How to Build the Best Client Ascension Model for Your Sales Business

Hey, guys, what's up? Matt here from Coffee is for closers. James is laughing at me because I.

Screwed up the intro and I'm here with James today. Yeah.

And we're going to be talking about today is we're going to be talking about the importance of Ascension models from both the sales and business perspective. Right. Because as a salesperson, you want to be able to have ascension models for many, many obvious reasons and also some non obvious reasons. And as a business need to have that so you can create some internal scalability and lack of reliance on leads. So. So yeah, that's what we're gonna be talking about today.

Yeah. So what do you guys think of the new setup? We're thinking about getting two ferns. Yeah, maybe, I don't know, something else. Cool. Give us some suggestion down in the comments. It'd be great.

Yeah. Comment down below what you guys think. We just figured we have a pretty casual podcast, so us sitting over a table probably isn't the best way. This isn't the final iteration. We'll probably, you know, get some cool to put on there. But this is a much better way. Also, we want to be having some guests on pretty soon. So this felt like a more relaxed way to do it. And I went on to the furniture website and I just bought stuff and then I let everyone know afterwards. So, yeah, let us know what you think down below.

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Let me break down what an ascension model is, essentially because I was actually having this conversation with one of our. One of our accounts. Tay, who has a. Has. He has a business called. So the, the final product is called Secure the Bag. Right?

Secure the bag. Mean.

I don't know.

That means money.

Okay. Okay. There you go.

There's a. There's a website. It's called Urban Dictionary.

Yeah. Anyway, Tay's a great dude, but yeah, he definitely has a different demographic to me. Yeah, right, Right. So, yeah, so it's called Secure the bag inside 25k. Phenomenal. Phenomenal day trading. Right. Really, really good for day traders. He's a very successful day trader.

Comment below if you want to buy.

Yeah, he's a very comment day trade. If you want to learn how to Day trade. I'm sure someone will. That'll. That'll tell the God somewhere that you want to be sold by someone. Um, so, and so, like, the conversation that we had today was like, how do we create an effective ascension model? Because he's really good at generating like lower tier offers, right? Like through his interaction. Because when he goes on a live, like, there's thousands of people who are looking for him. So, like, what, what I was kind of explaining to today, literally, which is why this was in my head for the podcast, which was like, I needed to explain to him, like, what we need to have in place to have an effective ascension model. Right. And I'll use seventh level as a bit of an example because it's the only business where I've been able to completely control the sales process. Right. We obviously have a lot of input in our done for you clients. And some of our, you know, consulting clients that we work with, we can put it together. But what, what they actually do, right. Is another thing. But with seventh level, we took that business on, we own it, we operate it. And so it was like, okay, so we have basically a product ladder which starts very low, around 47 bucks, right? And then it goes all the way up to like 47 grand, you know, I mean, and so we have a ladder in between that allows a salesperson and allows the client to, to pay to have a higher lifetime value. Which is really important because you don't just want to get 5k off someone. You want to get 1k, 3k, 5k, 8k, 12k, 15k. And if you can get all of those or some of those along the way, it's better off than just having a 1, 5. 1. Yeah. One 5K offer. Right?

Just the life. Well, sorry, the lifetime value of that client is $5,000. Whereas in this instance, if, say you've got a 1, a 5 and a 10, all of a sudden the lifetime value of that client is 16,000, provided you deliver well and they go the full way through your products.

Exactly. And so, but, but it has to be thought, I think a lot of people, what they do is they put together their models and they go like, oh, well, like, I'll just. Like I'll have a 5K and a 20K and you're like, okay, like. And then the 5K, I'll teach him this. And the 20K, I'll teach them this. It's like, okay, that is an ascension. I can, I can. But it's sort of a very haphazard one.

It's like you've got an old ladder, it's a bit rattly. The steps don't work. But in your model, you've gone down a bunny, you got a brand new.

A dram buoy ladder. A dram buoy. Right. One where you can step on the.

Top rung and not fall off.

Exactly.

Which is important for me because I.

I use horrific side.

Right.

There's a couple of strolls over there if you want to grasp it some more. Right.

It works.

It does. No. So. So, so what I did is I kind of did it in reverse and I was like, okay. And it comes down to two things. It's like, first of all, when I'm like, especially if I'm in the online education space, if I'm coaching, like, I can't give everybody all of the information at once, not because I'm not because I want to get my money out of them, but because it will not serve the client well. So if I have a look at like any pq. Right. If I give you. I. Here you go, James. Like, you. You were a sales guy, right? But you've never studied any pq.

No, never.

Like if I gave you any PU script besides the fact that you've heard me and you've listened to the calls. Right. I gave it to you and I was like, here, go use these.

That sounds stupid.

Yeah. And you'd also like, even. And even if you were bought in because you were like, oh, my God, you're the greatest. Oh, my God. Then it's a Kevin Hart thing, then you would butcher it.

Yeah.

And so like, then all of a sudden, now you've been given a great script, you haven't been taught how to use it, and now you're like, kind of disenfranchised with the whole process. And it's like, there's no opportunity to upsell. So it's like. But. And then. And even if it goes back and if I use sales as an example, because obviously the sales made a podcast, it's like, even if I teach you how to use it, you will have a negative effect on your sales for the first little bit because you're changing process and it takes a while to become good at something.

You need an implemental change. It's like when the biggest problem that we see with sales guys in particular is when they try to adapt too much at once.

Yeah. Complete kills them.

And with the Ascension models, like, well, get this bit first in product A. Yeah. Then you build on those skills in product B, and then you Put the icing on the cake proxy, right?

Yeah, that's, that's, that's exactly way better analogy.

Also, if you want to download on analogies and how to build them in our course comment below, we'll put the link in the description.

Yeah, we will have one. Is that for hooks and frames Congruence Academy.

That one.

Yeah. I've also got. There's another video which we'll try and link somewhere in the description specifically about how to develop analogies, however. So it's like these is this ascension model, right? And if you're a sales guy listening, be like, oh no, this is super important for you to understand, right? Because like this is how you will develop your pitches, right? And how you can increase the amount of revenue that you produce from a client which will increase your commissions. If you can have an understanding of how and why this should work, right? So if I give you a script, it doesn't work, right? So, so what I have to do is like, so if we look at any pq, right, I know the end result is you have to be on a really good script. That is essential in my opinion for a good sales rep. You have to have a good script that you know back to front. However, you also have to know how to use it and why you're using it, right? Not just the, not just the how, you have to know the why. That takes a little bit of time. So if I give you a script, you'll, you'll, you'll up, you'll, you'll lose sales, you'll become disenfranchised, yada yada yada. So I go, okay, in any P key that's going to be our inner circle and our inner circle Platinum, which is between 15 to $23,000, right? That's our culmination product essentially. We do have like some, some other stuff further beyond that, but it's sort of a case by case basis, upon request type stuff, right? Is that's going to be super important to teach you how to read the script, write the script. We're going to do it with you and then we're going to role play those scripts. But if I do that too quickly, everything shits itself. So the one before that is going to be like, I'll go to the very first one. So the very first one is like, okay, I need to teach you the methodology. I need to buy you into the methodology, right? Which is not the script and it's not the questions, it's why understanding. It's the understanding of the Fundamentals, which is like what are the phases and why are they used?

Yeah. So basically like in the low tier products is from my assumption of what I know, you're learning the scripts, you're learning the methodology. In the third one, you're learning the conceptualization of how to utilize that without those things in front of you.

Exactly right. Which, that's a really good way of putting it. So in the first one I'm going to go, okay, I need to expose the problem even more. So I'm going to make your current sales style feel so old and antiquated because it is that you become super bought into our methodology and I'm going to explain our methodology very, very clearly and give you some tangible things that you can change about your current process to make it more effective to start the transition to using our method. Because I don't want you to use our method yet because it's too early, you don't have enough of an understanding. Right. So I need you just to make tweaks and stuff like that to what you're currently doing. Because we don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Right. So once you get that now you're bought in, you've got some wins and you understand the methodology on a baseline level. Now I'm going to put you into the next one, which is any PQ 3.0, which is like now what's the next lowest hanging fruit for a salesperson? Now given they don't have a script yet, is tonality and objection handling. So we have a more in depth portal which goes over more things to be like how to be a successful sales rep. So how to do your follow ups, referrals, all that kind of stuff. Right. Which is like, that makes you a more successful rep regardless of what methodology you're using. And then we teach you how to objection handle properly and how to use really good tonality to get better answers. So now it's like, now you've got this foundation plus you've got this really essential skill which you can use to make more money, right. And then once you have those, and you've been doing that for four or five, six months now you're in a position where when I give you inner circle and I give you a script, you understand it, you're not a burden to the rest of the group. Because if I just throw a brand new sales guy in there, you're gonna dilute the quality of the group because it's just a bunch of newbies.

There's Gonna be worse questions asked. And it's gonna piss people off that are at a much higher level because they're like, ah, I don't want to play with these children.

Exactly right. And so by understanding what you're trying to get out of each one, then as the salesperson, you can manufacture high points right within that program or as the business owner can manufacture high points within that program to where you know they're ready for an upsell. And you can have all your acceleration triggers. So you can be working with the coaches to be like, hey, like as soon as this person posts a win, you let me know you can be monitoring that stuff. You can go, hey. Usually take someone four to six weeks to figure out. Objection, handling. So at the six week mark, I reach out, I go, hey, how's everything going? And then I upsell you into the next one. Right. So it's like by having an understanding of the client pathway and the client journey, you really get an opportunity to then not be so focused on new leads that are coming in, but you get the opportunity for referrals and upsells, which is really how you increase your income as a salesperson.

It's a shame no one teaches that.

I mean, we are right now.

Yeah. How do we get to this point where the sales guys are teaching that?

Yeah, no, it's a good point. It's just like I started to understand it right. Because of a difference in viewpoint. And it was I need to make. And by no means am I the most successful salesperson of all times by any or business owner. However, we do know a few things and we are doing fairly well.

Tend to say that you have quite.

A. Yeah, I mean, Jeremy's more successful than me as a sales rep. You know, Cardone's got a better business than me. He's been doing it for a bit longer though, to be fair. But if you have a look and what I try and instill, like, we recently just started working with Lightspeed VT's sales team and a few of their other teams. But we're sort of revamping their, their sales team at the moment. And it was just like I had a meeting with them today and I was like, hey guys, like, what we need to do here is we need to like start to look at yourselves as a business and start to create an ecosystem around yourself where you can be protected right. Against like not having your income be determinant against one dude's ability to get leads. And I was like, hey, how do you feel about this business's ability to get leads. This one person I was talking about and they were like, oh. And I was like, well, okay, first of all, it's not, they're actually really good. I've had chats to them, seen the meetings. However, your perception is, is, is, is reality to you. But I was like, so if you feel like that person's incompetent, what have you done to protect yourself against that?

No, no. What have you done to fix problem? Yeah.

And the answer is nothing. And so it's like, okay, we can sit back and complain about leads all day or we can go, hey, listen, you know who is a good lead? The guy I sold six months ago. And do I have products to sell them? Yes, I do have. I put in the work to be able to have regular conversations with that person so I can upsell them when needed. Because the great thing about like that business in particular is they have all the data so they can see if someone hasn't uploaded new content for six months. It's like, hey man, gotta keep it fresh. Let's get you in, upload some new content. That's twenty thousand dollar bill. Fantastic. So, yeah, so it's like they have so much data on their, on their clients and the clients of their clients as well that like they have the opportunity to create really great upsells and also referrals and stuff like that. So it's like, you know, I guess changing the perception of like when you come in as a sales guy to be like, any more warm links? It's just like, no, no, it's like, okay, if I want to make 30 grand a month, let's say I want Mike sales. I'll just say let's say I want like 30 sales a month. And I know that realistically the business can provide me enough lead flow to do 20, then it's my responsibility, if I have the goal of 30, to create the ecosystem around myself, that creates the extra 10. And ascension models are a phenomenal way that a business can create a velocity of income within their current clients and provide sales reps with like a level of freedom to be able to go out there and make happen.

Yeah. But it also increases the profitability because you spend less on marketing. Yeah. And if there's periods of we'll transition into marketing shortly. When there's periods of marketing being down, you always have an income source because there is that conveyor belt of people coming through that are going upsell. Yeah. But like from an operational perspective, it's having that is incredible for a Sales team particularly, particularly when it's expanding, you've got younger guys and senior guys because you can now give responsibility for some of those younger guys to qualify people at that minor level and have them sell the lower tier products that are more appropriate for their level of sale.

Yeah.

Right. And it's a very good transition.

Yeah. And it allows you to monetize more leads.

Exactly. But before we, we switch subject. Yeah. Like in what like circumstances when people come through, do you absolve from putting them into the lower tier products in that extension model and put them straight through the top end?

It's business to business dependent. But like saying any pq, it's like I've told the sales team like I don't want people being sold straight inner circle. Yeah, right. Like I just don't want it. 3.0 is the highest that anyone really should be sold straight into because it just dilutes the quality of inner circle.

Yeah.

Like there's only a certain amount of people we can have in that program. Like it just 3.0 and 2.0 are much more scalable. But like when we're doing scripting, like if you can't have 100 people on a scripting session, it's just kind of unproductive.

Yep.

So we're limited in that. It's like we used to sell year long packages and I was like, oh, I don't really want year long packages. I'd rather have a foster turnover of client, you know. And you can charge more for six months than you can for a year on like a per month basis, Right? Yeah. So like Instead of charging 20 grand for the year, I'd rather charge 50.

The buy ins easier.

Yeah. Charge 15 for six months and it's actually easier to sell and like less higher chance of client fulfillment and like not having things balance from a payment perspective. And also you can turn over the people faster. So it means that like you fill it up and then you constantly have people leaving every month instead of waiting a whole year. It's a whole thing. Right. So similar to how gym. So you never sell unlimited. Yeah. Right. Like it's just stupid. But there, there are caveats where it's like if someone is super experienced, has gone through certain products in the past and has an experience in the methodology, then we can allow them to go through it. But what I'll usually do is go hey listen, like the first month in oven or circle, they have to be in 3.0 as well. So they've got to, they've got to have gone through the whole portal. They basically got to do 2.0 and 3.0 in their first month to then be able to like. And they. The way we set it up is that they, they audit the sessions for the first month. They don't actually get access, like, to talk. Yeah, they just listen. So I think that's pretty fair to. To do it that way for someone who's like, super motivated and has the money, wants to pay in full and all that kind of stuff. It's like we have to protect the program as well. So there are always going to be those exceptions. But like 3.0 is our core offering. Like, that is the core thing that we sell, and that is the majority of what we sell. And then we have a down sell to 2.0, which is, you know, a cheaper product. It's between 3 and 4,000 bucks. And then we have like 6 to $8,000 is 3.0. And then we have 15 to 23, which is inner circle. Right. So there's a good swath there of different ranges. And then we have, obviously we have products that we sell, which is like call recordings, master classes that people can watch, downloadable PDFs, walkthroughs. We have a free mini course as well. Free stuff is fantastic. We have a free mini course which is a portal that we set up, which is just designed to get people through. And it's like a free coaching model where at the end of the day, by one of our products. Right. So it's like. It's like we've got a free thing that people get into, get a load of value, and at the end of that, they're sold.

Yeah, and that's. That's crossing more into marketing as well. It's like you deliver value to people. Value. People always buy based off value. Yeah, it's like the. It lowers the barrier to entry. It. I mean, without looking at the stats, if we ran stats on it, people that come through and have went through webinars who have actually watched lives of us doing stuff. Oh, yeah. Are far more likely to throw out less objections. And the lead quality is typically.

Well, then the easiest leads to closer Our Facebook group leads. Like, we have a phenomenal Facebook group team. Like, we, we actually, like, we do it internally and we have systemized that and we actually do it for people as well because, like, we've. We've sort of not cracked the code. We know how to monetize a Facebook group from both a sales copy, a systems, a structure, a setting perspective. Like we set I want to say we set 200 calls a week on our Facebook group. So if you want that comment down below. Facebook group, and we'll sell you something.

So many comments. Yeah. It's like the fourth call to action.

We never do it. We always forget.

So.

But yeah, we have a system and a structure for that. And then again, we put them into, like, an Ascension model. And so now I want to touch on the pitfalls of an Ascension model.

Okay.

Because it's fantastic. On the caveat that you have a well disciplined sales team.

And delivery.

Yeah, obviously. Yeah. I'm going to say delivery goes without saying. You have to be good at the thing.

You'd think so. You would really think so, wouldn't you?

Obviously have to be able to deliver on all the products. Your essential models aren't going to sell if your products are.

Yeah, exactly.

Right.

And that's how you can gauge, like, if you.

If no one's upselling, there's a problem. Yeah. Okay. That's actually a funny one because I was having this conversation in the day. One of our accounts, they actually have a really great program, and their Ascension model is just poorly placed.

Yeah.

Like, it's. It's not thought out enough. So it's like the next thing for them. Yeah, it's a great offer, but it's the exact same offer for a longer period of time.

Yeah. Right.

It's like, you've paid us 8 now, pay us another 24 for the next year. Right. So forget the same. So it's like, okay, it's really good. But, like, there has, like I said, with the seventh level one, there has to be the next thing.

Yeah.

There has to be something that sort of sets it apart, and it has to be like. Has to culminate in something. Right. Like, Sam Ovens did it really well. Like, really well. Where it was like he did a biz op and it was like, okay, quit your 9 to 5, become a course creator. Right. And then you became a coach or whatever. Course creator. Then from there it was like, okay, now you're a course creator, but you don't know how to hire.

Yeah.

And scale. So then it's higher. And scale. It's the next one. And the next one, I think, was like, more traffic. Like, so you've tapped out organic. Now it's paid traffic, sources. Right. And that was the three tiers that he had.

It's amazing. Like, it's smart. Like, you recognize and that's what you want to do if you want multiple, like, things to sell people and multiple offers is understand exactly what problems you, your client has and solve all of them through different entities. Yeah, that's. Yeah. Like what Sam's done recently because he's just come back. I think he had a hiatus for a couple of years.

Yeah.

Living out in the sticks, raising a kid, obviously. Company still running and everything. I mean, I don't know him personally, so I could be wrong, but he set up all of his clients on a new platform, sort of like Cartra school school. But he owns the platform and has done all the video showing how to use it so that he can just upsell everyone from company A into the utilization of company B. And the software models are amazing if you want long term recurring revenue.

Yeah, yeah. And big multiples if you want to sell. Yeah. Because of data. Like so I'll go back to the disciplined sales staff and like. So, like what do I mean by disciplined sales staff? It's like, okay, well like if you're a sales guy and you're watching this, it's like, would you sell them what they needed or would you just drop.

To the cheapest possible or the other. Discipline works the other way too.

Are you just selling people to the most?

Are you going to sell them the most expensive thing when that knowing they'll never fulfill? Yeah.

So we, we had a problem with that at seventh level where they were selling everyone inner circle. And I was like, hey guys, you know, like you're selling broke sales reps in the inner circle. Like, yeah. And I was like, how many of those are paying their second and third payment?

Yep.

It's like there's a reason why we did it in the way that we did it. I don't want to sell someone who makes three grand a month into a $3,000 a month program.

They can't afford it.

They can't afford it.

And to the skill set where they can apply that knowledge and information and take it on and understand it isn't yet at a level because they don't have the basics.

Exactly.

They had the basics. They'd be making more sales.

We started making more money when we stopped selling so much in a circle.

Yeah.

Because like on the to pay of 6 or 8 or whatever, they can fulfill that. Right. Just that monthly nut coming out, like it's too hard. You know the actually, you know, it's funny, in that business, the one, the refund that we have the most is 2.0 sales on a payment plan.

Yeah. It's the cheapest.

And it's usually the people who buy it on the challenges, when it's half price or something, I'll get like, whenever we do a challenge, we don't need.

Them to know that.

Whenever we do a challenge. No, I mean, we sell it for less than we do a challenge. We just don't do them right often. And like, I'll always get like, oh, hey, man. Like just a little bit disappointed with the contact. I want a refund. And then I'll log in. They've literally logged in three times a day.

Yeah. And not watched anything.

No, like, they've watched all of it five times. Right. Like those guys. Yeah, Yeah. I had one this morning.

It's. It's funny when we get that for closing code, it's like, it cost you $25 for the first week.

Yeah.

You don't get those emails.

I know. I changed it to yours. Yeah.

I changed it to mazes or whatever. But like anytime something funny like that happens or we get like a. This guy's unhappy, she forwards it to me to handle. And my response is like, grow up.

Yeah, not really, but the portal is phenomenal.

But grow up.

That portal is phenomenal.

It's great, dude.

It's the most comprehensive. Like, it's so comprehensive. Like, it doesn't do scripting. I never said it would. No, it does not do scripting. I will not give people scripting. Go yourself. Go sign up for Inner Circle.

Yeah, right. I. A lot of people. It's funny, a lot of people email me that have gone through napq saying, hey, should I join our closing code? I'm like, no, I'm like, it's designed as like a beginner. Right. Like, if you're. You've just signed up to Inner Circle or whatever, don't spend any time doing that. Like, focus your attention because Jeremy's better at it and you'll learn more.

Yeah. Closing code is a phenomenal, in my opinion, phenomenal product that we put zero effort into. There's six role plays a week and a access to basically a slightly limited version of our staff portal.

Yeah.

Right. At Sales Sniper, which is honestly, I made the portal some bit biased. It's a good portal.

I think it's great. Yeah. And I don't.

Yeah, that's a lot coming from.

Give compliments.

But yeah. Like, anyway, I don't know how we got in this tangent.

So essential models and how to market them. Really. Yeah.

Oh, the discipline salesforce. Sorry, you can. You'll never get people. So anyway, the discipline Salesforce. They'll sell people into the wrong. You have to make sure you salesforce and you as a sales guy is selling people into the correct product for them, which is the product which gives them the best chance of success and that they can afford or. Or have a high likelihood of fulfilling on their. On their financial obligations for.

And it's the more ethical thing to do. Yeah, like you just sell the person into the thing that's right for them. If it's not right for them, don't even pitch them. Yeah. Like common sense, you know, from a.

Marketing standpoint, like, you want to have your.

Just do a part 2. Do a call to action. Say you want to hit part two and go into, like, essential models from an operations, a business and a market.

Yeah.

So obviously you. You caught that.

All right, guys, so what we're going to do in the next episode is, which is a part two of this is we're going to go into, like, the marketing and operational side of having good quality ascension models. Because there is a bunch of stuff you have to have to make it work, I think, anyway, in order to make it work smoothly. And so we'll kind of break down that process. I hope you guys found this helpful. Whether you're a business owner or whether you're a sales rep. If you guys do like, this kind of content makes you, like, subscribe the notification bell, go over to. If you're a sales guy and you want to get better at sales, go to sales revolution dot group and you can go to the closing code group. If you're a business owner and you want to hear how we do things or whatever.

Yeah, yeah. Well, sales guys, business owners, something for everyone in this one, I think.

Yep. And if you do want help with your Facebook group, just comment Facebook group down below and we'll have some reach out to you and we can show you how we monetize our groups.

If you want access to everything we told you to comment, just comment. Comment. Get it?

Comment. Comment.

Yeah. Jinx.

Bye, Miko.

All right.

All right, guys.

Bye. Bye.

Hey, guys. What's up? Welcome to the new studio. Well, it's the same one, but this is coffees for closers, me and Matt. Hey, guys. How dare you? But there's one or two out there.

Two to be precise.