Hitting Top Tier Stats Without Needing Authority or Charisma

All right, guys, welcome to another episode of Coffee is for Closers. It's me and James today again.

How we going, guys? Hope everyone's having a great day closing deals.

And banking checks. Today, what we're going to talk about is how to sell without any authority or at any charisma. So the James Sackle method, we call that no authority, no charisma. It's how he's picked up chicks his whole life.

Yeah, yeah. Somehow works.

It does. It does. Play the.

The whole. I feel sorry for you, God.

Exactly. You get sales through pity. It's my new strategy.

Exactly.

If you listen to this podcast, you will make your first million within three years. I'm going to repeat that. You will make a million dollars within three years of the first episode you list. We don't want pikers. We're not here to save the manatees. We're here to make podcasts. You really want this, you listen and review. Put that coffee down.

Okay, so today, what we're going to talk about is selling without authority or charisma. And where this all came about was that we work with a lot of business owners, guys who are looking to kind of scale their business. And at some stage, you get to a point where you can either outsource delivery or you can outsource sales. A lot of guys choose to outsource the sales because they want to be in charge of delivery. Make sure the guys are getting really, really good results. Yeah. And they hit a point where they're like, okay, well, what I'll do is I'll hire a salesperson, send them a bunch of call recordings, give them the script that I use, teach them how to sell exactly like me, and that should be enough. And it fails miserably most of the time anyway. Yeah.

I was going to ask you. What would you say is the main reason that happens?

Because they try and get the sales guy to sell like them. And usually when you're the guy in front of the camera, you have a certain amount of authority, which you don't get if you're not in front of a camera. So you can't use that. And there's a level of charisma that certain that entrepreneurs and business owners have that salespeople might not have. And so you're teaching someone to sell like you. And the way that you sell is not necessarily very good, even though it might be effective. Because just because something works doesn't mean it's the right way to do it. And it might not be translatable and scalable.

Yeah, sorry. And what you mean by that is, when they say you're not the guy on the camera, you mean you're not the guy on the adverse. You're not the guy that owns the business. The face of the business. Sort of like what matters to sales sniper. You know, if I get on the phone to sell someone, I'm not him. We bring in a lot of our people because he's the authority in this business relationship. Right?

Yeah, exactly. So for me to sell someone into sales training, it's super easy. I don't have to try very hard because if they're coming to me, generally speaking, they're already sold on the. On the fact that we can get results. But if I then have to give that call to Marco or to Will, it's harder for them to sell that person. And so the close rate is always going to be lower. But I have to be okay with that because it saves me time.

Yep. And every time we have a business owner come on where they were the ones directly doing the sales, and they say, I converted this rate. Provided they have a good background in sales, they've taken a lot of sales calls. They've done courses that. At an appropriate level, where they've grown their business to a point that they can outsource it. Let's say if they come in with a 65% conversion rate, typically, we're usually not going to get much higher than that purely for the fact that they are the business owner. They have that authority. Plus they can make deals. We can't make deals on someone else's behalf. It's not our place to do that.

Yeah, exactly. Okay, man. Just do a thousand bucks today, and then we'll kind of. We'll kind of work on everything. We don't do that, obviously. So there's always going to be. There's always going to be a drop as soon as you bring on a salesperson. So no matter who it is, how good they are, what it is, you've got to expect a drop in cash flow. So you've got to factor that in. And then as a salesperson, you have to be able to sell with that authority and charisma. Because, for example, we sell for Ryan Sirhan. He's an enormous player in the game, and we. It's not like we can just pick up the phone and go, hey, do you want to work with Ryan? Like, it doesn't work like that. Even though he's got all the authority and all the charisma in the world, people don't Buy from people that they like. People buy from people they think they can get results from. I was listening to a Jeremy Minor live today and he was talking about. He's in Arizona setting up his oldest daughter, she goes to college there. Right across the road was one of his main clients, which is Google AdWords. And these guys just think they can pick up the phone and go, hey, because we're Google AdWords, you should sign up with us. And it's just not the case, which is why they have to have Jeremy do all their sales training for them. And so there's a huge amount of authority there. So you'd think that that would be enough. And it's just not the case. So you have to be able to sell as a salesperson from a state where you have no authority and you don't require charisma because if you require 10 years of NLP or you require to speak on stage or you require whatever it is, that's. You can't, you can't learn that in any reasonable period of time. There's no ROI on getting good enough at that stuff. So you might as well just try and sell from. Hey, how are you? Yeah, my name is Matt. I work for such and such. You should just be able to sell like that using good tonality, command the coal through your use of skilled questions, and learn to sell without authority, like, oh, why should I buy from you? Well, you're not buying from me, you're buying from such and such. But let's just really talk about you to make sure that there's a possibility of us even being able to help. Would you be open to that? Okay, cool. And just learn how to reframe people and get them out of their own head and then sell from a stance where you're the trusted advisor, because that's one thing that you can become is the trusted advisor.

Yep. And so how do you get yourself into that position?

I think it's through asking skilled questions. Right. So people buy, people buy from, not from people who they like. That's not true. A lot of people say that, you know, to be like, yeah, they have to, like, if they don't like you, they're probably not going to buy from you. Although if you're going to go buy a car and you could buy the exact same car from one guy for 5k cheaper, but you hated him, you're probably going to buy from that guy. Right, so. Exactly. So what we need to do is set ourselves up as a trusted advisor. And how do we do that? We understand their problems, we listen to their problems, and we go from a product pusher to a problem finder and a problem solver. So. And problem finder is probably more. More effective. Jeremy Miner talks about that a lot. Become the problem finder. So by asking them a series of skewed questions and asking them about their problems in ways they'd never been asked, the person feels like they've been truly heard by you. And when they've been truly heard, then they're willing to take on your advice because they understand the advice you're giving them is based off a very comprehensive set of data that you've given them. And they feel like, okay, this guy gets it, he understands me, he understands my problems, and therefore I've been heard. Which is going to allow this guy's recommendations to be actually accurate.

Yeah, for sure. That's great.

Right.

So how about those guys where they don't have the business owner that is in that position ready to scale, they want to outsource their sales because they purely don't have the skill set, they don't have the authority, they don't have the charisma. They're not on that scale in the journey where they're probably still beginners. So in their marketplace, they don't have the authority. What are you, what are your tips at?

It's not a problem makes no difference. That's why the sales call is so important. That's how dudes can come out of nowhere and crush it, because they understand how to sell. They understand how to be a problem finder and a problem solver. That's really all it takes. If it's between. If you're buying sales training between me and Grant Cardone and you hop on the phone with both of us, it's simply going to be the guy that you feel understands your problem best or.

The one you spoke to first. Because they're good sales guys.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's just. That's all it comes down to, because it can be a guy with an enormous name and all the money in the world, and he's obviously very good at what he does. People can argue that to the cows come home, but I mean, I think the amount of money he made, obviously the guys know how to sell. Yeah, whatever. In whatever capacity. Is he going to outgun somebody on a sale by sale basis? Maybe not. Is he a guru of getting people to give him money? Yes, he is.

Yeah. And so mostly because if you don't buy the sales training, you probably need fish.

Exactly, exactly. And he's got fish and you can get fish. And the strategy is to have a good pipeline, which actually is really true. He just said it in a fucking ridiculous way. Like he just got flustered by a guy whose elocution and debating tactics are far superior. That's all it was.

Got under his skin.

Yeah, exactly. So we sell programs all the time that have no authority, no nothing. But generally speaking, just by being on camera you establish yourself as somewhat of an authority in what you're doing. And that's what a good marketing funnel is designed to do, is to bring that in so that know like and trust. It really is true to a certain point. But they do have to know you obviously because they're on the call. They do have to like the not you as a person. But they have to like what the company espouses as its ethos and what it's trying to do. And they do have to trust that it's like not a scam.

Okay.

Essentially.

So this is probably going to be the same answer in a roundabout way but we can go a little bit deeper because we have a lot of guys that probably do MLM that listen to our stuff. What about.

It's called network marketing, James. Get it right.

Same thing I guess, upside down pyramid, whatever you want to call it. Yeah.

Trying to flatten the curve on that one.

Yeah, yeah. So let's say someone comes in where you already have a pre exposed idea that this might be something that is a bit of a scam. Therefore people are coming in with the lack of trust but they're still on the phone with you. How do you overcome to build authority that maybe. No, this is one of the good guys we're here to get you. How do you work around that?

Like a stigma.

A stigma. That's probably a much better word than what I used.

It's a difficult one. But I think again if people feel like they've you understand you have to become that trusted advisor.

I think.

You know the good thing about being good at sales is that you can pretty much paint your own ticket. The bad thing about being good at sales is that sometimes you can use that for nefarious means. So don't sell something that you don't believe in. But if you do believe in something and let's say you're selling Isagenix or some crap, right. I don't believe in Isagenics. I'm not, it's not, not, not my thing to be fair. I know almost nothing about it. Right. But like supplements in general aren't really my thing anyway. So let's say you're selling that now. If you believed in it now do I think you have to be excited about it? No, I don't. Because then that's a bad way of selling the whole, like, hey, this is Matt from. And that's a stupid way of. But you have to believe in it. Because I think selling something you don't believe in will tear your soul apart. I just think it's really difficult also it's really difficult mentally to push product that you don't believe in. Like if you get an objection, just going to fold. So I don't think there's any money in it for it in the long term anyway. But if you believe in. I think that that will somewhat come across. And if you're, if you're passionate about your product works. And then again, if you can formulate an argument that solves somebody's problems or even finds a few problems that they didn't know they had, that's one of the most powerful things, if you can find problems. There's a great story in the book. I think it's the Oren Clough book, Flip the script. I think it's in that book where it talks about a company called Granger. So there's this company in the States through huge. They make tools, essentially, you know, say hammers and picks and all handheld tools. So yeah. So Granger. So essentially what they were doing is they were losing out to these smaller companies that were just able to sell the individual item. And because they had far less overhead, because they were smaller and they were just purchasing one item, they could, they could beat them out. So Granger was like, fuck, like, what do we do? Because they were losing shitloads of money to all these mining companies. And so they had a consultant come in and it was basically like, what is your actual point of difference? And this is a really difficult thing to really figure out. What do you do differently? Because a lot of people they say to differently is, oh, well, you know, we're have standing in the marketplace. Yeah. So a lot of people are trying to find their differentiator in the marketplace and they're always doing the same old, same old saying, oh, you know, well, we're 25 years in the industry and we have great customer service. And it's like, well, so does everybody. So name me something that nobody else has. I did this experiment when I did. When I talked to the game changers, one of their intensives and I was, what's your point? Of difference. And they were all just generic crap. And I was, that's generic crap. That's generic crap. That's generic crap. It's all just the same stuff. So it's like you need to sit down and think about it and it might take you two, three weeks. What are two or three things that literally no one else has? That's your point of difference.

So if you're Australian, it's like Bunnings, they got the sausage sizzle. People go there for sausages, not to buy tools. But then when I think it was masters from the big US company tried to come and take over discounted items, but they couldn't bring the same culture. And the point of difference as to what Bunnings is ingrained in Australian culture here and they failed miserably or lost a lot of money, I guess.

Exactly.

Sorry.

Right, That's a perfect analogy. Yeah. And so Grangers sat down and what they realized the only because everyone's got the same tools, they're getting them from the same suppliers, everyone's got the same shit. But what they had that nobody else has was like a 25 year buying history of all their clients. So what they did is they went and they said, we're going to find a problem they didn't know they had. They analyzed all their data and what they realized is that people, incidental buys were costing them way more. So if you're in mine site, every single quarter they had to buy new tools because they go through them so fast. And they, and then what they did is they, they said, okay, well when you buy 150 hammers from us, okay, it costs you X amount per hammer. But then every single, every three or four weeks, you're buying four or five hammers because they break in their incidental purchases. Now, for you to buy a hammer in bulk is $4. For you to buy a hammer by itself is actually costing you the equivalent of 150 bucks because it has to go through four different hands. Somebody's got to identify that it's broken, take it to that supervisor. That supervisor then has to hand it off to the logistics person. Logistics person is going to then go out and get two different quotes and then those quotes have to be fulfilled, they have to go to invoicing, they have to be paid by the accounts department. That's how a big company works. So it has to pass through all those hands. So essentially in hours, in actual dollars, it cost them this much money, like 150 bucks. So they went to their clients with all this Data and said, listen, this is how much extra you're actually, this is how, this is what you're actually costing yourself. And it was millions of dollars a year of incidental charges. So they said, they're like, oh my God, with this problem we didn't even know we had, how do we fix it? They go, it's not a problem.

Direct debit hammers.

All we have to do is just increase your regular order with us to this amount and it will save you X amount of money and you'll always have enough in the incidentals pile.

I guess it wrong, but it works.

Yeah. And so, yeah, what they did is they actually got their contracts back and they got them to order more than normal because they identified a problem their, their, their customer order or their prospect didn't even know they had.

Yep.

That's what being a problem finder can do for you. It's enormous. So that's why asking skilled questions is so important. Because if you can be the guy who finds a problem and then that they potentially didn't, you know, they had, and then you take that problem and you explore what's causing it and then you see what's causing and how long that's been going on for and then you say, okay, well what impact is that having on them both professionally and personally? That's a huge win. And if you really understand that and the impacts those problems are having, man, you take them through cost of an action and solution awareness and all that kind of stuff, it's a no brainer. The person will buy most of the time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 60 of the time works every time. I believe.

Exactly.

Official step.

Yeah. That's why our new sales training is called Sex Panther sales training. Going back to FYI, that would be a phenomenal name for a course. I've noted that Sex Panther sales training 60 of the time works every time.

Going back to the business owner. Right. So another thing that they typically do in their sales before they get to that outsource team and they try and push that habit onto the team and it's something I hate. And every time I meet with the business owner to go over their stuff, it just rubs me up the wrong way. I know you thoroughly dislike it because it's a real. You call bullshit every time is the fake scarcity, the buy it now there's only four seats left. If you don't buy today, next week, it's $1,000 more. Tell us.

No, it's not.

Yeah, it's just like, okay, so you're telling Me, if I come to you next week and say, hey, I want this, but I want it at that price you quoted me last week, you're not going to give it to me and let me walk away.

And you know what? I encourage everybody when you're in a sales call to ask that exact question.

Yeah, yeah, you'll, you'll win because the sales guy, if they're trained to do that, will be so flustered, you'll gain control immediately.

Yeah. And then you can just go ahead and negotiate proper buy now discount.

Yeah. So let's talk about the common mistakes that you see and why it's a bad idea and let's get into that and why you shouldn't get your sales reps doing it.

So one of the guys in the closing code course link in description, only.

50 bucks a week, dollar trial right now.

Yeah, dollar try right now, code word trial, all caps. He actually asked us the other day, he was like, hey guys, I've got this like, you know, scarcity offer. What do you guys think of buy now discounts? And I just went, is it real? Because what do you mean is it real? I said, if they call tomorrow and want to buy, will you give them the discount? He goes, well, yeah. And I said, well then it's not a buy now discount, it's just your price. He's like, oh, should I use it? I go, do you think you should lie to people? He's like, no. And I was like, then don't lie to people. I was like, if it's true, then do it. If you legitimately would not allow him to have that price the next day, then do it. Because it's real, it's not fake, and you're not gonna have your soul destroyed. But like, what a shitty way to start off with a client.

Yeah.

And I just, I just don't get them. I just don't understand on what planet is buying now gonna be a slight discount unless it was huge. Or the worst is like accounts that we've worked on where they have these really fake massive. It's a $5,000 joining fee today unless you buy right now. It's like, what are you on about? You're just ensuring you never get a follow up sale for one thing.

Exactly right.

Because like that person believes that even though it's bullshit anyway, so you just shooting yourself in the foot like seven different ways.

You know what? Something I personally hate as well. I mean, this isn't necessarily a way to lose a sale, but the office stacks, we got this, this one time bonus.

But it's $147,000 worth of value for 19.99 today.

But today you get it for only. Oh, I hate it. Passion.

Yeah. I think for like on marketing. I don't know. Does anyone think that's genuine? Anyone? Anyone out there? Please hit us up on Facebook or email us if you think that's genuine. What kind of offer? It doesn't make any sense if I don't get how they come with those numbers. Like yeah, it's $47,000 value but today we're selling it for $129. Why?

It's. It's the free ebooks they're giving out anyway. They just put a supposed value of 12.99 on that and then add it up.

Yeah, it's just. It's weird. I don't know. I don't get it. It just always feels really disingenuous. Yeah.

If you want.

So it doesn't resonate mail with me. As soon as I see that shit I just go, if you want to.

Office deck me, give me an extra one on one session with the coach that I'm signing up for and tell me that's worth a thousand dollars. If you sign up today, you'll get that. I'll be like, yeah, cool. I want the extra one on one because I have these problems that you've already identified. I don't care about some PDF that I'm never going to look at. I don't care about some system that you have in. I want that one on one time and I'm happy to pay for that because I value that.

The way that we do it is if you sign up to closing code then you get upsold on a $97 coaching call. Every other coaching call you ever want will be 499. But as a one time offer we do a 97. But if you don't take it then you literally can't get it. Unless you go back and find that website and buy it off that website which is not available anywhere. Then like good luck to you. Then you can buy it and then you get upsold again into a 297-call- Recording Review. But that doesn't come with a call, so. And every other call will be 500 bucks as well. So that's how we do that. But those are just genuine one time upsell offers.

Exactly. Not a drop sale.

Not a.

If you sent me a message on, on Facebook or whatever and you said, hey, one of my core review, I tell you it's 500 here's the checkout page. It's just, it's like going into a store. Something's on sale, 30% off today. You know, it's the same thing.

Yeah. And if it's real, I'm all about it. And it is real. Unless you buy through that particular link which isn't available anywhere, then you can't buy it. If you come to us, it's going to be a different price. It's the way it is. So if you hit me up and you say, can I get the 97 deal? I'll go, nope, should have bought it.

When you had the chance.

Yeah. Or you can like go back, go, go back and re sign up for the closing code and then go through the upsell funnel again. Like I'm not going to troll through and find you the link. Yeah, but I've charged you $97 to my time to find you link.

Yeah, exactly. It's not worth it. But anyway, back, back on track to where we were. So you're the business owner, you have those things in place. You bring on a sales rep to come under you. The first thing that you're doing is getting them to one lie directly to your customers.

It's a good way to start off.

Imagine the mindset that puts the sales rep in, in their trust in your product. If you're asking them to lie for you from the first day of working.

For you, imagine the mindset. You know, stupid. I don't get it.

No, like you just can't help if you don't trust people.

Ask all kinds of questions in that closing code form and my answer is almost, oh, just tell the truth.

Yeah.

What do you mean? I don't know how to be clearer than that. Just tell the truth. If there's a buy now discount and it's genuine and you like don't have authority. So if you're a business owner and you want a buy now discount, that salesperson cannot have the authority to do it. And they have to be very clear. You go, hey man, like I'm just telling you, I'm the sales guy, I'm not the business owner. If you do sign up Tomorrow, it is 500 more fully aware. As long as you're cool with that, then we can schedule a follow up call. I don't have authority in this. I can't change it. And then the next day if they come in, you have to, you have to follow through with that. And if they go, well, I'm not going to sign up, then you have to go okay. And then you have to explain to them, well, if I did sign you up, even if I, even if I did, that means that we're starting our relationship off on a lie. Do you really want to start off on a lie? Like, do you want to go up to a business that doesn't fucking follow through on what they say? No. So I just don't see any benefit in either way. And it comes all the way back to that kind of authority and the charisma you have to sort of. Yeah.

I've also seen one business owner go back if the person comes back the next day and instruct the salesperson to say, hey, look, I'm not allowed to do this, but what I can do is I can tell my boss that today's your first call, you rescheduled from yesterday to today. And that way I can sign you up with that discount. And it's just like, oh, that's lying's the best cringe. Yeah.

Yeah. It never works out because it's too hard to keep the lies straight. Just doesn't make any sense. Just be truthful. We don't have any buy now discounts in any of our offers. I'm pretty sure we also don't really have any drop sales if I'm pretty sure, like I really don't like drop sales for the same reason.

Yeah.

Then we just try and sell one thing and sell it well. Really? Yeah, but yeah.

Well, I mean speaking of drop sales, what we, we typically do is let's go through our drop sale process. We actually don't allow our sales reps to drop sale on a particular call. If there is a drop sale offer, they need to be pre frames. So like if they are ready for a big offer, they go to a call where they're only allowed to pitch that big offer. If they're qualified for a drop sell, they go to a call with a different sales rep or it's framed differently where they only pitch that one particular product because we know after like time and time and it's just a habit of salespeople as, as well as a natural instinct to get your money on the table. And sometimes it's easier to go to that drop sale if it is available as opposed to pushing harder for that big payday.

What I will preface though is that's only for coaching offers. So for product offers it's different. You're gonna have. They're one of that we don't sell right now. We're starting to sell soon is the PR that's much More of a product. So we might, we have three offers and it's just, it's a 30, a 15 and a 7 and it's just whatever they can afford. Yeah, so that's, that's a very different. So if we're talking about more coaching offers. Because drop, selling coaching offers is just the path of least resistance for a salesperson. So. Well, what we found is even guys who are savages, they're come on crushing 5 to 7 a week for like a 25, $30,000 deal. Then the business owner was like, hey, there's a lot of money being left on the table. I want to put in a thousand dollar drop sale. All of a sudden we get eight of those a week and it's hey, what's going on? The guy's like, oh, they just weren't right for the big one. So we put them in. I'm like, no you pussies. Next, get rid of it. Not allowed to sell it. And then straight away back to five to seven a week are the big ones. Yeah, it's just, it's just, yeah, the moment it's available, people would fucking drop. So. And it's. Business owners don't get that because business owners won't do that because they want to push for the big one. Because the drop sellers usually barely break even by the time you pay comms and you pay for the thing. It's just to liquidate the marketing.

Exactly.

If it's a one or a $2,000, no sale, nothing.

Yeah, well, I guess like in a roundabout way that's pretty much our explanation. How to sell without authority and charisma.

Yeah. Just be honest.

Yeah.

Don't be a dick. And if you're a business owner out there looking to, looking to get a salesperson on, just make sure that one, you can afford a cash flow job. Two, you understand that they're not going to be able to sell like you or match your numbers most likely, at least not for a long time. Three, don't try and make them into a mini you because if you really do try and do that, they're just going to steal your clients. And then if you're a sales guy, you need to be a bit of a chameleon. You need to be able to sell multiple offers because that's your job. You need to be able to sell without authority, without charisma. And you need to be able to come into a warm or cold market and still have a process that is replicatable and helps you make money and put food on the table for your family.

So in the next episode, how to do a podcast without authority and charisma posted by myself.

I like it. That's awesome.

All right, well, I think that's all we got.

Yeah.

Today. Thanks for coming again.

All right, guys, please feel free to, like, subscribe. Share. Check us out on YouTube. Just type in Matt Ryder sales, and it should come up. Check us out on Facebook, Sales Sniper or Matt Ryder. Give us an email. It's cifc@your sales sniper.com. leave us a review if you liked it. If you didn't, why have you listened all the way to the end, you dipshit? All right, bye.

See ya.

Put that coffee down.

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