say that it is a, like, a personal development tool, so to speak. So I would highly or strongly recommend anybody here, like, read this. It's, it's, you know, you, you can't— it's very difficult to develop your emotional intelligence and to be able to read and influence others if you don't have high level of self-awareness yourself and you're not in a high level state yourself. So a couple things here, there's kind of two ends to the spectrum. The first important rule is, is never look at this like good or bad. Like, for example, if my mother has just passed away, like, it's perfectly appropriate for me to be in a state of grief. Like, it would be a bit weird if I was, um, I don't know, feeling joyful. Like, unless I hated her, do you know what I mean? Unless she was like Cruella de Vil, right? Um, or if someone has wronged my— if someone hurts my fiancé, like, I'm angry. Like, that's okay, do you know what I mean? So it's like, it's not good or bad, it's more like, is this state appropriate for the situation? Is it conducive to the action that we need this person to take? Because every emotional state has a, a typical behavior associated with it, because our thoughts drive our emotions, and it's our emotion— emotions that drive our behavior. So for example, fear, like, there's always a tendency for humans to withdraw in a situation that is a source of like immense fear, to remove ourselves from the situation. Like if I genuinely feel fear for my life, like it makes sense that I'm going to— my— that emotion is going to drive a like a habitual behavior, an automatic behavior to just get out of there. Okay, that's why if you've ever been in a sales call and someone is really fearful, it feels like they just want to get out of there. The conversation doesn't feel productive. It feels like you're trying to help them and they're kind of like, I just— I really— I just I just need to go away. I just need to go away and think about it. I just need time, you know what I mean? They're trying to remove themselves. And so, people will— a person's emotional state will fluctuate, do you know what I mean? Like, you could be happy and then someone cuts you off in traffic and suddenly angry for a second, but then that passes. It's like in a sales conversation, we influence a person's emotional state by the questions we ask. Like, if any of you here have children, and I sat here and I asked you 20, 30 questions and took you back into that moment that your first child was born and you held them, and right, like, you're going to be thinking about that memory, it's going to induce those emotions, do you know what I mean? And so like, that's— we're already, regardless of whether you intend to or not, just by asking people questions, we're influencing their emotional state. Um, but what I need to do is like anybody who is below this line of courage, down this lower end. I don't know if you guys— can you see me put my pointer, my little blue pointer, or not? Yeah, yeah, cool. So down here, this is the— like, these are all just the paradigm for these individuals is survival. And we can have a predominant emotional state in different areas of our life. So for example, again, let's say I'm speaking to a really successful CEO Yeah, let's say I'm speaking to Matt Ryder, right, and we're talking about business and business growth. He's going to be in a high level, like a high level state for sure. Okay, but let's say Matt's let his health go and he's really, really overweight and he's booked a call. He's like, right, gonna get a PT, whatever. And that PT's having conversation with him about his health and his fitness. He might, he might be in a low level state in that area of his life because he's really, I don't know, maybe he's disappointed in himself for letting himself go. He You know what I mean? So like, it depends on— it can be attached to different areas of life, right? And so now the thing is, because this is a survival paradigm, like, all that person is focused on is like keeping themselves safe. And so realistically, all these lower level states are just different masks of fear. Like, a person who is angry is generally, uh, that's an outward projection of that emotion. But generally it's they're afraid of something, do you know what I mean? Or pride, like someone who's really maybe arrogant, is there's a mask on because they're, they're trying to paint themselves in a certain light because maybe there's something that they're a little bit ashamed of or embarrassed about. So they're, they're, um, you know, they're hyping up their, their results, their achievements. Okay, so it's all just a mask for fear. It just shows up differently. And so when we can start to identify, like, you know, I would say, for example, like when Max was sharing that, that instance where, I don't know, maybe you've got someone who's like, yeah, yeah, I looked into something but didn't move forward. And you're like, oh, okay, it's interesting. Like, is there a reason you didn't? And they're like, oh yeah, I mean, it was just, it was a lot of money. Like, that's quite an apathetic tone and quite apathetic language. Okay, that's kind of like, you know, oh, it was too much money, so oh well, I guess this is my reality now. That's quite an apathetic state, you know. Apathy is the abdication of power and responsibility, as in, ah, not my— nothing I can do about it. Okay, so that conversation that I shared with Midmax to have about, like, you know, looking at, at it differently, redirecting their focus from price to, to to what it's actually cost them and that kind of thing. What we're aiming to do is to shift this person's thoughts about that situation to therefore influence their emotions and move them more into this high-level state. So do you remember when, Max, I said, I suggested we ask, like, you know, the real question is, is regardless of what it costs, like, you actually willing to put yourself in a resourceful state? Remember that? Willing.

Yeah.

This is a really good— and if you notice, guys, like there's quite a number of questions that we'll often ask that have the word willing in it or some word that's like willing. So where I'm trying to aim for is like shifting this person up here. And if you can get them up here and we kind of anchor them in that state of willingness. So if Max does a really good job in that section, this person has that moment and goes like, you're right, I haven't thought of it that way. And yeah, no, I'm, I'm willing to be resourceful. I'm no longer willing to settle for this anymore. Like, I have to do something about it. Or they take responsibility. They go, yeah, okay, I see that this isn't COVID's fault or whatever, right? It's my— it's on me. Acceptance. Like, and we can anchor them in this state, guys. This is where you don't get objections. Okay, you might get a little spike of fear, right? And what that looks like will be like, oh man, this is exactly what I need and I really want to do it, but like, ah, I've just, I've got a ton of like outgoings coming up, uh, and you, and it's like, you know, it's like kind of like there's a devil and an angel on their shoulder. Yeah, that's a good thing, right? That's still great because like all you have to do is just ask some questions and, and steer them more towards that willingness, and the angel on their shoulder will win. Okay. If you don't anchor them up here in these states, then you won't just get a fear spike, you will get a shift to fear. And now you've got work to do. Now you've got work to do in objection handling. Okay. So a lot of this is like, essentially, we can't— and not— if you were to ask somebody, what's your emotional state? Most people couldn't tell you anyway. Right. And then the one of the definitions, I suppose, of these— the survival paradigm is like a lack of self-awareness. So, you know, no one in these low-level states is going to be very good necessarily at saying like, I'm fearful, or I'm apathetic, or I'm prideful, you know what I mean? They oftentimes, they will justify and rationalize, and if you're not careful, they'll convince you that they're actually in a high-level state when they're not. For example, desire can look a lot like willingness, but you'll get a mad big fear of commitment if you don't shift them out of desire, right? And so like what we want to be able to do is like internal, like external is always a reflection of internal. So the way that a person is communicating, the words that they use, the energy behind the words, so their tone, body language as well, all of that, that's behavior. That is external. And remember what I said earlier, what drives behavior? Thoughts, which drive emotions. Thoughts and emotions are internal. So essentially, if we can get good, we can get good at understanding, like, okay, what does, what does apathy look like? What does it sound like in terms of language and tone? Then as we're listening to people, we can identify, ah, apathy. And now I know, much like the, the, you know, the minefield analogy that I used, that's where we can put, kind of put the brakes on, and we understand what conversation that we need to have. We can also understand how to most effectively communicate with a person in that state. Because for example, if I go in very challenging with a person who's in anger, how well is that going to work out? You know, not real well. Okay, so, or someone who's in fear, what they're looking for is safety and security. So I want to use a more nurturing tone. Someone who's in pride, like, I kind of need to meet them where they're at. Like, if I'm, if I don't use a more assertive or challenging tone, I'm not a dick, but if I don't hold my own, they'll just eat you up alive. They won't, they won't hear you. They won't respect you. Okay, I'm not going to beat them down. That's certainly a tactic that a lot of sales trainers out there use, and you can do that. You can force somebody to do something, but it is not as powerful or impactful as, as just kind of, you know, going this way about it, so to speak. So, so guys, the aim is to shift people into this state. And if you just have in your mind, even if you just get really good at going like, well, what does willingness sound like and look like? What does it feel like when I'm talking to this person? Like that's a really good sign. Even courage, like courage is the tipping point. It's the first point that someone will, will buy, will move forward. Courage is being afraid but doing it anyway. So they're afraid, but there's a desire to change that. And, you know, I mean, it can go either way if you're not good at recognizing they're in courage, because they can— the devil can win, they can slip back into fear and that will win. But if you're good at recognizing that they're in courage and you can anchor them in courage, then they'll feel afraid and do it anyway. Does that make sense, guys?

Yes.

Yeah. So like I was saying, this is really a personal development tool, and I'd strongly recommend that all of you read it and study it because it's very helpful for you personally. And like, the point here is that a sales rep who is showing up to sales calls in a survival paradigm where, like, for example, we desire to make the sale for the money, or we desire it so that we can post a sale in Slack so we can be top of the leaderboard like, or a sales rep showing up in pride where you're looking at it like beating this person, you know, like I'm better than them and, you know, look at them, they're fat and unwell and whatever and I'm better than them. Like, you can't shift somebody from a low-level state to a high-level state if you're in a low-level state. So then the most important thing above everything else is the state that you show up to a call in. And the best place to start is always just neutrality. Like, I'm here to help, but, you know, I mean, whether you move forward or not, malasji, I'm sweet, I'm just like, I'm just here to help. And then as the conversation progresses and they lower their guard, they start to, you know, start to connect with them and open up, then we can shift more into a state of like willingness and, and, you know, moving them forward like that. But that's the most important part. So here their focus is always just on survival, and so their— any of the behaviour will be some version of like trying to keep themselves where they are right now, not changing. That's, that's what this is synonymous with— resistance. So you always get resistance. As soon as you encounter any kind of resistance, you just know, you know, all right, cool, low-level state. Makes sense.

Is this in a book? Where'd you say we can find this, Laura?

Um, yes, so it is in a book. There's Yeah, there's a, there's a book on it. It's by David R. Hawkins. And like I said, it's a personal development tool. What I have done and am doing is like, I've essentially, um, uh, like turning this into a sales tool because this is just what I would say my strength has always been, is being able to read people. And I did a presentation recently, um, and decided to talk on emotional intelligence and I remembered this and I was like, well, that's a great way for me to be able to, rather than make something up, like that's a really great tool for me to be able to use to then, you know, apply through a sales lens. So I just spent months like psychoanalyzing myself and going, cool, how do we apply this to sales? So yeah, there's a level, there's a few different ones. There's actually another guy too, I forget his name, someone else might know it. He did an, Dodson? Dawson. I can't remember his first name now. Is this, uh, Power vs. Force? Yes, yes. What's his name again? I have no idea.

Yeah, you got—

you're, you're in the ballpark. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's, there's David R. Hawkins, there's, there's— oh, uh, is it Frederick? Yeah, Frederick Dodson. So yeah, and, and again, like, mostly personal development tools, like, I would say, but, you know, read them, read the summaries of them, etc. But I'm starting to build out some tools and things like that. And then obviously that's what I'm running these calls. So again, I can help you guys with anything. But if you guys really want to develop your emotional intelligence, I would say that it's really good once you've got your kind of basic structure down. So Max, I'll just pick on you again. Max is kind of like, he's got his structure, he's got his framework, he's pretty decent at like, cool, how do I walk from one side of the minefield to the other? This is where you then add that layer on top of like 'Cool, how do I navigate, you know, like how do I have the most effective conversation with this individual in front of me?' And then that's where, you know, that's where you'll see mad close rates like 85%, 90%, like I've seen, you know, no more skill. It's more just being very good at your process, your structure, and then the layering of that on top. Okay. All right. So that's a side quest from me. But Juan Carlos, did that answer your question? I hope.

Yes, it did.

Thank you, Laura.

Okay.

Yeah, my pleasure.

So yeah. Last time you were showing us like which kind of questions apply to guide to aligned, right, the emotion with how to handle the statements and responses from them. And I was thinking like, yeah, I should probably, maybe I would like to do some flashcards and to have them more handy, right?

Well, what do you sell? What do you sell?

Insurance, life insurance and financial advisory.

Yeah, so what you want to do, guys, as well, is like you don't need to know all of them. Like, much like with your objections, every offer has its kind of core most common objections, right? It's the same with offers. They often have a very core, uh, like core range of like emotional states that you'll encounter people in. So depending on what you sell, so I would say for example, like, like any kind of insurance, you're likely to encounter a number of people who may be in a state of apathy when it comes to that area of their life. Because it's, because it's not solving, it's not necessarily solving a problem now, it is about preventing a hypothetical problem in the future. And anything that is hypothetical and in the future, there's an emotional detachment from it, okay. It's kind of like I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. So the greatest challenge that we have is something like insurance is I need to get them to experience that now. I need to make that feel real now so that it's not like there's no apathy anymore. It's like a, oh shit, I have to do something. Okay, if anyone sells any kind of offer that has anything to do with anxiety, like Matt Ryder for example, a lot of times people with gut issues, will have, um, like anxiety, you know, gut anxiety go hand in hand. If you're ever encountering somebody with anxiety, just know you're going to get a fear objection. It's literally the definition of anxiety, like what if, what if, what if, what if. So if you are not identifying that and using that as an opportunity to prevent a fear objection, that is just the biggest wasted opportunity ever. If you're in any kind of offer with ADHD people, We procrastinate. Pull that out of us. Pre-handle that, right? So it's like if you can think about your offer and think about how people may be feeling about that area of their life, how they might be looking at that area of their life, then you can understand what the most common emotional states are that you'll encounter, and then you can just, much like objections, just focus one at a time. You can just, you can just, there might be some things that you include in your process moving forward that are just like non-negotiable. For example, when I was on a health-based offer and it did help, there was a number of men that reached out with anxiety. Anytime I got in a call with a guy and I immediately recognized there was anxiety, always, well, hey man, I just want to say real quick, like, kudos to you, you know, since you're like a little bit nervous being here. Like, yeah, I mean, that's what you've said. And like, I just think it's really cool that you've opted to take the steps to book a call, to get, you know, to actually look to get some help. Because there's a lot of guys who feel exactly the same way. And, and, you know, in your opinion, like, what do they do? Yeah, they just like let the anxiety, they let the nerves hold them back. And I mean, where do they end up? Yeah, exactly. So I just want to say like, it's really cool having a conversation with someone like yourself who like in spite of being a little bit nervous or a little bit hesitant. Like you're here and you're having this conversation. I mean, that's the definition of courage, you know what I mean? And I just anchor them immediately. See what I mean? So, all right, I'll jump to the next. Treyton, you got your hand up. How can I help?

Hey, how's it going? So I have a question about, I guess, showing Empathy. Whenever someone gives you bad news, um, that's always been something that I've struggled with, and I don't know, sociopath. I'm just kidding. No, I don't think so. But what do you sell?

What do you sell?

Fitness.

Yeah.

Okay, give me an example of bad news. Um, my dad had a heart attack.

Oh, look, I'm, I'm sorry to hear that. 'Can I, um, can I ask, like, like, what, like, when was that? What, what, what effect did that have on you? Like, do you feel like in any way—' You know what I mean? Like, I mean, I don't have any more context to the conversation, but this is a health-based conversation. And so I don't know, are they sharing that because maybe you're asking, like, like, has something happened recently? What's caused you to feel like it might be, you know, it might be time to prioritize your health? Like, are you asking something like that and that's why they're sharing it? Or or, or in, you know, maybe if you can think back to when someone said that, what was the context? And I can give you an example of what I would do.

Yeah, I mean, like, the context— the question that I'd ask before would usually be like, like, what caused you to feel like you needed to change something about this now?

Okay, perfect. So it's like, they're like, oh, well, you know, my dad had a heart attack. It's as simple as, like, you don't have to be— get all weird about it. It's just like you know, well, I mean, Treyton, like, I'm, I'm sorry to— like, I'm sorry to hear that. Um, can I ask, like, when, like, when was that? Let's role play. When, when was that?

Uh, uh, it was about last year.

Last year? And I mean, like, I don't want to assume anything. I imagine that was tough. Like, what, like, what, what, what impact did that have on, on you?

You know, it's just, um It just made me feel like that could possibly happen to me, you know, because I haven't been taking care of my, my health recently. And yeah, okay.

And like, what can I ask? Like, what is it about, um, I mean, no one wants to have a heart attack, but I just, I mean, for you personally, what is it about the, the thought that like, oh man, like something like that might happen to me? What is it about that that, that concerns you?

Well, man, I want to say be, you know, around for like my kids. Why?

Okay, how old are your kids?

Um, I mean, they're, they're all grown now. I mean, they're, they're in their, you know, late 30s. My mom says anyway, right?

Okay, so like, why? Like, if they're all grown now, then like, what's the reason that it's important to you to be around for them?

Well, I just, you know, I know what it felt like, you know, to lose my parents and You know, I want to be here. It's hard, you know. Why? Because, pardon, you know, it's, you know, losing somebody.

Yeah, well, kudos to you, man, for, you know, putting, putting yourself in a position where like you're you're willing to do maybe the hard, the unnecessary things to get the help you feel you need to ensure that your kids don't have to experience that hurt themselves, that, that hurt of losing you. They don't have to go through that hard because rather than just like kicking the can down the road like, like a lot of guys do, you know, because I mean no one wants to think about it, but inevitably like something will happen, you know. Rather than kicking the can down the road like that, like good on you for looking at it like, well you know, it's, it's, it's on me, you know, like, to own this and to do something about it. Like, that's just— it's really cool to have a conversation with someone who, who wants to be proactive, um, like that. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And so, I mean, can I ask, because, uh, you know, I mean, there's a difference between, like, saying that, that it's time to prioritize our health and and do the things we need to do and actually doing them, you know what I mean? Like, like, what's, what's really driving the need for you at this point to get some help, to get healthy, rather than just like, um, uh, I don't know, maybe just like start thinking about it now and do something one day, maybe, you know what I mean? Like, why now? Um, We can pull up there.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, that's really good. I, I don't know, I just, I have a hard time with, with that. I mean, even coming up with, uh, how, how they'd be feeling, I don't know, I just can't understand. Yeah.

Okay, so I would, if I could make a recommendation, like, I mean, I feel like studying the, like, having a look through those resources that I suggested would be helpful for you. Like, not to put you on the spot here, but would you describe yourself as like an emotional guy? You're in tune with your emotions, or maybe you are in tune with your emotions but keeping it to yourself. Like, how would you describe yourself?

Yeah, I mean, I, I would say that, you know, I'm, I'm an emotional person, that I'm pretty aware of my emotions. I, yeah, I think the biggest thing for me is I, I typically Like, in my, even in my own personal life, you know, when I, something bad happens, I'm just like, well, that's just the way the world is, you know, and I just kind of move past it. And, um, yeah.

So then I would say like, it's just, just a practice thing. Do you know what I mean? Like, like I would say that, um, you know, um, at least initially when we start having sales conversations, do you know what I mean? There's sometimes they're quite personal, they're quite emotional, like I've probably had more emotional conversations with random strangers on the internet than I've had with like a lot of my friends and family. And like, at least initially, it is just a little bit like, you know, maybe we don't know how to navigate it. I would say the empathy piece, like don't overcook it. It's just like, oh, like I'm really sorry to hear that. Thank you for sharing that with me. I don't know if that's something that you share with people all too often. What, what impact did that have on you? What's like, what was it about having gone through that that's causing you to maybe view your health differently? And you can just script it out too. So because it doesn't really matter if someone says like, oh, my dad had a heart attack, or my brother had a stroke, or my sister has diabetes, like you can just approach it the exact same way, you know what I mean? And so if that's something that you're encountering often Like, just script it out and, you know, and that, like, you don't have to come up with something different on the spot. You don't have to, like, sometimes we feel obliged to be like, you know, I mean, in that, in the context that you shared, it's appropriate. Yeah, but I don't have to go too much down the line of like, oh man, like, you know, sorry to hear that. It's just kind of like, I can empathize, like, I'm sorry to hear that. I can thank them for sharing that with me because it is it's openness, which is willingness, high-level state. So I want more of that, like, thank you for being so open and honest with me. If they're someone who's a little bit more unconfident, I can maybe add on, like, you know, you know, take some— like, I imagine it takes a little bit of courage to share that. Like, I don't know if that's something— it doesn't seem to me like that's something you maybe share all too often. Like, thank you for sharing that with me. It's a good opportunity to build some really solid rapport. but then I can just move on. Just redirect it back like it fits the context of the conversation. You know, I would say that if it's like the start of the call and any of you are still, don't do this, but being like, "Oh, how are you today?" And they're like, "Oh man, I had the worst day ever." Then we can sometimes feel obligated to be like, "Oh, what happened?" And you just, we end up talking about nothing burgers. Don't do that. But even then, you can just be like, "Oh, I'm sorry to hear that." Like, you know, "I mean, hopefully chatting to me today makes it better." You know what I mean? And then they can move on. Like, you don't have to get caught in the weeds, but like, I don't— I think you're overthinking it a little bit too, Treyton. It's just like, oh man, I'm sorry to hear that. Thanks, thanks for sharing that with me. Um, you know, what is it about that that makes you want to do something about your health? Why? How come? That's it. And that's their reason. That's really good. If you're getting responses like that, that's really good, because now you're having an identity conversation. You know, like, what is it about having gone through that Like, you know, I mean, it might be like an obvious question. No one wants to have a heart attack, right? But like, I mean, for you personally, what is it about that that you want to avoid? Why? Because like, there's plenty of people out there who are unhealthy and at heart attack risks on a daily basis. They're doing sweet f all about their health. So how come you don't want to just be like that? Oh well, for my kids. What about them? I want to be around for them. Like, why? There's plenty of dads that aren't. Do you know what I mean? I always err on, because we make a lot of assumptions in sales, I always err on the fact that like there's always someone, nothing's obvious, assume nothing. Yeah, I could be like, well, why do you want to be around for your kids? And they're like, oh, well, isn't it obvious? It's like, well, I mean, there's plenty of dads out there that aren't, and they're kind of like, oh, I guess you're right. So now it's not a stupid question anymore, is it? So me saying like, why don't you want to have a heart attack? At face value, silly question. But it's like, there are plenty of people out there who, I don't know, maybe earlier today got told by a doctor, oh, you need to sort your health out, you're going to die of a heart attack. And they just like walk out of the office, walk out of the doctor's office and go straight to McDonald's. Do you know what I mean? So like, how come that experience has caused you to actually want to do something when people have experiences like that every day and do nothing? How come? That's interesting to me. Do you see what I mean?

Yeah, I see what you mean. That makes, that makes a lot of sense.

Yeah, for sure. And that's how you can ask every obvious question that there is and it's not obvious anymore. It's just like master your assumptions and help them to master them as well, because they might be assuming like, oh well, isn't that what everyone would do? Well, surprisingly, no, it's not.

Yeah, I was thinking it was a lot more complicated than, than it actually was.

Yes. Yeah, yeah, that's most of what getting better at sales is, is like over-complicating things, right? But just don't overcomplicate it, dude. And if it's something that's just not coming quite naturally to you yet, like I suggested, just, just script it out a little bit and then you're sweet. You can just have the exact kind of same conversation every single time, and you can take what you're overthinking and what feels a little bit complicated and just make it easy. That's perfect. Thank you. Go nail it. We got this. Um, all right, uh, is it Lucio? Lucio? I probably butchered that. You there, Lucio? Lucio?

Yeah, can you hear me now? Yes, I can. How can I help? Yeah, I was saying, yeah, it's Lucio. Perfect. Matt likes to say Lucio just to mess with me, but that's okay.

Uh, so Lucio, is it Lucio? Lucio. Perfect. Lucio. Okay, good to meet you. How can I help? Pleasure.

Yeah, first, uh, thank you for the time and experience for sharing. Uh, now, uh, I wanted to do two little questions. First, how would you take— how would you abroad— aboard a couple that, for example, it happened to me last week that I had a person that was going through multiple surgeries, that he was going through overweight, had multiple different medication, like 15, and she, like, you could tell in her voice that she was desperate. She was in a bad place. She didn't feel good. With, and she threw out the pitch and the questions and the presentation of the solution. She was just going, oh, thank you, thank you, thank you. Yeah, yeah. So the price was the difficult part, you know. Uh, I, I'm with Cometic Coaches with Kaden from Cattle, but it's also, you know, John Payne, blah, blah, blah. Uh, and the husband was the one that took over when the price was there. And the husband definitely wanted to help and like it was a good call. He ended up thanking me for my time, for my work, but he couldn't move forward because of price and it was definitely fear.

Okay. So a couple of things here. Like, so with couples, if you're ever speaking to a couple, you have to figure out really quickly who needs to be sold. So if we spend all our time on that, on the woman, for example, she's sold. Okay, although there is something to that that I will add, um, but like if I spend all my time kind of having a conversation with her, then I'm going to encounter what you encountered, which is like I didn't sell the person that actually needed selling. And so what I need to make sure that I do is like if I recognize that there's someone on the call like that, that yeah, that really wants it, the other is a bit more closed off, more reserved, etc. It's like I need to make sure that I involve them in the conversation, and there's a couple of ways I'm going to do that. I want to ask— I can ask them questions directly. So like, I don't know, maybe the lady sharing how this has affected her or what have you, you can ask like, you know, John, I mean, from your perspective, like, how have you noticed Mary's health impact her the worst? You know, well, what effect, if any, has this maybe had on, like, on your relationship? Or seeing Mary struggle with XYZ, like, how is that causing you to feel? So, and I want to involve and get that person opened up, okay. And then the other aspect of it is get, have, like, Mary, for example, Mary sell him. Yeah, where Mary might share how she's feeling, and again, it's kind of like, John, like, how does it— like, have you heard Mary, like, say that before? How does it feel hearing her to say that? You know, man, you must be— I mean, you— and I can do things as well, like, kudos to you for being here, do you know what I mean? The fact that you're here having this conversation with Mary, I mean, that says a lot about you as a husband. Like that, that tells me that, uh, you know, I, I mean, you're here because you, you want, you want Mary to be in the best position to be able to, to resolve this, to better her health. Like, it's really cool to have a conversation with, um, you know, I mean, typically I'm speaking with just like individuals and their, their partners over there going, ah, look into it, and yeah, maybe we'll do something. But like, it's really cool that you're actually here. It tells me that you really, really want Mary to get help with this. Yeah, like, that's cool. Like, have you— and you can ask, like, have you always been that kind of husband? Or like, where does that— where does that desire to make sure Mary gets the help she needs, like, where does that come from? He's going to sell himself now being that kind of husband. Okay, what that does then is it is— he's less likely to resist at the end because it creates incongruence. If he buys in on being that kind of husband, he's much less likely to be the opposite of that at the end of the call. It's going to feel incongruent and humans do not like being incongruent.

Would you do it? Does that make sense? Outbound, not inbound. Pardon? Would you do it even if you are outbounding, like calling them out of nowhere?

Yeah, yeah, you still can. Like, it, I mean, it depends. I would just, I would alter the language depending on the context of the conversation, you know, like even if it's, if it is, if it is outbound and maybe Mary wasn't expecting this call and John happens to be there and and, you know, he's part of the conversation. Like, I could still say that, you know, I would be— I could still just— I could just alter my language to be like, um, John, I just want to say real quick as well, it's cool that, you know, I don't know, I'm sure you're in the middle of something when I called, right? It's cool that you've kind of stopped what you're doing and, and, you know, you've joined Mary for the conversation. Like, that says a lot about you. So do you see what I mean? I can just alter what I say to match the context of, like, the conversation. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, perfect sense. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, those are the key lessons there for talking to couples.

Yeah, yeah, and it's super helpful, uh, by the way, because it was crazy. It was a very good call and, um, it was only about logistical and I tried to nail it down as much as I could and like they wanted to do it but there was something and it's the fear which is part, the second question that I wanted to do. How do you— because in my offer, I'm working with a lot of senior citizens and people in the building and things like that, and there's a lot of fear on actually committing to something financially. So how do you do it downstream instead of upstream?

Well, like, I mean, it depends. It's like, um, I always just try to understand, like, fear of what, you know? Like, like, is it, is it fear of, well, if we put the money into this, like, are we going to be able to keep a roof over our head or pay our bills? Or is it, if we put the money into this, is it like something unknown might come around the corner, we might not have the funds for it? Like, usually it's, it's, you know, so I want to understand, like, you know, is it that the money's there and they're afraid to use it? Is it that the money isn't, isn't there, but also if there's some there and they're afraid to use that? Like, You just gotta— just like, I think a lot of us just tiptoe around a lot, and it's just a starting with like, well, hey, like, I appreciate you being like open and honest with me about, you know, your financial situation. And like, just so you're aware, like, it's super common, do you know what I mean? Like, um, I speak to 30, 40 people every week in exactly the same position, you know? Like, people we, we help are, uh, are people just like you, do you know what I mean? So yeah, so first thing I do is always like normalize it. I don't want I won't, uh, you know, if I, if I share, I can, if I share the screen, my screen really quickly again. Um, I don't want shame. Shame is a very, very, guys, very unproductive emotion. Yeah. Um, I can't figure out how to share my screen again, but yeah, so like, yeah, so I normalize that because I don't want that getting in the way. I want them to be like, oh, okay, cool, no big deal. Um, and then The next stage to that is, is just ask the questions, you know what I mean? Is it like, can, you know, can I ask, because like I want to help if I can. Is it more a case of the— make sure you tie it to value, obviously, you know, like, can I ask, you know, like money aside, like if that, like if that wasn't a concern, would you do it? And I'm looking for emphatic yes, like, oh, for sure, yeah, absolutely, like we would, like, you know what I mean? Get that out of the way. And then from there it's like, okay, I mean, can I ask, like, is it, is it more because I want to help? Is it more a case of the, like, the money's there but you're just feeling a little bit like it'd leave you a bit tight, you know, you're just a bit, bit feeling a little bit uncertain about the finances? Or is it more a case of it's not all there? Or is it case of like just none of it's there? Like, what can you— you just help me to understand that the situation, I guess, like, just added is as it is, no judgment. For me, just to see if I can help. Okay, just, just make them feel comfortable to like lay their cards out. Okay, like you're like, look, you know, whether you do this or not isn't my concern. Like, I just, I want to help, you know what I mean? Um, right. And, and once they lay their cards out, then it's just, it's just a solving of problem, you know what I mean? And if there is fear there, it's like, well, hey, like, I totally get it, you know what I mean? Can I just so I understand, like, what's behind the fear? What's behind the certainty— uncertainty? Like, what are you worried about? Okay. And if it's like, uh, oh, well, what if something, you know, I don't know, like something comes up and we need money for it, or this or that? It's kind of like, I just, I just want to then help them to see that, like, yeah, I mean, that could happen, you know. Do you know what I mean? But like, I guess that, you know, oftentimes regardless, like, the fear is going to be there because, I mean, have you considered, like, I mean, what if Mary does nothing about this? Like, what might be around the corner then, you know? Like, and, and where might that leave you guys? Like, those kinds of medical expenses, or, you know, I mean, God forbid, no one wants to talk about it, but like, it's a, it's a reality. Like, what if something worse happens? And now you're looking back going, man, like, we could have done something, but like, we didn't. Because, you know, we wanted to make sure that the creditors were paid or the utility company was paid. Like, screw them, man. This is your life, you know. Like, and so, like, I don't want to take away that the fact that, like, it is a little bit scary. I, I get it. I can see that, and, and I can empathize with that. But, like, at the end of the day, like, you know, this is your, you know, your quality of life that we're talking about, you know. Is this, is this really 'How you want to live out the rest of your years, like, feeling like this? Is, you know, you want to live out the rest of your years, John, seeing Mary like this? Like, is this the, the quality of the relationship that you guys, like, want?' You know what I mean? I'm just, just— I think when there's fear there, helping them to realize that, like, there's always something to be afraid of. Um, and it can be fear of, like, unexpected expenses or this or that. It could be fear though as well of, like, losing his life partner, or of something worse happening. And like, now she's got zero quality— like, you know what I mean? It's like sometimes you just got to choose what to be afraid of. So sometimes I just— when I can get an understanding what the person's afraid of, it's just about helping them to realize that the fear is going to be there either way, and they just get to decide like, like what to be more afraid of, you know what I mean? And, and also sometimes they're extrapolating it out. So being like, all right, look, suppose something came around the corner, like, what would you do? Have there been times where something unexpected happened expense-wise? Like, what happened? Okay, I mean, you're still here now, so it seems like you figured it out. Like, you, you did all right. And helping them to see, like, ah, oh yeah, okay, I guess, like, we have navigated situations like this before. And it's kind of like, all right, I mean, if you've navigated situations like that before, is there any reason why you couldn't navigate that again should it happen? And they're like, huh, I guess, yeah, no, I guess that's true. Like, all right, sweet. Like, you know, at the end of the day, I can walk out my front door tomorrow and get hit by a bus. There's no guarantees in life. It's about putting yourself in the absolute best position, get the outcomes you want, to have the quality of life that you want. Like, you know, it just comes down to like, what do you, what do you want? What's more important? Does that help? Super, super helpful.

The main takeaways that it took is shift the perspective on the bills that are actually valuable, that are the most important. Normalize the fear to kill this. Yeah.

And problem, problem solve it with them. You know, if it is a real life expense, it's like, okay, cool, how can we figure this out? How can we find a way to where like We can do both, you know. I've had conversations with people where one of the reasons was like, oh, I've got this utilities— Brandon, don't, by the way, don't, don't bounce if you don't have to because I'll get to you in a sec. But like, I've had situations with like, I've got these utilities bills and, and a creditor and this and that. I connected her with someone in, in health insurance to get her a better deal on her insurance. I encouraged her to contact the creditor because I was like, you're freaking 65. Like, what's the worst that happens if you miss some credit card payments? Do you know what I mean? Like, what would you rather, like, your credit cards paid on time, or like you can tie up your shoelaces again, you can go out with friends again? And she's like, oh, I'd much rather that. It's like, sweet. So call them and just be like, I'm in financial hardship, like, give me a month, you know? Like, there's a lot of laws in place with things like that where they— if someone's like, I'm struggling you know, they can't be complete assholes. And so yeah, I encouraged her to call them and like buy some time on a couple of those things, and she did it and, you know, got in. Look, at the end of the day, it just comes down to then how badly the person wants it, do you know what I mean? Like, you can't force someone to want it. Sometimes people just go, ah, it's all too hard, and, you know, but if you've got someone that is like, I mean, it's like, sweet, do you want to figure this out together? and you just take the time and you figure it out with them. And yeah, it's really cool when that happens. Yeah, but not everyone, it's not going to work for everyone. Some people are just, they just want to stay where they are, you know.

We're not here to— you can't sell everyone. You can't.

You just facilitate change, not force change, you know. Um, all right, I gotta bounce. Lucia, hopefully you got what you needed. Brandon, appreciate your patience. Thank you. How can I help, Brandon?

Hey, how's it going? Um, so my sales process is a little bit different than a lot of what you guys do on training, so that's why I signed up to see if I could possibly get some different help. Um, so my— I have two leads. One, we go and door knock, and the door knockers go set the appointment for me. I show up. 9 times out of 10, they don't think they have a problem. I sell pest control installation, so I try to diffuse them at the beginning and just say, hey, yeah, there's I'm not expecting to find anything. If I do, I'll take some pictures and show you. When I come down and trying to do the problem awareness aspect of it, it's— they're just like, well, yeah, you just told me this problem. I don't know if it's a problem I gotta do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay, I can help you out with this. All right, so what you need to do first is like whatever inspection you do will, will give you the foundation for an effective problem awareness. So at the beginning of your problem awareness, it's just going to be more like a, what have you guys noticed? If anything, have you noticed anything? Is there any neighbors mentioned like they've noticed anything? And it might be kind of pretty dead end. It might be like, nope, not much. Like, okay, cool. Well, good to hear. I don't really expect that I'll find anything. So if you can give me like 10, 15, what I'll do is I'll kind of like crawl around, get my knees dirty, have a look around, and like, again, not expecting to find anything. But if I do, like I said, I'll take some pictures and I'll show you. And, you know, and pending all is good, we can high five, we can part ways. If not, like I can just kind of walk you through what I find. You go do your thing. And now, all right, now is where it gets good. Like, you know, sit down, whatever it is that you do, and it's like, so, um, now I, I don't want to concern you, right? Like, like, it makes sense that you guys haven't noticed anything, um, but I was just like poking around a bit. There are a couple things that I've noticed. I just feel like you might want to be like aware of. Do you want me to kind of walk you through like what I've seen? Okay, now it's going to be like kind of education mixed with problem awareness. So it might be like, yeah, so like, see this photo here where this kind of like you know, face value, you don't notice anything, like bit of a, bit of a trail, like have you guys seen that before? Ah, you haven't, do you know what that's from? Ah, you don't, okay, so what that's from is, is this, you know, do you know much about that kind of ant at all? Oh, you don't, do you want me to tell you a little bit about them and like, you know, why it might be worth knowing about them? Okay, cool. Those ants do is, is they're super sneaky, you know, they do this, this, and not such a big deal like initially, but like 'Over time, and there's more of them, what that can lead to is this.' Does anyone mention that to you? Oh, no. Okay, so knowing that, like, are you, like, I mean, how do you feel sort of knowing that? 'Oh, well, yeah, I mean, that is a bit concerning.' 'Oh, is it? Why is that? What is it about that?' See, see what we're doing? So, yeah, don't be afraid because remember, they're not problem aware. So problem awareness, like, think about it, it's problem awareness. So if there's no problem awareness, problem awareness is going to fall pretty flat. So what you're doing is you're like, think of yourself like a marketing ad, okay? I'm fat and I'm scrolling Facebook and then I see an ad that's like, are you overweight? You're unhappy and you hate yourself and all. And I'm like, oh my God, that's me. You're the ad, right? But you're going to go away and it's personalized ad to them. And now you're coming back with the marketing ad and you're making them problem aware. Okay. So now once you make them problem aware, the next step is like, all you have to figure out is like, all right, well, like if it's not a problem to them, it's not a problem. So that's why I'm starting to ask questions about how do you feel about that? Does that, like, does that concern you? Or are you just like, nah, not really. But oh, it does concern you. Why is that? Okay. So now I'm, I want to understand now I've made you aware of this problem. How do you feel about it? Do you want to do something about it? And then you G from there. So don't move on from problem awareness until you get a sense that like they give a shit. Yeah, where they're like, oh yeah, man, like actually I— yeah, damn, actually now that you mentioned that, I did notice that, but I just didn't think much of it. Like, ah yeah, okay, right. And now we've created— yeah, we're manufacturing something. And once you get that sense of they do give a shit, they care, Right now you can— now you— now it's kind of like, uh, I don't know what I personally might do is some kind of permission where it's like, all right, well, you know, I mean, now that you're aware of it and it seems to me like, like you care, you know, like, do you— would it be helpful if, uh, maybe I just kind of talk you through some possible ways that we might be able to like eradicate the ants so you guys don't end up with like any kind of like structural damage that's going to cost you guys an arm and a leg kind of down the track. Like, would that be helpful if I, you know, uh, yeah, I've got a bit of time between next appointment. Would that help you if I, if I kind of did that for you? Like, okay, sweet. That's what I would do. Love it. Because then, because then they're leaning in, they're going to be like, oh yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, you've got the time. Yeah, like, well, yeah, can you, yeah, tell us like what do you guys normally do in this kind of instance?

Yeah, I think that little adjustment is gonna be huge because I, when I first got trained, now I train everyone, um, they come down and they just throw up on the customer. Yeah, you got this trail right here and there's all like fear, fear, fear. And then I noticed that the customer's like, you're just trying to scare me. So I stopped. And what I do is I come down, I'm like, yeah, you have some concerning things going on. Yeah, you got somewhere we can sit down. But you're saying don't do that. You're saying frame it.

I am. I'm saying do it, but I'm saying like don't lean in so hard. Because if I'm like— think about it at a bar, like if you're leaning in real hard on someone, what are they doing? They're like, they're leaning out. They're like, right, so, but what happens, like, what happens if you lean out? It's like, you know, there's that joke that girls love assholes and whatever. It's just like they lean out. So we lean in. Yeah, so you just like, you just lean out more. Where it's like same thing where they rock up and they're like, oh no, we've got no issues. It's like, oh yeah, you know, like, I wouldn't expect that you, that you would. Yeah. And they're like, oh, or it's like, um Or I might be like, "No, I don't have to, you know, I don't know, maybe you guys just aren't too concerned about the ants or like whatever, maybe, you know what I mean? Like, but if it would help, I can, you know, I've got a little bit of time before next appointment, I can walk you through some ways you might be able to fix it. I don't know, it's up to you though." You're leaning out and so then they're going to lean in more where they're like, "Oh yeah, okay, well yeah, yeah, no, yeah, we would maybe want to hear about that." "Oh, okay, are you sure? I don't have to." and they're like, no, no, no, yeah, that would be good. It's, oh, okay, if you're sure. So yeah, just lean out more and people will lean into you. Yeah, yeah, I love it. And have fun, like, like, make people laugh. Like, people, people want to talk to people they like, where they're like, I like this guy, he's funny. Like, I like him. Yeah, yeah, tell me what's going on. Yeah, right, like, people love that. Thank you. Does that help? Let me know, let me know how that goes. I love it. Yeah, thanks. Be funny, like, shit on yourself a bit, you know, self-deprecating humor. Right.

Like, uh, there's some examples because like my, my concern with doing stuff like that too much is like I just told them they have cancer basically in their attic, you know.

And so it's like, no, you know, keep it light, you know, try some things on, just play it pretty safe. But so self-deprecating humor is a good one where it might be like, um, you know, I mean, if it'd help, I can sit down and kind of talk you through some ways that we've kind of helped other clients with, with this. Um, I mean, you guys might be looking at me thinking I don't know what I'm talking about, which would be fair because, you know, my partner says all the time I don't Right? Like, hahaha, you know, like, just feel like things like that that you can reach.

Don't, don't judge me, but I know feces. Like, I know what's old, what's new, you know?

Well, things like that. Yeah, yeah, things like that, right? Like, uh, you know, now, like, exactly. That's funny. If someone said to me, like, um, now don't judge me, but like, like, one of my best qualities is I know a lot about feces, right? It's pretty funny. I think, I would think that would be funny. And Yeah, I like people— people like people that are funny. They like laughing, you know, they can feel good having people buy. Of course. So yeah, that out a little bit and just like try it on. Like, I'd recommend to try some of this stuff on, on the, on the role plays to get like comfortable, get some feedback with it. And then, um, and then yeah, just like launch it on the— launch it on the doors. Thank you so much, appreciate you. All right, okay guys, I hope that helps. I'll see y'all next week. Hi!