How to handle rejection - CIFC Episode 133

Hey, sets and sus. I've tried to reach out to you a few times. Space, space. Where should we go from here? That's gotten me a response every time. Really every single time. And then I had him.

What do you think it is? What is it about that that triggers that response?

I think it's like, it's leaning out a little bit. It's like, hey, man, like, where do you want to go from here? And it puts it back on them being like, hey, I've made the effort here.

Yeah.

Welcome back to another episode of Coffee is for Closers. It's a little bit unusual today because you're just so busy.

I got a new house and there's tradespeople coming in.

Yep.

So there's no time to go to the office. So we're here. Fortunately, cameras can move.

They can. Reasons. Anyway, you pay extra for that. Roll the intro. Ex Special Forces sniper turned entrepreneur, I've scaled numerous businesses to eight figures. My name is Matt Ryder. This is my podcast, and I'm telling you to put that coffee down.

So today we're talking about rejection. That's one of the things that I think gets glossed over, especially like on the podcast, is that a lot of salespeople don't deal well with the rejection that they will face many, many times.

Yeah.

Now I know for you, you're like, just get over it. That's not helpful advice because I think for some people, that is something that they'll really struggle with in their career. So I thought it would be fun initially for you to tell us some of the more heinous rejections that you've gotten. Like, some of the more outrageous things people have said to you.

I don't remember a lot of them because I don't care when it happens. I think it's kinda. That's funny. It's a good anecdote. Right. So I think a lot of them happen during fitness. Some of the ones that, like, stuck with me in fitness is when I had, like, I remember there was a woman and she was in New Zealand and she was, you know, I think she was like 170 kilos, something like that. Really, really big. She smoked two packs a day. And in Australia, cigarettes, you know, New Zealand cigarettes, like 40 bucks a pack. She had McDonald's four to five times a day. So we worked out. Like she was spending roughly. I don't know, she was spending like 200 bucks a day on terrible food that was killing her and booze on top and all this kind of stuff. She was a grandmother. She was like a 55 year old grandmother. And, and so, and I was like, so you're spending this and like, would you be open to reducing some of that to put into your fitness? And she was like, no. And like just flat out like, no, no, I'm not spending money on this. I was like, but you're dying. She's like, yeah, and you really need to lose the weight because you know that you'll die young and you're not going to see your grandparents grandkids grow up. Yeah, yeah, no, all that's, yeah, 100% like, you know, I need to fix it. I was like, but will you stop? Like that's. Would you remove one pack of cigarettes a day? No doing that. And it was just like the craziness that blew my mind. I think those are the ones that stuck with me more when it was like, yes, I want to do it. It wasn't like the fuck you and then hang up. It's just like, that's stupid. That's silly. It was more like the ones where the people so desperately needed it. But there was something. And I don't think like, you know, I'm not Tony Robbins. I can't heal someone in an hour. So those, those are the weird ones. They're just always like, what is, what is happening?

Where you can't rationalize it.

It's just, but it's so like the speech and the action are so contrary that it's, it's hard to kind of wrap your head around. And I like, I remember a lot of that conversation, you know.

Do you think it's more like damaging? Do you think it's like, people feel it more when it's. As soon as they realize it's sales call and hang up versus people that let you go all the way through the process and they're like, no, I'm not interested.

Like, which is super rare because that's confrontational.

Okay.

So people, like, I've had people give me wrong credit card numbers. I've had people hang up in the middle of giving me a credit card. I've had people like, yeah, you know, my man 100% and dude, my wallets in my car, like, yeah, that's cool. I don't mind. Like, I can wait and then like have them literally like pretend to go down to their car and then.

Hang up.

You know what I mean? Like knowingly, like it's like out of a skit. And so that stuff really, because it made me very. It makes me happy. When that happens because I can picture the person doing it. And it's like, if you just can't tell someone, oh man, listen, listen. I'm sure it would work, but I'm just not into it at the moment.

Yeah.

It's such an easy thing to say.

Yeah.

And I'd be like, oh, yeah, fair enough. There's not much to get to come back to that, but those are the ones that make me laugh. One of the funniest ones I ever saw was when I was reviewing a call and it was a fitness sale, like a high ticket fitness. And the guy did all the right things. And he had this guy in a box, right. And he said, overcome a few objections. Guy's like, you know what? I think you're right. I need to do it. Let me just go get my card. And so the guy leaves the zoom and then all you see is an arm. Come back over. Just exit, exit. And I was killing myself. I was killing myself laughing. It was absolutely amazing.

Yeah.

Would your advice be then that if you really struggle with rejection, maybe sales isn't the career for you? Do you think that is?

I think life is for you. I think you probably hear more no's than yeses in general in life, you know, think. I think, I think you're looking at it the wrong way. You know, it's not, it's not rejection because it's, it's not you.

Yeah.

They're not buying you.

Yeah.

Like sometimes they are.

Yeah. So that's what I wanted to separate later on was that as a salesperson, if you're an industry salesperson, you're a career salesperson, you're not selling yourself.

No.

You're selling some service, some product for someone else.

Yeah.

So with that in mind, like when you get multiple rejections, do you think that one of the issues sort of associated with that is less personal but more like undermines your faith in the product that you're selling?

I don't know. I think a lot of people, not many people would shift that towards the product. People shift it towards themselves in almost every scenario. You know, like, what could I have done better? It comes down to people not having an understanding of where they're at in their development cycle. And like if you're a 10% guy, like you're new to sales or the offer is. That's how it's structured. Like it's a flood. The gates type offer, like just come one, come all, and we'll sort you out in the sales process. You have to be able to, like, remove yourself a little bit. Like, if I'm shooting and it's a crazy windy day, I'll give myself a little bit of a break, you know, like, yeah, I need to be able to navigate that. But if it's just like, ungodly, it's like, wow, this is.

Yeah.

You know, things to do on these. So I think, like, people don't know their data. So if they're thinking that, they're like, you know, I feel like I close around 50%. But you're a 10. You're just going to be perpetually upset and angry all the time because you feel like you're underperforming where in reality, you're performing to the appropriate level of your current skill set.

Yep.

And so it's about those. Like, if you. Soon as you understand that, then you can set like, oh, what's. What have I done for the last three months?

Yeah.

What's my average? It's like, oh, I closed at 15%. Sweet. So if I have 10 calls and to say, yes, fucking good day.

Yeah.

Because I performed above, like, that's what I learned someone. When I was doing golf lessons. Right. This is a while ago when I had time to play golf.

Imagine having that time.

Oh, man. Yeah, exactly. You know, when I was a PC, I'd play golf three times a week.

Madness.

Because I didn't start working until about 10.

Yeah.

So I would go and I would. I would play golf at. From 9. From. Sorry, from 8 to 9. 30.

Yeah.

And then I would take the ferry into work.

Yeah, right.

And I would. Yeah, great living dream.

Yeah.

And then I had children and there's.

The end of that.

Yeah.

You know, but he said, your, Your, your handicap is a reflection of you on a good day.

Yeah.

And I was like, oh, man, that's. That's a different way of looking at it. I thought that's what you should shoot all the time. But it's a reflection of you on a good day. So you might have a great day and you might have a bad day, and you'll have a good day. So it's like you probably most the time shoot a little bit worse than your handicap, you know, so that's. That, that helped me out a lot. When I was looking at sales, I was like, well, if my close rate is 30, that's a reflection of me on a good day. So, like, if I hit 40, I'm like, ecstatic. But if I hit 25, I'm like, well, it's not far off, you know? And I think most young sales reps, like, even our teams, like, I had a guy I did have a go at the other day. I just said, you guys want to make serious money? And I don't know that, but I was like, raise your hand if you track this. And one guy, Raise your hand if you track this same guy. Track this same guy. Track this same guy. And I did, like, 10 metrics, which I told them all to track about a hundred times. I've even given them the spreadsheet, right? And I was like, it was Brian that put his hand up. I go, brian, how many sales did you make last week? He said 18. I was like, fantastic. So as we can see, right? Brian is doing the right things. Brian is getting the results because he has the data to kind of figure it out.

Yeah. Okay.

And the guys that I can see that do really well. There's a few guys that do really well, and all those dudes are constantly reworking small parts of it. Like, on the weekend, I got one from one of our guys, Josh. He's like, hey, man. The partner reframes that we went over. They're doing this, this, and this. I tried them, but I want to create this small tweak. And he wrote it out in, like, three different ways. And he was like, which one do you think is best? And I was like, this one. And he, like, took that one, then wrote that out in three different ways with, like, different inflections, and then recorded it and sent it to me. It's like, which one? I was like, this one is, like, perfect.

Yeah.

It's like, that's. That's what it takes.

Yeah.

To be really good.

Yeah.

I think that is what gets overlooked in sort of all industries, man, is that, like, the secret sauce is hard work, and. And it's unfortunate, but true.

Yeah.

And foundations as well. Like, it's one of the things that I noticed, like, you know, in. I thought it was really a military thing. And then when I was training dogs, I was like, oh, it's a dog trainer, but it's everything.

Yeah.

It's like, especially when you're training a dog. But in anything. It's not just in dog training. In anything is that, like, when you make a step too far and it's incorrect, you have to have somewhere to go back to to be correct. And if you make a step, that's, like, way too, too far out, and you're like, oh, I'm lost in the woods, and I have nothing to fall back to. And I think that relates exactly to like sales process and understanding the data in the way that you explained in that when you make a mistake or not even make a mistake, you don't get a sale. You need to look and go, oh, that's normal. That's like for where I'm at, for this offer, for the number of sales that I make for all of those things line up and go. That was actually more likely to happen than not. And that's, that's normal. And that means that I'm closer to the next one that will concept.

Because once you, like, once you do that, then the outcome is not, did I get the sale? The outcome is, well, did I follow my process tightly enough to where I had the best chance? Like, you can, you can like no one can fix every dog, but as long as you do the steps, you can go, well, like, I threw the kitchen sink in it maybe the thing is fucking. I don't know. Got a mental illness.

Yeah.

I'm out of ideas.

Yeah.

There's a bird. So in our new house, right? There's a bird that I think has a mental illness.

What's it do?

So it lands on our balcony, on my master like master bedroom, shits all over the balustrade and then attacks the window.

Yeah. Right.

But like, and then smears shit all over the window. Because it's got so like, it just goes like that and like all day.

Yeah, Yeah.

I think it's just got a mental illness.

Well, you know, there's degrees of that. Right. So like in all animals, like, it's super obvious in people and we can diagnose it and there's all these different subcategories and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But for sure, in animals there's the same.

Yeah.

And, and there's like, there's a spectrum of understanding, but we can't necessarily tap into that.

Yeah.

So it's quite possibly.

Yeah.

I got anti bird strips coming from Amazon.

Oh, really?

And like a big ass fake crow.

What could be weird though, if he's into that.

I know.

Yes.

I hate myself.

There's various degrees of mental illness.

Then I gotta buy BB gun. Yeah, here's what it is.

Yeah. Yeah.

So rejection. There's gotta be a funny one where someone like fucked you over. Like where if you were a more feeling person, you would have been like, oh, okay.

Well, there's a couple of those. The one that told me the biggest lesson though was when the guy. I think I might have told this story before, but I kind of went after him for like not being there.

At the time.

And then from there he looped around me to go to the business owner so that, you know, I didn't get the commission. That was a big like, lesson learning point. I think getting ghosted is by far the most frustrating, especially when the people are like, yeah, yeah. I mean, good to go. Like, we're trying to sign up a few new accounts that are like larger accounts at the moment. And like, we've had to chase them, but like, you can't chase because then like it sort of. They run faster away. So I've been having Jeremy write my emails and texts to them and it fucking works. Yeah, it's insane. There's a couple of really simple ones like that one that you know from his TikTok.

Explain it.

Yeah, yeah. So it's like still his content.

Yes, yes.

Yeah, it's. Hey, steps and says, I've tried to reach out to you a few times. Space, space. Where should we go from here? That's gotten me a response every time.

Really?

Every single time. And then I had him.

What do you think it is? What is it about that that triggers that?

I think it's like it's leaning out a little bit. It's okay. Like, where do you want to go from here? And it puts it back on them being like, hey, I've. I've made the effort here.

Yeah.

Like, this is getting like, you need to tell me now, like, where we're going from here.

So from a status standpoint, you're.

Yeah.

You're not talking down to them, but you're also not sort of like begging them either. Right. So it probably keeps you on the same.

Yeah. Plays Jeremy's very big on status.

Yeah.

Like being in the same. I was gonna. It's a new phone. It wasn't up there. But he sent me another one. Because then when I sent that message, that person answered immediately.

Yeah.

And said, yep, such and such and such. Will you have an entry into the week? I didn't get entry in the week.

Okay.

So then on Saturday I misses Jeremy and I was like a screenshot and I was like, what? What I do now? Cuz like my immediate go to response is like. And I was like, hang on a second, let me just slow this down and NEPQ this a little bit. And then Jeremiah sent me. Jeremy sent me, oh, do a calendar commitment question. Which is like, hey, that's totally cool. It might be a bit hard to catch me randomly with my schedule. What I can do for you is I can go ahead and book a time to chat next week. And that way, you know, you don't, like, you don't have to chase me. And that worked.

Yeah. Yeah. So.

So it's really funny. He's been through so many scenarios that he just knows the thing to say to give yourself the best chance of getting the outcome that you want, whether it's get them to get back to you or get them to book an appointment or whatever.

Yeah.

Do you think that that has a lot to do with just sort of minimizing the resistance in like you've basically done all the work for the person in that instance? Cause I think, like, I regularly don't.

Get back to people.

I'm a piece of shit in that regard. Like, I'm a mess. I'm all over the place right now. I'm trying to book my schedule for next year and I stupidly, instead of contacting the people who I'd worked with in the past, I just thought, for some reason I got in my head, I was like, it would be a bit presumptuous of me to assume they want to host me again, which they almost all do. And I put it out publicly and said like, hey, ready to travel again next year? Like, who wants to? And had like 40 inquiries in 24 hours. I had to turn off. I had to stop. Like, I was like, fuck, I can't take anymore. And now I've done nothing because it's too, like, it's, it's too scary for me.

Yeah.

And the only ones I've actually booked are people who shot me and were like, how about these dates? I was like, yes, like, you've done the work. So I think the same probably happens in regards to a lot of those things. If people have got like six different projects going on and you are regularly emailing, they're probably like, well, this guy's like, I don't need to put the work in on that area because he is.

Yeah.

When I get the time, I'll come back to it.

Exactly. Yeah. People just busy. Like, that's the thing. That's one of the things about rejection is people are just busy.

Yeah.

A lot of the time, the default of the salesperson or anyone really is to go like, this person's ghosting me. Rah. It's like, well, no, man, I've ghosted plenty of people. And the thing that always goes through my head is if someone calls me and I know it's a 20 minute conversation and I don't have 20 minutes, I reject the call because I go, I will Call that person back. I have every intention of doing it. I'm just really busy and I can't have that conversation right now.

Yeah.

And then I just forget to call them back.

Yeah.

It's just the way it is. So when you're calling leads, like that's my assumption. So like when leads don't pick up 10 times, it's fine, like not a big deal. Just keep calling them. How can you say they're not interested? They don't know it's you that's calling, you know, and like if you've called them and messaged them and emailed them, it's like, well, they only, you know, they're reading all those at different times. And even if they are super interested, it doesn't mean they're going to immediately get back to you because people are just busy.

Yeah.

And also like people don't answer unknown phone numbers.

Yeah.

Like they let it go to voicemail and then check their voicemail. So it's like, then you got a call and text them email. You got to give people opportunity to kind of to be filtered through that. That's the way. That's why I didn't mind calling leads 50 times.

Yeah.

Like if they want me to stop calling them, they can just text me to stop calling them.

Yeah.

Or answer and say stop, stop it.

Yeah, stop calling me. It's like, all right, cool man, no drama. But just before I do that.

Just let me.

Objection.

Handle.

Yeah, but I think that that is something like worth exploring because everybody has rejected somebody else in one way, shape or form and it's not always, it very often is not personal. And I think in regards to getting back to people, as you say, like most people or a lot of people don't work with their phone on them. Right.

Yeah.

And if you're shocking that anyone buys.

Yeah.

I mean we should know how to get through to anybody. So like if I, if I spend more than you, like if I do a live stream or something like that, and it's two hours where I can't check anything that, that is an overwhelming amount of messages and sort of information that I get back. If that's in the workday. Right. Like two hours without engaging with anything, just what I'm doing and then I'm straight onto something else. I've got to answer questions, whatever, in that five minutes that I have, I'm going to pick the low hanging fruit. Right. The easy things to get back to. And as you say, if it's like a 20 minute question, if it's a 20 minute response. You may never get me back because I'm likely never have that 20 minutes. Yeah, right. And so identifying, like, everybody has probably been in that position, everybody has probably been that busy, that prospect could be doing the same thing if like they.

Don'T buy or they say, yeah, man, this sounds really good, let's go ahead and book a follow up in two weeks. And then they don't turn up, man. Like, it's not personal. Like, you know, it's just. There's no need to get angry at it. The fact that anyone buys a 30k program over the phone after a 45 minute phone call is fucking outrageous to begin with. So I think, like, as soon as you realize the pure audacity of the job that you're in, you know, because a lot of us, like, there are a lot of people who listen to that do sell insurance and fair enough, that's a phenomenal thing to buy. But if you're selling coaching and consulting programs, you're selling access to information of which it's up to them to apply, and you're selling it for the price of a car, like a decent car that they could then use to go to a real job. Right. So not that I'm shitting on coaching because I think coaching is worthwhile in a pursuit to, to learn more and get better at things. But it's, it's just a crazy thing that we, that you do. So the more you realize that like my mentality was and still is, treat everyone like you would your mom. You know, if they're ghosting you, hey, is everything okay? Like, have you fallen off the face of the cliff? Send some funny memes. Just do things in like a lighthearted manner and don't get angry about it. Because the moment you get angry about it, they will reply, mm. And they will smash you for it. And that's how you get in trouble.

Talk to me a bit about memes. Cause, like, that's one of the things that I hadn't really experienced until I saw you guys doing it. Yeah. And the success that you've had with.

That, it's a pattern interrupt. So what you're looking, when you're looking to follow up or try and get somebody back in to your fold is you need to give them a reason to reply. So any PQ has some great ways of doing that, like we just discussed, but also like memes, you can, you can say something quite rough, but it's sarcastic and funny. And there's more context with the imagery so like one of the ones that I used to always send if somebody was ghosting me was like, you know that picture of like the skeleton on the park bench and it was like just waiting for your reply. It's funny, right? So it's like, oh, you know, you're not taking it too seriously. And then people go, ah, you got me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry man, just been. And the answer is, sorry man, just been super busy. Can we connect next week? And I go, sweet, what time? Yeah, immediately. And then they go, this time go, sweet mouse. Me too then. Yeah, like that's, that's, that's how you get back to them. So like you're, you're just giving them a light hearted push. And because it's, you know, people especially like under the age of say 50, they accept memes as like a form of communication.

Yeah.

And if you can do them really well, like there's one where it's like a dolphin and it's like, are you ignoring me on porn Porpoise? You know, See, that's what you're looking for.

Yeah, that's a good guy. It's a good guy because like I've got someone chasing me on Instagram at the moment. It's quite interesting to me. Like normally I would have just blocked them or just paid no attention to it whatsoever. It's a coach of some kind. I haven't quite figured that out yet. Yeah, they want money out of me. But like I put up a post and then the, I got a DM on Instagram saying, saying, you know, in reference to the post. So like I was like, oh, you did some, like you actually made it a little bit personal. And like the post I put was just a reel of a dog biting someone and I mentioned the dog's name and they even said like, oh, that dog, dog's name's Lupo. Like that Lupo looks amazing. And then into the like pitch and I was like, oh, you'd personalize a little bit.

The VA did a good job, but.

They followed me up three times, probably like every week. My next job will be to start noticing like if it's on a schedule. Like if it's like at what interval are they following me up? Yeah, but the follow up is the same. It's just like, hey, just wondering if you had time for what we said above. So like each follow up message has just been, I think I've got three. Has been like a one liner status friend though.

Yeah.

Right.

And so like normally I would pay no attention to this, like, 12 months ago, I wouldn't even, like, whatever. I'm not interested in. Like, they say that they're. They're. They're interested in helping coaches of dog trainers. And it's like, there's me and, like, three other people on the planet that call themselves that. Right. I highly doubt that's your niche.

Oh, you know, Gary, too, because, like.

I was one of the first people to coin saying that I'm a coach to dog trainers.

Right.

Because.

Or to dog sport competitors. Because it's a weird thing to be.

Yeah.

And that everybody. And so more people do it now because they're like, oh, that's what they've realized. That's what they are.

Yeah.

But so, like, there's no one who's training them. Like, that's a super weird niche. But I'm super interested in how they follow up. And it's been terrible. But if they hit me with a meme, I will reply.

Yeah.

So if you're out there, if you're watching. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the best at. It is Drew B. Wilson, who works for a guy called Ryan Straight. So he's Ryan Jimin's chief of sales, or head of sales, whatever title is. But he has a course called Sales Memes. No, Closer memes. It's like 100 bucks lifetime access. Greatest course I've ever done.

And there's all the memes that are in there.

Tons of them.

Yeah.

And you can just.

And then it's a face. It's a. Well, it's a Facebook group. It's a portal and a Facebook group.

Right.

And the portal is just different memes. Right. And then the Facebook group is people posting hilarious memes. Like, hilarious sales memes. And so, like, I think he was $97. I think he signed up a few hundred people to it. Like, he made a little bit of cash out of it. Good on him. I coached him in sales.

Yeah.

Yeah. He's a really good guy. But closer memes, if you got there, go buy the closer Memes. Course. It's pretty funny.

But.

Yeah. So that's kind of like. And he sort of really started pushing it, and he's like a master of self legion. So he runs all the sales for Ryan Streuman, and they do their biggest, you know, sales training. They sort of used to be in sales training, but now, because Ryan's humans, like the hardcore closer, but now they're in more like business, entrepreneurship and networking. So they have a program called Apex, which is like a big networking marketing Kind of business coaching thing and they have a ton of people in it, like hundreds of people. Like, it's a big, it's a big thing. Ryan Schumann's got, you know, like five supercars.

Yeah, yeah.

Spent five years in prison. You know what I mean? He's got a cool story. Yeah, right. But yeah, so he was sort of the, the guy that I, that I learned off in terms of that just like some of the nuances of it. So that was really cool. But yeah, so I think, you know, going back to the rejection piece, you just don't take it too seriously.

Yeah, yeah.

So what it like, what have you experienced in the industry of people who are the product? So, like, I think as a salesperson.

It'S like, oh, seen some horrendous. Like the thing is, man, like if nobody owes you.

Yeah.

Like I won't name is. But he's an Australian coach, right? He's an Australian biz op coach. So what he does is he teaches people how to be coaches.

Okay.

And get to their first ten grand a month. So these are people who are nine to five, think they have something to offer anything. Biz op is low ish on the money scale. Right. Um, because like if you're in a really good nine to five, you probably wouldn't. You could just transition to being a coach. Like if you're really good at it. Like if you're a fucking high flying CEO, you can probably just find five coaching clients and have a business, you know, I mean, you wouldn't need to hire someone. So anyone in that space you're looking at, it's a.

Be dubious.

Yeah, it's a harder run. Yeah, but he used to run. This will make it super obvious for everyone who knows, but he used to run. Like it still does, I think like a 10 day free challenge where basically you're guaranteed to get your first coaching client, something like that. And then the deal is you use that money from the free challenge to pay for the course. Pay for the first thing. And there was like a huge Facebook rant about a guy who got a coaching client and then didn't want to sign up. And it was a rant. Like I'm talking named him, shamed him, video giant post. And I saw all these fucking mouth breathers on there going, yeah, fuck that guy. I was like, what do you mean, fuck that guy? I was like, first of all, how dare you? Like, yeah, yeah, how dare you like that? It actually really, really put me off. I was like, oh. Because at the time we were Sort of looking at potentially working with them. And I was like, yeah, like, if that's what you do to people who just don't sign up, fuck me. I couldn't imagine, if you know what I mean? If a business relationship went bad, that would be horrendous. But it's just like, who cares, man? Like, who gives a shit? Like, like they got some value from your service, didn't see enough value to where they wanted to move forward. Oh, well.

Yeah.

Like, do you know how many people say no to us? Like at seventh level we have a 37% close rate, which I think is pretty fucking good. Right. We sign up 300 people a month. You do the fucking math.

Yeah, that's a lot of people.

That's a lot of no's, you know. And would they all benefit? Yes. Should they all do it? I fucking hope so. Yeah, but like, are they all going to say yes there and then? Is it an appropriate time for them in their lives and where they're at? And would they all be good clients? No. So who cares, man? Yeah, like, just do the best you can. There's no point getting shitty about it.

I think, you know, people who say are the product that they're selling, people doing their own sales, especially if they're a coach or something like that is I think that I can certainly appreciate it could be quite painful, that point of rejection when like you have put in everything. Like when you like, this is all I got, man, and I'm offering everything and I'm putting in the work and people are like, no, I'm not doing it. That is in that instance, like you're not. It could be many reasons you're not right for them. They don't have the money. Like, there could be lots of things. But I can totally see how a lot of people then get that, like, you know, it's, you know, it crushes them.

Yeah.

But if you then go to lashing.

Out, it's not getting married.

Yeah, but this is the thing. So this is what, this is what I see. And I see it in every industry. Cause I see, yeah. On Facebook, I've got however many thousand friends I have that work on all different things. Right. But like they all. They like you see it from time to time. People will do the, like, this person has wronged me post. Exactly. Like I say, especially with the screenshot.

It's crazy, man.

Yeah. In the dog space, I've messaged a few people and as soon as you see someone put like a screenshot of an email and like, how dare they ask this ridiculous thing on their personal page about something in their business if they're a friend? I've in every instance, reached out to that person and been like, you might want to take a little break, you know, like, because that. That level of rejection upsetting you to that point.

Yeah.

That you then complain about that person publicly. And you know, when they do the screenshot and it's like, I've covered their name, like, with the highlighter.

Yeah.

Like. Like, if I do this, would you go down to. Would you go to Times Square?

Yeah.

Stand on a soapbox with those printed out and scream. Yeah, because that's what you're doing.

Yeah.

And so, like, I just don't get it. I just, like, I've had my fair share of accounts say no to us. I've had a big accounts quit. At no stage did I ever take it as a personal affront. To me, it's like, that's business. And the thing is, it's business. Like, if you get fired, it's not personal. I know people say it is, but it's not. Like, yes, it affects you personally, but it is not personal.

Yeah.

Like, businesses are run to provide something at a profit, and that's how it rolls. Like, it's so. You know, like, I've had it happen twice where people have, like, screenshotted me or mentioned me in, like, super negative ways and all that kind of stuff. Like, I just don't give a. Yeah. Like, I don't care because they're not talking about me. They're talking about Matt Ryder, and that is not me.

Yeah. Yeah.

Like, they're talking about the perception that they feel. On one instance, it was all people, which I fired, and I went, you know what? I get it.

Yeah.

Right. You want to rant about me because I fired you. Hey, man, if that makes you feel better, that's fine. Because it doesn't make me feel bad. Yeah, I don't care. I have friends, I have family. I don't need more of them. Like, yeah. I treat everyone as good as I possibly can. And most of the time I treat people better than they treat me. So, like, I'm fine with me.

I think on a much more personal level, I think that's a superpower of yours, though. Like, I think that you have a capacity to not give a fuck about that sort of stuff beyond what most people do. Like, I think that, like, I like to think that I'm pretty good at that, but I can't hold a candle to you.

In the. My lack of give a fuck.

Yeah. About, like, that sort of situation. Because, like, for me, I would not let that derail me. I would, but I would still be like, hey, fuck, man, I did my best by you, you know, Like, I still, like, that affects me. Not enough to cause a big issue.

Yeah.

But it still affects me.

But the way you don't, it's from my dad, man. My dad never forget. I was fucking road raging because the guy cut me off and he goes, why are you angry? And I go, guy cut me off. He goes, you think he cut you off? And I was like, what do you mean? He goes, bro, they just cut the car off. You just happen to be in it.

Yeah. Yeah.

And I was like, yeah. And it's like, so that I get.

I'm on board with that. I would never get angry in the car.

I get angry in the car all the time still. But just because I think people have mouth breathers, that thing that makes me angry. Most of the world is window lickers and mouth breathers. Yeah. Just people making you a sandwich. You're like, fuck, bro. Just like, hurry the fuck up, man. Like, it shits me. I really struggle with that. But I can only imagine, like, what Elon Musk must feel on a daily basis.

Yeah.

He must have a superpower. We can let that go because we're all mouth breathing chimps to that guy.

Yeah.

You know, and like, I consider myself intelligent, but not a super intelligent person. But compared to, like, some of those fucking skin farmers walking around, it's like, what are you doing? I don't know how they survive, but, you know, Elon Musk must be like, fucking morons. I just run around like amoebas.

But.

But for me, like, I feel like I do a good job of rationalizing the behavior. And I just think I go like, I get like, when that Bill guy just fucking rancid. I was like, oh, yeah. Like, I can. I get that. You know, Like, I don't agree with it, but I. Like, first of all, probably most of what he said, he doesn't even believe. But it's really good for marketing. So I was like, so there's a marketing aspect. Second of all, me was fired, so. So he felt like he was probably done wrong by. He has an ego, which is fine. Maybe not an enormous ego, but an ego. And I was like, oh, yeah, you put all those things together and that outcome, like. And the catalyst was not his doing. The catalyst was our doing. Right. And it was actually my doing because I approved the post, Right. So I'm like, I started that series of events and I was like, that's the natural outcome. Had I have thought about it, I would have realized that was going to be a natural outcome. But at the end of the day, like, I don't give a fuck because news cycles are quick. You know what I mean? And then that caused a bunch of people. And I read the comments. I was like, that's hilarious.

Yeah.

I remember seeing the desk reading the comments, but that was when I was like, I was looking at you because I was reading them and imagining, you know, I've had people come after me. Right. Like, and a lot of them are the same. I like, look at it through the lens of like, you know, a lot of these people are probably not well, you know, and I, you know, I don't want to throw any fuel on that fire of mental illness. Right. So you be. That's cool.

Yeah.

And I. But it takes some thinking. Like, I have to talk myself into that.

Yeah.

Like, that's not my initial high road or. Yeah. Like, my initial is like. Like this dagger. Don't let me bleed out.

Right.

Like, don't they know my pure intentions.

Yeah. Yeah.

And then I can like, oh, okay. Fuck, yeah. Right? And like, I can get back to it. But I was watching you read those comments, like. Like you're enjoying it as much as they were.

Yeah.

I was like, this is. This is something else.

Marco called me freaking out. I was like, bro, who gives a fuck? And how I got Marco talking off the cliff. Gotta do this. And I was like, would cardone care? And he was like. And I was like, oh, would he hop on a plane and that he owns and fuck a supermodel? It's like living well is the best revenge. The second time was when that Taki Moore guy called me out in his group for a setter that I didn't even know was happening, trying to pinch people out of his group.

Yeah. So explain that properly because you've mentioned it a couple times but never explained.

It on the podcast. So there was actually. I was really grateful that it happened. Sounds stupid, but it actually flagged. A really significant issue was that there were setters in my profile and they just went rogue and they started doing outreach, which was never the plan for my profile. My profile was take inbound, don't do any outbound. But like, the guy who was sort of running the profile who was going to be doing some of the sales, wanted more leads, so they went into groups and just did it. The Wrong way. Like, if you're going to go into a group and try and get people into your profile, then you talk to them about a post and then just ask them questions and you long play it. But they weren't like, oh, hey, I saw you in this and this and this. Are you, you know, and it was super transparent.

Yeah.

So anyway, like, it wasn't me, like, but I'm, you know, I take responsibility.

But it's your profile, someone you employed and. But they weren't doing it with your knowledge. Yeah, knowledge. Not even permission. They were. And they weren't doing it maliciously.

They were just trying to hustle.

Yeah, they were.

Yeah.

Just didn't know the. They just didn't know the rules.

And so, like, Taki messaged me and was like, oh, hey man, this, this and this. I got to kick you out of the group. I was like, oh, yeah, hey, dude. Yeah, I get it. Do you think that was my response? Like, oh, hey, man, sorry, dude was a setter. I actually didn't know what was happening. But hey, dude, do your thing. Whatever you got to do. Yeah, I'm fine by me. Like, I think he's probably surprised at the thing. I was like, just so you know, I've told him to shut it down, but he like, name and shame me in the group.

Right? Yeah.

I was like, okay, everything is content.

Yeah. I was like, okay, you do what you want. I'm sure some people will come to my defense and I'm sure some people will not, you know, and it kind of is the way it is. But that the only thing that I was upset about, like, the only thing that I was upset about was how bad the messages were.

Right.

But it kind of opened up a whole new like, fuck, we need to look into this. Because if those are the guys on my profile, surely they're the good ones. And then I found out they weren't the good ones. They were just sticking the shit ones on my account. And I was like, well, that's fucking stupid. Stupid. And then from there. But, like, you know, some of the messaging through a lot of accounts was just off. And so it gave us a chance to fix a fair few things and increase revenue. But, you know, with news cycles the way they are, and that was the first time I think I can generally, hand on heart, say, like, there was a thing that happened and I had no fucks to give. I was like, oh, no, that doesn't bother me in the slightest because I think like two or three years ago I would have been Bothered by that. Like, it would have taken me a little bit to kind of justify it and then I would have got over it, but instantaneously I was like, I don't care.

Yeah.

And then like, even like at Clickfunnels, like we had some. Like I've had. I've told. When contractors have done the wrong thing by us, I've told them and I've told them very clearly, very professionally, but very clearly that, like, this is a real problem and people don't know how to take that very well. Especially when, like, you're very clear and very honest about, like, the experience that you've had with them and how negative it was and the impacts that that's had moving forward and how, like, I wish to never see, speak, or deal with you ever again.

Okay.

I won't ship mouth people though, because, like, I've been asked about those specific people and I always give the same response. And it's. My experience was less than ideal, but it's only one experience because, like, it's true.

Yeah.

And I hope that people talk about that because we haven't knocked every account ever had out of the park.

Yeah.

We've shit to bet on a few. Like, openly admit that we've killed a bunch, but we've also failed at some. But it's like, that's not a reflection.

Yeah.

You know, so it's just like, I don't know. My experience was less than optimal.

Yeah.

You know, but it was when we were at Clickfunnels, I saw a few of those people.

Yeah. Yeah. I had.

And, and they like, how did that go? Because there, I imagine then they're like, standoffish. Like, there's an issue between you and me and, and you're the opposite. You're like, hey, man. No, that there was an issue.

Yeah.

It's professional, though. Like, it's a professional issue. I don't have a personal issue with you.

Yeah.

You know, like, there's, there's, there's a different thing. Like, if I had a personal issue with you, I would tell you about that and that would be very different. Like, I wouldn't want to speak to you, but I was like, oh, hey, how are you, man? How's everything going? How's life? Sweet, dude. Like, everything's fine with me.

Yeah.

I don't really care. They didn't. I could tell they were very uncomfortable though.

Yeah.

Which, you know, is fun too.

Yeah.

Mark, on the other hand, he takes things more personally.

Yeah. I think that's indicative of people sort.

Of.

Their work and their life and not being able to separate it between that.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like, I think some people are good at that partitioning. Like, I'm a character at work and this is. I'm playing the character of businessman.

Yeah.

And then you come home and you're like. Like, I'm the character of Dan Dad.

Yeah.

You know, whereas I think if you're like always, this is.

I'm.

I'm the hustle. I'm all of this. If you have a business issue, it has to be a personal issue as well. Like if you can't distinguish the two between.

Yeah.

I think that that's what happened to me recently in the States as well. Like, there's.

Yeah.

Other high profile people in the industry that I have publicly not. Not argued with, but sort of. You have like, different ideas on techniques and it's just like on.

It's like, I mean, they're a bad person.

Not at all. And like, it's not even, like. Doesn't even mean I don't think their way is cool. It's just not the way I choose. You know what I mean? And so there's like this expectation that there's gonna be an argument or even just separate sides of the room. And I was like, no way. I was like, I'm getting drunk. Go and get a photo with you. Just put that online just to make sure people see. You know what I mean? Like.

Yeah.

Because I think you're actually a super cool dude. Just do things a little bit different.

Yeah.

That is one of the things that, like, I think I learned from the military of what not to do.

Yeah.

Because in the military, if you're considered bad at your job, you're the worst person on the planet. You need to go.

You're the worst. You have to be bullied.

Everyone hated you.

You have to be bullied until you leave.

Until you leave.

Yeah.

Which I get in that role I get. Right.

It's so bad.

It's so mean.

Yeah.

It's just you have to be bullied out.

It's the way it works.

But some of those guys stick around.

Yeah.

But some of them turn around. I mean, I was like, so, like, with all the original decks, that was the case. Like when we all first got to the unit, it was like, you're all pieces of. And we were pieces of. We've been in the army five minutes. We're in Special Forces. We're like, what the are we doing here? And we're the first crew of people to do that.

Yeah, yeah.

But then, you know, first trip comes around, we turn out to do all right and you get good mentoring. And then it turned like, people turn around and it's like, oh, we're gonna stop bullying you now. Yeah, we're gonna joke with you about how we used to bully you.

I mean, you bullied me.

I know.

I know.

But that's the armor.

That's the armor. There's no choice. First time I ever met you, I was just wearing a jacket with no shirt because we were at a party and that it made sense in context. You just go, hey, this is Guy, this is Boony. He's like, you're not fat, you're just blank. I was like, who's this motherfucker? Like, oh, that's Pat.

But I think the army has that though.

Like if.

If you are bullied and you can play along with it. Like, oh, you're in the crew.

Yeah.

Like, oh, you're fine.

Yeah.

If you don't mind taking it. Yeah, well, that's fine.

Yeah.

I think that's one of the things that I was talking to people recently. I was at a big conference, a lot of army guys there and talking about the military and it's like self deprecating humor. And I think one of the things, like one of the skill sets that I think gets overlooked. Maybe it's just that sort of our old unit, I don't know that it exists across the rest of the defense.

Or Australia has that as well. So it's probably.

Yeah.

Probably exaggerated. But like bad news doesn't get any better with time. And so when you make a mistake, you. It's better that you tell everyone as fast as you can.

Yeah.

Get ahead of it. You control the narrative. Then. Yeah, you can be like, you can turn that story about how you nearly like with. Do you ever hear about when I nearly ran over everyone at the demo when they built their sftf, Right. So brand new. What was it worth at the time? Like $180 million training facility.

Right.

And we had to set up the demo because the old tag demo was at the old things. It was very boring. And when the SFTF was first opened, because mostly what the tag does is demos for politicians who want to know why we spend $180 million on this facility. So we have to show it to them. So we're designing. So we're designing the tag demo.

Right.

And with the assault demo, where the two cars come in into the range, I was the driver of the car on the right Side and we're like laying out the targets and deciding where it's going to go. And I said to, he's still on Wednesday's name. To the platoon commander, I was like, I reckon I can shoot a pistol out the window as I'm doing the power slide in. And he's like, all right. Even though normally the windows would be up, but like, sure, why not? Like that seems cool. See how you go? So we set up this thing and it was never going to be a part of the demo. It was just we were having fun. And so I did it right. So I come in, massive power slide, and I'm pistol out the window and pull off a one handed shot and hit the balloon. As I'm like power sliding, the guys get off. I put the holster in. I'm getting out of the car thinking like, I'm actually thinking to myself, you're a hero. I'm the best. There's no one better than me.

Brett, eat your heart out.

I'm the best. Nobody is better at this than me. I'm the goddamn best person at being in the tag that has ever lived. And I'm legitimately thinking about that as I watch my car overtake me. Because I'd like done the bow slide with my like actual break it holstered. And in my head like, job complete, get out and follow the assaulters who are already ahead because they jump off the car as it's sliding, right? So as I'm sort of like regaining my gun, I'm coming forward, I watch my car overtake me and I hadn't put it in park and it is headed. And so like all of snipers are on the side and they're watching this demo as my car is headed towards them, right? So I'm like. And I turn around with the door shut. So I go running over, dive in through the window, land on the horn so everybody looks as I'm like pulling there. And like, I nearly ran him over. Nearly. And so, yeah, colossal up.

Yeah.

So I'm like, I need to tell everyone this. Like, so at the mess, I'm like, everyone gather around. I did something stupid.

Yeah.

And I had the opportunity. I realized I can tell this is a funny story. The same way I just told it there. I can tell this is a funny story. If someone else tells this, it's going to be about the time Pat up massively and nearly killed the whole sniper platoon by doing something stupid. Or I can tell the time you shot that balloon. Yeah, the time that I shot that balloon. Made a little mistake that maybe nearly killed everybody. So I feel like that's one of the things. Like, that's a. And I've never really seen much of that anywhere else where people are like, I can get ahead of this.

I dropped a nod. Yeah. On Talisman Saber when I was in three rer. Right. And I remember. I remember, like, I was quite, like, paranoid about doing it. So I remember, like, it couldn't have been more than three or four minutes, right. And I remember stopped and I went to my seco at the time. I was like, dude, I dropped a nod. He's like, ah, fuck. And I was like, I think we just gotta call it now. He's like, no, no, we'll get to the next. I was like, no, no, no, dude, trust me. We gotta call it now. And he's like, no. I was like, I dropped a nod. I was like, I just yelled it out. I dropped a nod. And the boss was like, fuck. And it was like, emu. Bob back literally a minute and we found it.

Yeah.

I was like, man, if we ran another 30 minutes, that would have been like, X over.

Yeah.

Like, huge disaster.

Yeah.

Huge disaster that's happened. One of the water. He's dropped one out of the. Out of Blackhawk over the dam.

Yeah.

Just fell straight up. And he's just like, we never found it.

No.

Of course it doesn't matter now. Afghanistan, they have all. Taliban has better nods than we ever did.

Yeah.

Yeah, they got the good stuff. So, yeah, I think getting out ahead of it is good. But anyway, that's rejection. That's rejection. If you want to be rejected less, there's a link down below to a program called the closing code. 50 bucks a week. And we teach you all things sales, how to, like, plan out your day and kind of how to optimize yourself to be able to be more productive in a sales environment.

Yeah.

I guess that is kind of where the point of this was going is if you struggle with rejection, just get really good.

Yeah.

It's like, I just don't.

Just don't be shit.

Yeah. I just don't get no's.

Yeah.

If you close, everyone is not an issue. You can work less too.

Yeah. Yeah.

You can just make like three calls a day, close them all, make a ton of money and go home.

Yeah. Done deal. All right.

Hey, that's it. Another episode of Coffee's closed. If you like this stuff, like, rate share, do all of that. Give us some comments. Let us know what you want to see more of. See if we should do it at this house more often or whether we should use the studio. Let us know what you like, let us know what you don't, and we'll still do whatever we want to do anyway.

Put that coffee down.

Don't.

Comfortable place to do it.

Yeah. Booze.

You better leave in that simultaneous get up. That was amazing.